Alright guys, well, I've finally got hooked on the turbos and I'm pretty much set on buying the Greddy turbo, however, I want to be able to push atleast 300HP to the wheels with it, and from those who have it, are only getting around 230-250HP.

I was talking to Chuck at Rotary Extreme and I am going to purchase and have them install my turbo on my 8, but I was saying what would I need to do in order to push around 300HP. He told me I'd need to use more boost. He told me that I'd need a boost controller, which would allow me to alter my boost and buy larger injectors, he said atleast 2. He told me the stock engine should be able to produce up to 350HP without "prepping" the engine.

So my question is, what will I need and how much will everything cost? This is my list so far...

Greddy Turbo - $3000
Greddy Type-S BOV - How much are these usually?
Boost Controller - Which one and what is the price on this?
Larger Injectors - Chuck said they are ~$100 each also, how many do I need?
Guages - Do I really need the guages?

So far, I'm guessing $4k for turbo+install and then about another $1k for the BOV, Boost Controller, Injectors, Guages, etc etc.

All in all I would love to be running ~300-350HP for $5k, is this possible?

greddy isn't gonna have the boost to do it stock. You are probably gonna have to lower the compression ratio and go with a diffrent turbo. You are going to need about 9-10 psi min to get that much HP.

even then you are gonna start choking on the ports. Intake is good but exhaust will probably need to be opened up a little more to flow better.

good luck

You might want to read RX8PR's thread, he made 273 HP with some tuning, and managed 300 but not really streetable so he's going to a different turbo. The greddy turbo is capable of 450 HP..."in theory"...which on a rotary is more like 300 HP.

IIRC.

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=53002

Alright guys, well, I've finally got hooked on the turbos and I'm pretty much set on buying the Greddy turbo, however, I want to be able to push atleast 300HP to the wheels with it, and from those who have it, are only getting around 230-250HP.

I was talking to Chuck at Rotary Extreme and I am going to purchase and have them install my turbo on my 8, but I was saying what would I need to do in order to push around 300HP. He told me I'd need to use more boost. He told me that I'd need a boost controller, which would allow me to alter my boost and buy larger injectors, he said atleast 2. He told me the stock engine should be able to produce up to 350HP without "prepping" the engine.

So my question is, what will I need and how much will everything cost? This is my list so far...

Greddy Turbo - $3000
Greddy Type-S BOV - How much are these usually?
Boost Controller - Which one and what is the price on this?
Larger Injectors - Chuck said they are ~$100 each also, how many do I need?
Guages - Do I really need the guages?

So far, I'm guessing $4k for turbo+install and then about another $1k for the BOV, Boost Controller, Injectors, Guages, etc etc.

All in all I would love to be running ~300-350HP for $5k, is this possible?

Greddy Type S/Type RS = $200
Boost Controller = $200-$500 (depending on how fancy you want to get. From companies like Greddy, HKS, Apexi, etc.)
Larger Injectors = $200 ($100 a piece from Greddy or RC Engineering, probably 440cc's or 550cc's).
Gauges = $400 (You definitely need a boost gauge, and it is probably good to get either an EGT or AFR gauge as well. Companies like Greddy, Defi, HKS, VDO, Autometer, etc. make them).

I have all this stuff (except the larger injectors) & was going to go to 10 psi. No, you are not going to have to get lower compression rotors or go with a different turbo. You will have to go to about 10 psi-12 psi. This really is the high end on what people have tried (except for those crazy Puerto Ricans had theirs at like 18 psi ! But they are the best with Rotary tuning). This will get you to AROUND 300 whp. Be sure to add the proper fuel support. Injectors will be a must, maybe even a secondary fuel pump, although Mazdamaniac says we have like a 255 lph fuel pump good for way past 300 hp. I'm running 7.5 psi in the rev range (6 psi on the top) right now without the boost controller. Going to go for 8 psi next time around.

The Greddy turbo is not capable of 350 hp on a rotary. It won't happen. It's way too small.

I don't know it migt be just me but I would take a conservatively tune FI'ed 8 or a properly prepped turbo 8 that would last me a while vs. an aggressively tuned one just so I can get to 350hp.

Don't get me wrong, Chuck seems to know his stuff but he said a stock engine "should" be able to handle that amount, I be a little more careful trying to go that aggressive. Just saying your folks bought you a 30k car, you should be more careful with it being that your warranty would be completely voided. Then again if I had money to replace the engine I wouldn't mind maxing it out and seeing what I can get. I would suggest you go over this thread.... http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=61225

The Greddy turbo is not capable of 350 hp on a rotary. It won't happen. It's way too small.

Is there any other turbos that spools up as quick but is capable of 350hp? The only thing I see good about the greddy turbo IS b/c of the size, which cures much of our lackluster low-mid range power but are their alternatives with this same benefit but more power?

We are already seeing around 250-260 whp at 8 psi. With another 2-4 psi we should be able to see about another 20-30 whp. He is saying 300 whp/350 hp at the flywheel. 350 whp is definitely not doable from the Greddy unit. I know you had a long explanation about this in another thread but it definitely seems doable, or at least pretty close before you have to buy another $ turbo.

IZoomZoomI,
270-280 whp from the PTP & SSR's is what I have seen so far. They are claiming 300+ whp is possible. Don't know if anybody has the guts to go for it. That is why I am thinking about staying at around 7.5-8.0 psi.

IZoomZoomI,
270-280 whp from the PTP & SSR's is what I have seen so far. They are claiming 300+ whp is possible. Don't know if anybody has the guts to go for it. That is why I am thinking about staying at around 7.5-8.0 psi.


Yea I've seen that, PTP looks promising. But again I doubt it spools up as quickly as the t6. The only way I would even think about maxing that turbo out is if I know have enough money to put in a new engine. And some people are ignorant of this fact, power w/o reliability is really nothing to boast about.

The big problem with turbos is that you sacrifice in one area to get something in another. If super fast spool is your goal, big power isn't. If you don't mind a little lag, bigger power can be had. If you want real big power, you also get real big lag. No miracles there.

Both the PTP & SSR/SFR kits are running T4 turbos. I think SSR or PTP have already commented that their power is more top end (and SSR even had a little bit of detonation problem on the top end). I really wanted my power on the low/mid range so the Greddy is perfect for me. As long as I get about 260 whp everyday driver (nice pull from 2000 rpm up) I'm happy. Not really looking for 300+ whp.

Also in doing some calculations & also seeing some examples (BMW M3's, Porsche 996's seem to be dynoing in the high 260's/270 whp) extrapolating that would bring 350 hp at the crank to about 285-290 whp (roughly 18% driveline loss).

So do you think it is worth the extra money in order to push the turbo just a little further? In short, should I buy the injectors, should I buy the boost controller and try to add a little more boost? Or just leave it at stock boost.

So do you think it is worth the extra money in order to push the turbo just a little further? In short, should I buy the injectors, should I buy the boost controller and try to add a little more boost? Or just leave it at stock boost.

That's the exact dilemma I am facing right now. I have everything except the injectors. I'm just wondering if I should try to push it to 10 psi (on maybe even a race mode on the boost controller, as you can set 2 different settings), or just be happy with a 7.5/8 psi daily driven car & not spend more money on putting the boost controller in, upgrading the injectors, etc. Not to mention you will probably have to get the Greddy support tool software so that you can fine tune the A/F mapping (that is about another $100 right there). If you ever make it down here (maybe Sevenstock), I would be more than happy to let you drive my car to see if you need more than 7.5 lbs. of boost.

dude you won't get 300whp out of Greddy without alot of work
like RG mentioned , T618Z turbo is pathetic..
just wait and get PTP or SFR already
of course if you're happy with 260-280whp, then get Greddy

OR sell the Greddy turbo (the turbo itself, not the kit) and buy a new turbo with the same flange, buy the injectors, and then tune your emanage out to a higher boost level...

the problem is that PSI is NOT what determines power... its total amount of air....

One of these days I'm going to either go scan or type up the pages on the Ideal Gas Law as well as Charles, Boyle and whatever other basic gas laws are in my General Chemistry text book... Come on people! PSI is NOT the answer....

Hardhitter,

Sorry but you would not see 350 HP at the wheel from the greddy turbo.......................

I have all that you mention: 850 cc injectors, boost controller, etc etc stand alone ECU and

more..................

I'm running 11 psi low boost and 14 psi high boost , I can't make more than 308

HP at the wheel. My problem? my greddy turbo!

You would need a bigger turbo for 350 HP and more than $5K !


Fanman,

I'm curious, How much HP you're making with you're setting?


Manuel

I think you will be surprised what 240hp feels like on this car. Its a huge improvement. You should easily be able to bump it up to 280hp or so with an exhaust boost controller and tuning. I can only imagine what that would feel like!

Mazmart is currently selling Renesis motors for $2400. Make sure to pick up one of those soon after you blow this one.

Mazmart is currently selling Renesis motors for $2400. Make sure to pick up one of those soon after you blow this one.

HAHA...I don't think mom and dad will be happy when they hear you need a new engine :rolleyes:

So do you think it is worth the extra money in order to push the turbo just a little further? In short, should I buy the injectors, should I buy the boost controller and try to add a little more boost? Or just leave it at stock boost.

What is your goal? Why do you want more power? I am not going to assume anything so i'll just ask. Do you plan Auto-X, Road Racing, Drifting, or Drag Race with this? Are you just wanting a faster daily driver?
A standard greddy turbo will make your car fast, but you will always run into another car that is faster. No matter how much HP you have, you won't have the fastest car in town.

Anyways, before i go on, and before we offer more pointless suggestions... can you tell us what your goals are with this car and the boost upgrade?

-HS

What I'm looking for is just a faster daily driver. Every now and then I might go to the drag strip and have some fun, but it's basically for a daily driver and just to have the power if I'd ever need it to have a little fun.

There is another guy on the forums in the Bay Area who has the Greddy kit and is doing all custom piping and is going to be pushing around 500HP to the wheels, but he is also spending about 15-20k on everything.

So what really is holding the Greddy turbo back from pushing more HP? Is it the piping or what is it? I'll probably talk to Chuck at Rotary Extreme and see what he can do with my wants and needs.

Anywhere around 300-350WHP for a daily driver is enough for me, I don't need it right away though, I could just install the Greddy turbo, run around 230-240WHP and then later down the road, upgrade things to push for more or will there be a limit?

This car is begging for a decent supercharger. revs + supercharger = big gains, instant boost that keeps on building.

Pretty sure it is the turbo itself. Inefficient once you get around 300. Need a bigger one.

Mazmart is currently selling Renesis motors for $2400. Make sure to pick up one of those soon after you blow this one.

that's not bad at all.

What I'm looking for is just a faster daily driver. Every now and then I might go to the drag strip and have some fun, but it's basically for a daily driver and just to have the power if I'd ever need it to have a little fun.

There is another guy on the forums in the Bay Area who has the Greddy kit and is doing all custom piping and is going to be pushing around 500HP to the wheels, but he is also spending about 15-20k on everything.

So what really is holding the Greddy turbo back from pushing more HP? Is it the piping or what is it? I'll probably talk to Chuck at Rotary Extreme and see what he can do with my wants and needs.

Anywhere around 300-350WHP for a daily driver is enough for me, I don't need it right away though, I could just install the Greddy turbo, run around 230-240WHP and then later down the road, upgrade things to push for more or will there be a limit?

if you are gonna do it do it right and do it once.

the greddy turbo is TINY. It's not big enough to move enough air. you need a bigger turbo. You spin the little turbo like 15,000 rpms and it COOKS. the air gets super hot and intercooler is only so much. Since there is no overlap like there was in rx7/fd engines you cannot scavenge and you must SHOVE the air in now. Fisher price turbo aint gonna cut it. With a bigger turbo and more air you are gonna need more fuel too. to get 300+ hp out of this motor is gonna take some work until the aftermarket ( which is finally starting to get going ) catches up.

Mazmart is currently selling Renesis motors for $2400. Make sure to pick up one of those soon after you blow this one.

$2400...Not bad ! Maybe I will try for 12 psi after all ;)

Anywhere around 300-350WHP for a daily driver is enough for me, I don't need it right away though, I could just install the Greddy turbo, run around 230-240WHP and then later down the road, upgrade things to push for more or will there be a limit?

Really is up to you & your wallet. If you are thinking about maxing out at right around 280 whp (maybe 290-300 whp, because dammit I'm going to prove people wrong ! :D ) for about $4000-$5000 vs maybe getting to 320 whp (what Chuck said) with the T4 turbo kits but dropping in the $6000-$7000 range. Up to you is the power difference (280 whp vs. 320 whp) is worth the price difference (let's assume $2000).

Manuel,

Dyno was down last time I went to my mechanic. The time before I was running 232 whp with 6 psi (4 psi at the top end), but when I brought it back last time he found 2 big leaks (fix them) & also turned the boost up to 7.5 psi (6 psi on the top end). I am running heavy (i.e. bling) 19" rims, but am looking at around 240-250 whp (thinking about buying a set of ultralite 18"). Also had a C02 spray system installed. Sprays my intercooler with C02 cools it down big time. I'm am bringing it in to have a few other parts put in (& boost turned up to 8 psi) so I will dyno it then.

putting in a larger turbo will be touph with the greddy system. the location of the turbo really limits how big you can go from what ive seen.

also, the PTP is using a t4/t3 turbo. add that to a rotary engine that moves as much air as a 3.0 liter v6, you shouldnt experiance too much turbolag. if i were you, i would just wait for the ptp. it will be less of a struggle to reach your goals and only costs about $2000 more the greddy (IF they deliver).

hey FANMAN, who does your work? know anybody good out here in rancho cucamonga?

denward

I ll drop arrounf 270 at wheels minimum right now i hope...I ll let you know...
all the greddy extra are needed imo...

The only thing now is to update the map with mazdamaniac's or not???this is the question!!

Good luck mate..
But don't push the turbine hard arround 300whp is a good number but don't try to make it more..You ll probably lose whatever you have made so far...Buy a ssr turbo and you ll save some bucks!!

Fanman,

Basically you have all the parts that I had before my last upgrade,
It looks that you just needs to work on a better tuning..............

Keep working and you would find the extra HP..........

This is only a joke:

send you're car to Galdy, my mechanic
or pay him the air ticket!

Manuel

hey FANMAN, who does your work? know anybody good out here in rancho cucamonga?

denward

Works great. About what I thought would be the perfect RX8. Low/mid range has some pull now (vs. stock). I don't know anybody that far out. Everybody I know/have heard of (my mechanic, Tripoint, Rotary Reliability) are all out in the San Fernando Valley or Orange County.

Where's your heavy duty clutch hardhitter?

You need one of those unless you want to fry your stock one and maybe the maunal gear box too.

I just picked up the new issue of Import Tuner and it has our own Greddy RX-8 in the issue, however, on the back, it is a full page add for the RX-8 Greddy Turbo and it states the following specs

Stock HP - 202.2hp@8200
Greddy HP - 260.9@7800

Stock Tq - 125.7ft/lbs@5650
Greddy Tq - 176.3ft/lbs@5600

260.9hp seems to be a lot more than what all the other 8's on the forum is pushing, I have no idea if they added anything else or not, but is this what the turbo should be pushing?

If I could push near 300HP, I'd be happy, for those who have added the turbo on, can you feel the difference? I just want to be able to really feel the power difference to make sure that it was a well 4-5k spent.

260.9hp seems to be a lot more than what all the other 8's on the forum is pushing, I have no idea if they added anything else or not, but is this what the turbo should be pushing?

The number isn't the same, but the gain roughly is. Finding a stock RX-8 to dyno over 200whp, or even much over 180whp, is not an easy task. That's why most people dyno with the GReddy at closer to 240 -- they're starting out 20whp less than GReddy's car supposedly did.

Yeah, that is true & usually the tq. figure is closer to 190 lb.-ft. of tq. That hp figure is impressive though.

HH, you will notice a substantial difference between an NA & a turbo RX8. Like I said, this is the way this car should have come. With the turbo I feel like I can own this car for years (Usually I switch cars every 2-3 ears) & be perfectly happy with. More balanced now. Great chassis, great power (now).

RX8PR

From what I see, you are running probably the highest rwhp to your 8 from the Greddy kit. Do you think I'd be able to run the same kind of power you are running?

I'm thinking of just spending the 4k for the turbo/install and then about $250 for the BOV and then from there slowly build up getting other components, boost controller, injectors, etc etc and hopefully slowly my power will gain.

How have you been able to reach that much power to your wheels, what components did you buy and how is everything holding up?

I maked 273 HP at the wheel (235 torque) with the greddy kit and a lot of tuning.......
on that time I also have SR pulleys, straight pipe, borla, no IGR, Flywheel & clutch, etc.

With this same setting or other settings you can make the same power, you just need a good TUNER and a good MECHANIC.

Now I have 850 cc injectors, boost controller, ECU (top secret), fuel pump and external wastegate and the car makes 305 HP at high boost......... we can make more HP with a bigger turbine, at high boost the greddy turbine it's out of the efficiency curve the air
is to hot and not all the cfm that you need to make higher HP gains.......

The next step is to install a bigger turbine I'm thinking on the garrett GT35/40R.

But first I need to sale my actual greddy kit, I have a guy interested in puerto Rico but

If any one is interested I'm asking $2,300 for the greddy kit including the HKS BOV and the external wastegate. Tell everyone!

Manuel

Slowly but surely you are getting there. GOOD LUCK!

I maked 273 HP at the wheel (235 torque) with the greddy kit and a lot of tuning.......
on that time I also have SR pulleys, straight pipe, borla, no IGR, Flywheel & clutch, etc.

With this same setting or other settings you can make the same power, you just need a good TUNER and a good MECHANIC.

Now I have 850 cc injectors, boost controller, ECU (top secret), fuel pump and external wastegate and the car makes 305 HP at high boost......... we can make more HP with a bigger turbine, at high boost the greddy turbine it's out of the efficiency curve the air
is to hot and not all the cfm that you need to make higher HP gains.......

The next step is to install a bigger turbine I'm thinking on the garrett GT35/40R.

But first I need to sale my actual greddy kit, I have a guy interested in puerto Rico but

If any one is interested I'm asking $2,300 for the greddy kit including the HKS BOV and the external wastegate. Tell everyone!

Manuel
Your car must feel like a rocket! :D

Feels and sounds really good but for our standards with rotary engines
is not finished yet...............


Manuel

[QUOTE=Fanman]Both the PTP & SSR/SFR kits are running T4 turbos. I think SSR or PTP have already commented that their power is more top end (and SSR even had a little bit of detonation problem on the top end).


Actually, this is incorrect.We had detonation with the onset of boost at a really low rpm.The problem was alleviated with the tuning we did.BTW, we have another RX-8 turbo up and running and should make it to the dyno this week.This car will easily exceed 300 @ the wheels at a modest 8 psi of boost. I am expectiing close to 325 @ the wheels. All turbo. Stock motor. Stay tuned.

Turbo Tim, how much does your kit cost? What is needed, etc etc. On the site you guys are asking around 7k. Is it 7k and you are done with everything or do you still need to purchase BOV, controller, etc etc

The power is there..........................................

My mechanic works on another RX-8 with the same settings than mine the only different is the turbine, I have the greddy and the other one has a GT35. He maked 392 HP at the wheel, stock motor..................
Now they're porting the engine!
This week he is busy working on a 3 genearation RX7 that he use for circuit race here in Puerto Rico. On a few weeks he would finish the RX8 porting job......

Sorry but If you're looking for 350 HP you need to spend more than $4K.......


Manuel

Yes I understand that, I'm just probably going to buy a turbo first and then slowly build the car up to more and more HP. I cannot do it all at once as I do not have the money to spend 7-8k at one time.

If my goal was to reach 300whp, would I be able to do that with the Greddy sooner or later? I am sure 300rwhp is going to be plenty of power for me and most cars.

I just want to be able to stay up with some modified STI's 350Z's S2k's, S4's etc when I need to. I know the 8 isn't made to be like the RX-7, but if I could spend the 4K now to buy/install the Greddy and then later down the line if I want am able to push 300rwhp with the Greddy kit, then I'm happy with that.

With the greddy kit you would be near 240-250 HP,
Next, find some more money and then, you would get more ponies.............

good luck!

Manuel

I think what he wants to know, is if he buys the Greddy kit, will he be able to get 300hp out of it down the road with more mods. The answer is yes, Manuel got 309 out of the Greddy, no reason you can't do the same. 300 is about the max though, then you need to either upgrade the compressor wheel or change turbos entirely.

I suspect, that the line of diminishing returns is around 280hp though. Meaning it should be real easy to get the Greddy to make around 280, and then require a significantly increased amount of money per horsepower beyond that. A full exhaust and boost controler, maybe injectors also should get you to 280. Although, since I haven't done it, this is pure speculation.

Someone in Greece pulled 290 with de-cat(midpipe no cat)greddy sp2 catback,ur pulleys and greddy turbo...magazine numbers which mag owns a great dyno here in Greece...........

I ll drop arrounf 270 at wheels minimum right now i hope...I ll let you know...
all the greddy extra are needed imo...

The only thing now is to update the map with mazdamaniac's or not???this is the question!!

Good luck mate..
But don't push the turbine hard arround 300whp is a good number but don't try to make it more..You ll probably lose whatever you have made so far...Buy a ssr turbo and you ll save some bucks!!
Not to hijack a thread but I would say go ahead and load Jeff's map, I did and the car runs so much better than with the latest stock map from Greddy. I don't understand why, I am a newbie, but I know my 8 does not feel sick anymore, for a while i thought she was going to die. his map took care of that.

The only mods I have right now is RP high-flow cat and Greddy SP2 exhaust performance wise. And yes, I am basically asking, will I be able to pull around 300rwhp as a daily driver later down the line with the Greddy and after installing the Greddy Turbo with ~240HP, will it be able to stay up with some of the other modified cars out there

Yes, you will be able to pull 300rwhp (or very close) with the GReddy with enough work, tuning, and additional parts.

Will you be able to stay up with some of the other modified cars out there? Depends what car and what mods. That's a pretty wide-reaching statement.

After you get up to 300rwhp Will you beat a stock STi? More than likely. Will you beat a 350Z with a couple thousand in mods? Probably. Will you beat a 350Z with the same amount of money put into it as you have your car? Doubtful.

With just 240rwhp you wouldn't touch an STi, you'd beat a stock WRX, might beat one with $1000 in mods, and it'd be a driver's race against a lightly-modded 350Z, but only if he wasn't on slicks.

Some of the cars I hang around are highly modded, 400awhp Audi S4, 700rwhp 350Z, and then some really real fast Camero's/Mustangs and then a 500rwhp 3rd Gen RX-7.

Only thing is with these guys, they are all rich and their parents pay for all of their mods. I know I could probably be able to push close to some of that power, however, I definatly do not have the job or money in order to make that power all at once.

I basically want to be able to gain respect by having atleast some power on the 8, because I hate when people talk trash about it saying it was a waste of money and the 8 deserves so much more than that.

I do not race like these guys do, they go race on the streets at night, which in my eyes is stupid. I do not race on the streets, I want to go to a track and do it just to have some fun, and if someone wants to play around a little while I'm just cruising, I'll have the power to keep up with some of the cars around here.

But like you said, more power = more money

Well, right now, nothing short of a Triple-Rotor swap is gonna have you hanging with those guys. And you surely don't have that kind of money.

240rwhp should have you doing mid-13s. So that should give you an idea of what you can hang with; which would be a lot. 300rwhp should have you pulled high-12s. Which would outrun just about anything produced in significant numbers and certainly surprise the hell out of anyone who thought you were 'slow'.

That's exactly what I want Sigma, I just want my car to basically look stock on the outside so they think nothing is on it, and then when they do want to have a little fun, I'll surprise them or atleast try and keep up with my friends.

So in short, I guess I will pay the 4k right now to get the Turbo/installed and then later on down the road, slowly build up to 300rwhp. Once I'm out of college, have my college paid off and have a steady job, then I might go ahead and push for more power, but in the mean time, from what I am hearing 300rwhp is enough to get the 8 moving pretty quick.

I don't agree with the idea that the only way the renesis is going to make power is with a tri rotor swap...

Its just that noones taken the risk and slapped a LARGE turbo on the RX8 yet... believe me, its got more potential than people give it credit...

I do not race like these guys do, they go race on the streets at night, which in my eyes is stupid. ........................... and if someone wants to play around a little while I'm just cruising, I'll have the power to keep up with some of the cars around here.

Did you just call yourself stupid? :( :confused:

On a serious note, even if your just cruising, don't play around on the street. The Greddy is capable of doing mid 13's once tuned properly. Even at my track, any car that runs 13.99 and faster 1/4miles , the driver will need a helmet.

Say, for instance, that you achieve 300 or 350 HP to the wheels...
Do you think the rest of the "stock" drive train could handle this increase in power?

How about a dual turbo (Like my 93 RX7).
It seemed (to my recollection) that my 7 had fairly smooth acceleration all the way to red-line with her dual setup.

I don't agree with the idea that the only way the renesis is going to make power is with a tri rotor swap...

Its just that noones taken the risk and slapped a LARGE turbo on the RX8 yet... believe me, its got more potential than people give it credit...


Well, that's why I qualified my statement with "right now". I'm sure the Renesis has a load of potential, but "right now" nothing's available. And if something is available no one's got the balls to try it yet.

Sorry but there is already a 393 HP RX8.
I mention it before........................
:D

Manuel

Yeah, I know, but that's not available in a kit that someone can buy off the shelf, install over the weekend, and drive to work on Monday morning. And even that if you got it on the road wouldn't hang with the cars that he listed that his friends have.

I think that his friends cars are not maked with a kit buyed on a shelf
probably they spend a lot of money........................

He said,
"they are all rich and their parents pay for all of their mods"

that explain all................


Manuel

Ok, I had a talk with Rick from Rick's Rotary Shop and he really helped me out with informing me about the turbo and the needs of pushing the Renesis and all of that.

I've decided for now, I am just going to get the Greddy installed with a BOV. Now, I'm debating on which BOV to get. I know there is a HKS, and three types of Greddy BOV's. I was looking at the Type-S from Greddy, but I saw the new Type-RS from Greddy and was wondering about that one. I tried a search and couldn't find anything, so if someone could help me out with the BOV's that would be great. Do they sound different? Is one better than the other? Is one louder than the other? etc etc.

I've decided for now, I am just going to get the Greddy installed with a BOV. Now, I'm debating on which BOV to get. I know there is a HKS, and three types of Greddy BOV's. I was looking at the Type-S from Greddy, but I saw the new Type-RS from Greddy and was wondering about that one. I tried a search and couldn't find anything, so if someone could help me out with the BOV's that would be great. Do they sound different? Is one better than the other? Is one louder than the other? etc etc.

I have the Greddy Type S on mine & it works fine. The difference between the Type S & Type RS is the valve opening on the Type S is 37 mm, & on the Type RS it is 40 mm. But given that we are not pushing very much boost through our cars either is fine. The Type RS is actually quieter than the Type S. The HKS SSV is a very fine BOV as well.

Say, for instance, that you achieve 300 or 350 HP to the wheels...
Do you think the rest of the "stock" drive train could handle this increase in power?

How about a dual turbo (Like my 93 RX7).
It seemed (to my recollection) that my 7 had fairly smooth acceleration all the way to red-line with her dual setup.
The 3rd gen RX7 was a twin sequential setup and put out 255hp. I don't know about stock, but MOST of the 3rd gens that have been modified and still have the stock twins dont have that smooth of a power curve at all. If you get on that pedal, when the first turbo spins up (<3k rpm), it's gonna throw you back and it's gonna do it again when the second one spools up. I personally thought that was a lot of fun :)

Rotarygod will tell you that that system is far too complicated. It's beautiful to think about but I'm still just a beginner so he's probably 100% correct. The other problem is where to put the twins in this car. You'd have a hell of a time finding space under the hood for them without relocating everything and it's brother to the trunk and your expense just went way up.

Twin turbos aren't the answer for our renesis... The only reason twin's are needed are in V6 and V8 applications and that's mainly due to exhaust manifold reasons... Twin turbos mess with the torque curve, add complexity, and add heat...

Have you thought about a new clutch, or even gauges yet? Most will at least get gauges so they can know what their system is doing. Maybe you should wait a week or two so you can get those installed at the same time.

Yes, I've been looking at guages/pods right now. I know I want to get the Defi guages cause they match perfectly with the RX-8's guages, now where can I find the pod? I don't have navigation, so I want them to be where the navigation would usually be. I've seen I think Adrian-1's pods and I loved them.

EDIT: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&category=46100&item=7985606246 this is basically exactly what I want, but $400+ for just the pod is a little more than I want to spend. (I don't know if this auction includes to guages or not, if it does, then the price would make more sense)

That price doens't include the gauges. That's the PTP Gauge Pod and $400 ain't bad, since it goes for $550 (I believe) and the waiting list is rather long if I recall correctly.

I'm going to be putting up some Greddy gauges soon. Really cheap. Might not match the interior but at 40%-50% off.....and hell, everything will be Greddy.

I still think the PTP pod looks the cleanest, but it is a little pricey. You pay for what you get though. I also liked the pod that fit where the cigarette lighter is, but I guess there were problems shipping it from Japan.

Well since the guages are a little more than I expected (~$200 per guage) do I really need the other guages right now. The main one I really need is the boost reading right? Don't know where I would place the pod though.

$79 for my pod. (http://www.cox-internet.com/adrian-1/images/RX8/greddy/95.jpg) Search or PM me on how to get it.

How is that stuck on the dash? 3M tape?

I could probably make a fiberglass that will mold that into the dash too, maybe if people are intersted, I could mass produce some for cheaper.

Well since the guages are a little more than I expected (~$200 per guage) do I really need the other guages right now. The main one I really need is the boost reading right? Don't know where I would place the pod though.

I would definitely get a boost gauge. Honestly I would get an Exhaust Gas Temperature gauge or Air/Fuel gauge as well. My EGT has saved my bacon a few times. Told me I was riding the turbo too hard for too long & the engine was heating up.

Let me know what everybody thinks :

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=66326

I'm trying to part everything together so I will know the final cost before I go and buy everything. I need help finding the lowest price on a Greddy Type-S BOV and Defi guages/pod.
This is my list so far

Turbo - $3000
BOV - I'm guessing $200?
Turbo Guage/Pod - Around $250-$300?
Install everything / tuning by Rotary Extreme - $1000

So I need to find the best/cheapest place to find Type-S BOV and Defi BF boost guage and a pod for mounting it. Any help would be appreciated.

Cheapest place I found for the Type S BOV is :

http://www.city-speed.com/webstore/eng_GReddy_BlowOff.html

at $164.

This is where I ordered my turbo from. I don't think they are an authorized Greddy Re-seller, but you should be OK with just the BOV (had problems getting a missing piece of piping for my kit). also remember you need to get the aluminum flange to mount onto your piping so that you can fit a BOV onto your turbo kit.

In seeing that the SFR Turbo kit is pushing around 280HP @ 7PSI, I began to think about something. The SFR kit is ~7.5K + install, the Greddy is 4K installed. Greddy puts out 220-240@5PSI while SFR puts out 281@7PSI right?

Now the question is, with the extra $3.5k I save by getting the Greddy, if I push my Greddy kit to 7PSI, won't I be making about the same amount of power the SFR kit is making? It doesn't cost $3.5k to buy a boost controller, injectors, and tuning time.

The only downfall I see with getting the Greddy is that if I do make that 280HP with the Greddy, that is where the power potential stops, and where the potential stops with the Greddy, the SFR kit begins. If I would push more boost with the SFR kit, who knows what kind of power it'll make, and then again, who knows what kind of problems with the engine.

Took me a while to find a question in that paragraph. You would be making the max amount of power with the greddy kit. But it depends what type of turbo you want. Ones smaller with quicker response the other has more boost potential for overall peak hp. Overall do you just want hp for bragging rights, or quicker boost for everyday stoplight to stoplight driving. Don't even think about over greddy's 280whp if you can barely afford guages for the ride, b/c it would probably cost more to do some engine reinforcement.

In seeing that the SFR Turbo kit is pushing around 280HP @ 7PSI, I began to think about something. The SFR kit is ~7.5K + install, the Greddy is 4K installed. Greddy puts out 220-240@5PSI while SFR puts out 281@7PSI right?

Now the question is, with the extra $3.5k I save by getting the Greddy, if I push my Greddy kit to 7PSI, won't I be making about the same amount of power the SFR kit is making? It doesn't cost $3.5k to buy a boost controller, injectors, and tuning time.

The only downfall I see with getting the Greddy is that if I do make that 280HP with the Greddy, that is where the power potential stops, and where the potential stops with the Greddy, the SFR kit begins. If I would push more boost with the SFR kit, who knows what kind of power it'll make, and then again, who knows what kind of problems with the engine.

Pretty close, except that the Greddy kit is making 240 whp@around 6.5-7 psi. To get to the 260-280 whp range you are talking about the boost controller, larger injectors,etc (probably 10 psi). You are right it won't be $3.5K for this other stuff, but you are pretty much maxed out. The question is if you are looking for 300+ whp, is it worth an extra $3K (Assume $2.5K difference (after boost controller, injectors, additional tuning for the Greddy)+ $500 for upping the boost/tuning, etc past 287 whp on the SFR kit) for you to get there.

Also, PTP Motorsports is supposed to be coming out with their Turbo kit. Looks pretty slick & is based on a T3/T4 turbo design, with supposed numbers in the 270 whp range. Might get you 300+ whp. No firm #'s on pricing though. Maybe Jon might have more information. IzoomZoomI is right though that the power band may be quite different on these larger turbo kits than the Greddy. I think the other companies already commented that a lot of the power will hit in the upper rev range (like a bit more standard turbo kits for other cars).

Fanman, I have the EVC (electronic valve controller) or boost controller. If i buy the injectors what else do i need to go with higher psi? I am running at 7.25 right now...

Pretty close, except that the Greddy kit is making 240 whp@around 6.5-7 psi. To get to the 260-280 whp range you are talking about the boost controller, larger injectors,etc (probably 10 psi). You are right it won't be $3.5K for this other stuff, but you are pretty much maxed out. The question is if you are looking for 300+ whp, is it worth an extra $3K (Assume $2.5K difference (after boost controller, injectors, additional tuning for the Greddy)+ $500 for upping the boost/tuning, etc past 287 whp on the SFR kit) for you to get there.

Also, PTP Motorsports is supposed to be coming out with their Turbo kit. Looks pretty slick & is based on a T3/T4 turbo design, with supposed numbers in the 270 whp range. Might get you 300+ whp. No firm #'s on pricing though. Maybe Jon might have more information.

Fanman, I have the EVC (electronic valve controller) or boost controller. If i buy the injectors what else do i need to go with higher psi? I am running at 7.25 right now...

From what I have seen that is about it. According to Jeff (MM) fuel system is good past 300+ hp. He might want to chime in on this. Manuel changed out his whole fuel system, & put in external wastegate but he is pushing past 300+ whp (309 I believe).

That is the thing Rick from Ricks Rotary Shop was telling me that was great about the Greddy was that the turbo kicks in at around 3,000rpm. Basically, I am using this for every day driving, I always shift around 3k for driving around the city in keeping my MPG high, but every now and then when I want to have some fun I rev it up. On the freeway, I cruise a little below 4k @ about 76-80MPH.

With the turbo, what are the rpm's you usually cruise at? For example, with the turbo, if I cruise at the 4k I usually do on the freeway, will my speed be higher? Meaning, if I have the turbo and I am going 76-80MPH, my rpm's will be lower right, with lower rpm's won't I save gas? Sounds strange...

Rick was also talking about how the Greddy adds about 40% more torque to the car. He says that the torque alone makes the Greddy kit worth it. He was saying he was a torque guy saying that he loves the feeling of sort of whiplash when he really steps on the gas, it pushes him against the seat, the kind of power that should of came with the stock 8.

From what I have seen that is about it. According to Jeff (MM) fuel system is good past 300+ hp. He might want to chime in on this. Manuel changed out his whole fuel system, & put in external wastegate but he is pushing past 300+ whp (309 I believe).

SO it means that if you install the injectors only you can put it up to at least 9psi without doing anything to the engine?? (stronger apex seals or something?) Do i need anything else to tell the fuel system to inject more fuel or the injectors do it themselves automatically?? Maybe change the emanage map to get more fuel in there eh?
Thanks . I want to go at least 9 psi.

PD. Where can I buy the larger injectors?

[QUOTE=HardHitter]T

With the turbo, what are the rpm's you usually cruise at? For example, with the turbo, if I cruise at the 4k I usually do on the freeway, will my speed be higher? Meaning, if I have the turbo and I am going 76-80MPH, my rpm's will be lower right, with lower rpm's won't I save gas? Sounds strange...

QUOTE]
no you rpms will not change with a turbo or anything else. gearing is mechanical. it is what it is. at 74 mph your are going to turning~ 3750 rpm. i dont care if you have a turbo supercharger on conair hairdryer hooked up to your motor.

beers

That is the thing Rick from Ricks Rotary Shop was telling me that was great about the Greddy was that the turbo kicks in at around 3,000rpm. Basically, I am using this for every day driving, I always shift around 3k for driving around the city in keeping my MPG high, but every now and then when I want to have some fun I rev it up. On the freeway, I cruise a little below 4k @ about 76-80MPH.

With the turbo, what are the rpm's you usually cruise at? For example, with the turbo, if I cruise at the 4k I usually do on the freeway, will my speed be higher? Meaning, if I have the turbo and I am going 76-80MPH, my rpm's will be lower right, with lower rpm's won't I save gas? Sounds strange...

Rick was also talking about how the Greddy adds about 40% more torque to the car. He says that the torque alone makes the Greddy kit worth it. He was saying he was a torque guy saying that he loves the feeling of sort of whiplash when he really steps on the gas, it pushes him against the seat, the kind of power that should of came with the stock 8.

Pretty much the way I drive. I love it for the fact that I usually on pretty mellow, ut when I lay into it I picks up fast. Love that the tq. rush comes in at 2500 rpm. Cruise the freeways at about 75-80 mph.

One down side is that a bit of boost at 4000 rpm, so you have to accelerate & de-accel. a bit so that the heat from the turbo/boost isn't constant. Gas mileage went from about 200 miles about town (mix city/highway) to about 185 miles. 250 miles on a tank of just freeway to about 230 miles.

SO it means that if you install the injectors only you can put it up to at least 9psi without doing anything to the engine?? (stronger apex seals or something?) Do i need anything else to tell the fuel system to inject more fuel or the injectors do it themselves automatically?? Maybe change the emanage map to get more fuel in there eh?
Thanks . I want to go at least 9 psi.

PD. Where can I buy the larger injectors?

I don't think an extra pound or two (9) will hurt too bad. It is when you are going to 10+ that you will have the issues of needing the other equipment.

Greddy makes injectors. Check RC Engineering as well. They specialize in injectors.

You guys have to stop thinking in terms of PSI as far as power goes... Increased PSI is nothing if the charge air is REALLY hot and contains less molecules of oxygen... You need to be concerned with CFM of oxygen not psi...

I don't see the appeal of full boost by 3000rpm....

That just means that you'll have less efficiency at higher RPMS... If you're going to turbocharge you really ought to by Corky Bell's book... even if you only want to do the Greddy setup. While some of it is really outdated... the theory of turbocharging is explained...

I don't really mind less efficiency on the high end. I don't really care about high end/peak power. If they had rolled out multiple roots/screw type SC's for this car I would have looked at them extensively. My main goal for my car was increased midrange/daily drivability. For that getting boost at 3000 rpm is perfect.

I understand what you are saying about CFM & turbo efficiency. The IC on this kit is rated for higher than the stock levels though. Not to mention I will be using a C02 system to further cool the incoming charge air. I will let people know a before/after dyno somewhat soon (once the dyno shop near my mechanic fixes their dyno).

But manuel has shown power, hence cfm/mass continues to increase up to about 14psi with the Greddy kit. For a given turbo turning up the boost is the only way to increase CFM, unless you go injecting something to cool the charge.

To get more than 300 HP we need to increase the CFM,
with a bigger Turbo you can have more CFM at lower boost.............
With the greddy turbo on my car at 14 psi boost you need to touch the intercooler, the air is too hot at that boost.
To supply more CFM to my RX8 on August 1 I'm goin to begin the process to install a Garrett GT35/40R I have plans to run it between 12-14 psi. I really don't know how much HP we're goin to get.


Manuel

Are you guys going to try to fit the Garrett in the same location as the greddy compressor or are you pretty much redoing everything custom?

We need to make a custom manifold,
I'm thinking on use the battery place to put
the Turbo.
The other option is cut the transversal of the compact and fit over there
I friend of mine all ready do it this option on his car.

Manuel

gt35r :)

Why did you decide on this option instead of trying to replace the Greddy turbo internals? Is the housing just that small that the turbine wheel can't be clipped and the compressor wheel replaced?

I can replace the greddy internals is not expensive but I really prefer the ball bearing option. Remember, I already changed all the fuel system thinking on a bigger turbine in
the future. I'm goin also to change to a cable throttle........................

Manuel

Speaking of bigger turbo's... what's everyone's opinion on what the 8 needs for top end power? I want at least 310-320 at the wheels... low RPM boost is not an issue to me...

I don't know where to start researching the larger turbos... anyone got good companies to buy from?

garrett :D

they also make all there compressor maps avaliable to the public :D

jsut match up your cars engines specs (cmf etc...) and run with it :D

Speaking of bigger turbo's... what's everyone's opinion on what the 8 needs for top end power? I want at least 310-320 at the wheels... low RPM boost is not an issue to me...

I don't know where to start researching the larger turbos... anyone got good companies to buy from?

Maybe a T3/T4 or T4 turbo. Turbonetics seems pretty good place to get a turbo. I wouldn't mind spending money on an upgraded turbo, but wonder are there any with the small housing size of the current Greddy Turbo, but better internals, that will flow more CFM. Also, how much tweaking would we have to do for the fuel. I am going into my mechanic this week. i'll talk to him. He knows the guys over at Turbonetics pretty well. Maybe they can work with him on this.

garrett :D

they also make all there compressor maps avaliable to the public :D

jsut match up your cars engines specs (cmf etc...) and run with it :D

For turbo maps for rotaries, assume you have a 3.6 liter engine in terms of flow. That's what works out best. Trust me on that one.

the gt35r is just really nicely matched to the 13b. i'd go for the smaller hotside on the renesis, and the larger on the earlier 13b's.

Rotary God, I remember reading your post on what size our engine actually is. I remember you mentioned it was 1.3L X 3 = 3.9L because of 3 rotor faces, and then you have to account for the fact that it is a 6 stroke, making it a 2.6L. Why are you saying 3.6L now?

Rotary God, I remember reading your post on what size our engine actually is. I remember you mentioned it was 1.3L X 3 = 3.9L because of 3 rotor faces, and then you have to account for the fact that it is a 6 stroke, making it a 2.6L. Why are you saying 3.6L now?

Re-read his post. He's only talking about the specific purpose of sizing a turbo. He's saying, regardless of everything else, this engine eats air like a 3.6 liter piston engine, so feed it like one.

Peace
policy

In his original article he is also talking about the engine size for turbo selection purposes. I think he may have made a typo and put 3.6 instead of 2.6. I don't see how 3.6L would come out of any calculation.