G35 Coupe (http://www.infiniti.com/ms/future/g35c/g35c_flash_frame.html)

Has any one seen this, very nice looking car and very powerful.

It doesn't have suicide doors or a rotary but a nice job by nissan if they can pull it off.

thats the infinity slightly less powerful version of nissan's 350z

It certainly is a nice-looking car and sharing the same basic platform and drivetrain with the 350Z means it should be an impressive car. I could see quite a few people cross-shopping it with the RX-8.

It's a bit more upscale though, more of a BMW 330 fighter. It's also a very large car, so I doubt it will have the same nimble feel as an RX-8.

If Nissan makes the G35c too much like the 350Z, then it would probably be more of detriment toward Z sales. After all, you're getting near-Z-like performance, plus you get some added practicality. That's why I think Nissan should make a clear distinction between the 2; make the G35c cushy and make the 350Z more raw.

I wouldn't say the G35c will be an RX-8 Killer, but it will be an alternative. They both have things going for them. The RX-8 will be lighter and more nimble, but the G35c will have more ponnies and be more luxurious. I think the RX-8 will probably have roomier back seats since the G35c is more of a 2+2. We will see wont we?

Very inteligent responses, I am comming from from a 97 BMW 528I. I still want room and luxury but I want something very nimble with handling and speed close to or better than my current ride for under $30K. I will keep dreaming :(

Did infiniti release a manual transmission for the g35.. or do they plan to?

I don't believe they have released a manual transmission, but they should, their automatic transmission has that tiptronic gear shifting technology though.

The G35 is such a crapcar. I went and drove it when it came out and was very very dissapointed. The interior is shabby even by Sentra standards. I would feel extremely uncomfortable paying $30k for that thing when I could go to Acura and pay the same for the far superior TL Type S. The thing doesn't even feel sporty. It just feels like a big awkwardly quick bubble of bad quality. The RX-8 is in a totally different world.

DC - I competely disagree. I *own* a Sentra (which my wife's pretty happy with), and the interior on the G35 leathers is very nice and very roomy. As far as teh TL type S - no standard transmission, which Infiniti will offer this fall, and it *does* handle pretty nicely, with good zip. The G35 is certainly an RX-8 alternative for me.

The Sentra is not a spare by any means. I wasn't saying that. The Sentra is greatness for its class. Especially now with the SE-R being brought back. But The G35 is NOT on par with the TL Type S. Greatness can not be measured solely by transmission choice. Some people enjoy autos. You really need to drive both cars before forming this opinion. Sure what I am saying IS subjective, but everyone I know that has driven both agrees with me completely. The G35 is just wrong.

It's not a sports car if you can't row your own gears. I *won't* buy a G35 until it has a manual, and then I'd make sure I got the sports package for the tighter handling. I'll take a look at the TL type S, of course, but everything I've read says that the TL has softer suspension and less crisp handling than the G35 sport. I'm sure it's a nice car, but I won't spend $30k on a "sports car" that doesn't even have a manual *available*. The TL is also a front-wheel drive car, as opposed to a rear-wheel drive like God intended sports cars to be.


Sure what I am saying IS subjective, but everyone I know that has driven both agrees with me completely.


Apparently, you haven't read the latest road-and-track sedan shootout, where it scored worse in acceleration, skidpad, slalom, and braking than the G35. It ended up 6th in a class of 11, behind the Audi, Saab, Lexus, BMW, and Infiniti, in order. The BMW 330i topped the comparison if you ignored price, with the Infiniti on top if you looked at price.

Now, this is an automotive rag, so grain of salt and all, but I find it hard to believe that a front-wheel drive auto transmission car will be better than the Infiniti once the G35 gets the 6-speed manual.

Of course, I'd still rather have the RX-8, depending on how much spare there actually *is* in the back, since it will almost certainly handle tighter. In addition, the Infinifi's gas mileage is pretty atrocious. What kind of mileage can we expect from the RX-8, since the Renesis supposedly gets better mileage?The 1995 RX-7 got 17/25 according to the EPA... Say, 19/28?

This whole debate is so wheels off. Of course the G35 might be more enjoyable ONCE IT GETS the 6 spd. Thats like saying yeah, my 92 Tercel is better than a Vette. Once I sell it and buy a Porche GT2. You are so fired dude. Clock out and go home. Why don't we just stick to what we all know and are here to talk about, the RX8 in case you forgot.

I'm fried? I quoted facts that the *current* G35 with the automatic out accelerates, slaloms, skidpads, and brakes the TL type S, before it even has the 6-speed. It is somewhat less luxurious, and I would imagine that the Acura is also more reliable. You're make strawman comparisons between vettes, tercels, and porches, not me.

Yeah, I'm the one that's fried. Sure, if the name-calling makes you feel better, have fun.You'll note that *I* actually did include RX-8 relevant content in my last post, and wasn't the one who decided to use this thread to spread flameage about the G35 in the first place.

Calm down everyone. We all have our opinions, it's just that some people dont usually agree but its not something to really fight over because they are cars. in my opinion the G35 is a great car, the G35 Coupe that is comming out is also nice, it shares its design with the not so good looking 350Z but with the Infiniti looks and tag it looks alittle better.

Infiniti has changed its image lately, they are more reliable now and have better quality cars, only thing i can be certain of is that Infiniti is much better than Lexus now.

I am calm, but point taken :)

I don't have much experience with Lexii... The IS300 is an interesting-looking car, but if I'm getting something that small, I'll wait for the RX-8, thanks. :)

Let Me spell this out for you since you didn't get it before.

T-H-A-T-S A-N E-N-D-E-R-!-!-!

I'm not here to argue about Infinitis. We are all here to talk about the RX8. Lets just do that. Hey, we agree on something Pat, we would both take the 8 over the IS.

Wow, I never knew screaming "That's an Ender!", etc. was the way rational people ended discussions. :D (This is me inflating my post-count, for the record)

Speaking of the IS300 - I saw one in gun-metal gray the other day that didn't look too bad. I was surprised, because most of the IS300s I see around look like souped-up civics to me. Something about the darker, more stately color made it look a little better. Still, I'll pass.

I also think that color looks great on the car. I don't know if I would refer to myself as 100% rational either. You are definately right about that. But being just a little irrational keeps things fun.

I own a TL-Type S

In an article by motortrend (or someother car magazine) made approximately a year ago... the TL came in 2nd out of 6 european sport sedans...TL by far has more bang for buck than the G35 has.

- and this whole nissan engine crap is over rated - every freakin' car they have has that same engine

-either way.. yeah yeah i know this is about the RX8 - but i wasn't gonna let anyone judge my car like that..

When most people buy a car they are not looking for a car that takes turns at 60 mph... good acceleration will usually suffices - buyers are readily interested in looks and price than what type a suspension the car has. Car companies are not looking at what our (as in car enthusiasts like ourselves) needs are - they look at the majority of the public and make decisions from there... All in all - I love my TL :P..

I think the CL is a more suitable candidate for comparison with the G35.

With the G35 coupe, yes, the CL is definitely the right comparison. With the sedan, though, I think the TL is probably a better matchup, since they're both aiming for people who want performance and 4 real doors/seats. Personally, I have doubts that the G35 coupe will fly. The people that might be interested in it will either go for the pure 2-seater 350z or the 4-door G35 sedan *from the same manufacturer*. I just don't see enough differentiation between the G35 coupe and the other nissan/infiniti offerings.

I think Mazda's strategy in this area is good, on the other hand. The miata fills the two-seat roadster category (something Nissan doesn't have). The Mazda6 with the bigger engine hits the people who want practical with some zip, and the RX-8 covers people who are willing to give up some practicality but want unique styling, great handling, and reasonable practicality as well.

The difference is that the Mazda offerings in each category are significantly different from each other. While the RX-8 fills a spot in some ways similar to what the G35 coupe will, it does so in a much more innovative way than just splitting the difference between the 350z and the G35 sedan.

Immi I am so jealous of your car.

Patrick, very very nice way of putting that comparison.

Originally posted by enjoy

Infiniti has changed its image lately, they are more reliable now and have better quality cars, only thing i can be certain of is that Infiniti is much better than Lexus now.


Talk to anyone in the wholesale/used business and they will all tell you that almost anyone would take a Lexus over an Infiniti. Besides, the Infiniti’s do not hold their resale value like the Lexus does.

I know that it is a fine engine but I find it hard to get excited about an engine that is offered in almost every car that Nissan makes. It’s even offered in the Altima for heavens sake. If Nissan was real serious the 350Z would have it’s own engine and NOT share it everything else it makes, especially the Altima.

I previously owned a 1976 Datsun 280Z that I really did love (kept it 10+ years) but in those days they did not throw that engine into every other car they made, it was for the Z.

Now don’t get me wrong and I definitely do not want to start flames, but I think that some of you guys really are giving Nissan too much credit. The 350Z really should have its very own engine and not one with a few of more horsepower than some of the others which they make. It could also go on one long diet.

Just my .02 worth.

You're not going to find many RSX type s (or type r in Japan) owners complaining that their engine is shared with a CR-V. Or many NSX owners complaining their engine is shared with a RL/TL. Honda engineers their engines (and platforms) with great flexibility on purpose and I think it works well, but that's Honda. Honda has always made their cars with great reliability, stressing form follwing function while still getting a great value. Something very few other manufacturers can say they have done.

Nissan with the new VQ35 engine is attempting to mold themselves into this successful plan (didn't work for them last time when they used that lousy truck engine for the last gen. Sentra). However, as was pointed out, the rest of the car that the engine is put into has to follow suit. It may have a great engine, but what about the quality of materials used throughout the rest of the car (Altima is said to be very *cheap* looking on the interior, for example)? Also, is it reliable?

It should also be pointed out that Nissan is sort of building a reputation of inaccurately stating HP ratings from their engines (an example would be the New Sentra SE-R v-spec). Many people are doubting the VQ35 produces the HP that Nissan states it does. Just food for thought.

Now with the Mazda RX-8. I think it's really cool that it is built on its own platform with its own engine. Mazda will be able to design the car exactly as they want to without worrying about sacrificing one or more areas in favor of another car being built off the same platform. However, with this strategy I am wondering how Mazda plans on keeping the price down? Mazda has mentioned that they plan on mass producing this car (as well as building a new RX-7 and Miata off the platform), but that's a big risk for Mazda. This car is soooooo different than anything else out there it's tough, for me anyway, to see how this car is going to fit in. Especially on a *mass produced* scale.

I completely on the engine thing. Nissan is being *smart* to reuse the overall engine platform in the Altima, G35 (sedan + coupe) and 350z. It reduces their maintenance training overheads, part stocking issues, etc. As rxtreme says, though, the car has to match the engine. The Z's engine is almost certainly going to be tuned for acceleration and top speed, with a different high-flow exhaust than that on the G35 sedan. This will almost certainly make the Z louder, too, something an Altima driver wouldn't want. The Altima 3.5SE, while an interesting car, is a bit soft on the handling. too.

Would you complain is Mazda took the Mazda6 and made a RX-6 version of that sedan, and in doing so were able tyo cut the price on the RX-8, and made service and mechanics experienced with the RENESIS easier to find? Of course not. You'd congratulate the 6 owner on his new great engine, but know that he didn't have the power, traction, transmission, or handling to match it that the RX-8 does have, because the engine and the rest of the car would be tuned to a different application than in the RX-8.

One last point - I wasn't slamming the TL type S at all in my discussion with DC. It's a great car, certainly more luxurious than the G35, with very good performance and a longer track record to back it up. Acura has a *very* good reputation for reliability. I wouldn't be surprised if next year's TL-S comes with an optional 6-speed manual and a higher-tuned performance, either, given the fresh competition in the sport sedan market. I'm simply saying that I don't think the criticism of the G35 was valid, as it is an excellent car.

#1 - Nissan is simply using the VQ engine across several platforms to cut costs. The VQ has been on Ward's list of best engines since it's introduction 10 years ago (it began life as a 3.0 liter for the maxima). It's Nissan's best engine, very flexible, and can be tuned for different applications.

#2 - The Acura TL-s and CL-s are both slated to get a 6 speed manual and LSD. These are actually available now on the CL-s. The Acuras offer great value right now. A similarly equipped competitor will cost you easily $3-$4k more. The 2 cars come standard with leather, power everything, sunroof and Xenon headlamps. The only option on these cars is the Nav system.

#3 - A manual transmission will be offered on the G35 sedan and coupe. It was not initially offered at rollout for the sedan simply because Nissan was not able to produce enough at that time to supply the G35 sedan, coupe and 350Z. This will not be an issue by spring.

#4 - If the G35 coupe is priced similar to the sedan (Starting at 29K), there will be a lot of people cross-shopping the RX-8 with it. Both cars will offer simlar performance and room for 4, with coupe styling at roughly the same price. The RX-8 might have more room in the rear seats and be more nimble, while the G35 coupe will be a bit softer and more luxurious.

My choice is still the RX-8 over the G35 Coupe, but I have yet to drive either (along with everyone else here). It's fun speculating though.

Don't compare the G35 coupe to the G35 sedan. The coupe uses the FM platform that the new 350z uses as well. The G35 sedan is RWD, that automatically means it performs better than FWD Acuras. FWD as far as most racers are concerned means garbage. FWD is better only on snow, and that's why we use it. F1 cars, NASCAR, CART, IRL are all RWD cars.

Will the G35 coupe be better than the RX-8. Well one thing is for sure, it will have more horsepower, probably around 285 hp...

red_base 95:
Very nice points there.

As for backseat space... I actually think G35 Coupe might more haf room because it has the same wheelbase as the sedan.

Is G35 coupe a Rx-8 KILLER: I wouldn't say so. With approx 280hp & 260trq I'd say Coupe would be a little faster than a Rx-8 in a straightway but IMO Rx-8 has a more aggressive look PLUS it's got a YELLOW exterior!!

BOTH great cars And I'm sure being an owner in any of the 2 will be happy :p

I would never buy a car with automatic...(saying that you couldn't sell cars) i would rather have a new bmw m3 then a 911 if it was auto..because where is the fun it that...

Originally posted by RXRX
I would never buy a car with automatic

Did u mean to say u wouldn't even consider G35 Coupe because it is automatic???(since this thread is comparing G35 Coupe to Rx-8) .:confused:
You should read the post made by red_base above, the G35 Coupe WILL come in with 6-speed manual as soon as it comes out in late September and you can expect G35 sedan to have 6-speed manual mode in 2003 as well. ;)

How much hp does the G35 coupe have?

If it has hp in the range of 260 to 280 wouldnt that be direct competition to the 350z??!?!

If I'm not mistaken, the G35 sedan has 245 HP and the G35 coupe will have 260 HP. I'm miffed that they aren't giving the sedan as much HP as the coupe, since I'd be more interested in the sedan. As I've said in other posts, the RX-8 is the only car I'd consider that doesn't have four real doors.

I do agree with Immi and others who think that the G35 coupe may steal a few sales from the 350Z, but since the money is all going into the same pockets, Nissan may not care. I know I would get the G35 before the Z, in fact, I wouldn't even consider a Z. I'm guessing there are lots of others out there who need the flexiblity afforded by a back seat. I'm pretty much sold on a RX-8 anyway so I'm not too concerned what Nissan does. I'm just hoping a loaded RX-8 will stay under $30K. That's my self-imposed ceiling.

Originally posted by rx-8_or?


Did u mean to say u wouldn't even consider G35 Coupe because it is automatic???(since this thread is comparing G35 Coupe to Rx-8) .:confused:
You should read the post made by red_base above, the G35 Coupe WILL come in with 6-speed manual as soon as it comes out in late September and you can expect G35 sedan to have 6-speed manual mode in 2003 as well. ;)


I know its automatic..i was just saying that is why i wouldn't buy that car..but when the 6-speed comes out i would consider it.

No oddball looking Saturn suicide doors on the G35 Coupe=no contest. The G35 is one clean looking machine while the Mazda just stands there and looks dump and confused!

Originally posted by Fred Bird Jr.
No oddball looking Saturn suicide doors on the G35 Coupe=no contest. The G35 is one clean looking machine while the Mazda just stands there and looks dump and confused!

IF thats what you think..why are you in this forum?

Actually Fred Bird, I would consider the styling of the G35 to be a big negative, especially when compared to the RX-8. I don't like the headlight treatment at all. That goes for the sedan, coupe, and 350Z, those headlights that just drool up from the bumper to the hood like that just don't do it for me. I do like the rounded edges on the rest of the car, it looks like Infinity and Nissan are trying to take a page out of Audi's book. They just need to clean up what they are doing from the front wheels forward.

I have looked at the G35 driven it, sat in it just to absorb it's interior, and I think that it's a nice car, the quality of materials, the leathers, the wood(optional in my tester) was excellent. I think the exterior is beautiful and the handling is great. Compared to the Acura, the Infinity is much more exciting and pleasing to look at. If we want to talk about funky interiors, let's discuss the Cadillac CTS. But someone might love it. It's all about opinions people. Oh I forgot this is an RX-8 forum. So let's get back to it shall we? As compared to those cars, the RX-8 will be more athletic. We have to remember though that the RX-8 is still a sportscar that can seat 4 adults comfortably while the Acura, Infiniti, so forth are sports sedans. If history serves me well, Mazda engineers will make the RX-8 a classy car inside and out, and it's overall styling will again be ahead of it's time.....case in point the '93-'95 FD. Nuff said for now:D

Ok, ok, before you flame me.....I was the first person in New England (supposedly) on the list for RX-8....I have since changed my mind but I must say that quite a few of you kids in here are mis-informed.

The 2003 Infiniti G35 COUPE Sport will have: 287 HP and 275ft/lbs of torque. Add to this a "proven" quality engine - I was apprehensive about a "first year" enine in the Renesis.

I am still a fan of the RX-8 (love the doors) and interior and some of the exterior - it's just that in my opinion, the G35 is much better looking and will definitely be faster.....

Where is the torque in the RX?? Last time I saw it was around 165ft/lbs?? What the hell is that about?? When I step on the gas I want to "feeeeeel" something.....HP ratings for the RX are cool - around 250...and I bet it will weigh a tad less (like a 100 or 200lbs)....The G35 Sedan is a completely different animal than thye Coupe....just consider the Coupe a more luxurious 350z with better service (free loaners)....the Sedan has about 260 HP and 260 Ft/lbs and is due for 6 speed in Feb 2003.....very respectable....but my guess is that the Coupe will be running about 5.5 - 5.6secs in 0-60....the RX-8 will be around 5.9-6.0 (per initial tests).....also, the Coupe shares the exact same suspension with the 350z so it will handle quite well......as well as Brembo brakes std on the 6 speed Sport model which I have pre-ordered.......All in all, both very nice "Sports" cars.....I would thoroughly enjoy either but have opted for the G35 Coupe...

I currently drive a 2000 MAZDA Millenia S Mill. Ed. which I enjoy...so yes, Infifniti made me a convert....you can't knock the lines of the Coupe...it's gorgeous!!...but then so is the RX......flip a coin!!

ps.. Whatever idiot compared the Acura TL to the G35 is sorely mistaken or on some pretty damn good drugs....ah hello!!...you can't even come close to comparing RWD vs FWD.....read up laddy!!!

Originally posted by natev
Infifniti made me a convert....you can't knock the lines of the Coupe...it's gorgeous!!...but then so is the RX......flip a coin!!


That is so true, natev.
I'm also torn btwn G35 Coupe and RX-8... both WONDERFUL cars.
:(
Nice summary of the Coupe btw

Originally posted by KayakDaddy
I'm just hoping a loaded RX-8 will stay under $30K. That's my self-imposed ceiling.

Loaded Rx-8 under $30k??? THe dealer I went to told me approx $48k CDN for base rx-8. And Canada Usually sells the same car for a cheaper pirce, ex. track model Z selling for $36k in States where the same one sells for $31k(converted) in Canada. Perhaps my dealer doesn't have a clue what he's talking about...

With a loaded Rx-8 for under $30k it's definitely worth to buy.

Where is the torque in the RX?? Last time I saw it was around 165ft/lbs?? What the hell is that about?? When I step on the gas I want to "feeeeeel" something.....

hey, don't go bad mouthing the rotary!! and ESPECIALLY don't go saying stuff like that about torque, etc., 'cause i'm thinking Rich doesn't want to go through that again (for like a thrid or fourth time...)... go back to earlier posts, and DRIVE an old RX-7... no muscle car, but you'll feel something, trust me...

rx-8_or?, I'm not familiar with the conversion between cdn and the US dollar, what does $48K=?

At any rate, I think the only thing we can get from dealers right now is educated guesses. The magazine guys haven't been able to pin down an accurate price yet either. We'll just have to wait and see what they list at when they are finally released.

My expectation of getting a loaded one for around $30,000 stems from two things. First, I've promised myself that I'd never have another car payment, and I'd like to stick to that. I'll paraphrase a quote I once heard, "There are two types of people, those who understand interest and earn it, and those who don't and pay it." I thinking I'd like to get one for around $30K because I don't think I will be able to allocate much more than that before I'll be ready to get one. It's not too bad now, because no one else has one either, but after I start seeing them on the road, it's going to be real hard not to have one already.

The other thing in my favor is that I'm eligible for Ford and Mazda's X-plan pricing, because I work for a major automotive supplier. That can make a major difference in what I end up paying. Because we supply most manufactures, I can get discounts on about half of the new cars on the market, and I doubt I'd ever buy a new car now that I couldn't get the discount on.

Kayakdaddy, I would be really surprised if the RX-8 was eligible for Mazda's S-plan (They don't have X-plan, that's Ford's). I just bought a Miata for S-plan pricing, and "in demand" models aren't eligible. Also, Mazda seems to have a separate S-plan price for each car. Even if they do offer S-plan on the RX-8, it might just be MSRP if the dealers are gouging. :eek: Just a thought, I don't have any special insight other than having researched it through the same channels everyone who's eligible has at their disposal. If you know more than me, I wouldn't be at all surprised.

natev, check out this (http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.php?threadid=361) link if you think the RX-8 doesn't have enough torque.

As for the G35 Coupe, I doubt there are many enthusiasts here that aren't at least a bit interested in that car. It seems to offer great performance and luxury for a very reasonable price. I certainly wouldn't disagree with anyone that decided to get one over the RX-8. I think the performance difference will fall decidedly in the RX-8's favor, and the luxury attributes in the Infiniti's favor. The Infiniti is expected to weight about 400 lbs. more than the RX-8 (3386 lbs. (http://ca.autos.yahoo.com/cd/prvw/firstdrive2003infinitig35.html) vs. 2970 lbs (see R&T April 2002)), which will hurt both its straight line acceleration as well as its handling and feel. There are lots of rumors that the RX-8 has been on a severe diet since the R&T article, so I wouldn't be very surprised to see that advatage grow to 500 lbs. for the RX-8. Even at 400 lbs., the lighter weight and gearing (http://www.vettenet.org/torquehp.html) advantages that the RX-8 will have should keep it at least as fast as the Infiniti, and very close to the 350Z as well.

Beatuy is, as we all know, in the eye of the beholder. Some prefer the Z, some the 8, some the G35, some the Aztec (!) or Ford Explosions. I won't get into that debate, other than to say get the one you like, and don't bother trying to convince others that your car is better looking than theirs. It'll just take away from your time to enjoy driving the car, and annoy everyone within earshot.

Originally posted by RXRX


IF thats what you think..why are you in this forum? I discovered it while reading an edition of Autoweek and since I love cars I decided to check it out. I admit, I really am disappointed with Mazda's decision to produce the RX-8 especially since when I first heard about it I was thinking it was going to be a replacement for the RX-7 but than again I do remember the old RX-2 and RX-3 too and they certainly weren't sports cars either. :(

Originally posted by Rich


I think the performance difference will fall decidedly in the RX-8's favor, and the luxury attributes in the Infiniti's favor. The Infiniti is expected to weight about 400 lbs. more than the RX-8 (3386 lbs. vs. 2970 lbs (see R&T April 2002)), which will hurt both its straight line acceleration as well as its handling and feel. The lighter weight and gearing advantages that the RX-8 will have should keep it at least as fast as the Infiniti, and very close to the 350Z as well.



Rich I'm not trying to argue with you but I've ran some calculations between G35 Coupe & Rx-8 and I don't understand how Rx-8 will beat the Coupe in straight line acceleration.

Stats for Coupe:
approx 282 hp & 275trq
weight for the sedan 3386lbs(Coupe will be lighter)

Stats for Rx-8:
250hp & 162trq(from what I know so far)
2970lbs(so far)

From calculation Rx-8 weighs 87.7% of G35 sedan
But Rx-8 has 58.9% of torque and 88.7% of HP relative to G35 Coupe

And YES I understand the gearing advantages that Rx-8 holds over G35 Coupe.

In theory shouldn't the Coupe be faster in straightline because it weighs 14% heavier than Rx-8 but has 70% more torque?

Is there anyone who can show me why Rx-8 would be faster?:confused:

Originally posted by KayakDaddy
rx-8_or?, I'm not familiar with the conversion between cdn and the US dollar, what does $48K=?


KayakDaddy: $48k CDN is approx $31,500 US dollar

I was thinking in Canada we can get the same track model Z for $31k relative to $36k in the states... Thus if you *can* get a loaded Rx-8 for under $30k then perhaps we can get it for less than $28k here in Canada, which would be too good 2 b true! :eek:

blah blah blah.. the G35 is an Altima with leather seats.

Originally posted by rx-8_or?
Stats for Coupe:
approx 282 hp & 275trq
weight for the sedan 3386lbs(Coupe will be lighter)

Stats for Rx-8:
250hp & 162trq(from what I know so far)
2970lbs(so far)

From calculation Rx-8 weighs 87.7% of G35 sedan
But Rx-8 has 58.9% of torque and 88.7% of HP relative to G35 Coupe

In theory shouldn't the Coupe be faster in straightline because it weighs 14% heavier than Rx-8 but has 70% more torque?

Is there anyone who can show me why Rx-8 would be faster?:confused:

Here's the short answer. That 70% figure is comparing engine torque, not torque at the rear wheels. Even though you say you understand it, you're completely ignoring gearing. Taking into account gearing, it's simple to get the torque *at the rear wheels* to match almost identically. The torque times the RPM at which it's achieved gives the Infiniti a 2.7% advantage over the RX-8, while the RX-8 weighs 11% less. Similar torque *at the rear wheels*, and significantly less weight mean faster in a straight line. Peak torque values don't matter, it's torque at the wheels that counts! Unless you're into racing paper tigers...

Now, there are those that don't understand torque vs. RPM, so they don't understand why Torque * RPM matters. I will simply ask them to follow the links I alredy provided. To those that do understand, yes, I know I made some false assumptions. I assumed that the torque curves were shaped identically, which they're not. However, I think this may give the RX-8 an additional advantage! The engine is supposed to have 90% of its peak torque available from 3250, which means that it's got more area under the curve (remember back to calculus? It applies here!). I don't know over what RPM range the Infiniti produces 90% of its peak torque, but I'd be a bit surprised if it had 90% available over 2/3 of the RPM range. It's possible though, and would change the comparison. Anyway, that's the short answer to your question. We're not racing these cars on an engine dyno. If you compare the torque that makes it to the wheels, the advantage disappears completely for the Infiniti.


Sorry this is so long, but you can stop here if you want. The rest is just a bit of a rant.
There is no way to know right now which will be faster in a straight line. I'm not going to argue that the RX-8 will be faster in a straight line than the G35 Coupe. First of all, it's simply impossible to know at this point. Second, I really couldn't care less. I have absolutely no interest in racing cars on paper. I love *driving* cars, not talking about stats. I deal with numbers all day at work, and would rather hit the twisties during my time off. I chose my cars based upon how they drive, not based upon which gives me more numbers to use as ammunition in the message board community. Third, I never go drag racing, and I never street race anyone. I'm going to autoX, where the driver is the difference, not the car (strange concept, huh? You should try it some time). So I won't argue why the RX-8 will be faster (yes, I could say a whole lot more), but I think the above shows why they should be close. Until someone *drives* the cars, it's a pointless argument. Right now that argument falls in the RX-8's lap *on paper*, but who really cares?

Other thoughts, this time on the stats that you used. I wanted to leave these 'til the end so that I could get the discussion out of the way first.

First, you're correct that I had the Sedan's weight at 3386. Sorry about that, it was a mistake. However, this article (http://auto.consumerguide.com/auto/new/reviews/full/index.cfm/i) claims that the Coupe will weigh more than the sedan, possibly due to the extra width. It's supposed to be 3416 lbs. according to that report, which was updated just 3 days ago. However, I'll be the first to admit that I don't know the exact weight, and I don't know how it was measured. Let's give it the benefit of the doubt (by over 100 lbs.!) and say it will weight 3300 lbs.
I don't know where you got the 282 HP and 275 lb. feet of torque stats from, but I can only find 280 HP @ 6000 RPM and 260 @ 4800 RPM for torque. The above link is one of the many places that I found those figures.

So we've got:
G35 Coupe
weight - 3300 lbs.
Torque - 260 lb. feet @ 4800
HP - 280 HP @ 6000

RX-8
weight - 2970 lbs.
Torque - 162 lb. feet @ 7500
HP - 250 @ 8500

Those are the numbers I used at the top.
*edited for spelling*

Good post Rich! You made it understandable to us non-number crunchers.

That G35 thing looks ordinary.... the RX-8 looks great by comparison... I'd have the RX-8 on those grounds alone... but with the rotary engine and good performance, handling and the doors etc.. it's a sure fire winner.

Rich: I'm not saying that 70% higher in engine torque MEANS 70% Faster in Speed. In the comparison btwn 11%(since u gave me the benefit of the doubt =p) more weight & 70% more torque I'm only saying that 70% in engine torque IS a big difference and I think that it should allow the Coupe to put more than 11% "torque at the rear wheels".

BTW I said that Coupe will be lighter because overall it will be a smaller car compared to the Sedan. YES the coupe does have the extra width but it is shorter in length.

I told YOU I knew about the gearing advantage.
What you are trying to say is this:

car A: 300torque @ 6000rpm
car B: 300torque @ 9000rpm

Car B will be faster in acceleration once car A has reached 6000rpm and has to shift into second gear because car B can keep going until it reaches 9000rpm.

I didn't use the equations and other blah blah blahs because it's too much trouble but didn't I get the overall concept correct??
Therefore you don't have to give me a lecture on something I ALREADY know. I told you I knew about the gearing already.
All I wanted to say from the last post is that you SHOULDN"T assume Rx-8 will be faster than the Coupe, that's all.
Anyways, can we end this argument now?

Originally posted by Rich
the RX-8 will have should keep it at least as fast as the Infiniti

Originally posted by rx-8_or?
Rich: I'm not saying that 70% higher in engine torque MEANS 70% Faster in Speed.
I never thought you did.
Originally posted by rx-8_or?
70% in engine torque IS a big difference and I think that it should allow the Coupe to put more than 11% "torque at the rear wheels".
That's simply wrong. I've already explained it twice on this board. Looking at the peak torque values without looking at where they are produced is horribly misleading.
Originally posted by rx-8_or?
I said that Coupe will be lighter because overall it will be a smaller car compared to the Sedan. YES the coupe does have the extra width but it is shorter in length.
Perhaps. I don't know if it will be lighter, but I do know that the link that I provided above shows that it will be heavier. That's all I know. If you've got some other source, I'd take that one as well. The link doesn't seem to work now, I'll try again here (http://auto.consumerguide.com/auto/new/reviews/full/index.cfm/i). You can simply go to the Infiniti, g35, full review section to see it if the new link doesn't work.
Originally posted by rx-8_or?
I told YOU I knew about the gearing advantage.
What you are trying to say is this:

car A: 300torque @ 6000rpm
car B: 300torque @ 9000rpm

Car B will be faster in acceleration once car A has reached 6000rpm and has to shift into second gear because car B can keep going until it reaches 9000rpm.
No. This is wrong. This is, most emphatically, NOT what I was saying. If this is how you interpreted what I was saying, I can only ask that you read what I wrote again. It's tough stuff, and I probably didn't explain it as well as it could be explained.
Originally posted by rx-8_or?
All I wanted to say from the last post is that you SHOULDN"T assume Rx-8 will be faster than the Coupe, that's all.
(From previous post)
Is there anyone who can show me why Rx-8 would be faster?
You asked a question, I tried to answer it. There's no reason to get worked up about it. Based on what we know, the RX-8 could produce 3% less torque *at the wheels*, and is expected to weight at least 11% less. This means that it's entirely possible the RX-8 could be faster in a straight line. Then again, like I said before, we don't know enough to know for sure. We need the gear ratios, final drive ratio, final weights, full torque curves, drivetrain losses, etc., or we could wait for someone to drive them.
Originally posted by rx-8_or?
Anyways, can we end this argument now?
I never thought it was an argument, but if you want to end it, that's fine. I was simply trying to answer your question.

*** My apologies to the regulars here for flooding the forum with these long posts. I hope that I'm doing something positive by trying to answer people's questions, but let me know if it's just sounding like noise at this point. I don't want to be an obnoxious irritant. ***

Very informative Rich.

I say keep it up!

Not a prob Rich. The 8 is still speculative. So everyone, let's keep an even keel until it's debut and we get some hard skidpad/dyno numbers, and save the comparisons until then. :)

They both seem like they will be great cars and here's one scenerio where they don't have to be competitors.

We are currently researching to replace my wife's BMW 328i with a larger but comparable car. Up until now I've been pretty much sold on getting a newer 5-series. I've had two BMW's and have been very satisfied with their great balance of sport and luxury. My wife drives like a grandma so I'd get a 528i instead of a 540i. For the price we are looking to spend, we'd be getting a 99-01 model.

Well I've been doing a little more reading and research and the Infinity G35 sedan has caught my eye. It won a recent comparison test in Road & Track between 11 world-class sports sedans. (see: http://www.roadandtrack.com/reviews/roadtests/articledisplay.asp?articleid=235 ) It's generally considered a competitor to the 3-series BMW but is a good deal less expensive than a 330i. The funny thing is, I've noticed that it has larger interior dimensions in every category than a 5-series BMW. It's trunk is also half again as large and has a larger opening. The Infinity also has a good bit more horsepower (260 vs. 195) and is about 300 lbs. lighter. To top it all off, I can get a brand new 2003 G35 for about the same price as a 2000 528i. I think we have a winner.

I plan on going to look at and test drive a G35 in a couple of weeks (there is no Infinity dealer in our town) and we plan on buying something for her before Christmas. I still think the BMW looks way better. We'll have to get a bright color to offset the G35's blandness.

As for me, I'm still a RX-8 man. I love the thought of a light weight, great handling machine with the high-reving regenisis rotary. It will suit my driving style much better and I love the styling. As long as my wife has a good sized car, I can have a smallish one. I still need the flexiblity of the usable rear seat that the RX-8 will afford. I look to get mine in early 2004.

See, under this scenerio, Mazda and Infinity are both winners and so are we! :)

I agree, Mazda's upcomming line-up of cars is great in quality, performance, and looks. Infiniti also has improved, in my opinion they have better products Lexus.

The G35 is a great car, If it were me i would go with the G35, just because its brand new and Nissan has great reliability with the V6 engines.

Sorry... the G35 just doesn't do it for me... it is probably a very good car, but IMHO is looks plain and uninteresting.... I can 't see how it's a competitor to the RX-8 other than in performance.

Has anyone thought about comparing the Lexus IS300 or dare I say the IS430... as I don't know what these cost in the US... but they do look nicer than the G35.

Rich I don't think you understand what I'm trying to say. You made a statement:
Originally posted by Rich
the RX-8 will have should keep it at least as fast as the Infiniti

I thought this might not be correct, just like you said
Originally posted by Rich
Then again, like I said before, we don't know enough to know for sure. We need the gear ratios, final drive ratio, final weights, full torque curves, drivetrain losses, etc., or we could wait for someone to drive them.

That is why I made my posts. I wasn't trying to argue that G35 Coupe will be faster than the Rx-8. Just that you don't know for sure Rx-8 will be faster. However you sounded like rx-8 will only be faster, but not slower, with the top statement.

But thanks for providing me with an answer and all the information. Your theories are also reasonable, no doubt. Although I have no knowledge of the outcome between eg. a 250tq @ 4000rpm and 150tq @ 8000rpm in reality, I understand it is possible for the 150tq car to beat the 250tq one.
I do hope you will *still answer* my questions in the future if you can, as I have learned valuable knowledge through these posts.

I've recently graduated to Member! I never made it that far in forums because my attention span doesn't allow me to stay chatting about the same thing to the same people for a long time, and I must say one of the things keeping me here is how much I'm learning about rotaries, the car I'm in love with, and the physics behind engines.

In matters regarding the latter, Rich you have hands down provided the clearest, easyest to understand, and most ample information I've gotten out of this forum. You've done it in both a patient and non condescending manner. If you're a teacher, you're a damn good one, and your students are extremely fortunate (you can quote me to them).

You're DEFINITELY not sounding like noise to me, keep up the info. Only thing is I wonder how you have the time to write all this?:rolleyes:

RX-8_or? , you have alot of fresh questions, I like that. Keep those questions coming (just don't adress them all to Rich, god knows the mans written loads already ;) )

Basically, thanks for the QnA guys!

You guys want to know something really interesting.....no one in freshalloy's G35 section has even brought the mere thought of a RX-8 being a competitor....the RX-8 is on line to be (quoted from R&T article!!) a 6 second car.....the G35Sedan is a 6 second car WITH AN AUTOMATIC....the G35 will be more a mid 5's car in the M6 Sport...no doubt a few secs slower than the 350z, but "ON PAPER" it will be quicker 0-60 than the RX......funny how you guys seem so excited for a Prototype engine that could take years to work the bugs out? (that is what ruled out the Renesis for me). While the VQ has been around and won numerous "best engine" awards in it's lifetime.....hmmm?

ps. I also think that the G35 Coupe is anything but "regular" looking as someone here posted?? Are you crazy man?? They (RX and Coupe) are both exceptionally styled sports cars with the Coupe edging it out IMO.

Show me a picture I can like... otherwise, I'm sticking to that opinion... it doesn't have anything to distinugish it from so many other cars, it's even dull looking in the photo's I've seen...

I like the IS200/300 Sport so I'm at least partly open to other makes..... LOL...

Anyway, In answer to your points about the competition, and the "experimental" renesis....

The Renesis engine isn't experimental in the sense tht you think... Mazda has beed developing these engines since the 60's AND this one is closely based on the 13B, used in the RX-7's that several people on the board have had close to 300,000 miles out of..... The Turbo RX-7's WERE often unreliable... but I have become convinced from reading many a horror story that the problems were mainly with the turbo's and at least contributed to by the lack of skill of the dealers to diagnose the problems.... Which should be less of a problem these days.
Since the Renesis is normally aspirated, there shouldn't be nearly the problems that plagued the later RX-7's as the engine is left in a configuration that has very few moving parts and none that have given a problem in the past without the engine being out of tune... which should be next to impossible with modern ECU software. When did you last need the head taken off your car for "maintainance"... Unless you're talking about this level of work, then an engine is an engine... and I have become convinced that we are very likley to see a reliable unit in the Renesis.... if not, there will probably never be another production rotary, so you can bet that Mazda has tested it to within an inch of it's life.

Also, performance is a moot point, the car will be quick... even very quick... and frankly I don't care if it beats another given car on paper. The reason is simple, it's a sports car... and on the road it's all about handling, feel and FUN. Half the RX-7 horror stories I have read resulted in people buying ANOTHER RX-7, because they loved the car so much dispite it's faults, and this can really only be due to the rotary engine which brings us back to the issues above. I'm sure it's gonna have the chasis and handling it promises... but the rotary is what drives people and it does have special magic all of it's own on top of the novelty value. Dare to be different.

From the editor at R&T: "When the G35 Coupe was brought onstage at the NYIAS, everyone in attendance stopped and gawked. The new 2 door is striking with a low aggressive stance that befits a Sports car" - hmm how much press did teh RX get after the same show?

see attached:

Time will tell all.....and then some.
Do you plan on driving the RX at a constant 8000 RPMs or what? LOL..... ;o). They are both going to be extremely capable, freshly designed machines. I was just saying that I would NEVER buy a "prototype" first year engine. I actually had the first deposit in New England on the RX until I saw the G Coupe. I also currently drive a 2000 Millenia S, so yes, NNA converted me. To each his own.

ps: this is from a member here (Ozone):I do intend to purchase this car at some point, but I plan to wait at least a year, maybe two, to actually purchase. I have found it is usually a good idea to wait when a brand new model is released, especially with an unproven engine. Waiting will also give the hype a chance to die down and any initial quality problems to get sorted out. Case in point, my wife wanted to get the new Jeep Liberty when it came out last summer, but we decided to see how the reliable the cars turned out to be. Sure enough, there were some issues. DC got their act together, fixed the problems and I believe our Liberty is a much better car than the original models off the production line.

That's all I was trying to say. I'd wait until the gremlins are gone.
Anything good or bad to do with Renesis (on a long term basis) is pure speculation.

Hmmmm....
That picture of the G35 coupe just looks like a big Acura RSX. That's not a bad thing, just nothing ground breaking.

The Infinity will be an excellent car. I've already posted that I'll probably end up getting the G35 sedan for my wife. I'm OK with her driving a bland car, especially one that nice. It is bland though, I passed one today on the way to work, and I didn't get excited, even though I want one. I can't see me not getting excited the first time I pass a shiney new RX-8

The more I study them, the less I think Infinity and Mazda are going after the same demographics. The G35 coupe should be a refined and world class GT crusier/sports coupe and the RX-8 looks like it will be more of a pure sports car, only with four seats. Both of them should be great at what they do, but just made for different people.

Our opinions on the looks of the cars aside...

I still argue that the Renesis engine is purely an evolution of a proven concept.... it is a simply a 13B in essence and as such isn't "experimental" any more than developments on other engines are.... The engine in the Honda S2000 is unique, but it is just an evolution on previous VTEC versions, for example. People are far too quick to brand somthing like this as excentric and "experimental" which is why it's never been truely accepted.

Not that I don't agree that there are probably going to be a few (hopefully) minor problems to be resolved in the beginning of the production... there often are. On the other hand, Mazda must be aware of the importance of this car to their future.... and I'm betting that it's been tested very very well, which may be why the concept has taken so long to realise.

The previous Mazda cars aside, NSU successfully marketed their rotary models from 1964 to 1977 (When they were absorbed into VW) and were ready to continue with new 3 rotor versions.... I don't quite follow... are you describing the rotary engine as experimental, or the Renesis as experimental... since the former has been well proven since the early 60's and the latter is the latest evolution of the well proven 13B.

Originally posted by natev

From the editor at R&T: "When the G35 Coupe was brought onstage at the NYIAS, everyone in attendance stopped and gawked. The new 2 door is striking with a low aggressive stance that befits a Sports car" - hmm how much press did teh RX get after the same show?


I do not know about the “same show”, but I do recall the April 2002 R&T article (page 53):


At first glance the yellow sports car didn’t look Japanese at all, but rather, Italian with its aggressive face, elegant contours and flowing lines. If it weren’t for the big “M” on the hood, I would have mistaken it for a Ferrari or Maserati. In fact, I believe this RX-8 is the prettiest car to have come out of Japan… ever.


I think they liked the rx8 styling. :D

hehehe.... i just love that quote:D

Originally posted by zoom44
hehehe.... i just love that quote:D

Yes… it’s one of my favorites. :D

Originally posted by natev
Do you plan on driving the RX at a constant 8000 RPMs or what?

Why would anyone get one and not keep it pegged at the redline? :D
That's how I drive my Miata! Other than 1st, the engine never sees the area below 4k.

KayakDaddy, you took the words right out of my mouth. While both should be fantastic cars, I don't think there will be any contest for enthusiasts. I do think the auto rags are going to compare the two. They need to put the RX-8 in a comparison with something, and I bet the G35 coupe will be one of the standards in the price class.

zoom zoomie, I only wrote in that quote b/c the RX (in yellow) was being displayed at the same NYIAS. It just didn't get any press for being there. And yes, I think we have all read that R&T quote....remember, that was almost 5 months ago though....LOL....j/k

Nice body, uninspiring interior, blubbery weight, yet still good performance and Nissan reliability. Still, I'll take the RX-8 any day.

Has anyone read this month's issue of Road and Track magazine? They have a great article on the G35 Sport Coupe with the 6-speed manual transmission. The G35C actually had better performance numbers around the track than the 350Z, but suffered a bit in acceleration due to its weight. The author (Sam Mitani, same fellow who wrote the article praising the RX-8) seemed to like the car quite a bit, saying it was very much a true sports car in contrast some of the other "Luxury Sports Coupes" out there.

Just a quick comparison of stats:
Stat = G35C vs. RX-8
Transmission = 6 M/T vs. 6 M/T
Horsepower = 280 @ 6200 RPM vs. 250 @ 8500 RPM (-30 HP)
Torque (ft-lbs) = 270 @ 4800 RPM vs. 162 @ 7500 RPM (-108 ft-lbs)
Curb Weight = 3435 lbs. vs. 2970 lbs. (+465 lbs.)
Weight Dist. = 54/46 vs. 50/50 (est.)
Wheelbase = 112.2 in. vs. 106.3 in. (-5.9 in.)
Length = 182.2 in. vs. 174.2 in. (-8 in.)
Width = 71.5 in. vs. 69.7 in. (-1.8 in.)
Height = 54.8 in. vs. 52.8 in. (-2 in.)
0-60 = 6.1 sec. vs. 6.0 sec (-0.1 sec.)
0 - 1/4 Mile = 14.6 sec. vs. 14.5 sec. (-0.1 sec.)

Please keep in mind that all of these statisics come from Road & Track, but the RX-8 stats are estimates only. However, you can see that the G35C is a significantly larger car than the RX-8, so the large differences in torque and power don't mean much when it comes to performance. I fully expect the RX-8 to be even with the G35C in straight-line performance, but to out-handle it in any given situation. The RX-8 is coming from the same company that build an economy car (Protoge MP3) that was compared to Ferraris and Porsches for high-speed handling! Imagine the handling of a purpose-built sports car from the same company. I expect it to be nothing less than phenominal.

So what it comes right down to is personal perference... both are great cars, both are very fast. Looks are in the eye of the beholder, though I personally think the RX-8 is much better looking than the G35C. In the end, all I can say is if you think you might like both, wait a couple of months and test drive the RX-8 and G35C back to back. Buy the car that makes you the happiest.

You know mach, i think you're right on the money. The reason I believe that Mazda is being so secretive about performance, etc; is that they want to blow the competition off the map when the cars finally hit the Auto mags and then the street. They are probably looking for maximum impact by announcing phenomenal performance and handling stats at or right after the launch. Nothing will help sales better than to have all the major magazines come out weith glowing reports. Let's hope that's the case.
Elsewhere i posted a performance comparison to the 3rd Gen RX-7. mazda has already told us that the RX-8 out handles (performs?) the 7. If that's the case, then my comparison might actually be close to real. Here's hoping.:D

Thats being real optimistic dog, but i hope your right, wouldnt it be amazing if they kept the weight under 2800lb and boosted power to 280 hp like they were supposed to do.

Originally posted by boowana
mazda has already told us that the RX-8 out handles (performs?) the 7.
Um, when did Mazda say that? Mazda said the 8 was more rigid, and rigidity does affect handling, but I really really doubt the 8 will pull 0.98g or be faster than an R1 around a track.

Although I personally didn't see it, there was a video shown at SevenStock where a RX-8 was chasing a RX-7 around the track. While on the straights the RX-7 pulled away, the RX-8 actually made up time in the corners, and was able to hang with it.

Not many cars can out corner a 7... can't wait to drive this thing!

actually, i thoght nobody saw it (wink wink nudge nudge) :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Grimace
Although I personally didn't see it, there was a video shown at SevenStock where a RX-8 was chasing a RX-7 around the track. While on the straights the RX-7 pulled away, the RX-8 actually made up time in the corners, and was able to hang with it.

So the RX-8 was shown to be fast in a advertisement. Sorry, but this doesn't prove squat.

The R1 had an EXTREMELY stiff suspension, and has been tested to be faster than a 911 Turbo around a track, so I'm kind of doubtful that the 8 could keep up in a serious race.

Originally posted by m477

So the RX-8 was shown to be fast in a advertisement. Sorry, but this doesn't prove squat.

The R1 had an EXTREMELY stiff suspension, and has been tested to be faster than a 911 Turbo around a track, so I'm kind of doubtful that the 8 could keep up in a serious race.

It wasn't an ad. :rolleyes: The video wasn't released to the public, and probably never will be. Both cars were being flogged. The video was shot from inside the cabin of the RX-8. I'm not sure if the other car was an R1 or not, but even the standard RX-7 was no slouch.
A design goal (which sounds like it has been met) with the RX-8 was to have a more compliant suspension than the RX-7, but with handling meeting or exceeding it.

Just to address a misnomer: Extremely stiff suspension does not make a car handle better. If so, F1 cars would have bricks for coil springs. The Miata is relatively softly sprung and will embarras 99% of the cars out there in the twisties. A more compliant, non-jittery suspension is what you want to keep the tires on the ground if the surface isn't perfect. Its all about a balance between body roll and contact with the ground.

Originally posted by Grimace
Just to address a misnomer: Extremely stiff suspension does not make a car handle better. If so, F1 cars would have bricks for coil springs. The Miata is relatively softly sprung and will embarras 99% of the cars out there in the twisties. A more compliant, non-jittery suspension is what you want to keep the tires on the ground if the surface isn't perfect. Its all about a balance between body roll and contact with the ground.
Very well said and very correct.

Myself I like the look of the G35 coupe and it looks like a very good performing GT coupe.
But, this is how I think of the power vs handling argument. How many times and where can you really apply that power? Especially here in North America with the stupid a$$ hwy speed limits? :rolleyes: Rarely I say unless you are asking to get speeding tickets.. which I've been lucky with considering on the hwy I'm always crusing at 130-160km/hr. :D

On the other hand, you use "handling" ALL the time. Even a slow 90 deg corner at 40km/hr can put a big smile on my face. This why I modded my stock suspension a lot more than the engine in my car. And I also got high performance summer tires.
So I don't have a problem with othes choosing the G35, I'm sure it's a great car and a great performer. Myself I'll take the lighter weight, razor sharp handling and "nimbleness" due to the ~400lb difference. I will not have a sleepless night because the G35 is quicker to the 1/4 mile in a magazine test by .2secs.. In the real world that difference CAN and WILL be made up by a better driver. :)

Originally posted by Grimace
It wasn't an ad. :rolleyes: The video wasn't released to the public, and probably never will be. Both cars were being flogged. The video was shot from inside the cabin of the RX-8. I'm not sure if the other car was an R1 or not, but even the standard RX-7 was no slouch.
A design goal (which sounds like it has been met) with the RX-8 was to have a more compliant suspension than the RX-7, but with handling meeting or exceeding it.
It was a video made by Mazda to show to potential new car buyers. It was *not* an independant, unbiased test. That is an advertisement in my book. Since there are no more new 7s, and the 8 is about to go on sale, it isn't in Mazda's best interest for people to see the 7 kicking the 8's ass. It IS in Mazda's best interest however to show the 8 having great handling, just as that video portrayed. Take that for what it's worth, but in cases like this I say FOLLOW THE MONEY!

Originally posted by Grimace
Just to address a misnomer: Extremely stiff suspension does not make a car handle better. If so, F1 cars would have bricks for coil springs. The Miata is relatively softly sprung and will embarras 99% of the cars out there in the twisties. A more compliant, non-jittery suspension is what you want to keep the tires on the ground if the surface isn't perfect. Its all about a balance between body roll and contact with the ground.
In general, if you take your average passenger vehicle and upgrade its bouncy, floaty suspension, it generally will get stiffer, just as the R1 FD handled better than the Touring model. Again, this is by passenger vehicle standards, which are usually WAY too soft.

The Miata is faster through the twistes than most cars largely because it is vastly lighter than most cars, and the majority of cars out there are also FWD.

Originally posted by Quick_lude

Very well said and very correct.

Myself I like the look of the G35 coupe and it looks like a very good performing GT coupe.
But, this is how I think of the power vs handling argument. How many times and where can you really apply that power? Especially here in North America with the stupid a$$ hwy speed limits? :rolleyes: Rarely I say unless you are asking to get speeding tickets.. which I've been lucky with considering on the hwy I'm always crusing at 130-160km/hr. :D

On the other hand, you use "handling" ALL the time. Even a slow 90 deg corner at 40km/hr can put a big smile on my face. This why I modded my stock suspension a lot more than the engine in my car. And I also got high performance summer tires.
So I don't have a problem with othes choosing the G35, I'm sure it's a great car and a great performer. Myself I'll take the lighter weight, razor sharp handling and "nimbleness" due to the ~400lb difference. I will not have a sleepless night because the G35 is quicker to the 1/4 mile in a magazine test by .2secs.. In the real world that difference CAN and WILL be made up by a better driver. :)
My friend is an Audi fanatic, and will be getting the next S4.. figure the 0-60 is 5.6 for the S4, and 5.8 for the RX-8. He's already told me that he'll beat me in a race.

Thus, I will have to shame him as he is yet to learn how to properly drive stickshift :)

All these cars... S4, RX-7, RX-8, G35, 350Z are VERY fast and will accelerate dramtically with a lot of drama and fury, both to the driver and anyone looking on from the outside.

Most of us don't go to the track. If you have one of these rockets, how often do you meet a comparable car like this at a stoplight, and are you prepared to go all-out racing them at that point? Six of seven seconds of full-throttle acceleration gets you a ticket pretty much anywhere in the US... a very big ticket if you race in the residential and city areas you are likely to have an opportunity to meet one of these other cars at a light. Besides the ticket, there is also the damage to life, limb, and property.

The point I am trying to make is we make a big deal whether a car goes to 60 .5 seconds faster than another when the high end is around six seconds. That's freaking fast, and at between 5.5-6 seconds the differences are miniscule enough to be chalked up to production like variations or more likely, driver skill. They are all fast enough and close enough to make speed comparisons pretty meaningless in the real world. If it is within half a second, call it a draw... and in any event, buy the car you like best even if it is 1/2 a second slower to 60mph.