I have recently finished installing the Greddy turbo kit and the car seems to go lean when i floor it. I am using a canscan to log everything. Since the greddy kit is locked not sure where to start looking. Please help. It seems to sputter and not have the power it should after 5000 rpm. TIA

What are the a/f ratios up there when you look at canscan? Did you raise the boost at all? Get a datalog and print it out. Then post it here.

i have the 2 log files here they are they are comma delimited

Well, post them!

(RG - I never noticed your sarcophagus was looking at me before. Creepy.)

Well, in the first run at 4200 RPM or so, the throttle is being pulled. Are you doing that or is the car doing it on its own? That A/F looked good, but then the power is being turned off.

How and where are you doing this run?

i just did these two runs about 15 minutes ago. It is about 50F outside and i live in Tampa Bay area of Florida

back road by the garage where i am working on it. I am trying to keep it at about 15mph in second then getting on the throttle.

It looks like a TCS/DSC pull, but I presume you have that turned off.

there are 2 vacuum feeds on the intake without hoses and they never had any. they are located on the side on the intake right next to each other. I have just ordered a shop manual for the rx8 but wondering if they are supposed to be capped or go somewhere?

maybe he has gremlins living in his engine...i hate those guys:(

i have them turned on should i turn that off?

ok so it looks like it goes rich is that too rich or is that right?

Hmm, let's see. Philodox reports being able to spin the rear wheels in 1st through 4th gears when he goes WOT. Admittedly this is with winter tires. Loube mentions he's running with DSC on. What do you suppose happens if the rear wheels spin with DSC on?
________
BMW 326 (http://www.bmw-tech.org/wiki/BMW_326)

drive-by-wire sucks.

we are going to dyno it now any special instructions to do so?

Ok so my mechanic has answered some of my concerns the car is running rich not lean. And the hesitation i feel is a tuneability issue. It seems to be at part throttle right around 4-5k. But now sure how i can tune that if the emanage is locked.

i thought i had a post in here... any way did it throw a too lean cel?

the system comes tuned

yes it was

the tune issue i talk about is like a sputter or hesitation at part throttle

did you insatall it yourself

install

Loube... you are not listening to what these guys are saying. You need to turn off TCS/DSC when doing these tests, and when on the dyno. Such a large TPS drop and ignition drop indicates they are likely the culprit.

Also, if you have any open fittings on the intake (you said there were two) the manifold will never fully pressurize, no matter how much boost you run. You definitely want to track down any leaks before you start spending coin on dyno time.

Tim

the tune issue i talk about is like a sputter or hesitation at part throttle

well, as stated by others, your car is running rich like it should. to be honest, greddy did a good job keeping the afr pretty flat around at 12. You've got some wierd numbers in their around 1800 that are prolly just a bad reading.

Be sure to turn the DCS off when your driving. Do you have a BOV? You might want that to help with your problem. In addition, I would take it easy on the car for a week before hitting the dyno. Give everything a chance to break in.

my car has about 18,000 miles on it so everything should be broken in. We dynoed it and drum roll please :-) the best of two runs was 240.00 whp now is anyone getting a CEL that goes like this:

ECU #=10
MIL is ON
Vehicle Reports 1 Stored Trouble Code(s)
TC1 -P0171
P0171 System too Lean (Bank 1)
Pending Code 1 -P0001--P0001 Fuel Volume Regulator Control Circuit/Open
Pending Code 2 -P7100--Trouble code definition not found

BTW i had the CEL before the turbo was ever installed. It seemed to happen after i flooded the car.

BTW i had the CEL before the turbo was ever installed. It seemed to happen after i flooded the car.


The CEL was already there? So it's probably not a problem with the turbo. Why didn't you take it in when the CEL popped up? I doubt the dealership will look at it now.

BTW i had the CEL before the turbo was ever installed. It seemed to happen after i flooded the car.

oh for cryin out loud....you might want to get those hoses you mentioned before hooked back up...

can you post the dyno sheet?

Loube - SLOW DOWN A SECOND!!

Those hoses to the intake are EXTREMELY important. One of them is under vacuum and needs to be metered and filtered. You WILL damage your engine if it is not hooked up.

This is the cause of the hesitation and the "Fuel Volume Regulator Control Circuit/Open" code.

If you had a CEL going into the install, you should have resolved the issue first.

Also, the entire power-off issue in the middle of your datalog is the TCS/DSC. Turn it off on test runs.

I think you guys may be talking to a brick wall here...... :rolleyes:

no brickwall just not at my pc. I don't know how to hook up the hoses because i don't have a shop manual. The dealer well they refused to look at any "driveability issues" because i had modified the motor by installing a intake and exhaust. I have ordered a shop manual for the 8 but have yet to receive it. the CEL appeared after it went to the dealer for the Flooding so again the dealer has some blame but will take none. I refuse to return there as they have f'ed up on other issues including a TSB for brake squeal. the changed the pads with no shims and they did not turn the rotors. i will be going to a different dealership tommorrow and see if they can help me find where those vacuum fittings go. does anyone have a shop manual or a picture of that side of the motor. the vacuuum ports are low in the intake.

doesnt the greddy kit instructions tell you where to reconnect them?

Ok so the two vacuum fittings on the side of the intake are suppose to be capped off. We did not take them off when we were installing the turbo, so we think either the dealership removed them when the motor flooded or they were never there. Car runs great still seems rich. Oh yeah fuel mileage is 12.7MPG, well see this tankful

Ok so the two vacuum fittings on the side of the intake are suppose to be capped off. We did not take them off when we were installing the turbo, so we think either the dealership removed them when the motor flooded or they were never there. Car runs great still seems rich. Oh yeah fuel mileage is 12.7MPG, well see this tankful
No!

Do NOT "cap them off" under any circunstances.

The air jet input needs air (your motor will struggle or die with is capped) and the metering oil pump won't pump without air.

In short, you WILL destroy the motor.

why did you not take before

question- who will be the first to blow their turbo'd 8?
answer- loube

question- who will be the first to blow their turbo'd 8?
answer- loube

Yah, but you can't ever idiot proof anything... because a better idiot will always come along. Does loube get an award or something? Maybe I will photochop him a new avatar.

Well, lets not be too hard on him.

There seems to be a lot of people that feel free to second guess Mazda, or any other OEM for that matter.
It never ceases to amaze me how many people will simply remove a critical component from the engine or engine management system without understanding what it does, only to be left wondering why their "mod" didn't improve performance.

Over the years on the MX-3 mailing list, there has been a constant stream of people who have arbitrarily removed their airflow meter (thinking it would "improve flow") and then posted a question to the effect of "why won't my car run?".

There exists a far greater number of people with desire than those with proficiency.

Man you guys are real critical. He is here for help on his car. Instead of acting like cornholes help him out and keep your bullshit to your selfs.


Not a sermon just a thought:)

-Broke

I think the two capped fittings Loube is referring to are the ones that are on the intake manifold and facing the passenger side of the car in a horizontal fashion. I looked at them and they are, indeed, capped from the factory. I might place some hose clamps on them when I do my turbo install just to make sure they don't mimic the problems from the FD. Thanks for the discussion on this one as you guys may have saved me from a headache or two down the road.

CRH

We are discussing the two hoses that go into the intake pipe and he had NOT attached to the K&N that was previously installed.

Back to the Original Topic On the "Lean condition on Full Throtte" I also have been having the same problem. I have been working back an forth with My mechanic and tech support from Greddy!! We came to the conclusion that the Emanage is what's at fault. It seems their may be an error witht communication of the Emanage and the ECU.

Basically what's giong to be done is that I am going to purchase the Emanage software so that we can communicate with it. Greddy is going to Email me the base mapping so that we can re upload it into the Emanage. The Tech says this should solve the problem. If it doesn't then my mech is going to have to retune the Emanage.

If you do not wish to purchase the Software, Greddy said we could send the Emanage to them so that they can re upload the data for you. However that would probably take longer because of the shipping back and forth. Not only that, but you may run into problems again so I'm just purchasing the software from a local performance shop so that it can be tuned as often as it needs to be.

The software is going to cost around $90 - $120. But that's a marginal cost in comparison to the Kit itself. Greddy said they will not send the software for free, but they are willing to email you the base maps! I don't think we have another choice. I hope this helps.

I would like to thank charles for understanding the question and aswering it. I already got my answer on Saturday from a Mazda Technician at another Dealership. Some of you should re-read the title of my post i was looking for HELP not criticism. And also i stated that the two ports that Charles just mentioned were found that way by the shop that was installing the turbo kit. We followed the directions from greddy to a "T" So i guess maybe i could be wrong but i won't be the first to blow up my car. Thank you Charles

I guess if Loube's is an idiot then so am I and a few other people cause we are all in this one together. ;) :D

We have the same problems and we are working with Greddy too. Atleast Greddy has good customer support so far.

Everything will work out in the end. I have faith! :D

Happy troubleshooting!!

Ryan

I will take the blame for not stating that those two ports are on the side of the intake manifold. I am still puzzled that i received the car like that from the dealership after i flooded the car. Capping them off has also cured my CEL it has not come back since i did that. sorry if i did not explain everything well but i was in a bit of a hurry.


:o

my apologies

I ran into the same problem today. We were driving it around a bit to make sure the hoses & clamps fit properly. There was a slight hesitation right before boost hit. We thought it might be a rich spot. We brought it over to the dyno today and at 4000-4500 rpm they the car started detonating. Real bummer, my mechanic is calling Greddy to see what the issue is. The green upload light keeps blinking like it is connected to a computer all the time.

So everyone that has the turbo kit seems to have the same detonation problem ...... well i just order my kit and im wondering is it a seriuse problem and also does every kit have that problem ..... just wondering i really dont understand the whole concept that why i am not installing the kit myself ...

Yes i am still having this issue. It has a part throttle stumble hesitation. Sometimes when you floor it , it sounds like detonation. the only way i can recreate the sound is to drive along part throttle and then floor it. sound like there are little rocks in the motor. Haven't figured it out yet. I will be visiting a rotary specialist in my area to see what we can figure out. My greatest concern is that the system is locked so there is no adjusting it. :(

Loube, you best give Greddy a call. That definitely sounds like detonation. You really don't want to drive around too much with detonation or you may very well blow the motor.

is that the problem ...that greddy is having wiht the first batch perhaps ?

How many other people are experiencing this problem? I thought maybe it had something to do with the CEL that i had BEFORE the greddy install. I was speculating that i had weak fuel pressure before the install and now with the turbo it is obviously compounded. Has anyone contacted greddy and if they have what has been their response?

Also i do not drive it all the time and i am very careful about how i drive it. We will be testing fuel pressure here sometime this week. I will let everyone know how it turns out. Oh by the way who do i contact at Greddy?

some answers for you all... in case you missed it.

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=52684&highlight=greddy+turbo

dont tell me that, iam not even finish with the kit.

Ok where do i start found a local rotary shop and he found some vacuum leaks and an oil leak. Also plugs 2 and 4 were fouled (imagine that) so we replaced them with colder plugs, car runs 95% better. Also have the unlocked maps from greddy installed on the emanage. That is great because now we can tune the vehicle. I think im going to get a boost controller. More work than i ever expected but worth it.

Ok where do i start found a local rotary shop and he found some vacuum leaks and an oil leak. Also plugs 2 and 4 were fouled (imagine that) so we replaced them with colder plugs, car runs 95% better. Also have the unlocked maps from greddy installed on the emanage. That is great because now we can tune the vehicle. I think im going to get a boost controller. More work than i ever expected but worth it.
1) Why would you replace fouled plugs with colder plugs? Should use hotter plugs to prevent fouling.
2) You have unlocked maps? How are you programming them? The current maps that have been available are for the 1.40 version of the Support Tool which isn't available to the public yet.

The plugs were fouled from before the Turbo install. I had a non rotary shop install the turbo. But fortunately i have found a local rotary tuner that has a lot of rotary experience. This is my first rotary car so i am still learning the nuances. I am a converted nissan man. I am looking into getting a 3rd Gen RX

Jeff...are the older firmware E-manages that most of us have...compatable with the new software?

No.

Well, I put my kit in this weekend. It runs like a hunk of shit. Put the new map that philodox posted in and ran 50% better. Still detonating and real choppy. I have to re retune this thing. I cant beginn to think why they would lock this map when they cant get it right.

-

my car is having the same thing it loses power is weird. I called geddy and talk to Benny and he told me that was normal in these car. I need help in these thing, the E-manage is locked how do I unluck it

Well, we had a really bad power loss right before boost, and at 3500 rpm we hit detonation on the dyno. We called Greddy and talked to Benny & he told us to send back the unit, and they needed to reflash it. After he sent it back to us it ran much better. Still has a slight hesitation, but better & it seems to get better now that we have driven it about 40 miles. No detonation problem anymore on the dyno.

I suppose this goes back to the same sort of variations that were seen by those who installed the CZ version of the E-Manage on their N/A engines.

There seem to be two distinct groups of RX-8s - those that are forgiving and adaptive and those that aren't.
Why, I don't know, but it seems that it can be worked around.

I am fortunate enough to have one of the forgiving models.

I am experimenting with the MAP that is delivered with the Greddy kit and I am about to rewire my injectors using the format employed in the kit.
I don't have any problems with my own tuning - it is, seemingly, perfect - but I am curious about what is going on with this problem some of you are experienceing.
Ultimately, I think it might be worthwhile for some of you to rewire the injector control on the E-Manage and use one of my maps instead of the Greddy tuning which is causing you problems.

^^wasn't the first batch of e-manages sent out with the kit messed up. i thought i read that on a thread here a week ago or so?

The first map I got would not let you go full throttle. It would fall on its face. with the new map you can give it some gas but soon it will detonate. I am starting from scratch and ditching the e-manage.

ouch that doesn't sound good at all...detonation on a rotary i hear is very very bad (well on any engine for that matter). i wonder why yours is doing that....this is the first i've heard of this problem..granted teh kit is fairly new.

what are you gonna use in place of teh e-manage?

I hope the second batch has no problems ...i dont think it will b/c greddy will get a bad rep if they do another bad batch

^^wasn't the first batch of e-manages sent out with the kit messed up. i thought i read that on a thread here a week ago or so?
Well, not exactly. For some people, the initial shipment works just fine.
It depends on your car.

I believe the E-Manage will work on everybody's car. Then again, I'm magic. :p

jeff, can you call me man. I need your help!
703-932-4820
-Ryan

Well, not exactly. For some people, the initial shipment works just fine.
It depends on your car.

I believe the E-Manage will work on everybody's car. Then again, I'm magic. :p


that's just wierd...i wonder why that is. i know every car is a lill bit different. But they can't be that different. i thought greddy used a very conservative tune to avoid this sort of thing and make it a universal kit. :confused:

Mine ran fine on the street. It is when we dynoed it that it ran into detonation. I hope people know what to look for when they are driving their cars with this kit on it. The re-flashed ECU had no problems the second time we went to the dyno. EGT was around 8 the whole time.

OK.

Just got done applying one of my maps to the E-Manage on Ryan's Greddy turbo install.
Seems to work fine, though it may actually be a bit too rich. But, like they say, you can never be too rich or too good looking.
He will drive that around for a few days and see how it nets out.

Attached is that map - try it at your own risk.

It is intended for the blue E-Manage and the v1.13 Support Tool.
You will need to initialize the E-Manage, which will ERASE THE GREDDY FACTORY MAP.

I need that map

Uh, I said I attached it. Take a look, more carefully this time.

the link does not work

the link does not work

That is the file. Right click on it & save it.

where

Mine ran fine on the street. It is when we dynoed it that it ran into detonation. I hope people know what to look for when they are driving their cars with this kit on it. The re-flashed ECU had no problems the second time we went to the dyno. EGT was around 8 the whole time.


hmm so it only detonated when it was dynoed...glad to hear ou arne't having any issues with the new map:D around 8 on the egt (800 deg. c) is about 1450 deg's f. that doesn't seem to hot on a rotary. wel at least as far as i understand it.

DAMMIt, i ordered my greedy kit 10 minutes ago, and i should read this thread before i order it :( so many problem with the kit already, i should wait until greddy fix those problmes. I hope i can still cancel the kit from vivideracing. cross finger.

Man, you got it from Vivid ? What did they charge you ? They are usually pretty high. Pretty much the best price I have seen is the Gold Pricng on RX8 Garage & City-Speed.

I think now the software has been updated it is OK.

A big thanx to Jeff for getting me where I need to be. Jeff's map is what should have been programmed in my car from the get go. If you are getting this bucking,detonation, and so on load Jeff's map. My car feels great and cant wait to go further.


-Ryan

that sound good iam going to order the support tool today

A big thanx to Jeff for getting me where I need to be. Jeff's map is what should have been programmed in my car from the get go. If you are getting this bucking,detonation, and so on load Jeff's map. My car feels great and cant wait to go further.


-Ryan
Wouldn't you know it Ryan - my better laptop started working as soon as you left!

It wasn't the curse of your car, though. It was this "skinning" program I run to make Windows XP more attractive. As soon as I changed "skins", it worked again.

Its interesting - the program you are running now that smoothes out the bucking and detonation actually makes my car buck in those RPM ranges because it is so rich there.

where should i order mine support tool from

Wouldn't you know it Ryan - my better laptop started working as soon as you left!

It wasn't the curse of your car, though. It was this "skinning" program I run to make Windows XP more attractive. As soon as I changed "skins", it worked again.

Its interesting - the program you are running now that smoothes out the bucking and detonation actually makes my car buck in those RPM ranges because it is so rich there.

Well it is weird this morning I was coming to work and now it started bucking at those points. Weird. Also I still want to get the ignition harness. You got that link?

-Ryan


p.s. I am going to test it again at lunch I will report back soon.

It will probably still have some issues until it is completely warmed up.

www.digikey.com can provide the connector: Tyco part# 176116-5.
However, it looks like it might be almost as cheap to get the entire harness from http://www.mohdparts.com/emanage/index.html

Well, now 3rd,4th gear are bogging(3800-4500) when I WOT but only when I start out in low rpms. 1st and 2nd have no bogging so far. We will get together and try your map again.

Ryan

Yeah, that is loading up. We can probably pull some fuel in that range as lonng as we leave the range before it alone so that it doesn't go lean in lower gears.

Sounds good. If we have time and I get to get my BOV we can try and weld her on up :). Thanx again Jeff you are da man........

Yeah, just let me know when you have time.

Attached is another MAP. This one is a bit leaner in the middle. This is the MAP I was running until today when I started playing around with the Greddy MAP (I re-wired my injectors the way the Greddy kit is wired).

It might be even better for you.

cool. I dont have the stuff to upload yet. bugger......

cool. I dont have the stuff to upload yet. bugger......
Remind me to burn you a disk.

that is what I like to hear saaaweeeettttttttttttttttttttt.

where to get the cable from? is it a special cable? At least that is what I am told.

Man, you got it from Vivid ? What did they charge you ? They are usually pretty high. Pretty much the best price I have seen is the Gold Pricng on RX8 Garage & City-Speed.

I think now the software has been updated it is OK.

yes, vivid's prices are high on the website, but being local, when Huff was around, he used to cut us (members of here and RCCAZ) deals all the time. i know there was another guy on this forum to contact.....don't know who tho.

that is what I like to hear saaaweeeettttttttttttttttttttt.

where to get the cable from? is it a special cable? At least that is what I am told.
CONTACT REMOVED BECAUSE HE STOPPED DELIVERING CABLES TO PAYING CUSTOMERS.

dam!

where should i get the support tool from? best price

http://www.mohdparts.com/emanage/index.html

thank you sir

Just a little update to my situation I have found a local shop called Mazsport. They have been working with me on my situation. Scott is currently working on my car a Nordic Green 8 with the Greddy turbo. He is currently installing a Greddy E01 + Boost Controller, Ignition Harness, and a True WideBand 02 sensor. He is extremely Knowledgeable and very detail oriented. He has repaired some of the original problems i had. Check them out if you are in the area. His address is:

Mazsport
2100 34th Way North
Suite A
Largo, FL 33771

Fax Number: 727-259-0121
Local Phone Number: 727-530-9960
Other Areas: 1-800-538-9989

www.mazsport.net

We figured it out yesterday. I will be expalining the whole thing in the near future after I talk with Greddy tomorrow.

Hey, I had a thought about the whole "forgiving and unforgiving" thing. As a ford guy for life and a ford mechanic for a while I noticed that some fords(trucks in particular) were more reliable when they were made in a certian plant. I dont know if this applies at all to mazdas as they are nor fords but it is a stab. It would be interesting to see if the problem cars came from the same local!

someone correct me if i'm wrong but don't all rx-8's come from the same plant in Hiroshima?

That is not the problem. Trust me :)

just a thought, thanks.

Maybe it's a residual radioactive effect of WWII, causing mutations in our engines :(

someone correct me if i'm wrong but don't all rx-8's come from the same plant in Hiroshima?

They all roll off the same line.

The engines are built by hand by the same group of people. Every engine is touched by the same hands.

In some respects, the RX-8 is a "boutique" car. I'm really suprised Mazda doesn't use that to greater effect in their marketing.

i have seen one more than one occurance(more than alot!) that canadian assembled fords were better and had less "ghost" problems than mexican ones. for instance i have a 93 ford 150, and a freind of mine had a same year model and we had a huge difference in diveability and reliability! Mine was canadian and his was mexican on the manufacured sticker. Like I said, just a curious thought.

iam going to fix the problem i have. iam going to take it to the shop loube gave me is located in Florida, hopefuly i could take it tomorrow.

Mazdamaniac. Thank you for all the maps you being putting on. If you say you know the problem that we are having please give us some information about it

I had the Greddy turbo installed last week by ACOSTA Motorsports. They did a great job although the installation was a little pricey - $1200. I have an AEM wide band A/F gauge which reflect a rich condition at WOT - the gauge starts recording at 11, and at WOT the gauge goes blank which means the reading is below 11. Benny from Greddy said that could be due to me having SR high flow cat and exhaust system, since kit was designed around stock cat and exhaust system. Acosta has ordered a special order pillar 2 gauge pod for my car. When I bring in the car for that they will tune to lean out a little at WOT and start up which is also too rich.

Picked up my car yesterday and boy it JUST KEEPS GETTING BETTER !!!!!!!! Runs better than ever feels stronger so on and so forth. Well just got it back and I WANT MORE BOOST !!!!!!! The E01 and O2 sensor look fabulous, and Scott at MAzsport did a wonderful job as always. He does such good work that i installed one of those license plate frames with his shop's name on it (and I have never had one on any of my cars) Well the next step will be to wire up the ignition harness so we can adjust ignition timing and probably bigger injectors.