mysql

This isn't directed at anyone in particular, but I thought it might be interesting to talk about. For the casual RX-8 club reader, they might not know about or understand some of the underlying political motivations that go on here, as it's an unwritten and unspoken thing. I was reflecting on general comments people make, either pro or con towards vendors that sell Rx-8 upgrades. What's interesting is that there are many issues for various products that no one speaks about. The issues can range from something as severe as causing damage to a vehicle, or mundane as just random drivability problems. Even if an issue is known, I've watched people suffer with them for many months, waiting for a vendor to fix it. I think they fear speaking out or even mentioning problems as that will cause the vendor to not favor them or offer a fix for the problem. I watch similar things happen in FS threads. Again, this isn't directed at any one person, but I know talking to a bunch of people that stuff being sold have explanations for why the product is being sold that does not match the reality of the situation. e.g; "I'm selling because I need cash" or "I'm selling because I am going in a different direction" I can't fault them because if they give the real explanation, offloading the item can be pretty difficult. You can't come out and say "the product sucks ***, messed up my car and you should pay me hundreds to have it happen to your car too" Anyway, underneath this we have a similar vein with the fanboy clubs. They'll rave about something even though I've personally chatted with them and they expressed doubt over workmanship or ability to deliver. I don't want to get into any specifics, but it seems to me that despite the amount of information to be had on this forum, there are only a few people who tell it like it is without worry of offending. The rest kiss *** and rally behind something they don't seem to believe in. I guess in a way it reminds me of religion, but we shouldn't get into that aspect of it. So in the end, what we have here is a lot of promotional material that may not always reflect the true standing of things even though at first glance, it would seem difficult to hide the truth. If I were a casual club member I don't think I'd even notice.

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icey?

well said

but if a product sucks it should be TOLD to the public that its not worth the money...

but if someone is trying to sell something that they have personaly messed up and just going with "i need the cash your loss my gain" type thing... then thats just wrong...

mysql

Another factor might be pride. Pride in ones car. In their choice in upgrade path. Saying it's the wrong way or wrong path means you made a poor choice. It also hurts your resale value on the item. Burning bridges with a vendor is also ill advised when our community is so small.

Mazurfer

Hmmmmmmmm.....interesting "J".

Can't help but think what lead to this thread?????

Anyway, guess that is going to exist anywhere....at least to some extent.
Remember it is the Internets.....and you have to take a lot of what is said with a grain of salt and try to weed through all the B.S. that seems to go on from time to time.

I for one will try to only tout products that I have personally used and believe in(meaning I have tried others), although I might comment on others that I may know about just from all the reading I've done. But in that case, I always make sure to point out that the info provided is just what I've heard or read.

Bashing someone's product because of your own lack of research or ineptitude is just flat out wrong, but unfortunately some just don't care. I guess the bottom line is........we are a small community, but there is a very wide range of personalities. The best you can hope for is that the bad eggs....whether vendors or people eventually get weeded out over time, or at least exposed for what they are.

Kane

This reminds me - I have like 3 BOV's, 2-3 Air Intakes, 20-30 Feet if silicone tubing, A turbo or 3, 30 or so silicone couplers for sale..... they all work exaclty the same; I just.... uh..... didn't like the color..... my loss is your gain.

mysql

another problem is people touting stuff they have used over alternatives even though they haven't tried out the competition. It just increases the noise to signal ratio.

I'm sure most of us has been guilty of this.

Also our old posts work against us. I have old posts recommending rp maxgear. I no longer recommend it, yet to anyone who searches - I will in fact be saying it's a good idea.

RotaryFiend

I can't possibly think what might have sparked this thread

mysql

lol. That made me laugh.

I don't think most sales have this kind of issue, but I've seen enough to know it's not limited either.

I myself have now gone through around 4 BOVs and just as many exhausts. Not that any were bad, I just got bored with stuff and there is no BOV-rental shops around me

Kane

riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight!

neXib

I think you hit a nail on the head. But if you recall a while ago I was asking for more "reviews" and opinions on products, I think you also commented in that, but I'm not sure.

Anyway, my point at that was that if the only reviews are from a person that buys one exhaust, one intake, one turbo kit and one styling kit, he's less likely to mean it's worse than anything else because he spent a lot of money on it. If however one is in a position where one can try a lot of different stuff, you'd be free to mean what you want, and it would be up to the vendors to just make better products.

I know from the Miata community that shops like FM have been pretty open about what works or not. In here I get a different vibe in the community, but there's a lot of dedicated shops here too, have already had a positive deal with some myself. With a community as big as this it would have been nice if there were some kind of more anonymous rating for products, or even an independent reviewer of them, to create buzz.

I guess I'd like something a forum can't provide

mysql

Exactly.

Ownership and membership here means the car is part of your persona. If I invest $8,000 in a direction, talking badly about problems brings it down in the public arena here and thus my car might not be as good as your car in the general consensus.

So people are reluctant to do it. They also become extremely hostile and take any negative comments personally.


I've also found that public opinion on topics can be shaped rather easily if you speak vocally about something repeatedly in a few threads. People parrot what they read and it ends up being amplified by others.


Anyway, some of you are guessing at what sparked this thread - my own issues these last few months has been down played. I've tried not to say too much as I wanted to work it out with the other party. That hasn't worked, so I'm going to be suing them shortly. Unlike this thread, I plan on posting all the documents of the case (they are public record afterall) for the forum to see and make their own judgments. However that situation really isn't the cause of this thread. It just happens to be more of the same, just one more brick in the wall.

Mazurfer

Hmmmmmmmmmmm................as you said "Let them make their own judgments". Try not to throw personal **** in it and it will go a long way with at least one person. Not that you really care about that.

Facts are facts, and hearsay is hearsay.


Dave

mysql

hearsay isn't admissible in court anyway.


What's interesting is in a forum full of car talk, that opinions and non factual stuff shape our views as much as the real stuff. It's like saying gravity gets a 3 1/2 star rating because I don't like it's color and it smells funny. Nevermind that it's keeping us from floating into space.

tajabaho1

lololololololololololololololollolol

so true, but it's taboo to talk about it, all I have are stock stuff to sell..............

ShellDude

So why not do all of us "casual users" and newbs a favor and make a post listing all the products that truly suck and why we shouldn't waste our time and money on them?

The more specific the better.

Kane

Because it is all subjective.

I had a guy from FL call me about installing the Type-R BOV from Greddy; he was having drama; and I told him that I took mine off in favor of the Syncronic and wasn't running it anymore.

He said the Syncronic was a POS and he had a bad expierience with it; and I had a bad expierience with the Greddy Type R.... so who wins?

mysql

That's for a different thread. All I'm saying is that there are issues and many people sit idle without talking about it beyond PM's because for whatever reason, they don't want to speak up about it.

It might be due to not wanting to offend the vendor, it might be to avoid the backlash from the other buyers/fanboys, it could be because they think they installed it incorrectly.

Any for anything one person thinks is junk, someone else might want it.

robrecht

People gotta be real and give their honest opinion. I'm glad mysql is planning on posting documents and stuff. It's the only ******* way. I've wasted money on a couple of mods on cars over the years and learned from my mistakes and try to say it plainly. Anything less is just bullshit. If someone's afraid that a vendor won't come through because they tell the truth, and that actually happens, that's probably even more important to know. On the other hand, some dissatisfied customers will bitch and complain with no real basis. If people just tell the ******* truth, it's usually pretty clear what's going on.

Detrich

good observation sql. maybe the best thing to do is to just for everyone be honest without passing judgement. vendors **** up all the time. and, it's give and take. a good vendor can make a mistake sometimes. but, if they compensate, then it's forgiveable. but, if it's a pattern of behavior, i think everyone has the right to know.

if something broke or was faulty, then just state that facts of what happened without bashing or making other claims. smart ppl will be able to connect the dots or ask the right ?s.

DeViLbOi

I think the only way to truely fix it is to do something like neXib and Shelldude were saying. The forum wouldn't be the place for it but I am thinking of like a polling/opinion website where you can get lets say 10 reviews on the same product. People can post their positive or negative review...give an average and let people make their own choices. If someone attempts to bash a product so be it, they are entitled to their opinion. At least the information would be out there.

mysql

what about people who intentionally spread misinformation? My stuff is better than yours. Or vendors against their competition? Many kits out there available for the rx-8 only have a dozen or two owners, so it wouldn't take much to render valid opinions useless.

DeViLbOi

well...two things on that...

1) That is what moderators are for...to verify a review has substance
2) I would hope that the community could overcome a vendor or two mucking with the numbers.

mysql

heh.

I know you're saying something apart from the current forum, but let's look at this forum's system. Each vendor pays something like $5,000, maybe more, maybe less per year. The owners of the board are not going to be in a rush to kick anyone out. Has anyone ever been kicked out? One vendor here has a constant stream of complaints and I haven't seen any recourse or rectification taking place. They do stuff like provide fake UPS shipping numbers that never track. Not once, but repeatedly over the years.

DeViLbOi

Personally I don't believe that the forum is the most conducive way of getting it done. As you can tell by the Good/Bad Guy stuff...it isn't the best way of doing things. I was thinking of something like a product level review of something and then allow users to comment on the review if needed. Multiple product reviews grouped together and categorized so they are easy to find. Then you could even offer the author the ability to post updates to the review as needed. That way you could change your mind, or post a 3 month...6 month...1 year review.

How a vendor can continue to survive here after doing such things is beyond me. Our admins should be policing these sorts of things. And if a vendor does have to pay to comment here...maybe a refund is in order for some of them as this site can't cost that much to run.

mysql

I don't want to bitch about the forum either. That too can be another thread (Though I think it would be locked quickly, and so might this thread now that it's been mentioned)