Hello everybody,

I'm searching the internet for a few days, and untill now unsuccessfully, trying to find an answer to my question: can the RX-8 be converted to use LPG instead of (conventional) fuel? Does anybody has experience with a LPG installation in the RX-8? What kit doe you use? The issue of the (relative) high fuel consumption is my only raison not having signed an order to buy one! You must see, at my average of 25000 km per year, I've calculated a 1500 - 2000 EURO difference in consumption with my current car. So, a LPG installation would mean a payback of approx. 1 year!

Many Thanks for your replies,

Péke,
Belgium

Péke,

Today I went to Prins Autogas in Veldhoven, Holland. They mentionned to me someone got in touch with them re RX8 conversion to LPG. Was it you?

Hello IKnowNot'ing,

it wasn't me! But I did contact Mazda Belgium, and they told me that it would be technically possible but that the change that Mazda would give a "homologation" for LPG is rather small... I will attach their answer later (when my webmail is available again!) Can you tell me what 'Prins Autogas' says concerning my question? Are you interested as well?

Greetings,

Péke

The tank would have to go in the trunk, right?
A large steel pressure tank, mounted behind the axle would disrupt your handling noticeably.....

You realise you will get even LESS kilometres from a litre of LPG vs. gasoline?
......and less maximum power?

Perhaps a diesel volkswagen was more what you wanted?

felix

Péke,

No I do not intend to go LPG on any of my cars for many reasons.

I don't know how rotaries would cope with such a drastic change of fuel.

If you go for it, courageous man, choose a multipoint vapour (like Prins Autogas VSI) or liquid injection (like Vialle LPI).
And let us know!

Hello IKnowNot'ing,

thanks for your reply, it seems that you DO know a fair bit... I will search for some information (and guarantee!!!) on the systems you suggested!

Hello Felix,
a Volkswagen Diesel, never thought of it, but considering...
The higher fuel consumption is according to me irrelevant in comparison with the lower price per liter: 1/3 of gasoline and 1/2 of Diesel! And I'm not such an extreme driver that neither the handling, nor the lower maximum power are important to me.

As promised, I've included the answer of Mazda Belgium to my question (in Dutch):

"De Mazda RX-8 , die met een Renesis-motor is uitgerust, zou gemakkelijk op LPG kunnen rijden. Spijtig genoeg, zijn er nog geen plannen om deze optie te laten homologeren en is de kans vrij klein dat Mazda ooit een LPG-kit voor dit model zal laten ontwikkelen."

So there is still a tiny bit of hope...

Greetings,

Péke

You can contact Roger Konings at Prins Autogas (see website for tel.).
Roger seemed to have tested a RX8 for compatibility with their VSI system. He said it might not work due to the fact the injectors pulse more than once per engine rev, or something similar. Nothing certain though.
Note that my fuel economy improved slightly on the last tank. I just cruised normally, only using high revs for overtakings. I will post my FE figures when I reach 3000 km or so.

Good luck.

There's a German company that installs the ICOM JTG liquid LPG-injection in the Mazda RX-8 HP (231 HP/ 170KW ):

http://www.autogastechnik.net/images/inhalt/icom/icom_mazda_mx-8.html

http://www.autogastechnik.net/images/inhalt/icom/mazda-rx8/2.jpg


In the red circle : the switch that alows you to switch between fuell (gas) and LPG operation and also status-LED's showing on what carburant currently is used .
There are also LED's that indicate the LPG-level in the LPG tank .

http://www.autogastechnik.net/images/inhalt/icom/mazda-rx8/1.jpg

http://www.autogastechnik.net/images/inhalt/icom/mazda-rx8/3.jpg


http://www.autogastechnik.net/images/inhalt/icom/mazda-rx8/4.jpg



http://www.autogastechnik.net/images/inhalt/icom/mazda-rx8/6.jpg

Auf der Leipziger Automobilausstellung (AMI) (http://ami-leipzig.de/) vom 14. bis zum 22.April 2007 präsentierten wir den weltweit ersten MAZDA RX-8 mit Flüssiggasantrieb.

http://www.autogastechnik.net/images/inhalt/icom/mazda-rx8/5.jpg


Die Revolution des Gasmarktes
Das JTG System von icom ist die absolute Neuheit auf dem Markt der Gasanlagen.

Das System der Flüssiggaseinspritzung mit flüssigem Gas hat eine kühlende Wirkung in der Brennkammer und ist durch erhöhte Sauerstoffbindung leistungssteigernd.

Dabei verzichtet das JTG-System völlig auf eine Steuereinheit oder eine programmierbare ECU. Die absolute Kontrolle der Gasanlage liegt bei dem original Motorsteuergerät.



Lediglich ein zeitgesteuertes Relais schaltet die Gasanlage nach 55 Sekunden ein und schaltet das Signal der original Benzin-Einspritzdüsen auf die Gas-Einspritzdüsen.

Warum 55 Sekunden? Mit dieser Zeitspanne wird gesichert, dass das gesamte JTG - System mit flüssigem Flüssiggas gefüllt ist, bzw, dass sich keine Gasbläschen mehr im System befinden. Ist das System nun durch das Starten des Benzinmotors in Bewegung gekommen, spült die Gaspumpe im Tank des Reserverades das gesamte System durch, reinigt dabei das System von übriggeblieben, gasförmigen Gasresten.


Es schaltet dann, unabhängig von der Wettersituation auf Gas um.


Dann fließt das Gas vom Tank zu den Gaseinspritzdüsen und wird dort in die Brennkammern gepumpt. Die Gasmengen, die nicht benötigt wurden, fließen über einen Rücklauf in den Tank zurück.


http://www.autogastechnik.net/images/inhalt/icom/mazda-rx8/motor_196x147.jpg


http://www.autogastechnik.net/images/inhalt/icom-system.jpg

http://www.icomitalia.it/lang1/images/p007_0_01_1.jpg


http://www.icomitalia.it/lang1/imp_jtg.html

http://www.icomitalia.it/lang1/index.html

interesting.... any duel fuel options?

The advantages from a LPG-injection in liquid form versus vapour form are :

-the lquid lpg vaporises like normal fuel and extracts heat from the surrounding , sort of intercooling effect simmilar to the effect of NOS.

-Cools the inside of the engine

-less complicated system (no vaporiser )

-and a major advantage is that the ICOM JTG utilises the factory ECU from the car instead of an aditional LPG-ECU , so all the functions and systems off the original ECU are stayin intact (for example diagnostics by the car dealer )

-on the ICOM JTG-system the in LPG-tank LPG-pump is protected against dry-running ( witch is a weak point on Vialle LPI, witch causes broken LPG-pumps )

-on some cars they make extra power with liquid LPG-injection like ICOM JTG or Vialle LPI , for example : the Belgian LPG-installer Deroover has a Dodge RAm SRT-10 (=Viper-engined) pickup that produces more HP and torque on lpg than on gas .

http://www.lpgderoover.be/wie.php?lang=en

http://users.ugent.be/~fvthuyn/speciale.pdf

interesting.... any duel fuel options?

Yes you can switch between the normal carburant and lpg .

TurboBoost, PM

Saw one at the Nurburgring in October.....nice install...lt seemed to go like normal

English was a little difficult for the owner so I didn't get too many details...looking under the hood you really couldn't see much but the controller..the trunk on the other hand was full of tank :)

Saw one at the Nurburgring in October.....nice install...lt seemed to go like normal

English was a little difficult for the owner so I didn't get too many details...looking under the hood you really couldn't see much but the controller..the trunk on the other hand was full of tank :)


A cilindrical tank or a toroidal tank or smaller diametre dual-cilindrical tanks ?

Is LPG cheaper than regular gas?

Is LPG cheaper than regular gas?

regular gas costs in Belgium at the moment maximum (governement sets the maimum prices , gasstations may offer lower prices ) :

1,123€ / L for super 98(octane) leadfree

1,105€ /L for super 95


0,934€ / L for Diesel


0,390€ / L for LPG (GPL in French) , LPG has a lower energetic rate , for the same performance as regular gas you need 10 to 20% more LPG but who cares , is ridiculously cheap .


The cheapest LPG in Belgium costs 0,258€/L !

A cilindrical tank or a toroidal tank or smaller diametre dual-cilindrical tanks ?


Larger cylindrical tank...

Wow, cheap. How available is LPG in the states?

For anyone that's interested :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6O6GDcEzsK8

these people also do it in tthe UK www.hardysrecovery.co.uk

edit: ^^oh hey thats who did yours isnt it?

It's only cheap because it is a by-product and the market is small - if more people used it the price would equal gasoline.

The refinery I work at sells all their propane and butane to a bottler next door, for less than the cost of crude (they take a loss on it).

I cant say I see them being used terribly often, but LPG pumps are quite common in Belgium Netherlands and Luxembourg. I havent paid attention in France Germany or UK

For anyone that's interested :)

so ............................................. how does it go on gas ? Same power/consumption ?

I wish it were easier to do this in the States.

so ............................................. how does it go on gas ? Same power/consumption ?

I have seen at least half a dozen installs. They all failed after a while of course.
There are 2 reasons behind this:
1) PCM programming. Be it a piggyback module or a stock pcm reprogramming, shops get it wrong.
2) Lubrication. Propane doesn't lubricate like gasoline, and have you ever tried mixing it with oil? I mean, our engines already fail with mobil1 for the very same reason. Make it worse and draw your conclusions.
Surely it doesn't create carbon build-up but still, lack of lubrication is a concern.
It also has a lower power rating. 13-15%.

Good installers often add "lubrication" systems to the valves in otto cycle engines because of the increase in wear, btw.

LPG is a cheap solution for cheap people that will lead to expensive repairs in a Wankel engine.
If gas is a problem go buy a prius, don't kill your car.

so ............................................. how does it go on gas ? Same power/consumption ?

power is slightly less but negligable really. if you need full power you can just switch over to petrol. it's my wife's car mainly and she drives it pretty hard, cruising at 90'ish on runs. she never switches it over to petrol (unless running out of course) i've never worked out the mpg but tend to go by cost. 300 miles for around £60 on LPG as opposed to 220 miles for £75-80 on petrol.

power is slightly less but negligable really. if you need full power you can just switch over to petrol. it's my wife's car mainly and she drives it pretty hard, cruising at 90'ish on runs. she never switches it over to petrol (unless running out of course) i've never worked out the mpg but tend to go by cost. 300 miles for around £60 on LPG as opposed to 220 miles for £75-80 on petrol.

That's the expense of the gas.
Now factor the added engine wear in, maintenance cost of the lpg system etc.
Petrol costs less.
Oh and if you only cover 220 miles with a tank then fuel isn't the problem...

Band aids solutions are getting popular everywhere. I get 450kms out of 47 litres as an average, in the city.

I have seen at least half a dozen installs. They all failed after a while of course.
There are 2 reasons behind this:
1) PCM programming. Be it a piggyback module or a stock pcm reprogramming, shops get it wrong.
2) Lubrication. Propane doesn't lubricate like gasoline, and have you ever tried mixing it with oil? I mean, our engines already fail with mobil1 for the very same reason. Make it worse and draw your conclusions.
Surely it doesn't create carbon build-up but still, lack of lubrication is a concern.
It also has a lower power rating. 13-15%.

Good installers often add "lubrication" systems to the valves in otto cycle engines because of the increase in wear, btw.

LPG is a cheap solution for cheap people that will lead to expensive repairs in a Wankel engine.
If gas is a problem go buy a prius, don't kill your car.

Yeah Yeah Yeah, I've heard it all before from the so called "experts". :wallbash: If LPG is going to kill our engine, how come its covered considerably more miles than many of the engines in U.K. cars? It was compression tested last weekend (@94000 miles) with results weirdly better than it got at 47000 miles. We don't want a Prius or some old diesel shed, we want an RX8 that we can afford to run, and we have it. Don't you dare refer to us as "cheap", if LPG is not for you then fine, no need to be insulting.

We performed regular compression tests on 3 lpg fuelled wankels, for regular I mean every 10.000kms.
We did the same on 3 gas fuelled cars.
Guess why i'm saying what i'm saying...

Engines in the UK fail for many reasons unrelated to the engine itself:
Bad maintenance,
Short trips,
Too many so called "experts" that should be laying bricks for a living instead of building engines or selling parts.

As I said you can convert a wankel to LPG but the fuelling and timing differences are substantial. You either have 2 maps (and you can't unless you turn the car off, reflash it and restart it) or it will run like crap on either of the 2 fuel choices.
LPG is pretty "dry" lubrication wise. It isn't a huge problem in common engines but in our case oil really needs to do its job on the housings. There are engine oils that are detrimental because they don't mix well with fuel and lubricate as they should. Think about "Not mixing at all". Premix is also vital, and for a reason. Try premixing in an lpg tank :)
Considering how lpg is usually sprayed and our engine's characteristic you also add the risk of pinging if the seals aren't in perfect shape.
Will you notice it? probably not.
Spark plugs, did you change them with the install? Not a must but highly advisable.

You could build a long lasting lpg powered wankel but that's not the case with the available commercial solutions and definitely not worth the expense.

We performed regular compression tests on 3 lpg fuelled wankels, for regular I mean every 10.000kms.
We did the same on 3 gas fuelled cars.
Guess why i'm saying what i'm saying...

Engines in the UK fail for many reasons unrelated to the engine itself:
Bad maintenance,
Short trips,
Too many so called "experts" that should be laying bricks for a living instead of building engines or selling parts.

As I said you can convert a wankel to LPG but the fuelling and timing differences are substantial. You either have 2 maps (and you can't unless you turn the car off, reflash it and restart it) or it will run like crap on either of the 2 fuel choices.
LPG is pretty "dry" lubrication wise. It isn't a huge problem in common engines but in our case oil really needs to do its job on the housings. There are engine oils that are detrimental because they don't mix well with fuel and lubricate as they should. Think about "Not mixing at all". Premix is also vital, and for a reason. Try premixing in an lpg tank :)
Considering how lpg is usually sprayed and our engine's characteristic you also add the risk of pinging if the seals aren't in perfect shape.
Will you notice it? probably not.
Spark plugs, did you change them with the install? Not a must but highly advisable.

You could build a long lasting lpg powered wankel but that's not the case with the available commercial solutions and definitely not worth the expense.

worth the expense for us! it covered 35000 miles last year alone. the conversion was paid for in no time. yes, I change the plugs, as I do the coil packs too. the main reason the uk engines fail (other than the reasons you've already mentioned) is due to coil pack failure and the subsequent unburnt fuel washing the oil away, thus killing the engine and cat. this is less of a risk with lpg. some people i've found seem horrified that someone should want to use their rx8 as an everyday car AND be able to afford to run it. as far as i'm concerned. the conversion has fully met our needs. people can tell me it'll do this or it'll do that but in my case, the proof is in the pudding. Nuff said.

You got my point wrong i guess.
I'm not saying it won't run, i'm saying it will run for a shorter period of time, ie last less.
Coils were part of my maintenance reference btw.

You got my point wrong i guess.
I'm not saying it won't run, i'm saying it will run for a shorter period of time, ie last less.
Coils were part of my maintenance reference btw.

No I got your point, I just disagree that it will last less :)

My home's heat and domestic hot water are propane fired. Yes it is a byproduct of gasoline refining but here it used to be more expensive than fuel oil and gasoline until a couple years ago when they started to escalate wildly. I'm paying about $3.25 a gallon for propane on average these days. Propane has less energy than a comparable volume of fuel oil and of course gasoline but burns more efficiently (same for LPG).

It's only cheap because it is a by-product and the market is small - if more people used it the price would equal gasoline.

The refinery I work at sells all their propane and butane to a bottler next door, for less than the cost of crude (they take a loss on it).

. 300 miles for around £60 on LPG as opposed to 220 miles for £75-80 on petrol.

i dont have any comment about any other aspect, but that alone tells me you had something going on to begin with. Your fuel economy went from average* to only 1-2mpg better than I got on petrol(based on cost to drive a certain distance). my only mods were tuning, coils, and removing the cat. I regularly made 26mpg(9l/100km).

*I say average because from what I've seen over the years the average RX-8 gets economy similar to what you saw on petrol. But I've seen NO reason why people get such poor economy other than ignorance(as in not knowing any better, not calling people idiots for that- though they are anyway). There are too many examples I know of where people got similar results as me. And too large a percentage of people complaining about MPG who in short order show they have no clue what they are talking about or how to do basic maintenance.

This car/motor will never get great fuel economy. But it has no problem making 24-26MPG(<10L/100km) highway and low 20's mixed/city

motor is lubrificated by oil..not by petrol, gas

Great read,
thanks

motor is lubrificated by oil..not by petrol, gas

yeah but... :banghead:

phillmans i'm glad you put thet video on youtube...for a long time i search for lpg rx8 instalation and i couldn't find a thing...i only have seen an rx8 on sale in germany wich has lpg combustion.
i guess it only a mit that petrol(benzin, gazoline)has a better burn than gas(lpg)wich they said it has a dry burn...bse50...your car engine is lubrificated with gas...what is oil for?
anyway...it is a soulution for lpg cars.
i have a 626 mazda on lpg for 6 years and i had no problem with it...everybody told me i will broke the engine with gpl...but it is still runing.
my father has a v6 xedos 6 on lpg and is almost power as on petrol and is still working great.
i understand that rx8 has a wankel engine and it is a difrent king of engine...but if philmans said that his rx8 is running ok...i believ him...rx8 engine are breaking off with petrol enyway...i don't think it is a such a risk lpg instalation.
philmans...what is the name of the lpg instalation system? i'm from romania and i don't want to take all the way to england for the lpg conversion install.
put some pictures with the lpg computer...all kit.
a video with you driveing your lpg rx8...maybe you convinced more people that is real ..it is a miracle!:)
we had to be more open minded...i'l put even a ferrari on lpg because 35-40 litre at 100 km is still a lot...and maybe i want to do something else with my money...not on petrol station:)
sorry fr my bad english.
rx8 is a special and superb car...if it has mps engine mazda would sale a lot more than it was.
i love rx8 but it's consume it to big for it's power...and why we had to drive a diesel fiesta every day and rx8 we drive only in weekend or when we gad petrol money:)
it is better to drive rx8 as a avery day car with almost the same cost as a diesel fiesta:)

i guess it only a mit that petrol(benzin, gazoline)has a better burn than gas(lpg)wich they said it has a dry burn...bse50...your car engine is lubrificated with gas...what is oil for?anyway...it is a soulution for lpg cars.
Piston engines have valvetrain problems with lpg systems. That's why the really good manufacturers offer a separate lubrication system. The bolded part clearly explains that you lack the general knowledge on how the wankel works and why it is fundamental for an oil to mix and burn well with the fuel.
i understand that rx8 has a wankel engine and it is a difrent king of engine...but if philmans said that his rx8 is running ok...i believ him...rx8 engine are breaking off with petrol enyway...i don't think it is a such a risk lpg instalation.
philmans...what is the name of the lpg instalation system? i'm from romania and i don't want to take all the way to england for the lpg conversion install.
put some pictures with the lpg computer...all kit.


Philmans only said that his car runs well, he didn't actually tear the engine open and document it. Engines can be running "fine" even when they're working in sub-optimal conditions. They can go for 10,20,30,40,50.000kms but the wear rate will be accelerated.

Piston engines have valvetrain problems with lpg systems. That's why the really good manufacturers offer a separate lubrication system. The bolded part clearly explains that you lack the general knowledge on how the wankel works and why it is fundamental for an oil to mix and burn well with the fuel.

I think what he lacks is difficulty in putting his point across as clearly, english is not his native tongue (for which he apologised). I've had several LPG vehicles in which I have covered high mileages, one for instance being a Renault 25 which I covered 250000 miles in with no issues. David at rotary specialists Rotechniks has covered something along the line of 300000 miles in his Mazda 626 and it keeps on going!

Philmans only said that his car runs well, he didn't actually tear the engine open and document it. Engines can be running "fine" even when they're working in sub-optimal conditions. They can go for 10,20,30,40,50.000kms but the wear rate will be accelerated.

Yeah, so I'm going to strip and document a healthy engine to prove it's okay? :shocking:NOT! I'm happy with the compression test results thanks. Yes they can go for 10,20,30,40,50.000kms, and they can also go for considerably more miles as mine has. I don't know why you are so hell bent on trying to prove why it doesn't work when it clearly does, I'm the one with the car mate, not you!

To clarify the concern: The rotary gets part of its lubrication via oil injected directly into the combustion chamber. No normal 4-stroke piston engine does this. Gasoline and oil do mix. If LPG and oil do not, or are agonists, then apex seal lubrication may be at risk. A rotary will run "just fine" without oil injection ... for a while. Personally, I have no clue if a LPG rotary will or won't work well, but extrapolation from the piston engine experience may be unwise.

Second, the "native" cost of LPG in the USA is not hugely different from gasoline. It is in Europe because the cost of motor fuels there is around 50% tax, making untaxed LPG much more attractive. Diesels are so popular in Europe, not strictly because of their fuel economy, but because diesel fuel (for some unknown reason) is taxed less. (Which drives up the cost of diesel fuel in the USA, 'cause domestic producers can get more by exporting it to Europe.)

Oil, gasoline & lpg are all petroleum products. Different brothers of the same mother. Gas & Oil will mix. Actually, gas will dilute the oil.
The difference between US and Europe is the refining. They use a different process in Europe to get more Diesel fuel when cracking the crude oil during the distillation process.

To clarify the concern: The rotary gets part of its lubrication via oil injected directly into the combustion chamber. No normal 4-stroke piston engine does this. Gasoline and oil do mix. If LPG and oil do not, or are agonists, then apex seal lubrication may be at risk. A rotary will run "just fine" without oil injection ... for a while. Personally, I have no clue if a LPG rotary will or won't work well, but extrapolation from the piston engine experience may be unwise.


Lpg and oil don't mix that well. The wear marks you see are just like the ones you notice on the valvetrains of our piston brothers equipped with older systems.
Of course who spent money on an lpg conversion will vouch for it, just like the shop selling it won't admit the product's limitations.
However I feel like I can talk... i have opened some of these fucking engines and dully noted that lpg is a serious no-go in my book, for a wankel.
You can make it work, it just won't be worth the expense and will hinder the performance with common fuels.

Oil, gasoline & lpg are all petroleum products. Different brothers of the same mother. Gas & Oil will mix. Actually, gas will dilute the oil.
The difference between US and Europe is the refining. They use a different process in Europe to get more Diesel fuel when cracking the crude oil during the distillation process.

The cracking can be slid to favor one product over another, but only to a limited extent. A "natural" spread from a barrel of crude is around 19% diesel, 47% gasoline. With over 50% of new cars in the EU now being diesel as a result of preferential tax treatment, something's gotta (eventually) give. What's giving at the moment is the USA is increasing diesel fuel *exports* to the EU. The EU is outbidding USA domestic consumers.

The point relavent to LPG is that in many cases, and certainly in the case of LPG, what's driving the relative advantages of different fuels is not a technical issue, but of tax/political/social/etc ones.

wankel engines are breaking even when they are running on petrol...in romania rx8 is not going mre than 50000km with original engine...and it cost 5000 de euro to buy a new one...so..if is going to break down on lpg...at least we were driving a cheaper 50000km with ours rx8:)
in romania disel and petrol has the same price 1.5 euro per litre...and lpg is60-70 eurocenti per litre...that way many cars are running on lpg...even cayenne porsches.
i hope that lpg will work fine on rx8.
rx8 hydrogen how is it working?
in romania a guy invent a lpg instalation for disel engines...and for petro engines has invented a simple hidrogen instalation wich reduces the consume with 30%...the car was running with petrol...and water:)

The cracking can be slid to favor one product over another, but only to a limited extent. A "natural" spread from a barrel of crude is around 19% diesel, 47% gasoline. With over 50% of new cars in the EU now being diesel as a result of preferential tax treatment, something's gotta (eventually) give. What's giving at the moment is the USA is increasing diesel fuel *exports* to the EU. The EU is outbidding USA domestic consumers.

The point relavent to LPG is that in many cases, and certainly in the case of LPG, what's driving the relative advantages of different fuels is not a technical issue, but of tax/political/social/etc ones.

I agree, the only reason for this conversion has been the cost savings due to the tax advantages, there would be no other reason for doing it otherwise. And one day the LPG prices here will more than likely match the ripoff prices we are forced to pay for all fuels, hence making LPG conversions uneconomic. Unless of course you frequently visit London where alternative fuel vehicles are exempt from the £8 per day congestion charge! Diesel is actually more expensive here, but the greater economy they offer is what has made them so popular. At one time we were being encouraged to buy diesels as they were being considered more environmentally friendly, and diesel was cheaper. Once they became so much more popular they hiked the price up. I know fuel prices in the U.S.have risen but they still seem dirt cheap to us!

I know that this can only be used as a rough guide, but the fuel savings calculator here http://www.egasuk.com/ can give you an idea of the £ savings. Our RX8 covered 35000 miles last year, LPG prices vary from 68.9 (cheapest) to 83.9 (most expensive i've seen) so i've gone for somewhere in the middle. Giving a saving of over £4K in that year, so more than covering installation costs, and making the RX8 (more) affordable to run.

wankel engines are breaking even when they are running on petrol...in romania rx8 is not going mre than 50000km with original engine...and it cost 5000 de euro to buy a new one...so..if is going to break down on lpg...at least we were driving a cheaper 50000km with ours rx8:)
in romania disel and petrol has the same price 1.5 euro per litre...and lpg is60-70 eurocenti per litre...that way many cars are running on lpg...even cayenne porsches.
i hope that lpg will work fine on rx8.
rx8 hydrogen how is it working?
in romania a guy invent a lpg instalation for disel engines...and for petro engines has invented a simple hidrogen instalation wich reduces the consume with 30%...the car was running with petrol...and water:)

If your engines last less than 50.000km then the users are the problem.

bse50..you are right..the users are the problem...they don't know haw to take care of an rx8!
with 4000 savings...you can buy a new engine every year..:)
what is the name of the lpg kit? what was the price ?

The kit costs a couple of thousand euros.
I'm sending you a pm anyway