flatso

Which would you buy?

crossbow

Test drive both. You'll know after the first turn which to choose.

MikeW

Which one doesn't have an obsolete transmission? They both have obsolete 4 speed automatics.
The 2005 Camry now (finally) has a 5 speed automatic with their 4 cylinder, and honda has had a five speed auto since 2003.

Mugatu

iTrader: (1)

wow, let's compare a big family sedan with an econo size car. wonderful.

zoom44

because there is a 5 speed auto the 4 speed auto is now "obsolete"?

flatso

sure it's not a one to one comparison but they both handle well and cost about the same, so hard to decide which to buy.

Ike

If you can't afford the 3.5 I say go for the Mazda3. It's more fun and tossable and it's a fresher design.

czr

iTrader: (3)

Go for the tC. But if I had to choose between those two it would be the altima although it is outdated. I had the 3 for a whole day as a loaner and test drove the altima last year.

MikeW

Not now, since 1990 the five speed automatic has been out.

With a 4 speed automatic you either have HUGE gaps between gears or a complete lack of gear ratio coverage.
All 6 speed automatics have at least 6:1 gear ratios coverage(lexus 6.5:1, MB 7gTronic 6:1, ZF 7p, 7.38:1-no torque converter), the wide ratio 5 speed automatics, JATCO & Toyota transverse have, ~5.5:1, a normal 5 speed auto is ~5:1,(accord V6) and a close ratio 5 speed is 4.5:1.
Now the widest 4 speed autos are 4.5:1, and closest are 3.5:1 and a low typical is 4:1. 3 speed autos <=3:1. about the same as the model t's planetary gear transmission L & H
Mercedes Benz 7 speed auto is so advanced that the torque converter clutch closes even in first gear, and for the most part is always closed except when idle, shifting and in continous torque converter slip, and maybe reverse also (and special winter aka. comfort mode)

arattle

Dunno if I'd call Altima outdated - it was all-new in 2002, and I had that car for over a year. Not bad at all, if you need a large sedan. Slightly underpowered, not the greatest handler, but overall a solid package. Girlfriend bought Mazda3 in March, and it's a completely different vehicle. Sportier, a better handler, and seems to be targeted at a different demographic. This really would depend on what you're looking for in a car. I'd say that Mazda3 is a slightly better option though, plus it's a bit cheaper as well.

-arattle

Rxdriftingaction

I don't know.. all depend on the price !! and..

Cattywampus

I own a ''02'' 3.5. My cars has really good pick up. It handles ok. It's doesn't handle as good as the 8. But I haven't taken it through the twisties yet. In any sense get the Mazda 3 if you can't afford the 3.5. The 3.5 does have excellent pick up. Also very good hp

PoorCollegeKid

That's a fairly good explanation of why having more gears is better. However, until any of these transmissions are as efficient and reliable as a good 4AT for a comparable price, I'd hesistate to call all 4ATs obsolete. Since you mentioned Honda's 5AT that was released back in the day, you probably know about their recent recall of ~600,000 their 5ATs for mechanical failures and their extension of transmission warranties in 2002 for ~1.2 million 5AT equipped cars. You also probably know that Mercedes transmissions don't exactly have a reputation of being rock solid, even in their low powered cars.

Just for fun, let's look at a good 4AT and compare it to a 5AT. Take a GM 4L60, for example. Automatic FBodies and Corvettes put down only ~10hp less than their manual trannied counterparts (290-305rwhp compared to 295-315rwhp on average from what I've seen). Five speed automatic Acura TLs lose about as much as this over their manual siblings through their lighter, weaker transmissions (~213fwhp for an auto, ~225fwhp for a manual), and since their engines are much less powerful it represents a higher percentage lost than for the GMs. If you look at total power lost as a percentage of the engine's total output, rather just extra lost power when compared to a manual transmission, you will notice that the 4AT also comes out with an edge. The 4L60E sucks up about 55-65hp, while the Honda transmissions lose only 50-60hp. However, this means that while the 4AT dissipates 15%-18% of the engine's power (Note: This assume true crank output of 360chp, not the rated 305-320chp for the FBodies. If we assume that GMs ratings are accurate, our data looks horribly wrong as a car cannot put down more hp to the ground than it produces at the crank.), the Honda transmission saps about 21% of the engine's power (assuming a crank output of 270chp). Since there are differentials and driveshafts involved, the actual transmissions don't account for all of this loss, but factoring these things in would simply be too complicated and would move the results further in favor of the 4AT because the RWD LS1 powered cars have a much heavier and more robust drivetrain than a FWD J32 powered TL. This is not to say that the TL's transmission is inefficient, however. The 21% loss calculated above is actually fairly common for most FWD automatic transmissions in use today and makes the Acura's 5AT one of the most efficient 5ATs that I've seen to date, but it still lags slightly behind the most efficient 4ATs even those that must deal with much more power and torque. Eventually, the 5+ speed automatic transmissions will become just as efficient and cheap as the current 4ATs, but until then the 4AT will continue to have a niche to fill in the automotive industry.

Edit: I wrote TSX when I really meant TL. Oops :o

Ike

Whatever you do don't debadge if you get the Mazda 3, I've seen countless jackasses rolling around in their Mazda 3 with holes in their trunk from doing so...

Don Vito

Mazda 3 for sure.

zoom44

so what? what of any of that makes a 4at "obsolete" there are a ton of reasons why a current 4at would be chosen over a 5at like.....

edit: read the poorcollegekid post above. he said it better than me. :D

thanks poorcollegekid

truemagellen

MAZDA 3 for sure...my gf has one and loves it but hers is a stick, also get the navigation if you can afford it, same as ours and you can add video in (talk to thew at rx8garage.net )

a few things...fun car, logically designed, MUCH MUCH cheaper then the Hondas and Toyotas people mentions plus nicer looking then the Nissan, Honda, Toyota, any of them

Peppy engine, if you can get the more powerful one

also options for HID lighting

there are steering wheel controls

well put it this way it has more features then most cars costing 30 grand

GET IT YOU WONT BE DISSAPOINTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MikeW

Just read this.
http://www.sovereign-publications.com/auto-art-2.htm
I am not trying to screw anyone, once you drive a 5 speed auto you can not go back to 4 speeds.
How about looking for a nice used base automatic RSX.
A nice follow up.
http://www.audiworld.com/news/00/zf/content.shtml