Hi Folks:

Well after a day of crossing my fingers and a little bit of optimism, Speed Racer and I have forged ahead and did some tuning with my automatic 8 and the CZ unit. I know there will be many questions asked but please read our findings and then ask away.


Comments from Speed Racer:
Before we started to tune my10ae's auto RX-8 we verified that the electrical connections needed for the CZ unit were identical between the 4-port and 6-port motors. The electrical schematics showed that the connectors were the same and the pin-outs for power, ground, ignition, MAF, throttle position, etc... were identical. Looking good so far.
Yesterday morning we did several baseline runs in 2nd gear and recorded them using CANscan. The results showed that the car runs extremely rich in the upper RPMs, just like the 6-port engine. The lower RPMs look great and they should because the engine is running in a closed feedback loop.


Then we installed the CZ unit per Canzoomer's instructions. Detailed info and photos can be found in his vendor section of the forum. We only saw one minor difference during the install. The harness that plugs into the ECU only has 4 connectors (versus 5 connectors for the 6-port engine). The first map that we loaded on the CZ unit had the Air and Ignition maps set to zero. We wanted to make sure that the car ran the same as stock and it did. Above 4600 RPMs the car ran extremely rich and in many points the A/F ratio fell outside of the range of the wideband O2 sensor (A/F < 11)! :eek:

Over the course of many runs we slowly brought the A/F ratio up towards 13.5. This seemed to make a noticeable difference and I'll let my10ae fill in on the driving impressions:


Comments from my10ae:
First off I would like to state that even with these few tweaks we have done, the auto is still not as quick as the 6sp. With that said, the amount of tuning Speed Racer and I accomplished is a leap for fellow auto 8 owners. We did tuning from 4600 RPM to redline (approx. 7350 RPM) and have adjusted for the 2 port openings at approx. 6100 RPM and then again at 6900-7000 RPM. At these particular RPM's, we saw the car was going lean and adjusted accordingly. At the end of the day, the 2 port openings are very smooth and power seems strong till redline. The major tuning was done from 4600 RPM's to redline while in 2nd gear and in "manual" mode. The car revs much more freely and power can be felt from 4600K+. The power can be felt (read that as seat of the pants) when shifting from 1st to 2nd revving it to about 6.5K. Power that was not there before is there now. With over 150 miles on the car since yesterday's tuning, everything seems to be in order with no changes in the maps <yet?>.


Right now our plan is to make sure that the A/F ratios are stable and optimized before we make any changes to the ignition maps. I will drive the car for a week and we'll recheck the readings next weekend.



So far it is all good and the results look very promising! :D



P.S. Before anyone asks for the CZ maps, I need to point out that my10ae's CZ unit is slightly modified and it has all of the latest tweaks (i.e. full RPM readout and positive numbers in the Air table lean out the A/F ratio).

Very interesting--so what HP number are you all looking at from this preliminary tuning?

So far we are just tuning the A/F ratio to a more reasonable level (aiming for 13.5). We haven't dynoed the car so I can't give you hard numbers on the performance gains. In my opinion (take it for what it is worth) I believe that we gained at least 15Hp on this first attempt at tuning the 4-port engine. Nothing dramatic but you can still feel a difference.

I agree that it would be nice to see some dyno graphs but I'd like to hold off for a little while. At least give us a chance to optimize the air and ignition maps. Then, if my10ae is interested, we can do an A-B comparison between the stock and tuned maps.

We'll post up a graph of the A/F ratios that show the difference between stock and this first round of tuning.

Wow guys, as an AT owner I have to say thanks to you guys for such hard work and excellent research. However, as an idiot, I also don't know what any of this means :) I look forward to more conclusive tests and hopefully some Tuning the RX-8 for Dummies posts :o

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=42912

13 - 15hp for theautomatic would put us backwhere Mazda originally claimed we were. When the automatic RX8 first cameout it was supposed to have 210 horsepower. So this tuning sounds great already. Maybenow we could reach 60 in the mid to upper 7s

Wow, that's cool! Good thing something good for power is coming out for you A/T drivers. Speed Racer knows his CZ goodies, he helped me out too.

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=42912

Whoa - what a coincidence. Thanks for that! dmp also gave me a basic explanation - at least now I get the gist of it. Now I need the cz unit :)

You knowthe funny part about this my10ae isthat you posted about this (http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=19165) almost exactly a year ago from today and Maurice saidtheyd have to make a completely separate unit for the automatic.


So I guessits time for me to order one or is there something else I need in additionto the unit?

You knowthe funny part about this my10ae isthat you posted about this (http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=19165) almost exactly a year ago from today and Maurice saidtheyd have to make a completely separate unit for the automatic.


So I guessits time for me to order one or is there something else I need in additionto the unit?
I would hold off to see how my complete tuning unfolds. Speed Racer and I adjusted the A/F ratio, which helped, but we still have to tune the ignition maps. I am hoping better throtle response in the lower RPM's once the tuning is complete.

Here is what I bought when planning this project:
1. Dell refurb laptop on Ebay to do the tuning
2. Used CZ Unit 1.1 with cable
3. CANScan unit (serial) from Harrison R&D

My hopes are high as testing and tuning so far are going well :)

As promised here is a chart of the air/fuel ratios. As you can see the stock map looks great up to 6k RPMs then it completely tanks and drops below the range of the wideband sensor. Our first runs focused on trying to lean out the mixture above 6k RPMs. If you look at Run 12 you can see that we were able to make a significant change.

Tuning this car is a bit of a challenge because it feels like you are always aiming at a moving target. Making a change to one area can effect everything else around it. This is clearly shown in the midrange on Run 12. See how it is much richer than stock.

On the subsequent run I tried to clean up the midrange and it looks a lot better but I still need to smooth out the dips. The big dip around 6k RPMs will be a little harder to tame because it is very sensitive to any changes and tends to exaggerate any adjustments. There is also more work to do near redline.

Anyways, the main goal of this exercise was just to prove that the CZ unit could be used to tune a 4-port Renesis. So if you are interested in tuning your auto RX-8 I'd suggest picking up a CZ unit and giving it a try. :D

Did youguys say redline 7350 RPM? Whathappened to 7500?

Since the A/F ratio is off the chart, we compromised and went to 7350 as redline.

All this technical info within one week. My brain hurts. how would this affect the mpg?
i assuming it would get better because the higher rpms are being leaned out.

Sound like I'll pick up a CZ and installing before the turbo kit. Good luck guys with your tuning.

I have not seen a change in MPG. I have refilled the car once so far and still averaging the same distance. Yes I know the "same distance" is not a factual measurement. I have not taken the time to actually figure out my exact gas mileage. I do know that when the tank is full I can run 240+ miles before refilling.

On that note, I will be doing a few more runs and sending them off to Speed Racer. He wants to check and see if anything has changed in regards to the maps. Car feels the same, strong pull from 4600+ with no lag. Reviewing the maps will verify and if there are any spikes or drops, we will work on smoothing things out.

More info to come...:D

Good work--we'll be waiting on the updates

It looks like we have had a small set back with the tuning. my10ae sent me a couple of data logs and it appears that ECU has undone our changes with a long term fuel trim. If you look at the chart you will see that it is running extremely rich again. :(

my10ae and I live about an hour apart so it is a little challenging to get together frequently. Right now the plan is for us to meet up on Sunday and try again. So look for another update on Monday.

Back to the drawing board. :( At least I still have the zero map to start out with and then do some subtle changes to the A/F ratio. Hopefully we can get this adjusted so the ECU doesn't reset itself back to stock.

More tunage this Sunday. :D Anyone want to head up our way to see how its done? Drop me a pm.

i wondering if this happens to the 6 speeds ??? iam thinking you went to aggressive all at once and it sense it.

Yes, I have seen the same issues on my 6-spd and that is why I wanted to wait a few days to see if the changes actually took.

Anyone out there with an auto have a CANscan unit that can check something for me? If you have one, please check what your throttle position at idle and then again with your foor to the floor. I used my CANscan unit and finding at idle I'm at 16% throttle and at full throttle I'm at 78%


Anyone else experencing this?

Anyone out there with an auto have a CANscan unit that can check something for me? If you have one, please check what your throttle position at idle and then again with your foor to the floor. I used my CANscan unit and finding at idle I'm at 16% throttle and at full throttle I'm at 78%


Anyone else experencing this?

We get 78% as full throttle also in the 6spd

any new developments?

Considering a foot and a 1/2 of snow fell over Sat night into Sunday, we cancelled the tuning day yesterday. We are shooting to do some more tuning on Feb 6 (BEFORE the Super Bowl). We will let everyone know what we did/checked on that day.


Sorry for the delay...

We get 78% as full throttle also in the 6spd
The throttle value has to be converted to a 100 scale.

use x-12*1.5...will give you real value.....

I am real glad this is under way
i tried to get this started on a AT car months ago

thanks man

No problem Mikeb. I've waited almost a year for Maurice to work on this. So I finally bit the bullet, bought a used CZ unit, laptop, and a CANscan unit. Working with Speed Racer to do some tunage on my auto. We had some setbacks, but look forward to getting back to tuning on Feb 6th :D

UPDATE...

Speed Racer and I did some more tuning today. We did 18 runs and found that we tripped the fuel trim 3 times. Before we continued tuning, we performed Drive Modes 1 and 3 within TSB "Engine Crank No Start". This was to be sure that the ECU was back to "normal" specs.

Speed racer adjusted the A/F ratio from 5800 RPM (Speed Racer, if I'm not relaying the numbers correctly please let me know) to redline. After a week of driving the car, the fuel trim tripped and all the work we did was overwritten but the OEM maps. We went a little more conservative with the adjustments this time. There are still a few "bumps" in the RPM range we can adjust, but we want to make sure the maps are still being utilized a week from now. If the maps still look good next Sunday, we will try to adjust for those bumps.

We also adjusted the ignition timing. Biggest timing advance was 8 degree's. Speed Racer adjusted from 3500 RPM's to approx 5800 RPM's. The advance in timing was really felt between 3800 and 5500 RPM's. The car now has some really nice pull within those RPM ranges. I was actually breaking loose from a dead stop into 2nd cruising around today (granted I have snow tires on, but I could not do this before we made the change) Pull feels very strong in the lower to mid-range and the A/F is helping in the higher RPM's to redline.

I am hopeing these adjustments keep as the car has a completely different feel to it in regards to pull. I might even go out on a limb an say we added maybe 15-20HP with today's tuning. Again, nothing is factual as far as HP goes, but the pull in the low to mid-range can significantly be felt.

More updates next weekend on whether or not the maps stay or get overwritten. I am keeping my fingers crossed. :)


Speed Racer will be posting up a graph of today's results soon.

my10ae and I spent the day tuning his auto. This time around we did things a little differently. We started out by disconnecting the battery to clear the ECU and the long term fuel trim. The we did the PCM Adaptive Memory Produce Drive Mode 1 and 3.

Mode 1

Start the engine and warm it up completely.
Verify that all accessory loads are off. (A/C, headlights, blower fan, defroster, radio)
Verify initial ignition timing and idle speed are within spec.
Run engine at 2500-3500 RPM with no load for 15+ seconds.
Run engine at 4500-5000 RPM with no load for 15+ seconds.
Idle the engine for 60+ seconds after the cooling fan has stopped.
Turn off ignition switch.
Mode 3

Perform Mode 1 first.
Verify that all accessory loads are off. (A/C, headlights, blower fan, defroster, radio)
Drive vehicle at any speed for 5+ minutes.
Drive at 55+ MPH for 1 minute.
Drive 45-55 MPH for 3 minutes.
Once that was done we did another baseline run and looked for the areas which were running extremely rich (A/F of 11.1 at 4800+ RPMs). Our first maps of the day started with a 3% adjustment at 4800+ RPMs for 90-100% throttle. The following run went to 6% and the A/F ratios looked great through 6300 RPMs. The third run we increased 6300+ to 9% but noticed that the A/F was still out of range at 11.1. On the fourth run we increased 6300+ to 12% and that tripped a long term fuel trim. Which in turn caused the A/F to drop to 11.1 from 5600+ RPMs. On the fifth run we left things alone and noticed that the A/F dropped to 11.1 from 4800+ RPMs.

At that point we started over by clearing the ECU and did the mode 1 and 3 again. This time we started our changes at 5400 RPMs to try to stay clear of any closed loop interactions. After several runs the long term fuel trim reoccured and the A/F ratios started to drop back down to 11.1. We also noticed that 5800+ RPMs was running rich but not falling off the scale.

We started over again and this time the changes started at 5800 RPMs and we used our previous adjustment values for that range. We stopped tuning the A/F when we got it into the 12-13 range. We will leave it like this for a few days and see if it remains stable.

The final adjustments for today look like this:
5800-0, 6100-10, 6200-12, 6500-12, 6600-22, 6800-22, 7000-25, 7200-25, 7400-22

After that we focused our attention on the ignition map. Our plan was to gradually increase the timing so that we would reach 30 degrees of advance at peak engine torque. Then hold the 30 degree advance until redline. This made a noticeable difference in power once we hit 4000 RPMs. Let me put it this way, my10ae was having a little too much fun with spinning the rear wheels every chance he got. :D

Ignition map:
500-0, 1000-3, 1500-3, 2000-3, 2500-3, 3000-3, 3500-4, 4000-4, 4500-6, 5000-8, 5500-8, 6000-6, 6500-5, 7000-4, 7500-2, 8000-0

my10ae,

I guess you beat me to the post.

Do me a favor and keep track of how the car feels. If you find any problems areas we can focus on them next weekend.

Youre actually spinning thetire now my10ae? Hah! Onlyway I couldever peel out before in my automatic was via neutral slam.

This is good news--hopefully you guys have more success. I don't know how I could even begin to tune mine since each RX8 seems to respond differently.

1st day notes...

I had to zero out the timing advance from 500-3500 RPM's. Car is very sluggish and underpowered this am on the ride in to work. With the advice from Speed Racer, I zero'd out the map from 500-3500 RPM's and went for a few test rides. Car no longer feels sluggish from 850 to 3500 RPM.

I'm not sure if advancing the timing 3 degrees in this RPM range caused the issue, but now that they are back to zero, all is working great. I do feel a slight "hesitation" when in 4th gear at approx. 71mph and at 3400RPM's. When I try to accelerate, there is slight hesitation to approx. 3600RPM and then the car has power. Speed Racer and I will review this small issue on Sunday.

That's all for now. I will post up if anything else changes as for as the maps go that we tuned yesterday.

2nd day notes....

On the advise of SR, I zeroed out the 3000 to 3500 RPM range. This helped the sluggishness of running in 4th gear at 71mph. the mid-range punch is still there around 4000+. All timing advance we did this past Sunday from 500 to 3500 is all back to stock. We will try to dial back in some timing this Sunday when we do some more tweaking.

That's all for now. Maps still seem to be in full function mode! :)

I asked my10ae to zero out the maps as I'd rather play it safe until I have a chance to look at a few more data logs.

The ignition map on the CZ unit is setup to look at the MAF voltage and the RPM. As of right now we have the changes set only by the RPM. To do it right we will need to do a lot of data logging under different conditions (partial/full throttle, varying weather conditions, different gears, etc...). This will give us a better idea of how the stock ECU adjusts the timing in these conditions and then we can make the proper adjustments from there.

So the automatics computer keeps hampering your progress?

So the automatics computer keeps hampering your progress?
I wouldn't say hampering, I would say we are learning the in's and out's of the auto ECU. Since no one has done any tuning like we have for the automatics, its a learning process. We tune and tweak a little here and there, see how the ECU/car reacts and then make the appropriate changes.

We will continue to make some adjustments this Sunday regarding timing. We will also check the A/F maps we have adjusted to make sure they are still being utilized by the ECU.

As far as I can tell, the ignition and A/F maps are still in place and being used between the CZ unit and ECU. We've come a short distance in regards to tuning, but at least we have found out for ourselves that the CZ unit does indeed work with the automatics and now its just a matter to tuning to our hearts content! :D

Good reply.

Now that we've got the "easy" part done. We need to spend some serious time collecting data under different conditions to fine tune the maps. This will allow us to get as much power as possible without causing the ECU to compensate or the engine to ping. All of that work is wearing me out just thinking about it. ;)

You guys are doing a great job, there are alot of other RX-8 drivers that aren't as technical as you are, but really appreciate the pioneering you are acheiving with the Auto RX-8. You may be doing all this for personal satisfaction and not fame or recognition but sometimes you have to take the good with the good. Kudos!

You guys are doing a great job, there are alot of other RX-8 drivers that aren't as technical as you are, but really appreciate the pioneering you are acheiving with the Auto RX-8. You may be doing all this for personal satisfaction and not fame or recognition but sometimes you have to take the good with the good. Kudos!
Thanks Spr grn8. Speed Racer and I are not doing it for the recoginition and fame, we are doing it to help out fellow auto 8 owners to get more HP out of our cars

Thanks for the good words :)

All Im saying is that as soon as you guys figure out how to get optimal maps that remain consistent and stable w/the ECU - Iwill be ordering the unit for mine. I just hope my old automatic 8 (manufactured back in June 03) doesnt require completely different tuning. As far asIm concerned youre my heroes. :p

More updates... (Speed, please post up if I miss something)


Speed Racer and I got together again this past Sunday and verified my maps are holding. Maps look good as we didn't trip the fuel trim. We did a few tweaks to the timing from 3000 to 3500 rpm. Since I had an issue with hesitation last Monday with the advance at 3 degrees, I changed it to 0 from 3000 to 3500 rpm for drivability reasons. Changed timing to 1 degree advance from 3000 to 3500 rpm and still had hesitation on the way home from Speed's house. Changed the maps back to 0.

I am going to do a bunch of logging this week under all kinds of conditions and speeds. The object is to adjust the timing in regards to the MAF voltage. I am still getting a hesitation at approx. 3100 rpm in 4th gear at 71mph at 1 degree of advance. (not taking in consideration of the voltage of the MAF). Hopefully the logs will show where we can change the timing where it is needed and to keep drivability in the higher gears and speed.

Still more tuning to come but things are going well. As I stated in another post, this tuning is a slow learning process. We are slowly making progress and will keep all posted. :D

That sounds like a fair description of the work we did on Sunday.

We have a solid base map. Now it is time to do a lot of data logging and a little tweaking to make it perfect.

So are you still able to spin the wheels in second gear? ;)

Thought I'd check in and see how your doing Kevin. Hope all is well. How's the weather?

Hey guys:


Sorry, I took the weekend off this past Sunday. Being Valentine's Day weekend, I spent time with the wife. I will be doing some adjustments with timing in the lower RPM range this week. Will bump up the timing from the 1900 to 3500 range. We'll see if I run in to any pinging/hesitation.

I will keep all posted.

sounds good thanks

Well at least you have your priorities in order Kevin. You might drive your temptress
during the day, but you get to lie down with your wife at night. Good on ya.!

my10ae, check your pm's. please that is.

Spr grn8:

How you making out with the maps I sent you?

I am going to do some more runs tonite to tweak my timing from 4K on. Anyone know if you can adjust the timing below 4K with success? I tried playing with timing below 4K and the car ran stronger, but idled very rough.

I will adjust the 4000-5000K rpm range tonite and see if I can get a little more power out of those ranges. :)

I haven't had much luck below 4K with the timing...it seems to hesitate even with 1-2 deg of advance. I have a couple of degrees at 4K and up to 6 in other areas. I'm also going to work on the 5-7K area this weekend. Hope to find a bit more there. Will be dynoing next weekend...hopefully will get a better idea how it reacts...I've got a few maps with varying degrees of advance I want to test.


Anyone have any advice for where to add advance the most effectively.........and how much total advance could be possible??

I plan on downloading them tomorrow. Wish me luck.

Hi all:

Did some tuning Friday nite and found some more power. :) I adjusted the timing in the 4K column and all is responding well. I tried adjusting the timing below 4K but it just makes the car idle rough and I "feel" no improvements. No rough idling since adjusting the timing 5 degrees from 3.10 to 4.50 volts and moving the timing to 4 degree's from 2.15 to 2.85 volts. No pinging and power comes on very strong once hitting 4000 RPM.

Next step is to adjust the timing for the 4500 RPM range and then on to the 5000 RPM range. Peak torque is at 5000 RPM (for the auto's) so I'm hoping to try to get the most power in that RPM range.

I will keep all posted...

Spr grn8: How did you make out doing your tuning?

Can I suggest something? Since I have been playing with below 4K on my CZ, I have some experience as to what gives power and what gives rough idling. Anything below 3750 rpm, do not adjust the ignition. If you look at your Canscan logs on the ignition part, you will see that the lines go up and down in the closed loop area. As soon as your car runs above for open loop, the ignition lines start becoming more linear and sometimes straight for a certain range.

Here's why I think ignition should never be messed with in the close loop area:
That is how the ECU manages the adjustments based on the AFR readings it gets. Ignition is advanced if AFR is below 14.7 and retarded if above 14.7

So, what I did is adjusted the airflow readings for the closed loop area. Over the course of experimenting for 3 months, I found the threshold for my airflow adjustments without causing an abnormal compensation from the ECU's side.
1% adjustment gives it a leaner mix, not much difference except your exhaust notes gets throatier and meaner.
2% adjustment gives a good push in the lower revs. Very noticeable expecially when you suddenly step on it from 2500 rpms. Saved gas too.
3% adjustment gives inconsistent performance. It feels like 1% and I wound up losing gas mileage.

So what happened there? Well, it seems like I was confusing the ECU too much. I made it think it was getting lesser air than it was, so it was giving less fuel to the mix making it leaner. By the time the mix is converted into energy and gets sent to the 02 sensor, it gives an abnormally lean reading. I was getting as much as 15 - 16 AFR sometimes. And so it dumps more fuel the next mix comes.

1% - 2% adjustment doesn't give this kind of confusion for my car. Other cars may have different threshold for closed loop airflow adjustments. Just do what I did and keep the gas consistent through out. I used Chevron 91 at the same pump every time.

This adjustment was done for the whole column, that means 0 - 100 throttle. Yep, idle too :D

PS. I have a 6-speed M/T. Someone contacted me about tuning CZ for Auto, sorry I can't help you with that. I'll chime in here with whatever I can. Good luck to you A/T's!

Sounds good Kevin, I was planning on installing the hardware and downloading maps this last weekend as the canscan and cables were supposed to be here friday at the latest. Its been over two weeks, But nothing showed up friday or saturday! I talked to canzoomer and they say it was sent "regular mail" but even by regular mail it should have been here already.. Funny thing tho the invoice sent by "regular mail" arrived already!

Sounds good Kevin, I was planning on installing the hardware and downloading maps this last weekend as the canscan and cables were supposed to be here friday at the latest. Its been over two weeks, But nothing showed up friday or saturday! I talked to canzoomer and they say it was sent "regular mail" but even by regular mail it should have been here already.. Funny thing tho the invoice sent by "regular mail" arrived already!

What can i say? screwups happen.
Packages by regular mail take anywahere from 3 days to 3 weeks, usually at around 10 days.
Letters take about a week, pretty consistently. Different sorting as letters do not go through customs.
BTW, the CANSCAN was sent within the US by Express Post, and looking at the tracking I think it got "stuck" or lost. We sent out a new CANSCAN today by Express Post ( the other one was insured) and a new cable will go by Fedex tomorrow, on my nickle.

We send the separate letter for the invoice and credit card slip for credit card orders as some people have issues when others open packages and get their hands on credit card slips, not to mention the odd p*ed off wife..

I really appreciate that some of you are taking the time to do this with the auto transmission version.

I am not able to as I simply do not have access to an AT to test on.

Some things to consider:
As you have seen, when you tune in closed loop mode, the ECU "adjusts" defeating your work, over some time.

There are ways to work around it, like clearing the ECU with the battery ground trick.
I do not think the "Mode 1 and Mode3" tricks help, unless you do not want to disconnect the battery, and doing the the accompanying stuff like setting steering cal for traction control, clock, radio station tuning settings.

Some guidelines:
1) If you tune the car in the sections where it runs "closed loop" it will fight you.
Closed loop is when the car reads the O2 sensor and dynamically adjusts timing and AFR to maintain 14.7:1 AFR and "safe" timing.
2) Open loop happens above a certain rpm, and throttle postiion.
On a 6MT this happens above 70% throttle, and above certain rpms.
The rpm cut point is not consistent across the gears.
In 1st it makes the transition at about 6,200rpm
In 2nd this happens at 5,500
In 3rd and up it happens at 4,800
So, if you tune in 3rd, and all looks good, but you go below 200rpm, then a few hard runs in 1st gear will cause the ECU to adjust it's long term fule trim richer by about 5+% and it defeats the tuning.
This is the cause of frustration to so many who say the unit does not work.
I do not know from hands on where the AT uses for the cutoffs as I have only tested on my and other MT cars.

My advice:
Tune above 6,200
If you want to tune above 5,500 avoid full throttle runs in 1st gear.
Install a replacement bettery ground post that has the 1/4 turn knob to disconnect, as this makes clearing the ECU trims easier.
In about a month Dan Harrirson and I intend to sell a newer CANSCAN RX-8 unit that allows one to set some ECU map tweaks and load/save maps from the ECU.
We are mainy aiming at:
Clearing fuel trims
Adjusting idle up to around 1,000rpm ( removing the RX-8's characteristic rough idle)
Adjusting the redline cutoff to 10,500
Eventually we hope to decode enough of the PIDs ( data areas on the ROM) to be able to allow you to have customized ECU maps.
Of cpurse, before you go to the dealer you will have to restore to stock ort the diagnostics WILL be pissed off.

As far as advance goes, a couple of degrees belwo 6,000rpm is OK, and saves some fuel, but too much and the ECU compensates it's trims.
Always put zeros in the first column as the setting in that column works down as well as up!

When the good weather returns to Alberta I will be able to get some decent tuning time in again and make some more maps. I find that maps done at cold temps make great power in cold temps.
But they are not right for warm weather.
The air is so much denser and the car has thermal sensors, and it will not ping when the air is cold whereaas it will in warm air.

Enough rambling for today..

Maurice,

As always, thanks for sharing your insight on the unit!

P.S. One of these days I'll get around to sending back my original CZ unit to get it updated to the latest daughter board. I just have a hard time living without it for that long. :p

is it going to be possible to update the old CZ Canscans when the new version comes out?

Spr Grn8:

How did you make out with your auto tuning?

Just curious...

All I can say is that you guys are my heros.

I think its awsome yall have got the AT RX8 to get the tires loose in 2nd gear ;)

I can get mine to do it if I am in Tiptronic mode and let off the gas shift to 2nd and gas it. It gives me a little slip on my back tires. But nothing big ;) Really fun to do in parking lots when its wet too ;)

But I will be checking back on this thread to get my daily or weekly dose of an RX8 *cargasm* yeah thats right, an orgasm over a car ;)

Anyways I g2g. Cya

This is really a break through from my prespective. I have been waiting for some boost for my car. People just don't want to invest their time and money in the a/t cars I know maurice would but he just does not have one at his disposal. I am just waiting till all the testing is done so I myself can purchase a CZ unit seeing they are a canadian company and I have purcahsed things from them in the past and they have been real fast and friendly and it only costs me 7.5 cents per minute to call them if i feel like boring them with my questions :). Just had a quick question will having a exhuast or intake installed on your car make the way the unit works on your car different. I mean like say you post the A/T maps after its all done does it have tobe altered to compensate for the intake and the exhuast being on the car or is that irrelavant? I'm sorry if you think that is a dumb questions but its just a question that i had burning me and I hope someone can address it.

Just had a quick question will having a exhuast or intake installed on your car make the way the unit works on your car different. I mean like say you post the A/T maps after its all done does it have tobe altered to compensate for the intake and the exhuast being on the car or is that irrelavant?

Unfortunately the CZ really is not a true plug & play device and it seems like a fair number of cars will need some minor tweaking of the maps regardless of what mods have been installed.

We will be doing a little more fine tuning this Sunday on my10ae's car. When I looked at his last datalog the numbers looked solid and were very repeatable. The car is running a little rich and there is still room for improvement.

I've also been talking with spr grn8 and he has recently sent me a few baseline datalogs. His numbers are quite abit different from what we have seen from my10ae. Before we go any further we just need to make sure that we are comparing apples to apples. Hopefully we can get the differences sorted out and get another tuning project going.

Once you guys get i working out in a few weeks i will purchase a used unit i got a laptop and get a canscan :) thanks again guys

Once you guys get i working out in a few weeks i will purchase a used unit i got a laptop and get a canscan :) thanks again guys PM me when you get a CZ..you can use my canscan if you want

any new developments?

The maps continue to be steady and we made a few more tweaks to try to lean out 6-7.5k RPMs. Right now we have a 35% change in the map but the A/F is still rich and hovering around 11.5. So we still have room for improvement but it feels like a solid base map.

excellent--how much power or how much faster would you guess the car is?

Someone reallyshould get a stock automatic on the dyno for us so we can see what were really putting down to the wheels. Id like to know exactly how much power theyve made when theyre done.

Thanks to SpeedRacer and My10ae, I was able to load a base map to my Rx8 yesterday. I made a few data logs but haven't ran any comparisions yet. I will do that later today and try to get a chart out to compare stock runs to the runs with the adjustments made. What I noticed (my girlfriend even commented) is that it sounded smoother across board, from gear to gear. More power/response in all gears. I know in the lower rpm range no changes were made, so i was trying to get in the higher rpm's before shifting to evaluate performance. I notice that i would be at a lower rpm to acheive the certain speed than before, i.e before adjustments 3700 at 80mph, now 3300 at 80 mph. Overall it seemed you could tell it was running leaner, if that is possible, but thats the best way to describe it. It will be intersting to see if having leaner settings will aid in gas mileage. That is something i will monitor this week also. I wasn't expecting some huge jump in Hp or low end torque, but a good way to describe what i got is to say there is a more polished increase in performace in all aspects.

Sounds good! When you get a chance, send me a couple of data logs and we'll see where we can continue to improve things. :)

keep it going guys

I would love this mod on my 8

me too, i'm chomping @the bit to get one of these things... keep it up!

Update: spr grn8 updated his CZ unit (full RPM mode) this weekend to make tuning a little easier. This last change matches my10ae's setup and he can now use the same maps. So we plan to collaborate on any changes to the maps.

If anyone else wants to join the fun. Let me know and we'll get you setup with a base map and I'll try to walk you through the steps of collecting data and making any necessary changes to the maps. You'll need a CZ unit (preferably one with the internal on/off switch and setup to run in full RPM mode), CANscan, Greddy eManage Support tool w/ USB cable, and USB extension cable.

where do u suggest purchasing these things?

Keep an eye on the RX-8 Parts For Sale/Wanted forum (http://www.rx8club.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=44). It seems like there is normally at least one CZ unit listed for sale at a very reasonable price.

Ive got a question for you guys who have this installed - how easy is it to pop the CZ unit off my car (along w/anything that can be traced to it) and then pop it back on? Im just wondering b/c I know thatmy service rep wouldnt be too thrilled to hear one of his mechanics telling him about some ecu piggyback sitting under my hood the next time I go in for service.

Also once you disconnect all traces of the unit only to reinstall everything hours later - does the ECU easily adapt back to the CZ units tuned settings - or does it act stubborn forcing you to go over everything all over again?

The first install takes the longest because all of the connectors are tight and you are learning your way around the engine bay. So plan on it taking about an hour for the initial install of the CZ unit into the ECU box. Converting it back to stock, before taking the car in for service, takes about 15 minutes and you can do all of the work with just a 10mm socket. Likewise you can reinstall the CZ unit in about 15 minutes. That is one of the perks of this setup.

If the maps are done correctly, you shouldn't have any problems with switching between stock and CZ.

Updates!!!!

Sorry, no updates from me this week.

Let's see if my10ae or spr grn8 have any news.

Hey Guys:

Nothing really new to report regarding the tuning of the CZ unit. Everything seems to be running smoothly for now. Will probably have to adjust the timing when it gets a bit warmer around here.

I did install a Borla last weekend. Gotta love the deep throaty sound it give the car under acceleration. This is how the exhaust on the 8 should have sounded. Along with the added HP from the CZ unit, the Borla just added icing on the cake :)

Gtech!!!!!

Sounds good my10ae - whats next? Midpipe to top it off and pollute your surroundings? :D

FYI - there is another CZ unit for sale in the RX-8 Parts For Sale/Wanted forum.

Hey, I had the N-Flash done last week and ran a data log with the canscan. I posted in the N-Flash PCM thread in the tech garage about my results. Drivers with the AT RX8 should
read it , it might give some insight about tuning with the new flash. If the data log is consistent, the only tuning I/We may have to do is tweaking AFR's above 5K Rpm. Similar to the adjustments SpeedRacer sent me initially. After the re-flash to N, AFR's are almost perfect below 5k rpm.

Spr grn8:

Glad you are making some headway to tuning our auto 8's. :) Did you say that since the N flash you don't need to adjust the ARF's below 5K? Where abouts are you tuning it right now? Speed Racer and I have only touched the AFR from 6K to redline. (I have the M flash) I have adjusted timing from 4K to redline and that has seemed to help a lot. I really has a nice kick between 4K and 5K due to the timing advance.

Keep up the good work.

I would like to get the car dyno'd to see what she is pushing at the rear wheels. Anyone have a baseline dyno pull for a stock auto 8?

Yes, i had the N-flash done last week. I will try to get more data logs to verify the AFR's below 5k. My next tuning will be similar to what you have done above 5k (6k). Right now i would focus on AFR's and timing above 5k. Here's my .pdf file log from the other day.

I wish I could follow what you guys are doing

I would buy the unit but I wouldnt know what to do with it

I wish I could follow what you guys are doing

I would buy the unit but I wouldnt know what to do with it

yeah anyone written a canzoomer for dummies?

I'm a dummy and I learned it (with some help from Speed Racer) :D

yeah anyone written a canzoomer for dummies?

You are not the first person to ask for that. Check out this thread (http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=42912) for more info.

crap, how did I not see that... it's a sticky :eek:

crap, how did I not see that... it's a sticky :eek:

Hey we all zone out by the end of the week! Well at least that's my story and sticking with it. :p

FYI - there is another Canzoomer and CANscan for sale (http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=58244).

My10ae,
You may have already posted this and I just overlooked it but how is your fuel consumption now compared to what it use to be before the canzoomer?
Thanks,

My10ae &/or Speed Racer
I do understand the need for tuning and understand that the 8 needs some but that's where it ends. Most of what you are talking about and doing is WAY over my head. I've read the "dummy" post and it still is confusing. Since no aftermarket manufacturer seems inclined to tap the automatic market, My question is would it be to my advantage to purchase a C1(.1) and find a local tuner?

so all the additional power comes after 4,000 rpm, correct?

any estimations or dynos about how much power is really opened up here?

Phil,

At first tuning the CZ sounds very daunting but honestly it becomes much easier after you do it a couple of times. It is just time consuming. Give me a call and I'll walk you through it. Check you PMs for my phone number.

Snizzle,

Yes, all of the adjustments were made above 4k RPM.

FYI - my10ae is the President of the M'sters Miata club and he has reserved some dyno time on Saturday for the club. He is obligated to bring the Miata but maybe if you guys give him some encouragement he would find someone to drive his RX-8 over to the shop too. ;)

I'd like to go but my weekend is already booked.

My10ae,
You may have already posted this and I just overlooked it but how is your fuel consumption now compared to what it use to be before the canzoomer?
Thanks,
My fuel consumption has actually stayed the same since installing the CZ. Nothing scientific here but on a full tank of gas, I can still go 240+ miles, just like I used to be able to do before installing the CZ unit. I know, I know nothing to back my claiming of a measureable "tank" of gas. All I know is my gas consumption has stayed the same since installing and tuning the CZ unit. :D

Snizzle,

Yes, all of the adjustments were made above 4k RPM.

FYI - my10ae is the President of the M'sters Miata club and he has reserved some dyno time on Saturday for the club. He is obligated to bring the Miata but maybe if you guys give him some encouragement he would find someone to drive his RX-8 over to the shop too. ;)

I'd like to go but my weekend is already booked.
I think it would look pretty bad of the President of the M'sters Miata club showed up in his 8 for the dyno day. Maybe I could have the wifey drive the 8 over. :)

Anyways, what is involved with dynoing the 8? I have heard that without the front wheels spinning the car can go into limp mode. Anyone have any idea on how to properly dyno the 8?

my10ae,

Check your e-mail.

Wow! A lot of info in this thread. Unfortunately I can't look at the last posts for conclusions and have to follow from the beginning posts.

In order to help me digest this info, I am copying the posts into MS Word. The posts were written in a casual conversational style, so I'm editing for clarity, eliminating extraneous words, combining sentences, explaining abbreviations, etc. I'll re-read the results and see if it makes sense to me.

I have an AT, and if I can understand how to tune it, I'll make the leap to the Canzoomer unit. This seems to be the most efficient, least invasive way to increase horsepower, allowing you to return the car to stock condition easily.

Thank you guys for your hard, pioneering work. If you could, how about a summary of your work on how to tune Canzoomer for the AT, for us dummies. We are not worthy, but we'd sure appreciate it. :D

After the MS Word edit, I got a better understanding, but lost it half way through the thread. Don't know. Don't know if I should jump in an buy a canzoomer unit.

When you get a chance, post up your MS Word file. I'll review it for content and add more detail where it is needed along with some photos and/or screen shots.

After the MS Word edit, I got a better understanding, but lost it half way through the thread. Don't know. Don't know if I should jump in an buy a canzoomer unit.

I'll let you know shortly. I purchased a used system and should receive it soon. Speed Racer has offered help and I hope he does not live to regreat it

Phil:

SR is a good guy. If he had the patience of me asking dumb questions over and over about tuning the CZ unit, you should be fine :)

Darn, my MS file was wiped out when I transferred it from my work computer to my home computer. It will be some time before I do it again. Sorry, but I give up easily.

Phil@desertboilers.com (Phil@desertboilers.com):


Did you get your CZ unit yet and have you started tuning? Just curious..

I was away for a few days of R&R and just returned home. Got the CZ unit - I just forgot I need a lap top. The lap top that I will be using belongs to the company and will be in use for the next week or so (also a little intimidated).

Phil

There was a note in the box with the CZ:

"I don't have the stock map installed. I tried to install another map. Be sure you get the stock map from someone. I never saved it You will need to reinstall the stock map before running your car. Enjoy"

Am I in trouble??

No, this is not a problem because we are going to make a custom map. I'll send you the last map I worked on with my10ae. That should give us a good starting point. :)

Does anyone have a good stage1 or waterd downed stage 2 map? Last I have are from sept 04....

Spr Grn8:

How are you making out with tuning your 8? I haven't heard any updates from you in quite sometime. Hopefully you are enjoying the added power that the CZ unit offers. Please let us know.

my10ae,

So how is the CZ doing with the warmer weather? Do we need to make any minor adjustments?

SR:

Things have been running pretty good so far. I do get a "slight" hesitation when in 3rd gear around 4600RPM. I think the warmer weather has changed a few settings with the A/F ratio. Maybe I should do a few runs and log this incident and then you could review and let me know what you think?

Other than that, the CZ runs great, even in the warmer weather. :)

Yes, try to catch the behavior in a data log and we'll get it sorted out. :)

Speed Racer:
I copied the thread on install and got the pictures. So I don't embarass myself I will try to hook it up as shown. I can just turn the switch to off so the unit should not effect me untill I am ready. If I have any hair left and my nerves are under control I am thinking that the first trial will be Friday evening - Saturday Morning. My grandkids are all over me to take them water skying on Sunday so nothing will get done then. Unless something prevents me, you should hear from me on Friday at the agreed upon time. I do not have the internet at home so if I need anything before I call let me know now. I get on line at 4am (my time) Monday thru Friday

Phil@desertboilers.com (Phil@desertboilers.com):


Did you get your CZ unit yet and have you started tuning? Just curious..

Sorry it took so long to get back to you. Speed Racer and I have been talking and we drug Morice into it also - had a problem. I'll be trying again in a coupe of days. I'll let you know how it goes.

Did Maurice help you out with the getting the cable to show up on a lower COM port?

If not, you should ask your guys what items have been plugged into the computer (i.e. printer, keyboard, mouse, camera...). If you can get your hands on any of those items we can then plug them into the laptop and see how they show up in the device manager (i.e. COM 4). The trick is to find something with a low COM number. Then we can uninstall that item and use that COM number with the progamming cable.

I know this is a pain but it is only thing I can think of to free up a lower COM port and allow your laptop to communicate with the CZ unit. Maybe some of our resident computer gurus can offer up some other suggestions.

DOH! the dreaded com port issue and IRQ interrupts. Don't cha love pc's? :D

Speed Racer:

Well, Maurice got a com port to work (com 4). Talked to my Techs and they have Com 1 and 2 configured for a pug(s) into a boiler controls system and have asked me not to uninstall 1 & 2. They tell me that the program they are using requires those ports.(?) If this becomes a problem then I'll just get another lap top.

My 8 is headed for the shop today and as soon as Mazda repairs my a/c, I'll start again.

COM 4 should work fine for the Greddy Support Tool. We also need the CANscan to show up some where between COM 1 and 8. Then we should be good to go. :)

Speed Racer
Another problem poped up. My radiator cooling fan seems to have a mind of its own all of a sudden. I havent driven the 8 since it came back from the a/c repair. Was hooking up everything and when I turn on the ignition to power the tuning computer and it also powers my cooling fan (car had not been driven - cold). I think it's going back to the dealer. I searched the posts and have not seen any problems with this fan.

If what I need to do does not take long I am willing to go ahead but do not want to draw down the wimpy battery to much or cause another problem. Suggestions??

We got moved - This may encourage others to tune their a/t 8s

I'd hold off until the fan is fixed. Let me explain why. The fan turns on when the ECU sees that the coolant is above 190 degrees. It can also cut back on the ignition timing and richen the air/fuel ratio in attempt to protect the engine when it is hot.

Seeing that the problem just showed up I'd be inclined to think that this is probably caused by a loose connection. Before you take the car in to the dealership double check the connection to the coolant resevoir. If that doesn't work I'd remove the CZ unit to see if the problem goes away. If not, make an appointment with the dealership and let them track it down.

The past couple of nights, on my drive home from work, it's been mid 60's F with moderate humidity and I'd swear that the car has 10+ more horsepower (compared to the daytime 85F). The difference is amazing. If my laptop wasn't a piece of crap, i'd love to pull some numbers off the canscan.

190 seems a little late to be turning the fan on, especially for a rotary. I wonder if there's an easy way to kick the fan on earlier. But 'ecu' and 'easy' are generally on opposite ends of the spectrum with this car.

The past couple of nights, on my drive home from work, it's been mid 60's F with moderate humidity and I'd swear that the car has 10+ more horsepower (compared to the daytime 85F). The difference is amazing. If my laptop wasn't a piece of crap, i'd love to pull some numbers off the canscan.

190 seems a little late to be turning the fan on, especially for a rotary. I wonder if there's an easy way to kick the fan on earlier. But 'ecu' and 'easy' are generally on opposite ends of the spectrum with this car.

I know the feeling and I don't even have a CZ unit. I think it has something to do w/the cooler air entering the engine through the front ducts. Almost acts like a cold air induction kit would. Boy those times are fun!

MY10ae, SR and others,
There were a few things keeping me busy lately. Let me update on my status.
I recently got a new laptop, Windows XP. It seems to have some issues when logging data runs. I get several error messages and the program and it wouldnt let me save to a file, the data log i was trying to save. I had the N-Flash done and noticed a great improvement. I posted in a couple of places that i found the AFR's from 2k-5k nearly perfect, in the 13.2 to13.7 range. ( I was wondering if anyone else with the N-Flash experienced the same thing?) It was still a bit rich from 5k to red-line. I have the RB exhaust and Revi intake. Both sound and feel very nice. My next step was to possibly use my old and new laptops to get data. I would use my old laptop to take data readings , then use my jump drive to transfer the data to my new laptop and make any adjustments and to upload any new maps to my CZ unit. This weekend may be the first time in a while that i can actually get out and do some driving. If anyone has the N-Flash or greater and with or without a CZ unit, and any RB components please post here and share your car performance. Sorry i havent posted here in a while but I will post any performance results or updates i get to share with all you AT owners. This AT section is a great place to share, lets stay involved. Good driving.

spr grn8 (http://www.rx8club.com/member.php?u=7779):

Thanks for the update. I need to play with my A/F a bit to smooth out a bit of roughness I get at 4200K when going to full throttle while in 3rd gear. I have a slight hesitation that I think adjusting the A/F might be able to help. If not, I might bump the timing down a bit to see if that helps.

SR: I will try to find some time this weekend to get this logged and will send you the logs.

So far with the Typhoon, Borla, and CZ unit my auto has been running like a top. I am still a happy camper :D

Well I picked up my 8 from the dealer on that fan problem I was having. He could not find the reason for it's faulty operation. Told me the readout was inconsistant with what he had read loged a few days before (when I had the air fixed). He "reset" the car (?) and the problem disappeard. I tried the CZ again and woops here came the fan again. I am going to do a reset as discribed in the forum and see if it again goes away. Been looking at the plugs and pins to see if I damaged one but can not see any problem. Have an idea on how to give myself more room for those last two plugs so that I can be sure of their positive mating. I sure wish there was someone local with a CZ that I could try mine on their 8 and see if it's just my 8 or CZ unit.

Going away for the weekend and will do something when I return - May have to send CZ unit to Maurice to have him test it.

hey everyone, im john and im from the philly area just recently got a 05' 8 and ive been reading up on your research, im very interested in starting to try this cz, just a bit weary cause i dont really know much about how it works, i would of gotten a 6sp but i work in the city and its constantly stop and go traffic so a at is a more practical solution, but i would love to gain some more power, if anyone can give me their contact info so i can get rolling with this id greatly appreciate it, my email is psudigitalpimp19@aol.com and im handle is psudigitalpimp

Woops, what did I miss? Being a "put if off untill tomorrow" type of person, I was just getting around to sending my CZ unit off to Canzoomer for a checkup and noticed that their site is gone and that most (if not all) of the threads have been moved to a new "Greddy emanage" forum. Is this supposed to tell me something?

I also noticed the Canzoomer Vendor forum is gone too. It 's threads were moved into the Greddy eManage sub forum.
So what's up Maurice ?

I have a couple of (fairly simple) questions:

1. where can I get a Canzoomer?

2. $$?

3. where is the Canzooming for dummies site?

4. What kind of HP/tq gains have you guys seen?

5. Is it worth the trouble of remapping the ECU and such?

6. Whats the difference in stages of the Canzoomer?

Has anyone made any progress with the A/T? Mine's a dog from a dead start. :(

Well--with this new interceptor X ECU it looks as though auto owners will be able to bolt up turbos and what not and get some more power out.

I have a couple of (fairly simple) questions:

1. where can I get a Canzoomer?

2. $$?

3. where is the Canzooming for dummies site?

4. What kind of HP/tq gains have you guys seen?

5. Is it worth the trouble of remapping the ECU and such?

6. Whats the difference in stages of the Canzoomer?
All of your question are anwsered in the following forum
http://www.rx8club.com/forumdisplay.php?f=63

You have some reading to do, but it's worth it.

Has anyone made any progress with the A/T? Mine's a dog from a dead start. :(
I got some decent power out of my auto 8 but have since reset the ECU and haven't tuner it back yet. Still waiting to get flashed to "R" and then do some fine tuning. I will post up after I've been flashed and tweaked...

how much is for cz and what else can i add to increase power to at rx8