results are interesting

<a href="http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB25&Number=67426638&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1">thread at freshalloy.com</a>

Good link, thanks for the info.

this will make it up

http://www.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=107961

There is now way we want our car to be compared with ugly G35 coupe skyline. 350Z yes, but skyline coupe, no way!!

The coupe will not even come to most part of the world other than USA, it simply will not sell. Only 350Z is the closest to RX8 in terms of handling and cool factor. One other thing to remember too, I think Japanese RX8 is not using the sport suspension that is standard in UK, Australia and maybe USA. Maybe thats is why the roll is pretty bad. Also with Best Motoring, the good and senior driver like Motoharu Kurosawa which is most likely to win if you give him any car, is sponsored by Honda. Just look at their race suit and you will know what I am talking about.

Best Motoring as cool, but they are way too biased with their NSX and S2000. Other publications around the world said that S2000 electronic steering is too awful to believe. S2000 owners said S2000 handling is fantastic, also why they buy it in the first place. On the other hand, no publication can find any fault with the Miata other than underpowered engine of course. My point is they can say anything they want, but if we like the car, so what!!! I love the look of RX8, I put my order already, if the handling is as good as the Miata I will be happy.

Originally posted by Winning
There is now way we want our car to be compared with ugly G35 coupe skyline. 350Z yes, but skyline coupe, no way!!

the G35 is one of the best cars to compare the RX-8 with considering the 4 seating capacity of both cars and its sports car attitude...and i completely disagree with you, i think the G35 is drop dead sexy, especially in black...IMO, it's one of the best looking sports coupes on the market along with the 350Z...if it had the novelty 4 door suicides and wasn't priced so much, i'd definitely get one

and even now that ppl have actually raced the cars on track, enthusiasts still can't believe that the RX-8 isn't God's gift to man...still denying that the RX-8 isn't the best car and should be able to beat any car any day...unfortunately that's not the case...i wish it were but it's not...

I typed these on the other thread in Media section.... but I'll do alittle cut and paste in case members missed it.

Here is the summary of teh video. Please don't flame me for the content, I just tried to translate the video the best I can.

RX-8 performed marginal compared to the other cars. The test was in several segments:

Twisty mountain circuit of Gunma:
Cosmos, original RX-7, FD, and RX-8. They commented the RX-8 handled well, but rolls a lot and it's not powerful when coming out of corners. Fun to drive though, which is important.

Accleration: [RX-8 vs G35C vs BMW 330] They seemed to have dropped the clutch on the RX-8 around 6500 rpm or so. The 0-400m acceleration was slower than G35 and BMW 330 SMG as expected. G35C came out on top. They mentioned the BMW engine was smooth, G35C engine was impressively powerful and had loads of torque, RX-8 engine was rev happy but underpowered in comparison.

High speed (100mph+) slalom test: RX-8 performed pretty well. There was some roll, but excellent weight distribution helps the RX-8 stay stable. The G35C was the best in bunch when it comes to high speed manuvers, grip and stability. which impressed the drivers. The 330 was iffy at high speed, felt unstable.

AutoX type tight course: [RX-8, 350Z, G35C, BMW330 SMG, S2000) Tight short course consist of a 270 hairpin, 120 hairpin, slalom, and tight corners. RX-8 was rated to be the 2nd most fun to drive car right between S2000 and G35C. The 350Z and BMW got dogged in 'fun to drive' segment. S2000 pulled off the best time and most fun to drive honor. G35 and 350Z understeered at limit, but testers mentioned they couldn't completely defeat the VDC system unlike the Mazda and Honda. (They should have asked the Z or G forum how to do that first) Time: BMW fastest, it had no LSD, no drifting, all grip = fastest time. However, it was not a fun car to drive. G35C beat the RX-8 and 350Z on the tight course. They indicated the soft suspension of the RX-8 created too much roll around slaloms and corners. Overall they said the RX-8 was fun to drive for a 4 door.

Tsukuba Track 5 lap race: [Grid: Miata RS, RX-8, Integra R, S2000, G35C, Subaru WRX] Grid set up based on TORQUE to weight ratio to give the Miata, Integra R and RX-8 some breathing room at the start. RX-8 passed Miata and was in 1st place briefly. S2000 beat the RX-8 in acceleration, cornering, braking and handling. Then the RX-8 got passed by the WRX and G35C on the straights as well. The rolly suspension of RX-8 and the lack torque made a huge difference on the course. By the 3rd lap or so, the RX-8 was passed by the Integra (RSX w/ 220hp) coming out of a corner. The race finished with S2000 on top, followed by the G35C, Subaru WRX, Integra R, RX-8 and Miata RS was about half lap behind everyone else. Very entertaining video, the G35C driver was going nuts and drifting out of corners while everyone else was taking the proper racing line.

Overall the drivers liked the RX-8, and said it was a fun to drive car for a car that can carry 4 adults and costing almost $6000 USD less than the G35C. (in Japan anyways) They were impressed with the cornering speed of thr RX-8, which was very good consider it was using the Potenza 040 tires. (same as JDM G35C, 350Z and Integra) They also commented on the generous headroom in the backseat and the nice deep trunk in the back. (Without spare) Despite the result of the tests, the RX-8 was admired by the drivers as being a daring attempt by Mazda to bring 4 door sport cars to a new level.

Finally, they tested the 210hp automatic RX-8, said the paddle shifter is nice, but power is really lacking.

Originally posted by BRx8


if it had the novelty 4 door suicides and wasn't priced so much, i'd definitely get one



Personally I think the G35C would look horrible with suicide doors. Also, a base G35C 6MT isn't priced too different from a similarly equipped RX-8. (I think it came out to around $1000 difference)

Originally posted by BRx8
enthusiasts still can't believe that the RX-8 isn't God's gift to man...still denying that the RX-8 isn't the best car and should be able to beat any car any day...unfortunately that's not the case...i wish it were but it's not...


Well, I have to agree with you. It is not the best car, Well you can't expect M3 or 911 competition at RX8 price, are you! I love the look of it. Shame with the underpowered engine. Well, it is a good enough car until the RX7 arrive anyway. Then we start talking real track and performance car.

About the Skyline coupe, I think of it as a budget japanese MB CLK. I used to own CLK430 and man, was I dissapointed. There is no fun in it at all, as a cruiser it is fantastic, but a very boring car. My Sti is a lot more fun compare to CLK at 1/3 of the price. I never test drive an Rx8, but I did tested the 350Z, it is a good car but the engine sounds awful, can't do much with that, it is just a heavily tuned VQ maxima engine. Love the car but not impressed with the handling and engine/exhaust note. Took it to the track, with friends compare it with Sti, Int Type-r, S2000, Evo 6 and 7 man the 350Z does not dance on the tarmac as good as the others. Can't imagine the G35 coupe , but then again it is not built for track use.

Well, I am not going to take the RX8 to track anyway, that is why I say if the handling is better than MX5 or even the similar as MX5 I'll be happy. If any other car can beat RX8 or faster or whatever, so what!!!!

Originally posted by Winning
this will make it up

http://www.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=107961

One other thing to remember too, I think Japanese RX8 is not using the sport suspension that is standard in UK, Australia and maybe USA. Maybe thats is why the roll is pretty bad.

You have to know there is a Type S and normal version of RX8 in Japan. The Type S is 6MT and normal version is 5MT with the 4 induction port engine that only produces ~150kW... anyone know if they have a 5MT or 6MT on the video?????:confused:
I don't know if there is any suspension changes in the normal RX8 in Jap though....
If it said RX8 not RX8 Type S in the video then I strongly suspect it is the 4IP 150kW engine with 5MT.

For the guys like me just paid their deposit - it is how I would think of the result ;)

Originally posted by Skyline Maniac


Personally I think the G35C would look horrible with suicide doors. Also, a base G35C 6MT isn't priced too different from a similarly equipped RX-8. (I think it came out to around $1000 difference)

not necessarily...i mean i'm not disagreeing with you, but if you look at the RX-8 and the way they designed it, you can't really tell that there are suicide doors at all...it looks pretty innocent until you actually bust open those doors...




Originally posted by Winning



Well, I have to agree with you. It is not the best car, Well you can't expect M3 or 911 competition at RX8 price, are you! I love the look of it. Shame with the underpowered engine. Well, it is a good enough car until the RX7 arrive anyway. Then we start talking real track and performance car.

it is a BIG shame, seriously...i mean it couldn't even keep up with the Integra?? sure, driver does play a big role, but that's an Integra! kinda disappointing but like you i don't plan on taking it to the track...

Originally posted by takahashi
If it said RX8 not RX8 Type S in the video then I strongly suspect it is the 4IP 150kW engine with 5MT.

Type S dude...the low power version wouldn't even come close to any of those cars...the Miata would prolly beat it

http://www.bestmotoring.jp/digest/BM/index.html

I don't want to sound too harsh, but for those of you who have a deposit on the RX-8, you should watch this video before buying the RX8. The video provided a lot of insight on exactly what the RX-8 is designed to do, it's (+) and (-). You'll be better informed about the car you are about to spend $30k on.

I wasn't really expecting the RX-8 to out accelerate the G35C, but the RX should have beaten the G35C in AutoX handing, cornering and slalom with its 500 lb advantage. The RX sure as hell should have beaten the Integra on track as well. The video speaks volumes, because the G35C, 350Z, RX-8 and Integra all has the same Potenza tires in Japan. In a sense, this video is probably the most fair and unbiased video we'll get to see, knowing the drivers of BM are all professionals.

The RX-8 works well as a stylish 4 door sedan alternative, but it's not going to hang with the sport coupes or roadsters on a track or even the twisties. The power difference and lack of torque was dreadfully obvious on the straights, even when compared to the Integra w/ only 220hp and less torque.

btw: Like BRx8 said, they tested the Type S RX8 w/ sport suspension and 18" wheels. The 210hp version does not stand a chance.

Anyhow, I don't mean to discourage members from buying the RX-8. The illusion that the RX-8 is a 4 door pure sport car with a wonder engine is not quite substentiated base on what I saw on the video. Watch the video and then decide whether or not the RX-8 is right for you.

btw: I believe Best Motoring is planning on doing a test for 4 door sport sedans in the near future. They'll have the RX-8 vs TSX vs Mazda 6 and IS200 on track. It should be interesting to see if the RX-8 will come out better compared to the other 4 door mid-price sport sedans.

Originally posted by BRx8
it is a BIG shame, seriously...i mean it couldn't even keep up with the Integra?? sure, driver does play a big role, but that's an Integra! kinda disappointing but like you i don't plan on taking it to the track...

Just to remind you that Japanese integra type-R has over 160kw and weight about 300kg lighter than RX8. Plus it also has super stiff spring. I think even S2000 will has problem to keep up with it. The type-R even beats S2000 about more than half a lap in the previous Best Motoring. When they change the driver of the S2000 to M Kurosawa which is one of their best driver, then the S2000 beats the type-r. Even then it has a very difficult time beating the type-r.

Originally posted by Winning
Japanese integra type-R has over 160kw and weight about 300kg lighter than RX8. Plus it also has super stiff spring. I think even S2000 will has problem to keep up with it.

for you Americans, that's about 210hp (160 * 1.31) and 2200lbs.

Originally posted by Winning


Just to remind you that Japanese integra type-R has over 160kw and weight about 300kg lighter than RX8. Plus it also has super stiff spring.

a quick glance into Edmunds car review shows that the American RSX has 200hp and 142lb-ft. 0-60 is rated at 6.7 seconds. i'm not sure what the difference between the Japanese RSX (Integra) and the US-spec one is but just from looking at these specs, the RX-8 should not lose to it in anyway, straight-line or AutoX...after reading about this, it kinda makes me wonder if the RX-8 is a sports car at all but a car with a sporty look...

Originally posted by BRx8


a quick glance into Edmunds car review shows that the American RSX has 200hp and 142lb-ft. 0-60 is rated at 6.7 seconds. i'm not sure what the difference between the Japanese RSX (Integra) and the US-spec one is but just from looking at these specs, the RX-8 should not lose to it in anyway, straight-line or AutoX...after reading about this, it kinda makes me wonder if the RX-8 is a sports car at all but a car with a sporty look...

Well, a lot!!!
To start with 0-100kmh(0-62mph) in 6 seconds, so expect 0-60 in less than 6 seconds. It has 220ps at 8000 rpm instead of 200 hp at 7400 rpm. It weigh about 200kg less, a lot stiffer suspension, brembo brakes, bigger exhaust, sway/roll bars front and back, requires 100RON for petrol, different diff I think. Acura RSX is a cruiser while the Type-R is built for race track. 17inch wheels, huge spoiler for better downforce.

The Type-R also has a lot that it doesn't have compare to RSX. Mostly the luxury extras, to keep the weight down.

I am more surprised that the RX8 got beaten by the G35C. But it is written by the fan than the G35C was driven like a maniac. So I will say the driver also play big part in the battle. Judging from the review, I jump into a conclusion that the first thing I will have to change in my RX8 is stiffer spring. So it will has less bodyroll.

was the rx8 that they tested the low power or high power because didnt they comment on the shifter on the steering wheel? if they did no wonder why it lost, also every car mag the rx8 beat its rivals in handling auto crosses and salom. with the hi power ver the low power is very slow. No offence to buyers of the auto.

The G35C was driven like a maniac, meaning it was not taking the best race line, overtook competitors from the outside, power slide through corners and brake later than competitors. It goes to show the G35C is a very balanced car that can be driven hard and maintain composure, all the while its VDC not completely turned off. I don't think it was much a drivers race in the July issue, the RX-8 was obviously slower than its competitors especially on the straights. (It didn't get passed slowly.... the S2000, G35C and WRX blew by the RX-8 on straights) The excess body roll was evident around corners as well.

The biggest surprise was how well the G35C performed on the track and handling test. In the May issue, the G35C was holding its own against the BMW M3 SMG and 350Z. This is the second time Best Motoring G35C has beaten the 350Z as well. Afterall, it's a Skyline, what do you expect. :D At $32k, with its performance, styling and some luxury, the G35C is really hard to beat. If you don't need a backseat for 2 full size adults in your car, the G35C is definitely worth looking at.

btw: I repeat~ The RX-8 they tested was the top of the line Type S performance model. 18" performance Potenza RE040 tires, sports suspension, 250hp 6MT, upgraded brakes, and standard fog lamps. This is the one used for all the tests I wrote about above.

They ALSO tested an automatic at the end of the video tape on a mountain road. The 210hp automatic with paddle shifter was underpowered and slow to respond like your typical automanual. If you are an driving enthusiasts, for Christ sake please stay away from the automatic RX-8. (It might be beaten by a Mazda 6)

Originally posted by Skyline Maniac


Personally I think the G35C would look horrible with suicide doors. Also, a base G35C 6MT isn't priced too different from a similarly equipped RX-8. (I think it came out to around $1000 difference)

I don't think that anybody is arguing that g35c isn't a GREAT value, but if you can only afford 27-28k, and you need a back seat, then the rx-8 is obviously the better option, by default.

Very interesting... thanks for the post Skyline Maniac - but where is the video link so I can see it for myself?

I am surprised more people haven't commented on this topic yet.

The comments made in the video go against what some of the auto mags here in the states have mentioned, particuliarly Car and Driver and Road and Track. Car and Driver picked the RX-8 over the G35C and the Mustang Cobra, despite it being the slowest of the bunch. The RX-8's handling characteristics seemed better than what the BM's video give it credit for. Road and Track seemed to appreciate the car over the 350Z and BMW 330i as an overall package. The performance numbers are confusing at best, because I've read the RX-8 goes toe to toe with the G35C in acceleration as well as considered better when it comes to handling (Road and Tracks' little side comparo of the RX-8 to the G35C).

Even with the results of this video with comparison to what all the other big names have mentioned and TESTED, I think the performance of the RX-8 is still comparable to that of the G35C. I've heard some complain about the VQ's smoothness (particuliarly Honda fans when compared to the "J" series 6 cyl.). Not to say the G35 is a bad car, I've been considering it for a while. After I see the entire video, I'll have to do a side by side comparo myself to see if it really is all that.

In the end, it's all about personal preference. I won't buy the RX-8 based on looks or the novelty of its "freestyle" doors. I want a car that will perform. I just have to believe that all things being equal, the RX-8 can run with the G35 (and definitely a freakin' RSX-R!).

The comments made in the video go against what some of the auto mags here in the states have mentioned, particuliarly Car and Driver and Road and Track

It was only a matter of time before somebody tested the RX-8, and it fell short in comparison to the other vehicles tested. After all, most all reports up to this point have given its handling characteristics & linear power curve the highest of marks for a vehicle in this price range.

Many on this board own (or have owned) an RX-7. And they are coming back for more by their impending purchase of an RX-8. Why? Because they know the potential of the RENESIS. It takes a different mentality to run a Rotary than a piston engine. Is it possible the driver of the RX-8 did not know how to drive it?

If all the potential RX-8 owner is looking for is acceleration, there are better choices. Handling? Better choices. I am after the whole package the RX-8 gives me (and I suspect many, many others), which is a blend of performance, handling, able to carry 4 full-size adults, looks fantastic (IMO the best of all in its class, whatever class you choose to put the RX-8 in), and as Car & Driver said, has a Fun Factor of 10, surpassing the other vehicles tested.

I was disappointed at first after I read about the video. Then I read through the magazines again and realize the numbers alone never tell the whole story. It is kinda like the miata, a car that sucks on paper but universally loved by magazines and owners. There is more to a sports car than lap and 1/4 mi times, and that is the connection between the driver and the car. Looking at the fun to drive factor of 10 for the RX-8 vs 8 for the G35 in C&D, it is apparent that the extra 500 lbs on the G35 affect this connection, even though it doesn't show up in the numbers.

Having said that, I think Mazda should offer a suspension package that is a step above the current sport suspension, kinda like the R1 and R2 on the FD

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

very interesting, in the Mags, Rx-8 comes out on top, in the vid, rx-8 comes out on bottom.....
________
PRETEEN NONUDE (http://vaporizers.net)

I'll say this much.

The RX-8 is out in a month.

Get in the damn car and find out for yourself. Don't be magazine junkies or video junkies... the only way to know if the car is *truly* for you is if you get into it and drive it yourself.

That said, my mind will not be made up until I drive it too. The RX-8 is great on paper, seems to be the more agile car of the group, and likely (regardless of what magazine or video says), a better handler as well.

Now that will only be proven when I get into the car and drive it.

Like I made mention a few weeks ago, when I drove the BMW Z4 2.5, it was MUCH more fun to drive than the G35 Coupe. I threw that car in the twisties and it just OBEYED. G35 Coupe is an impressive car and will be my choice should the RX-8 not be up to snuff... but please let's keep it light on these 'reviews.'

Everybody's selling something... you should sell YOURSELF the car. Don't let somebody sell it to you.

I agree with what others have said. The RX-8 is a light fun to drive car that happens to carry 4 full size adults. The RX-8 has the spirit of Mazda Miata, and practicality of a compact 4 door sedan. The C&D article praised the fun to drive factory of the RX-8, which is reconfirmed by the BM staff in the video. C&D rated the RX8 over the G35C and Mustang for its value, handling and fun to drive factor, but C&D also confirmed the Mustang and G35C are both faster and more powerful sport cars. There is no contradiction in the reviews as some of you believe. The RX-8 trails only the S2000 and Miata in fun to drive factor in the video, which is a big accomplishment for a 4 passenger car. The BM Fun to Drive Ranking was S2000>RX-8>G35C>350Z>BMW330 SMG.

Seeing the cars in action side by side gives you a very clear picture of the advantages and disadvantages of each on the track. The 500lb difference between the G35C and RX-8 shows up in turn in and tossability tests. However, it seems the soft suspension of the RX-8, combined with the tall height and narrow width contributed to excess roll when pushed. (This was very apparent in the slalom test) Still, the RX-8 was fast around corners, it can certainly hold its own in the twisties. The S2000 looks like a demon on these switch backs and hairpins with ease. The G35C reminded me of the was fast, powerful, lots of grip, but it will power slide on command and looks very stable around corners. The RX-8 performance characteristic is more similar to the S2000, while the G35C resembles the 350Z and GT-R type. As far as engine power is concerned, there is no the RX-8 simply could not compete with the S2000, G35C, WRX, and even the Integra-R on the straights. That was dissapointing to me, because I expected the Renesis not to be left in the dust by the Honda 4 bangers.

I don't know why everyone keeps comparing the RX-8 to the G35C, since they are not in the same class. Then again, the RX-8 really doesn't belong in any specific group base on normal standards. After 5 laps, the S2000 took the checked over G35C by 1.1 second, which was very surprising. (consider the 600lb difference) On the other hand, the RX-8 finished nearly 7.7 seconds behind S2000, (appx 7 seconds behind G35C) which was dissapointing consider the RX-8 and S2000 engine have nearly identical spec, and the RX-8 being only 110lb heavier than the S2000. To be honest, I don't think the RX-8 would be considered in the same performance class as the G35C. If the RX-8 is truly a better handler than the G35C, then at least it would have beat the G on slalom, lateral grip, AutoX course, hairpins and high speed lane change test...... but it did not.

I won't argue with the fun to drive factor , because every publication, video, reviews have clearly stated the RX-8 is definitely fun to drive. You can see this on the video as well, the RX-8 is a drift-happy machine.:)

Anyhow, I am ripping the video as we speak. I'll try to get it compressed and partitioned by tomorrow so we can all watch the video to make up our own minds.

Like I said... it'll be out in a month.

Go drive it and make up your own minds.

the bottom line is if you spend all your time at the track, autoxes, whatever then this video might raise some doubts for your rx8 preorder, but if you're never going to touch a track then this video means nothing for you, and you're going to love the rx8 for what it is. if track performance was the all-important measure of a car then the streets would not be filled with jettas, miatas, and accords not to mention thousands of other makes and models of cars which would be eaten up and spit out at the track. everyone has different priorities and I can guarantee there is a LARGE number of people for which the rx8 and its particular balance of features, price, performance is without a doubt the perfect car for them. for those people, the extra straightline speed of the g35c and s2000 would not be worth the lack of rear doors and seats and the extra $5K, the turbo punch and rollercoaster grip of the awd wrx would not be worth its bland styling and total lack of sex appeal, and the rsx's desirable qualities (whatever they are) would not be worth having to be seen in a car thousands of teenagers own.

Yup, wait till the car is here...

So it may not be a fantastic track car, but I remember an old BM video which tested the McLaren F1 against the F355, NSX, Diablo, a 600bhp Supra etc and a couple of other supercars...the McLaren came second last...

Originally posted by Skyline Maniac
It didn't get passed slowly.... the S2000, G35C and WRX blew by the RX-8 on straightsOne has to wonder if the auxiliary ports were opening.

Originally posted by eccles
One has to wonder if the auxiliary ports were opening.

it's funny when someone brings this up. five years from now people are still gonna be saying "when are the auxiliary ports gonna open". i call it "auxiliary ports denial", our inability to accept the demonstrated performance of a vehicle we wish to be much faster.

the rx8 is plenty fast. even if we go to the track once a month (which is far more than most of us here will), then for that .01% of our time driving the car we might become aware that other faster cars exist. the other 99.99% of the time we'll be driving on the street in what many reviewers have referred to as the most "fun-to-drive" car in its class.

Originally posted by ml2316
5 years from now people are still gonna be saying "when are the auxiliary ports gonna open". i call it "auxiliary ports denial", our inability to accept the demonstrated performance of a vehicle we wish to be much faster.

It is a new medical diagnosis!!! I must include it in the new DSM menu (the psychiartric bible) ~ ask any doctor

hmm out of that list in the UK:

We dont get a G35.
350z isnt out till end of year and only seats 2.
s2000 is a great car but only seats 2.
Subaru WRX is a well known great car. Seats 4(5) and very fast. BUT its but ugly, has a riceboy image and is 4WD , I want RWD (also gets stoled 4 times a week here).
Skyline. lol £50k+ new car here (Import only too).
Integra type-r. We dont get. The only Type-R we get is the civic. Nice n fast but VERY Riceboy, plastic fantastic and FWD.


The RX-8 here is one of a very few purpose built 4 door/4 steater performance cars that retail for £20000. We have TONS of great 2 seaters here but there are very few genuine competitors for the RX-8 (things like toyopta celica or something?).

Thats why I'm getting one. If I wanted performance If I wanted 100% out and out performance I'd be gettinga caterham.

While it is disturbing to read about the rotary's relative lack of punch, for me it's not the primary reason for getting this car. This is a stylish, relatively affordable, practical, sports vehicle. In Canada, there simply is no other vehicle with the same offerings, let alone same price category. If we're going to compare different priced vehicles, then difference in performance has to be compared against features and cost. A fully loaded RX-8 is still 4K less than a base 350Z in Canada. A RSX Type S comes in at low 30s, so a Type R would easily be mid to high 30s = the reason why Honda/Acura is too scared to bring that car here knowing that feature wise they're lacking but performance wise, they're similar to the RX-8.

In terms of performance, I want the handling, braking, and some high end punch. Due to broadening the market appeal, the springs might be a little soft. However, IMO the handling potential/engineering of the RX-8 (yaw control, suspension design, and centre of gravity) exceed the others listed in the comparo. Slap some reasonable sport springs/shocks on the car and then well see truely impressive handling numbers. Am I surprised the RX-8 is a little soft? No, drive the Mazda6 with it's "sport suspension" and you'll experience the exact same lack of roll control.

Originally posted by FritzMan
This is a stylish, relatively affordable, practical, sports vehicle. In Canada, there simply is no other vehicle with the same offerings, let alone same price category. How about the Saturn Ion Quad coupe? Do you have Saturns there in Canada. The Ion has similar type doors, less horsepower, and a lot cheaper. Sorry for sounding like a dealer, just trying to help out.
http://www.saturn.com/ionqc2/images/ionqc2-tour1.jpg

Well, the BM staff said the RX-8 has a lot of aftermarket potentials, given its soft suspension, NA engine, and so-so Potenza tires. The RX-8 is already an impressive package, with additions of aftermarket parts (which Mazda themselves have referred to in the past) the RX-8 can definitely be a true sport car contender. I also have no doubt the Mazdaspeed RX-8 will address the many problems stock RX8 Type S has. Like I described before, the staff members of BM were enthusiastic about the RX and gave it a thumbs up for the overall package.

Every car has its strength and weakness. You have to find the one that fits you best. At OUR level, any track event would be determined by 90% driver skill and 10% car, so it doesn't matter much. If anyone is really serious about motor sport, then aftermarket parts can be slapped on to enhance peformance. (which is very different from RiCe) Look at it this way: You can always slap on a turbo and stiff springs on the RX-8 to make it a better performer, but there isn't anything you can add to a S2000 or 350Z to make them carry 4 people. ;) Then again, there is the 6MT G35 sedan at around $27k luxuriously equipped..... but the styling department might be lacking somewhat. It'd be interesting to pit the G35 sedan against the RX-8 on track though.

Check out the preview of the latest Hot Version.
http://www.bestmotoring.jp/digest/HV/index.html

I have trouble believing that a RSX-R blew by the RX-8 on the straights, even factoring weight difference. That just makes me question the ability of the drivers that much more. Either that or the K20 the type r carries is under rated (RX-8 over rated?). I'm still interested in seeing the video and maybe then I can make an accurate comparison for myself. If you got a G35C slidin' all over Tsukuba and a handful of other good performers taking good lines on he same course and ending up with a finish as described above. Someone' s not doing something right. I would expect a greater gap between the S2k and G35. I would even expect the RSX a little closer to the S2k from what I've seen in the other BM videos.

Man, you guys are crazy if you think the RX-8 is underpowered! 250 hp is 250 hp. And you will not be complaining of lack of punch once you down shift that rotary and hit the accelerator. While it won't have the split second jolt of a car with peaky torque, it's gonna rocket to redline plenty quick, if you're not afraid to go there.

Also, the C&D road test (which was also in video format) said the RX-8 was easily the quickest and best handling in the lane change test... much faster than both the G35 and the Mustang Cobra.

And last, but not least... the driver of the car is a HUGE factor in how the car performs, along with how familiar the driver is with the way the car works. You can not possibly draw a definitive conclusion about how the car performs, from a single road test, where each car is driven by different drivers with varying skill levels.

Just as those of us that love the rotary engine (and have actually driven one before) are making subjective claims about the RX-8, which we have never driven (but do have at least some previous experience with in the RX-7 format), those who wish to dog the RX-8 are making claims they, too, know nothing about... and most of the time, they have NO previous experience with a rotary powered car.

Like Herc said... just wait and see. I don't think anyone will be dissapointed with their decision to purchase the RX-8 once they have driven it. If my past experiences with the RX-7 are any indication, I know I'm gonna love it!

Well then a used Lexus is 300 can be had for only 23,000 from the local autotrader or ebay.


Sorry I'll have to pass on the rx-8 ... I don't need teeny boppers running me off the road/track. For track junkies get the srt-4
for driving enthusiasts get the is300 or gs35.

Nothing beat an inline 6 cyl car

oh well been fun

Originally posted by block911



oi poloi it's not the HP it's the Torque that gives you the acceleration... Hence why the rx-8 got spanked


So what excuses do you guys have now??

That's right, we were all making excuses for the RX-8 and always saying it was all about driving in a straight line.

:confused:

Originally posted by Hercules

That's right, we were all making excuses for the RX-8 and always saying it was all about driving in a straight line.

:confused:


OHHH so it rules in the twisties


so how'd it get owned in auto-x

LOL

zoom zoom my ass HEHEH


srtforums.com ownz j000z

Originally posted by block911



OHHH so it rules in the twisties


so how'd it get owned in auto-x

LOL

zoom zoom my ass HEHEH


srtforums.com ownz j000z

"They indicated the soft suspension of the RX-8 created too much roll around slaloms and corners."
That's why. Not because it's "torqueless". Hell, S2000 did very well and its got "no torque".

But look here: "RX-8 was rated to be the 2nd most fun to drive car right between S2000 and G35C."
The car the got "owned" is one of the more enjoyable cars. :eek:

Want better performance? get some teins, slap on a turbo.
But if you want fun, then you have to buy a fun car. I don't care what you say, you're not gonna get a G35c to rev up to 9k. I'm glad Mazda got the essentials things (which can't be changed) right.

Originally posted by block911



OHHH so it rules in the twisties


so how'd it get owned in auto-x

LOL

zoom zoom my ass HEHEH


srtforums.com ownz j000z Thanks for your insight troll.

Originally posted by chenpin


Want better performance? get some teins, slap on a turbo.
But if you want fun, then you have to buy a fun car. I don't care what you say, you're not gonna get a G35c to rev up to 9k.

Why would you want to rev a G35C to 9k..... when you are already dealing with 200lb.ft of torque at 2000rpm? ;)

Oh, G35c is an awesome car no doubt. But I just like revving. :D ;)

block911 you are so right. I'm canceling my RX-8 order and buying a Neon STR-4. Right........... It's great and all that you don't like the RX-8. I personally don't like the SRT-4 or any FWD cars for a matter. If I wanted a straight line fast car I would have bought an old fox body mustang for 2k and spent 18k on engine work. My choice was to get an RX-8 because I like rotary power cars. If in the future I want to go faster I'll add a turbo.

OK you want to add $5000 in turbo to a 27,000 car just to go slower than an IS 300 or G35 AND wreck your warranty... way to go mang!!!!

Polish math for when the world just doesn't make sense anymore :confused: :confused: :confused:

Look, most of the people here are buying this car because it's quite simply, the most fun to drive and the most practical.

This is echoed by both that video, and also every magazine review.

If you are buying a car to take to the track, there are better choices than a G35 Coupe or 350Z. If you are buying one to go in a straight line, there are better choices again.

What I, and many others are looking for, is the one that puts the biggest smile on our face.

You seem to be the type of person that buys a car because of what *other* people think. Good for you. Now hurry back to your SRT or whatever forums that "own us", because it's obvious you have nothing to contribute to bring up a valid debate or point, you're just here to troll.

However if you wish to participate in the chat, feel free to do so. Trolling has been put down before, and will be done again so like I said... either get participating or get out.

Thanks.

Originally posted by block911
OK you want to add $5000 in turbo to a 27,000 car just to go slower than an IS 300 or G35 AND wreck your warranty... way to go mang!!!!

How do you know what the potential of the Renesis is? Also, I think it goes without saying that you do this stuff after the warranty period. The Renesis alrdy matches (almost) the power (not torque tho) of the U.S. spec FDs. Imagine its potential with a turbo or porting.

Besides, the RX-8 is alrdy cheaper than most competitors so you can just see this as investing the money you save.

and please all lets remember that all of the cars talked about can get smoked in a straight line by one of these(it's got good back seats too):

http://www.buickgn.com/newindexpic.jpg

and one of these also (no back seats but HUGE "trunk") :

http://www.cars-on-line.com/9600/91gmc9630-AA.jpg

and one of these (back seat and larger "trunk" than any of them):


http://www.whitetyphoon.com/stokes/left_front_quarter.jpg

0-60 less than 5 seconds all of them:D

Well, I have an Sti. I know it doesn't look that fantastic, but it can kick any VQ skyline, 350Z and Neon's ass!!!! Twisties, straight line, mountain you name it!!! It is also less expensive than G35C or 350Z, in standard form unless the new GTR come out, you all can forget seeing my tail lights in mountain passes.

I am still getting my RX8 because I love the package. Even if the G35C or even 350Z is cheaper than the RX8, will I get it instead of the RX8? No way, I personally think the G35C is sooo ugly, fat and does not look as lean and sit as nice as the RX8. While the 350Z design does not have character at all, you can see a lot of Porsche and Audi TT influence in the design. And to make it worse, the same VQ engine with maxima, so expect awful exhaust note.

I love the GT-Rs 32, 33, and 34 just hope that R35 does not use the same flatform as the skyline coupe and 350Zand more powerful VQ engine . If it does, it does not deserve the GTR badge anymore!! On the other hand, if the two door RX8 use the same platform and more powerful renesis engine, it deserve the RX7 badge. Everyone agree with this?

You all have to remember that the RX8 that we are getting at the moment is sort of the beginning of the RX8 line and renesis rotary!! we don't have much choice. Expect more and better variation to come like Mazdaspeed and RX7. Then we all have more choices for different needs.

Like I said the bottom line is if I like the RX8, you can say whatever you want I don't care. If you like you G35coupe, and everyone else in this forum is getting the RX8, so what!!!! It is your money, and different people has different taste!!! Enjoy your Best Motoring track victory in your own forum, please!! And even better since you'all have your skyline coupe already, enjoy your car instead of wasting so much time in the RX8 forum!!! Just pity us that we still have not receive our RX8 yet. So if you still cannot resist to tell us about your Best Motoring stuff, please wait until sometimes next month. Because most of us will enjoy our RX8 and most likely will not be here for a while!!!

Originally posted by javahut
...

Like Herc said... just wait and see. I don't think anyone will be dissapointed with their decision to purchase the RX-8 once they have driven it. If my past experiences with the RX-7 are any indication, I know I'm gonna love it!

Which is why I ordered mine. And a faster 0-60 than my '87 RX-7 TII makes me plenty happy. Add in that the RX-8 is said to have better handling than ANY RX-7, and I'm ecstatic!

I will have zero regrets about buying this car, even if I'm continually beat off the line at a traffic light by jerks in their muscle-cars. If I were them I would derive no pleasure from knowing that my sh*t-box is faster than someone else's work of art. They just don't get it. Fortunately, I do.

Sweet have fun getting toasted bhttp://www.rx8forum.com/images/icons/icon13.gif
http://www.rx8forum.com/images/icons/icon13.gify neons

Originally posted by block911
Sweet have fun getting toasted bhttp://www.rx8forum.com/images/icons/icon13.gif
http://www.rx8forum.com/images/icons/icon13.gify neons Unlike you, we fortunately are comfortable with our manhood enough that we don't need to rev the engine to the retard sitting in the lane next to us.

And if he revs his engine at us... I'll rev it back and when the light turns... let him fly down the street like he *really* accomplished something.

This car is for *me*. Not for the idiot next to me that wants to show off his 'l33t' skills in dropping the clutch, like he actually knows how to drive.

Originally posted by block911
Sweet have fun getting toasted bhttp://www.rx8forum.com/images/icons/icon13.gif
http://www.rx8forum.com/images/icons/icon13.gify neons

dude, not everyone thinks like you. Just because you don't like doesn't mean no one else can.

Sheesh Winning, don't lash out at me. I took the time to purchase the VHS and write a detailed review of the BM video for the benefit of the forum. I am sorry if the RX-8 didn't come out on top, but like I said, the video shows both the strength and weakness of the RX-8 in various conditions. For anyone who hasn't driven the RX-8 who are driving enthusiasts, this video is very valuable. I didn't expected be flamed by you (most forum members have been very mature)about posting these info. I suppose the next time I get my hands on RX-8 info I should just keep quiet? :p

I won't bother respond to your Nissan bashing. If you don't like it, so be it. ;) There is no need for me to defend the Nissan duo here.

I think everyone on the forum should see this video, just like how you should also read the magazine reviews, test drive the car and compare them for yourselves. I think the BM video is perhaps the best source of info when it comes to competitive driving, real track/twisties performance and insights from real auto experts. (Read the BM driver's experiences in driving. I doubt you can find too many more experienced drivers in the world) Unfortunately I can't seem to rip the video due to its native protection, so I suppose we'll have to wait for someone else to do it and host the video on the forum.

btw: chenpin, I know what you meant about the rev. Rev happy cars are very fun to drive, especially when they handle very well. That's what gives the S2000 that magic formula. 4 wheel motorcycles. :D

Originally posted by Skyline Maniac

I won't bother respond to your Nissan bashing. If you don't like it, so be it. ;) There is no need for me to defend the Nissan duo here.



First of all, I know my Nissan, I love my GTR, and I know my GTR. If GTR is using the same engine as the Maxima, it is something to be ashamed of. Ask all GTR owners and they will say the same thing.

Second, dont' try to be so understanding and mature in this forum about the RX8 not winning the battle. Everyone know what you intention is by writing all these in this forum. You sounds very different in you other forum by the way.

http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB25&Number=67426638&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

Familiar with these:
"Skyline Coupe beat the RX-8","RX-8 got its ass kicked by everyone ","why the hell would you guess the RX-8 in front of the G", and you accused me for "Nissan bashing"? At least I never waste my time and try to be so understanding at your forum when the G35 coupe got beaten by the RX8 at C&D.

And now Best Motoring is one of the best publication, eh??? Simply because they have the G35C kicking ass on their track test. I know they are one of the best and respectable. They have races where the RX7 FD beat every other cars, and there are occasion on a different day and different driver where every other cars beat the RX7 on the same track.

The other reason why I love my RX8 is because it is a pure breed sports car. It doesn't share chassis and engine with any other sedan from Mazda or Ford. It doesn't have to be the fastest or the quickest around the track. It is expected with the power and torque of the car. But at least the car has its own character.


PS: now Best Motoring just found one more loyal customer. and talking about maturity, hmmmm....

Like I said, suit yourself. ;)

About your VQ engine, FM platform dissing, just one thing: Do you know what JGTC is? Do me a favor and check it out before you put on the Nissan Expert suit. Anything else personal you want to say to me, feel free to PM me.

Winning, you said what I was thinking :)...

and no, not pertaining to Skyline's post, but rather that every day a different driver can make or break a car's lap times. If a driver has the runs, he won't be comfy in the seat and thus times are going to be off.

I mean, when C&D had the same editor put three cars thru the paces and they wound up within one second of each other... and now you have a different video where the RX-8 "got its ass kicked"... it says something.

That's why I don't put much stock into these lap times. It's nice to see what a car is *capable* of doing on a track but really it's useless to watch a video unless they are relaying the feel of the car while driving, which they aren't. That's why I like the Top Gear/5th Gear series, because as they are driving, they relay information like "this gearbox is notchy", or "wow what a suspension dip!" etc..

When I get in the RX-8 and take it for a spin I'll know for sure. Acelleration is not something I'm really worried about at all because even at a street start, 7.5 seconds is not *terrible*. People make it out that the RX-8 would *never* be able to merge into traffic and if I can do it with my AGRESSIVE, BRAKE TORQUEING 0-60 time of 9+ seconds in my Millenia.. the RX-8 will have no problem.

It's a constant perpetuation that cars *need* more power. Personally instead of ADDING displacement, I'd rather they remove weight. This is why Mazda is an enthusiast company, and it's a niche that I fit into. While most of America is pushing to the "give me more power, bigger, better, etc", Mazda will continue to push to the side with the emphasis on a stable chassis, rotary development, and a lightweight, agile and nimble package that's a blast to drive.

Now whichever car you buy... kudos to ya. This video would not bother me in the slightest because as I said... lap times vary so signifigantly from driver to driver and day to day that it's stupid to bring them into account. As said many, many times.. you don't drive a spec sheet.

Get in the car, and if it feels right for you, slap some damn money on the table.

Otherwise, get another car and enjoy that whichever way you will.

Somethin else to note...

I remember when the G35/G35C was released and the BMW 330 beat it in almost every comparison, and I was lurking on those G35 forums back then...

Every magazine that gave the G35 subpar reviews to the 330 "didn't know shit", and then when Motor Trend gave the G35 the prize, everybody felt vindicated.

Seriously.... magazine racing is for people who don't know how to drive. Because if you know how to drive at all... you know its not in the numbers that makes a car.

Judging purely from numbers... the McLaren F1 is subpar to a *LOT* of exotics and you'd never choose it.

Yet reviewers still rate it the best and most fun car to drive to date. Despite the numbers AND laptimes.

The G35C reviews? which one were you referring to? C&D? Autoweek? ROad & Track? Motor Trend? I don't remember reading about a review like that. ;)

Hercules, I think you should watch the video anyways even though you say it's useless. Afterall, the BM staff are the pros and they know what they are doing. Many people talk about the capabilities of automobiles, and it doesn't get any better than watch factory stock cars competing on a race track. If you are looking for FUN TO DRIVE, you'll love the video as well. The RX-8 looked very good around tight corners and in the mountain pass.

BM is certainly a very credible publication that has been around for a long long time. If you ever watched BM, you'd know it is on par, if not better than Top Gears. Info is related from in race recording, multiple drivers, serious discussions and detailed descriptions for its characters. Ask anyone in the JDM auto scene about Best Motoring and its drivers before dismissing it.

You are correct to a certain extend, we don't drive a spec sheet. In the sense that most people will never explore the full performance envalope of their automobiles. That's why cars like SUV, Camry, Passats and minivans sell so well.

With regards to the drivers, please give Best Motoring staff some credit. These are par none the best drivers in Japan, and all of them have a long credential of racing experience. I don't disagree that drivers make a difference in these races, but only to a certain extend. Allow me to share some more info regarding the RX-8 and Tsukuba: Many auto publishing companies had the pleasure of testing the RX-8 on Tsukuba Circuit and their results timed. Most everyone has been getting 1'11 with the RX-8 on Tsukuba. (including a time attack in the June issue, time attack in July and also Options magazine) In comparison, modern GT-R, NSX have been timed around 1'05 in Tsukuba, and G35C has timed in in 1'09. (by the same driver as the RX-8)

For those of you who bagged on the RX-8 driver, he drove the G35C in the May issue, and did really well against a M3 and 350Z. (the last place 350Z driver was driven by S2000 driver in the July issue)

Are some of you guys implying the validity of the video is questionable? This is BM and professional drivers we are talking about. Don't be bashing them unless you think you can do better.

Originally posted by Hercules
Seriously.... magazine racing is for people who don't know how to drive. Because if you know how to drive at all... you know its not in the numbers that makes a car.



Originally posted by Hercules
I mean, when C&D had the same editor put three cars thru the paces and they wound up within one second of each other... and now you have a different video where the RX-8 "got its ass kicked"... it says something.


http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2942

Let's try not to discredit ALL publications. ;) Anyhow, stop arguing over nothing. This post was about information of a competitive video about the RX-8, and that's all.

Originally posted by Skyline Maniac
I won't bother looking up Herc's past posts about the C&D article.
;) Anyhow, stop arguing about nothing. This post was about information of a competitive video about the RX-8, and that's all. Here, here.

Bashing the BM staff will not give us what we all really want......more torque. The 8 will stand on its own, just like the Miata and the first 2 generations of RX. If you want more power, then this version of the is not for you, but it is perfect for me.

Skyline, sometimes people can just have a 'bad day.'

When it's said that the "RX-8 got its ass kicked" and per your own words... is lacking about 2 seconds behind, I think that's pretty reasonable.

So if the BM video showed the G35 Coupe in a landslide victory over the RX-8 as it seems to have been done, then yea, I'll say that the driver had a bad day. Why? Because you YOURSELF said the RX-8 was getting ~1'11 on the track... and the G35 Coupe 1'09. Thus, a 2 second (or less) deficit is reasonable... so it's how people translate it into words.

Close to 2 seconds per lap, 5 laps race.... how many car lengths would the RX-8 be trailing by end of 5 laps? ;)

Are we going to keep playing this BM-Driver-Sucks game? :confused:

Originally posted by Skyline Maniac
Close to 2 seconds per lap, 5 laps race.... how many car lengths would the RX-8 be trailing by end of 5 laps? ;)

Are we going to keep playing this BM-Driver-Sucks game? :confused: Guess we have to see that video :)

Originally posted by Skyline Maniac
Sheesh Winning, don't lash out at me.

if anything winning can lash out at me, since i started the thread. skyline maniac deserves thanks for supplying the info.

Originally posted by Skyline Maniac


With regards to the drivers, please give Best Motoring staff some credit.

i dunno. in best motoring comparo with the z, m3, and g i got the feeling the older z driver (father of the g driver?) wasn't taking it as seriously as the other two. at the end he doesn't participate in the discussion at all, and it's obvious he is the least agressive of the three drivers when you watch the race. i can believe that some drivers aren't driving as hard in these comparos. and i doubt they are all intensely competitive when they participate in best motoring video shoots. i think it's more about getting impressions of these cars from expert drivers than it is about competition.

Taken from the FreshAlloy forums, when I asked if the Skyline Coupe is the same as the G35 Coupe in the states:

Unfortunately no, the JDM Skyline that was used in the video had standard aluminum pedals, better tires, Nismo suspension tweaking and ECU tuning that gives the same power as the 350Z. So the Skyline Coupe is like a souped up G35C. So I wonder whether or not a G35C would be able to do the same on Tsukuba given the same conditions.

So there's a bit of info... take it as you will.

Originally posted by Skyline Maniac




http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2942

Let's try not to discredit ALL publications. ;) Anyhow, stop arguing over nothing. This post was about information of a competitive video about the RX-8, and that's all.



i think hercules is just making the simple point that different drivers and different conditions can yield different results. he's not discrediting anyone.

Originally posted by Skyline Maniac
Unfortunately I can't seem to rip the video due to its native protection, so I suppose we'll have to wait for someone else to do it and host the video on the forum.


Skyline Mechanic (aka. CPV35SukairainKupe, Skyline2, Sukairain, V35, and SSS),

Maybe you can also be known as "Sky two-faced".

Don't have access to the video? Yeah right.

It's funny you post this remark when according to your post on the Fresh Alloy forum, click here (http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB25&Number=67426638&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1) , that someone ripped the video for you on June 6.

"Winning" is right. We know your real intention on this thread and/or forum - to stir the pot. I know from being a member of the Fresh Alloy forum as "Stlr#1fan" since last year (since I was going to buy a G35), that you have done nothing but bad mouth the RX-8 on that forum along with every other car that seriously challenges the G35. You have every right too there, since you own the G35 and are a member there. Don't play your innocent "troll" routine here. You may sugar coat your messages here, but I know how you really are. You may have some of the forum members here fooled, but some of us know better.

Every post here you state how good the RX-8 is, but the message always has been, "but the G35 does this better". To me, the RX-8 is better in the things that are important to me. IMO, the G35 has a less attractive interior, among other things. I also like the styling of the RX-8 better. You are also wrong about the price. An equally equipped G35c with Navigation is over $4000 more than my RX-8. Big selling point to me.

I don't mind if you want to post here, and you are free to do so. But try to do it honestly, without your "subliminal" messages of how great the G35 is. It's a great car, I admit, but not without it's problems. People here need to visit the Fresh Alloy forum and get a real idea. It does have it's share of problems.

Also, I admit people need to drive other cars if they are unsure of their purchase. To many, the RX-8 will suit them just fine. Others may choose the G35 or something else.

Unfortunately no, the JDM Skyline that was used in the video had standard aluminum pedals, better tires, Nismo suspension tweaking and ECU tuning that gives the same power as the 350Z. So the Skyline Coupe is like a souped up G35C. So I wonder whether or not a G35C would be able to do the same on Tsukuba given the same conditions.

Gee, isn't this important information when talking about this comparo? How about we have a Mazdaspeed RX-8 race a normal G35c and state that it is only a normal RX-8?

Better tires, better suspension, more power....hmmmm wonder how a RX8 will do with these things. where's the rolleyes smiley?

Originally posted by block911
Sorry I'll have to pass on the rx-8 ...

hey block911 didn't you already "pass" on the 8 and buy a Mazda6s?

I wouldn't put much stock into ONE best motoring video. You'll see results vary from show to show. For instance, the debut battle for the Honda S2000 saw it come in last place behind the DC2 Type R and S15. The drivers noted, especially Gan-san that it was the worst feeling S2000 he's driven (he was a consultant for Honda during development). It's still too early to say the RX8 is "slower" than the competition.

Hercules is right by saying the video will never show how the cars feel, which is worth a lot more than lap times IMO.

In defense of BM, all the drivers are seasoned professionals and trust me they drive to win. A level of competativeness is clearly shown on each race.

I will be getting my copy in on Monday. Sorry for the long wait but that is when it arrives at the store here. They may get the Hot Version as well *Crosses Fingers* :D.

Sigh, I am about to give up on ripping this tape. The native protection of the VHS can only be defeated on special modified VHS. If any of you guys are in NJ or SoCal, see if you can rent a DVD copy or a 'copied' VHS tape. Most Japanese video stores know how to rip these videos. Until then, I am going to wait for the VCD to come out and work on a definitive translation. Hopefully some techno savvy people on the forum can help subbing it.

I apologize if I sounded too G35C biased. Can't really blame me though ;), it's an amazing car. The BM staff really liked the RX-8, and I think Mazda did the right thing making the car 'slightly soft.' Afterall, comfort and convinience sell cars, not extreme track performance. Look at the GT-R, it's a Japanese legend, performs like exotics, but it didn't sell well. Anyone who's buying the RX-8 as a daily car would appreciate the more compliant ride and its 4 seated 4 door convinience. (as BM staff indicated) For those wanting more performance, there is always Mazda speed and other tuning companies to beef things up. I think you guys will enjoy this video regardless of the outcomes of the race. Like Herc and others said, the fun to drive factor of the RX is undeniable, and handling and performance are both very impressive consider the overall package and price.

I apologize for not being able to rip the video with any sort of good quality. If anyone wants some clips, LMK and I can maybe upload some webcam grabs with low resolution.

Hey Skyline.. does Best Motoring come in DVD format? I have the July on hold that is coming in on Monday but it's VHS. Arg! I would hate to have to break out my VHS player. I would prefer DVD format if available. I cheked the site and only certain ones are DVD. Please inform me thanks. :)

I think Best Motoring is mostly on VHS, but the HK version of Best Motoring are released in DVD format. DVD format would be much easier to rip and yield higher quality. Not to mention the HK DVD versions are actually cheaper in most cases.;)

Thanks, by HK you mean Hong Kong?

Yap, Hong Kong Best Motoring videos. I think you can find those in China Town, and lots of them in Canada. I am trying my luck on Ebay right now.

now they're all vhs and dvd

Skyline,

What problems are you having "ripping" the tape? I assume you mean digitizing the video and compressing it, right? What type of video capture system are you using? I can probably help if you give me some specifics. I have several original Best Motoring tapes and none have Macrovision encoded in them. Even so, VHS protection can be easily defeated with practically any cheap signal filter. Since most capture boards do not have an auto-gain, Macrovision shouldn't have any effect, regardless.

AFAIK, specials edition videos are now available on DVD, but not the monthly editions (at least not yet). Zigzag Asia is doing the official English versions of the Best Motoring videos (even Amazon carries them now), but unfortunately they are not entirely up to date, nor cover all the monthly video magazines.

Most HK discs of the BM tapes are just copies of the VHS tapes, compressed to MPEG-1 or 2 (read: bootleg). The quality isn't any better than the original source.

Well, I don't have a video PC card (Laptop here) so I was attempting to rip it with a digital camcorder through firewire connection. Using the VHS as source, Camcorder as digital converter and then transfer the video to computer via firewire. The problem is, I can watch the video through the camcroder, but the copy protection prevents any data from being streamed through the VHS. This is rather irritating. I attempted to copy the VHS to another VHS, but that didn't work either.

Any suggestions?:confused:

Skyline,

Have you been able to verify this setup works with a non-copy-protected tape? Make sure you have DV-OUT enabled under VTR settings on the camcorder. Stupid question, but your camcorder does support analog in, right?

Maybe there is Macrovision on that tape after all. In that case, most consumer camcorders will disable DV-OUT upon detection. This unit is pretty popular for stripping out the protection signal (hooks between tape deck and camcorder):

http://www.videoguys.com/sima.htm#sedcm

There are lots of no-name boxes that may be more effective, prices vary quite a bit (search google for 'Macrovision decoder').

I'm not sure I'd invest in these boxes just for one video. But if you plan on more VHS dubs or using your camcorder to digitized in the future, maybe it's worth it (they're still a lot less than a dedicated capture board). I use a Pinnacle DV-500+, and the built-in TBC eliminates the anomalous signals during capture, so it'll take anything.

Yeah, I can digitalize all my other video tapes, just not the Best Motoring originals and some other Japanese tapes I bought in the past. I am pretty sure it's the protection mechanism. I can't even watch the video tape when I serial link 2 VCR's together. I have always known there was something on Japanese tapes, but I didn't know they were Macrovision encodings.

I tried to 'borrow' a Pinnicle Firewire video editing box, but my local electronic stores all have the dreaded 15% restocking fee on the damn thing. (which comes out to around $30) Not really worth it.

I suppose I can send my tape to a friend in California who has some knowledge in ripping this, but it would take another 3-4 days in transit. By the time you'd probably receive your copy already. Sigh, I should have just sent the tape out to someone last week instead of trying to DIY the rip.

This BM video results really had me confused, especially given all the other glowing reviews of the RX-8 in the major US car mags.

In the Car&Driver comparison, the G35c & RX-8 had virtually identical track times at the Streets of Willows Raceway (1:20.51 & 1:20.61) when driven by the same driver. So I asked myself, "how could the RX-8 do so poorly at Tsukuba"? Then as this thread developed, things have now become more clear:

- S2000 being driven by the best driver of the bunch
- G35c & RSX were of a higher tuned spec, not your normal US variant
- RX-8's times at Tsukuba seem to be in same ball park as Gan-san's original 4 lap "getting to know the car" spin from a previous BM video. Perhaps an indication that the driver wasn't pushing the RX-8 at 10/10th's in the track shoot out.

Things that make you say hmmmmm...

Here are somw low res rips for now. I'll work on a better rip, or Gamera will probably get the better rip by next week.

http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4289934725

btw: in response to RX-Hachi,

July:
1. S2000 driver = Gan-san (S2k was the best track car here, period)
2. RX-8 driver = Takuta
5. Skyline Coupe driver = Nakaya

May:
1. M3 driver = Nakaya (barely beat G35C on last straight)
2. Skyline Coupe driver = Takuya
3. 350Z driver = Gan-san (lost to his son in a G35C)

Like may have said and I will echo one last time: BM drivers are pros, and they are as competitive as anyone in the motor sport.

2) Skyline coupe = G35C higher spec? I don't think so~ The US G35C and JDM Skyline Coupe are identical, with the exception of the location of the steering wheel, material of leather inserts (leather vs suede), badging and US G35C gets better tires than the Skyline Coupe. (Michelin Pilot Sport vs Potenza RE040) I'll give you this, the Skyline Coupe had lighter weight wheels found on the US 350Z Track models.

3) Perhaps RX-8 time could get better. Like I mentioned before, no one has gotten less than 1'11 with the RX-8 on Tsukuba. Not Option, not Mazda drivers, not Best Motoring (multiple drivers), and no other publication to date. The G35C has been in the 1'09 range since day one, and both Integra R, S2000 and WRX have posted better times on Tsukuba before.

The point is not to dismiss the RX-8 as a track car. The RX-8 is a very fun yet still practical car to drive at a very reasonable cost. There is no reason why the 1'11 time should be frawn upon. When was the last time a $24k sedan has posted that kind of time on Tsukuba?

maniac the link is broken.hmm maybe because he is offline?

oops, just fixed it.

Originally posted by Skyline Maniac
The point is not to dismiss the RX-8 as a track car. The RX-8 is a very fun yet still practical car to drive at a very reasonable cost. When was the last time a $24k sedan has posted that kind of time on Tsukuba?

Skyline... you say you're not trying to dis the RX-8, yet you don't seem able to post a message without slighting the 8. Why is it always necesarry for you to have to "prove" with your posts that your G35 is superior? Comparing the RX-8 to a sedan or calling it "practical" is not slighting it? Yeah, right, the G35 is "amazing" and the RX-8 is "practical". If you're really not trying to dis the 8, then stop making underhanded comments like the ones above. Just enjoy your ride, and let us enjoy ours.

Originally posted by Skyline Maniac
The point is not to dismiss the RX-8 as a track car. The RX-8 is a very fun yet still practical car to drive at a very reasonable cost. There is no reason why the 1'11 time should be frawn upon. When was the last time a $24k sedan has posted that kind of time on Tsukuba?

The RX8 has a lot of potential at least get pass the Integra. Just reduce the body rool with adding Mazdaspeed shocks and antiroll bar. If you add the new brakes and stuff... 1'09" No problem

Originally posted by javahut


Skyline... you say you're not trying to dis the RX-8, yet you don't seem able to post a message without slighting the 8. Why is it always necesarry for you to have to "prove" with your posts that your G35 is superior? Comparing the RX-8 to a sedan or calling it "practical" is not slighting it? Yeah, right, the G35 is "amazing" and the RX-8 is "practical". If you're really not trying to dis the 8, then stop making underhanded comments like the ones above. Just enjoy your ride, and let us enjoy ours.

Now you guys are just picking bones. If it's got 4 doors and seats full size passengers, then calling it a sport sedan is more appropriate then a sport coupe, hatchback, or pure sport car. (Coupe = 2 doors) Why would you take the words 'sedan' and 'practical' as a dissing? These are essential features of the RX-8, that separates it from other sporty cars out there. The ability to be practical, sporty, and looks good doing all of the above. I don't see how you took it as an 'underhand' comment...... So the next time someone tells me I have a practical 4 seater I should flip out at them as well?

Listen, the RX-8 practical - and it is. It's got 4 doors, seats 4 FULL SIZE adults, and apparently rides fairly comfortable. That's also how the car is portraited in the video. THe BM staff kept saying "For a practical car that can carry 4 full size passengers, this car is not bad." (implying the performance of the car on track) That's a QUOTE from automobile professional in Japan, not from me.

I have tried my best to avoid personal opinions in this thread, all I states was the facts as I know it. There are BM staff bashing here, rumors about how the RX-8 might not be the 250hp 6MT, the G35C might be modded, the S2000 driver is the best, BM is biased....... a lot of false info flying around. All I did was replying to those comments with facts I have. I have not deliberatedly skipping positive comments about the RX-8 or focus on its negatives. I know I'd get hammered once awhile here for speaking up about the G35C, but some of you are going overboard over this thread. I spoke up about the G35C because many posters were most interested in the comparison between the RX-8 and the G35C. I share my knowledge of the G35C since I actually have one. I'd share my thoughts of the RX-8, but I havn't driven one yet. All I got on the RX-8 is some pamphlets, magazines, reviews, and this video that no one else on the forum seems to have.

Why are some of you accusing me of bashing RX-8 when I shared this info. Understandably the results from the video did not favor the RX-8 on paper, but don't flame me for that. I got the BM video, it's about the RX-8, so I took my time, typed it out and thought some of the RX-8 fans might want to know about it. (Great info IMO) Now just watch the damn video and leave me alone. :mad:

Originally posted by takahashi


The RX8 has a lot of potential at least get pass the Integra. Just reduce the body rool with adding Mazdaspeed shocks and antiroll bar. If you add the new brakes and stuff... 1'09" No problem

Remember, despite being a Type-S, the RX-8 is bone stock. I am pretty sure a Mazdaspeed RX-8 would have no trouble finding 1'09 on Tsukuba. The chasis of the RX-8 is much stiffer than the RX-7, and the flywheel and engine components are all light weight. I am sure Mazda will offer tuned versionn of the RX-8 in the near future. The new RX-8 is just the beginning. ;)

Could we Please have the avi

It's been posted

http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4289934725

Originally posted by Skyline Maniac
2) Skyline coupe = G35C higher spec? I don't think so~ The US G35C and JDM Skyline Coupe are identical, with the exception of the location of the steering wheel, material of leather inserts (leather vs suede), badging and US G35C gets better tires than the Skyline Coupe. (Michelin Pilot Sport vs Potenza RE040) I'll give you this, the Skyline Coupe had lighter weight wheels found on the US 350Z Track models.


what about this:

Unfortunately no, the JDM Skyline that was used in the video had standard aluminum pedals, better tires, Nismo suspension tweaking and ECU tuning that gives the same power as the 350Z. So the Skyline Coupe is like a souped up G35C. So I wonder whether or not a G35C would be able to do the same on Tsukuba given the same conditions.

notice the words: "the JDM Skyline used in the video"

so which is correct?

edit: we didn't make up this "rumor." It came from freshalloy

:D Guess the FA guys missed the "J/k" in the end. It's a common knowledge that the G35C is better equipped than the JDM Skyline Coupe on FA forum. Besides the aluminum pedals, and suede seats (which some people prefer) the G35C is likely a better handling machine with its Pilot Sport tires.

No, there is no Nismo part in the Skyline Coupe they tested, there is no ECU tuning, there is no suspension upgrade, and Potenza RE040 tires are generally rated below Pilot Sports. I am glad they used the Potenza on the Skyline Coupe though, it gives a more fair comparison between the Skyline, 350Z, RX-8, and Integra.

How about the common sense thing we do here....

Just wait for a few more reviews to come out (the car is merely a month away), and I'm sure it will be tracked with the G35 and hopefully some others like the 330 and A4, who knows what else in there..

And we will see the results.

If it proves to weather like the C&D evaluation did for the most part, which would be the G35C being slightly ahead of the RX-8 around a track, then we can say BM sucks, or that the Skyline Coupe driven there was different than a US spec G35C.

However if it winds up being the latter, and that the G35C repeats the performance shown on the BM video, then you will have a good vindication.

Either way, it's just another review. Drive the car and find out for yourself if you appreciate the power, speed, and handling. Even the interior appointments, amenities, and build quality.

Skyline, here's a word to the wise, and please don't take offense -- you need to watch your wording. When you started this thread you provided a good insight on the video. Facts would have been just great. I try to do this when I'm posting articles of any kind -- just take a peek at the search in the Media section. I merely post the article up and let the discussion run its course. I would appreciate if you'd do the same.

While you may not have intended it, your review came across to me as "The RX-8 lost to the G35C in *every* category, and don't even try to question BM because they are great drivers. RX-8 buyers should REALLY take notice of this!" Every successive post has been a step in the same direction, to push the car you drive and love, to people that don't know. It's really just blatant advertising and in poor taste, imho.

In the future, I think it's better if you simply provided a copy of the video (which I know is right now not possible) and let everybody make up their own minds on it. What you have given us is a 'review of a review' and while that's not necessarily a bad thing... you know how the story goes when the 3rd man comes from over the hill to tell the same story... it's different.

Anyhoo.... while I'd love to entertain this topic further it's really quite pointless. There is no English translation, the videos provided give little insight as to what you've seen, and I am unsure about what the differences in the Japanese spec vs US spec (if any) there are. Which makes it on my part as an observer... rather pointless to partake in discussion.

Like I said... wait until the US reviews come out, read them thoroughly and we will see what happens from there. If you guys care to beat this topic to death feel free... I just have ceased to see the point in it. Lack of information and a clip of video in Japanese does not tell me a story, it merely gives me a snapshot of one part in time. And without other independant reviews to combat or agree with the consensus reached in the BM video again... this is pointless.

Cheers all.

Originally posted by Skyline Maniac


I have tried my best to avoid personal opinions in this thread, all I states was the facts as I know it. There are BM staff bashing here, rumors about how the RX-8 might not be the 250hp 6MT, the G35C might be modded, the S2000 driver is the best, BM is biased....... a lot of false info flying around.



Sky,

There you go AGAIN. Caught you again in another lie.

You state that there is "a lot of fase info flying around". The G35 was modded, ACCORDING to your own words here on the FRESH ALLOY FORUM. (http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB25&Number=67426638&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1) Here are your exact words, "CPV35SukairainKupe". Unfortunately no, the JDM Skyline that was used in the video had standard aluminum pedals, better tires, Nismo suspension tweaking and ECU tuning that gives the same power as the 350Z. So the Skyline Coupe is like a souped up G35C. So I wonder whether or not a G35C would be able to do the same on Tsukuba given the same conditions.

Sounds to me the G35 was modded. And you doubt whether the G35c would be able to do the same given the same conditions.

If you want to post, tell the truth. I have respect for whoever posts here, If they honestly come here and it be sincerely and truthful in purpose. You try to do that, but you're not quite there yet. ;)


Edit:
Dang,
chenpin beat me to it, while I was in the middle of the post. Oh, well. Instead of deleting my post, it's just more evidence against Skyline Mechanic.

Originally posted by Skyline Maniac


I spoke up about the G35C because many posters were most interested in the comparison between the RX-8 and the G35C. I share my knowledge of the G35C since I actually have one. I'd share my thoughts of the RX-8, but I havn't driven one yet. All I got on the RX-8 is some pamphlets, magazines, reviews, and this video that no one else on the forum seems to have.

Why are some of you accusing me of bashing RX-8 when I shared this info. Understandably the results from the video did not favor the RX-8 on paper, but don't flame me for that. I got the BM video, it's about the RX-8, so I took my time, typed it out and thought some of the RX-8 fans might want to know about it. (Great info IMO) Now just watch the damn video and leave me alone. :mad:

Skyline

I for one appreciate your comments, even if they are a little biased. Without objective counterpoints, this forum would degenerate quickly into the Virtual Church of Mazda, devoted to Rx-8 worship. No harm in challenging the performance attributes of the car, since its clearly being marketed as a sports car. Not to say that you'll convert us, but keep it up anyhow.

Originally posted by RX-8 Zoomster

...The G35 was modded, ACCORDING to your own words here on the FRESH ALLOY FORUM. (http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB25&Number=67426638&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1) Here are your exact words, "CPV35SukairainKupe".

Sounds to me the G35 was modded. And you doubt whether the G35c would be able to do the same given the same conditions. ...
Skyline added that I did not see the 'j/k' after his post.

However, when I posed my question, I used the quote feature built into the UBBThreads software at FreshAlloy. Thus, this 'j/k' was added after my question was posed.

Methinks a conspiracy afoot :)

Originally posted by Rexor


Skyline

I for one appreciate your comments, even if they are a little biased. Without objective counterpoints, this forum would degenerate quickly into the Virtual Church of Mazda, devoted to Rx-8 worship. No harm in challenging the performance attributes of the car, since its clearly being marketed as a sports car. Not to say that you'll convert us, but keep it up anyhow. I love to hear about cars of all sorts and counterpoints.

But a 'review of a review' does not serve much purpose without seeing it in its entirety. The only person who has seen it is Skyline. Not a lot of people know the background of the magazine, regardless of what they are 'reputed' to be known as.

I'll stick with my Evos, CARs, Car and Drivers, and Road and Tracks to get my information. When more reviews surface I'm sure we will see the good points and bad points bought about against any competitor. Most times it's already been echoed with the reviews done on the pre-production models. However, we really are beating a dead horse... I have not heard of BM until this thread arose, so I am ambivalent into what to make of them... time will tell when more reviews surface on production model RX-8s.

Herc: I admit I might be alittle over-enthusiastic about this video I got. Being that the RX-8 is one month from launching, I really thought a video like this would be helpful for those interested in motor sporting with the RX. While you have repeatedly point out this video is completely meaningless, you and I both know perfectly well that's just denial at best. ;) While my wording are probably biased to a certain extend, I do try my best to provide useful info to fellow auto enthusiasts on this forum. You kept saying that "Wait till the car comes out and then decide~" That's a good point, except you'd never get to push the car to its limits on a test drive with a brand new un-broken in car. Many on the fence waiting on a final decision will find this video informative and useful.

As far as the video clips, the victor and final ranking is determined in the first lap of the race. (You see the S2k up front, Skyline passing WRX and RX8, WRX passing RX8) With the exception of a good battle between RX-8 and Integra, that's pretty much how the race ended. Translation? I understood 1/2 the Japanese and I have translated as much for the forum as I could understand. Now if you want to keep saying it's pointless, that's fine with me. Just keep in mind that when C&D review came out months ago, you were the most enthusiastic member to brag about it all over the place. I suppose the C&D review wasn't as pointless then, eh? ;)

Rexor: Thanks for the support, I appreciate it. After hours of ripping this damn video, researching, and translating... it's good to see someone enjoying the video.

Originally posted by Hercules
I love to hear about cars of all sorts and counterpoints.

But a 'review of a review' does not serve much purpose without seeing it in its entirety. The only person who has seen it is Skyline. Not a lot of people know the background of the magazine, regardless of what they are 'reputed' to be known as.


Man, Herc, you are a lot more ignorant than I thought possible. Ask ANYBODY in the JDM scene what BM is, who Tsuchiya , Kurosawa, and Nakaya is. Do you know where the RX-8 is engineered, designed, and built? JAPAN! That's right~ from a place where you hardly know anything about while accusing their most reputable automobile publication and their most well respected motor sport drivers. You got beef with me and want to discredit me and my effort, that's fine. (since we've had our difference, I understand) However, if you keep talking crap about BM, its staff and conspiracy theories, you'll end up looking like a fool and be mocked for denial and paranoia. If you got some info I don't, then go ahead and site it~ Feed me some information that says the RX-8 can outrun a S2000, WRX, Integra R, or G35C on a track, mountain pass, drag strip or whereever.

Why can't you just accept the fact the G35C, WRX, Integra R, S2000 beat the RX-8 on track fair and square. You can't expect the RX-8 to perform like a supercar, carry 4 full size passengers, and still cost the price it come with. Be proud of what the car is, not what you wish it to be. If you keep insisting the RX-8 HAS TO be faster than a @*#!&$^!@ on track, all you will end up with is regrets and distaste.

btw: What do you mean "But a 'review of a review' does not serve much purpose without seeing it in its entirety."? With the attitude you are giving me on this thread..... Do you really expect me to go rip the whole video, spend time translating and subtitling it just so you can 'evaluate' how pointless it is? Forget it. Sheesh, if you don't care for the video, then don't even watch it. You have been pretty clear that you don't give a rats ass about BM, it's video and my review, so why not just skip it and save me the lecture. :mad:

Skyline on this forum you've been pretty civil but after realizing that you are Skyline2 of FreshAlloy fame... you really just lost all credibility when posting your 'objective posts.' I just noticed it today when I clicked on your profile in FreshAlloy.

To sum it up... I think it's best said by you, so please... allow me:

Which means absolutely nothing, because pretty much ANYTHING is better than a Mazda. If I win a RX-8 in a car lottery, I would get rid of it the next day. For the longest time I thought Mazda made cars with degradable material, so as the car age, it is DESIGNED to fall apart so Mazda dealerships can make profit on the repair. (Since they have to discount every car on the lot in order to sell them) Besides, why are they comparing 2X 2 door authentic GT's with a 4 door strange looking bubble top Mazda? Shouldn't the test consiste of: RX8, 350Z, S2000, WRX Sti and Evo VIII? Whoever pick these three cars for comparison test should have their laptop computer taken away and place on journalism probation for awhile. That's like comparing a Station wagon, a SUV and a unreliable overpriced minivan.

Actually I have been bashing Mazda since before RX-8 was even announced. I could careless if the car finishes 1st or 100th. If it's a Mazda, I'd bash it. If someone drives a Mazda, I'd feel sorry for them. If someone wants a Mazda, then I'd try like hell to save their soul.

People keep bragging about this Renesis engie. What the heck, I know motorcycle engines that rev higher and have more torque than this gimmick rotary. Throw some turbos and we'll talk. As it stands the Renesis is one of the WORST engines on the market: Pathetic torque, peaky power that required a 9000rpm redline, embarrassing gas milage considering the weight of the car and the size of the engine. This is one of those engines that give 'combustion engines' a bad name. I think electric engine can produce better performace than Renesis.

Now then, I wonder how much money Mazda had to give C&D to write that article? A car that gets its ass kicked in performance, acceleration, power, torque, and on the track..... yet gets better scores on engine / transmission / fun to drive category!?

The last time I checked, fun to drive doesn't mean getting blinded by the G35C LED taillights all day long. GTV..... get a new job with a better car company. Once Mazda sales starts going south again, more people will be layed off. (Ford will likely start chopping Mazda employees first)


Now I've always given compliments to the Infiniti/Nissan for making a great car in the G35. In fact, I did my own test on the G35 Coupe a while back and again, praised it in many regards.

With the attitude you exude, it's clear to me that you hate Mazda, you hate the RX-8, and that you're here with no more mind than to wait what is it... "try like hell to save our souls."?

I have been for some time, very patient towards posts, I make my suggestions in posting guidelines, and over all... been pretty civil.

You started on this forum trolling, bringing up topics like lack of torque, safety concerns, etc, all that have been addressed. With this video you present to us a video that *might* be worthwhile in watching, and also might not be. Thus far C&D has placed the G35 ahead of the RX-8 around a track by a SLIGHT margin. Now when you jump across to Japan and the RX-8 suddenly loses lap times by insane margins (as you say this video portrays, and I'll believe), loses every other test like slalom, lane change, autocross, etc... all because you have given us an 'unbiased' source with your 'objective' review... I'll call you on it.

Your history of hatred for Mazda has fortunately been brought to my attention by RX-8 Zoomster (thanks Mark) and I never put the 2+2 together to realize it was the same person who I tried to debate on FreshAlloy, found MYSELF out of line from frustration (because... it didn't matter what I said... Mazda sucks!), and finally left due to my own behavior and the lack of debate there.

You Skyline, will *never* give Mazda credit for the RX-8 in any regard. It's very much like life... you will *always* find somebody to agree with your point of view and thus 'show us the light.' Given your past history on this forum by starting posts that lead only to controversy and irritation, and your wonderful contributions at FreshAlloy under your various personas, I really believe the time for debate is over, and that you really have no place at these forums.

When perhaps you can look past the fact the rotary is a gimmick, the RX-8 is unsafe and slow, that the G35C is the end-all-be-all of automobiles, and that Mazda is the most terrible company on the planet (as you've numerous times explained to via FreshAlloy), it might serve us (being the forum members) to hear some of your valid points, friendly debate, and keen observations.

The only observation you've constantly made is simply alluding to the fact that the RX-8 and Mazda are 'subpar' in their automobiles and performance, especially when compared to the G35. And while that's a valid point, you never bring valid information to the table except just enough with which to troll. My observation is simply this: you aren't, and have not been, a contributing member to this forum in any productive way since your first post, you have a wicked hatred for Mazda and its products, and you continually push threads into a path that leads ultimately (as this one has) into turmoil and chaos.

Again, please refrain from posting, as you haven't a leg to stand on. I make no motion to having you banned, I just simply think you do us a favor if instead of turning this forum into a moderation nightmare and becoming counterproductive to those that seek lively and educational debate (for pros OR cons) on this car, that you stop posting unless you can reform yourself to the items aforementioned.

I am sure that after just skimming some of your lovely posts from FreshAlloy though... that many forum members will begin to understand why I have posted this message. And if not, I apologise in advance to those members.

Cheers and good night.

Originally posted by Skyline Maniac



RX-8 Zoomster:
Did you guys all missed the "j/k" at the end of that exact post? (second time I mentioned this on the topic if you look back 5 posts) - That means JUST KIDDING in case the expression is not universal. Research all you want, in the end what you'll find is exactly what I have been telling you. If you insist that the FA info is more accurate, then all I can say to you is "Jokes on you." Again, your accusation for me is completely uncalled for. I'd appreciate it if you can do alittle more research and alittle less doubt before you start pointing your fingers. While I might have my reasons against Mazda Co. I have never irresponsibly accuse Mazda or RX-8 or anything false on this forum. (Now if you'd just delete that last message, I'll delete this one. No harm done)



Sky,

If the j/k meant "just kidding" then I overlooked that. If that is the case then I apologize for calling you a liar. I know you are adamant about your G35c and your dislike for Mazda due to your unfortunate experience with them. I don't blame your hesitancy towards Mazda products.

I also know you have a history of "subliminally" plugging the G35. Hey, you love your car. I admire your fortitude in defending what is a great car, the G35 and pointing out there are alternative buying choices for some. I admit it is a great automobile. My 2nd choice by the way.

As in regards to deleting your post and my previous post, my apology should surfice. I need the post count. ;)

Originally posted by RX-8 Zoomster


Sky,

If the j/k meant "just kidding" then I overlooked that. If that is the case then I apologize for calling you a liar. I know you are adamant about your G35c and your dislike for Mazda due to your unfortunate experience with them. I don't blame your hesitancy towards Mazda products.

I also know you have a history of "subliminally" plugging the G35. Hey, you love your car. I admire your fortitude in defending what is a great car, the G35 and pointing out there are alternative buying choices for some. I admit it is a great automobile. My 2nd choice by the way.

As in regards to deleting your post and my previous post, my apology should surfice. I need the post count. ;) That 'j/k' was edited in.

When I posed the question, I used the quote feature built into UBBThreads. It copied what Skyline/CPV/etc wrote word for word. I didn't edit it.

The 'j/k' was added after I bought the topic up here and he reviewed it and then made the changes to his post accordingly on FreshAlloy.

I do not know whether or not the Japanese spec G35C is any different than the US spec one... but I'd like some proof in that regard. When I posted it initially I didn't make ANY assumption... I simply said "here's what I got off FreshAlloy, take it as you will." Skyline saw that and edited his message.

SM,

I don't really see all this "BM bashing" etc. as you state it. All I see that most here agree that this BM video is clearly not the "final word" on anything. Since you are clearly aquainted with BM, you will also know that results of BM videos are often debated in many forums. This does not mean we are "bashing BM" so don't get so worked up over nothing. It happens everywhere and for good reason too. BM results are pretty weird sometimes.

Case in point (S2000 debut video?):
1. Euro M roadster
2. Super 7
3. RX7
4. 3.0L NSX
5. Integra Type R
6. Sylvia Spec-R
7. S2000

Heh, seems Integra beat the S2000. What happened in this video? Why did this happen? Different driver? Different conditions? The driver of the S2000 also stated it was underpowered and "too soft" for track use. What gives? This is just one of the many many examples.

So what does this mean? Are these videos worthless? No, I don't think so. What I love about the BM videos is that you can really see the cars side by side on the road/track. But really, I don't really draw much else. I don't ever conclusively say that car is better or whatever nor do I rule out any car as being "sucky".

oh wow i never made that connection. yes this guy is the number one mazda basher on freshalloy since i've been (lurking) there for the past almost year. the g35c still beat the rx8 in bm's test though.

Originally posted by Hercules
That 'j/k' was edited in.

When I posed the question, I used the quote feature built into UBBThreads. It copied what Skyline/CPV/etc wrote word for word. I didn't edit it.

The 'j/k' was added after I bought the topic up here and he reviewed it and then made the changes to his post accordingly on FreshAlloy.

I do not know whether or not the Japanese spec G35C is any different than the US spec one... but I'd like some proof in that regard. When I posted it initially I didn't make ANY assumption... I simply said "here's what I got off FreshAlloy, take it as you will." Skyline saw that and edited his message.

heh, that quote didn't sound like a joke to me. weird sense of humor?

Haha, as a fellow FA member, you'd know my hatred for Mazda USA runs deeper than blood. That being said, I don't believe I have acted inappropriately on this particular forum since the beginning. I approached the RX-8 forum with the view that "What if I look at the RX-8 as an automobile instead of a Mazda product?" Then things became clear for me that the RX-8 is a fine automobile, and Mazda dealerships and corporate Mazda USA is only dragging down this product due to their incompetence. With that understanding, I post on this forum without any of the Mazda bashing. (Not RX-8 bashing, mind you)

If Herc wants to dig up my posts on FA, that's fine with me. On different forums, I approach matters differently. I don't deny hating Mazda Co, there is a long history behind it, but I would not dream of elaborating it here. For my conducts on RX-8 forum, I believe I have been more than fair. While I might be biased towards Infiniti, I am not afraid to give a car credit where it's deserving. The RX8 is an very interesting car, a very well balanced mixture of sport and practicality. I am not here to bash the car~ I am here to study it and learn about it- NOT as a Mazda, but as an automobile.

Herc, I am not going to bother digging up your posts on FA~ let's just say if you ever purchased a G35C, you probably wouldn't want to rejoin the G35 forum under the same user name . ;) You want to bash me? Fine, start a new thread. Want to start a petition to ban me here again? Go ahead and PM the webmaster. BUT for the love of God, stop jacking my Best Motoring thread.

btw: chenpin~ weird sense of humor? :D That post on FA was supposed to give Herc a good night sleep and leave this thread alone for awhile. Guess too many people saw it and backfired.

For all you FA lurkers, I don't know how, or why it took you guys 3 months to figure out who I am. :D I think someone figured it out the second day I was here.... but that was ancient history and I guessed nobody remembered. If you guys have to force me to say what I really really think, I'll quote you from my FA post:

" The BIGGEST PROBLEM with the RX-8 is that it's a MAZDA product. If Acura, Lexus, Honda or Toyota made the RX-8, it would be a hot cake. "

Anyhow, I came to the forum because I was interested in the RX-8. I hate Mazda USA with my soul, but I am not going to discredit the 8 here because the car deserves some merits. (Did I even mention my fav street car used to be the FD?)

I sorta thought about you being Skyline2, but dam, that change in tone and objective reasoning was so different. Kinda like jerkel/hyde or something. heh.

anyways, you prob have your own valid reasons for hating Mazda but come on, calling the Renesis the WORST engine ever? And the RX-8 is a "strang looking bubble top Mazda"? Thats uncalled for.

Originally posted by Hercules
That 'j/k' was edited in.

When I posed the question, I used the quote feature built into UBBThreads. It copied what Skyline/CPV/etc wrote word for word. I didn't edit it.

The 'j/k' was added after I bought the topic up here and he reviewed it and then made the changes to his post accordingly on FreshAlloy.



Hmmmm! Edited in. The plot thickens. I didn't think I saw that j/k in that post initially. Good move, SKY to cover your tracks. Maybe I should recant my apology. ;)

Also, like chenpin, it doesn't look like a joke. But I'll give SKY the benefit of the doubt.

And why is that exactly SM?

Because you'd flame me again for my giving Mazda a chance?

However I'd beg you keep in mind, that the posts I dug up were moreso about 'gimmick rotaries' and how the RX-8 sucked than about your hating Mazda. Hell, even I hate Mazda's customer service. I'm making plans now to finance thru an outside lender because I know when time comes, Mazda will try to screw me on the payments.

As I said before.... I don't doubt the Skyline Coupe beat the RX-8. I never denied it. I just asked for some information (you know... proof) between the US spec versions and Japanese spec versions of the G35/Skyline Coupe. I also suggested (and I know it's ludicrus) that a driver *might* have an off day. It's crazy... I know. But to that, you jumped to the conclusion that I was putting down BM and well, I rather saw where the thread was headed.

I am not putting down the drivers at BM. I am not saying their credentials are sub par. I simply am not informed about it (admittedly so), and asked for some factual information that you will not provide. I am not a part of the "JDM" scene. I simply enjoy cars of all kinds (the G35C included) and don't need to race them against anybody but myself.

Now who knows... I might buy a G35 Coupe. I've said many times before that I have not yet driven the RX-8 and should it not put as big a smile on my face as the G35 did when I drove it... then I will be in the Infiniti dealership THE NEXT DAY. Does this ring a bell? Of course not. You have a selective memory and the only thing that serves you well is to start threads that get immediately trashy (with a nudge in that direction from yourself of course), take offense at even a hint of disagreement, and keep your self-serving bias that Mazda sucks in your background because let's face it.... even if you're 'trying' to learn about the RX-8 as an automobile... it's obvious you never forget it's a Mazda with what..

A gimmick rotary.

Give me a break on your attempt to redeem. I've seen your tone escalate more quickly than a whiney toddler on threads here and at FA, and as a result I find myself more and more irritated. On FA I rather blew my top, embarassed myself, and did not return for some time because it is generally not in my nature to resort to name calling. I take facts, I poke holes in stories, and people don't like it. You obviously don't.

To any of my simple questions, and it's not a fact of "I can't believe the RX-8 lost!", it's more like.... I want to be more educated. Except unlike you, I don't really *hate* any car company. If somebody makes a product that's worth noting, I'll give them credit.

Oh, and that family car I drive... well it was my second car, and I've had it for the last 5 years. I have saved my pennies and dimes to get into a nice car and after doing my homework I decided on this car. I know it's not enough for you that I drove it because of necessity... you know... I am not like you where I have driven awesome kickass cars my entire life and thus, can judge others on the merit of what they drive currently.

Skyline, again.. you bring NOTHING valid to discussion, no valid points, and no FRIENDLY debate. All your posts contain a "but", in which case it generally refers to some fallibility of the RX-8 or Mazda as a whole. I can deal with that. But when you lead threads into a path that is pointless and arguementative then you really have no business posting here.

If you really want to learn something about the RX-8 as a car... just let the forum members who would *remotely* consider this car as an option ask their questions and have them answered honestly. I may be biased because I have money on the car and I *hope* it's a success -- but I'm not blinded. I am fair to every car I have driven in the past, and to cars that I will drive in the future. I am fair when I give information to those asking for answers to their questions. I do not make this car out to be something it is not. It has its highs, and its lows.

You seem to focus mainly on the lows and express your view continually thru the posts you have made. Thus if you *truly* want to learn something... first learn to stop posting on this forum. And start learning to read it.

Geez, the j/k was added about 10 seconds so Herc will enjoy it.(The post was without the j/k sign for appx 8 minutes) You guys weren't supposed to see the FA post 2 o'clock in the morning. Only Herc was supposed to see that post. :D Now can any of you swear that you even saw that post on FA without the j/k mark at the end? (I think only Herc and GTV_Boy saw it)

The idea is that Herc will run around telling people the Skyline Coupe was heavily modified, thus beating the RX-8. Then me and my co-workers have another topic to laugh about over lunch break like we usually do. It was an inside joke. It didn't look like a joke? Well, you gotta give Herc some credit. I can't say stuff like the G35C there had a 500hp turbo charged RB26DETT engine, now can I? ;)

Originally posted by chenpin
I sorta thought about you being Skyline2, but dam, that change in tone and objective reasoning was so different. Kinda like jerkel/hyde or something. heh.

anyways, you prob have your own valid reasons for hating Mazda but come on, calling the Renesis the WORST engine ever? And the RX-8 is a "strang looking bubble top Mazda"? Thats uncalled for.
That's an opinion I can deal with, even here.

But when you bring no facts to the table... you're worthless. And Skyline is merely the epitome of that worthlessness at this point.

As per the looks... that's in the eye of the beholder. I like the way the G35C looks, but the RX-8 better. Some don't. To each his own on that.

Like the saying goes... "I don't know art... but I know what I like."

I like the RX-8's appearance. Skyline doesn't. That's fine by me.

But I also appreciate the rotary. Skyline doesn't. Yet he's made no mention as to why, and that folks... is trolling.

Originally posted by Skyline Maniac
Geez, the j/k was added about 10 seconds so Herc will enjoy it.(The post was without the j/k sign for appx 8 minutes) You guys weren't supposed to see the FA post 2 o'clock in the morning. Only Herc was supposed to see that post. :D Now can any of you swear that you even saw that post on FA without the j/k mark at the end? (I think only Herc and GTV_Boy saw it)

The idea is that Herc will run around telling people the Skyline Coupe was heavily modified, thus beating the RX-8. Then me and my co-workers have another topic to laugh about over lunch break like we usually do. It was an inside joke. It didn't look like a joke? Well, you gotta give Herc some credit. I can't say stuff like the G35C there had a 500hp turbo charged RB26DETT engine, now can I? ;)

If I can quote MYSELF...
Taken from the FreshAlloy forums, when I asked if the Skyline Coupe is the same as the G35 Coupe in the states:

Unfortunately no, the JDM Skyline that was used in the video had standard aluminum pedals, better tires, Nismo suspension tweaking and ECU tuning that gives the same power as the 350Z. So the Skyline Coupe is like a souped up G35C. So I wonder whether or not a G35C would be able to do the same on Tsukuba given the same conditions.

So there's a bit of info... take it as you will.

Originally posted by Skyline Maniac
For all you FA lurkers, I don't know how, or why it took you guys 3 months to figure out who I am. :D I think someone figured it out the second day I was here.... but that was ancient history and I guessed nobody remembered.


Skyline Maniac (CPV35SukairainKupe, Skyline2, Sukairain, V35, and SSS),

I remembered you. Trouble is, I do remember. That's why I take most of your threads here, with a grain of salt. That's also why I reminded people here who you were. Thought people deserved to know the history of mighty SKY, and disclose the real man behind your words posted here.

We had our "friendly" discussions when I was a regular poster (Stlr#1fan) on the Fresh Alloy Forum. My last post was defending my purchase of the RX-8 and the great history of Mazda cars my family has had with the 626, Protege and Mazda 6s. I seem to recall on that thread and many others, how much you thought Mazda sucked and whatever was built by them, including "your worst-ever" engine Renesis, was a POS.

Originally posted by Hercules
Skyline, again.. you bring NOTHING valid to discussion, no valid points, and no FRIENDLY debate. All your posts contain a "but", in which case it generally refers to some fallibility of the RX-8 or Mazda as a whole. I can deal with that. But when you lead threads into a path that is pointless and arguementative then you really have no business posting here.



Thanks Herc. I couldn't have said it better myself. At least that's what I've been trying to convey, with all my previous posts, to all the forum members here.

Great weather we're having.

I think the problem with SM is that he does not really know what he is talking about. Maybe he has not driven enough car and experience many different kind of automobiles. Maybe Skyline Coupe is his first "Sporty" car? Most or even maybe all of his argument is based purely on reseach not experience. All he can say is that this publication say this, this publication says that.

Like Herc said, his opinion and argument is worthless, there is no quality in it. Isn't it funny that most of his opinion and argunment based on Best Motoring? Is this all he can say, "According to Best Motoring....." Don't get me wrong, I love BM and I understand they are one of the best publication. I've been collecting them for quite some times, and I know results can be different in the track battle. Same driver, same track, different day will produce different result. You can't expect Michael's Ferrari to beat Ralf's William's BMW all the time, can you? I've seen S2000 came last in one of the Best Motoring battle, beaten by a similar car line up(minus RX8 and G35C).

Hey SM, what is wrong with your Skyline? Why everyone should know how good is it? If it is that good, most people should know about it, you don't have to keep reminding us. Maybe if you drive M3 or 911 you will learn to calm down a little because you are confident enough that the car itself can do the talking for you.

PS: I never hate you SM, I really appreciate your effort in entertaining us. It's been a while since we have a thread as active as this one. So please never stop responding to us and yeah, remind us too that the RX8 is a great car. Even though whatever the RX8 can do, the SUKAIRAIN KUPE can do it better.

Originally posted by rxeightr
Great weather we're having. Finally, some intellegent, thought provoking meaning to this thread.

Wow, post some videos of a real track battle that RX-8 cames in second to last and you get hammered. Man, that's pretty harsh~ I think Gan-san and his son owe me a pitcher of sake next time I go to Japan.

Bring nothing to the discussion eh? While I don't know much more about the RX-8 than you two, I do know a heck lot more about JDM info, G35C, BM and various publications that came out regarding the JDM RX-8. Now if you guys want to say stuff like I don't contribute, then you better have some videos to upload, some exclusive info you'd like to share, or a test drive of the RX-8 that gives your opinion some weight around here. Until then, keep writing the "torque is not needed" "C&D says it's fun to drive" and "I swear this car can outhandle $#@*& on track" posts that seems just so much more well informed and fact based.

You two need to take some chill pills . If you don't care about what I say or what BM video shows, then why bother wasting bandwidth responding to this thread? You want arguments and objective statements? Then skip my review all together and just watch the damn tape. Then if want to hear them saying good things about the RX-8? Take some Japanese lessons, airmail order a damn BM video and check it out yourselves.

My arguments are about research and not experience? Winning and Hercules: have you guys ever driven the RX8, on the road, on the track or anywhere for that matter? Do you have the RX-8 sitting in the garage you are waxing on the weekends? You went on a road trip with 4 full size adults and want to share with us how comfortable the car was? - what makes you think you are any more informed about the RX-8 than I am? Base on your theory, maybe we should all stop posting here all together until we actually have driven the car extensively.

My arguments contains the word "BUT" and that's causing you sleepless nights? Listen, if you disagree with my opinions, then debate with me on the issues instead of dishing out personal insults and avoiding the issue. Let me just ask you these two questions: Does dissing me or BM staff make your dear RX-8 any faster on the track? Does dissing me make my arguments any weaker? You want fair discussion, then do your research, get your source, and discuss. If you want a flame war, bring it to FA Off Topic~ ;) You know what would happen there. It's funny to see you guys dissing me in this thread, yet accusing me of not bring anything substential to the topic. I don't recall you ripping videos and review them for fellow forum members.

chenpin: the S2000 debut video is a good topic. If you go back and watch it, you will hear Gan-san saying the S2000 was the worst he's driven and the chasis had certain issues. (No really, go back and watch the tape and tell me what they said about the S2000)

I find it interesting that SM could actually hate a car company with 'his soul.' That seems a little odd. At any rate, he likes Nissan, and most of us here like Mazda, as a consequence he will attempt to build up Nissan with his posts, while we try to do the same with Mazda. Herc can try to sound objective all he wants, but he's equally able to be petulant as Skyline Maniac.

This video is a blow to all of us, and I include myself in this group, that wanted the 8 to be EVERYTHING. It's no wonder that people on this board are getting defensive, because the Mazda propagana is starting to fall apart. The 8 is not a track car. It's not the best AutoXer out there, and it doesn't smoke the competition in the straights.

While I'm at it, I should point out that the gas mileage on the Renesis is TERRIBLE. The rotary drinks gas like a Russian in a vodka distillery. The torque is not impressive compared to its piston conterparts, and 250 hp is not class leading by any stretch of the imagination.

And do you know what I have to say to all this:

So what?

There is still no car that offers the blend of performance, comfort, utility and quirkyness that the 8 offers for $26k. The video from BM does not alter that. So I think we should all take a deep breath. I'm just as guilty as others on this forum for magazine racing, but this is getting silly.

Originally posted by SA22C
And do you know what I have to say to all this:

So what?

There is still no car that offers the blend of performance, comfort, utility and quirkyness that the 8 offers for $26k. The video from BM does not alter that. So I think we should all take a deep breath. I'm just as guilty as others on this forum for magazine racing, but this is getting silly.
Amen to that :)

As per my 'bias', it *is* there, but because I believe that this car will drive the way I want it to when I get it. And in this thread at least, I've said as much.

SM hates Mazda and that's fine, I hate their customer service at least and their dealers are far subpar to Infiniti ones. However, this *is* in the end, an RX-8 forum. People come here to learn about the RX-8 and ask their questions.

And when you have me trying to answer them honestly, and Skyline to keep pointing out, "the RX-8 is okay in that area, but the G35C!..." well, serves no purpose and merely ignites a flame war.

And I've asked him before to stop. I believe the RX-8 lost to the G35C at the track, and that BM did an honest review. I never said that. I also said I wasn't educated about the whole Japanese scene, nor was I informed about BM. I asked for some information in that regard. My first posts in this thread consisted of only "Just wait and see when the car comes out."

And I've ALSO said that I have to see what the RX-8 will be like when it comes out. The G35C is my NUMBER ONE CHOICE right now. It handles very well, has plenty of power, seems light enough on its feet and the appearance of it is very muscular and sharp. However given what I look for in a car, it is LIKELY that the RX-8 will be more for me. And I've mentioned that as well. I prefer the light weight and nimble attitude the RX-8 would exude. Puts a bigger smile on my face.

I have not once 'dissed' Skyline. I merely made mention of his hatred of Mazda, the rotary engine, and pretty much all things RX-8. I reminded him of his underlying bias which shows itself in every post he makes. And I explained that by keeping that bias, it's going to be difficult to objectively learn anything about the car.

Keep in mind WHO got defensive when I merely suggested that the BM driver might have had an off day. My explanation was an inundating lashing about how BM was a great publication and that the drivers were somehow infallible.

Okay, whatever. I have been pretty reasonable on this topic, I have not posted false information, I did not show a bias for the RX-8, and overall, been pretty civil. I don't go onto Infiniti or Nissan forums, start threads that would be immediately sensed as trolling by posting information that would show THOSE cars in a bad light, especially when I'm a known buyer of an RX-8. I think the same courtesy applies here. If that video and explanation would have been posted on an Infiniti forum, believe me... it would have trickled back here. And then we can have a much more productive debate about it.

Am I saying the RX-8 would win, or even be closer to winning than BM showed? No. I merely asked for some information about the background of the Japan spec cars (which I am yet to get), with some *proof*, and the past history of BM videos which I have already recieved. Their results, as many people's, vary from video to video, driver to driver, and day to day. Which is also why I don't put much stock into those lap times and things.

I much rather look for the subjective viewpoints and even *some* objective ones that will give me insight as to how the car drives. And until I drive it, I will not make up my mind on which car I'm going to get.

In the end, I can look at the G35 fairly and see whether it's the car for me over the RX-8. Given what I look for in a car, it likely will fall short in a *few* areas. But Skyline looks at the RX-8 and looks at a car that's already subpar to the G35C, and he's quick to point it out every chance he gets.

Which begs the question... why does he post here?

Originally posted by SA22C
And do you know what I have to say to all this:

So what?

There is still no car that offers the blend of performance, comfort, utility and quirkyness that the 8 offers for $26k. The video from BM does not alter that. So I think we should all take a deep breath. I'm just as guilty as others on this forum for magazine racing, but this is getting silly.


AMEN to that! Dammit, that's what I have been trying to say all along. Evaluate the car as a WHOLE FRIGGING PACKAGE, not just track performance or value. In the price range, not many cars (if any) can offer a combination of practicality, fun, sportiness, performance, and comfort as the RX-8. How many times have I mentioned the G35C can't carry people taller than 5'8 in tihe back seat? How many times have I said the transmission is not super smooth? THe G35C is not perfect, and if any of you have asked me about it, I'd tell you all about it. (Look under General Automobile forum under the G35C thread)

That's all there is. Why get your panties pinched in the butt just because the RX-8 didn't beat whatever car on Tsukuba track? 1'11 is a very respectable time, and i wish some of you give Mazda credit for that instead of wishing it being in the 1'05 or 1'09 range. Can a NA RX-7 or stock Integra pull 1'11 on Tsukuba? Yeah right~

Originally posted by Skyline Maniac



AMEN to that! Dammit, that's what I have been trying to say all along. Evaluate the car as a WHOLE FRIGGING PACKAGE, not just track performance or value. In the price range, not many cars (if any) can offer a combination of practicality, fun, sportiness, performance, and comfort as the RX-8. How many times have I mentioned the G35C can't carry people taller than 5'8 in tihe back seat? How many times have I said the transmission is not super smooth? THe G35C is not perfect, and if any of you have asked me about it, I'd tell you all about it. (Look under General Automobile forum under the G35C thread)

That's all there is. Why get your panties pinched in the butt just because the RX-8 didn't beat whatever car on Tsukuba track? 1'11 is a very respectable time, and i wish some of you give Mazda credit for that instead of wishing it being in the 1'05 or 1'09 range. Can a NA RX-7 or stock Integra pull 1'11 on Tsukuba? Yeah right~

"Dammit, that's what I have been trying to say all along. Evaluate the car as a WHOLE FRIGGING PACKAGE, not just track performance or value. " . I beg to differ, but that's not what you have been saying all along. This is the FIRST time, I believe, you relayed this "change" of attitude. If you started posting on this thread with this kind of attitude, then you would not have been confronted by so many defensive-minded people.

"How many times have I mentioned the G35C can't carry people taller than 5'8 in tihe back seat? How many times have I said the transmission is not super smooth? THe G35C is not perfect, and if any of you have asked me about it, I'd tell you all about it." Not many times on this forum, but I appreciate you reminding people of the G35's shortcomings. ;) And definately not on this thread until your last message. I guess you were too busy with the "... but, the G35 does this better".

You are right that each person has to evaluate what they want in the vehicle they want to buy and make their decision based on what is best for them, whether it is a RX-8, G35, or something else.

There is hope for you yet. Do I see a reformation taking place? ;)

Originally posted by Hercules
I don't go onto Infiniti or Nissan forums, start threads that would be immediately sensed as trolling by posting information that would show THOSE cars in a bad light, especially when I'm a known buyer of an RX-8.

Which begs the question... why does he post here?

Yeah, what is he doing here? Oh yeah, right, he told us already... he's doing us a favor and providing valuable insight he learned from one BM show that we otherwise would be ignorant of. He's trying to save our souls from the Mazda machine.

Thank you oh great one Skyline Maniac for demonstrating to us lowly rotary lovers the error of our ways. You have been right, you are right, and you will continue to be right. G35 is the ULTIMATE!

So now that we're convinced... take your valuable, all knowing insight back to your own land. I don't think it's needed here anymore. You have bestowed enough of your knowledge & gifts to us. CLAIM VICTORY FOR ALL THAT IS GOOD AND RIGHT IN THE WORLD! So long! We will miss you!:p ;) :D

Actually, it's quite amusing and interesting that there's a growing number of people who have bailed on the RX-8 (whatever the reason), or who already own other sports cars, and some of them apparently feel the need to defend their actions or previous decisions by bringing up (did I say "bringing up"?... more like brow beat us to death with) short comings of the 8 (all for our own good!) before ever having the opportunity to experience it!

This is one long thread indeed, but it felt like Jerry Springer. Of course, this is not uncommon in many other car forums, but I thought this one has a largely more mature audience based on the past posts that I've read.

It's obvious from this heated debate that everybody love their cars, whichever that is; and that means accepting their shortcomings and appreciating their good points.

You have no control over how someone loves this car or hates that car. People just see different things in different ways. So, let's all just sit back and enjoy that video. All the cars in there are fine cars and we should be lucky that we can afford any of them. Leave the trolls (if you see them as one, although Skyline does come up with good counterpoints occassionally) as they are. I'm sure everybody here is smart enough to decide or research on their own if the facts presented are credible or not.

Originally posted by downshift
It's obvious from this heated debate that everybody love their cars, whichever that is; and that means accepting their shortcomings and appreciating their good points.

I agree... totally!:D

Also, I think the gist of much of this thread is... I'm (we're) not over on the G35/Infiniti forum trying to provide (harass?) them with "valuable" information as to how "practical" or "soft" their car is based on how it performed in a specific situation on a particular day on a single television show.:cool:

----> "As it stands the Renesis is one of the WORST engines on the market"

hmm... (http://www.ukintpress.com/engineoftheyear/ieoty.html)

click... (http://www.ukintpress.com/engineoftheyear/bestnew.html)

and here... (http://www.ukintpress.com/engineoftheyear/25-3.html)

A quote of note...

Ultimately, the absence of vibration coupled to its smooth potent acceleration and the very acceptable fuel efficiency an average of 10.9L/100km (26.2mpg) can be expected won judges affections.

Originally posted by Maximus
----> "As it stands the Renesis is one of the WORST engines on the market"

hmm... (http://www.ukintpress.com/engineoftheyear/ieoty.html)

click... (http://www.ukintpress.com/engineoftheyear/bestnew.html)

and here... (http://www.ukintpress.com/engineoftheyear/25-3.html)


I wonder what kind of response this would get on FA.

Originally posted by bbertha37


I wonder what kind of response this would get on FA.
Now, now, let's not stoop to their level.

Does anyone have a link to the FULL 5 lap battle?

I was not implying that we should post that on FA. I was just curious as to what kind of responses we would get. Would they realize that the Renesis is a truly great engine, or would they continue the RX-8 hate-fest?

The Engine of the Year info was posted on FA, do a search there and you'll see.

Jimmylove: The full 5 lap battle is pretty much what you see on the 1 minute clip. The S2k passed the RX-8 at 1st straight, G35C and WRX passed it on 2nd straight. Integra R passed RX-8 on the 3rd lap, and that's about it. The RX-8 stayed with its competitors very well in the infields, but loses out on the straights. I'd rip it and post it here, but not many people seem interested. Perhaps I'll rip the full video when I get a better source and translation. As it stands, the low quality video is not really worthwhile. There are also videos of the RX-8 on the mountain pass compared to the RX-7 and Miata, also the Cosmos and first gen RX-7 clips. I am sure Rotary fans would find the video worthwhile.

I still don't quite understand how this whole thread was taken as RX-8 bashing~ afterall, I had nothing to do with the BM testing of their cars in Japan. Sounds like a bunch of bitter people upset over the first video tape with production RX-8 against it's competitors. Come on people, it's not like 1'11 is bad time on Tsukuba.

btw: javahut, you don't really need to post on the FA post, Hercules has done a decent job at that. (except he's not quite as curteous on other forums) ;) He was quite hyper over the C&D article in the past. Anyhow, people on FA don't seem to give a rats ass about the video..... the result wasn't that surprising.

Well, I checked the "Engine of the Year" thread at FA, and what do ya know, our good friend SM decided to weigh in his opinion. Nothing short of what I expected:

Thank you for informing us about the engine award. I will surely keep that in mind when I watch the video of the RX-8 getting its ass kicked on the track by the S2000, 350Z, Integra R, Subaru WRX, and G35C. I'll also laugh my ass off when the RX-8 driver screams "I GOT NO POWER!!!!"

NA Rotary is for suckers, Turbo Rotary is for..... well, suckers. If you like the rotary that much, then buy a RX-8 and enjoy.

I'd bet if Toyota, Honda or Nissan were to develope rotary engines, they'd be a lot better than the Mazda version.

If you look at the gas milage, torque figure and practicality, Renesis will begin to look like another Mazda gimmick technology like the abandoned Miller Cycle engine.



Why do you even try to "sugar coat" the act you play here? Go for the gold, baby! You know you hate Mazda and the RX-8. Let it show!

Are you on crazy pill? If anyone considers getting a Millenia *aka. Mazda luxury car!?* then you need to check yourself into rehab. A Mazda luxury car is like getting a lobster dinner from 7-11, or buying a engagement ring from 99 cent store. Pleeeeeeeze~ People don't buy Millenia for very good reasons, mostly because the general public is still fairly intelligent.

if it's a Mazda, I'd bash it. If someone drives a Mazda, I'd feel sorry for them. If someone wants a Mazda, then I'd try like hell to save their soul.

Unfortunately, we are talking about a Mazda. So NO, it can't be a great car, because it's a Mazda.

Mazda sucks, please stay away for your own sake. Maybe wait to see if Ford would make their version of the RX-8 (New Cougar 2+2?) and market it in the US. I much rather buy a Ford than Mazda.

As it stands the Renesis is one of the WORST engines on the market: Pathetic torque, peaky power that required a 9000rpm redline, embarrassing gas milage considering the weight of the car and the size of the engine. This is one of those engines that give 'combustion engines' a bad name. I think electric engine can produce better performace than Renesis.

We don't need an automobile engineer to know the VQ35DE is a superior engine to the Renesis (unless the Renesis only cost like $2000 to build, then I'd give in to the econo factor) I wonder why 99.9% of the cars in the world are using piston engine, and only Mazda uses rotary? Hmmmm~~ That's right, cuz that's the only thing they got! Gimmicks!


Preach on, brother! Preach on!

Well put it this way, rotary has less power than 350Z engine, and almost half its torque. According to C&D and BM the car has a very similar lap time, and only lose in the straights. Doesn't it say something about the RX8 handling? I know we has not test driven the car but I am pretty sure we are getting a proper sports car, not just a "sporty" car.

Just can't imagine the new RX7 with more power, more torque less weight, wider tires and better suspension. To make a two seater with FE (RX8) platform will cut down a lot of weight for sure.

Originally posted by Skyline Maniac
Haha, as a fellow FA member, you'd know my hatred for Mazda USA runs deeper than blood. That being said, I don't believe I have acted inappropriately on this particular forum since the beginning. I approached the RX-8 forum with the view that "What if I look at the RX-8 as an automobile instead of a Mazda product?" Then things became clear for me that the RX-8 is a fine automobile, and Mazda dealerships and corporate Mazda USA is only dragging down this product due to their incompetence. With that understanding, I post on this forum without any of the Mazda bashing. (Not RX-8 bashing, mind you)

If Herc wants to dig up my posts on FA, that's fine with me. On different forums, I approach matters differently. I don't deny hating Mazda Co, there is a long history behind it, but I would not dream of elaborating it here. For my conducts on RX-8 forum, I believe I have been more than fair. While I might be biased towards Infiniti, I am not afraid to give a car credit where it's deserving. The RX8 is an very interesting car, a very well balanced mixture of sport and practicality. I am not here to bash the car~ I am here to study it and learn about it- NOT as a Mazda, but as an automobile.

Herc, I am not going to bother digging up your posts on FA~ let's just say if you ever purchased a G35C, you probably wouldn't want to rejoin the G35 forum under the same user name . ;) You want to bash me? Fine, start a new thread. Want to start a petition to ban me here again? Go ahead and PM the webmaster. BUT for the love of God, stop jacking my Best Motoring thread.



Stop jacking all over his thread.

And bbertha37 please STFU, you have no idea what you're talking about. Learn the history of the rotary before you mouth off!

Stop jacking all over his thread.

Digi, i can't tell from the context, who was that directed at?

and wasn't bertha being sarcastic when he made his"preach on"statement following his SM quote from FA?

Originally posted by Digisan

And bbertha37 please STFU, you have no idea what you're talking about. Learn the history of the rotary before you mouth off!

Dude, if you didn't notice it, I was posting some of SkylineManiac's outlandish posts from FreshAlloy, of which I find completely ridiculous. Perhaps I didn't make that clear enough. My "Preach On" comment might've thrown you off as well if you couldn't pick up the sarcasm. And to respond, I am fully aware of the history of the rotary, and it is for that reason that I have put so much faith in pre-ordering an RX-8 and have spent so many sleepless nights thinking about my RX-8 that should be here in in a month's time. Sorry for the misunderstanding if there was any. Cheers and Zoom-Zoom! :)

You can bash the rotary all you want but the bottom line is that Mazda got it to work reliably. Don't bring up the FD because every one knows the cooling system is to blame for its defects. Mazda had allot of heart to bet the farm on the rotary early on and again now with it's reintroduction to the US market. They also have a solid belief in proving their innovations on the race track. Where's the lemans trophy that Nissan won with the VQ? Right, they don't have one. Neither does Toyota, Subaru, Mitsubishi, Honda, etc. Think about all the restrictions that have been placed on Rotary powered cars over the years (sandbagging cars, intake diameters). At times, even banned from circuits. Why all the restrictions if it wasn't a viable race engine. I don't feel like getting into the Miller Cycle Millennia engine, but it definitely wasn't a gimmick. If you want to know what a real gimmick is look at how Nissan has shoehorned the beloved VQ into everything except for a Sentra. Yeah, real creative! Mazda makes unconventional cars for unconventional people. In a couple of weeks we'll be getting our RX-8's with their hand built engines that were designed by engineers that did much of the R&D on their own time.

Originally posted by Digisan




Stop jacking all over his thread.

And bbertha37 please STFU, you have no idea what you're talking about. Learn the history of the rotary before you mouth off!

Digisan,

Not that I have to defend him, but.... Bbertha37 was QUOTING everything that SkylineMechanic was saying on the Fresh Alloy forum about Mazda, the RX-8 and the rotary engine. And making a SARCASTIC remark when he told Sky to preach on.

In all due respect, maybe you need to shutup and learn what bbertha37 was trying to convey, before accusing him. All the Mazda and rotary badmouthing was done by SkylineMechanic on the FreshAlloy forum.

In defense of Skyline, he has "behaved" himself here to a great degree. He is trying to be a good boy.

Gimmick? Nissan's definition of FM. I still think its something the marketing people made up cuz they couldn't get the engine fully behind the axle. Regardless, the cars still perform well, but why did they have to call it FM? RX-8, thats a real Front-Midship.

Originally posted by chenpin
Gimmick? Nissan's definition of FM. I still think its something the marketing people made up cuz they couldn't get the engine fully behind the axle. Regardless, the cars still perform well, but why did they have to call it FM? RX-8, thats a real Front-Midship.

Gimmick? Marketing ploy? Maybe, but in Infiniti's defense, I do believe the V35Q's "center of gravity" sits behind the front axle, hence why they do have some right to call it a Front-Midship.

Correct me if I'm wrong. At least ask Skyline Mechanic, our resident G35 "fanatic". He would be able to give us the history of Infiniti's Front-Midship design.

Originally posted by Digisan
Stop jacking all over his thread.

And bbertha37 please STFU, you have no idea what you're talking about. Learn the history of the rotary before you mouth off!

He is like my Australian friend who has orgasm when he heard there is a Ford Turbo XR6 which is just a V6 sedan with Turbo kit.

I wonder what bbertha37 drives????:mad:

Originally posted by takahashi


I wonder what bbertha37 drives????:mad:

What difference does it make what he drives.

By the way, do you still drive that tricycle we seen you with from your first Nerd movie? ;)

Originally posted by RX-8 Zoomster


Gimmick? Marketing ploy? Maybe, but in Infiniti's defense, I do believe the V35Q's "center of gravity" sits behind the front axle, hence why they do have some right to call it a Front-Midship.

Correct me if I'm wrong. At least ask Skyline Mechanic, our resident G35 "fanatic". He would be able to give us the history of Infiniti's Front-Midship design.

yeah, that's why I said "fully behind the front axle". Still, imo front-midship means behind the axle.

There's actually a "history"? I thought FM was something new.

edit. by FM I mean Nissan/Infiniti FM in current products

Gimmick? Marketing ploy? Maybe, but in Infiniti's defense, I do believe the V35Q's "center of gravity" sits behind the front axle, hence why they do have some right to call it a Front-Midship.

Well, this is just to get SM's goat, but Mazda beat Nissan to the punch twenty five years ago, with the original RX-7, and continued the tradition throughout the three generations of RX-7. The front/midship design has always been a staple of rotary engined cars.

http://www.iluvmyrx7.com/1stgen/ads/images/Ad1-1-1.jpg

Originally posted by SA22C


Well, this is just to get SM's goat, but Mazda beat Nissan to the punch twenty five years ago, with the original RX-7, and continued the tradition throughout the three generations of RX-7. The front/midship design has always been a staple of rotary engined cars.

http://www.iluvmyrx7.com/1stgen/ads/images/Ad1-1-1.jpg


Do you see that price? Oh, if I could go back in time. I could pick up almost 5 of those for the price of my RX-8.

Originally posted by RX-8 Zoomster



Do you see that price? Oh, if I could go back in time. I could pick up almost 5 of those for the price of my RX-8.

To think 10-15yrs. from now we could be paying ~$100k for your average vehicle if inflation keeps rising. :(

Originally posted by bbertha37


Dude, if you didn't notice it, I was posting some of SkylineManiac's outlandish posts from FreshAlloy, of which I find completely ridiculous. Perhaps I didn't make that clear enough. My "Preach On" comment might've thrown you off as well if you couldn't pick up the sarcasm. And to respond, I am fully aware of the history of the rotary, and it is for that reason that I have put so much faith in pre-ordering an RX-8 and have spent so many sleepless nights thinking about my RX-8 that should be here in in a month's time. Sorry for the misunderstanding if there was any. Cheers and Zoom-Zoom! :)

My mistake, I was being sarcastic as well, I forgot the :)

Cheers,

D-san

Adjusting for inflation, the 1979 RX-7 would cost just under $20k in current dollars. Like the current RX-8, the 7 undercut the competition and offered comparable performance, thanks to the compact rotary engine. And again, in characteristic Mazda fashion, the 7 may have had less power than the competition, but was also lighter, tipping the scales at 2385 pounds, nearly 400 pounds lighter than the Porshe 924 and 500 pounds lighter than the Datsun 280Z.

Originally posted by takahashi


He is like my Australian friend who has orgasm when he heard there is a Ford Turbo XR6 which is just a V6 sedan with Turbo kit.

I wonder what bbertha37 drives????:mad:

OMG, is there still some confusion here as to which side of this "battle" I am on? :o C'mon, people. Learn how to read and then look over my posts again. As to what type of car I drive... IT WILL HOPEFULLY BE AN RX-8 BY JULY. Yea, quite the Mazda and Rotary hater am I. :confused:

Quite a show we have here!

My thoughts:
On this day, at Tsukuba track, with this particular driver Best Motoring shows the RX-8 lost handily to the S2000, G35C, WRX and even the RSX (Itegra -R). Fair enough.

On another day at Laguna Seca a magazine called Best Motoring shows the RX-8 setting the same lap time as an NSX. Perhaps the Integra-R is faster than an NSX... I don't think so. Heck the S2000 is nowhere close to the NSX at any track.

On another day at Willow Springs a magazine/TV show called Car & Driver (who I assume have some good drivers) shows the RX-8 lapping about 0.1secs behind the G35C (and less than a second behind the 390hp/390lb ft Mustang Cobra).

For those of you fixated on this issue I say the BM video at Tsukuba does not tell the whole story, it is perhaps 1% of the puzzle. Look at the big picture - all reviews, all test drives (inc. owner driving impressions), all track results etc to see how the RX-8 really stacks up. In a few months we will see the RX-8 autocrossing and in road races - that will tell us a lot more than this BM video.

Pelucidor, you're exactly right. That's what this whole argument is about. There are some here who are just jumping the gun and stating the RX-8s can't perform based on this one video while others are justing saying "wait and see" ;)

In the mean time....... 650+ views on Imagestation, and still not one single comment on this thread about the video itself. So what do you guys think after watching the video? You think the RX-8 can keep up with the S2000 and Integra R in the corners? The RX-8 maybe in the wrong gear at the time or didn't take the best race line? (It wasn't hugging the apex) 600+ people have watched the video and so far no one has any analysis? Yet I get bashed for typing out a review and translation of the same video? Come on guys, give me your OWN impression of the videos.

You guys want to make comments about my Mazda comment on FA, which is fine. I never brought that sarcastic junk over here and everyone on FA knows those threads are for entertainment purpose. (Don't believe me, go there and ask) Now if you don't agree with my posts on FA regarding Mazda, go there and debate with me. I am not going to spend time arguing over sarcastic comments I made on another forum. (Find me a post on RX-8 forum where I clearly bashed the RX-8, Mazda or Rotary without backing and we'll talk) You guys want to dig more into my FA threads? They'll just make your blood boil~ ;)

Oh yeah, regarding FM platform: It's a concept designed into the new Nissan cars (350Z, G35, G35C, FX35, FX45, GT-R) that has the center of gravity of the engine mounted behind the front axle. It's not a revolutionary design, but a new thing for Nissan. Chief designer of the G35 borrowed the idea from his Nissan Racing Development in Japan. It's just a catch phrase, not an exclusive technology. I still think all things being equal, the biggest deficit of the RX-8 is the engine and tranny. (Straightline performance, basicly)

No matter what the Mazda Haters say against it I still love the RX-8....mine will be Silver with red/black leather interior.

As for G35 coupe I had it in mind and it had its initial impact but then I realized it was not that "unique". It has a nice 3/4 view from behind but the rest of it looks disproportionate. Personally I feel the front looks bad. I cant imagine my self sitting in that UGLY G35 interior for the next three years of my life with all the rattles and sqeaks. I also did not like the transmission as it was not smooth at all (i have been driving manual transmissions in all cars I have ever owned except one) and after driving it I knew what all the reviewers meant by saying it had 'notchy transmission. The car also didn't give me that pure sport feel ... I just felt as if I was driving a souped up Maxima or a some faster sedan. The only thing sporty about it was the exhuast sound.

For all those considering G35 coupe I strongly recommend you check out the BMW 330ci. If straight line performance is so important then go for STi, LanEvo, SRT4 etc.

S2000 is out of question for me because it doesn't have have the back seats, period.

The most important thing for me is how the RX8 would feel as a daily driven car and I am sure it will be up to par. This car is definately a sports car and it gives me extreme sporty feeling just by looking at the interior images (I have'nt got tired of looking at it in last 6 months or so !!) The design of the car with a rotory sitting under the hood is simply irresistable (now proved the best international engine this year by 50 renowned motoring journalists from 22 countries .. i dont care what BS skylinemaniac or anyone else says about rotory ... they make totally unjustified comments without any proof). Torque issue = NO ISSUE. Just wait until you press the accelerator to the floor !!!

So pls everyone, dont be disappointed by the people saying BS about RX8 on this forum...frankly speaking I do get a bit frustated sometimes people saying bad things about the car that I like so much but then, as someone said earlier, you have to look at the bigger picture and not make your judgement on only one review. Hey dont loose your chance of being a proud owner of a sports car like no other !!!

Originally posted by Skyline Maniac

I still think all things being equal, the biggest deficit of the RX-8 is the engine and tranny. (Straightline performance, basicly)

Well, thats odd. Every reviewer has raved about the engine and the transmission of the RX-8. They love the silky, smooth gearbox(akin to the miata's), and the Renesis has just been named the International Engine of the Year. Clearly, you just don't "get it" if you're still complaining about straight-line performance.

I am driving a silver 2000 Celica GTS now. My next car at this November will be a Red Mica RX-8 which I had just ordered MSRP at Marina Mazda at Capitola. My decision is after looking at this several options.

1. 350Z. Look like my Celica but 2 seats only. 700 lbs more heavier than my Celica! Affordable but who say my kid shouldn't enjoy sport car passion at my back. Damn those purist!

2. G35C. $5K more pricer than Z, and also 800 lbs more heavier than my Celica.

3. RSX. More power and classy than my Celica, but Celica is more athletic to my taste, plus I do not want a FWD anymore. Same applied for Mini Cooper S, which is a hype and impractical. Anyway, if given me choice of RSX or Mini Cooper S only, I will keep driving my Celica for it is a better car

4. BMW 323/5. Can get it now near invoice price. Less power but nonetheless it beats all above in ride and handling, even though it is marginal in some cases.

Thus it makes RX-8 very attractive to me. Motorcycle character rotory (Believe me, I rev my 1.8 VVTL-i above 6K rpm in every day driving. I do not race and I do not have ticket in last 10 years), RWD, true mid-engine design, light weight chasis (still 500lbs over), seat 4 full size (my son could be as tall as me in 3 years), good brake. All these add up to a very well balanced sport heritage for my purpose. In this case road feel, steering feel and etc. Though this is what I am speculating from saying on paper, but what good design is not begin from paper? I must admit that the shape of RX-8 does not impress me as Celica, Z, or G35C at first sight, but it is glowing on me. Comparison period. Decision has been made.

Originally posted by Skyline Maniac
You guys want to make comments about my Mazda comment on FA, which is fine. I never brought that sarcastic junk over here and everyone on FA knows those threads are for entertainment purpose. (Don't believe me, go there and ask)


It definately doesn't look like you are making sarcastic remarks on the Fresh Alloy Forum. You meant every word & you relish at any opportunity to inject your "biased" remarks. Everyone on the Alloy Forum knows your dislike for Mazda.

Quote: "Want more Piston vs Rotary arguments? I think the facts have presented themselves. NA Rotaries suck ass. Turbo Rotaries also suck ass. Reliability or performance? Pick one, because with Mazda, you can't ask for too much".

"G35C....... Kicked RX-8's ass on track.......enlighten us your theory how the lack of torque is compensated by rotary's high revving nature? "

"If rotary is so superior, then how come the Renesis got its ass whooped by 2 different Honda 2L 4 bangers that gets better gas milage, better response and apparently better power delivery? Could it be..... Renesis sucks like your typical Mazda technology? "

"Yet at the end of the day, it's this odd kid in class. It's not a sedan, not that practical, not a sport car, not a real coupe, not a luxury car, not really classy, not slow, not too fast, alittle ricy, not a econobox, not cheap, not conventional...... You can either call it "Unique" or "Gimmicky."

"Well, it's fun to drive!" Let's see how fun it's going to be when an Accord kicks your ass at a stop light, or a SUV overtakes you on the freeway onramp. Oh yeah, that'd be really fun. "

Like I said before, if you want to come to this forum and lurk or inject some useful info (by the way, we do appreciate the BM video), you are more than welcome.

But don't come here and tell us "lies" about how you really feel or try to get sympathy by saying your Fresh Alloy forum remarks were only sarcasm. That is insulting to us on this forum. We have much more class than you and your many brethern on the Alloy forum.

The RX8 is certainly not living up to the hype, at least from a pure performance point of view. I have been visiting this forum for about a year and a half and remember all the hopes a lot of people had in terms of weight, handling and accleration.

From the start of the first reviews of preproduction models towards the end of 2002, we started seeing signs of "faint praise". The weight figures then came significantly above many forum members expectations and hopes. As the newer reviews came out this year, there were some more warning signs (i.e. Car magazine's review comparing the RX8 to the 350Z and Sports Car International's take on the RX8 on an autocross course). Even the fuel efficiency figures dissapointed many forum members. This video is the latest of a series of signs that show the RX8 is much closer to a sports sedan than a sports car.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a high reving, "low torque" sports car. However, this design requires light weight (i.e. less amenities) and a tightly tuned suspension to compete with torquier sports cars. Lighter weight is even more important in a rotary that has its power limited by fuel efficiency and emissions weaknesses. The concept of a four door sports car is a stretch. Perhaps a sporty sports sedan would be more correct?
It should be interesting to see if the RX8 really is successful in the marketplace or is "Squished Like a Bug".

revhappy after this many pages, I think you'd have gotten it by now... most of us aren't magazine racers.

We just want to drive the car and see for myself. Myself included. Right now the G35C is top of my list because it matches my price and space requirements as well as the handling and power requirements.

Magazines have to translate a lot of emotions and biases into words. When I drive... I don't to have words to express what I feel. The G35C had its problems and I can put them on paper... but the Z4 that I drove was signifigantly slower and I can't remember all the bad things about it... because I was having such a blast driving it.

And that in the end, is what the difference will be.

Oh come on Herc, please don't dismiss people as "magazine racers" who are a bit disappointed with the performance. This was a video of a race on a real track by a respected media outlet utilizing professional drivers. Maybe the results will be different on another track with other drivers, but THESE results are disappointing and are consistent with some of the comments in other reviews.

That being said if your choice is between the G35 and the RX8, I think the RX8 will be by far more fun and the better choice. Frankly, I'm not too impressed by the G35. I'm not questioning your decison. However, for me, given that I was cross-shopping the S2000 and the EVO, the RX8 has been a big disappointment in terms of performance.

I'm not 'dismissing' anybody.

But even I have gotten worked up over reviews and then sit back and think... I haven't even driven the bloody thing yet!

Just keep in mind that magazines don't tell the whole story and you will never truly appreciate a car if you go by performance 'numbers.'

Get in the car and find out for yourself. That's what I will do and see if the RX-8 fits me.

Originally posted by takahashi

He is like my Australian friend who has orgasm when he heard there is a Ford Turbo XR6 which is just a V6 sedan with Turbo kit.


It's a straight six not a V6.
It's 4 litre DOHC VCT motor with a factory Garrett GT35/40 full ball-bearing and FMIC.

It's not a "V6 sedan with a turbo kit" it's a very respectable sports sedan that doesnt pretent to be anything else. @ 40kAUS it's a bargain too.

-pete

I can only think of how different this discussion would have been
if the RX-8 would have placed better. Sure the competition was tough but many of us believed that with the RX-8's power to weight ratio and sporty handling it would be able to hold its own
against these heavyweights of speed. Unfortunately it was not the case in this event. At least in this event. I am a fan of Best Motoring and I believe them to be some of the best drivers in the world. Kurosawa which is probably the best and most serious of them all drove the S2000. I would have preferred to see him behind the wheel of the RX-8 but who knows maybe next time.
I have a very interesting video of Kurosawa driving the latest generation RX-7 against a Nissan R34-Vspec, NSX, NSX-Zer0, a Subaru Impreza sti, and I believe a Lancer Evo VI. So many all wheel drive and mid engine cars so many underrated in power. Yet the RX-7 came out on top with a very decisive victory and we are not talking about the more serious RZ model a good old RS got the job done. Even pulling away from the mighty Skyline on the straights. Yet other Best motoring volumes show different results. Sometimes placing last, other times placing better. Which now brings fourth my motto

Different tracks, different drivers, different days, different results.

Some say of you have said "oh my god, how can it be, it can't even beat an RSX. Booo hooo hooo the rotary is dead"
What you have to understand is that RSX has very little in common with the one released stateside. Honda is very proud of its Type R nameplate and have made numerous modifications to that Type R to ensure its that its R badge is warranted. That very same Type R has even bested the mighty S2000 on one occasion. Like I said, different track, different drivers, different days. The results will not always be the same. If you want to really raise an eyebrow over this it shouldn't be why the RX-8 came in last (not counting the Miata) The question should be why the Subaru Sti a car that is an all wheel driver monster, capable of 13 flat in the quarter and excess speeds of 155mph came in 3rd. To believe this car doesn't surpass the Japanese gentleman's agreement of 280hp is being naive. But this is an RX-8 forum so I guess maybe that question is out of line.

Silverpgt94

What you said is very true - the drivers driving the S2K now should feel very much at home by now

Originally posted by Silverpgt94
I can only think of how different this discussion would have been
if the RX-8 would have placed better. Sure the competition was tough but many of us believed that with the RX-8's power to weight ratio and sporty handling it would be able to hold its own
against these heavyweights of speed.

1) The RX-8 did hold its own on the track.

2) Like you said, the Integra Type R is a well respected track car. Perhaps the best FF track car on the market right now. It's slightly lighter, with 220hp, upgraded suspension and lightweight parts. I wouldn't confuse it with the American RSX.

3) That's not a WRX STi, just the new Subaru WRX. Had it been a STi, it would be leading the pack on Tsukuba.

4) The RX-8 is not meant to be a full blown sport car like the RX-7. A turbo RX-7 would probably have kicked ass against its competitions.

Here is a bit more info: (conversion from Japanese units) I thought this might be useful info for those of us magazine racers.

Name------------RX8 Skyline 350Z S2000 WRX Integra R
Weight (lbs)---2889 3374 3197 2778 2999 2602
Engine-------13B-MSP VQ35DE VQ35DE F20C EJ20 K20A
Displacement--654×2 3498 3498 1997 1994 1998
Max Power-------250 280 280 250 250 220
Max Torque------159 268 268 160 246 152
PW Ratio-------5.24 5.46 5.18 5.04 5.44 5.36
Tire----POTENZA RE040 RE040 RE040 RS-02 RE011 RE040
Price (USD)---23913 29478 31304 29826 21330 22522

Originally posted by Skyline Maniac
1) The RX-8 did hold its own on the track.

Thats not what you said earlier:

Originally posted by Skyline Maniac
I don't think it was much a drivers race in the July issue, the RX-8 was obviously slower than its competitors especially on the straights. (It didn't get passed slowly.... the S2000, G35C and WRX blew by the RX-8 on straights) The excess body roll was evident around corners as well.
and this:
Originally posted by Skyline Maniac
To be honest, I don't think the RX-8 would be considered in the same performance class as the G35C. If the RX-8 is truly a better handler than the G35C, then at least it would have beat the G on slalom, lateral grip, AutoX course, hairpins and high speed lane change test...... but it did not.

and finally:
Originally posted by Skyline Maniac
RX-8 got its ass kicked by everyone else except and beat only the other Mazda.

So what do you really think about the RX-8?

BTW. I thought the S2000 was 240hp and 153lb-ft? Or is the one in Japan different? Also, is the 350Z in Japan REALLY 280hp? Or is it underrated like the GT-R?

Thanks for straighten me out on how pathetic the RX-8 is. I am going to get the EVO instead to dust the 350Z, G35, G35C.:o

Originally posted by MPester
Thanks for straighten me out on how pathetic the RX-8 is. I am going to get the EVO instead to dust the 350Z, G35, G35C.:o

eh? Who was that directed to? If it was me, I'm not trying to straighten anyone out. I like the RX-8 and am eagerly waiting for delivery of my car. :)

Originally posted by MPester
I am going to get the EVO instead

too bad. well make sure you know where the dealer is. we get these in all the time and the warranty is different than other mits. make sure you ask the sales person about the brake and tire wear on the evo.

BTW. I thought the S2000 was 240hp and 153lb-ft? Or is the one in Japan different? Also, is the 350Z in Japan REALLY 280hp? Or is it underrated like the GT-R?

The S2000 in japan has a slightly higher compression ratio due to a thinner head gasket because the gas quality is much better in Japan. The result is 250PS which translates to about 247HP.

Oddly enough the Japanese don't rate any of their cars higher than 280PS (old gentlemans agreement). The 350Z makes the same 287HP in Japan spec.

I just watched the entire video this afternoon. I firmly believe the white RX8 they featured in that race was down on power. Either that or Mazda ovverated the HP again.

About the G35C, I'm not sure what Skyline Mechanic has to be proud about. We're talking about a 280PS car being outrun by a measly S2000 with 157 ft lbs of torque. Throw the G35C/350Z into the Best Motoring "280PS" class which includes the EVO, FD, NSX, GTR, and watch it get left behind.

Why does it state the rx-8's price as 23913? The rx-8 should cost more then 23913 and which option package caused the 2889?

Originally posted by Jimmylove
I just watched the entire video this afternoon. I firmly believe the white RX8 they featured in that race was down on power. Either that or Mazda ovverated the HP again.Attack of the Sticky Ports!!!;) ;) ;) :D

Originally posted by Puppy1
Attack of the Sticky Ports!!!;) ;) ;) :D Who knows... and better yet... who cares :)

6 seconds to 60 is quick enough for me, maybe not for some people... but enough for me.

Originally posted by revhappy
The RX8 is certainly not living up to the hype, at least from a pure performance point of view. I have been visiting this forum for about a year and a half and remember all the hopes a lot of people had in terms of weight, handling and accleration.

From the start of the first reviews of preproduction models towards the end of 2002, we started seeing signs of "faint praise". The weight figures then came significantly above many forum members expectations and hopes. As the newer reviews came out this year, there were some more warning signs (i.e. Car magazine's review comparing the RX8 to the 350Z and Sports Car International's take on the RX8 on an autocross course). Even the fuel efficiency figures dissapointed many forum members. This video is the latest of a series of signs that show the RX8 is much closer to a sports sedan than a sports car.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a high reving, "low torque" sports car. However, this design requires light weight (i.e. less amenities) and a tightly tuned suspension to compete with torquier sports cars. Lighter weight is even more important in a rotary that has its power limited by fuel efficiency and emissions weaknesses. The concept of a four door sports car is a stretch. Perhaps a sporty sports sedan would be more correct?
It should be interesting to see if the RX8 really is successful in the marketplace or is "Squished Like a Bug".


Performance and practicality wise... The mazda6s is a much better car than a rx-8. More space inside. Normal rear doors and more leg room. More power and more TORQUE. TORQUE is what gives you good acceleration... not HP.

High revving is not what a $27,000 car should need to do. It makes it sound like a 15,000 honda civic or any other vtec engine. Plus the extra weight will make the RWD handling real sloppy just like the lexus is 300. That car fishtails SO easily ... even with traction control.



The halfway decent fuel consumption comes from leaning out the mixture.... which makes turboing not very easy to do.


Over all a nice try and I can imagine those goofy 40 year olds that ride a miata wanting a rx-8. But for the rest grab the Mazda6s. It's a much better and practical car.

Originally posted by bbertha37

Are you on crazy pill? If anyone considers getting a Millenia *aka. Mazda luxury car!?* then you need to check yourself into rehab. A Mazda luxury car is like getting a lobster dinner from 7-11, or buying a engagement ring from 99 cent store. Pleeeeeeeze~ People don't buy Millenia for very good reasons, mostly because the general public is still fairly intelligent.

if it's a Mazda, I'd bash it. If someone drives a Mazda, I'd feel sorry for them. If someone wants a Mazda, then I'd try like hell to save their soul.

Unfortunately, we are talking about a Mazda. So NO, it can't be a great car, because it's a Mazda.

Mazda sucks, please stay away for your own sake. Maybe wait to see if Ford would make their version of the RX-8 (New Cougar 2+2?) and market it in the US. I much rather buy a Ford than Mazda.

As it stands the Renesis is one of the WORST engines on the market: Pathetic torque, peaky power that required a 9000rpm redline, embarrassing gas milage considering the weight of the car and the size of the engine. This is one of those engines that give 'combustion engines' a bad name. I think electric engine can produce better performace than Renesis.

We don't need an automobile engineer to know the VQ35DE is a superior engine to the Renesis (unless the Renesis only cost like $2000 to build, then I'd give in to the econo factor) I wonder why 99.9% of the cars in the world are using piston engine, and only Mazda uses rotary? Hmmmm~~ That's right, cuz that's the only thing they got! Gimmicks!


Preach on, brother! Preach on!




oh god.. please don't think I'm a stupid troll like this dude.

I dig Mazdas. They out handle every car in their class. From the protege to the 6.

Originally posted by block911
Performance and practicality wise... The mazda6s is a much better car than a rx-8. More space inside. Normal rear doors and more leg room. More power and more TORQUE. TORQUE is what gives you good acceleration... not HP.

High revving is not what a $27,000 car should need to do. It makes it sound like a 15,000 honda civic or any other vtec engine. Plus the extra weight will make the RWD handling real sloppy just like the lexus is 300. That car fishtails SO easily ... even with traction control.

Over all a nice try and I can imagine those goofy 40 year olds that ride a miata wanting a rx-8. But for the rest grab the Mazda6s. It's a much better and practical car. Obviously the Mazda 6 has more practicality than the RX-8, but I have to assume you are joking about the performance being better. Your comments on torque suggest that you have a lot of reading and understanding to do (just like me 9 months ago) - perform a search, there are plenty of posts here on the myth of the torque number and how gearing plays a part on performance if the engine revs high enough. High revving engines are bad for performance? - yep those F1 cars are sure slow as they have to rev to 18k rpm... Did you notice the car with the least torque came first in this video (it revs high too)?

And extra weight? Where - the Renesis is way lighter than the Mazda 6 V6 and the car as a whole is lighter too. Finally I have an IS300 (which is universally praised for it's great handling if nothing else) - it only fishtails in the wet if you do something stupid with traction turned off (which I do for fun sometimes).

Originally posted by pelucidor
Obviously the Mazda 6 has more practicality than the RX-8, but I have to assume you are joking about the performance being better. Your comments on torque suggest that you have a lot of reading and understanding to do (just like me 9 months ago) - perform a search, there are plenty of posts here on the myth of the torque number and how gearing plays a part on performance if the engine revs high enough. High revving engines are bad for performance? - yep those F1 cars are sure slow as they have to rev to 18k rpm... Did you notice the car with the least torque came first in this video (it revs high too)?

And extra weight? Where - the Renesis is way lighter than the Mazda 6 V6 and the car as a whole is lighter too. Finally I have an IS300 (which is universally praised for it's great handling if nothing else) - it only fishtails in the wet if you do something stupid with traction turned off (which I do for fun sometimes).




so why did the rx-8 get beat on so bad??????

Why did the S2000 get beat so bad in its debut video? The 4D's.
You have to understand that one review or video does not make or break. Wait till the car comes out, take a test drive, see how it does in numerous track events.

Ditto Chenpin. How can you judge a car that is not ever out yet?... at least not in North America.

RANK---------------------5-----------1--------------4
Name-----------------RX8-----S2000----Integra R
Weight (lbs)-------2889-------2778---------2602
Engine---------13B-MSP ------F20C---------K20A
Displacement---654×2-------1997---------1998
Max Power----------250--------250-----------220
Max Torque---------159--------160-----------152
PW Ratio-----------5.24--------5.04----------5.36
Price (USD)------23913------29826-------22522

Actually the car with the least torque was the Miata, and then the Integra, then RX8... and S2000 has 1 more torque than the RX-8. Power weight ratio - the S2000 comes on top, followed by RX8, Integra R, WRX, and then G35C. Perhaps a production Renesis dyno would give us a better idea. Specs never tell the whole story, for example, BMW 330 can hang with the G35C despite its supposedly 55hp deficit on spec.

Interesting the RX-8 and S2000 has almost identical specs, (power, torque, 9000rpm redline, small displacement engine) except the 111lb weight difference. The RX-8 probably has better structural ridigity than the S2000 as well. On paper, the RX-8 should have been right on S2000's tail. So maybe the RX-8 they tested was not broken in, underpowered, or had some intake manifold management problem. Maybe the driver was unfamiliar with the nature of the Renesis engine, or proper gearing. Gan-san said given the right conditions, he thinks the RX-8 is capable of doing 1'10 on Tsukuba. Supposedly an underpowered 210hp pre-production RX-8 can beat NSX time on Laguna Seca?

* I didn't know the Integra R was actually lighter than the S2000, :eek: and cost so much less.

Maybe the RX-8 just lost.

One way or another... I don't really care. Lap times are not indicative of a car's performance, and as I said a thousand times... drive it first (as I'm going to do also) and we'll see.

Right now, the G35C is top of my list. If the RX-8 tops that (which I expect, given my criteria it would), then I'll be firm on the RX-8.

But the G35C is a great car, and the RX-8 will for my purposes, likely be a better one.

To each his own.

Originally posted by Jimmylove

I just watched the entire video this afternoon. I firmly believe the white RX8 they featured in that race was down on power. Either that or Mazda ovverated the HP again.

About the G35C, I'm not sure what Skyline Mechanic has to be proud about. We're talking about a 280PS car being outrun by a measly S2000 with 157 ft lbs of torque. Throw the G35C/350Z into the Best Motoring "280PS" class which includes the EVO, FD, NSX, GTR, and watch it get left behind.

So you thought the car they drove didn't have 250hp? I would agree given thr RX-8 was well in its power band when it got passed on the straights by the Integra - something's not right.

280ps? proud? Maybe it has something to do with the power-weight ratio. More like pleasantly surprised. Just like back in May when the G35C beat the 350Z on Tsukuba. You are right though, G35C would get their ass handed by the NSX ($90k) GT-R (Discontinued) FD (DIscontinued) Evo8 and STi on track. Not that I'd care, that's the expectation anyhow.

btw: Jimmylove, care to review the first part of the video for us? The part where they compared the RX-8 to the Miata and FD RS on the mountain roads? I just remember Takuya saying the RX-8 is very fast and yet comfortable on the switchbacks.

" I don't really care. Lap times are not indicative of a car's performance"



AHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHHHAHAH


that something a geo metro owner would say:D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Originally posted by block911
" I don't really care. Lap times are not indicative of a car's performance"



AHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHHHAHAH


that something a geo metro owner would say:D :D :D :D :D :D :D And a reply fitting a 10 year old.

Originally posted by Skyline Maniac
RANK---------------------5-----------1--------------4
Name-----------------RX8-----S2000----Integra R
Weight (lbs)-------2889-------2778---------2602
Engine---------13B-MSP ------F20C---------K20A
Displacement---654×2-------1997---------1998
Max Power----------250--------250-----------220
Max Torque---------159--------160-----------152
PW Ratio-----------5.24--------5.04----------5.36
Price (USD)------23913------29826-------22522

Actually the car with the least torque was the Miata, and then the Integra, then RX8... and S2000 has 1 more torque than the RX-8. Power weight ratio - the S2000 comes on top, followed by RX8, Integra R, WRX, and then G35C. Perhaps a production Renesis dyno would give us a better idea. Specs never tell the whole story, for example, BMW 330 can hang with the G35C despite its supposedly 55hp deficit on spec.

Interesting the RX-8 and S2000 has almost identical specs, (power, torque, 9000rpm redline, small displacement engine) except the 111lb weight difference. The RX-8 probably has better structural ridigity than the S2000 as well. On paper, the RX-8 should have been right on S2000's tail. So maybe the RX-8 they tested was not broken in, underpowered, or had some intake manifold management problem. Maybe the driver was unfamiliar with the nature of the Renesis engine, or proper gearing. Gan-san said given the right conditions, he thinks the RX-8 is capable of doing 1'10 on Tsukuba. Supposedly an underpowered 210hp pre-production RX-8 can beat NSX time on Laguna Seca?

* I didn't know the Integra R was actually lighter than the S2000, :eek: and cost so much less.

The Integra Type R (or hopefully future RSX Type R) is not a car to be taken lightly. The former US Integra Type Rs were excellent (and still are) performers in autocross and SCCA track races. The LSD makes a huge difference as the ITR was one of the best handling cars anywhere near its price range. The RSX Type R has an additional 30 horsepower, greater torque with a more linear delivery powerband and looks to weigh within 100 pounds of the previous Integra Type R.

The Integra Type R (previous US version) is certainly a car that makes little compromises, but if you can live with the noisy, rough ride, it is one of the most fun cars around (although as with some honda's the steering feel needs to be better). About 2 years ago when the RSX-S came out, I liked it, but it fell up a bit short. At that time, the 2 cars I was waiting for were the RX8 and the RSX-R. Its an interesting comparison in that they are close performance wise (on paper at least), but take a different approach (RX8 - superior basic platorm with softer tuning for broad consumption and RSX-R- FWD economy car roots with lots of tuning to be made competitive with cars with superior platforms). Most people would choose the RX8 however, for me I am very partial to a really tightly tuned car (even if the basic platform is inferior). Unfortunately, many folks don't think the RSX-R will make it here with the performance bar being risen (especially with EVO, STI, etc), but many think a Civic Type R might arrive (the SI has not done well) and be an excellent sport compact for around $20K.

The rsx type s has a msrp of 24k and if you just add in the factory performance package it adds another 4-5k making the car 28k! The type r is an even bigger upgrade then the lame factory performance pacakge in the states so I would assume the type r would be more then the 28k price tag making the car a horrible buy. Acura/honda need to get their act together, honestly the prices they ask for a fwd car is horrible. The new tsx? It's just a rebadged european accord, with a weaker engine then the US spec accord and has basically and rsx type s engine yet its selling at close to 30k! Biggest rip off in the world.

On a side note the rx8 did not beat the nsx on laguna it kept up. The NSX got 1'50" while the rx-8 got a 1'50"70. I don't believe that the rx-8 had a problem at laguna seca. Many rx-8s probably had port problems but some did not. The 5.9s 0-60 figure as many have said seems to be the correct time for the rx-8. The magazines who got a time of 6.3-6.4 probably did have stuck ports, but then again who knows because rotarynews.com's question and answer segment states that the problem was with the supplier of the valves so that statement makes it seem like all preproduction rx-8s had the problem. Even bern from rotarynews.com has stated the preproduction model had less power then the rx-8 on these forums.

Actually the car with the least torque was the Miata, and then the Integra, then RX8... and S2000 has 1 more torque than the RX-8. Power weight ratio - the S2000 comes on top, followed by RX8, Integra R, WRX, and then G35C.What I should have said is: 'of the top three finishers the winner had vastly less torque than the other two cars'. This is for block911's edification as he believes a big torque number is crucial for performance..

This thread is getting more attention than it deserves. On several other tracks the RX-8 beat or equaled some very good cars (NSX for example) but everyone is focussing on this particlar article. Remember that in Formula 1 Ferrari may have the best car, the biggest budget and also by far the best driver but even they don't win every single race. I will not bother to take part in this thread any further - for me the defining moment (good or bad) will be in three weeks during my test drive.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by bern

Oh yea, did I mention the production car is quicker 0-60 than the pre-prod models. Reported 0-60 of 5.9 will drop by a few tenths.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I guess I was wrong about 5.9 being the norm for the rx-8

Originally posted by AsianStyle
The new tsx? It's just a rebadged european accord, with a weaker engine then the US spec accord and has basically and rsx type s engine yet its selling at close to 30k! Biggest rip off in the world.



no it isn't. it's ~26k with every option except navi. it's actually one of the best values in its class. by far.

If you go to edmunds.com it states tmv for the tsx at 26,990 for a 4 door rsx? I think I will pass. If the engine was the rsx r's engine or if it was rwd then I would give it a try, but being a competitor for the g35 and the 330 it falls very short IMHO.

If you go to edmunds.com it states tmv for the tsx at 26,990 for a 4 door rsx? I think I will pass. If the engine was the rsx r's engine or if it was rwd then I would give it a try, but being a competitor for the g35 and the 330 it falls very short IMHO. How much does the tsx cost in Europe?

I think TSX is more of a competitor for the IS300 (discounted) BMW 325, RX-8, and even Mazda 6 at its price point. The TSX just might be the most sporty FWD sedan to hit the US market. That being said, FWD and heavy weight do not mix. I heard it's fun to drive, but FWD no longer holds any interest for me. (unless it's a lightweight like the RSX) The TSX seems to fall short compare to other cars, even its American Accord Cousin.

btw: US Accord is being 'imported' to Japan as a luxury Honda model called Inspire. Funny how our Accord becomes their luxury model, and their Accord becomes our Acura. It would appear that they swap the interior as well.

If the 8 falls through, I'll be looking into the IS300. It's a really nice car for the money.

I agree that the tsx is also a competitor to the is300, mazda6, rx-8, etc... but all the other cars are rwd and the 6 that isn't rwd can be had for less money. I've also heard that the tsx feels very slow. Even though the car is quite nimble the weight/engine/fwd isn't helping the car. Why the change from my statement of the 330 to the 325? Price? How bout the absence of the g35? Are you stating it can compete with the rx-8, but not with the g35 or 330? I really believe that the 325/330 needs to be changed, due to many of the new competitiors like the rx-8 and g35, which both out perform, priced much less and has many other qualities that are on par with the BMW.

PS I'm not accusing you or anything just wondering why the change in competitors

Oh, I just said 325 because the 330 price range is so much more than the TSX. A 325 would already have sufficient power to go against a TSX. The G35 would also be a competitor of the TSX - I just never thought of it due to the performance difference and platform. I can see why people would cross shop though: Both are entry luxury Japanese sedans from reputable companies. Still, if you line up a G35 sedan (discounted) and a TSX (still going MSRP last I heard), I think most driving enthusiasts would pick the infiniti. The TSX might have better interior though, I am not too sure.

I think TSX is a nice concept, but it really needs to lose a lot of weight to be a viable sport sedan. Recent big motor edition to the family sedan has raised the bar in performance level. It would be kind of embarassing to call TSX, Mazda 6 and IS300 sport sedans when you have grocery getters like the Accord or Altima that can blast to 60 less than 6 seconds.

Don't have time to look through 10+ pages of this thread... so is there a link to a video of this Best Motoring test/race in here somewhere?

Originally posted by BryanH
Don't have time to look through 10+ pages of this thread... so is there a link to a video of this Best Motoring test/race in here somewhere?

Yes, there is a link, located on this thread, to some clips of the Best Motoring video. Skyline Maniac was generous enough to provide us about 5-6 clips from the video.

But you don't have time to look? You want us to do the search for you?

OK. Here is the LINK (http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4289934725) for your lazy butt. ;)

Gamera, do u think you could give us the whole rip in the same quality you do always, it would be a big help thanks.

Originally posted by RX-8 Zoomster
OK. Here is the LINK (http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4289934725) for your lazy butt. ;) My lazy butt thanks you. :p This thread is just so long!

I wonder who drove S2000? I bet it was that fat dude. He usually always wins. If he raced with RX8, he would have probably won.

Originally posted by Haris
I wonder who drove S2000?I dunno, but whoever was driving the RX-8 wouldn't know an apex if it jumped up and bit him on the ass! Two corners in a row he turned in so late and wide that he left the door open for the car behind him, and then lost momentum out of the corner. No wonder the others blew past him in the straight. Sheesh.

Originally posted by eccles
I dunno, but whoever was driving the RX-8 wouldn't know an apex if it jumped up and bit him on the ass! Two corners in a row he turned in so late and wide that he left the door open for the car behind him, and then lost momentum out of the corner. No wonder the others blew past him in the straight. Sheesh.

I noticed that too. Also did you see the G35 fish-tailing on that first curve? I definately wasn't impressed. This is where the RX-8 is heads above most of the other vehicles - handling.

Originally posted by RX-8 Zoomster


I noticed that too. Also did you see the G35 fish-tailing on that first curve? I definately wasn't impressed. This is where the RX-8 is heads above most of the other vehicles - handling.

That's same with most skylines I've seen too. They fish tail waaay too much. 7 and 8 are very stable in corners. And yes that RX8 cornered waaaay to late. Even mack could have passed by it.

I want to see Gan-San ("that fat dude") drive the RX-8 next time. :) He is the man!

Does anyone know if the RX8 in this video has the tertiary ports stuck closed? If it does...

Originally posted by RX-8 Zoomster
I definately wasn't impressed. This is where the RX-8 is heads above most of the other vehicles - handling. I don't understand a word of Japanese, but I'll wager that the other driver that pointed and shouted something at the RX-8 as he blew past was saying "Amateur!"

eccles - I didn't see the video, but thanks for pointing that out. Man, I thought someone said they were season racers.:o

That's why the Car&Driver review is more meaningful to me. Each driver do solo runs on the test track in each car. Rather than racing one another.

Originally posted by eccles
I dunno, but whoever was driving the RX-8 wouldn't know an apex if it jumped up and bit him on the ass! Two corners in a row he turned in so late and wide that he left the door open for the car behind him, and then lost momentum out of the corner. No wonder the others blew past him in the straight. Sheesh.

Sorry, it was directed at whoever this person is trying to force feed down our throat about this almighty 350Z, G35, G35C.

Originally posted by chenpin

Originally posted by MPester
Thanks for straighten me out on how pathetic the RX-8 is. I am going to get the EVO instead to dust the 350Z, G35, G35C.


eh? Who was that directed to? If it was me, I'm not trying to straighten anyone out. I like the RX-8 and am eagerly waiting for delivery of my car. :)

How do they decide which starting position each car is in? Don't they get like the fastest lap time car first, then second, etc. If so, then RX8 had very fast lap since it started liek 2nd or something...

Originally posted by Haris
How do they decide which starting position each car is in? Don't they get like the fastest lap time car first, then second, etc. If so, then RX8 had very fast lap since it started liek 2nd or something...

Based on tq/weight ratio.

Originally posted by Jimmylove


Based on tq/weight ratio.

Really? Oh I didn't even know that.

sometimes by tq/wt ratio, sometimes by 0-400m times, in which case the fastest car ends up in last to start (at least in the old vids, maybe they stopped doing that).

Hello everyone, was just cruising around various car boards and came across this very entertaining post and had to reply. Just some random thoughts that are not directed towards all of you nor any one person in particular...


1.) You have not driven the car!

2.) For those of you bashing the S2000, it is an incredible car, go to a local autox and watch it smoke Z06s NSXs and every other car out there

3.) Stop making arguments based off of some video or magazine article

4.) I know you're excited about your soon to be cars but there are plenty of faster and better handling cars out there, but if you love it that's all that really matters

5.) If you bought an EVO I don't think your major concern was tire/break wear and quality of warranty. If you ever line up next to one with the intention of racing just keep repeating to yourself how "but ugly" it is

6.) The G35 is an impressive car, I call foul if you don't feel this way and love cars

7.) 2-3 seconds is not that difficult to lose in one turn, this is why you shouldn't put a whole lot of weight in lap times from mags and videos, and even the best drivers in the world have bad turns

8.) If you're already thinking you will need more power than stock the RX-8 in current form is not for you, it's going to be very pricey to upgrade and the parts are not even available yet. If you want a turbo or supercharged car then buy one! Unless you want to spend a ton of money upgrading a car to something it was not intended to be only to still come up short to much of the competition.

9.) 90% of you will never be able to experience the full potentiel of your car's

10.) Time slips and lap times mean nothing out on the streets

11.) We are all on car sites because we love cars, the drama on some of these sites is just silly, and this thread turned into a witch hunt at one point. Love one another! :p

12.) Listen to Hercules, he makes sense <does his Dr. Doolittle impersonation> Hercules! Hercules! Hercules!

13.) I hope to see some cocky RX-8 drivers at a stoplight near me real soon, I've certainly enjoyed the G35 and 350Z release

14.) To the non cocky owners of these and all cars, thumbs up!


I hope you guys get your RX-8s real soon and it lives up to all your expectations. They should be great cars and I look forward to seeing one in person. I'm in the Milwaukee area if anyone ever wants to talk shop, hell you can come to our WRX meets. :D


Cheers,
Ike

Welcome to the board Ike. Thanks for your fresh perspective.

Originally posted by IkeWRX
9.) 90% of you will never be able to experience the full potential of your cars
Thank you! I think 90% of the people on this forum have forgotten this fact!

13.) I hope to see some cocky RX-8 drivers at a stoplight near me real soon, I've certainly enjoyed the G35 and 350Z release

14.) To the non cocky owners of these and all cars, thumbs up!

I consider myself to be fairly cocky (just ask my wife), but I am not a cocky driver. So, thumbs back at ya. Welcome to the forum.

Originally posted by IkeWRX
2.) For those of you bashing the S2000, it is an incredible car, go to a local autox and watch it smoke Z06s NSXs and every other car out thereWell at our local autocrosses, the S2000s regularly get beat by the Z06s. And Miatas. And the occasional MR2. See http://www.spokes.org/Events03/03e7_raw.htm for the latest example. (And if you want proof that a stock Miata can beat all comers, see http://www.spokes.org/Events02/02e1_raw.htm :D )

I'll grant you that the S2000 is a very capable car, but it ain't no 'Vette killer. ;)

Well I will certainly agree that the Miata is a very capable car, I'm considering buying one or maybe a MR2 if I can ever find a decent turbo for sale for auto x purposes. Unfortunately the allowance of R compound tires in stock class makes me just want to stay in another class with my rex. I am not going to drop R compound tires on my stock car to compete with the other jackasses out there that feel the need to drop obscene amounts of money.

This link shows S2Ks with street tires whooping up on a couple Z06s that had Hoosiers on them.

http://www.waiautox.org/2003/03wai2class.pdf

Just goes to show, driver and how well the car is setup for the track makes a huge huge difference. Yet another example of why you shouldn't put my faith in numbers racing.


Ike

I find that last link very odd. I used to race 125 cc shifter karts and there is no way in hell any Solo2 car should keep up with let alone beat one around a track. I used to turn laps 5 secs faster than a local instructor in his Modded M3 at a local race track. Are you sure it wasn't Schumacher in that Miata, and that Camaro... someone needs to give that guy to a racing contract.

I'd be curious to see that track layout and track conditions, or maybe the 125 CC shifter guys are just bad drivers. The cream of the crop in karting does not race solo2, so that may explain it.

By the way 10 AE, is that the anniversary edition Miata?

Ike

Originally posted by IkeWRX


By the way 10 AE, is that the anniversary edition Miata?


That is correct.

Originally posted by IkeWRX
This link shows S2Ks with street tires whooping up on a couple Z06s that had Hoosiers on them.

http://www.waiautox.org/2003/03wai2class.pdf

Just goes to show, driver and how well the car is setup for the track makes a huge huge difference. Yet another example of why you shouldn't put my faith in numbers racing.Very true. In fact, those results show that the SS and AS cars got whooped on by most everyone, not just the S2000. Must've been a real tight course.

Originally posted by IkeWRX
I find that last link very odd. I used to race 125 cc shifter karts and there is no way in hell any Solo2 car should keep up with let alone beat one around a track. I used to turn laps 5 secs faster than a local instructor in his Modded M3 at a local race track. Are you sure it wasn't Schumacher in that Miata, and that Camaro... someone needs to give that guy to a racing contract.

I'd be curious to see that track layout and track conditions, or maybe the 125 CC shifter guys are just bad drivers. The cream of the crop in karting does not race solo2, so that may explain it.That course was laid out on the 3/8-mile asphalt oval track at Thunder Hill Raceway south of Austin. A single run was about 1.75 laps of the oval, starting and finishing at the pit exit and entry respectively. The weather was fine and sunny, and I had brand new shaved Kumho Victoracers on the 10AE. I was in the zone, and everything fell together that day. :D

As for the Camaro, well, Denny has been pedalling that thing for years, and he regularly trophies at Nationals. In fact, our Texas Spokes club has many regular trophy-getters and several national champions in our midst - everyone from 2nd to 8th outright that day is a national champ or trophier.

Originally posted by Winning
Well, I have an Sti. I know it doesn't look that fantastic, but it can kick any VQ skyline, 350Z and Neon's ass!!!! Twisties, straight line, mountain you name it!!! It is also less expensive than G35C or 350Z, in standard form unless the new GTR come out, you all can forget seeing my tail lights in mountain passes.

I am still getting my RX8 because I love the package. Even if the G35C or even 350Z is cheaper than the RX8, will I get it instead of the RX8? No way, I personally think the G35C is sooo ugly, fat and does not look as lean and sit as nice as the RX8. While the 350Z design does not have character at all, you can see a lot of Porsche and Audi TT influence in the design. And to make it worse, the same VQ engine with maxima, so expect awful exhaust note.

I love the GT-Rs 32, 33, and 34 just hope that R35 does not use the same flatform as the skyline coupe and 350Zand more powerful VQ engine . If it does, it does not deserve the GTR badge anymore!! On the other hand, if the two door RX8 use the same platform and more powerful renesis engine, it deserve the RX7 badge. Everyone agree with this?

You all have to remember that the RX8 that we are getting at the moment is sort of the beginning of the RX8 line and renesis rotary!! we don't have much choice. Expect more and better variation to come like Mazdaspeed and RX7. Then we all have more choices for different needs.

Like I said the bottom line is if I like the RX8, you can say whatever you want I don't care. If you like you G35coupe, and everyone else in this forum is getting the RX8, so what!!!! It is your money, and different people has different taste!!! Enjoy your Best Motoring track victory in your own forum, please!! And even better since you'all have your skyline coupe already, enjoy your car instead of wasting so much time in the RX8 forum!!! Just pity us that we still have not receive our RX8 yet. So if you still cannot resist to tell us about your Best Motoring stuff, please wait until sometimes next month. Because most of us will enjoy our RX8 and most likely will not be here for a while!!!

w00t. Looks like I may not be the only Scoobie converter. I will wait until the test drive to see if the RX-8 really is worth me sacrifice my AWD grip and turbo.

chris

i just want to say winning is a totally uneducated and completely retarded fanboy.

if you guys spent time reading what he wrote you'd realize he 1. cant speak english and 2. doesnt have a clue what the fuck hes talking about.

"all magazines bash the s2000 because its electronic handling sucks" - winning, automotive expert

Originally posted by IkeWRX


6.) The G35 is an impressive car, I call foul if you don't feel this way and love cars





Get ready to call foul on me then, because I'm not impressed by it one bit. My wife bought one of the first 6 speed coupes to hit the road, though I tried my damnedest to talk her out of it, and it took me all of an hour to see it's the Jennifer Lopez of the car world; big assed, and WAY overrated.

I hate it so much that Ive started doing things against it, for my own amusement. Stuff like leaving a handprint on it after it's been detailed. Or parking both my cars in the garage so she'll have to park in the driveway.

Anyway, if you think it's "impressive," great. But, some of us see through its shiny newness and realize it's not exactly the greatest thing since latex, like some make it out to be.

Originally posted by IIIseries
......it's the Jennifer Lopez of the car world; big assed.



LOL! That may be true, but I'll still jump in it and get it an occasional ride. ;)

Originally posted by IIIseries



I hate it so much that Ive started doing things against it, for my own amusement. Stuff like leaving a handprint on it after it's been detailed. Or parking both my cars in the garage so she'll have to park in the driveway.



She's a lucky girl, your wife!

That she is.

Hmmm does anyone else get the feeling IIIseries might have some issues that run a little deeper than not liking the G35 :p

What exactly don't you like about the car? Does it make your Beemer jealous? And what's wrong with Jennifer Lopez?!?! :eek:

Jesus, 16 pages and climbing to #1 viewed topic spot on this forum..... btw: I think IIIseries is kind of bitter that his wife got the car without his expert conset. :p That's gotta suck. I think I'd burst a artery if my wife buys a Mazda.

Originally posted by IkeWRX
Hmmm does anyone else get the feeling IIIseries might have some issues that run a little deeper than not liking the G35 :p

What exactly don't you like about the car? Does it make your Beemer jealous? And what's wrong with Jennifer Lopez?!?! :eek:

What exactly IS there to like about it?
That was rhetorical, so dont waste your time answering. Besides, reading about that thing bores me.

I dont own a "Beemer" so that would be a negative. If you meant "Bimmer" then that would be a negative as well. First off, comparing the two is comparing apples to [rotten] tomatoes and 2, I know which one is the better car.

What's wrong with Jenny from the block? If you have to ask, you wouldnt get it. But hey, if you're impressed by a plain looking, fat ass, no talent ho that this country adores (for some stupid reason), that's on you.

Originally posted by Skyline Maniac
Jesus, 16 pages and climbing to #1 viewed topic spot on this forum..... btw: I think IIIseries is kind of bitter that his wife got the car without his expert conset. :p That's gotta suck. I think I'd burst a artery if my wife buys a Mazda.

She can buy WTF she wants to; she earns it, she can [esp. in this case] waste it however she sees fit.

Oh, and just because I have taste and she lost hers temporarily when she ordered it, doesnt mean Im "bitter."

Two words IIIseries, ANGER MANAGEMENT! I've driven both cars and I would take the G35 in a heartbeat. I see 20 3 series to every G35, I like being a little different and also preferred the performance of the G35. Not to mention the upkeep concerns and the attitude that seems to go along with so many BMW owners, I just don't want to be a part of that crowd. When I looked at some used 330s when I was testing the market for cars the dealers attitude alone were enough to make me not want to buy the car. They are NOT the most incredible cars in the world. Though I do like and respect them enough to have considered owning one.

Good for you. I guess we all have preferences.

Personally, they could discount the G to $20k (which, coincidentally is all it-like all the other second rate Japanese "luxury" cars-feels worth) and I still wouldnt even consider owning one.

I wonder where the bad stereotype for BMW drivers comes from?

Probably the same place Lexus owners (esp. IS300 drivers) got theirs.

To be fair, most BMW drivers are very nice people. Go to a local BMWSCC event and you'll meet some of the best drivers and nicest people around. Unfortunately there are always people like III here that misrepresent the clan.

To also be fair, I should note that I've only owned one BMW, but, I was an asshole long before I bought it.

You know what they say; the car doesnt make the man.

Originally posted by IIIseries
I dont own a "Beemer" so that would be a negative. If you meant "Bimmer" then that would be a negative as well.
I can't believe you actually did the "beemers are bikes, bimmers are cars" thing... I didn't think real people did that...

-bd

hi i was just wondering what kind of wrx is in the video

is it the STi, normal WRX, or the Spec C version


thx

AFAIK - regular JDM WRX (EJ205, 250 HP, AVCS)

-bd

hey bd

and i was also wondering

what are the specs of the jdm 350z g35 s2000

Eh~ check page 12.... never mind. I'll cut and paste again.

Name------------RX8 Skyline 350Z S2000 WRX Integra R
Weight (lbs)---2889 3374 3197 2778 2999 2602
Engine-------13B-MSP VQ35DE VQ35DE F20C EJ20 K20A
Displacement--654×2 3498 3498 1997 1994 1998
Max Power-------250 280 280 250 250 220
Max Torque------159 268 268 160 246 152
PW Ratio-------5.24 5.46 5.18 5.04 5.44 5.36
Tire----POTENZA RE040 RE040 RE040 RS-02 RE011 RE040
Price (USD)---23913 29478 31304 29826 21330 22522

The WRX is the new version regular WRX with 250hp, not US spec.

thx

oike says hi to aell you!