All this ignorance about the power issue with the 8 is driving me crazy. I plan to end the debate, one way or the other. Here's how I plan on doing so.

1) I'm going to make every effort to get the real dyno's and time slip's used by Mazda when they tested and changed the hp to 238

2) I'm going to get a real, technical explination from someone in Mazda about why the power was lost.

3) I'm going to find out if there is an ECU break-in period, and if we can expect more power after the ECU flips. And find out if this explains the ragged dyno sheets after 6250 rpm. Also try to get an example of a dyno after the ECU flip, assuming there is one.

4) Perform evaluations on at least 3 cars using the drag-strip, an accelerometer based measuring device (probably the one from Passport), and a chassis dyno.

I plan on having all this ready and printed in the first issue of RX Tuner magazine that will be printed by the 3rd week of Sept. I really want to put this to rest, and hope that my testing will result in positively. However, if the results are bad, I will report that too.

In the meantime, I'm going to clamp down on all the speculation and ignorant talk that's going on. If I see somebody with no 'real' knowledge presenting their opinions in an argumentative way, as if they know what they're talk about, I will delete the post without explination. It's been covered, 1000 times. From now on I want FACTS!

Consider yourself warned. If I have to do this repeatedly, I have no problem with banning problem users.

Let's hope you get some honest answers from Mazda, one way or another. I think your curiosity speaks for most people here, current or possible owners.
You should make this a sticky for a while.

Thank you! It IS ridiculous and it isn't doing any good other than scaring potential owners visiting the forum.

Originally posted by BOOSTD 7
I plan on having all this ready and printed in the first issue of RX Tuner magazine that will be printed by the 3rd week of Sept. I really want to put this to rest, and hope that my testing will result in positively. However, if the results are bad, I will report that too.If you have the information by then, but printing is delayed, would you consider releasing your findings via another means? We're all going to have to decide on the buyback by October 1st, and this information - if you're able to obtain it - may be critical to some folks' decision.

I'm assuming that posting personal dyno charts and/or 1/4 mile slips are still ok? :)

If you can do that boostd7, then you be the man!!!

AMEN

Do that, boostd, and you'll have the gratitude of a lot of people.

Originally posted by missinmahseven
Do that, boostd, and you'll have the gratitude of a lot of people.

yes you will

Thank you Boost.
I am keeping the buy back in my back pocket till I read your review.
Pam

Go BOOST.. sick em bad boy.

All anyone really wants is truth.

Thanks, BOOSTD. I'm not satisfied by the various explanations for the "strange" dyno results that have been posted, and it seems like your plan will answer my concerns one way or another. I'm grateful to you for taking on the job.

Yes dude! Let's clean up OUR forum form trolls and idiot posts. I don't care if people want to be negative about the 8 -- I myself have posted pluses and minuses, postivie and negative experiences . . . but with tact, respect, and thought!

These guys are just saying the sky is falling as if there is a $10,000 error with the car.

I have not decided what to do with the 2 options either, but for God sakes I am still "thinking" about it, not being a cyber-moron

Thank you. I'm a little sick of all this crap!:cool:

This information, whatever the outcome, needs to be shared with us enthusiasts in this forum prior to 9/30/03.

I hope for the best.

Go boy! You have my 100% support.

Vince

An eminently logical and reasonable approach to the situation - go to it! :D

THANK YOU!!!

Just what we need to end the chaos and make an informed decision.

if i (or my car) can be be of any help in any way let me know Boostd. saturday i start a trip into cali down to monterey and then back up the coast thru San Fran back up into Oregon. ill be back the following sunday to check in on the forum.

Ryan, I suggest getting with Berny Herrera, President/Director of the SoCalRX club(Event organizer of Sevenstock6). He's the local liason with mucho MNAO contacts and he could likely streamline the requests.

I'd like to see this issue die down before Sevenstock6 and the witch-hunt mobs come at Mazda with torches and pitchforks. Ryan PM me if you need his digits, but I'm sure you've got them. I'll forward your post to the SoCal group also. Let's douse this fire before it tosses a stink-bomb on the premiere annual US rotary event.

Originally posted by Toadman

I'd like to see this issue die down before Sevenstock6 and the witch-hunt mobs come at Mazda with torches and pitchforks.

Ouch, that would be a spooky sight. I'm sure we could all imagine. Too bad I can't go and be a part of the mob.. heheh

Originally posted by Toadman
Ryan, I suggest getting with Berny Herrera, President/Director of the SoCalRX club(Event organizer of Sevenstock6). He's the local liason with mucho MNAO contacts and he could likely streamline the requests.

I'd like to see this issue die down before Sevenstock6 and the witch-hunt mobs come at Mazda with torches and pitchforks. Ryan PM me if you need his digits, but I'm sure you've got them. I'll forward your post to the SoCal group also. Let's douse this fire before it tosses a stink-bomb on the premiere annual US rotary event.

Thanks Todd, Berny and Dan are the ones I'm going to work with to get this done. I might not be so eager if I thought the result would be bad, but I'm confident that the results will be a comfort to present and potential future RX-8 owners.

This site gets a lot of mazdausa visibility, it's a powerful leveraging stick. I plan to use that to get the info that all of us so badly want.

Thanks very much my pathetic e-mails and numerous calls to mazda do nothing to help the issue. All i get is some type of customer service rep that only knows what they are told to say. Hell i found the(Supposed fax number to mazda motor corps R@D facility in Yokohama Heres the small ammount of info i have found. I hope it helps a little.


Name of Organization MAZDA MOTOR CORPORATION Mazda R&D Center Yokohama
(Abbreviated name) MRY
Foundation Date 1987.6.
Address 2-5 Moriya-cho,Kanagawa-ku,Yokohama-shi,Kanagawa,221-0022,Japan

Tel +81-45-461-1211

Fax +81-45-461-1211

Main Activities
Investigation to market trends in the Tokyo
metro politan area and to create concepts for future
Products through research on leading-edge technology.


Number of Teacher 0
Number of Staff 0
Number of Graduate Student 0
Area of Site 35,474.00m2
Area of Buildings 23,032.00m2
Research Field
Q Mechanical Engineering

S Environmental Engineering

T Transport and Traffic Engineering

H Engineering in general

I System and Control Engineering

Thanks again from a lot of us. I'll hold back my options until this is exposed fully. Maybe a call to MNAO to affirm my "no position without a technical explanation, with the buy back option a real possibility without that explanation". All of your questions here deserve addressing.

Where's the line for that first issue?

Thank you. I applaud your effort.

Question.

Would it help to get some sort of petition signed by users of the forum stating our frustration with the lack of official info and abundance of misinfo. I know personally, if the MPG, HP, Dyno, issues aren't resolved, or at least explained by October 1st, I would have a hard time keeping this car. I just hope Mazda knows how many people are frustrated by all of this.

Is there an easy way to do an electronic petition?

I'm not talking fire and brimstone wording, just something letting them know how many customers are concerned and how many buybacks could be hitting them if they don't find a way to put our mind at ease with some facts and detailed explanations.

Anyways, just a thought.

Originally posted by BOOSTD 7
...2) I'm going to get a real, technical explination from someone in Mazda about why the power was lost.... Oh yeah! This is good! The word "grateful" just isn't sufficient to describe how we would feel to know this is going on.

The above quote is there so I can request, uh, will you please try to find out what plans there may be in regards to the "fix", assuming that there is something that they can put their finger on?

Also, is there really a lost fuel efficiency in their opinion and how might it tie-in with the lost power?

Like you don't already have a full plate. I think those questions are fundamentally tied to your quest though.

Finally, someone with the means is stepping up to end all this flood of fanboys vs. trolls post on this board with the hard truth. I'm not an owner but I'm sitting on the fence on this one and you have my gratitude.

Except I publish no magazine. I hope you get the information, + or -.
My wife thinks I'm nuts to think about giving the car back. I've waited 4 years for it and drove her nuts before it came out just being on the forum. I've got almost 4K on mine; at around 1100 miles at the Gap in NC/TN it seemed to have plenty of power - it almost literally jumps in 2nd gear in the 6K-9K range. I hope I can try get some 1/4 mile times in or at least decent 0-60 times when I get my car back with 4 good tires again (hopefully tomorrow, Weds).
One question: where does one get the RX tuner magazine?

Comments on original thread: I've had exactly those thoughts today. There are technical folks at Mazda who know what's going on. Those of us who bought the car sight-unseen [preordered] deserve to be privy to this data. If ECU mods were part of the 'port campaign' we should be told. Mazda service depts *should* be able to download data from the OBD system and tell us if performance parameters are out of line.

while I write this I'm looking through the clubwrx forum at used cars for sale... and considering getting my 5th 1st gen RX-7, or finding a nice 3rd gen... or whether to hang on to the RX-8 to see if the ECU turns out to be the culprit. I'm thankful for a month to think about it and lose sleep over it... and I look forward to and TIA for the research and future report(s)!

We will do what we can to address the gas mileage issue, but appears to be a 'non-issue'. From what I see, the people who are reporting bad mileage are under 2000 miles. And we think that there IS a switch at 2000 that puts things more in-line with what they should be.

About where you can get RX Tuner magazine, read this:

RX Tuner announcement (http://www.rx7club.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=218315)

I vow to do everything I can to put this issue to rest. And I'm confident that once we gather ALL the info, you'll feel much better about your purchase.

Please just keep the speculation and negativity to a minimum until you see the results. It's our goal to have everything together before the 30 day buy-back period is over.

thanks boosted,im ready to start reading the postive things about are new cars. after playing a little with a guy in a boxter s today theres no way i want to give this car back.:D

Ditto what everyone said. I'll hold my decision in abeyance till you're able to report back to us. Also, we should agree if Mazda won't play ball with you that'll weigh heavily in our decisions to return the car. If they're not forthcoming with you, that just tells me there's more bad news that we don't yet know about and the car is a liability. And thank you so much for tackling this head on.

Can someone in the US find MAZDAS owners list for the rx8 as u can appreciatte the forum members and owners only make up a small pecentage , so if you can get to the other owners you will have a better chance of getting mazda to tell us the truth .

UNITED RX8 OWNERS HAVE BETTER NEGOTIATIONS , THAN MERE IN DIVIDUALS .
UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL .

I'm interested in compiling a list of people who are willing to go on record, in a formal written statement to Mazda USA, complaining about the following issues with the RX-8 that have been delivered.

1) Lack of power as advertised. 247 hp listed on the sticker is not the case. Even the revised number of 238 hp is still beyond the current power levels observed by owners. Current observed power levels are much closer to 196 hp for the 6MT engine.

2) Gas Mileage far below the advertised numbers. Even under ideal driving conditions, many owners are experiencing engine mileage from as low as 13 mpg up to 21 mpg, with the majority of people regularly observing mileage numbers from 16 to 17 mpg.


This is not to say that I am unhappy with my RX-8, I just wish that these issues could be addressed in a way which will be satisfactory to the majority of the oweners.

Anyone who is interested in participating should privately email me to overload@sylfex.com including their real name, rx-8 puchase date, VIN number, and mailing address.

I will compile the list and submit it to as high up the chain in Mazda USA as I can get.

Regards,

OverLOAD

Thank you Ryan. Would it be beneficial to have a list of owner names/VINS who you can claim to be representing during your negotiations with Mazda - there must be over a hundred on this site alone. I would happily PM you my details, as would others I am sure.

I want to thank everyone who has committed to finding out the final truth about both the horsepower and mileage questions that have come up. For me, 247 or 238 is not the issue. The issue is that the false information has undermined my confidence in the car and left me with the expectation that there may be other shortcomings uncovered.

I think it is very important that the power of this user group is harnessed to encourage Mazda to respond with answers and assurances. While the buy back or compensation offer is a tentative first step a better one is for Mazda to commit to providing a correction of the problem that will be available to current owners at no charge. That would be a huge PR plus for Mazda!

I hope that the information gathered is positive. I think the car is a good value and fun to drive but would strongly consider the buy back without satisfactory information being provided by Mazda. I'm currently reexamining Audi A4's and Mercedes C Class not because they are superior but because I have confidence in the manufacturer.

I am anxiously awaitng the outcome!

I'll keep an eye out for Japanese car website, magazines, and try to pull some info when I can. I can understand maybe 40% of what I read. I am not sure if JDM info ill be relevent, but it's worth a shot. There has been a lot of production RX-8 tests done in Japan with real numbers and figures. If anyone knows a Japanese RX-8 forum, please let me know. (East Moon san?)

Here is the website if any of you are fluent in Japanese.
http://www.artex.co.jp/Pages/Car/RX-8/magazine/

Also, do contact the Mazda Japan engineers. I had engine issues with my last Millenia S that no one seems to know how to fix. Finally they set up a conference call between the dealership, Mazda USA and Mazda Japan engineers and got the issue resolved in an afternoon. They designed and engineered the car afterall.

Good luck guys.

Thanks so much, BOOSTD! This will be immensely helpful for all of us.

I emailed Mazda yesterday telling them that I appreciate their $500/free maintenance "good faith" offer, but that I was still disturbed by the loss of horsepower, and that I'd rather have a fix to the problem than be paid off. I encouraged them to try to find a fix and to keep us updated on what they're doing to remedy the situation.

I'm sure many of you have also done this. Maybe if we all email them and say something similar, it will do more to show them how we feel and encourage them to be forthcoming with us. I don't think we can tell them enough.

Thank you!!!

These are the facts that I have been waiting for.

Please post ASAP.

Thanks

Danny

Owner of a 2004 GS RX8.

I too want to thank you for doing this BOOSTD. Hopefully this can bring some clarity for RX-8 owners and pre-orders.

For Mock-Up Purposes Only!

http://www.rx7club.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=2100646

B

SWEET :D

Let's get the subscription info out ASAP!

how and when can I get that mag

Originally posted by BOOSTD 7
All this ignorance about the power issue with the 8 is driving me crazy. I plan to end the debate, one way or the other. Here's how I plan on doing so.

1) I'm going to make every effort to get the real dyno's and time slip's used by Mazda when they tested and changed the hp to 238

2) I'm going to get a real, technical explination from someone in Mazda about why the power was lost.

I called MNAO yesterday and asked the equivalent of these questions. The pleasant woman didn't have an answer, but was going into a meeting with the bosses later.

Today she called me back and relayed their answer, that is, Mazda is not going to release any more information, no test, how they did it, no dynos, no nothing. She said Mazda has offered all owners the generous package and that was the end of the situation, as far as they were concerned . {paraphrasing}

Also she was understanding on a personal level, but she said she was only offering the company's response. Just thought you might want to know. :(

Originally posted by Spin9k
Mazda is not going to release any more information, no test, how they did it, no dynos, no nothing. She said Mazda has offered all owners the generous package and that was the end of the situation, as far as they were concerned . {paraphrasing}

That was the same "take it or leave it" response that I received from MNAO. Unfortunately it is no longer in Mazda's best interest to be forth coming with new information about this situation. At this point they are going to plead the 5th and try not to incriminate themselves. Thus the burden of proof (lower Hp and pursuing cover-up) is now on us. Anyways this has already been said a hundred times.

I'm shutting up now and enjoying my car for what it is. :)

I guess no updates on how to get the magazine or where to go to subscribe??? I would love to get a hold of that copy....

Originally posted by Tempt-8-tions
I guess no updates on how to get the magazine or where to go to subscribe??? I would love to get a hold of that copy....

You'll get your chance soon! We're still in prototype stage, preparing the first prototype issue for Sevenstock in September.

Just got the letter! Haven't decided, depends on what I read. I'm particularly bothered by Mazda's refusal to provide more info. This makes me feel like returning the car just to spite them!

What are my car options? While we complain about 238 I haven't found another car at this price point that offers more than 220.
I just read a comparison of the TSX, MB Kompressor and the Saab 9/3 all of which appear to have less power. The Saab has the most power and is still the slowest! I paid a bit over 31K and now with the rebate it would be 30K. These cars range from 29 - 33K so what's the point?

Now all of this assumes that the actual HP remains at 237 and isn't 200 or something after it's tested again. Since Mazda refuses to provide their actual test reults I'll probably base my decision on what I see here in the next month or so.

Please make your findings public as soon as you have them.

The burden is on Mazda, not us.

All we need is enough people to band together to get some formal information from Mazda.

Mazda has not been upfront with us. I have still not recieved my letter, however I will be making the call to the return phone number, not with the intent to get the car returned, but to get someone on the other end who is willing to listen to all the collective new RX-8 owners.

It's Mazdas lack of openness that's got us all so pissed off about this whole thing. If they had promised us 300 horses, and actually delivered 247, we'd still be all pissed off. Mazda needs to wise up, and treat it's customers with respect. The customers are what makes the business survive!

Please don't flame me, because I'd like to know all the answers just like anyone else. But let me play devil's advocate for Mazda for a moment.

Suppose they do release an averaged dyno chart for some number of cars that they have tested. This causes a flurry of obsessive owners to dyno their own cars and compare their chart to the official one. Then Mazda gets andgry calls from forum member IHaveWetDreamsAboutRX8s and hundreds of others like him, complaining that "My dyno results show 3hp less than the Mazda chart at 4150RPM - wassup with that?"

The 'horse situation' would always be out there, alive and kicking, and would never be beaten to death, as it eventually should be (apologies to PETA).

Personally, I think it would be stupid for Mazda to realease dyno charts to a bunch of crazy rotorheads like us. What they should do is let us know all of the secret peculiarities of the car, such as alternate ECU mappings, throttle restrictions during break-in, dyno do's and don'ts, etc. Maybe even comment on some of the members' posted dyno results. I think that would make a lot of us satisfied.

Thanks for the efforts to get more info Boostd7. There are countless people here who appreciate what you are trying to do and are behind you. :)

Brian

Originally posted by Peter Sawko
What are my car options? While we complain about 238 I haven't found another car at this price point that offers more than 220.


Umm, If I am doing the math correctly the dynos are showing that the RX-8 is making closer to or under 220HP unless you think that there is really a 25% drivetrain loss with a carbon fiber drive shaft then its making 238..

I was watching the TechTv show TechLive. On the bottom of the screen they have a scrolling extra info section at the bottom.

I just so happend they mentioned the rx-8 and the fact that it is now being rated at less than advertised rates. At the end of the tid-bit of info it said "mazda blames the power loss on an emission tweek"

What about escalating the level of contact at MNAO beyond "customer service representative?

I just got the dealer survey letter signed Peter Whaley, Vice President of Sales Operations for MNAO.

Wow, it's been a month or so since I've checked in here and am I ever glad i moved on from getting the RX-8. The power deficit is just plain crap. I was getting my Miata serviced yesterday and I noticed the dealership now has 3 RX-8s sitting idly on the lot. This is a debacle in the making.

a debacle ?!?!?!?! a little over-dramatic.................


the only bad publicity this car is getting is from right here on the freakin' forum

Is Mazda doing anything to solve the problem, except for giving customers compensations? Are they going to improve the power output for next year's model?

Yesterday I checked the forum about this topic on HP and your quest for answers. What I found was a few other tidbits that are related - one being the emissions test done by an owner in TN. They mentioned that the car is emitting - 0 emmisions. I believe that the wisdom here, on this site has already determined that:

If the car is producing 250ps in Japan accurately measured and all things are equal then the only possible difference must be in the emmisions/computer/ECU system.

One point though that I find as great news to owners and I continue to post about is the benefical results using REGULAR gas. I am not being cheap (used premium for the last 7 years) but I found that THIS CAR likes that grade of gas. hmm. At $0.20 a gallon savings that is fantastic - about $3.00 a tank. We may not have the answers from Mazda but amongst those in the forum, we can find a great many things out. I appreciate this site GREATLY and am learning so MUCH. We do need to clear out the nasty crap - it scares people. Negativity spreads much faster than positive (it seems) and we do need to enjoy our cars more. BTW - THEY ARE SELLING HERE< THEY KEEP GETTING IN NEW ONES!!!!

Let's keep this thread on target. Take all the other stuff to the appropriate threads, please.

---jps

Good luck BOOSTD 7, I applaud your leadership and commitment. As someone who HAS been (occasionally) negative over the last few weeks I look forward to reading the truth at last (all being well). I think a lot of the hysteria has been repressed shock: we all have a massive investment in this car (and I don't mean financial) and the uncertainty and bad news was not good for the soul. I think I can speak for all the UK pre-orderers when I express our deep desire to discover the facts BEFORE we (eventually) get our cars.

What they should do is let us know all of the secret peculiarities of the car, such as alternate ECU mappings, throttle restrictions during break-in, dyno do's and don'ts, etc. Maybe even comment on some of the members' posted dyno results. I think that would make a lot of us satisfied.

What car company would do this??

Honestly, I'm quite baffled by owner reaction to all this. My '91 Coupe has a whopping 160 horsepower! I dearly want an RX-8, but not because it has/had/will someday have 238hp, but because I like the whole concept of it, think it was executed extremely well and, to top it off, it's rotary powered.

I also like the Celica and if I ever bought one, it wouldn't be because I compared owner's dyno results with the claims of Toyota!

If you own an RX-8, do yourself a favour and get out there and just enjoy the darn thing! Some people here are extremely jealous, whether you have 247hp or 238!

Some info I have gotten from various JDM forums and magazines:

1) Power of JDM Type S RX-8 seems to be making right around 200ps. Havn't seen too many user dynos, mostly magazine and tuner news. The 210ps model is surprising a lot of people in its performance. The additional torque down low is reported as pretty noticeable.

2) Common problems: A/C not strong enough, Check engine light, oil level light, and the 250ps model doesn't seem stronger than 210ps model. People also complain a lot about the lack of heat insulation in the passenger cabin.

3) Fuel issues: From reading a bunch of user reports, the fuel efficiency ranged anywhere between 13mpg to around 19mpg, the average is around 16-17mpg. Most complain about the gas milage worse than anticipation, as they were expecting 20+mpg. City driving yields 13-14, and highway yields 19-20mpg.

http://homepage1.nifty.com/ARKCHAN/photo/03080913oozumi-start.jpg
Big shout out to da brotherhood across Pacific~
btw: in case anyone is wondering, the official secret sign of the RX crowd is the rotary symbol. Don't do this while you are driving, since you need both hands to form the rotary shape.

I think I've seen the above shot on an "Ultraman" episode from way back.. :)

Regarding the power issue, I'll simply quote my wife during tonight's family outing:

"Damn, honey, you almost gave me whiplash!"

That's good enough for me! :D

Originally posted by rxse7en
For Mock-Up Purposes Only!

http://www.rx7club.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=2100646

B

Man I can't keep up with this stuff. Now there is a 239hp controversy! First Mazda drops HP from 247 to 238.... Now this 239hp controversy...

Oh well at least the HP numbers are going up by one. That is a positive step :D

Originally posted by loungeliz


Man I can't keep up with this stuff. Now there is a 239hp controversy! First Mazda drops HP from 247 to 238.... Now this 239hp controversy...

Oh well at least the HP numbers are going up by one. That is a positive step :D

Those numbers were made up for the cover mock-up.

B

Originally posted by Skyline Maniac
...Big shout out to da brotherhood across Pacific~
btw: in case anyone is wondering, the official secret sign of the RX crowd is the rotary symbol. Don't do this while you are driving, since you need both hands to form the rotary shape.

Uh, yo dudes!

http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=92277#post92277 (my 8/7 post...)

Live long and rotor!

OK, so who is going to pick up the handle STARTRX8 after that little Spockism them??? Hmmm???? :D :D :D

Originally posted by Kev
OK, so who is going to pick up the handle STARTRX8 after that little Spockism them??? Hmmm???? :D :D :D If you're suggesting me, nah, not since I've had my ears clipped. I have however displayed some latent spockish dendancies...
http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=58080#post58080
(Don't read the whole thread since I made somewhat of an a$$ of myself there. Not a good way to break-in to a new forum.)

You however might want the handle STARWARX8 since you seem to posess some Mighty Yoda within you.
Hmmm????:D :D :D :p

You however might want the handle STARWARX8 since you seem to posess some Mighty Yoda within you.

Nah, I walk funny for a different reason :D

...and OhBigOneTheNobbi is way too long!

Has anyone actually seen an improvement in mileage or performance after 2000 miles. There have to be a few past that mark by now.

The fuel issue bothers me since the car was built to be practical, but I just see this as an opportunity to get one real cheap. There are eight and counting at my local dealer.

Originally posted by jdwk
Has anyone actually seen an improvement in mileage or performance after 2000 miles. There have to be a few past that mark by now.

The fuel issue bothers me since the car was built to be practical, but I just see this as an opportunity to get one real cheap. There are eight and counting at my local dealer.

Yes and yes. Mileage is getting better I've gotten over 22 MPG on mostly highway at 80 MPH. And it now pulls strongly to redline with a surge after about 7500. There is a noticeable plateau in the 7000-7500 range with a strong pull right after. I'm guessing that's turbulence caused by a couple valves opening around 7250.

Originally posted by Edge


Yes and yes. Mileage is getting better I've gotten over 22 MPG on mostly highway at 80 MPH. And it now pulls strongly to redline with a surge after about 7500. There is a noticeable plateau in the 7000-7500 range with a strong pull right after. I'm guessing that's turbulence caused by a couple valves opening around 7250.

This is what I notice also; seemed to start after 2200 miles on car. Last 3 tanks were 20 mpg. Stronger pull. Now have 3000 miles on car.

247, 238 ... whatever.

I just got back from an 800 mile (each way) road trip over the long weekend from Phoenix to Texas and back.

Wow, what a great car! The trip ranged from 1100 ft altitude to 7500 ft and long Interstate 40 straights to winding two lane mountain roads, day and night. I never did figure out how fast I could take the turns as the car has more courage than I do. It seemed effortless to do 30 Mph above posted curve limits.

When I got home yesterday after 800 miles in 12 hours (including stops and meals), I was still having fun.

Then, I checked the mail, and there it was ... "The Letter".

Duh ... no brainer. I signed it just so I could DRIVE to the post office!!!!

$500 and free service is just icing on the cake.

BTW with the help of Escort Passport 8500 and due vigilance I made it across New Mexico ... fast ... TWICE with only two near misses. For those not familiar with the "Land of Enchantment" (New Mexico) ... Quite a feat!:)

Hmmm... might have to try and pick one up near invoice. They have like 10 of them on the lot.

I just wanted to let you know, abou this website:

http://www.yawpower.com/tqvshp.html

"Buger" posted this in another thread. The above articles within the webpage he posted talks about HP, torque, acceleration in a very nice and clear fashion -- giving lots of insightful understandings about should I worry abou HP, torque, etc. The guy is focused on the rotaries, but the infroomation he gives is of course generic and based on physics -- its well written so you don't have to be a physics major or math expert to understand it....

I just made some calculations using the formulas from the above webpage (yawpower...).

I have an RX8 on order and am excited about it, based on my driving experience with it, it was great.

Below is a reporting of the "rate of acceleration" in G's (multiples of the gravity constant), in both 1st and 2nd gear, for several cars:

(below stats on got from their websites)

Honda Civic LX: 110 torque, 2474 lbs curb weight, 1st gear=3.462:1, 2nd gear=1.870:1, final drive=4.070:1

BMW 330Ci: 214 torque, 3285 lbs, 1st = 4.21, 2nd = 2.49, final = 2.93.

RX8: 159 torque, 3000 lbs, 1st = 3.760, 2nd = 2.269, final = 4.444

G35: 270 torque, 3450 lbs, 1st = 3.794, 2nd = 2.324, final = 3.536

350Z: 274 torque, 3247 lbs (touring), 1st = 3.794, 2nd = 2.324, final = 3.536


Car 1st 2nd
--------------------------------

Honda 0.63G 0.33G
BMW 0.80G 0.47G
RX8 0.70G 0.53G
G35 1.05G 0.64G
350Z 1.13G 0.69G

......RX8 is still cool for me!

oooops, G35 was the coupe model, i.e. G35C.

And the above data is "peak power", meaing the G's vary according to the RPM, so in reality I should show you a graph per car, but that's a lot of computation for me now. Any MS Excel geeks can give it a try...

Originally posted by superocho
And the above data is "peak power", meaing the G's vary according to the RPM, so in reality I should show you a graph per car, but that's a lot of computation for me now. Any MS Excel geeks can give it a try...

Hi Superocho,

I think what you were trying to compute was G's at peak torque not peak power.

I did a similar thing a couple of months ago in the below post:

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=75770#post75770

but we seem to have come up with different #s. Are you sure you are computing things correctly?

Brian

The formula I used was the one at the bottom of the webpage:

http://www.yawpower.com/tqvshp.html

We used different numbers. For one, I assumed 1-ft radius wheels. You did 18" which is more accurate, my fault for being lazy. I used that same size for all makes. I think G/8/Z all have 18" inches, so the relative numbers are correct but not the absolute. You also used more weight than me. I used the posted vehicle weight, no drivers etc. Somehow these approximations balance out but I guess sway towards one side.

I had not seem you post before -- looks great! If I get a chance (or you :) ), I'll try to use your Mr. Yaw's formulas to make a graph for all relevant graphs, like yours, and use correct wheel sizes.

Thanks!

Took me a while to read through all this today, but here's a few things that might help:

1. Run Flat tires - they usually weigh in the range of ~60lbs a piece, that will affect a dyno run. Mini Cooper S is an example, each rim/tire weight about 60lbs.


2. DBW Throttle - Simply use an obdii tool to read the % that the throttle is open. That was a potential concern each time. I have two different obdii tools, and hopefully I can read that value if I buy an RX8.

3. Stability/traction control (name?) - is there a switch to turn it off? If it's kicking in because of a speed difference between the two rear wheels, it's probably kicking in and applying brakes?

Just a few rants off the top of my head, sorry for not knowing the car that well yet. I've been tuning for a LONG time, and I've only gone as far as sitting in the RX8. I love it, and I'm stripping the 03 GTI down to stock tonight, and going for a test drive tomorrow ;) ;)

1. the car does not have run flats

2. good thought someone else did suggest that but to my knowledge no one had done it.

3.yes, there is a switch, it can be used to completely disable the traction/stability control systems and runs were done with it off.

edit:oops! hello and welcome!

this thread is way off original course

This thread used to be about what BOOSTD 7 was going to do to address the power issue (and hopefully the mpg issue which still looms huge to many of us.) Since the thread has been hijacked so badly, I wonder if we can get back on topic. Any update on this, Boost? The Oct deadline is coming up soon and I'm still holding onto my paperwork. I appreciate any inroads you can make on our collective behalf with Mazda.

Since this continues to go off topic, I'll close it for now. BoostD can still post his updates, and we'll open it back up when appropriate.

---jps