ptiemann

I mentioned it elsewhere, I bought a junker car last weekend for trips to bad parts of town where I used to worry when parking my 8. For your entertainment, I'll attach a pic.

Then I made this Excel sheet, comparing the cost of a car based on purchase price, estimated $ for scheduled services and maintenance. I did not calculate in insurance and traffic ticket related costs.

I compared my Firebird which got 26 mpg, put the RX-8 at 20 mpg and the junker to get 30 mpg. Well, let's ignore the junker now.

The Firebird lived 96000 miles, after subtracting the trade-in value, I found that each mile of driving cost me 29 cents.

Assuming that the RX-8 will give me 100,000 miles, I came to a cost of 42 cents per mile.
Then I changed the mpg in my Excel sheet from 20 mpg to 16 and the price per mile went from 42 to 44.
If I would achieve 25 mpg, the price per mile would be 40 cents.


Moral of story:

While the cost of gas is felt every other day at the gas station when I need to pay, it is minor in comparison to other factors esp the initial purchase price.


Well, there is of course the environmental aspect. But I heard that while the 8 is very thirsty, it is also very clean in terms of how many pounds of dirt (what???) it blows out per thousand miles.


So.. trying to save money by driving "fuel efficient" is not too smart. One rather buys a pre-owned car then.

See my junker. My 8 is in the shop, when I get it back, I'll take a pic of the two together.

ByeByeSaturn

You make a good point, but cost is not the only downside - the others include:

1) The inconvenience of having to fill up the tank all of the time
2) The uncomfortable feeling coming from the thought that if it's happening to you, maybe there is something wrong with your drivetrain.
3) The uncomfortable feeling coming from a lack of confidence in the customer service of Mazda given that they have pretended this isn't a problem even though no other car that we know of has so many examples of way undershooting the stated MPG

All in all though, it wasn't enough to deter me from purchasing it.

Jeff_pap31s

I said it before and I'll say it again. I did not buy this car for gas mileage. Anyone who ever thought they would get good gas mileage is not very bright.:p Great post! You put alot of thought into this! I know I wouldn't!

Elara

Nice Festiva! Yes, they're junkers now, but also impossible to kill.
And great post- if you buy a sports car, you don't buy it for mileage. In the end the cost isn't going to be much different either way.

ptiemann

Yeah, you're right on that, esp on (1). I commute 100 miles roundtrip to work (Capitola - Menlo Park; you may know these places), so I fill up 3 times a week.

Edit:
Of course I will keep using the 8 for my commute. Taking that Festiva over the highway 17 - the term DEATH TRAP pops up.


-Peter

DemonRX-8

What factors did you count in for trade-in on the 8 with 100k miles? Did you include maintenance costs? You raise a valid point, but I'm just curious how you came up with the numbers. FD's in good shape still go for $10k+ and I'd better the 8's will be similar in the long run. All said and done, I'd still rather drive the 8 around over any other car!

Btw, I'm a firm believer in keeping a beater around for routine trips. That's why I bought an old Honda Accord a few months back. After I'm staisfied with the break-in of the 8, I'll be driving the Accord around more for daily trips.

ptiemann

@DemonRX-8

I put in 400, 600, 400 for some major services and oil changes @ $25 every 5000 miles. I think I put in a trade-in value of $10,000 after the 100,000 miles and assumed that the gas price always is and will be $1.89

-Peter

red_rx8_red_int

edmunds.com now has true cost of ownership or true cost to own, and the 8 is rated good in comparision to others.

Ophitoxaemia

also, compare the insurance cost versus, say, a 350Z. it was $3000 vs $1500 for me. over ten years that buys a LOT of gas.

james

cebat

why is your rx 8 in the shop?
just curious.

meeh

Good idea about the junker. How much can the old used ford festiva, be had now a days.

ptiemann

last time, when the dealer's service department tried to do the tire rotation @ 10,000 miles, their power torque tool broke one wheel's bolt (just one of 5, it was the one which needs the key) and on another wheel their tool slipped off and they kind of trashed the rim.

And I get the new oil pan. All together, they cannot do it in one day, understandable.

I wrote more about it here, under

"sounding off on the dealership"
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...threadid=20809

ptiemann

yeah, a lucky find on the junk yard :-)

It had an amazing 204,061 miles on the odo when I got it, it's one great joke, but it actually drives fine. It needed one new gasket and one wheel bearing.

The second fill-up, it had consumed 5.9 Gallons for 28 miles. Yeah. Major gas leak? Nope, just a special "break-in" period.

28/ 5.9 = 4.7 mpg

second fill up: 12 mpg

3rd fillup: 23 mpg

and today 36.4 mpg <--- city driving!


Make a guess how much I paid..

Elara

Since mine was worth $500 2 1/2 years ago, I can only guess at what yours is worth now- probably $250?

desmo996

I ride my Ducati every other day, using that rationale:

RX8=15m/g Ducati 996=45m/g

Total gas consumption=30mpg

ptiemann

I paid $450 and it turned out later, that that was exactly what KBB said for my zip code.

In a ZIP code 40 miles from here (FREMONT), KBB suggests $525 (and that's actually a cheap area). <shrug>


The really cool thing was that insuring my second car and adding a driver (my girlfriend), actually LOWERED my insurance.

$1850 for one year RX-8, I'm the only driver

$1780 for one year RX-8 + Festiva + second driver

I got my check over $70 refund from AAA yesterday.

rjenk

I'm sorry but I still take issue with this. No, I did not buy my 8 for gas mileage but I do expect to get what I pay for. I purchased a vehicle that is estimated to get x number of miles per gallon. Now that I am not getting close to that or even in the range in the little print below the number, I am upset. Even more so that there are many others with similar experiences and Mazda has chosen to keep silent on the issue.

I see this in simple terms, the vehicle is not performing as it was promoted (keep in mind that Mazda also has touted that the RENESIS engine offers better mileage than prior models).

Now before the EPA card is played, I realize that the mileage ratings are based on EPA testing but ultimately Mazda is still responsible for the vehicles it sells.

Just my 2 pennies...oops...sorry gotta keep them for the next fill up!

bon911

It would not matter if you get 18-24, but it does if you get 16- 20 or something like that. I am sure people buying the car were ready to bear with 18-24 and expect that number. Maybe some people didn't care at all about the number. but don't tell me it doesn't matter just cause you like the car. I like the car a lot and I didn't buy it for the mileage, but it does matter when you are not getting you are supposed to and that is totally regardless of gas price.

Tamas

iTrader: (1)

OK, I really don't want to beat a dead horse, but let me use your own logic to show that fuel mileage DOES matter.

Well, this means that if instead of 20 mpg you only get 16, that will cost you $2000 during the life of your car. Does that not matter???
Also, in case the RX-8 would deliver the EPA numbers (or very close to that) by getting 25 mpg on the freeway (EPA was 24), then you'd be $4000 better off than with 16 mpg. Many people get 16 mpg - certainly a lot more than those (any?) who'd get 24 mpg.

$2000 is a pretty good amount in my book. $4000 is even more significant. So, essentially, I can see this in a way that Mazda owes me at least $2000 :p
(again, taking into account what was advertised and what we got)

And this was claimed by who? Was it Mazda? Hmmm... didn't they also claim at some point in time that the RX-8 would get 30 mpg?
See, I think if Mazda would have said that the Renesis gets 18 mpg, then the likelihood of it getting the 'Engine of the year' award would have been much less. So much about believing in Mazda's claims.
Unless I see independent test data showing that the Renesis is indeed that much cleaner than other engines (and that it does sustain this cleanliness for at least 50K miles), I'll take this claim with a BIG grain of salt.

Moral of the story (at least for me): it doesn't matter how we look at it, fuel mileage IS important. Also, it's rather pathetic how we are trying to come up here on the board with reasons why should we not care.

Now before I button up the flame suit, don't get me wrong: I love the RX-8 and I bought it with knowing about the questionable fuel mileage. Still, I don't think we should cheat ourselves and try to explain why should we ignore the mileage issue. It's bad to give Mazda the feeling that we don't care... because I'm sure the majority does.

GeorgeH

iTrader: (2)

FDs were significantly more expensive new than the RX-8 is, IIRC. I'm sure that has something to do with it's residule value. Also, FDs have proven to be a great tuner car platform, which, when coupled with their relative rarity, keeps prices high. I suspect that the RX-8 will always take a back seat to the rally derivatives, and even the 350Z, in terms of being a highly desireable platform car for tuners in the years to come. Of course this is just speculation on my part - we shall see.

George

ptiemann

Tamas:

The 18/24 number was measured by EPA, I thought they were independent.

The statistic about the lbs/1000 miles output of some dirt was also published on www.epa.gov - I don't have the link at hand.

I agree that the total cost of gas may amount to several $1000 but even $2000 are minor compared to the $33000 that you pay for the car. Some people even finance vehicles, thus pay another $3000 to the bank.

You're right though.. it's the same kind of "truth" as with the 238hp that most people estimate to be ~215.

Peter

poison123

Well if people don't think 2k is much in the scheme of things, feel free to pm me for my info so you can cut me a check for that much.

GeorgeH

iTrader: (2)

If you can magically increase the fuel efficeincy of my '8 by 4 mpg (without requiring me to change my driving habits ) then I'll gladly send you the check. But then, I'd rather send a check to Maurice, who can magically increase both the power and the mileage of my car. :D

Trx8

RX-8 Emissions threads:

RX-8 Forum > General Topics > RX-8 Discussion > Rx-8 emissions
https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-discussion-3/rx-8-emissions-1341/

RX-8 Forum > General Topics > RX-8 Discussion > Does the RX-8 have low emmissions
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...threadid=17887

This is the EPA web site that compares vehicles.
http://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/all-rank-04.htm

The RX-8 has an "Emissions / Air Pollution" score of 8. On this scale, the bigger the number, the lower the Emissions and Air Pollution. Look through the list, there are many cars with lower scores than the RX-8 -- including the 350Z and S2000, they get a score of 6.

The two threads above (found by searching for "smog") and the EPA site discusses these and related topics in more detail.