So it finally happened, snow. What better time to see what your expereinces are with the snowtires you've choosen to challenge the weather with your 8. By the end of this winter, if we have enough people responding here, we will know what the best winter tire should be for the 8. Either that or have very interesting stories to tell.

I went with Toyos 215/55 with 17" steel rims, so far that the grip isn't as good as I would like during turns and making those normal winter road driving adjustments. Still I didn't have problems getting out of the driveway and onto the unsholved roads and down the 404. Breaking distance is the same for any car, earlier the better, but I felt confident and stopped where I wanted. So far, I would say, not great, but good enough.
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i have the michelin pilot alpin p2's, but haven't had to use them in the snow yet.
However, we are getting some snow today in Toronto, so will be my first test.

My only worry is the grip on corners. I don't have much experience with RWD cars, so it shoudl be interesting.

Hi hobbes-just posted my first impressions of the GT c/w At/ Hankooks in a related thread. So far, excellent.

I got the 18" 225 45 on my stock wheels...

They are Bridgestone blizzaks LM22 V rated tires... Yes finally tested them out today...

Not bad.. well ofcourse this morning the traffic was slow so can't really test them out the way it should be tested.... but getting up slight hills and downs are not a big factor..

will test them out more when I go home..

overall its pretty good..

mzpeed

I've got the Yokohama Ice Guards 225/45/18's on my 8. This is their second winter and they work like a charm.

If its snowing too bad or there's a freeze predicted. I shelve the 8 and take out the old S-10.

Hi hobbes-just posted my first impressions of the GT c/w At/ Hankooks in a related thread. So far, excellent.

Dang, I didn't want to start a mirror thread, oh well.
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Toyos Garit HT 225/55 R17 . A lot better then I feared . better trackion then my old front wheel drive minivan. I was following a SUV that had bigger problems with traction

:cool: Drove out at lunch today in Mississauga... most boys and girls were sooo afraid of two inches of snow and ice...
Heck ... My Japanese Toyo's were so cool >>
Doing 40-50 -- Slammed on my brakes.. no skid .. they stopped..
At an uphill stop light.... hit the pedal.. no sway .. straight ahead..
Hmmm ... been bullshitting my Toyo's so far ...
But today .. hmmm they performed ..

Zipping around today with the Hankook Icebears and overall it did well. I did sway a bit twice. Mind you this happened on ICY non-gravel treated residential areas. Regular roads were fine though. This is my first RWD car so maybe that can account for the noobieness (don't worry I'm not flooring the accelerator coming out of turns).

But I wanted to ask if how the other Hankook users in Calgary are doing. I know there was at least one or two other guys here.

your Japanese "toyos"???.. that is the oddest way I've seen anyone refer to a non domestic brand of tire...

would you refer to your Kumhos as my "korean" kumhos........ ?

AHA!! Buddman ... I know you got Hankooks on your 8 as well. How'd they do in icy residencial areas in the aftermath of our recent Calgary snowstorm?

Had the Bridgestone Blizzaks 225/55/17's installed a week ago, just before the drving turned lousy in Calgary last Saturday. Pretty pleased with the way they feel on snow and ice. Not too grippy on bare or wet pavement, but that's to be expected with winter tires.

I've got the Yokohama Ice Guards 225/45/18's on my 8. This is their second winter and they work like a charm.

If its snowing too bad or there's a freeze predicted. I shelve the 8 and take out the old S-10.


Are the Ice Guards rated as winter performance or winter snow and ice??
They have those microbubbles in the tread compound right?
How do they wear?
I have the blizzak LM22s on my stock wheels and they've been working very nicely and got me driving up snow covered mtn roads (see the "Post your snow pics" thread)

Michelin pa2's here. So far excellent, but it hasn't snowed much yet and the ground is not frozen. Especially good in dry road. Handles close to 97% of the bridgestones on dry.

PROBLEM: Drive a little aggressively for 5 minutes without burning out and I smell rubber is burning when I go close to the tire.

TRADE OFF: Soft sticky rubber for great performance but faster wear, I guess! Time will tell. If I don't get at least 4 seasons out of these guys and I won't go back to them and buy something that lasts a little bit longer but not as competent.

This thread would be great around February when we have had a decent pool of snow storms and freezing conditions to reflect on and advise others.

You know what would be really cool, if we had a little spreadsheet with 4-5 colomns advising performance, price, tread life etc... each guy completes a row and changes it as his/her impressions of the snow tire changes throughout the season.

I know Mic and I are going to have it out at some point this winter to see tire traction comparisons. Probably set a little course up in an empt y parking lot. The more guys that show the better data that can be compiled. Heck I'll even tape it so others can see the differences.

:cool: Wow.. got a bigggg Buzzz on some black ice a week or so ago.
Got off the 407 at Derry .. turned right and stepped on it a bit -- 60km and the car fish tailed like crazy .. good thing no barriers or cars...said wow.. got to work and people were telling me how they slid through stop signs,, so not sure what to think.. anyway in all other conditions the Toyo's have been good to me..

:D Hey Mic, I did a little fish tail'n as well today. But just easy'n off the gas a bit and the RX8 straightened right out. All the snow were getting reminds me of that song: "When the snow outside was frightfull... The Dunlop M3's I had on the 8 said "Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow...".

Actually, we had a few good days this week to take the 8 out into the snow. Glad I put the snow shoes my car early, because a lot of people were sliding around. The Tuesday SUN had a picture of all the bumper to bumper traffic caused by the snow fall and I got a kick out of seeing a picture of an 8 with all the other cars in the highway pic. Damn, I should of cut out the article and scanned it to show you guys.

You know what would be really cool, if we had a little spreadsheet with 4-5 colomns advising performance, price, tread life etc... each guy completes a row and changes it as his/her impressions of the snow tire changes throughout the season.

If Anyone knows how to do it, by all means go for it!
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Toyo Garit HT 215/55-17, starting second winter on them.

They're great - reasonable on dry pavement (sidewalls a bit too soft for my liking, but Toyo summer tires have that same issue), and quiet. On snow, good grip, very predictable breakaway and recovery characteristics. Also good on ice. When it snows, I tend to turn off the DSC, since it interferes too much. I prefer to have the car able to move around a bit, and to be able to slide it when I want to (frequently). My 6 year old daughter loves it, my wife rolls her eyes when I slide it around!

Regards,
Gordon

My Bridgestone LM-22's are working fine. Good in the snaow...not bad on ice. There is some slippage but I always get going. I choose these tires becuase they should wear quite well. In Calgary the weather is all over the place until June so I need a tire that can run on dry roads one week and show the next.

The only complaint i have is that the side wall seems a bit week...I guess that is to be expected on a winter tire.

Up in Alora yesterday .. got there and there was 4 -5 inches of snow on the grounds.. then the white stuff started coming down big time...passed 3-4 vehicles up various hills that just couldn't make it.. the Toyo's worked nicely ...

Dam, I have yet to try mine in any sort of snow, slush or ice. Not a freaking snow flake on the ground where I live in Mississauga :mad: I guess I'll just have to be patient.

Hankook W300 Ice Bear 225/50R17 V rated. Excellent so far, on a couple of inches of snow, slush, and bit of ice. Also excellent on dry pavement.

Judging by the comments so far, I think its safe to say the as long as you have some sort of winter tires onthe car, the RX8 works very well in the white stuff. Different brands will have there pros and cons but overall the message is "just get winter tires"

Just had my tires switched over yesterday by the Dealership.

Toyo Garit HT (215/55/17) H-Rated mounted on cheap FRD128 rims (packaged deal from Tiretrends). Will post pics later for anyone thinking of buying.

Overall, it's a MUCH softer ride than the Dunlops as it's more forgiving on the knicks and bumps in the road. There's a perception of a looser feel, far less road feedback than before. In the turns, it feels like the grip just isn't as prominent. Again, it's just perception... the car still handles beautifully. I managed to go up to 130km/hr on a straightaway, and still pull some high speed turns with confidence. I'm sure the 210km/hr rating is accurate.

In the rain, they definitely channel water much better than the stocks. However, because it has less grip to the road, the car is much more susceptible to tire spin. In the piss rain Vancouver, I got caught spinning the wheels on an inclined start.

No snow yet in Vancouver... I'm hoping for it. Will post some pics when I get home.

Toyo Garit 225/17 on steel Mazda rims...Works like advertised. Very happy so far.

Is anyone here running with steel rims besides me? Just curious :D
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Toyo Garit 225/17 on steel Mazda rims...

Sometimes the words give it away ;)

Are the Ice Guards rated as winter performance or winter snow and ice??
They have those microbubbles in the tread compound right?
How do they wear?
I have the blizzak LM22s on my stock wheels and they've been working very nicely and got me driving up snow covered mtn roads (see the "Post your snow pics" thread)

The Ice Guards are rated for sever snow and ice. I took them out after a good snow and a packed slick parking lot and they did their job nicely in both conditions Smooth ride, but since they are sever rated and soft, they have a speed restriction of 90 mph. or something like that, but driving in traffic, I can't reach that anyways, but I don't come close to that mark with winter driving.

Yea it has the micro-bubble compound in them. http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/jk/031022.htm

So far the wear has been great. The go on the 1st part or Nov. or the middle part of Nov and come off in mid March. So far they are doing good. They saved my butt a couple of times last year when we'd get freezing rain or a light dusting on packed roads.

Sometimes the words give it away ;)

It's apparent that the cold has affected my ability to read.. :p
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The Ice Guards are rated for sever snow and ice. I took them out after a good snow and a packed slick parking lot and they did their job nicely in both conditions Smooth ride, but since they are sever rated and soft, they have a speed restriction of 90 mph. or something like that, but driving in traffic, I can't reach that anyways, but I don't come close to that mark with winter driving.

Yea it has the micro-bubble compound in them. http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/jk/031022.htm

So far the wear has been great. The go on the 1st part or Nov. or the middle part of Nov and come off in mid March. So far they are doing good. They saved my butt a couple of times last year when we'd get freezing rain or a light dusting on packed roads.


I see..... thanks for the link.... I guess I should've done more research before buying mine :( I wanted a severe ice and snow tire that was in the 225/45/18 size but I only looked at blizzaks and pilot alpines and they only made 17 inch sizes. So I guess my next winter tire's gonna be the yokos then

I had 3 months to hunt down tires so I read a lot about tires...more than I ever wanted to know...since no one had winter tires in stock let alone 18's.

When I need to replace these I'll probably get something similar. But hey, I don't know about you guys in the great white north, but here in MN we're looking at brown x-mas.

In the Toronto, Ontario area it's pretty brown. The summer tires (18" OEM Dunlops) do not stick in cold temperatures. I could invoke the DSC, driving at a moderate pace in corners with the Dunlops in 0 degree celcius temperature. With my winter tires (Hankook W300 225/50-VR17) I can drive a lot harder in the same conditions and there is no change in steering response or feel (V rating and stiff side walls); they also worked great in the last bit of snow and ice we had last week. Silica rubber based snows last about 2-3 winters depending on how much dry and warm weather driving you do before they loose their ice capabilities, it may not be worth buying very expensive snows (Hankooks are the lowest priced V rated tires) if it is mostly brown during winter.

I installed 17" Toyo's on mine. I live in Ottawa, so there's snow everywhere. Car handles great in snow, light or deep. Handles badly on wet ice (either warm tire or temp. around 0 degrees. But nothing will help on wet ice so we still have to drive carefully.

And yes mine smell of burning rubber when driven on asphalt for some time. I always had winter tires on my cars and never had this smell, but then these are wide high performance tires and they are much quieter than any other ice and snow tires I've owned.

Will they last as long as others? Probably not, but then all performance tires don't last as long as normal ones.

I use the 8 every day, all day (13K km in 3 months), and would I drive without the winter tires? No way, they improve traction greatly, stop faster (except on ice), take off is faster and wife feels safer.

Deep in snow, in Ottawa.

Hey Bellef,

Are your Toyo's H-rated or V-rated?

Very little snow here in Bolton but I took it out to a parking lot last week and was impressed at the handling with DCS\TCS and the Toyo Garrit's. Still waiting for a good dump of snow to give a real test.

I had Pirelli SnowSport 210s (215/55 17s) installed on Monday. Tonight was my first run in the snow. I'm very happy with the handling of the tires and the 8. I was concerned about the rear-wheel drive when deciding to buy the car. But wow ... it handles great. And when you do fishtail a bit either on a corner or when accelerating, the TCS kicks in and straightens you right out. The ABS rocks too...this is my first car with ABS.

I just got to work . I had a chance to test out my new hancook icebear 225/40/18 snow tires. These things are great. SNOWPLOWS and cars/trucks were getting stuck and i'm passing by them with no problems at all!!!

Well it finally snowed in the T.O. and the tires did there part..although starting from a dead stop was a little sketchy...otherwise the drive in wasn't that bad..

oh..i have Toyo Garrits HT (17")

Well, as I described in another thread, my first experience today with the Blizzak WS-50s was a bit hairy. Nonetheless I did manage to complete the 12-mile commute to work, whereas with the stock Bridgestones I know I would have never made it down my driveway! The conditions don't get much worse than they were this morning, so I think I'll be okay this winter.

Michelin Pilot Alpines here. Got down the driveway no problem. Then had a lot of trouble getting started from that point as the snow was about 8-10 inches high and heavy (because it was just below freezing). Once I was moving no issues excpet for the little slippage now and again when accelerating to hard and then DSC comes in.

Howvwer, I figured out the best way to get going in deep heavy snow:

- Turn DSC off
- Start in either 2nd or 3rd feathering the clutch a bit to get going.
- Once you got momentum, put DSC back on by letting off the gas temporarily

Once I got on to the main roads which were driven on, no problems and very good performance.

I beleive the ultimate reason why I had trouble getting started was that the snow was about 8 inches high and the whole bottom of the car was being suspended a bit.

Toyo's here.
Worked well this morning , bit of an issue on a couple of the streets due to the realy deep stuff. Generaly the car work quite well ... so long as there isn't anthing deeper then we got today.

General observation
Get winter wiper blades ( my last vehicle had a defroster that would defrost the wipers as well (hint , hint Mazda)
Clear the rims out or you get nicly UNbalanced wheels
Clear the snow scoop out of the front of the car:D

I'll have to go out to a parking lot tonight and have some fun

Toyo Garrit HT's on 17" and they worked great, very impressed by their performance and the Rx-8 with it's TCS/DCS. Was able to get through some heavy stuff as well as heavy stuff on certain inclines without too much trouble. Braking was great, ABS worked well and I didn't have to turn off DCS at all in the thick stuff. Hope to have some time tomorrow to hit a parking lot.

Took a late night run to Future Shop ..really to test the Hankook's. Very impressive. No surprises..stayed on the less plowed sidestreets.. kept the revs in check on ice with TSC/DSC off for a 1/2 k of excitement. Have fun RotorWheee! Merry Christmas to all RX-8 GTA'ers!

Not a true winter tire, but I'm quite impressed with the set of 245/40 Conti ExtremeContacts I'm running now.

I use a 4Runner as the winter vehicle, but the first impressions of the Conti's are that the tire is a significant improvement over the stock Bridgestone 040 rim protectors. Ride is better, the noise levels are way down (the 040's were deafening after 22,500 km), and the dynamic behaviour is better than I expected. Traction on the unplowed streets in my neighbourhood is fine - I'm not even engaging the TCS.

As a "touring" tire, as opposed to a summer performance tire, the Conti's seem to work well. I'll keep you posted.

Also - Tiretrends have them on for $180 Cdn/tire, which is a sizable discount to what I could get the comparable Pirellis or Michelins for here in Calgary.

Cheers

I recently installed Nokian RSI 225/45R17 winter tires. I am amazed at the performance. Stopping, starting and turning all great. The DSC system is always on and is definitely worth the price. Time will tell how these tires will last.

I have the Pirellie 210 ..got stucked in a side street with heavy snow build up. Need some push to get out fo the mess. The snow is about 10 inches so many car got stuck even front wheel so I do not surprise. Have to trun off the DSC to get out of the mess. Other than that the rest of the drive seems ok. ABS started a lot during today's icy condition and the TSC was on when I rev it over 4 K while making some turns but its a predictable fish tail. DSC self adjusted the car so it won't go more than a couple feet of swings.

Pirelli Wintersport 240's 225/45/R18 - V Rated on Stock Alloys
Dry & Wet Cold Weather - Excellent - better than summer RE040's in sheer grip.
Not as good in quick transitions - mainly due to added tread depth.
Main thing is they track very well - better than the RE040's in ruts.
They are also very quiet.
Snow? Adequate. Drove in lots of varying conditions from slush to ice to hardpack.
If I had to drive on snow most of the winter - I wouldn't advise these tires. I'd mount a narrower tire on 17's with a more aggressive tread.
But 95%+ of my driving in the GTA is dry to slush covered roads.
Best winter driving style? Slow and steady gets there in one piece.
Does that stop me from being the fastest on the road? No pride in being in the ditch with all those people you just passed laughing at you!
I drive at a speed that I feed comfortable with. 4 snows with DSC ON, and an easy accelerator is quite good. I don't have any problem keeping up with traffic.

Funniest test was trying to start on a snow covered hill - about 6% grade - just spun the rear tires and slipped back down the whole hill.

Try the same thing in an awd, and I would have made some forward momentum.
In terms of snow confidence - awd with lsd and 4 snows is a whole bunch more fun, but the 8 is ok.

I'd say as long as the car is moving it isn't too bad. Stop and beware - it may be a problem to get going again.

As for the LSD and DSC off - works very well - easy to hang the tail out in a controlled fashion.

Rotator, try starting in 2nd or 3rd. It works great actually even without DSC. The only problem I have is starting when the snow is packed higher than the bottom of the car, Basically like my Fu--ing street which still has that much snow on it! I don't know where my tax dollars are going , quite frankly. Anyway. DSC off, start in 3rd, you can pretty much get through any winter road. Once you start rolling, put DSC back on.

Shamblerock,
Thanks for the tip - I'll try it. Clutch be damned!
As for my clutch? I think it's on its way out anyway. Something is wrong - I can smell burning clutch after coming off the hiway.
Doesn't make any sense. I've run clutches well over 200K km's on much more powerful cars. This clutch has problems with any kind of shifting above 8K. There is major hesitation before power is applied in the next gear. That's with granny shifting!

Rotator, what your smelling is not clutch but the snow tires melting off at higher speeds or aggressive acceleration. Next time, boot it around for 5 minutes, stop and smell the rear tires. You will smell burning rubber. Not to worry, eveyone gets this smell regardless of winter tire brand.

As for the hesitaqtion you are feeling, the clutch characteristics on this car is that you have to keep you foot on the gas a bit. basically don't totally remove your foot or do it very quickly so that when you engage the clutch when shifting upwards a gear, gas is being pressed simultaneously . Failing this will cause that hesitation/jerking at any speed. I know the clutch is a funny one and is not similar to other clutches. However, the reward is when you do a number of nice smooth shifts in an evening, it feels great. Its kind of a sporty clutch I guess and certainly not too dumby proof. You can't get lazy with it, it must be feathered in every shift a little.

After a while, you'll be able to chirp the tires going from 1st to 2nd and 2nd to third everytime!

I doubt highly it is rubber from the tires - no way you are going to get a burning smell when it is -10C and wet on the roads. Tires are ice cold.
They are V-Rated - 240km/h - so no way at 80-120 km/h would any burning smell be evident.
This is most definately clutch.
As for my hesitation - 2nd to 3rd gear - clutch disengaged - 100% throttle - and there is a delay. Not sure if it is slipping there as the RPM's don't shoot up. Just a large lag.
I'll try getting on the accelerator sooner like you are suggesting.

I also doubted at first that the smell was the tires. But its true. Don't take my word for it. Drive on the highway for 15 minutes and smell your rear tires as soon as you get off. Alternatively, drive the car hard for 5 minutes without having to burn rubber but accelerate strongly often. Then smell those puppies in the back. You may also have a clutch problem, but if the smell you have is the tires as I suggest, it will certainly be a big releif for you. Go up to them by 2-3 inches and take a wif. If its parked in a garage, it is more noticeable. But not stinking up the entire garage. So you may have clutch issues.

I have v rated as well; Michelin Pilot Alpines. The V is for the side reinforcement. The tread is really soft so it remains flexible in the cold.

I'm so sure you're tire will smell like they are burning that I am willing to buy you a drink at the next RX-8 meet in Toronto (not scheduled yet) . Let me know the result if/when you tried it.

I also smell a burning smell as well, most noticeable when I park in the garage. I smell it even if I do not slip the clutch to get into the garage. :confused: I thought it was tires, but tire temps are dead cold. I suspect it could be the smell that Mazda/Petro Canada oil smells like when it's burned. Need to discuss this at the next meet, Shamblerock?

so THAT's what it is!!!
LOL wow... thanks for the info guys.... I was worried my clutch was going too..... but yea that burning smell does smell A LOT like the clutch!
And yea it only happens on long drives that involve highways and such

Based on what I've analysed, if the winter rubber meets the road with a rear wheel drive car, you are going to have to donate some rubber to the road. I don't think the low temps elimiate the burning altogether but probably reduces it compared to hot temps. In short, IMO the better the winter tire, the better the traction, the softer the compound and the larger the donation. If you get snow in between the rubber and the road, I suspect it will wear much less.

I agree, this should be a topic for discussion at the next RX-8 meet.

Hapy new year guys.

Shogun, BTW, did you open her up yet? You should be close to the end of the Shogun break in period" ! Tell me what you think while she's at WOT.

Shamblerock, it really moves :eek: , can't wait to get the summer tires on and some warm temps to really see what it she'll do. The Hankooks W300's really grip for winter tires on dry/wet roads and seem to be pretty decent in the snow we had, heavy throttle will induce the DSC. Maybe have a meet after the Detroit Auto Show (Jan 13-23), as I plan to attend on a weekday and I can tell you how it was.

Glad to hear you are happy. I know I am happy with mine. Yes, I think we should have a meet at the end of this month.

Shamlerock,
rear drive, front drive, all wheel drive - doesn't matter which.
rear drive only has additional tire wear on the rears if you abuse the throttle and SPIN the rears. If you don't ever induce throttle oversteer, the front, and rear will wear pretty much the same - especially in a car the has a 50-50 distribution - fronts naturally should wear quicker as they are responsible for steering and braking.

Now - getting back to the burning smell.

It is especially noticable when parked in a garage. I have no idea what it is.

Other smells? Coolant sometimes.

Rotator, I have a feeling that the "push" action of rear wheel drive cars is harder on the tires because of the weigth shift to the backand the back end applies a downward force on the tires the more you accelerate providing good contact and greater friction to the road. Front wheel is a "pull" action and under acceleration the weight comes off the front tires because the front end rises. Just my views/experience since I had the exact same tires on a VW front wheel drive Passat V6 for 5 winters and never smelt rubber even though I pushed it often. No way these winters are going to last on the RX-8 for that many winters. On the OEM Bridgestones that came with the 8, I never smelt the burning rubber smell so I conclude its the soft winter compound that is melting off more quickly because its rear wheel drive. Hey, I am no engineer, but that's my opinion.

I agree with you that fronts will wear on the sides more for sure. But you bring a good point about the braking because the weight shifts to the front every time. However, you are on the acclerator more often than you are on the brakes so I don't f_king know anymore.

No coolant smells from my car.

Shamblerock,
Yes, you are on the accelerator more than the brakes - but only to overcome friction. As for weight shift - in our cars, with 50% distribution weight shift is equal on both fronts and back.
Any CAR is capable of decelerating A LOT faster than they are capable of accelerating. But if you think about it - unless you never stop - you are accelerating exactly the same amount as you brake.
You are only on the accelerator more than the brakes due to friction forces - wind, tire friction, etc.
No coolant smell? That's good.
I will have to trace mine.
All I know is the car runs pig rich - the exhaust pipes are black within a couple days.

Rotator, I hope you successfully figure out your problem(s). As for the black pipes, join the club; we all have the same issue according to the feedback from others on this site.

Shamblerock:
Parked the car in the garage and the tires were completetly wet, the water should have masked the smell. I could really smell something strong burning; now suspect rear brake pads as I did several hard stops before entering the garage.

Relax Shogun, I'm 99% sure it's your tires. My winter tires stink up the whole garage, even after I've been driving on snow or they're completely wet. Either that or it's a strange coincidence that we both have rear brake pads that started "burning" soon after we installed our winter tires. If you're that worried, put your summer tires back on and see if the smell still exists after hard driving.

Shogun, I'm of the same opinion as RX8 Buckeye. It didn't happen with my summer tires. Its too large a coincidence that most of us have this burning smell with winter tires.

As for your other post on the CEL, mine never came on ever once so I can't help in that instance.

It's not your tires burning, it has nothing to do with the tires or the clutch . . . There coincidence is that it is winter, not that you have winter tires . . . My 8 doesn't smell because I am not driving it but my old Audi smells exactly the same as you are describing, particularly if I beat on it. It is quite simply all the salt water and crud off the winter roads building up on the exhaust, engine, transmission and brakes. When that stuff gets baked by very hot parts it stinks really badly, like burned oil or like cooking brakes caused by a seized caliper. It has been particularly bad here this year as the roads have been wet for about a solid month now. The Audi like the 8 is pretty low and has a longitudinally mounted engine/transmission which exposes a lot more hot metal down near the road. Other FWD transverse setups, lower performance cars or taller vehicles don't seem to be affected by this issue as much, if at all. The issue becomes a real challenge with an old car like my winter car when you are second guessing if the smell is really normal road crud burn-off or a looming problem. Oil leaks, seized calipers, slipping clutches or similarly smelly things shouldn't be the picture for any 8 yet I should hope . . . I made winter tires give off a burning smell only once, got stuck trying to do a standing start near a ski hill on a 20% grade covered with snow and ice, gravity won. The 8 will leave lots of extra rubber around in winter though, too much power for those poor winter tires. I was getting lots of wheel spin on cold dry pavement with the summers just before I put it away. The tires won't smell though unless go for some real burnouts . . .

Scoop, interesting perspective but I totally disagree. The smell is coming directly from the rear tires and not underneath the car in a general manner. RWD or FWD, shouldn't make a difference with your theory.

Yes, I also disagree. In all my winters of driving, I have never experienced a smell like this. The smell is definitely stronger by the rear tires.

I checked this out yesterday, and could smell a burning smell by the back tires. This after only about 10 minutes driving on bare pavement. At first i thought it might be my clutch, since I'm still getting the hang of manual, and from time to time I've ridden the clutch.

Have you noticed that there is a huge honken mufler next to the rear tires, lots of spray from the rear tires are going to coat it. I have experienced this for years, a low performance car with big exhaust smells much worse than your average car in winter. None the less that's just one factor and not the only possible issue.

It could be your parking brake cable hanging up also. When the car smells like that when you stop it, touch the center of all four wheels to see if one or more are hot or at least a lot warmer than the others. If a caliper is seizing or the parking brake is stuck the hub will get quite hot to the touch and it will stink badly. Don't directly touch any brake parts at first, things can get hot enough there to burn. In general if it is quite cold you probably do not want to use the parking brake. I already had the parking brake cable adjusted by the dealer on my 8 becuase it was really lazy when retracting so there might be a clue there. For fun I had a look at the service manual and yikes, the rear caliper looks very similar to the Girling units that have given me grief for years on German cars. I sincerely hope that's not the case. I noticed previously though that they dipped into the Bosch parts bin for the ABS setup so anything is possible. For the adventurous types you could pull a rear wheel and see if the parking brake cable is retracting properly. It hooks on a leaver that drives a small cam into the back of the brake piston. There is an exposed spring connected to that leaver that should return it fully to a stopper when the hand brake is released. I have had the guts of Girling self adjusting rear calipers fail MANY times but it usually takes several years for the first occurrence, then you hop on the rebuilt parts treadmill. If things start to seize up you can sometimes clear it by jabbing really hard at the brakes a few times, I would do that and then not use the parking brake for a week and see if the symptoms go away.

Scoop, thanks for taking the time and effort in providing detailed responses to this thread and sharing your experience/knowledge. It make us all that much more informed.

Just got back from a 40 KM highway trip. No booting. Can smell the burning rubber scent coming from the back. But less than I expected. Re the parking break may make some sense, but it is just too much of a coincidence for all. However, I will keep my eye on the parking brake operation and even have mazda look at it next time I go in, just to rule that out.

One other thing to consider is a very soft initial couple of milimeters compound on these snows. Maybe that piece burns off real fast and then slows a bit as the compound gets harder/older. Because if you notice, at least on my set up, the snows were super quite when first put them on.

Well lots of winter tires get harder as the tread wears but it's not because they are older. On many tires the compounds are layered with the outside part being very soft. i.e. made with multi-cell/foam like rubber or filled with nut shells or silica etc. They can't make the whole tread out of that as it in not mechanically strong enough. Tires like that can be very grippy but tend to wear super fast, like one or two seasons and they are down to harder rubber like all-seasons. That's why I like Hakkas, same compound throughout and the sips are very deep in comparison, I can get about four seasons out of them. The tires shouldn't get a much louder though, I had tires that got very loud before but they were on a path to self destruction. If the manufacturers name begins with P, be careful. Also make sure you have enough pressure in those tires, you usually want to run winters 3-5 PSI above what you run the summers. That will keep them running cooler and lasting longer.

Hey Scoop, you are right about the "PP tire manufacturer. Once had a bad experiernce with a set on my wife's car.

Just ordered from Tire Rack
225/50VR17 Bridgestone Blizzak LM-22
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Bridgestone&tireModel=Blizzak+LM-22&partnum=25R7BZLM22&autoMake=Mazda&autoModel=RX8%206-speed&autoYear=2004&autoModClar=

Will post more once they arrive and are tested.

first post...
Just had a set ot Toyos put on tonite... my dealer's last set.
The drive down my street was... interesting to say the least, on 2in of snow with the stock REs... good thing the main roads were just wet at by that time.
So far, I'm feeling good about them. I was hoping to take advantage of Shamblerock's deal down at Miss. Tire, but they were out of rims, and almost out of tires as well...

Had to make a quick trip to Home Depot for some things - nice empty parking lot on the way out... wheeee! :)

Whee..

Vancouver finally snowed... although it was a light fluffing, it was enough to cause havoc for most commuters. At first I was a bit apprehensive of driving in the snow, but I ended up spending a good 3 hours on the road just toyo'ing around town (pun intended).

The Toyo's HT handled great, lots of traction on freshly packed snow...excellent in the slush, and even in areas with ice. The car did manage to fishtail ever so slightly in the parking lots where the snow is really packed, but well within control. Zero problems going up and down hills as long as I maintained a steady pace. Drove mostly around in 2-3 gear.

Definitely MUCH much better than I expected, and surprisingly better than my old Acura EL with all-seasons.

Krakadder, welcome to the cult. Looks like you will fit in nicely. Good luck with the 8.

Sounds like everyone is mainly happy with how the 8 is doing in snow, which is a good thing. I was just wondering if anyone knows of or would be interested in a winter driving course for the 8?
________
Medical marijuana states (http://mmjp.org)

Yeah, for a rear wheel drive car, it works great. Sure it slips a bit on ice. The DSC comes on quite a bit but the car NEVER has gotten out of control. I even do some tests when I'm doing about 80 km; I nail the gas. The car twitches but regains its control.

Even more impressive is how the car works when you turn the DSC off. The car has such a wonderful balance that when you throw the back end out, you can always keep it in check. I've had rear wheel drive cars that had a point of no return in regards to the back end rotating but no matter how far I throw this car sideways, it takes very little effort to bring it back. :)


...so winter driving so far has been fun, but I do miss reving the car to/past 7000rpm.

Got my 8 on Dec. 23. Then the snow came and the minus 35 stuff. As I suppose everybody knows, the OEM Dunlops were frightening. A 180 on a gentle curve at about 25 km/h will attest to that. So I went with 17" Blizzaks, and the difference, as they say, was night and day. These things are great, read the TireRack reviews if you don't believe me. Originally had hideous black steel rims but every time I looked at 'em, I wanted to weep, so went for some 6-spoke gunmetal grey jobs that were on sale for $150 per.

Shamblerock,

Getting back to the burning smell - Rear TIRES!
I can't friggen believe it.
Run the car at high speed for a bit and the rear tires start to stink.

Alignment? Wear on the stock rubber was even.
Strange..... But true. The burning rubber is from the rear tires.

Handbrake Notes - When it is really cold -15C or below - the handbrake does not stay down.
There is no brake drag, just the light stays on. Stupid - I'll adjust a bit looser.

Pirelli 240 snowsport tires???
As I stated - stock 225/45/R18.
Dry/Wet - Fantastic - I'd even say sheer grip is better than the RE040 summers.
SNOW - not so fantastic - light powder and momentum is your friend.

In TO we had a bit of a dumping recently - 130mm (5") This is about the limit for clearance.
Once underway the car is fine - DSC really helps with stupid driving.
DSC off - the car is still easy to control - but in traffic DSC us ON.

What was the most suprising was the difficulty in accelerating - especially from a standstill. The slightest incline will stall this car. Hell, even flat surfaces pose a problem.

So - my recommendation if you drive in the snow regularily - run a -1 size on 17's with a more aggressive winter tread.
The Pirelli's are V rated and more suited for cold weather performance. Combine the dry road specific tread with a fairly fat footprint and you don't get much go.

Stoplight grandprix with a WRX was embarrassing. 4 times we lined up together.
All I could do is watch him leave me.

In terms of straight line - let the traction and DSC do its job. A bit disconcerning as the back end likes to WAG around but if you examine the tire tracks - never really deviates more than a few inches on each side.

Another interesting note while I am rambling - the car has a preference to turn left under acceleration. Why? With a LSD is it just the torque distribution in low traction situations that send more power to the right side?

Burning smell is the tires!

Anyone having problems with first gear engagement in the cold?

In Minnesota we just got 6" of snow on Friday and I left the 8 in my outdoor parking lot at work while a buddy picked me up in his jeep and we went to a college hockey game. After the game went back to the lot to get my car, the car was drifted in. I cleaned the car off, let it warm up for a while and then made my way out of the parking lot.

My yoko's did just fine and I never got hung up and I never needed to cut through some of the piles or drifts. Got out onto the messy, sloppy main drag and the tires did just fine while other spun for a bit.

Only had one problem going home that night. Hit a good pile off the freeway turning onto an ave that wasn't plowed yet. Car bogged down in the deep stuff, but I downshifted and gave her some gas and she chewed through the pile pretty easy. Entire front end was packed with snow, but took it to the car wash the next day and hosed it off.

I was quite impressed with the tires after that night.

Rotator, our cars are identical, really. Everything you described is exactly, i mean exactly, what I have noticed. Even the parking brake matter is identical. I have Michelin Pilots V rated. I wonder how an automatic RX8 is performing in these snowy conditions?

Anyone with an automatic care to share your snow driving winter experiences with us?

Identical??
I have an 8" sub with velocity red fiberglass cover in the passthrough. That's gotta count for something right?

Are your michelin's stock size? Pilot Alpin's?

I must say the RX-8 vs. my awd Talon is night and day.
I would have taken the WRX out in the Talon no problem.

Snow Performance?
I was NEVER worried about not getting up a snow covered hill with the talon. Now the RX I have to ensure that I am not going to have to stop on an incline - or else I would be screwed.
I kinda miss the awd drifting that the talon provided in the snow. Nothing like going down the road at a 45 degree drift angle - full oposite lock for 100's of metres. The talon is such an understeering pig that even with 300+ HP it would take snow, or loose gravel to break the rear loose.

Iteresting about the problems - 1st gear engagement issues too?
As we are driving a mass produced production car - I would hope the problems aren't unique.

RX-8 2004 best selling car in Canada in it's class.

Pirelli 240 snowsport tires???
As I stated - stock 225/45/R18.
Dry/Wet - Fantastic - I'd even say sheer grip is better than the RE040 summers.
SNOW - not so fantastic - light powder and momentum is your friend.

I'll second the dry rating. Agreed, better than the summer tires I replaced, which really surprised me. And no thump-thump-thump flatspotted tires in the cold mornings, lol. Very impressive. You'd never guess you were on snow tires.

On packed snow, they're fantastic. Tons of grip, no problems at all. Fun even.

In slush or loose stuff... not so great. But that might be caused by the wide, stock size, as they tend to "float" rather than dig through to the pavement below. Get narrower 17" SnowSports, and they might do fine.

i doubt the snow tires are better then the summer RE040's..Obviously the compound is softer, but i doubt the sidewall is anywhere near as stiff. I have the Pirrelli Sumitozero?? another high performance winter pirreli, and compared to stock, it feels like a van....

i doubt the snow tires are better then the summer RE040's..Obviously the compound is softer, but i doubt the sidewall is anywhere near as stiff. I have the Pirrelli Sumitozero?? another high performance winter pirreli, and compared to stock, it feels like a van....

In day-to-day ordinary use, I can't tell the difference in sidewall flex - which was my main fear when switching to snows. Sure, take it to an AutoX and you might notice it... but during enthusiastic driving on public roads, they "feel" at least as responsive as the RE040s.

While on the 040s, I always had to watch out for wheelspin when starting out on messy/wet intersections, especially when turning. Even in the dry, the rear would occasionally step out if I hit the throttle too soon in a corner.

The SnowSports shocked me when I put them on. Zero wheelspin... nada... at corners and intersections I drive every day and had grown accustomed to taking very carefully. It's a night & day difference, an entirely different car and driving experience.

On perfectly clean, smooth, dry roads in warm weather, the 040s are fantastic. But I didn't realize how skittish they were in anything less until I put on the SnowSports.

Rotator, I have Michelin Pilot Alpine 225 X 50 X 17 (i beleive this is the right measurement) wi=hich is equal in diameter to the stock tires.

Cool idea with the 8" sub in the passthrough. You have to come to one of the RX8 meets and show us how it looks/sounds.

In a nutshell, the only dissapointing part of the snow tire set up is starting from zero in first on slick/heavy snow. Spins to easy for my liking. Trying to make it a habit to start in 2nd or 3rd in such conditions. The back end just swings out so easily. But once your rolling, I have no complaints.

i hear ya shamblerock, getting the momentum is the hardest part sometimes....a few weeks back i got stuck in my dads Mercedes CLK....the only way i got out was to turn the TSC off, that way i could get some "spinnage"......Also just back to the tire talk, i think the tires are better then the 040's in the wet....as far as hydroplanning, but on ramps.....my snows are completely lacking....which is expected for snows....

Frankly, I find they grip great in the rain and better than the potenzas and there is hardly any noticeably more body roll on or off ramps compared to the potenzas. To be honest, the Pilots seems to get better grip on dry as well and the car is far more predictable and controllable in dry with the winters. Maybe because they are new or something. I'm sure the great handling characteristics of the Pilots will fade away by next year. BTW, the Pilots are substantially quieter too!

Handbrake Notes - When it is really cold -15C or below - the handbrake does not stay down.
There is no brake drag, just the light stays on. Stupid - I'll adjust a bit looser.

Mine was the same in November before I put the car away. I believe is was definitely affected by the cold more than normal cable stretch issues. The dealer adjusted mine but now there is maybe just 2" of travel on the handle. I don't think this is right . . . I am betting the springs on calipers are having problems pulling the cable back because of extra friction in the sheath or something in the cold. I don't like the idea of potentially riding the back brakes all the time, doesn't help the brakes, doesn't help gas mileage and might make the smell of burning tires :-) I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't a TSB released for some sort of problem back there at some point . . .

So - my recommendation if you drive in the snow regularily - run a -1 size on 17's with a more aggressive winter tread.
The Pirelli's are V rated and more suited for cold weather performance. Combine the dry road specific tread with a fairly fat footprint and you don't get much go.

Absolutely, it's too bad you can't go smaller. My old Audi 90 winter car weighs a similar amount to the 8 and I run super skinny 175/65/14 Hakka winter tires on it. When you concentrate all that weight on decent winter tires you get fantastic winter handling. You just can't go hog wild on dry roads as stopping distances take a big hit in particular.

Stoplight grandprix with a WRX was embarrassing. 4 times we lined up together.
All I could do is watch him leave me.

You just wouldn't stand a chance. Even my Outback family cruiser which is a lot piggier and has all of 165HP would leave you behind in a cloud of snow. The AWD traction is awesome, no FWD or RWD car can come close. You can just hammer the gas from a stop light in the snow it is almost like you are driving on bare pavement, everything changes when you come to a corner though. When I step from the 8 into the Outback in summer it's like someone has removed the engine or something, it's all about traction.

Anyone having problems with first gear engagement in the cold?

I think all cars will shift hard and be clunky when it is really cold, I don't know if I would classify this as a problem if it gets better when the car warms up. It takes two men an a boy to move the sifter in my winter car when I start out below -30. What I don't like about the 8 is no synhcro for reverse, my winter car has that. Another car I had would easily match up by just pressing the clutch pedal again, the 8 is more finicky than that to the point that I have had to move forward to get into reverse and the feel when it goes in is rather vague.

Kart Racer -

If you read the messages you will see posts from myself, Shamblerock, and HeelnToe. We all feel that the winter tires outperform the summer in GRIP.

I don't know how you can make the claim - "i doubt the snow tires are better then the summer RE040's". There is nothing to doubt. A fact is a fact. We are all driving the same car.

The hardest problem about tire comparisons is what works well on one car may not be the same on another.

The summer 140 treadwear RE040's would suggest pretty awesome traction - but really they are sheit! Even with the paltry torque on hand in the RX - I could pretend I was a muscle car on most dry - and all wet surfaces. Turn off DSC and you can drift the car on dry roads no problem. With a 225 wide tire and only 150 lb-ft, and a relatively tall 1st gear - you should not be able to do this with a real tire.

I could drive around in the summer drifting around every corner as if the road was coated in dust. With DSC on, I would see the yellow light come on frequently.
It was crazy how often the car would slide around.

Same roads with my relatively cheap Dunlop FM901's on my talon would be drama free.

Contrast this to the grip levels of the Pirelli SNOW tires - remember these are V rated - sidewall is stiff - and the difference is drastic.

Pirelli Winter tires exceed every aspect of the Summer RE040's except dynamic transitions. The tread depth and blocks on the winter tires allow more squirm - this is a fact. Do I care? Really this is only important in autocross - where there are stupid fast transitions.

If the road is dry and not full of salt powder I find it very difficult to spin the tires.
Even wet roads - the car just hooks up. The traction control light rarely comes on.

Add the fact that the WINTER 240's are quieter, they don't follow ruts in the road, and you have a winner.

I have over 18K on the summers, and now 4K on the winters. This is enough time with both sets of tires driving the same roads to come up with a real-world comparison.

There is something to be said at the level of confidence you have going into a corner and not having to worry about the tires loosing grip without warning.

If you want to drive the car like a dirt track speedway racer - the RE040's are your tire of choice.

For me - I can't wait to get new summer rubber on the car to see what it can do.

....the 8 is more finicky than that to the point that I have had to move forward to get into reverse and the feel when it goes in is rather vague.

I have not had that on mine. I find reverse fairly easy all the time. But I have not been out below past - 22C yet, so that cold make a difference.

It comforting to know that your winter car's gears are also stiff in the cold. But the clunking, especially when you shift fast when its cold, it just doesn't seem right. If feels like something is going to bust sometinmes.

It comforting to know that your winter car's gears are also stiff in the cold. But the clunking, especially when you shift fast when its cold, it just doesn't seem right. If feels like something is going to bust sometinmes.

Well you really don't want it clunking at all as bit by bit it will do damage, it really comes down to making those first few shifts very slowly until you have both moved some distance to fully lubricate the transmission and warm it up a bit. I had to be very careful with my 8 on 1-2 shifts when it was cold just before I put it away. I made a conscious effort to pop it out of first, wait a second or two and pull it into second. Synthetic oil in the transmission would probably make a big difference in terms of getting the synchros to do their job faster. I wasn't driving it in winter I and I am not keen on excessive tinkering on a car that has only 10K on it so I didn't do anything . . . I am hoping that the synchro speed and reverse issues will get better as the transmission loosens up a bit with a longer break-in. If reverse doesn't get better I will probably take it in, could simply be an adjustment issue with the shifter linkage if you are not having the same issue.

Actually - stiff gears aren't my concern.
Until the transaxle warms - the fluid will be pretty thick. Shifting isn't a problem. A bit more effort, but I know why.

My biggest problem and concern is nuetral to first. It is hard to put the thing in first gear. Especially when cold. Alsmost as if the synchros aren't functioning.

My biggest problem and concern is nuetral to first. It is hard to put the thing in first gear. Especially when cold. Alsmost as if the synchros aren't functioning.

Well I am assuming this is from a dead stop. There will be more force required than when things are warm but you shouldn't be blocked out and have to fiddle around like when things aren't lined up going into reverse. If you can't get it into first you likely have a problem of some sort and I would complain. My car never had problems going into first but it only saw -10 or -15C before the snow flew and I put it away.

If by chance you are trying to shift into first while moving, yikes, don't do it! That would be very bad for the transmission.

Scoop - Yeah - problems neutral - first from a stop. Can't think what good it will do for me to complain. I don't think that the dealer will do anything until I just can't get the transaxle in gear. I'd like to put some GB syncro-shift in there.

Shamblerock,
Here is a link to some pics of my install. Pass Through Thread with Pics (http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=49280&page=3&pp=15)

[Shamblerock,
Here is a link to some pics of my install. Pass Through Thread with Pics (http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=49280&page=3&pp=15) [/QUOTE]

Rotator, really nice job. Did you do it yourself or get a professional to do it?

Any thought about getting some kind of grill on that so it doesn'r attract outside attention (thieves)? I guess they would figure it our anyway.

Grill on the Speaker??
Yeah - there in lies the problem.

The fibreglass cover was moulded with a 2 peice grill for the JL 8" speaker.
Turns out it was the last model 8W3 and I have clearance issues with the new generation of speaker. The throw of the cone is a lot greater. The new grill is totally different.

I was all set with the metal grill and grill cloth to make it look kind of factory. Then I found out I couldn't use it.

Am I worried about theft? Yes/No. The car is much more valuable than the system. It would suck if I some punk did a smash and grab though.

There are other issues I had with the grill cloth anyway. It wasn't audibly transparent. It would actually rap against the metal grill when playing. So I will have to come up with some way of fastening the grill cloth.

I'll figure something out - possibly source an other JL 8W3 speaker to put in there.
The nice think about a metal grill is protecting the driver from an elbow.

As for help? Box and fiberglass panel at AutoWorks Car Audio on Eastern. They still have the mould for the passthrough panel there. They also did the box. I mounted and wired the amp, and also braced the box internally, and protected the mdf with urethane.

Kandy Koated Designs did the kandy velocity red paint and final prep on the fibreglass.

It took quite a few hours.

I have attached a picture of the box, and the speaker with the metal grill. The grill looks horrible without the cloth. With the cloth - it is almost factory.

Wow a lot work and planning and I know what you mean about the rapping sound. But nice job. I don't think I'm there yet.

Thanks for the details. I'm always interested in stereos.

Am I worried about theft? Yes/No. The car is much more valuable than the system. It would suck if I some punk did a smash and grab though.

Some food for thought . . . I had an Audi that came with an aftermarket removable face CD player. I always removed the face, then one night I came home if Chinese take-out, my hands were full and I didn't remove it. Some punks broke the door lock, scratched the paint, then absolutely shredded my dash and center console. They broke tons of plastic trim, dash switches, climate control system, you name it. The insurance company were a bunch of idiots and it took forever for some guy in the Black Forest to carve me new plastic pieces for the dash. Thousands in damage for a $200 stereo with a DIN mounting bracket that can be removed in 10 seconds with a bent coat hanger, idiots . . . After my poor car was fixed they came back again and broke the door lock, searched the car for a faceplate and left. This all happened in my driveway in normally civilized suburbia. I actually tried to find a used OEM stereo to put back in . . . I personally will never install an aftermarket stereo in a car and I don't understand people who rice up cars with stereo stickers all over the outside, it's like they are begging for people to take their stuff . . . It's not that I have anything against good sounding tunes for the car, it's just the risk factor after being broken into three different times. I would try to make your install as stealthy as possible, never over estimate the intelligence of the common criminal . . .

Yokohama Ice Guards 225/45/18's


By far the Best winter tire I have ever used!!! I have Zero Problems driving in a Montreal snow storm!!

They work just as good in snow as on ice.. My buddy has a G35 Coupe he used to keep it in storage for winter.. After driving with me in a bad snow strom in the RX8 he got his car out of storage purchased the same set of Yoko's but with 245/45/18 for the rear and is loving his G in winter!!

They cost me $1200 Tax In!

I have two points.....

1st.... Rotator...i will race you on the track my 040's compared to your snows...20bucks says your tires are bald after 10min..hehehehe. the fact is they are snow tires, and although they "feel" better, they are way softer, and they prolly spin less, but to say that a snow tire is better in grip then the 040s is pretty crazy.....why not just use those all year round??

2nd...Im not much of a stereo guy at all......its just extra weight and more money to throw at a car. A stereo can be worth 3k now....but in 5 years, its not worth much at all......more bang for your buck by getting some suspension stuff

Kart Racer:

Tires are complex objects. It is common knowledge that winter tires have a compound optimized for temperatures less than 8C.
So you can bring your RE040's to that track at -20C, and I will embarrass you.
Grip has more to do than just being soft or hard.
About the snow tires - all you are doing is conjuring opinions based on a limited amount of knowledge. Put 4 snows on your car - or borrow one with 4 snows and see what we are talking about. Limit the snows to V rated performance though for a fair comparison.

As for extra weight and money of a system? It's all about personal preference. What ever you enjoy. The added 20 or so pounds of audio gear isn't a big deal for me. I'm most likely 20 lbs lighter than most anyway. I don't have the jack, or the tow hooks in the car - they are close to 10lbs right there.

And bringing anything to do with future value of components when discussing cars is pointless. They are sink holes. Unless you have some esoteric automobile you will never get anything back.

You spend money on what you feel is important. A good audio system for me turns a 500km straight hwy boring drive into something much more tolerable.

ExtensiveRX8 - Thanks for the tips on the Yoko's - how are they in the dry/wet? Noise, grip, sidewall flex?

just to add, i agree with you about the snow tires.....im sure they are great considering there snows.....I also have 4 snows on my car, the Pirreli Sottozero's, and although they have the softness to grip, they do not have the compound nor the sidewall to rival any other dry sport tire. Ive raced karts, and formula cars for about 8 years, and another racing buddy had my car for a day, about a month back, we both agreed, that at least on my tires, the car is way to sketchy sometimes....

Kart Racer

Sorry - I forgot you had the Sottozero's. All I can say is that my experience with the Pirelli 240's are that they are more predictable than the RE040's in the dry. I don't know how the Sottozero's compare to the 240's. I had winter 210's on my talon and know people that have won spring autocross with those tires.
There was something about the RE040's that made the asphalt appear greasy.

On a sidenote - I'll share an experience with winter 210's on my talon in 25C weather. SCARY. absolute lack of grip, and very soft sidewalls at that temperature. Soft isn't necessarily better.

Really - we could argue back and forth. I will maintain that there is less rear wheel spin when accelerating, and the DSC rarely kicks in while cornering. I am happy with the cold weather performance of the 240's - not necessarily the snow performance.

Until you go to a track with both sets on the same day, you really aren't going to know for sure which is "faster".

Possibly the RE040's with ample time to get warm will beat the Snows.
But on the street - cold tires are the norm, and in this respect the snows have the RE040's beat in any cold temperature.

Sketchy is not a word that bodes well for confidence. This is why for summer I will switch to either Michelin PS2 or something.

As for racing experience - you have me beat - unless Gran Turismo counts! ;)

What would be interesting is to see how the "SNOW" tires when the tread is at 4/32 or so compare to the "Summer" at -10C. This tread depth will negate any squirm you may mistake for sidewall flex. I really don't see how a V rated 40, or 45 series tire will have a vastly different sidewall compliance whether they are snow or not. There isn't much sidewall to roll.

Kart, are your Sotto's V rated? Because I seriously beleive that my Pilots have about as much roll as the RE 040's. From my limited, experience, I would have to say that I probably find the Michelins to be more controllable and predicatable than the stock tires at this early stage in their life. But then again I have no "track experience" and I don't think I push my car to the limits you probably do or have the experience you do to truly undrerstand the car/tires' limits. Having said that and despite your years of track experience, I'll still kick your ass anytime/anyplace! :D Just Kidding!

:p I should watch what I say to you, even jokingly, because I need that favour from you! Hope school is going fine.

Actually - stiff gears aren't my concern.
Until the transaxle warms - the fluid will be pretty thick. Shifting isn't a problem. A bit more effort, but I know why.

My biggest problem and concern is nuetral to first. It is hard to put the thing in first gear. Especially when cold. Alsmost as if the synchros aren't functioning.
You guys should try synthetic - I switched my RX-8 over to Redline (MT90 in the transmission, 75W90 in differential) before it's first winter, and the gearbox is much easier to shift when it's stone cold at sub-freezing temperatures.

Regards,
Gordon

Rotator, and Shamblerock, i will have to get a ride sometime in your car before the summer comes....im interested. As far as i know the Sottozeros are V rated.....but the 55 series and lack of reinforced sidewall dont give a great feeling, especially when the suspension loads up..... Im not too much of a fan on the 040's either...they wear fast, and arent the greatest..... Let us know about the PS2's ive heard good things about them!!

Kart Racer - 55 series?? What size are they? 235/55/R17?
They are US specific tires that may have more of a snow orientation. Who knows?

How can we compare tires if they aren't the same size?
The RE040's are stock 225/45/R18 as are the Pirrelli's.
I think this is really the only fair comparison.
Throw in your Sottozeros in a -1, or -2 size and the comparison is unfair.

As for the summer vs winter debate - YES a summer tire should be MUCH better than a winter tire.

My argument is specific to the RE040's against the Pirellis in cold weather.

Biggest problem I find now that we have had a few storms is the amount of friggin' salt on the road. We need a good rain to wash this stuff off. I find the roads slippery with all that salt.

Gord: I heard of this before. How much does it cost to change the tranny oil as you suggest? Is it worth getting a braided clutch line while I'm there? Any idea on cost?

Kart: Hopefully we'll have a chance to hook up at one of these RX8 meets and
it you can try my car out to see how the tires grip.

Rotator: Next time we have one of these meets (usually up @ 400 & 7 or in Mississauga), you should come out and join us. I don't think you came to one of these before, have you?

Shamblerock - Went to one back in July or August? Dave and Busters?
I was one of the few Red cars without a spoiler.

my tires are 225/55/17 which closely matches the circumferance of the stock setup......what size are yours rotator?

Rotator, I attended one in August and I also have a VR 8 without a spoiler (not for too long - ordered oneon the weekend). I've been to 3 or 4 meets since then. Hopefully we'll catch you at the next one.

Kart Racer -
Pirelli's website claims 235/55/R17. They would be larger than stock - 476 RPK -
Stock circumfronce would be 225/50/R17 - 500 RPK
Mine are stock 225/45/R18 - 500 RPK
You sure about 225/55/R17? This would be 483 RPK
RPK - revolutions per KM.

I would think that you wouldn't want to change the size more than 5% either way.

nope positive, 225/55/17.....they are from gyro mazda, its just around the corner from my house. Are you running on 18's in the winter??? in that case, no wonder you love the snows!!

my tires are 225/55/17 which closely matches the circumferance of the stock setup
Nope, that size is taller than the OEM size - 215/55-17 is closer, but still slightly taller diameter than stock. That's why many of us run the 215/55-17 size, or alternatively 225/50-17.

Check it out yourself with the Miata.net Tire Size Calculator (http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html), or look on a tire manufacturer's detailed spec sheets for the actual diameters.

From the Miata.net tire calc, nominal diameter:
225/45-18: 26.0 inches
215/55-17: 26.3
225/50-17: 25.9
225/55-17: 26.7

The 225/55-17 is larger by 3%, and of those 4 sizes is the largest diameter.

Regards,
Gordon

I got the 18" 225 45 on my stock wheels...

They are Bridgestone blizzaks LM22 V rated tires... Yes finally tested them out today...

Not bad.. well ofcourse this morning the traffic was slow so can't really test them out the way it should be tested.... but getting up slight hills and downs are not a big factor..

will test them out more when I go home..

overall its pretty good..

mzpeed

I had lm22s on an anemic VW GTI 1.8T (250hp/270tq) and I was grossly disappointed in its performance considering the cost. I have since used Pirellis and Dunlops with better results.

;) You gotta love snow in Toronto...

sorry, stupid me, i just had a look at my car, they are 215/55/17s. i dont know why i thought otherwise....i think im having memory relapses due to the scratches in the rear bumper

Kart Racer,

There lies your problems - 215 wide, and 55 series will be quite a bit different than 225 wide, and 45 series - regardless of rubber compound.
225/55/R17 would have your speedo be out by 4%.

So I will agree that YOUR winter tires are not as good as the RE040's :D

That being said - the 225 width doesn't provide very good initial traction in the snow. A slight incline will leave me motionless. I have to be careful with hills and stop signs or lights.

This isn't a problem in toronto though as it is mainly flat, and the roads are snow covered for less that 1% of my winter driving.

I haven't been in the forum in a while so here is my winter tire update. I have 17" Yokohama's V901 with American Racing Steel Rims. So far they have been excellent. I was a little concerned about driving another RWD vehicle (had some bad experiences with a Mustang) I have been really impressed at how the car corrects itself immediately and you feel totally confident and in control. As for snow... BRING IT ON :)

you can always override the self correcting if you choose too.

I went with a set of Pirelli SnowSport 240s on the factory 18 inch rims. Budgetary limitations prevented dedicated rims. So far, they've been everything that the OEM Bridgestones are not!

Looks like I never posted in here... I'm using a set of Dunlop Wintersport M3's (with 17 inch wheels). They have terrific grip in the snow, and kept both me and my girlfriend alive through a nasty ice storm a month or so back. And they offer a level of grip on dry and wet roads that seems in every way superior to what the factory tires offered. Even after a few thousand hard-driven miles they're showing no signs of wear whatsoever. Amazing tires.

Hankook W300 Ice Bear 225/50R17 V rated on alloy rims. Purchased from TireTrends.
So far I'm impressed with these tires. On snow or slush they have good grip and they are quiet in the dry. Grip on ice is marginal. I don't think that you can get a better tire for the money.