My Test Drive of the RX8
08-16-2003, 08:55 PM
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My Test Drive of the RX8
I have been following the RX8 for about 2 years. In the summer of 2001, the news about the RX8 caused me to put off my purchase of the Acura RSX Type S. As the time passed and more information became available my enthusiasm decreased and my skepticism increased about this "practical sports car like no other". In a year with so many great sports/sporty cars being released my attention was spread in many directions.
As many of you may know, a few months back I "Jumped Ship" and ruled out the RX8. Last month, I ended up buying the EVO (with the S2000 a very close runner-up). So far, I have been thrilled with it, but I'll save that for another thread.
Yesterday, a local mazda dealer called me to see if I wanted to take a test-drive of the RX8 (they just got a bunch in from the second shipment into the port here in New Jersey). I had placed an internet inquiry on Edmunds a few months back so they must have had my number somewhere (and not a lot of buyers lined up for these cars).
I showed up about a half hour before sunset and a titanium, a couple of silvers and a black were right outside the entrance to the showroom. The Sunlight Silver looks great from the front and matches very well with the black tires and interior materials. I still have lukewarm feelings towards the profile as the indentation from the suicide doors is clearly evident and really interferes with the lines of the car. The extended wheelbase and roofline still look odd in person to me. The back was ok, but a little stubby with the short rear end. The black looked really good as the indentation is much less noticeable as is to a lesser extent the extended wheelbase and roofline (I think the black blends in a bit with the black tires).
I sat in the car for a few minutes while the salesman photocopied my drivers license. The car was a Sunlight Silver Touring model and the first thing I noticed were the seats. The cloth seats are excellent as they really reach an excellent balance between grippiness and comfort. I still prefer the Recaros in the EVO, but these are still some of the best seats I found in this class. The gauges are nice, but I've seen better (i.e. RSX Type S). Overall, I would say the interior is nice, but I don't see it as being as luxourious as some have suggested (Maybe the Grand Touring model would be different).
I don't think the visibility out of the rear window is quite as bad as some have said (though there are blindspots that require the use of the sideview mirrors). As for the backseats, the room back there is not huge and I'd even say its not much more than the typical 2X2 sporty coupes. I know they have some decent legroom numbers (perhaps by putting their feet under the front seats), but I just don't see it. I guess the headroom is good, but I didn't pay attention to it. I actually see the lack of room as a benefit as I think it makes the car seem more sporty.
Anyhow, the interior features and specifications didn't interest me much, it was the driving that did. Starting up the car, I could hear the rotary engine ok (a little quiet, but not inaudible as some have suggested). Going into first gear, throttle response was immediate and excellent. The gear shift is very good, but I thought it would be a bit better. The throws are certainly pretty short, but there is just a hint of of rubberiness and slopiness to it. The S2000 and RSX-S had better gearboxes in my humble opinion. I would say it is about the same as my EVO (but with different pluses and minuses). The RX8's is shorter and quicker shifting, but I like the riflle-bolt like precsion of the EVO's. I'm also not a huge fan of stubby gear shift *** of the RX8.
Pulling out onto the highway, it was apparent to me that the missing power issue is legitimate. I shifted to about 7,300 RPM and did not notice any power increase around 6,250 RPM. I'm well aware of the linear torque curve in this car, but the car lacked power at all rev ranges I drove through. In one word, I can describe it: Uninspiring. Now some may say, "well you just aren't used to a high reving powerplant." The fact is that this is my favorite type of engine, and I have driven many of these cars. In comparison, the S2000 was MUCH faster at all rev ranges. The Integra Type R and Celica GTS were also faster at higher revs. The best comparison is the RSX-Type S, which has a very similar torque curve on paper (albeit with less peak torque). The RSX Type S felt as fast through the lower revs and slightly faster at higher revs. These impressions are consistent with some of the drag-strip times we've seen, the Best Motoring video and dyno results.
The other things of note during acceleration was the gearing and the engine sound. With the radio off, I could hear the rotary pretty well (I drive a Ford Escort with a very low redline and no tachometer with the radio blasting so I've learned to listen closely to the engine!) and I liked the sound, but wish it was louder (perhaps removing that engine cover could help?). The gearing is WAY too tall as it seems like forever in each gear. The revs didn't go up as different (i.e. more smoothly and easily) than a piston engine as I had orginally expected.
The handling was not quite what I expected either. The ride quality was about the same as an RSX-S and Celica GTS (a good thing making it feel pretty sporty). The car felt balanced in that I could sense most of the weight being located between the four wheels, but I could feel it shift from side to side on sharp turns (i.e. body roll). The steering was nearly the worst I have experienced on my test-drives of sports/sporty cars. The steering lacked feedback and felt too numb. In additon, the steering was way too slow (due to the high steering ratio and long wheelbase?) and I was not confident taking sharp highway entrance and exit ramps. I did not test the brakes as I didn't feel it was neccessary since they have consistently been rated as excellent. It was a relatively short test-drive of 10 minutes, so I may take another one to confirm my impressions.
I did notice the Protege, Mazdaspeed Protege, Mazda 6 and Miata and was very impressed by the line-up of sporty cars cars Mazda has. In fact, I may go back to test-drive the Mazdaspeed Protege this week (very impressed by the features in this car at a $21K price).
My overall impression of the RX8 is that its not that good of a sports car. Perhaps it is more fun than an entry-level luxury sports sedan (haven't test-driven), but the power issue is serious and really brings this car down. Frankly, I don't see why an unbiased person would choose the RX8 over cars such as the RSX Type S, Celica GTS and even the Mazdaspeed Protege in the same lot? These cars are as fast (if not faster) in a straight-line than the current underachieving RX8. IMHO, they handle better and are more nimble. In the case of the RSX Type S, the interior is at least if not better than the RX8's. Furthermore, they get almost double the gas mileage and are likely to be more reliable (in the case of Toyota and Honda as their powerplants have been proven already). Finally, they are about $8K-$10K cheaper and probobly will depreciate less. Certainly, I can see a rotorhead and a person enamored by the looks of the car choosing it, but I think that's going to be a small niche.
I think if Mazda can get the horsepower issue worked out, then I think it could be more competitive (americans love power!!!). The handling and driving dynamics issues will hopefully be resolved by a Mazdaspped version and/or a 4th generation RX7.
As many of you may know, a few months back I "Jumped Ship" and ruled out the RX8. Last month, I ended up buying the EVO (with the S2000 a very close runner-up). So far, I have been thrilled with it, but I'll save that for another thread.
Yesterday, a local mazda dealer called me to see if I wanted to take a test-drive of the RX8 (they just got a bunch in from the second shipment into the port here in New Jersey). I had placed an internet inquiry on Edmunds a few months back so they must have had my number somewhere (and not a lot of buyers lined up for these cars).
I showed up about a half hour before sunset and a titanium, a couple of silvers and a black were right outside the entrance to the showroom. The Sunlight Silver looks great from the front and matches very well with the black tires and interior materials. I still have lukewarm feelings towards the profile as the indentation from the suicide doors is clearly evident and really interferes with the lines of the car. The extended wheelbase and roofline still look odd in person to me. The back was ok, but a little stubby with the short rear end. The black looked really good as the indentation is much less noticeable as is to a lesser extent the extended wheelbase and roofline (I think the black blends in a bit with the black tires).
I sat in the car for a few minutes while the salesman photocopied my drivers license. The car was a Sunlight Silver Touring model and the first thing I noticed were the seats. The cloth seats are excellent as they really reach an excellent balance between grippiness and comfort. I still prefer the Recaros in the EVO, but these are still some of the best seats I found in this class. The gauges are nice, but I've seen better (i.e. RSX Type S). Overall, I would say the interior is nice, but I don't see it as being as luxourious as some have suggested (Maybe the Grand Touring model would be different).
I don't think the visibility out of the rear window is quite as bad as some have said (though there are blindspots that require the use of the sideview mirrors). As for the backseats, the room back there is not huge and I'd even say its not much more than the typical 2X2 sporty coupes. I know they have some decent legroom numbers (perhaps by putting their feet under the front seats), but I just don't see it. I guess the headroom is good, but I didn't pay attention to it. I actually see the lack of room as a benefit as I think it makes the car seem more sporty.Anyhow, the interior features and specifications didn't interest me much, it was the driving that did. Starting up the car, I could hear the rotary engine ok (a little quiet, but not inaudible as some have suggested). Going into first gear, throttle response was immediate and excellent. The gear shift is very good, but I thought it would be a bit better. The throws are certainly pretty short, but there is just a hint of of rubberiness and slopiness to it. The S2000 and RSX-S had better gearboxes in my humble opinion. I would say it is about the same as my EVO (but with different pluses and minuses). The RX8's is shorter and quicker shifting, but I like the riflle-bolt like precsion of the EVO's. I'm also not a huge fan of stubby gear shift *** of the RX8.
Pulling out onto the highway, it was apparent to me that the missing power issue is legitimate. I shifted to about 7,300 RPM and did not notice any power increase around 6,250 RPM. I'm well aware of the linear torque curve in this car, but the car lacked power at all rev ranges I drove through. In one word, I can describe it: Uninspiring. Now some may say, "well you just aren't used to a high reving powerplant." The fact is that this is my favorite type of engine, and I have driven many of these cars. In comparison, the S2000 was MUCH faster at all rev ranges. The Integra Type R and Celica GTS were also faster at higher revs. The best comparison is the RSX-Type S, which has a very similar torque curve on paper (albeit with less peak torque). The RSX Type S felt as fast through the lower revs and slightly faster at higher revs. These impressions are consistent with some of the drag-strip times we've seen, the Best Motoring video and dyno results.
The other things of note during acceleration was the gearing and the engine sound. With the radio off, I could hear the rotary pretty well (I drive a Ford Escort with a very low redline and no tachometer with the radio blasting so I've learned to listen closely to the engine!) and I liked the sound, but wish it was louder (perhaps removing that engine cover could help?). The gearing is WAY too tall as it seems like forever in each gear. The revs didn't go up as different (i.e. more smoothly and easily) than a piston engine as I had orginally expected.
The handling was not quite what I expected either. The ride quality was about the same as an RSX-S and Celica GTS (a good thing making it feel pretty sporty). The car felt balanced in that I could sense most of the weight being located between the four wheels, but I could feel it shift from side to side on sharp turns (i.e. body roll). The steering was nearly the worst I have experienced on my test-drives of sports/sporty cars. The steering lacked feedback and felt too numb. In additon, the steering was way too slow (due to the high steering ratio and long wheelbase?) and I was not confident taking sharp highway entrance and exit ramps. I did not test the brakes as I didn't feel it was neccessary since they have consistently been rated as excellent. It was a relatively short test-drive of 10 minutes, so I may take another one to confirm my impressions.
I did notice the Protege, Mazdaspeed Protege, Mazda 6 and Miata and was very impressed by the line-up of sporty cars cars Mazda has. In fact, I may go back to test-drive the Mazdaspeed Protege this week (very impressed by the features in this car at a $21K price).
My overall impression of the RX8 is that its not that good of a sports car. Perhaps it is more fun than an entry-level luxury sports sedan (haven't test-driven), but the power issue is serious and really brings this car down. Frankly, I don't see why an unbiased person would choose the RX8 over cars such as the RSX Type S, Celica GTS and even the Mazdaspeed Protege in the same lot? These cars are as fast (if not faster) in a straight-line than the current underachieving RX8. IMHO, they handle better and are more nimble. In the case of the RSX Type S, the interior is at least if not better than the RX8's. Furthermore, they get almost double the gas mileage and are likely to be more reliable (in the case of Toyota and Honda as their powerplants have been proven already). Finally, they are about $8K-$10K cheaper and probobly will depreciate less. Certainly, I can see a rotorhead and a person enamored by the looks of the car choosing it, but I think that's going to be a small niche.
I think if Mazda can get the horsepower issue worked out, then I think it could be more competitive (americans love power!!!). The handling and driving dynamics issues will hopefully be resolved by a Mazdaspped version and/or a 4th generation RX7.
Last edited by revhappy; 08-16-2003 at 08:57 PM.
08-16-2003, 10:12 PM
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Glad you're happy with your EVO.
It's clear that some of our expectations are a little different than others. What appeals to one person, another person inexplicably finds lacking.
Personally, I think the RX-8 is a blast to drive. I don't give a crap about straight-line street racing power. Yeah, sometimes it's nice to be able to pull out from a light ahead of the person beside you so you can get in the lane you need to. Oh wait, that's a practical driving requirement. Sorry.
See, the RX-8 is here to excel in everyday driving. And it does. It has plenty of power and handles like a dream. (I don't understand how you could think it doesn't handle well.) The rotary is fun to rev, and the shifter is way better than most.
Perhaps the RX-8 is a jack of all trades, master of none. But in the end, it's the TOTAL driving experience that it gives you when you're making your daily trip to the office that makes it special. I actually look forward to getting up in the morning and heading out to work -- because it gives me an excuse to drive my car.
It's clear that some of our expectations are a little different than others. What appeals to one person, another person inexplicably finds lacking.
Personally, I think the RX-8 is a blast to drive. I don't give a crap about straight-line street racing power. Yeah, sometimes it's nice to be able to pull out from a light ahead of the person beside you so you can get in the lane you need to. Oh wait, that's a practical driving requirement. Sorry.
See, the RX-8 is here to excel in everyday driving. And it does. It has plenty of power and handles like a dream. (I don't understand how you could think it doesn't handle well.) The rotary is fun to rev, and the shifter is way better than most.
Perhaps the RX-8 is a jack of all trades, master of none. But in the end, it's the TOTAL driving experience that it gives you when you're making your daily trip to the office that makes it special. I actually look forward to getting up in the morning and heading out to work -- because it gives me an excuse to drive my car.
08-16-2003, 10:22 PM
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Re: My Test Drive of the RX8
Originally posted by revhappy
My overall impression of the RX8 is that its not that good of a sports car. ..... Frankly, I don't see why an unbiased person would choose the RX8 over cars such as the RSX Type S, Celica GTS and even the Mazdaspeed Protege in the same lot? These cars are as fast (if not faster) in a straight-line than the current underachieving RX8. IMHO, they handle better and are more nimble. In the case of the RSX Type S, the interior is at least if not better than the RX8's.
My overall impression of the RX8 is that its not that good of a sports car. ..... Frankly, I don't see why an unbiased person would choose the RX8 over cars such as the RSX Type S, Celica GTS and even the Mazdaspeed Protege in the same lot? These cars are as fast (if not faster) in a straight-line than the current underachieving RX8. IMHO, they handle better and are more nimble. In the case of the RSX Type S, the interior is at least if not better than the RX8's.
As for all the cars you mention no unbiased person would pick the RX-8 over - I don't see it. I've driven all the above mentioned cars, but I must have driven different cars by the same name or something?? My lasting impressions of each was:
RSX - nice engine, uninspiring interior, boring exterior, nice handling. A hopped up Civic.
Celica - noisy hi-rev only engine, roller skate handling, good interior and stereo, terrible rear visibility, cheap feeling over-all car
Mazdaspeed Protege - nice little fancied-up Protege, needs power
RX-8 - I'm biased, I own it (Grand Touring to the left there). But I can tell it's a far cry from ANY of the above, I'm sorry but you're just plain talking crazy. It IS fast, but so quiet and smooth you don't FEEL it. The rev rnge is HUGE, you can drive in nearly 3rd, 4th, 5th, or 6th and do illegal things easily - that's why it's so different from peeky 4-bangers. They are all about slow build and then final RUSH and lots of noise and commotion.
You don't think it handles? - maybe you should go back and check the tire pressure - must of been set to 20 lbs. I may not know everything - but this car CERTAINLY handle well. I't is a very secure, forgiving, nailed down car in the real world. Maybe not going around cones in a parking lot, but that not what it's designed for, or is at all about.
Evo - you didn't compare this, but I did - days before buying the RX-8. Very nice handling, very fast car (read a smile every drive!), I guess I could learn to love it's ugly face and interior - except the seats, they were great - (after all, beauty isn't only skin deep, right?), but not the Easter Basket handle. More expensive than the RX-8. In the end - I didn't want yet another Japanese 4-door sedan, no matter how fast it went.
Truth be told revhappy, if I had the $$$, I have an EVO too, just to get the rush it gives!! I'm sure you enjoy it always!
Perhaps another way I look at these things is that cars are like a wifes. You may not fall in love on the first date, sometimes you have to spend time getting used to one, and the one you thought you'd never marry, may just be the one that makes you the most happy.
Last edited by Spin9k; 08-16-2003 at 10:31 PM.
08-16-2003, 10:27 PM
#4
I think the reason why you weren't satisfied with the handling is the fact that you test drove a car with the Touring package. That's clearly the worst option package from the handling point of view. You should try one with the Sport package or the Grand Touring package (which includes all the options the Sport package has). You will likely feel a lot of difference as the Touring is set up for just what it's name says - touring.
Of course nobody says the RX-8 is better than anything else out there in it's class - but it's a great drive nevertheless, and the handling (as long the Sport options are there) is truly stellar. I only had one test drive myself, but was very happy with the handling, and let me tell you - I'm not easily satisfied in this department.
However, fuel economy SUCKS. For sure.
Of course nobody says the RX-8 is better than anything else out there in it's class - but it's a great drive nevertheless, and the handling (as long the Sport options are there) is truly stellar. I only had one test drive myself, but was very happy with the handling, and let me tell you - I'm not easily satisfied in this department.
However, fuel economy SUCKS. For sure.
08-16-2003, 10:50 PM
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Thanks Revhappy for your review.
I will changing over from my current car (Protege 5 Automatic) to the RX-8 (GS Automatic) next week, pending the outcome of my test drive, which will take about an hour. Although it will be like comparing apples and oranges, let's hope the RX-8's handling can beat the Protege 5.
I'm glad to hear that the RX-8's engine/exhaust was not too loud. I like to listen to music, without cranking it up to deafening levels, or have a conversation, while driving.
Regarding your comment on the side exterior view, I think the beauty of the continuous curve outweighs the line created by the suicide doors:
I will changing over from my current car (Protege 5 Automatic) to the RX-8 (GS Automatic) next week, pending the outcome of my test drive, which will take about an hour. Although it will be like comparing apples and oranges, let's hope the RX-8's handling can beat the Protege 5.
I'm glad to hear that the RX-8's engine/exhaust was not too loud. I like to listen to music, without cranking it up to deafening levels, or have a conversation, while driving.
Regarding your comment on the side exterior view, I think the beauty of the continuous curve outweighs the line created by the suicide doors:
08-16-2003, 11:12 PM
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revhappy. I completely love the RX-8, but I can agree with many of your points. I would never consider an RSX or Celica in comparo the the RX-8. I am waiting to see how this missing horsepower issue pans out and this gas mileage really upsets me. Perhaps if I were making more money it wouldn't bother me as much.
The other car I am considering purchasing (which is a very different car at that) is the Acura TSX. I truly hate it when cars like the RX-8 come up short on things so important like gas mileage. As much as I badly want the car, the yearly cost of gas (it being premium too) may sway me to the Acura TSX. I have to tell you though that I am trying to find every excuse to get the RX-8 even though the TSX makes more sense for the money.
I haven't heard anyone compare the Acura to the RX-8 really (at least in this price category).
The other car I am considering purchasing (which is a very different car at that) is the Acura TSX. I truly hate it when cars like the RX-8 come up short on things so important like gas mileage. As much as I badly want the car, the yearly cost of gas (it being premium too) may sway me to the Acura TSX. I have to tell you though that I am trying to find every excuse to get the RX-8 even though the TSX makes more sense for the money.
I haven't heard anyone compare the Acura to the RX-8 really (at least in this price category).
08-16-2003, 11:18 PM
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Just to add to the zealotry, I will comment that I too test drove a lot of these cars you mention and for my personal taste the RX-8 blew everything away in the overall package. It's not as fast off the line as some, but thats not something I look for anyways in a car. I personally love the rear seats. Make no mistake, they are MUCH more comfortable than you seem to give them credit for. I also love the sound and feel of the engine and the overall look of the car is awesome to me.
Finally the handling cannot be faulted. I've deliberatly done some stupid looking things in the car in nice big parking lots and the control and response is fantastic. Plus the DSC really does it's thing well. I had to glance at the dash to make sure I had managed to trip it a few times, but actually didnt feel anything other than the car NOT sliding around.
To each his own of course. My fiance isnt a big fan of the car because I didnt get leather (ugh), but thats OK. I'll drive my car, she can keep hers. And let me tell ya, after driving a RX-8 all week, getting into a automatic G20 felt like sitting on a comfy park bench and sliding all over the place. I cant belive I actually drove that car 8 hours once.
NO MORE! RX-8 for meeeee!
Forgot to add, tangierc, didnt you see the EPA sticker on the window? Cant fault the car for a "problem" that is quite easy to see up front can we?
Finally the handling cannot be faulted. I've deliberatly done some stupid looking things in the car in nice big parking lots and the control and response is fantastic. Plus the DSC really does it's thing well. I had to glance at the dash to make sure I had managed to trip it a few times, but actually didnt feel anything other than the car NOT sliding around.
To each his own of course. My fiance isnt a big fan of the car because I didnt get leather (ugh), but thats OK. I'll drive my car, she can keep hers. And let me tell ya, after driving a RX-8 all week, getting into a automatic G20 felt like sitting on a comfy park bench and sliding all over the place. I cant belive I actually drove that car 8 hours once.
NO MORE! RX-8 for meeeee!
Forgot to add, tangierc, didnt you see the EPA sticker on the window? Cant fault the car for a "problem" that is quite easy to see up front can we?
08-16-2003, 11:56 PM
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Re: Re: My Test Drive of the RX8
Originally posted by Spin9k
Nice story, but it can't go uncommented - I think you need more than 10 minutes driving the RX-8. THAT is a given. No way can you deduce accurately all the above, in an unfamiliar car, in 10 minutes. You'll say, "sure I can, I can tell immediately", but you can't.
Nice story, but it can't go uncommented - I think you need more than 10 minutes driving the RX-8. THAT is a given. No way can you deduce accurately all the above, in an unfamiliar car, in 10 minutes. You'll say, "sure I can, I can tell immediately", but you can't.
Originally posted by Spin9k
As for all the cars you mention no unbiased person would pick the RX-8 over - I don't see it. I've driven all the above mentioned cars, but I must have driven different cars by the same name or something?? My lasting impressions of each was:
RSX - nice engine, uninspiring interior, boring exterior, nice handling. A hopped up Civic.
Celica - noisy hi-rev only engine, roller skate handling, good interior and stereo, terrible rear visibility, cheap feeling over-all car
Mazdaspeed Protege - nice little fancied-up Protege, needs power
As for all the cars you mention no unbiased person would pick the RX-8 over - I don't see it. I've driven all the above mentioned cars, but I must have driven different cars by the same name or something?? My lasting impressions of each was:
RSX - nice engine, uninspiring interior, boring exterior, nice handling. A hopped up Civic.
Celica - noisy hi-rev only engine, roller skate handling, good interior and stereo, terrible rear visibility, cheap feeling over-all car
Mazdaspeed Protege - nice little fancied-up Protege, needs power
Originally posted by Spin9k
RX-8 - I'm biased, I own it (Grand Touring to the left there). But I can tell it's a far cry from ANY of the above, I'm sorry but you're just plain talking crazy. It IS fast, but so quiet and smooth you don't FEEL it. The rev rnge is HUGE, you can drive in nearly 3rd, 4th, 5th, or 6th and do illegal things easily - that's why it's so different from peeky 4-bangers. They are all about slow build and then final RUSH and lots of noise and commotion.
RX-8 - I'm biased, I own it (Grand Touring to the left there). But I can tell it's a far cry from ANY of the above, I'm sorry but you're just plain talking crazy. It IS fast, but so quiet and smooth you don't FEEL it. The rev rnge is HUGE, you can drive in nearly 3rd, 4th, 5th, or 6th and do illegal things easily - that's why it's so different from peeky 4-bangers. They are all about slow build and then final RUSH and lots of noise and commotion.
Originally posted by Spin9k
Evo - you didn't compare this, but I did - days before buying the RX-8. Very nice handling, very fast car (read a smile every drive!), I guess I could learn to love it's ugly face and interior - except the seats, they were great - (after all, beauty isn't only skin deep, right?), but not the Easter Basket handle. More expensive than the RX-8. In the end - I didn't want yet another Japanese 4-door sedan, no matter how fast it went. [/B]
Evo - you didn't compare this, but I did - days before buying the RX-8. Very nice handling, very fast car (read a smile every drive!), I guess I could learn to love it's ugly face and interior - except the seats, they were great - (after all, beauty isn't only skin deep, right?), but not the Easter Basket handle. More expensive than the RX-8. In the end - I didn't want yet another Japanese 4-door sedan, no matter how fast it went. [/B]
Originally posted by Spin9k
Truth be told revhappy, if I had the $$$, I have an EVO too, just to get the rush it gives!! I'm sure you enjoy it always! [/B]
Truth be told revhappy, if I had the $$$, I have an EVO too, just to get the rush it gives!! I'm sure you enjoy it always! [/B]
the whole day!
Originally posted by Spin9k Perhaps another way I look at these things is that cars are like a wifes. You may not fall in love on the first date, sometimes you have to spend time getting used to one, and the one you thought you'd never marry, may just be the one that makes you the most happy. [/B]
[/B]
08-16-2003, 11:59 PM
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Originally posted by Tamas
I think the reason why you weren't satisfied with the handling is the fact that you test drove a car with the Touring package. That's clearly the worst option package from the handling point of view. You should try one with the Sport package or the Grand Touring package (which includes all the options the Sport package has). You will likely feel a lot of difference as the Touring is set up for just what it's name says - touring.
Of course nobody says the RX-8 is better than anything else out there in it's class - but it's a great drive nevertheless, and the handling (as long the Sport options are there) is truly stellar. I only had one test drive myself, but was very happy with the handling, and let me tell you - I'm not easily satisfied in this department.
However, fuel economy SUCKS. For sure.
I think the reason why you weren't satisfied with the handling is the fact that you test drove a car with the Touring package. That's clearly the worst option package from the handling point of view. You should try one with the Sport package or the Grand Touring package (which includes all the options the Sport package has). You will likely feel a lot of difference as the Touring is set up for just what it's name says - touring.
Of course nobody says the RX-8 is better than anything else out there in it's class - but it's a great drive nevertheless, and the handling (as long the Sport options are there) is truly stellar. I only had one test drive myself, but was very happy with the handling, and let me tell you - I'm not easily satisfied in this department.
However, fuel economy SUCKS. For sure.
08-17-2003, 12:05 AM
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Originally posted by Canada
Thanks Revhappy for your review.
I will changing over from my current car (Protege 5 Automatic) to the RX-8 (GS Automatic) next week, pending the outcome of my test drive, which will take about an hour. Although it will be like comparing apples and oranges, let's hope the RX-8's handling can beat the Protege 5.
I'm glad to hear that the RX-8's engine/exhaust was not too loud. I like to listen to music, without cranking it up to deafening levels, or have a conversation, while driving.
Regarding your comment on the side exterior view, I think the beauty of the continuous curve outweighs the line created by the suicide doors:
Thanks Revhappy for your review.
I will changing over from my current car (Protege 5 Automatic) to the RX-8 (GS Automatic) next week, pending the outcome of my test drive, which will take about an hour. Although it will be like comparing apples and oranges, let's hope the RX-8's handling can beat the Protege 5.
I'm glad to hear that the RX-8's engine/exhaust was not too loud. I like to listen to music, without cranking it up to deafening levels, or have a conversation, while driving.
Regarding your comment on the side exterior view, I think the beauty of the continuous curve outweighs the line created by the suicide doors:
Please keep in mind that my review was in relation to other sports/sporty cars. The RX8 is a phenomanal car compared to the broader range of vehicles.
08-17-2003, 12:08 AM
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Originally posted by tangierc
revhappy. I completely love the RX-8, but I can agree with many of your points. I would never consider an RSX or Celica in comparo the the RX-8. I am waiting to see how this missing horsepower issue pans out and this gas mileage really upsets me. Perhaps if I were making more money it wouldn't bother me as much.
The other car I am considering purchasing (which is a very different car at that) is the Acura TSX. I truly hate it when cars like the RX-8 come up short on things so important like gas mileage. As much as I badly want the car, the yearly cost of gas (it being premium too) may sway me to the Acura TSX. I have to tell you though that I am trying to find every excuse to get the RX-8 even though the TSX makes more sense for the money.
I haven't heard anyone compare the Acura to the RX-8 really (at least in this price category).
revhappy. I completely love the RX-8, but I can agree with many of your points. I would never consider an RSX or Celica in comparo the the RX-8. I am waiting to see how this missing horsepower issue pans out and this gas mileage really upsets me. Perhaps if I were making more money it wouldn't bother me as much.
The other car I am considering purchasing (which is a very different car at that) is the Acura TSX. I truly hate it when cars like the RX-8 come up short on things so important like gas mileage. As much as I badly want the car, the yearly cost of gas (it being premium too) may sway me to the Acura TSX. I have to tell you though that I am trying to find every excuse to get the RX-8 even though the TSX makes more sense for the money.
I haven't heard anyone compare the Acura to the RX-8 really (at least in this price category).
08-17-2003, 12:59 AM
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That was a very interesting review there, revhappy. This is because I'm actually considering the other two cars (RSX-S, Celica GTS) along with the RX-8 (6MT with Sports package). I know, it's a totally different class, price range, blah blah blah... but I'm weird that way. I was looking at those two cars and then discovered the RX-8 and was willing to stretch my budget a bit to consider it. I am looking for a fun car to drive and am biased towards the coupe styling that all these 3 cars have.
Like you, I've test driven all 3 of them and was able to relate to where you are coming from. With a budget that was intended for cars that are under the $25k range, justifying the purchase of the RX-8 is really more about seeing how much you can get per dollar.
Unlike you, I placed more bias towards the interior and thought that the RX-8's interior looks the best. I liked the short, stubby shifter and the overall feeling of solid construction of the ***** and switches (with the exception of the storage covers along the central tunnel). At the same time, I liked the tactile feel of the material on the RSX-S' dashboard. The gauges do look nice but I prefer the electroluminiscence of the RX-8 because I feel that is how gauges should look like for newer or future cars. The ergonomics and design of the RSX-S' interior is really good but somehow lack the excitement that the other 2 cars give. I somehow prefered the Celica's cockpit-like design where the central console is sloped down so that all the controls are easily within reach and gives the cozy feeling of being in a fighter jet. However, the material quality of the interior feels like cheap plastic compared to the other two cars. As an added bonus, the RSX-S has auto-climate control.
All 3 cars have very nice shifters. The Celica's shifter feel is the worst of the 3. But then, it's still good when compared to cars like the WRX, which I test drove on the same day. I'm a little disappointed with the gear ratios though because it can't fully take advantage of the Celica's narrow powerband. I can't really see the big difference between the shifters on the RSX-S and the RX-8. But I do agree with your observations. I do feel that the RSX-S's is slightly smoother and has longer throws at the same time (mostly due to shifter ****'s height) but I'm not too discerning on which is really better. Both are just as good to me. Pedal feel also felt the same to me but the RSX-S' should've come with the metallic ones like the other two cars (no big deal but still a difference).
As far as seats go, they felt the same too but the preference goes toward the two cheaper cars because they come with leather (remember, I can only afford the Sports Package on the RX-8). The shoulder wings on the RSX-S is the most prominent of all three but I felt that the Celica's seat is the most comfortable. Furthermore, the RSX-S' seat felt too high (no different than a Civic's), which detracts from its sporty intentions. The cloth seats on the RX-8 is as good as the best cloth seats can go and I don't miss the leather seats of the other two for the grippier cloth and the trade-off for less temperature sensitiveness (leather frost bites when cold and burns when hot).
I'm not too really concerned with the blind spots either and it was never a consideration point when looking at these cars. IMO, these blind spots remind you that you're driving a sports car and it adds to that driving feel. I'm not saying blind spots are good; but don't you agree that, even though the WRX out-drags and maybe out-corners the other cars, would you feel the same sports car feel on the WRX compared to the 3 cars?
As for acceleration, I also relate to your point about the two cheaper cars feeling faster. I think it's mostly due to the i-VTEC and VVTI-L of the RSX-S and Celica's engines respectively. As they switch to the higher breathing cam profiles, our butt dynos felt the pull on the cars. Another thing is the wind and road noise. They are usually cues on how fast a car is going. Not to say that these two cars have bad NVH (noise, vibration, harshness) insulation, but I think the RX-8 felt docile because its engine builds power very linearly and has better NVH insulation. I remember having a hard time trying to guess how fast the RX-8 was going. Perhaps your perception of acceleration has been deceived by the aforementioned cues? Personally, I'm divided between the jekyll and hide nature of the I-4's and the linear feel of the rotary. The little boost from the I-4's can be fun but it could get irritating, especially on the very narrow powerband of the Celica's. I also like the frugal fuel consumption nature from those small engines at times when I sit idle in traffic or when I'm not driving aggressively. But then, there's this novel feeling of the smoothness of the rotary at stratospheric rpm's that could get quite addictive.
As far as handling goes, I can't really tell which is better just by test-driving them on public roads. Streering feel is sharp and direct on all 3 cars. RSX-S required more noticeable steering effort (maybe because of the smaller wheel or ratio?). However, I was able to feel that the Celica has the least body roll compared to the other 2. Other than that, I can't really tell how well these cars handle without freaking out the salesman sitting beside me. Therefore, I can only decide the handling based on the magazine numbers. Yeah its magazine racing but there's no way to find out the cars' limit yourself unless the manufacturer gives you that opportunity for events like the Rev-It-Up or BMW's Performance Driving School.
Exterior-wise, it's all about personal subjective preferences. All 3 cars have the sport intentions by the way the wheel sits by the far end of each corner. The RSX's styling is quite bland but at the same time has some elegance to it befitting someone who likes a sporty coupe styling but wouldn't like to be associated with the immature, high school age, ricer types (no offense to the high-schoolers, just the immature types). I like the aircraft canopy shape of the cabin's roof on the Celica. The Celica's look is polarizing. You either like the sharp, chiseled lines or you don't. I for one think it's very well done and still looks unique (except when sitting next to a 350Z). Every generation of Celica has always stood out from the crowd during its time and the styling has always aged well. I think this generation will, too. For the RX-8, I like the form follows function philosophy in the styling. The prominent fenders and the low wheelbase-to-length ratio suggests go-kart handling. The low center of gravity is hinted by the low hood. However, like the RX-7, the low hood sometimes gives the illusion that the RX-8 has a high roofline. I don't care much of the rotary accents, but I like the 18-inch wheels and headlights/taillights design. The functional vents behind the front fenders are a nice touch.
In the end, I still couldn't make up my mind on which car to get. But I had to reply because I happened to be one of those nutty characters that are considering an RX-8 over the other two cars. Why? Because, like what the other RX-8 owners have been chanting on every thread like this, the RX-8 attracts on the overall package. To me, it's the emotion it exudes when you look at and while driving it. It's the sound of the rotary and the anticipation of the redline chime to shift up at 9,000 rpms as you watch the tach climbs. It's about how well the steering, pedals and shifter work together as you rev-match and downshift while approaching a corner. It's the fun of sharing this same feeling with your 3 other friends which the car has room for. The RX-8 is also attractive for its low center of gravity, low polar momentum and 50/50 weight distribution. These are the inherent characteristics of the chassis design. Anything else on the car can be added (more hp, stiffer suspension, etc) but you can't add those chassis characteristics after getting the car. This is also why I like the Celica, because it's very light compared to other cars in its class. Light cars require less effort to accelerate, turn, and brake. You can't add lightness to a car without gutting the interior or adding a carbon fiber hood.
I still can't answer the question of whether the RX-8 is worth the extra $5,000 though (~$28k for the RX-8 Sports package, ~$24k for the Celica, ~$23k for the RSX-S). At this point, I'm hesitant because of the suspected missing hp, the cabin heat/ a/c issue, SUV-like fuel consumption, and the bugs that usually come on first year models. Therefore, I'm waiting and biding my time until these issues are addressed by Mazda. Besides, I'm not willing to pay full MSRP for any car (remember, I'm all for value for the money). But, I would really like to get a new car soon, and the other two cars (I'm leaning more towards the Celica) would probably be my pick if I finally got tired of waiting.
Like you, I've test driven all 3 of them and was able to relate to where you are coming from. With a budget that was intended for cars that are under the $25k range, justifying the purchase of the RX-8 is really more about seeing how much you can get per dollar.
Unlike you, I placed more bias towards the interior and thought that the RX-8's interior looks the best. I liked the short, stubby shifter and the overall feeling of solid construction of the ***** and switches (with the exception of the storage covers along the central tunnel). At the same time, I liked the tactile feel of the material on the RSX-S' dashboard. The gauges do look nice but I prefer the electroluminiscence of the RX-8 because I feel that is how gauges should look like for newer or future cars. The ergonomics and design of the RSX-S' interior is really good but somehow lack the excitement that the other 2 cars give. I somehow prefered the Celica's cockpit-like design where the central console is sloped down so that all the controls are easily within reach and gives the cozy feeling of being in a fighter jet. However, the material quality of the interior feels like cheap plastic compared to the other two cars. As an added bonus, the RSX-S has auto-climate control.
All 3 cars have very nice shifters. The Celica's shifter feel is the worst of the 3. But then, it's still good when compared to cars like the WRX, which I test drove on the same day. I'm a little disappointed with the gear ratios though because it can't fully take advantage of the Celica's narrow powerband. I can't really see the big difference between the shifters on the RSX-S and the RX-8. But I do agree with your observations. I do feel that the RSX-S's is slightly smoother and has longer throws at the same time (mostly due to shifter ****'s height) but I'm not too discerning on which is really better. Both are just as good to me. Pedal feel also felt the same to me but the RSX-S' should've come with the metallic ones like the other two cars (no big deal but still a difference).
As far as seats go, they felt the same too but the preference goes toward the two cheaper cars because they come with leather (remember, I can only afford the Sports Package on the RX-8). The shoulder wings on the RSX-S is the most prominent of all three but I felt that the Celica's seat is the most comfortable. Furthermore, the RSX-S' seat felt too high (no different than a Civic's), which detracts from its sporty intentions. The cloth seats on the RX-8 is as good as the best cloth seats can go and I don't miss the leather seats of the other two for the grippier cloth and the trade-off for less temperature sensitiveness (leather frost bites when cold and burns when hot).
I'm not too really concerned with the blind spots either and it was never a consideration point when looking at these cars. IMO, these blind spots remind you that you're driving a sports car and it adds to that driving feel. I'm not saying blind spots are good; but don't you agree that, even though the WRX out-drags and maybe out-corners the other cars, would you feel the same sports car feel on the WRX compared to the 3 cars?
As for acceleration, I also relate to your point about the two cheaper cars feeling faster. I think it's mostly due to the i-VTEC and VVTI-L of the RSX-S and Celica's engines respectively. As they switch to the higher breathing cam profiles, our butt dynos felt the pull on the cars. Another thing is the wind and road noise. They are usually cues on how fast a car is going. Not to say that these two cars have bad NVH (noise, vibration, harshness) insulation, but I think the RX-8 felt docile because its engine builds power very linearly and has better NVH insulation. I remember having a hard time trying to guess how fast the RX-8 was going. Perhaps your perception of acceleration has been deceived by the aforementioned cues? Personally, I'm divided between the jekyll and hide nature of the I-4's and the linear feel of the rotary. The little boost from the I-4's can be fun but it could get irritating, especially on the very narrow powerband of the Celica's. I also like the frugal fuel consumption nature from those small engines at times when I sit idle in traffic or when I'm not driving aggressively. But then, there's this novel feeling of the smoothness of the rotary at stratospheric rpm's that could get quite addictive.
As far as handling goes, I can't really tell which is better just by test-driving them on public roads. Streering feel is sharp and direct on all 3 cars. RSX-S required more noticeable steering effort (maybe because of the smaller wheel or ratio?). However, I was able to feel that the Celica has the least body roll compared to the other 2. Other than that, I can't really tell how well these cars handle without freaking out the salesman sitting beside me. Therefore, I can only decide the handling based on the magazine numbers. Yeah its magazine racing but there's no way to find out the cars' limit yourself unless the manufacturer gives you that opportunity for events like the Rev-It-Up or BMW's Performance Driving School.
Exterior-wise, it's all about personal subjective preferences. All 3 cars have the sport intentions by the way the wheel sits by the far end of each corner. The RSX's styling is quite bland but at the same time has some elegance to it befitting someone who likes a sporty coupe styling but wouldn't like to be associated with the immature, high school age, ricer types (no offense to the high-schoolers, just the immature types). I like the aircraft canopy shape of the cabin's roof on the Celica. The Celica's look is polarizing. You either like the sharp, chiseled lines or you don't. I for one think it's very well done and still looks unique (except when sitting next to a 350Z). Every generation of Celica has always stood out from the crowd during its time and the styling has always aged well. I think this generation will, too. For the RX-8, I like the form follows function philosophy in the styling. The prominent fenders and the low wheelbase-to-length ratio suggests go-kart handling. The low center of gravity is hinted by the low hood. However, like the RX-7, the low hood sometimes gives the illusion that the RX-8 has a high roofline. I don't care much of the rotary accents, but I like the 18-inch wheels and headlights/taillights design. The functional vents behind the front fenders are a nice touch.
In the end, I still couldn't make up my mind on which car to get. But I had to reply because I happened to be one of those nutty characters that are considering an RX-8 over the other two cars. Why? Because, like what the other RX-8 owners have been chanting on every thread like this, the RX-8 attracts on the overall package. To me, it's the emotion it exudes when you look at and while driving it. It's the sound of the rotary and the anticipation of the redline chime to shift up at 9,000 rpms as you watch the tach climbs. It's about how well the steering, pedals and shifter work together as you rev-match and downshift while approaching a corner. It's the fun of sharing this same feeling with your 3 other friends which the car has room for. The RX-8 is also attractive for its low center of gravity, low polar momentum and 50/50 weight distribution. These are the inherent characteristics of the chassis design. Anything else on the car can be added (more hp, stiffer suspension, etc) but you can't add those chassis characteristics after getting the car. This is also why I like the Celica, because it's very light compared to other cars in its class. Light cars require less effort to accelerate, turn, and brake. You can't add lightness to a car without gutting the interior or adding a carbon fiber hood.
I still can't answer the question of whether the RX-8 is worth the extra $5,000 though (~$28k for the RX-8 Sports package, ~$24k for the Celica, ~$23k for the RSX-S). At this point, I'm hesitant because of the suspected missing hp, the cabin heat/ a/c issue, SUV-like fuel consumption, and the bugs that usually come on first year models. Therefore, I'm waiting and biding my time until these issues are addressed by Mazda. Besides, I'm not willing to pay full MSRP for any car (remember, I'm all for value for the money). But, I would really like to get a new car soon, and the other two cars (I'm leaning more towards the Celica) would probably be my pick if I finally got tired of waiting.
Last edited by downshift; 08-17-2003 at 01:53 AM.
08-17-2003, 01:38 AM
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Originally posted by tangierc
revhappy. I completely love the RX-8, but I can agree with many of your points. I would never consider an RSX or Celica in comparo the the RX-8. I am waiting to see how this missing horsepower issue pans out and this gas mileage really upsets me. Perhaps if I were making more money it wouldn't bother me as much.
The other car I am considering purchasing (which is a very different car at that) is the Acura TSX. I truly hate it when cars like the RX-8 come up short on things so important like gas mileage. As much as I badly want the car, the yearly cost of gas (it being premium too) may sway me to the Acura TSX. I have to tell you though that I am trying to find every excuse to get the RX-8 even though the TSX makes more sense for the money.
I haven't heard anyone compare the Acura to the RX-8 really (at least in this price category).
revhappy. I completely love the RX-8, but I can agree with many of your points. I would never consider an RSX or Celica in comparo the the RX-8. I am waiting to see how this missing horsepower issue pans out and this gas mileage really upsets me. Perhaps if I were making more money it wouldn't bother me as much.
The other car I am considering purchasing (which is a very different car at that) is the Acura TSX. I truly hate it when cars like the RX-8 come up short on things so important like gas mileage. As much as I badly want the car, the yearly cost of gas (it being premium too) may sway me to the Acura TSX. I have to tell you though that I am trying to find every excuse to get the RX-8 even though the TSX makes more sense for the money.
I haven't heard anyone compare the Acura to the RX-8 really (at least in this price category).
To me, TSX is all about value for the money. For 28k, you get a very nice and quite luxurious interior. At that same price, you can't get powered leather seats or sunroof on the RX-8 (Mazda should've make the options more flexible, but I digress). Just like any Acura or any German cars, the tactile feel of the *****, levers, and storage covers/doors are excellent. The gauges, which are also electroluminescent like the RX-8, are very nicely done. Like the RSX-S, the 6-speed shifter is buttery smooth and a joy to use. Everything is refined. It's quiet and has a comfortable ride. It felt tight like the RSX-S but doesn't have its road noise. You sit higher in the TSX like any other sedans and thus feel slightly more roll due to your higher CG (center of gravity).
Like the newer Acura's, the exterior is nicely done and carries some elegance. However, to some people, it looked bland. But I still think it looks better than the other sedans in its class (Altima, Maxima, Passat, A4) despite lacking the character or personality of the German cars, for better or worse.
There's not much else I can add to it. I didn't even try the back seats at all and never really paid attention to the details as I wasn't planning on buying one. Comparing it to the RX-8 is basically comparing it to what you can get per dollar. In that sense, you get more luxury and refinement at the expense of less sports car feel which the RX-8 has. Additionally, you may get better service from Acura (concierge, loaner car, etc). And with any other Honda's, the car should run trouble free with minimal maintenance.
08-17-2003, 01:45 AM
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I am going to be purchasing an Evolution 8 as part of a deal with a friend that is working with me in some investing as payment so I recently test drove one and compared it to my 93 RX-7 (which is making over 350RWHP now) and the RX-8. I like the tight turning ratio, and honestly the Evo 8 felt faster to me, a 250whp that weighs 500lbs more than a 350whp car? Thats right. My Rx-7 turned a low 12 on street tires last time I was at the drag strip, which is a lot quicker than an Evo 8, but the Evo 8 still felt faster, in my opinion I think its because of how smooth the rotary engine is vs reciprocating. The FD zooms right to 8500RPM without a hitch. Thats just my opinion though, and I think going fast and handling well are a lot better than feeling fast. Heck try going 50 in a Pinto and it will probably feel fast. Personally I am buying an RX-8 because of the comforts and styling it offers. Plus honestly I dont think the gas mileage on it is that bad, the EPA ratings compared to IS300, G35C and other cars in its class are pretty similar.
08-17-2003, 02:06 AM
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Revhappy - it's interesting that I had somewhat similar feelings to you about the RX-8 (on performance aspects at least) during my first test drive (I stayed under 7000rpm). I liked the car, loved the interior of the GT, thought it was too quiet and slow - except that I looked at cars around me and thought they were stationary or in reverse. When I thought I was doing 50 I was at 80 and so on.
I have test-driven many, many cars - get invites to all the MB, BMW, Lexus, Cadillac etc events and make it a point to check out other interesting rides every now and again. I have never driven an RSX-Type S but get regular RSXs as loaner cars from Acura when my MDX is being serviced, and I have driven the Celica GT-S - the RX-8 is several leagues above them in every single respect except noise produced. Of all those other cars I was interested enough about to revisit, only three cars have gotten better with the 2nd and subsequent test-drives: the Miata, the S2000 and the RX-8. Most cars stop impressing when the euphoria of being in something new wears off (e.g. BMW 330i, G35, Boxster, A4, A6, MB C320, S430 etc). In the case of the RX-8, my 2nd and third drives (last time in a demo car with 4 adults on board and an hour after a test in a G35) were a revelation. Let me say that I thrashed that car as best I could on the (quiet) roads and in an empty carpark over 20mins and signed a check a few days later.
The G35 was faster, the EVO was much faster still and hugely fun, but the RX-8 was 'special' and hugely fun - perfect for me. I can imagine one day perhaps getting bored of the EVOs speed - and then what is left to attract me to that car? The G35, at the end of the day, is yet another big, fast sedan with gizmos and a good price. The RX-8 is fast enough for me already (fastest car I've owned - noticably better than my IS300 if you rev it) and may get even better if Mazda steps up to the plate. To me it has gorgeous styling from almost every angle, the red/black GT interior is stunning and practical - even my wife comments on how much easier it is to get the baby seat into the back compared to the IS300. I make a point on every test drive to sit in the back whilst the salesguy drives off the lot (or when my wife is testdriving) - the RX-8 has about as much usable space in the back as the IS300 or BMW 330i, the incredible thing is it doesn't look like it has that space (by rather clever design).
I've had the car for just over a week now and about 550 miles. Two personal examples of it's handling and deceptive speed:
Every day on my way to work I have to exit a highway and cross three lanes of a feeder road in 200 yards and get on a sharply curving (120 degree) steep up-ramp to another road. In my IS300 I have taken this up-ramp maybe 200 times at speeds between 10-25mph - and it felt scary at 25mph with concrete walls a few feet on each side (think airport carpark spiral going up, but wider). Last week, the first time I took this route in the RX-8, I accidentally (deceptive RX-8 speed again) squealed the tires on the RX-8, and after braking to check speed, found the digits reading 42mph. At that time instead of emitting a shriek of terror that I was about to wreck my new baby on the concrete barriers, I let out a whoop of joy - the car was PLANTED and felt so stable and in control (unlike my IS300 at 25mph).
A few miles from my house there is a small circular pond with a wide smooth strip of tarmac making a 90 degree off camber corner around it, but from a distance it looks like a gentle high speed curve. A year ago I went around that corner for the first time ever in the IS300 at a reasonable 40mph and spun the car across the road - my first and only spin out on public roads in that car. I never went around that corner again at over 20 mph. Today, on purpose, I went around that same corner at precisely 40mph in the RX-8, no drama, no fuss, the car could easily do more.
Some may say my IS300 is just crap at handling, but the magazines all agree it is about the best handling/steering sport sedan out there below the M3. Personally I think the RX-8 has superb handling and ride and grip and steering and so on. You get the drift - try one again and make it a GT with red/black leather next time.
I have test-driven many, many cars - get invites to all the MB, BMW, Lexus, Cadillac etc events and make it a point to check out other interesting rides every now and again. I have never driven an RSX-Type S but get regular RSXs as loaner cars from Acura when my MDX is being serviced, and I have driven the Celica GT-S - the RX-8 is several leagues above them in every single respect except noise produced. Of all those other cars I was interested enough about to revisit, only three cars have gotten better with the 2nd and subsequent test-drives: the Miata, the S2000 and the RX-8. Most cars stop impressing when the euphoria of being in something new wears off (e.g. BMW 330i, G35, Boxster, A4, A6, MB C320, S430 etc). In the case of the RX-8, my 2nd and third drives (last time in a demo car with 4 adults on board and an hour after a test in a G35) were a revelation. Let me say that I thrashed that car as best I could on the (quiet) roads and in an empty carpark over 20mins and signed a check a few days later.
The G35 was faster, the EVO was much faster still and hugely fun, but the RX-8 was 'special' and hugely fun - perfect for me. I can imagine one day perhaps getting bored of the EVOs speed - and then what is left to attract me to that car? The G35, at the end of the day, is yet another big, fast sedan with gizmos and a good price. The RX-8 is fast enough for me already (fastest car I've owned - noticably better than my IS300 if you rev it) and may get even better if Mazda steps up to the plate. To me it has gorgeous styling from almost every angle, the red/black GT interior is stunning and practical - even my wife comments on how much easier it is to get the baby seat into the back compared to the IS300. I make a point on every test drive to sit in the back whilst the salesguy drives off the lot (or when my wife is testdriving) - the RX-8 has about as much usable space in the back as the IS300 or BMW 330i, the incredible thing is it doesn't look like it has that space (by rather clever design).
I've had the car for just over a week now and about 550 miles. Two personal examples of it's handling and deceptive speed:
Every day on my way to work I have to exit a highway and cross three lanes of a feeder road in 200 yards and get on a sharply curving (120 degree) steep up-ramp to another road. In my IS300 I have taken this up-ramp maybe 200 times at speeds between 10-25mph - and it felt scary at 25mph with concrete walls a few feet on each side (think airport carpark spiral going up, but wider). Last week, the first time I took this route in the RX-8, I accidentally (deceptive RX-8 speed again) squealed the tires on the RX-8, and after braking to check speed, found the digits reading 42mph. At that time instead of emitting a shriek of terror that I was about to wreck my new baby on the concrete barriers, I let out a whoop of joy - the car was PLANTED and felt so stable and in control (unlike my IS300 at 25mph).
A few miles from my house there is a small circular pond with a wide smooth strip of tarmac making a 90 degree off camber corner around it, but from a distance it looks like a gentle high speed curve. A year ago I went around that corner for the first time ever in the IS300 at a reasonable 40mph and spun the car across the road - my first and only spin out on public roads in that car. I never went around that corner again at over 20 mph. Today, on purpose, I went around that same corner at precisely 40mph in the RX-8, no drama, no fuss, the car could easily do more.
Some may say my IS300 is just crap at handling, but the magazines all agree it is about the best handling/steering sport sedan out there below the M3. Personally I think the RX-8 has superb handling and ride and grip and steering and so on. You get the drift - try one again and make it a GT with red/black leather next time.
08-17-2003, 08:34 AM
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Revhappy lost his objectivity on the subject as soon as he purchased the evo. Many others who test drove all that you did including your evo and the RX8 came to completely different conclusions. The only difference, they waited to buy until they test drove them all. I test drove all that you mentioned, what you drive, and many others, prior to buying the RX8. I can not see any of the numerous flaws you found with the RX8, your whole post reads like a bad case of rationalization. If I were buying again, I would stick with the numerous objective evaluations on the subject, before even considering one as subjective as yours. Enjoy you evo, I am truly enjoying my 8.
08-17-2003, 09:44 AM
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Re: My Test Drive of the RX8
Originally posted by revhappy
Pulling out onto the highway, it was apparent to me that the missing power issue is legitimate. I shifted to about 7,300 RPM and did not notice any power increase around 6,250 RPM.
Pulling out onto the highway, it was apparent to me that the missing power issue is legitimate. I shifted to about 7,300 RPM and did not notice any power increase around 6,250 RPM.
08-17-2003, 11:14 AM
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maybe different settings
I keep hearing about missing power with the RX8. Acceleration from low revs to high revs is very strong and even better once you get past the 6K rev range. I don't feel the there is any power missing in mine. Maybe there are ECU settings that aren't quite "up-to-snuff" in some of the cars?
Even during break-in and just taking the revs to 5K RPMs gave strong acceleration.
While the RSX/TSX are fine cars in their own right, I didn't get the same "quality feel" in them as I did with the RX8.
In all truthfullness, if 0-60 is near top of the list of things you're looking at in a car, none of the typical sports cars mentioned (350Z/G35, TSX/RSX, etc would be on my list. I'd be looking at V8s in the Mustang or maybe a used Corvette. That's where you're going to get the "best in class" 0-60.
The EVO or WRX are also good cars, but you sacrifice a lot of refinement in the process.
Even during break-in and just taking the revs to 5K RPMs gave strong acceleration.
While the RSX/TSX are fine cars in their own right, I didn't get the same "quality feel" in them as I did with the RX8.
In all truthfullness, if 0-60 is near top of the list of things you're looking at in a car, none of the typical sports cars mentioned (350Z/G35, TSX/RSX, etc would be on my list. I'd be looking at V8s in the Mustang or maybe a used Corvette. That's where you're going to get the "best in class" 0-60.
The EVO or WRX are also good cars, but you sacrifice a lot of refinement in the process.
08-17-2003, 11:21 AM
#20
*nod* I think some bias really comes in when you've grown a habit of bashing on a car... then you expect it to perform a certain way in your mind.
I drove the S2000, G35C, 350Z, and lots of other cars before the RX-8 and the only car that really felt better was the S2000, but given its obscene loudness, only two seats, and crappy stereo... it was impractical. Impractical but fun However the RX-8 was nearly up to the S2000's par on the 'fun to drive' factor, while not matching it in power, so I went for it.
The Evo is like the S2000... very fun to drive, very fast, but unfortunately not a car I could live in on a day-to-day basis.
But hey, that's just me.
I drove the S2000, G35C, 350Z, and lots of other cars before the RX-8 and the only car that really felt better was the S2000, but given its obscene loudness, only two seats, and crappy stereo... it was impractical. Impractical but fun
However the RX-8 was nearly up to the S2000's par on the 'fun to drive' factor, while not matching it in power, so I went for it.The Evo is like the S2000... very fun to drive, very fast, but unfortunately not a car I could live in on a day-to-day basis.
But hey, that's just me.
08-17-2003, 11:45 AM
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Originally posted by downshift
That was a very interesting review there, revhappy. This is because I'm actually considering the other two cars (RSX-S, Celica GTS) along with the RX-8 (6MT with Sports package). I know, it's a totally different class, price range, blah blah blah... but I'm weird that way. I was looking at those two cars and then discovered the RX-8 and was willing to stretch my budget a bit to consider it. I am looking for a fun car to drive and am biased towards the coupe styling that all these 3 cars have.
Like you, I've test driven all 3 of them and was able to relate to where you are coming from. With a budget that was intended for cars that are under the $25k range, justifying the purchase of the RX-8 is really more about seeing how much you can get per dollar.
Unlike you, I placed more bias towards the interior and thought that the RX-8's interior looks the best. I liked the short, stubby shifter and the overall feeling of solid construction of the ***** and switches (with the exception of the storage covers along the central tunnel). At the same time, I liked the tactile feel of the material on the RSX-S' dashboard. The gauges do look nice but I prefer the electroluminiscence of the RX-8 because I feel that is how gauges should look like for newer or future cars. The ergonomics and design of the RSX-S' interior is really good but somehow lack the excitement that the other 2 cars give. I somehow prefered the Celica's cockpit-like design where the central console is sloped down so that all the controls are easily within reach and gives the cozy feeling of being in a fighter jet. However, the material quality of the interior feels like cheap plastic compared to the other two cars. As an added bonus, the RSX-S has auto-climate control.
All 3 cars have very nice shifters. The Celica's shifter feel is the worst of the 3. But then, it's still good when compared to cars like the WRX, which I test drove on the same day. I'm a little disappointed with the gear ratios though because it can't fully take advantage of the Celica's narrow powerband. I can't really see the big difference between the shifters on the RSX-S and the RX-8. But I do agree with your observations. I do feel that the RSX-S's is slightly smoother and has longer throws at the same time (mostly due to shifter ****'s height) but I'm not too discerning on which is really better. Both are just as good to me. Pedal feel also felt the same to me but the RSX-S' should've come with the metallic ones like the other two cars (no big deal but still a difference).
As far as seats go, they felt the same too but the preference goes toward the two cheaper cars because they come with leather (remember, I can only afford the Sports Package on the RX-8). The shoulder wings on the RSX-S is the most prominent of all three but I felt that the Celica's seat is the most comfortable. Furthermore, the RSX-S' seat felt too high (no different than a Civic's), which detracts from its sporty intentions. The cloth seats on the RX-8 is as good as the best cloth seats can go and I don't miss the leather seats of the other two for the grippier cloth and the trade-off for less temperature sensitiveness (leather frost bites when cold and burns when hot).
I'm not too really concerned with the blind spots either and it was never a consideration point when looking at these cars. IMO, these blind spots remind you that you're driving a sports car and it adds to that driving feel. I'm not saying blind spots are good; but don't you agree that, even though the WRX out-drags and maybe out-corners the other cars, would you feel the same sports car feel on the WRX compared to the 3 cars?
As for acceleration, I also relate to your point about the two cheaper cars feeling faster. I think it's mostly due to the i-VTEC and VVTI-L of the RSX-S and Celica's engines respectively. As they switch to the higher breathing cam profiles, our butt dynos felt the pull on the cars. Another thing is the wind and road noise. They are usually cues on how fast a car is going. Not to say that these two cars have bad NVH (noise, vibration, harshness) insulation, but I think the RX-8 felt docile because its engine builds power very linearly and has better NVH insulation. I remember having a hard time trying to guess how fast the RX-8 was going. Perhaps your perception of acceleration has been deceived by the aforementioned cues? Personally, I'm divided between the jekyll and hide nature of the I-4's and the linear feel of the rotary. The little boost from the I-4's can be fun but it could get irritating, especially on the very narrow powerband of the Celica's. I also like the frugal fuel consumption nature from those small engines at times when I sit idle in traffic or when I'm not driving aggressively. But then, there's this novel feeling of the smoothness of the rotary at stratospheric rpm's that could get quite addictive.
As far as handling goes, I can't really tell which is better just by test-driving them on public roads. Streering feel is sharp and direct on all 3 cars. RSX-S required more noticeable steering effort (maybe because of the smaller wheel or ratio?). However, I was able to feel that the Celica has the least body roll compared to the other 2. Other than that, I can't really tell how well these cars handle without freaking out the salesman sitting beside me. Therefore, I can only decide the handling based on the magazine numbers. Yeah its magazine racing but there's no way to find out the cars' limit yourself unless the manufacturer gives you that opportunity for events like the Rev-It-Up or BMW's Performance Driving School.
Exterior-wise, it's all about personal subjective preferences. All 3 cars have the sport intentions by the way the wheel sits by the far end of each corner. The RSX's styling is quite bland but at the same time has some elegance to it befitting someone who likes a sporty coupe styling but wouldn't like to be associated with the immature, high school age, ricer types (no offense to the high-schoolers, just the immature types). I like the aircraft canopy shape of the cabin's roof on the Celica. The Celica's look is polarizing. You either like the sharp, chiseled lines or you don't. I for one think it's very well done and still looks unique (except when sitting next to a 350Z). Every generation of Celica has always stood out from the crowd during its time and the styling has always aged well. I think this generation will, too. For the RX-8, I like the form follows function philosophy in the styling. The prominent fenders and the low wheelbase-to-length ratio suggests go-kart handling. The low center of gravity is hinted by the low hood. However, like the RX-7, the low hood sometimes gives the illusion that the RX-8 has a high roofline. I don't care much of the rotary accents, but I like the 18-inch wheels and headlights/taillights design. The functional vents behind the front fenders are a nice touch.
In the end, I still couldn't make up my mind on which car to get. But I had to reply because I happened to be one of those nutty characters that are considering an RX-8 over the other two cars. Why? Because, like what the other RX-8 owners have been chanting on every thread like this, the RX-8 attracts on the overall package. To me, it's the emotion it exudes when you look at and while driving it. It's the sound of the rotary and the anticipation of the redline chime to shift up at 9,000 rpms as you watch the tach climbs. It's about how well the steering, pedals and shifter work together as you rev-match and downshift while approaching a corner. It's the fun of sharing this same feeling with your 3 other friends which the car has room for. The RX-8 is also attractive for its low center of gravity, low polar momentum and 50/50 weight distribution. These are the inherent characteristics of the chassis design. Anything else on the car can be added (more hp, stiffer suspension, etc) but you can't add those chassis characteristics after getting the car. This is also why I like the Celica, because it's very light compared to other cars in its class. Light cars require less effort to accelerate, turn, and brake. You can't add lightness to a car without gutting the interior or adding a carbon fiber hood.
I still can't answer the question of whether the RX-8 is worth the extra $5,000 though (~$28k for the RX-8 Sports package, ~$24k for the Celica, ~$23k for the RSX-S). At this point, I'm hesitant because of the suspected missing hp, the cabin heat/ a/c issue, SUV-like fuel consumption, and the bugs that usually come on first year models. Therefore, I'm waiting and biding my time until these issues are addressed by Mazda. Besides, I'm not willing to pay full MSRP for any car (remember, I'm all for value for the money). But, I would really like to get a new car soon, and the other two cars (I'm leaning more towards the Celica) would probably be my pick if I finally got tired of waiting.
That was a very interesting review there, revhappy. This is because I'm actually considering the other two cars (RSX-S, Celica GTS) along with the RX-8 (6MT with Sports package). I know, it's a totally different class, price range, blah blah blah... but I'm weird that way. I was looking at those two cars and then discovered the RX-8 and was willing to stretch my budget a bit to consider it. I am looking for a fun car to drive and am biased towards the coupe styling that all these 3 cars have.
Like you, I've test driven all 3 of them and was able to relate to where you are coming from. With a budget that was intended for cars that are under the $25k range, justifying the purchase of the RX-8 is really more about seeing how much you can get per dollar.
Unlike you, I placed more bias towards the interior and thought that the RX-8's interior looks the best. I liked the short, stubby shifter and the overall feeling of solid construction of the ***** and switches (with the exception of the storage covers along the central tunnel). At the same time, I liked the tactile feel of the material on the RSX-S' dashboard. The gauges do look nice but I prefer the electroluminiscence of the RX-8 because I feel that is how gauges should look like for newer or future cars. The ergonomics and design of the RSX-S' interior is really good but somehow lack the excitement that the other 2 cars give. I somehow prefered the Celica's cockpit-like design where the central console is sloped down so that all the controls are easily within reach and gives the cozy feeling of being in a fighter jet. However, the material quality of the interior feels like cheap plastic compared to the other two cars. As an added bonus, the RSX-S has auto-climate control.
All 3 cars have very nice shifters. The Celica's shifter feel is the worst of the 3. But then, it's still good when compared to cars like the WRX, which I test drove on the same day. I'm a little disappointed with the gear ratios though because it can't fully take advantage of the Celica's narrow powerband. I can't really see the big difference between the shifters on the RSX-S and the RX-8. But I do agree with your observations. I do feel that the RSX-S's is slightly smoother and has longer throws at the same time (mostly due to shifter ****'s height) but I'm not too discerning on which is really better. Both are just as good to me. Pedal feel also felt the same to me but the RSX-S' should've come with the metallic ones like the other two cars (no big deal but still a difference).
As far as seats go, they felt the same too but the preference goes toward the two cheaper cars because they come with leather (remember, I can only afford the Sports Package on the RX-8). The shoulder wings on the RSX-S is the most prominent of all three but I felt that the Celica's seat is the most comfortable. Furthermore, the RSX-S' seat felt too high (no different than a Civic's), which detracts from its sporty intentions. The cloth seats on the RX-8 is as good as the best cloth seats can go and I don't miss the leather seats of the other two for the grippier cloth and the trade-off for less temperature sensitiveness (leather frost bites when cold and burns when hot).
I'm not too really concerned with the blind spots either and it was never a consideration point when looking at these cars. IMO, these blind spots remind you that you're driving a sports car and it adds to that driving feel. I'm not saying blind spots are good; but don't you agree that, even though the WRX out-drags and maybe out-corners the other cars, would you feel the same sports car feel on the WRX compared to the 3 cars?
As for acceleration, I also relate to your point about the two cheaper cars feeling faster. I think it's mostly due to the i-VTEC and VVTI-L of the RSX-S and Celica's engines respectively. As they switch to the higher breathing cam profiles, our butt dynos felt the pull on the cars. Another thing is the wind and road noise. They are usually cues on how fast a car is going. Not to say that these two cars have bad NVH (noise, vibration, harshness) insulation, but I think the RX-8 felt docile because its engine builds power very linearly and has better NVH insulation. I remember having a hard time trying to guess how fast the RX-8 was going. Perhaps your perception of acceleration has been deceived by the aforementioned cues? Personally, I'm divided between the jekyll and hide nature of the I-4's and the linear feel of the rotary. The little boost from the I-4's can be fun but it could get irritating, especially on the very narrow powerband of the Celica's. I also like the frugal fuel consumption nature from those small engines at times when I sit idle in traffic or when I'm not driving aggressively. But then, there's this novel feeling of the smoothness of the rotary at stratospheric rpm's that could get quite addictive.
As far as handling goes, I can't really tell which is better just by test-driving them on public roads. Streering feel is sharp and direct on all 3 cars. RSX-S required more noticeable steering effort (maybe because of the smaller wheel or ratio?). However, I was able to feel that the Celica has the least body roll compared to the other 2. Other than that, I can't really tell how well these cars handle without freaking out the salesman sitting beside me. Therefore, I can only decide the handling based on the magazine numbers. Yeah its magazine racing but there's no way to find out the cars' limit yourself unless the manufacturer gives you that opportunity for events like the Rev-It-Up or BMW's Performance Driving School.
Exterior-wise, it's all about personal subjective preferences. All 3 cars have the sport intentions by the way the wheel sits by the far end of each corner. The RSX's styling is quite bland but at the same time has some elegance to it befitting someone who likes a sporty coupe styling but wouldn't like to be associated with the immature, high school age, ricer types (no offense to the high-schoolers, just the immature types). I like the aircraft canopy shape of the cabin's roof on the Celica. The Celica's look is polarizing. You either like the sharp, chiseled lines or you don't. I for one think it's very well done and still looks unique (except when sitting next to a 350Z). Every generation of Celica has always stood out from the crowd during its time and the styling has always aged well. I think this generation will, too. For the RX-8, I like the form follows function philosophy in the styling. The prominent fenders and the low wheelbase-to-length ratio suggests go-kart handling. The low center of gravity is hinted by the low hood. However, like the RX-7, the low hood sometimes gives the illusion that the RX-8 has a high roofline. I don't care much of the rotary accents, but I like the 18-inch wheels and headlights/taillights design. The functional vents behind the front fenders are a nice touch.
In the end, I still couldn't make up my mind on which car to get. But I had to reply because I happened to be one of those nutty characters that are considering an RX-8 over the other two cars. Why? Because, like what the other RX-8 owners have been chanting on every thread like this, the RX-8 attracts on the overall package. To me, it's the emotion it exudes when you look at and while driving it. It's the sound of the rotary and the anticipation of the redline chime to shift up at 9,000 rpms as you watch the tach climbs. It's about how well the steering, pedals and shifter work together as you rev-match and downshift while approaching a corner. It's the fun of sharing this same feeling with your 3 other friends which the car has room for. The RX-8 is also attractive for its low center of gravity, low polar momentum and 50/50 weight distribution. These are the inherent characteristics of the chassis design. Anything else on the car can be added (more hp, stiffer suspension, etc) but you can't add those chassis characteristics after getting the car. This is also why I like the Celica, because it's very light compared to other cars in its class. Light cars require less effort to accelerate, turn, and brake. You can't add lightness to a car without gutting the interior or adding a carbon fiber hood.
I still can't answer the question of whether the RX-8 is worth the extra $5,000 though (~$28k for the RX-8 Sports package, ~$24k for the Celica, ~$23k for the RSX-S). At this point, I'm hesitant because of the suspected missing hp, the cabin heat/ a/c issue, SUV-like fuel consumption, and the bugs that usually come on first year models. Therefore, I'm waiting and biding my time until these issues are addressed by Mazda. Besides, I'm not willing to pay full MSRP for any car (remember, I'm all for value for the money). But, I would really like to get a new car soon, and the other two cars (I'm leaning more towards the Celica) would probably be my pick if I finally got tired of waiting.
Excellent analysis! 2 years ago I was cross-shopping the RSX-S, WRX and Celica GTS. I had rented an automatic Celica GT on a vacation (drove it over 1,500 miles) and was extremely impressed with the handling. I ruled out the WRX immediately as it had a lot of body roll and the gearbox was horrible. It was a struggle deciding between the Celica and RSX, but eventually the Celica's narrow powerband (needs another 1-2K RPMS) and gearbox left me slightly leaning towards the RSX-S. Stll, the Celica is a fine car and is one of the best examples of the way a mass-produced sporty car should be tuned.
Good luck with whatever car you choose.
08-17-2003, 11:54 AM
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Originally posted by RX8-U-UP
Revhappy lost his objectivity on the subject as soon as he purchased the evo. Many others who test drove all that you did including your evo and the RX8 came to completely different conclusions. The only difference, they waited to buy until they test drove them all. I test drove all that you mentioned, what you drive, and many others, prior to buying the RX8. I can not see any of the numerous flaws you found with the RX8, your whole post reads like a bad case of rationalization. If I were buying again, I would stick with the numerous objective evaluations on the subject, before even considering one as subjective as yours. Enjoy you evo, I am truly enjoying my 8.
Revhappy lost his objectivity on the subject as soon as he purchased the evo. Many others who test drove all that you did including your evo and the RX8 came to completely different conclusions. The only difference, they waited to buy until they test drove them all. I test drove all that you mentioned, what you drive, and many others, prior to buying the RX8. I can not see any of the numerous flaws you found with the RX8, your whole post reads like a bad case of rationalization. If I were buying again, I would stick with the numerous objective evaluations on the subject, before even considering one as subjective as yours. Enjoy you evo, I am truly enjoying my 8.
That's why I specifically did not compare it to the EVO (mostly) and instead contrasted the RX8 with other cars I did not buy. I know these cars and have driven them several times(since I came very close to buying them, but passed and waited for the RX8).
BTW..how would an RX8 owner's retrospective review fall on this bias scale?
08-17-2003, 12:03 PM
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Originally posted by Hercules
*nod* I think some bias really comes in when you've grown a habit of bashing on a car... then you expect it to perform a certain way in your mind.
I drove the S2000, G35C, 350Z, and lots of other cars before the RX-8 and the only car that really felt better was the S2000, but given its obscene loudness, only two seats, and crappy stereo... it was impractical. Impractical but fun However the RX-8 was nearly up to the S2000's par on the 'fun to drive' factor, while not matching it in power, so I went for it.
The Evo is like the S2000... very fun to drive, very fast, but unfortunately not a car I could live in on a day-to-day basis.
But hey, that's just me.
*nod* I think some bias really comes in when you've grown a habit of bashing on a car... then you expect it to perform a certain way in your mind.
I drove the S2000, G35C, 350Z, and lots of other cars before the RX-8 and the only car that really felt better was the S2000, but given its obscene loudness, only two seats, and crappy stereo... it was impractical. Impractical but fun
However the RX-8 was nearly up to the S2000's par on the 'fun to drive' factor, while not matching it in power, so I went for it.The Evo is like the S2000... very fun to drive, very fast, but unfortunately not a car I could live in on a day-to-day basis.
But hey, that's just me.
08-17-2003, 12:08 PM
#24
Originally posted by revhappy
What about the bias inherent in the following of a car for several months or years? Certainly many people invested a lot of time and energy on this board. Furthermore, there is something to be said about the bias that naturally develops to prevent someone form admitting they were wrong (i.e. "folks I spent thousands of hours on this board and it was a total waste of time since this car did not live up to my expectations").
What about the bias inherent in the following of a car for several months or years? Certainly many people invested a lot of time and energy on this board. Furthermore, there is something to be said about the bias that naturally develops to prevent someone form admitting they were wrong (i.e. "folks I spent thousands of hours on this board and it was a total waste of time since this car did not live up to my expectations").
To each his own.
I think the odd thing is that you make mention of the items that are deemed pretty good, like the shifter, as being poor. Now that may be your personal feel of it since you're used to the Evo shifter (which is subpar, imo but I digress). Most reviews and people will give the credit on that to the RX-8. I think that's why your review is getting flack.
Besides, if I went to the Evo forums and told them about how the Evo was a subpar car, then they wouldn't take too kindly to it either. This is why I just find it pointless you even stick around here.. you got your car, and nothing from you thus far has brought about interesting debate, only flames from both sides (the RX-8 owners et al), and really provides a poor platform for discussion.
I checked out the Infiniti G35C, ruled it out yet, I don't stay on the FreshAlloy forums putting the car down like you (and Skyline and others) do. I have the sense to leave and chat about the car I chose. Perhaps you'd do the same. Then again, given the stubbornness of the trolls (and it's not been you but others), they won't ever leave because they have nothing better to do, and love that attention that mommy never gave them (Skyline et al).
Cheers.
Last edited by Hercules; 08-17-2003 at 12:13 PM.
08-17-2003, 12:43 PM
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Impulsive Revhappy wrote "BTW..how would an RX8 owner's retrospective review fall on this bias scale?"
Revhappy, I did not give a restrospective review for all to see how biased I was, YOU DID. I objectively reviewed for myself all cars I was considering prior to forking over 30K. YOU are the one that DORKED over 25K on a hunch. Now obviously, you have to build up your decision by bashing something you did not objectively evaluate before the purchase. I did my homework, you did your homework late, so it doesn't count. Try and enjoy your impulsive decision. I am truly enjoying my well thought out, and totally objective decision.
Revhappy, I did not give a restrospective review for all to see how biased I was, YOU DID. I objectively reviewed for myself all cars I was considering prior to forking over 30K. YOU are the one that DORKED over 25K on a hunch. Now obviously, you have to build up your decision by bashing something you did not objectively evaluate before the purchase. I did my homework, you did your homework late, so it doesn't count. Try and enjoy your impulsive decision. I am truly enjoying my well thought out, and totally objective decision.