Because too many people will just walk into the Infiniti dealership, and buy a G35 or G35 coupe for less money.

Am I right, or no?

Of course the price of the RX-8 will determine how many people can or will purchace the car. I don't totally agree with your statement though that price gouging will force converts to another make, at least it wouldn't for me. I would think most people would decide which car is right for them by research and test drives. Then after they decide which one they want, they shop around for a dealer that will give them the most for their money. At least that's what I would do.

It is corporate Mazda's responsiblity to come up with a MSRP that is competitive, fair, and profitable for them. That is what will probably determine the RX-8's sucess between it and other makes. Dealers who price gouge are preying on the lazy and in the long run are only hurting themselves. Price gougeing will probably only make people shop around between dealers.

That is, of course, unless all of the dealers are price gouging and then your original statement is correct. That would be similar to the original release of the Acura NSX and to a lesser extent, the Honda S2000. People will just buy other stuff and the greed and stupidity of the dealers will just be hurting their manufacturer.

Mazda will come up with an competative MSRP, possible around $26,000. Whatever the dealers do with that price is up to them but a smart shopper would look for better deals (lower prices).
About the S2000, in my opion i think that car is heavily overpriced, even the MSRP is high.

Why do you idiots keep saying, if I don't like it, I'll just buy the G35 coupe, and so will everyone else? That is completely retarded. Does the G35 come with a rotary engine? NO. Does the G35c come with suicide doors? NO. Is it ugly? YES. I don't understand that mentality, if for some small reason Mazda angers me, I will automatically go and buy an ugly car, with an ugly cheap interior, with no rotary engine, and hard to reach back seats. Stop trolling Hercules

Originally posted by TheLaw
Why do you idiots keep saying, if I don't like it, I'll just buy the G35 coupe, and so will everyone else? That is completely retarded. Does the G35 come with a rotary engine? NO. Does the G35c come with suicide doors? NO. Is it ugly? YES. I don't understand that mentality, if for some small reason Mazda angers me, I will automatically go and buy an ugly car, with an ugly cheap interior, with no rotary engine, and hard to reach back seats. Stop trolling Hercules
I'm just playing devil's advocate. I wouldn't buy the G35 anyways, I've already driven it and I just don't dig it.

You guy can't be serious...the G35 Coupe...ugly??.....absolutely LMAO......WTF are you smokin man...settle down and get a grip.

Originally posted by natev
You guy can't be serious...the G35 Coupe...ugly??.....absolutely LMAO......WTF are you smokin man...settle down and get a grip.
Everybody is entitled to their opinions. I don't dig the G35 myself. The interior is way too cheap, I don't expect any different on the Coupe. However, the Mazda Millenia I currently own has a very nice interior compared to most Japanese cars, which is a nice thing to look forward to when the Mazda guys are saying that the RX-8 and future models will have even better materials in them.

I have a 2000 Millenia S Millenium Edition....and I "DO" agree that the fit and finish in the Milly are better than the G35 Sedan..BUT..severely lacking in some important "optional" equipment areas....you ...nor I can assume that the Coupe will be the same as the Sedan....NNA has admitted some of the flaws with the current Sedan interior (leather first and foremost) and are improving them in the Coupe which will not even begin to be produced until September 2nd. All you have seen for the RX is a couple Car mag articles....that's it. You won't know til you go look at it.....as for me, if I am soooo unimpressed with the Coupe's interior that I decide against getting it, I'll stroll over to Mazda (where my buddy is a manager) and grab the RX-8....both are beauties......this previous kid who said the G Coupe is ugly is a complete jackass though IMO.:confused: :D

LMAO Natev, that you come to a Mazda message board and sing the praises of Nissan. LMAOROTF, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Whatever crack you smoked, pass it along, don't hog. Anyone who thinks beauty is objective is clearly insane.

I own a Mazda Millenia you stupid **** "The Law??" and was already on the list for the RX as of April. Go find something something better to do with your time then post senseless dribble that I have read from you here. You sound like your 18 years old for christs sake.

ps.. If beauty is objetive - which it certainly is, then you should said: ugly IMO, ugly IMO, ugly IMO. You son, are not even close to the final word on automotive styling and can't even admit that there just might be the possibility of (get this) 2 very attractive sports cars being launched in the next year. That is one hell of great sig BTW....LMAO...zoom zoomie!!. :D

Awright, back to your corners and read the forum rules again, guys. Disagreement is fine, but name-calling will get you edited or worse. Consider yourselves warned.

sorry to fan the flames but i gotta say put me in the jackass club for i too think the g35c is not all that attractive. it does however appeal to me more than the 350z. i just hope my rx-8 will keep me ahead of both of those cars because i certainly don't want to look at either from the back again. imight steer right off the road.
but thats just one man's opinion. everyone is entilted and certainly shouldn't draw fire for expressing one. :cool:

Zoom44… you trying to stimulate a little lively conversation in here??? :D

Natev at least my city doesn't have a baseball team with one of the highest combined salaries, yet is going to lose the wild card spot to the Angels, which last I checked can't fill a stadium. Typical Boston Irish, incapable of playing baseball, incapable speaking without cussing, and incapable of realizing that they are in a Mazda forum singing praises for a Nissan. By the way I'm 23, and in law school. I went to Boston University, I think I saw you from dorm room, you were the homeless guy with the laptop sitting next to the Mazda Millenia, that you occcasionally peed on and called yours. Right on Comm Ave. Glad you finally got an internet connection.

P.S. objective is spelled o-b-j-e-c-t-i-v-e. Not objetive, which it certainly isn't, and it certainly isn't objective either. For instance your wife, who many might find obese, would be ugly to most, whereas she is pretty to you. Now do you see how it is not objective?

ehh...alot of chaos going on in this thread.

We all have our opinions! Don't turn this forum into a battleground, just respect eachothers opinions. It doesn't help this forum look good if you guys keep bad mouthing eachother.

I had been reading this thread finding it amusing how people take what cars they like and drive so seriously and personally. It started out as a debatable topic with professional responses. Somehow it digressed into juvenile name calling and picking on each other’s favorite vehicles. I was hoping we had all passed middle school if we were in the market for this car. Now we have threats of physical violence!:confused: Where did that come from?

Let's shake ourselves guys and try to return to the maturity and decorum that has made this forum so enjoyable up until this point. It's not very becoming to go into a mouth foaming rage everytime someone types something you disagree with. The more you do that, the less mature and educated you appear.

Let's stick to discussing and anticipating the great car that we are all excited about.:) In the meantime, it wouldn't be a bad idea for the moderators to clean some of this crap up. We don't want to start a trend.

Your'e right..I deleted my post....I didn't want to scare lil MrLaw....I will not stoop to his immature level as we all know he drives a what??..oh yeah a Nissan....Ha..a SENTRA at that LMAO!!!......TheLaw, open up your PM though so we can talk privately about your issues.

well that was fun, though completely uneducational
:rolleyes:

Natev,

Chill out man. I actually worked at a law school for year in thier IT department. You'd be suprised what lawyers drive. I saw plenty of nissans driven by students and Professors. Heck some of the lawyers don't even have CARS!!!!! Here is a life lesson for you, you can't judge a persons true wealth by the Car they drive. Remember a Car is a depriciating assett(Money Pit) that just gets you from point A to B. Sometimes people just want to save money toward more import things like a house or stock investments. There are many 7 figure guys who pinch pennies when it comes to thier car.

Just because this a anonymous forum doesn't mean you have to be so rude...


The post by Natev was deleted, so ignore

Did you even read this string of posts and see how insulting this Law character has been?? He was the one insulting me to begin with. Then he says he's 23, in Law School but his profile says he's a lawyer....this kid is just a bunch of BS....he's a complete and utter hypocrite.

I have to agree with NateV on this one:

TheLaw, you're hitting below the belt purposely to aggravate Nate. If you really are 23 show some etiquette and quit it.

I am however opposed to NateV telling us what IS and ISN'T a beautiful car, so leave room for other peoples opinions, nate.


:as much as I enjoy flaming as an entertainment, its ultimately a forum cancer, both of you please work it out yourselves to find some middle ground here :

Sir, please go read this thread again before you accuse ME. I already stated that both cars are gorgeous, I also have stated that I had an RX on pre-order as far back as April....I just decided to go with the G Coupe instead...I am still very interested to see the RX when it comes out (6 months to a year from now). I am the one trying to eduacate this young lil guy (The Law) that they are both fine machines and he should not go around flying off the handle as he seems to do quite often. I'd like to see him get thrown out of this forum. Go read search and read all his posts and you'll see how narrow minded he really is...also, read this thread again and you'll understand my point very very clearly. I have no time for imaturity such as he displays on a daily basis. he is now on my ignore list so "Law" don't reply.

Infinti dealers are trying to "price Gouge" for the Coupe and the fact that it is perfectly legal for them to do so. I will share some scenarios as it may help a few prospective RX buyers that may encounter the same "dealership tactics". Let me know if this is of interest to anyone here (except Law) and I will elaborate as best I can.

Natev,

It's always ME, ME, ME. You are so self centered. I don't want to hear any more LiP from you, you are wrong today any you will be wrong tomorrow.


:p ok now I am just being a obvious troll, oh well my break time at the massage parlor is almost done I hope I don't have to do another "Happy ending" or "Full body massage"

zoom zoom i was hoping to make a point which seeemed to go unoticed except by you. thanks. everybody calm down there is no need for name calling. sheesh :o

Are there moderators in this forum? On most of the boards I visit "TheLaw" would be shown to the door.

I would definitely have to agree...showh him the door.

Well anyways, for the intelligent non-bashing folks out there:

If the RX is your choice - get on a list and put down $$ and get "@ MSRP" in writing from your dealer or salesperson. Some scumbag Infiniti dealerships are really screwing people on the G35 Coupe and it is a shame. There is only going to be about 1200 6 Speed Manual Coupes produced for the first year. There will however be about 12,000 Autos made in the same period. Some dealers have recognized this fact and are currently tacking on insane mark-ups. $1000-$5000 OVER MSRP is what I have been hearing (Got mine in writing @MSRP). Hopefully, Mazda won't make this same mistake (for the average consumer) and have a screwed up 10:1 M6 to A5 ratio such as Infiniti did with their "marketing polls". Who would want an Auto (if you can possibly drive a manual) Sports car anyways??

i have a bad left knee which when it acts up causes painwhich is aggravated by clutch work. so i have considered an automatic. then i decided i was insane, after all whats a little pain and its only once in a while :cool:

I want a manual, too, but don't forget that there are people with handicaps who *can't* easily use a manual but can work an automatic. One person posted on here a few weeks back that the RX-8 would be great because it'd be much easier for him to get his wheelchair in and out, but of course he needed an automatic transmission car.

I don't want to be seen as the bad guy, but before Natev erased his post where he called me a "f--k" and said I was a child, and how he owned a Millenia, and now on top of this a G35c, this makes him more of a loyal Mazda follower than me, and his opinion on beauty is better than mine. Oh yes, I also am high because I don't like the looks of the coupe. Far be it for me to condemn someone who
A. purchases a vehicle he has not seen and is not yet in production

B. repeatedly goes on a Mazda forum and states that his Nissan product is beautiful, and anyone who thinks it is ugly is "smoking something".

C. Comes from Boston, cannot spell English, and has a baseball team with a 100 million dollar plus payroll that won't see the playoffs this year.

I am a law student, I admit to lying/bragging, and stating that I was a lawyer, but I legally am allowed as a student to assist lawyers on cases. Natev, by the way the correct spelling is native, not natev. You must be one of those hillbilly millionaires who can't read but is worth millions and can afford a stable of luxury cars, including one not out yet for MSRP. Guess who's lying now folks?

well you could start not being the bad guy buy staying on topic instead of posting another rant about nate v.

Zoom44 - yeah, that would help, but would also require self-control and class.

Zoom, stop provoking him. I've been ready to whack this thread and ban all day, but it seems to keep getting back on a valid topic.

One more turn for the worse and the thread is gone.
One more poke at anyone to incite flamage and you're gone for 30 days. This goes for everyone here.

Woha! My sanity keeps telling me to leave this alone... but I'm stupid, so here goes!

Come on... back on topic.

We've not got an MSRP for the car anywhere... but I recall the S2000 situation in the UK... I almost bought one but the prices went up over the first 9 months...

Does anyone know what the availability will be like, becasue with the S2000 it was poor, leading to high prices... I can't afford for it to be more than £25-30K and I'd hope to get a loaded one under 30... I planned to wait perhaps 6 months for the bugs to get worked out, but if it's gonna be 35 after 6 months then I'm in trouble.

There was a point where second hand S2000's were going for more than the purchase price!

From what I've heard, initial availability will be low, as in each dealer getting no more than 3 or so. As you say, simple supply and demand will have the dealers upping price above MSRP, which would really be a shame. On the other hand, maybe Mazda will surprise us with the supply...

I keep on hearing the same thing about the low supply from my dealer, but for the life of me I cannot figure out why Mazda is not going to pump these things out. It’s in their best interest to do so.

I would assume if the Supply from Mazda is initially low then you can certainly expect some sort of action from the Mazda dealerships.....it's just the simple economic fact of "supply and demand"...it is a shame but dealerships are individual franchises so therefore Mazda (nor Infifniti) can force them to sell at MSRP....hence "Manufacturer SUGGESTED Retail Price"....it only a suggestion to keep all dealer in the same ballpark....the RX-8, in some trims (6M?) and in some areas will have a nice "MSRP add-on". Too bad.

:mad: :mad: :p

Originally posted by natev
...it is a shame but dealerships are individual franchises so therefore Mazda (nor Infifniti) can force them to sell at MSRP....hence "Manufacturer SUGGESTED Retail Price"....it only a suggestion to keep all dealer in the same ballpark....the RX-8, in some trims (6M?) and in some areas will have a nice "MSRP add-on". Too bad.


You're right about not being able to force them, but it's alot more than a shame...
As an averagely tolerant consumer I strongly lobby against selling above MSRP. The manufacturer who sets a market RETAIL value of the car has already done so <<taking the dealerships need for profit into account>>, thus the dealer that takes MSRP and THEN raises prices is Mucking you over, blatantly.

Natev, you forget fact and are too easy on dealerships, but remember that the MSRP, though suggested, is often attained with more research than the prices set by dealerships.

This may sound cynnical, but the dealer PROVES his ineptitude by raising the prices: cause other then we RX-8-zealots here (no offense to anyone :D), in raising prices the conservative buyer (BIG chunk in the car market) will go elsewhere.

My point? I have more faith in the retailers assessment than in the dealers. So when a dealer tried to sell me an MP3 at 4k above MSRP (4 FOUR THOUSAND DOLLARS!!!) , I was outraged, I test drove one of his cars, scratched it, and left the Bahs-tud :mad:

Unless you've got plenty of cash just sittin and collecting dust, don't put yourself through that, and AND DON'T JUST BRUSH IT OFF WITH "THAT'S A SHAME"!

BTW: Many of you have now gotten a deposit on the RX-8 at MSRP, well it may interest you to know that my dealer told me I got the last one. Sceptical, I had a friend call him and ask if he could set deposit for one: the dealer said he would order it for him (commitement? the exact same any of us have made with our deposits ie: conditional upon test drive). :eek:
Any one of us can lobby at ANY dealership for MSRP, there is consensus on many of the dealerships (at least, in Montreal).
Please forgive me if I sound touchy on this, but I'm only looking out for the best interest of the consumer, YOU HAVE ROOM FOR NEG. !!!

thanks for your time
Probably-Ralph-Nater-In-Some-Past-Life

whoa - chill out - I am pissed off, but I am getting my 6 spd Sport Coupe at MSRP (maybe a couple hundred $$ below)...I am actually very pissed off that some dealers are trying to do this and what you need to do is take action. When you find a dealer that is "marking up", wipe them out....protest, picket - whatever. Just be sure that they, you and everyone else you come in contact with gets wind of what dealership A is doing....before long when dealership B is selling at MSRP or below....everyone will flood to them and force dealer A to come back to effing reality....case in point, I got an email with pre-order info from Lisle Infinti in Illinois, they got 28 Coupes in their first allotment....4 6 Speed Manual.....they currently have 16 "unclaimed" ones.....guess how many Auto's.....16. I highly doubt anyone will ever pay over MSRP for an Auto, but watch when the poor unsuspecting average Joe walks in and asks to "order" a 6 speed....can we say rape....Saw one ad for $5000 over sticker for M6 (6 speed). Hopefully this won't happen to the RX-8 and they'll have plenty of BOTH trannys available......I know if it was me, and I didn't have a pre-Vin order # already from Infinti and I wanted a Manual, I be running to my nearest Mazda dealer to get in line for one. Good luck to you all.

A point no one has yet brought up- currently, dealerships are having a great deal of trouble moving cars- and the problem doesn't look like it's going to let up any time soon.

I work for an "auto superstore" and we just sold one of our Nissan dealerships because we didn't want to lose any more money- and that was WITH all the pre-ordered 350z's.

IF the market doesn't get better soon, and it doesn't look like it will anytime in the next 6 months, Mazda dealers would be pretty dumb to try and sell ANYTHING much over MSRP, because certainly no one else will be. Dealers are going to be fighting each other to sell to customers even more than they already are.

Yes, there is going to be a demand for the RX-8, I would expect- but there's also going to be some major competition for consumer's business in the next year.

Feel free to contradict me, too- I may be wrong on this- but from everything I've seen recently, I think I'm not.

PS- I just realized that I sounded like I thought it was a BAD thing that cars are so cheap- didn't mean that at all! Sorry! Brain not engaging or something! I am *praying* the RX-8 isn't marked up so much I can't afford it!

Don't be afraid... we like a buyers market...

Mazda would do well to put a small markup on this car, sell as many as they can because if they can prove that the renesis is good, they'll be able to use this platform for other cars... the Renesis costs LESS than a standard V6 BTW.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with dealer's marking cars up over MSRP. If there are 10,000 cars delivered in a year and 20,000 people want them at the MSRP price, how are the dealers supposed to decide who gets them? Marking up the price so the demand drops to about 10,000 buyers is one way.

If you don't want to pay over MSRP, there are lots of ways to avoid it. If you want the car bad enough to pay over MSRP, enjoy the car! There's no way I'd pay over MSRP for an RX-8, but if a new RX-7 comes out in a few years, I'd certainly consider paying a few grand over MSRP. I WANT that car, even though I don't know anything about it!

Let the market set the price. Any other solution would cause more problems than benefits.

Well... Car manufacturers can help, after all if they sell twice as many cars and have half the profit on each, then they don't loose... but their popularity goes up... especially if they do that on a car so cool as this!

They can sell lesser models like family saloons off the back of it....

It's true that if they made more cars they could avoid the price gouging, but how should they do that? Let's say they are ready to have the first 500 hit dealer lots on March 1. They could avoid the price gouging scene by not letting those first 500 leave the factory for a month so they've got a few thousand to hit stores in April or May. Would you rather they delay? I sure wouldn't!

There's always a balance between making so many of a product that you can't sell them all (Aztec) and making so few that the demand outstrips the supply (S2000). Both are bad, but for the manufacturer the first is much worse than the second. The ideal situation is for a product to be just a tiny bit short of the demand. Then there's also the timing issue. You can't immediately meet the full demand for a car. If the car is desireable, it's not possible to fully meet that demand in the first day/week/month. That's why price gouging goes down dramatically after a few weeks or months.

If Mazda gets the car right, the demand simply *will* be greater than the supply. If that happens, Mazda has absolutely no power over what the dealers do about the situation. Customers that don't want to pay the markups have tons of options to avoid it. There are always dealers that won't charge over MSRP, but they usually are sold out for a long time in advance. Get on the list. Or, if you've got to have it RIGHT NOW!, get ready to pay over MSRP. I'd rather just wait a while and let things settle down. I don't care if I have to wait an extra few months.

Only you can determine the price you're willing to pay for the car. If you don't want to pay what the dealers are charging, the simple solution is...don't.

First of all, price gouging won't last forever. It never does. It's called supply and demand. Demand outstrips supply, price goes up. When that demand weakens, price goes down. If you want to picket a dealership and look like an idiot, by all means do so. Most dealerships are on crowded avenues and freeway exits, so be prepared to be laughed at by a lot of passing drivers.

The solution is to just wait. And wait. I personally would never buy a car at MSRP, considering that even at INVOICE, the dealer still makes a profit, because of factory incentives. Your goal is to be able to bargain down below that price. If you consider buying a car at MSRP worth patting yourself on the back, then no amount of picketing will get what you truly want, which is a good deal on a car.

Take into account that the RX-8 isn't supposed to be a huge profit maker for Mazda. It's what's known as a halo car. It is sporty, and people who can't afford it, will buy other Mazdas thinking their buying into sportyness as well. That's why the corvette is a chevy and not a cadillac. So they're not going to just make as many as they deem will sell. They WANT it to be rare and limited, so that it is seen as a valuable commodity.

Mazda will probably not make a profit on this car for years to come, if not ever. It is a unique platform, using a unique engine. The engine is always the most expensive part of the vehicle, and since it's a small production engine, it's going to cost a lot. This is totally a "halo" car.

Originally posted by TheLaw
Anyone who thinks beauty is objective is clearly insane.

That quote is Very wrong!

Chill guys..

Originally posted by TheLaw
Take into account that the RX-8 isn't supposed to be a huge profit maker for Mazda. It's what's known as a halo car. It is sporty, and people who can't afford it, will buy other Mazdas thinking their buying into sportyness as well. That's why the corvette is a chevy and not a cadillac. So they're not going to just make as many as they deem will sell. They WANT it to be rare and limited, so that it is seen as a valuable commodity.

Mazda will probably not make a profit on this car for years to come, if not ever. It is a unique platform, using a unique engine. The engine is always the most expensive part of the vehicle, and since it's a small production engine, it's going to cost a lot. This is totally a "halo" car.
I remember reading something about Mazda making this a car 'for the masses.' That's why the RX-8 will become their flagship car. I remember that the Mazda folks wanted this car to be a big seller and will market it towards families and such that need a useable back seat. The RX-7 will be more of the 'halo' car that you mentioned I think...

But I might be wrong :)

Always giving me hope, Hercules. Like you said, hopefully they will go through with that idea and mass produce the RX-8. You would think that they want to beat their competitors by offering the public a good amount of a beautiful car. Who knows ? But let's keep that hope alive ! 'laughs'