You've probably found it already, but Mazda has listed (unconfirmed!) curb weights, and EPA combined mileage.

http://www2.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/rx8/rx8_main_flash.jsp

To be confirmed by June? Hmmmmm...

at that weight, it will have its ass handed to it by the z. i was hoping mazda could have mounted a challenge. maybe it will bring out a mazdaspeed version to trounce the z like the sti is doing to the evo.

"Unconfirmed"?? Add that to the growing list of words, including "targeted" and "provisional", that Mazda has been using as a disclaimer for many of their stats. Why? It's like their engineers are feverishly working on increasing output and reducing weight by production/delivery deadline. Very strange. It reminds me of the "Lisa's Wedding" episode of The Simpsons:

Smithers: Oh Mr. Burns, we'll thaw you out the second they discover the cure for...seventeen stab wounds in the back. How're we doing boys?
Professor: Well, we're up to fifteen!
Group: Yea!!

(^_^)

6-speed is a projected 3,011 lbs, for those who do not want to visit the website and look for the weight figure.

These numbers aren't written in stone. Weight could go up and hp down before the car is finalized. What if it comes out at 3,050 lbs and hp is only 240? It could happen... look at the overstated Miata HP flap of a few years ago.

Evel333, you said it perfectly about these disclaimers. I'm tired of the weasel words, and my skepticism about the RX-8 will not go away. I really want to love this car. But I keep getting the idea that in everyday driving, it isn't going to be or feel any faster than a 220 hp Mazda 6, but with a lot more compromises.

If the weight goes up any more we're gonna end up with a Lincoln.

Evel333, you said it perfectly about these disclaimers. I'm tired of the weasel words, and my skepticism about the RX-8 will not go away. I really want to love this car. But I keep getting the idea that in everyday driving, it isn't going to be or feel any faster than a 220 hp Mazda 6, but with a lot more compromises.

I'm hoping that the reason for the temporary wording is that they don't want the RX-8 and Mazda 6 cars to be so similar. I'm also hoping that the weight is not for the base version but the fat grand tourer.

Originally posted by DonG35Miata
it isn't going to be or feel any faster than a 220 hp Mazda 6, but with a lot more compromises.

actually feb. issue of car and driver puts the 6 cyl. mazda6 at 6.67 sec. 0-60. so the 8 will still be faster and better handling.

Car and Driver also got a 6.1 time for an rsx-s. :eek:

also i shhould mention, thogh of topic, they compared the 6cyl mazda6 with the 6cyl. jetta and altima. they picked the 6 over the other two and called the interior something like "a step" above the others.

Hate to say I told you guys, but, I told you guys.

The Z is gonna stomp this car performance wise. With that said, I'm getting an 8. Why? Because this will be my daily driver, and the 8 will be fun to drive while at the same time achieving a level of practicality that no sports car currently on the market for under 30K can achieve.

For those of you fixated on 1/4 mile times, I say wait for the rx-7, or buy a Z.

Originally posted by ToRX-8orToZ
Hate to say I told you guys, but, I told you guys.

The Z is gonna stomp this car performance wise. With that said, I'm getting an 8. Why? Because this will be my daily driver, and the 8 will be fun to drive while at the same time achieving a level of practicality that no sports car currently on the market for under 30K can achieve.

For those of you fixated on 1/4 mile times, I say wait for the rx-7, or buy a Z. Z will beat the RX-8 in a straight line, and I believe it will beat it with a good edge.

HOWEVER, when it comes to handling and agility I think the RX-8 will romp the Z. Lighter weight, and in the right places (centered in this car, as much as it can be), do wonders for handling instead of the bulky imbalanced Z.

Performance is what you want it to be a measure of.. if it's pure power/speed then the Z might fit your bill, but for me it's handling with an ADEQUATE AMOUNT of power, and the RX-8 does just that.

The handling on the RX-8 will be one of the raasons I'm buying it, but mostly for price/practicality. The Z will fail in handling (in my opinion) to the RX-8, loses on price and practicality as well.. so the 8 is an easy choice.

Don't make blanket statements like 'performance' because it doesn't mean straight line times to everybody.

What are you talking about? Good and bad handling is a subjective concept. What isnt a subjective concept is how fast a car does a lap around a track, and THAT is what I mean by performance. You guys just won't let go, will you. The Z is gonna trounce the 8 around the vast majority of tracks... thats what I call better performance.

If you're looking for a Z beater, this is not the car for you.

One thing to keep in mind when one is making blanket statements about how the RX8 will stomp the Z in handling is that although the RX8 will probably handle better, the Z is not going to handle like crap. It wasn't built just for people who wanted power. It will handle better than probably >90% of the cars on the road also and is good enough that most people who drive it will never hit it's limits. But they will probably more easily find a time to test the acceleration on the highway or just to pass someone somewhere. That said, I can't own a Z. I don't like the looks of it and it's too heavy for me.

One can also say then that the RX7 is no good either because the RX8 is supposedly better handling although less power. Personally, I would take a 7 over the 8 (if it was reliable).

Originally posted by Hercules
Z will beat the RX-8 in a straight line, and I believe it will beat it with a good edge.

HOWEVER, when it comes to handling and agility I think the RX-8 will romp the Z. Lighter weight, and in the right places (centered in this car, as much as it can be), do wonders for handling instead of the bulky imbalanced Z.

Performance is what you want it to be a measure of.. if it's pure power/speed then the Z might fit your bill, but for me it's handling with an ADEQUATE AMOUNT of power, and the RX-8 does just that.

The handling on the RX-8 will be one of the raasons I'm buying it, but mostly for price/practicality. The Z will fail in handling (in my opinion) to the RX-8, loses on price and practicality as well.. so the 8 is an easy choice.

Don't make blanket statements like 'performance' because it doesn't mean straight line times to everybody.

I swear it's like talking to a wall. Please explain to me how good and bad handling is a subjective concept. Is that like saying good and bad acceleration is a subjective concept?

I tell ya what, you seem to be one of the only people focused on this Z beater philosophy and you're right, this probably isn't the car for you. I doubt most of the people (reasonable ones anyhow) aren't aiming for a 4 door 4 seater 249 provisional hp car to humiliate a 287hp torquey 350z around every bend and straightaway.

If laptimes are all that matter to you, you're probably better off with something like a corvette, or heck, buy a 97 supra and spend the money you save on a turbo and some new shocks. Almost guaranteed to torch any 350z you come up to.

Originally posted by ToRX-8orToZ
What are you talking about? Good and bad handling is a subjective concept. What isnt a subjective concept is how fast a car does a lap around a track, and THAT is what I mean by performance. You guys just won't let go, will you. The Z is gonna trounce the 8 around the vast majority of tracks... thats what I call better performance.

If you're looking for a Z beater, this is not the car for you.


I agree with you. I think some are over reacting to criticism of the car. I think partly it's because Mazda is marketing the car as a 'sports car' that can seat 4 people. The car seems more like competition for a sports sedan/coupe market that handles like a sports car, not the other way around. I think that this is the reason some of us are a little disappointed right now. We expected a sports car with sports car performance and it realistically isn't up to our expectations taht we formed from hearing Mazda's marketing spiel and from the 3rd gen RX7 performance. I really thought that this car would come out and be at least equal to it in everyway. It doesn't make it a bad car for what it really is, but it isn't what everyone is looking for. Just like some people want a G35 coupe, but some people think it's too cushy, 'not a true sports car' and have to have a Z. I am thinking that the RX8 is more like the G35 than the Z in terms of 'type' of car, and hopefully a 'real' sportscar will come out sometime.
I still want to see in it real life though. Who knows, maybe it will win me over. A friend of mine who I never thought in a million years would own a Honda, bought an S2000 after driving a friend's around the track. So anything is possible. And if I don't think it's everything that I want, then maybe it can be the wife's car! I wouldn't mind an RX8 and a future RX7 in the garage.

First up Iefuton, read through a thread before throwing in your 2 cents.

I love the 8. I will buy an 8. What I dislike are dilusional concepts over what this car will be, performance wise. Why? Because its only setting up the car for a disapointing release.

Handling is indeed a relative concept. Why? Because not everyone has the same skills, nor does everyone drive in a similar style. Why do drifters prefer rear wheel drive vehicles to all wheel drive cars? Duh. Believe it or not, some people who hang around tracks prefer some SLIGHT understeer.

When I say performance, I mean one thing.... the general ability of a car to get around a track quickly. The Z is going to romp the 8 at just about every track in the country. In my mind, that means the car is better "performance wise". Don't believe me? That's ok, we can just wait for Car&Driver to run some comparison lap times (I'm sure they will compare the 8, Z, and S2k before the year is up).

Does this mean the 8 is a poor performance car? No. But we should all realize that this is a "compromise" sort of design; don't build it up to be something it isnt so you can tear it down when it doesnt meet your expectations.

guess we stand in agreement then, regarding:

What I dislike are dilusional concepts over what this car will be, performance wise. Why? Because its only setting up the car for a disapointing release.

sorry bout the edit, hit submit accidentally =p

at that weight, it will have its ass handed to it by the z. i was hoping mazda could have mounted a challenge. maybe it will bring out a mazdaspeed version to trounce the z like the sti is doing to the evo.

I think Mazda will mount a challenge and win... with the next RX-7.


The RX-8 is not in the same class as the Z, from a marketing point of view. It is a four seater. What car has has 4 seats, 4 doors, manual tranny and has options like DSC and NAV? (eg. IS300, G35 Coupe)

I think we will be surprised witht the weight numbers. Charlie Hughes, stood on his PULPIT @ SEVENSTOCK and decreed a weight of 2900lbs. to which the crowd fervently responded with an "AMEN"- he was very, i mean very confident in his numbers- we could be surprised.

He decreed on that faithfull day a price of 26,000 dollars- a max of 33,000- to which mazda delivered a price of 25,180- AGAIN the people rejoiced!

Remember project "gram force" to which the engineers took an entire car a part and saved grams off of every part-to save a toale of 100's of pounds- they are probably in the midst of this right now.

Mazda has always delivered exceptionally lighter cars to offset or entirely negate the differences and HP advantages that other manufacturers had.

LETS all WAIT for the final testing numbers to come in. THE comparison btwn, the z and the 8 will happen with SEVERAL magazines and I suspect the 8 will come out RIGHTOUS!

Also I love innovation. That is what I really believe the RX8 is about. Engine too big ? Design a rotary ! Door too small ? Put another one in ! B pillar in the way ? Get rid of it , make the rear door suicide !

there's another reason i like this car.

I have to laugh at the comment that the Z will romp the 8 on the track... it's just sad you believe that.

Let's start small first.. autocross. There are Mazda Miatas with 140 horsepower that will beat people in much more powerful cars. Granted there's a reason for this.. the autocrossing generally doesn't pass fourth gear and the more nimble the car the better in that regard. Miata is lightweight, very good handling stock, that will romp most cars out there, just because of its characteristics.

But you want a regular track... let's say Laguna Seca shall we?

Regular tracks make use of high gears and high RPMs. Agility is key but so is power, especially in the upper gears. Now I don't know how you say that the Z will be 'wooping' on the RX-8 when the Z's torque plummets after 4800 (its max). By 6000RPMs the RX-8 is ahead of the Z's torque.

This would make for an interesting matchup on a track, and in my mind a very close race. I don't think the Z is going to woop the RX-8 but if it wins, it won't be by much. And personally I'm okay with that.

We need to really stop comparing the 350Z and the RX-8. People that are looking into the RX-8 are not going to cross shop (for the most part) the 350Z, unless they are just rich and want what looks good and have no intention of ever going near a track.

G35, 330, IS300, Audi A4... these are the cars the RX-8 will probably compete against. Not the 350Z. We just need to get over that.

Originally posted by Hercules
We need to really stop comparing the 350Z and the RX-8. People that are looking into the RX-8 are not going to cross shop (for the most part) the 350Z, unless they are just rich and want what looks good and have no intention of ever going near a track.

G35, 330, IS300, Audi A4... these are the cars the RX-8 will probably compete against. Not the 350Z. We just need to get over that.

I dont think that is completely true. In fact, many people I know have looked at these two cars (and others) before deciding. Granted, you can say that the two cars just too different to be compared and thus are in different markets, BUT keep in mind this car is called the RX-8. RX to many people means performance as does the Z Nissan uses. Personally I think its stupid to compare the two cars, but the reality is, imo, that comparisons will be done. (maybe that is what you meant by "for the most part"?)

Also, what do you mean by "they are just rich"? The ability to get a Z or 8 does not mean you are rich. Ironically these cars are about performance on buget (i.e. original Z, rx-7 vs. more expensive cars). The fact that the stock FD could beat or match other cars and still be less expensive is impressive. To me, that is a big part of the RX series' appeal (that and its rotary).

If you are going to talk the talk.you have to walk the walk...mazda is marketing this as a "sports car..that happens to sit 4 people"..thus it is completely fair to compare it with similarly priced sports cars.

If you insist on comparing it to sports sedans...then you have to consider the rally cars...evo...sti..and WRX.....regardingthe first two... there is no comparison from an objective performance standpoint....the latter..I think the RX8 should win (it better being some ~ $5K higher in price).

BTW..I have noticed Mazda marketing their sporty family sedan (Mazda 6)..as a sports sedan.....could the same thing be happenning with the RX8?

If this thing comes in over 3,000 lbs., it will really take away from the inherent advantages of a rotary. As has been stated repeatedly, a high-reving. moderate - peak torque engine of the RX8 is best suited for lightweight sports cars. At 3,000+ lb..its going to not be far off from the 3,085 lb. turbo AWD WRX (which is a mass produced car). Again, just how much weight was put on from adding suicide doors and the related bracing? Hell, most sports sedans offer 2 door versions! For a sports car, I see little sense in this, especially since the front passengers still have to get out of the car to let the rear pasengers out.

I've waited 2 years for this car (putting off a new car purchase and driving my old 93 escort) with the impression of sports car performance, and anything less would be a huge dissappointment. I can accept it not being the fastest car in this group, but it should be competitive in terms of acceleration and dominant in handling. So far, the dominant handling has not been demonstrated. Rather, it is based on Mazda's great reputation. However, past history has also shown compromise cars..tend to give up performance (including handling).

At this point I'm looking at a base 6 speed...and hoping it will be significantly lighter than the other models with the "goodies." Again, I hope I'm completely wrong so I can have the car I've been waiting for!

Here is an interesting article for you guys.

http://www.autoweek.com/cat_print.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=coverstory&loc_code=index&content_code=09787582&1351529848

Originally posted by ToRX-8orToZ
Here is an interesting article for you guys.

http://www.autoweek.com/cat_print.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=coverstory&loc_code=index&content_code=09787582&1351529848 We've all read it. I don't see what you want to point out.

Originally posted by revhappy
At this point I'm looking at a base 6 speed...and hoping it will be significantly lighter than the other models with the "goodies." Again, I hope I'm completely wrong so I can have the car I've been waiting for! Per rotary news:
"Know this however, this car has impressed two hard core rotorheads. This is a rotary sports car, while not a replacement for the raw FD3S RX-7, it is a refined, well tuned, predictable car, that it it's soul is a rotary."

If two Roto heads who have actually driven the car are giving it thumbs up, we can all calm down a little.

"Can't we all just get along"

*PUTS FLAME RETARDENT SUIT ON*

Originally posted by Puppy1
"Can't we just all get along"

*PUTS FLAME RETARDENT SUIT ON*

NO!!!! We need to see NUMBERS BECAUSE THATS WHAT MAKES A CAR GOOD!

I will wait for the 300+HP MazdaSpeed Version...

refined, well tuned, predictable car

Hate to bring this up, but it sounds like more damning with faint praise.:(

Those aren't the adjectives I wanted to hear. How about "exciting"? "Thrilling?" "Dynamic?" "sharp-handling?" "Must-have car of 2003?"

Their enthusiasm seemed quite contained. Sure, it is not an FD, but they could have said, "It's not an FD, but exciting in its own way..." or "It's not an FD, but it is a blast to drive..."

I look forward to the full review, but nothing was said here to alleviate my concerns about the driving character of the car. If anything, they moved me towards confirmation of them.

Don, if he wrote all the juicy details in the blurb people would start making up all kinds of ideas in their head and out loud bout the car..

Oh wait, you alreadi did that :p

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hercules
[B]I have to laugh at the comment that the Z will romp the 8 on the track... it's just sad you believe that.




Hey Herc I'm with you. It's funny how performance wise the current 350z is no match for a stock 93-95 3rd gen Rx7 (or a 99-02 version for that matter) but yet somehow the 350z is suppose to miraculously out perform the Rx8. Lets see, the Rx8 has the fondation to be the SUPREME performer. The 350Z has all of these attributes: perfect 50/50 balance, light weight, high reving rotary with a nearly flat torque curve. "Oh damn I must be lossing my mind, those are the attributes of the Rx8" Ha ha ha. Any ways the only advantage the Z will have is acceleration(and we all know thats only a small segment when it comes to overall performance). Other than that the Z would be toast. As far as that statment about a magazine test goes, the Z guys better hope they dont compare the two at the track because, I would hate to see the 350Z tuck it's tall in between its legs and take it's ass to the house in humilitation!

Originally posted by Hercules
We need to really stop comparing the 350Z and the RX-8...

When did the RX-8 become so holier-than-thou that it can’t be compare against certain cars? Which car you choose is wholly dependent on your priority and circumstances. And why wouldn’t people cross-shop against 350Z? Both are similarly price and both aspire to be sport car.

The 350Z and RX-8 are right on top of my list. I like the power of 350Z, but love the styling of RX-8. The 350Z’s high shoulder line and limited visibility left me feeling disconnected from the road. So for now, I choose the RX-8. But I will reserve my final judgment when I can test drive both back to back.

As for comparing both cars on a road circuit, it’s not simple as it seems. Unless the same driver drives both cars on the same track, it’s hard to take a number and equate it to performance. Even then, it’s just for bragging right nothing more. In the end, the driver skill level and experience will matter most.

Originally posted by Good Duck


When did the RX-8 become so holier-than-thou that it can’t be compare against certain cars? Which car you choose is wholly dependent on your priority and circumstances. And why wouldn’t people cross-shop against 350Z? Both are similarly price and both aspire to be sport car.

The 350Z and RX-8 are right on top of my list. I like the power of 350Z, but love the styling of RX-8. The 350Z’s high shoulder line and limited visibility left me feeling disconnected from the road. So for now, I choose the RX-8. But I will reserve my final judgment when I can test drive both back to back.

As for comparing both cars on a road circuit, it’s not simple as it seems. Unless the same driver drives both cars on the same track, it’s hard to take a number and equate it to performance. Even then, it’s just for bragging right nothing more. In the end, the driver skill level and experience will matter most. I agree, but the RX-8 is a 4 seater and not a 2, thus GENERALLY cross shopping wouldn't happen.

But either way you are correct, it's every bit (packaging, handling, power, feedback, etc) that make the car, not just one aspect.

That said, I think the RX-8 is a better car for the money. We'll see in time though.

When that time comes... still seems so far away :( . I want my 8 :D .

The discussion of where the 8 will rank in the general pecking order of cars will continue long after it is finally released. What ever the final version turns out to be, I'm keeping my expectations low, just in case, so I'm not disappointed. I want to enjoy the car as total package, even if she'll be a jack of all trades and master of none. If I want to make her faster, I'll make her faster--surely, the big aftermarket companies in Japan are readying, if not finalizing, designs for upgrades to the 8.

This is a stretched comparison: but while the 8 may not pack the high power numbers as some others, having a vehicle with a lack of power has never stopped people from getting say--a Civic--and trying to make IT go fast, although at $30K+ I do understand the arguement why the 8 should get just a little bit more zoom. (^_^)

Originally posted by Hercules
I agree, but the RX-8 is a 4 seater and not a 2, thus GENERALLY cross shopping wouldn't happen.

I also don't think this view is correct. Sure the RX-8 is a 4 seater, but I seriously doubt that anyone who needs to haul around 3 other people everyday will find the RX-8 adequate. It has less room than a BMW 3-series and from my experience that's a tight fit. (Maybe I'm just too tall :) )

I'm maried and have no kids and, like many other somewhat settled people out there, already have a "practical" car. (We have a Protege5 that's stuffed to its gills about every two weeks.) What we want now is a small sporty car. We've considered a Miata, FD RX-7, 350Z, S2000, and of course the RX-8. I prefer coupes, don't like to portliness of the 350Z or the reliability issues of the FD. That leaves the RX-8 (even without considering my unhealthy obsession with this car ;) )

I think more people are going to cross-shop than Mazda wants to acknowledge.

Originally posted by StephenF


I also don't think this view is correct. Sure the RX-8 is a 4 seater, but I seriously doubt that anyone who needs to haul around 3 other people everyday will find the RX-8 adequate. It has less room than a BMW 3-series and from my experience that's a tight fit. (Maybe I'm just too tall :) )

I'm maried and have no kids and, like many other somewhat settled people out there, already have a "practical" car. (We have a Protege5 that's stuffed to its gills about every two weeks.) What we want now is a small sporty car. We've considered a Miata, FD RX-7, 350Z, S2000, and of course the RX-8. I prefer coupes, don't like to portliness of the 350Z or the reliability issues of the FD. That leaves the RX-8 (even without considering my unhealthy obsession with this car ;) )

I think more people are going to cross-shop than Mazda wants to acknowledge. I would like to say that this much, that the RX-8 is only smaller than the 330Ci ON PAPER. Getting into the car you'll find a big difference, because the rear passengers put their feet underneath the front seats, and the front seats are elevated for that purpose.

I think it will take time, but read the articles that came out today from the UK and you'll know what I have already suspected for some time... the RX-8 will be worth every dime, and be thrilling to drive for any adventure or trip you want to take :)

I hope the seat isn't too elevated...I hate high driving positions..my father's focus feels like a truck cause you sit so high!

One thing to keep in mind is that none of us, including folks at MNAO have actually seen a true, final actual regular production based RX-8.
Words like "provisional" are used for this reason. Also, with a continuing campaign to reduce weight, but without compromise, the weight will not be going up from3011 and "might" be alittle less.
Same with HP although I think were seeing what could be close to final in this department.

I think the RX-8 is, to its detriment, being compared to the wrong cars. Comparing the RX-8 to the Z doesn't make sense. The Z is a 2-seat sports car. The 8 is a 4-seat, 4-door (sort of) sports coupe. The Nissan the 8 really SHOULD be compared to is the Infinity G35. The G35 is basically a stretched Z with back seats added. In that case, the 8 compares very favorably.

Do yourselves and the RX-8 a favor and compare it to the right cars. If you want a REAL sports car, something to take on the Z and maybe even a Vette or two, wait for the RX-7. If, on the other hand, you're in the market for a G35 or an RSX, you would do well to give the RX-8 a spin.

Originally posted by Schneegz
I think the RX-8 is, to its detriment, being compared to the wrong cars.

Do yourselves and the RX-8 a favor and compare it to the right cars.

Unfortunately, it's not that simple. The RX-8 is on the line (at least to me) between a sports car and a sports coupe. If you're in the market for a sports coupe, you compare it to the RSX, G35 Coupe, etc. If, however, you are in the market for a sports car (like me), it gets compared to other sports cars like the 350Z, S2000, etc.

Fortunately, I think the RX-8 will hold up well in either of these categories so I say: Compare away!

As far as the targeted weight, hp, etc, there are reasons Mazda, and other manufacturer's do this. To cover their butts.

In just the last couple years there have been problems from various manufacturers. Nissan has been the biggest culprit. When the new Q45 came out, I believe they advertised 345hp. After the car was released, it was tested several times against the Lexus LS430, a heavier car, with less aggressive gearing and 290hp, if I'm not mistaken. The Lexus was faster accelerating every time, by a rather large margin. In addition, most mags get times faster than manufacturer's claims, but not one single test was able to best the 5.9S 0-60 claim Infiniti was giving. What it came down to, the Infiniti was not making the claimed hp.

Then the SE-R came out. Was supposed to have 180hp, was lowered to 175 because Nissan didn't want the same problems they had with the Q. Most people say this car still isn't putting out 175 hp.

Ford. A few years back claimed a stated hp on their SVT Cobras. Turns out every one was made with ~20 fewer horsepower than claimed. Ford fixed every one to make claimed power, discontinued the Cobra for a year to fix it, and lost face.

Mazda. The 2001 redesign of the Miata added VVT to the 1.8L engine. Mazda did their tests on engines without CA emissions on it. 155hp is what came out. But at the last minute Mazda decided that every car they sell in the US will be 50 state legal, so they added the required CA emissions, which dropped the hp down to 142hp. Thing is they never remembered to retest the engine until after they claimed 155hp. People knew what was up. A car with a supposed extra 15hp and better top end because of VVT was running the EXACT same times as the 140hp car had. Mazda admitted the problem, offered to either buy back the cars for full refund price, or offer owners $500 plus some kind of extended warranty/service plan. Ouch.

So, now, they cover their butts. What they have listed there is probably what it will end up coming with, but just incase it is higher or lower, they add targeted just so these problems don't arise. For instance on the Mazda6, their target on the 2.3L I4 engine was 150hp, the car actually arrived with 160hp. Good, higher than expected. So who knows, maybe weight will be dropped and hp will up to 255. Ya never know.

Lastly, nothing like comparing how a car drives, accelerates, brakes, handles, feels, smells, etc when not a single person on this board (except maybe dan from rotarynews) has driven the RX-8, and even then it isn't final spec. I just wish all the Z bashing would end. I wish the RX-8 bashing would end. Everything right now is pure speculation, and it seems silly to argue over things that nobody has any experience with. Soon enough there'll be tests, then maybe we can start arguing about speed, handling etc. As soon as we drive them, then maybe we can argue about how a car "feels". But I don't think we should go saying a 8 can or can't do this, or that a Z is a pig who handles like a tank. We don't know and it's not true. The Z is a darn fine automobile, and better than most any car out there.

Boowana,
What do you mean by saying that no one at MNAO has seen the production version of the 8? I would think that by now the production version of the 8 would be out do to EPA, Crash Testing, and all the other regulations the 8 would have to go through in order to be approved for the American market. Especially since manufacturing is supposed to begin in April right.

Herc.
I think the 8 even though it has 4 doors is very cramped to be a true 4 seater. I was not very comfortable in the back seat. One of the main problems being that the center counsol takes up a considerable amount of room in the back so even though the space in the rear may look like its as room as the 330 I'm sure its not. Your movement is definetly restricted. Which would be great for kids though you could keep them separated and from kicking and hitting each other very well. HEHE.

To each his own fritts.. I haven't sat in the car yet so I don't know.. but if you've sat in the back of a 330Ci (COUPE!!), then the room there is VERY stuffy. I think the RX-8 will be better than that, if not similar.

I don't know why people don't think the RX8 is being cross shopped with cars like the Z? I know I am. And I know 2 other friends that are. We are all considering the RX8, Z, G35 coupe and S2000. None of us are locked into only a 2 seater or coupe/convertible. And we are kinda seeing the RX8 as similar to a 2+2 coupe anyway. We're just seeing what we end up thinking is the best car in the price range for us and what will 'grab' us during the test drives/appearance. So far we are each favoring different cars, but still wouldn't mind owning any of them.

I would agree with you on that. I too was cross shopping untill I found out how much the 350Z weighed and how small and cramped the S2000 was.

Someone made a comment about the Rx8 going into production in April! If thats the case, whats Mazda's process for these next 2 months? I mean they already have numerous Rx8 's roaming around California. Whats the holdup?

does anyone have any comments on the 04' wrx sti?

I'm deciding between dat and the 8....

0-60 in 4.7 sec and 1/4 mile in 13.4..

I'd say the STI is best bang for buck

Based on specs I can see why some people would compare the wrx with the RX-8 but to me they are very different. I see the wrx as a rally car and the RX-8 as a sports (or sporty) car. I personally am just not into the feel of a rally car so the wrx is not an option.

Originally posted by xkpbreaker
does anyone have any comments on the 04' wrx sti?


I also had considered the STi. The 2.5L turbo will certainly be a beast. It will probably be the fastest straight-line car for the money. I believe though, the RX-8 will out handle it.

The major reason why I crossed the STi off my list was its look. I never got over the bug-eyes WRX; the rear end was even worse. For '04, they just changed the headlight. Not a big improvement. In my eyes, the RX-8 beat the STi in look and styling in spades. To me, the RX-8 is the more rounded package. It's a great blends of performance, utility, and styling. Plus, rotary rules!

But if you love pig that fly, then the STi got your number.

Originally posted by Good Duck
But if you love pig that fly, then the STi got your number.

Flying pigs? LOL :D :D :p Seriously the WRX STi came as a big surprise with it's 2.5L turbo. I wonder how the new EVO will do because of this. I read something that Subaru has released the major specs but not the price. Does anyone know what the price of the Sti will be?

Brian

does anyone have any comments on the 04' wrx sti?

My son just bought an 03 yesterday. We had a big argument about RX8 vs WRX. It came down to IMHO the Subaru is one UGLY-ass car. The 04 is different though so maybe it'll be a little better looking "square box".

If you are going to race then worry about splitting seconds and MPH, if not then style, looks, and performance declare the RX8 the winner...IMHO

No price or weight released on the 2.5L STi. Subaru claims they will not release price until late April.

Originally posted by T-von
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hercules
[B]I have to laugh at the comment that the Z will romp the 8 on the track... it's just sad you believe that.




Hey Herc I'm with you. It's funny how performance wise the current 350z is no match for a stock 93-95 3rd gen Rx7 (or a 99-02 version for that matter) but yet somehow the 350z is suppose to miraculously out perform the Rx8. Lets see, the Rx8 has the fondation to be the SUPREME performer. The 350Z has all of these attributes: perfect 50/50 balance, light weight, high reving rotary with a nearly flat torque curve. "Oh damn I must be lossing my mind, those are the attributes of the Rx8" Ha ha ha. Any ways the only advantage the Z will have is acceleration(and we all know thats only a small segment when it comes to overall performance). Other than that the Z would be toast. As far as that statment about a magazine test goes, the Z guys better hope they dont compare the two at the track because, I would hate to see the 350Z tuck it's tall in between its legs and take it's ass to the house in humilitation!
I think you are forgetting that the Z runs at the track right with all the s2k's and the boxter s's. The Z is by no means a tank, and the 8 isn't even out yet. Who knows if the 8 will handle better than the Z? I don't mind; i not one of those "my car is better than yours, na, na, na, na" people". But i think it's premature for you to say that the 8 will handle better than the Z when the Z is an excellent handeler and the 8 doesnt even have a for-sure curb weight yet. I'm not pointing fingers here; i like both cars. But you just made youself sound pretty bad with your last post.

if anyone wants to read more of my opinion. please read Jerome81's post, as he said pretty much everything that was on my mind.

for those of you who kept on bashing the Z, have you ever driven one? all you saying is it's fat and heavy, but that doesn't mean it can't handle with the best of them. if you read some mags and reviews (if you never driven one), 350Z has very good handling, power, and over all performance for the money. it's the best car for the money in it's class. in many tests and reviews shown that it can run with the top dogs like Boxters, S2ks, and others.
i have nothing against the 8, it's a good looking car and "should" have very good performance. however, dont make "assumptions" such as "it will outhandle anything" and all that crap when you dont even know the exact weight and power of the car.
finally, like many have said, if the 8 is more than 3000lbs, then it prob wont perform as well as we all think with the "provisional" power given by miata. and one thing i dont understand is that if you want a light lil car with good power/performance and great handling, why not get a S2K (it has only 2810 lb) ? it's one of the best (if not the best) handling cars on the market. i would think RX8 at best will be similar to a S2k with a 8500 to 9000 red line, and small tourq High reving.

p.s. now, only time will tell what's best for the money. but if i have to pick one rightnow, my vote will go to the Z!!!

Then go to the 350Z message boards. This board is for the RX-8.

First of all, I *have* driven a 350Z (my friend is a Nissan dealer and is quite taken with the car, so I got to toy around with it for a bit). And if you compare the 350Z to say... a Miata as per handling, I'd take the Miata. The front nose dips on turns (ala the severe programmed in understeer), too much gas on exit corner *will* spin you out. However I will say that without DSC there's no fault of the driver (partially but) in that spinout, but moreso in the car as there isn't technology that allows for people to control it more easily.

The interior is not great, brittle plastics thruout EXCEPT the seats... damn I love them :)

The reason MOST of us want the RX-8 is because it blends the practicality of a sedan with the handling of a Boxster, Miata, or S2000.

If you want the power with 'okay' handling, the 350Z is great. If you want the power and the handling, you get the Boxster. If you want so-so power with great handling you get a S2000 or Miata.

And for all the choices that don't fit, you get the RX-8.

While the 350Z may be at the top of your list, it's not at the top of ours because it is missing TWO KEY ELEMENTS that would prevent most of us from getting it. That, and Nissan's got a nose-heavy car with a lot of understeer and as per most reports on the RX-8.. it doesn't suffer from the same woes.

To each his own, I'll take the RX-8 and enjoy it just as the next guy may take the 350Z. It's your money and you're entitled to do whatever you like -- but your comments show you know little about the 8. You equate power and handling as if they were equally important. They are both important, but some people love the handling moreso than power (which is why some get automatics in the 8), and some enjoy a good dose of power. I prefer balance of both. The 8 will give me that, the Z will not. And I'll save 3 grand, get two seats, a bigger trunk and as I should hope... a much better handling car.

The 350Z can keep its 5.4 second 0-60 time, while I am more than happy with my 6 seconds.

Originally posted by Hercules
Then go to the 350Z message boards. This board is for the RX-8.

First of all, I *have* driven a 350Z (my friend is a Nissan dealer and is quite taken with the car, so I got to toy around with it for a bit). And if you compare the 350Z to say... a Miata as per handling, I'd take the Miata. The front nose dips on turns (ala the severe programmed in understeer), too much gas on exit corner *will* spin you out. However I will say that without DSC there's no fault of the driver (partially but) in that spinout, but moreso in the car as there isn't technology that allows for people to control it more easily.



Any car will make you spin out, if you push too much through a corner. Think a Ferrari, with all the traction control turned off, won't spin out on a corner?

Maybe you're saying that the lesser engine power better matches the chassis? So the turbo charged miatas that can peel out are no longer "great handling" vehicles, because throttling it through a corner can now cause spin outs?

Spinning out in corners doesn't mean lack of handling. I means lack of driver/throttle control....(aka pushing a car beyond it's limits) A miata (generally) doesn't have enough power to spin out....



To each his own, I'll take the RX-8 and enjoy it just as the next guy may take the 350Z. It's your money and you're entitled to do whatever you like -- but your comments show you know little about the 8.



As for someone who just claimed that the rear seats of the RX-8 will feel bigger than the BMW, but having never sat in the RX-8, I don't think you're allowed to make such comments to other people.

Originally posted by threeputtwash


Any car will make you spin out, if you push too much through a corner. Think a Ferrari, with all the traction control turned off, won't spin out on a corner?

Maybe you're saying that the lesser engine power better matches the chassis? So the turbo charged miatas that can peel out are no longer "great handling" vehicles, because throttling it through a corner can now cause spin outs?

Spinning out in corners doesn't mean lack of handling. I means lack of driver/throttle control....(aka pushing a car beyond it's limits) A miata (generally) doesn't have enough power to spin out....



As for someone who just claimed that the rear seats of the RX-8 will feel bigger than the BMW, but having never sat in the RX-8, I don't think you're allowed to make such comments to other people.
To reply to the 'spinning out', I already made msyelf clear. You can do it in a Miata if you're so inclined, I just thought that when you're paying upwards of 35k for a 350Z they could throw in a stability system that prevents from kicking out the rear end, that's all. Unfortunately their stability control allows for more kickout on the tail and if that's intentional it's fine, but I think that it's a good idea with the safety control to be on, that it should actually be safe.

As per the second part, I merely mentioned the sizes of the leg room available in the 330 and other models compared to what is offered in the RX-8. I also mentioned that in the RX-8 that people's feet would fit underneath the front seats, unlike many other cars. Based on numbers, yes I did say that the comparision is good to make. Never once did I say that the rear seats of the RX-8 will feel bigger than the BMW.

I'd challenge you to find that post.

Originally posted by Hercules

To reply to the 'spinning out', I already made msyelf clear. You can do it in a Miata if you're so inclined, I just thought that when you're paying upwards of 35k for a 350Z they could throw in a stability system that prevents from kicking out the rear end, that's all. Unfortunately their stability control allows for more kickout on the tail and if that's intentional it's fine, but I think that it's a good idea with the safety control to be on, that it should actually be safe..

Maybe people should just learn how to drive a RWD car. Not many cars have a system prevents all chances of kickign the rear end out. But then again, why would you want that?

I think we should put this thread to death... :eek:

-Stephen

Originally posted by TJZ


Maybe people should just learn how to drive a RWD car. Not many cars have a system prevents all chances of kickign the rear end out. But then again, why would you want that? I agree, in fact I have a lot of brushing up to do myself and I'll be taking a driving course to re-acquaint myself properly.

However, a DSC system should not allow a car to kick out the rear end just as a safety feature... that's why it's there. The fact the 350Z does allow for a tail kick out with the DSC on, doesn't say much is all. With it off, yea let me kick that bastard out :)

But if you want to have a total tail kickout car, then just keep turning it off or order the car w/o it :) But the two extremes, with the understeer programmed in and then being tail happy on exit is kinda too much for me. Balance... :)

Originally posted by StephenF
I think we should put this thread to death... :eek:

-Stephen
Why? Nobody is being nasty or anything.

Originally posted by Hercules
I agree, in fact I have a lot of brushing up to do myself and I'll be taking a driving course to re-acquaint myself properly.

However, a DSC system should not allow a car to kick out the rear end just as a safety feature... that's why it's there. The fact the 350Z does allow for a tail kick out with the DSC on, doesn't say much is all. With it off, yea let me kick that bastard out :)

But if you want to have a total tail kickout car, then just keep turning it off or order the car w/o it :) But the two extremes, with the understeer programmed in and then being tail happy on exit is kinda too much for me. Balance... :)
Just for example, i believe you can get the tail to kick out a little bit with a m3 with its stability on ).

also a note about the Z, to get the rear of the Z to kick out with vdc turned on the driver would have to be giving it a LOT of gas (read: very intentionally).

Originally posted by TJZ

Just for example, i believe you can get the tail to kick out a little bit with a m3 with its stability on ).

also a note about the Z, to get the rear of the Z to kick out with vdc turned on the driver would have to be giving it a LOT of gas (read: very intentionally). I wouldn't do anything like that.. *whistle*

However I'll say this much, people with experience in FWDers and switching to the Z will be in for a big suprise when they gas it... which is why I'm quick to be careful and I do know how to countersteer for the tail kick, but most people aren't that familiar, and that poses a danger.. better to be safe than sorry :)

I too agree this thread should be closed.

Originally posted by Jerome81
I too agree this thread should be closed.

i dunno. the replies r very civil compared to other forums. i say when the talk degrades to something like "you suck, i'm right" then we close it imho.

Originally posted by chenpin


i dunno. the replies r very civil compared to other forums. i say when the talk degrades to something like "you suck, i'm right" then we close it imho.
here here

ok. ;)

Originally posted by Hercules

To reply to the 'spinning out', I already made msyelf clear. You can do it in a Miata if you're so inclined, I just thought that when you're paying upwards of 35k for a 350Z they could throw in a stability system that prevents from kicking out the rear end, that's all. Unfortunately their stability control allows for more kickout on the tail and if that's intentional it's fine, but I think that it's a good idea with the safety control to be on, that it should actually be safe.

As per the second part, I merely mentioned the sizes of the leg room available in the 330 and other models compared to what is offered in the RX-8. I also mentioned that in the RX-8 that people's feet would fit underneath the front seats, unlike many other cars. Based on numbers, yes I did say that the comparision is good to make. Never once did I say that .

I'd challenge you to find that post.


Originally posted by Hercules
I would like to say that this much, that the RX-8 is only smaller than the 330Ci ON PAPER. Getting into the car you'll find a big difference, because the rear passengers put their feet underneath the front seats, and the front seats are elevated for that purpose.


Here, you're basically challenging that the RX-8 will feel bigger, even though, technically (through given measurements), it's smaller.
BTW, You must have reallllly huge feet, because I haven't been in a car where you can't slide your feet under the front passenger's seats....Unless you mean feet and ankles...but I'm sure you don't mean that....because I sure couldn't do it when I sat in the RX-8...



To each his own fritts.. I haven't sat in the car yet so I don't know.. but if you've sat in the back of a 330Ci (COUPE!!), then the room there is VERY stuffy. I think the RX-8 will be better than that, if not similar.


Here you're saying you've never been in one.

I didn't say I was in one in the first quote either.

I just regurgitate what I've read on the net and what I gather from press releases. I had the pleasure though, of sitting in a 330Ci at the Philly Auto Show just on Saturday, and I was pretty happy with the space I was given in the rear seat, while my friend sat up front.

The RX-8 should be similar space-wise (even by numbers), and with a separate door to get out and in, it will be more painless to use.

Well I was at the NAIAS and sat in both for comparison sakes. I'm 6' 190lbs, muscular build. There was more headroom in the 8. Knee room is dependant on the driver of course. Foot room is good in both, a little better in the 8 since the front seat is raised. The 8 feels more "snug" because of the center tunnel.. it kinda feels like sitting in your own bucket compartment.. not much room to move around. So in my opinion anyone over my height/weight will not be very happy back there for a long haul. Same goes for the 330 coupe.
The 8 is still a 2+2 imo.. the rear seats/space feel similar to my Prelude with the rear seats a little larger and there is more foot/knee room. And it's a lot easier to get in/get out due to the suicide doors. Make no mistake though, I would not classify/compare this to a 4 door sedan, it's somewhere in between a "typical" cramped 2+2 and a 4 door sedan. Perfect car for me since I don't like 4 doors and the extra space/easier access to the back seats is welcome.

I believe this thread started to do with the weight of the Rx8, everyone wondering what it will come in at.

I was reading this thread at Rx7club.com and its states multiple time to be 2800- 2888 (from a Mazda Rep at NAIAS)

http://www.rx7club.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=151115


Man I cant wait to check a RX 8 out at a dealership.

BTW- I dont think this thread should close. Thread like this make boards interesting. I love reading everyones opinions, and gaining knowlegde of cars/rotary engines in the process.

After reading all this I can just sit here and laugh. This is almost the exact same discussion that came up when the FD came out. Remember the 300ZX, 3000GT VR4, Supra all had 320hp, and the 7 had 255? The 7 was about the same in acceleration numbers and blew all away on a track. I have also seen alot of grumbling about the 350Z not dyno'ing to the proper HP, they are dyno'ing low from what I am reading. I have read an acct (probably you all have to) saying the 2000 spec 7 (280hp) ran against the 8 on a track, it was faster in the straights, but the 8 caught up everytime the twisties came along and had vurtually the same track times. If that acct was true . . . well I will just say I have seen a stock 255hp 7 run away from a 350z in a straight line! If you are really worried about a 350z running from your 8, then wait for the MazdaSpeed 300hp version of it :D But I don't think you will have much to worry about!:cool:

b2k2000,

I think what you're refering to are these videos:

Video: RX-8 testing w/ RX-7 (http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1909)

WOW I never actually saw the videos before, just read the account. It almost looks as if the 8 has to slow down in order not to run over the 7 in the corners. That is impressive considering out well the 7 performs! I know from experience that the 7 is a better handling car, and is alot faster than the 350z so judging by that if they are on a track I see no reason to worry about the 8 getting beat at all!

Dude. I've seen a video of an 8 keeping up with the mazda Lemans car... it MUST mean the 8 is similar in performance!:p

This car isnt going to run with a Z, sorry folks. Wait for the 7 (or the coupe version of the 8, whatever they call it).

While I do think the 8 will hang with the Z on a twisty track, I must agree that this video of the 8 "pushing" the 7 means nothing. The only way to test which car is faster is with the same driver on the same track in both cars. If he can get better lap times with the 8 than the 7 then that's proof.

Originally posted by ToRX-8orToZ

This car isnt going to run with a Z, sorry folks. Wait for the 7 (or the coupe version of the 8, whatever they call it).

You are correct sir -- the only thing that will be running "with" the Z are my two kids -- err I mean running beside the Z since they can't sit behind me like they will be in my RX-8 :D

Who cares about the track :eek: - the number of people who are actually going to take either the 350Z or RX-8 to the track is very very small -- most of us live in the real world -- kids, groceries, etc., etc. and my RX-8 is going to make every mile a blast. Let the "fast and the furious" freaks have the speed demons - there will always be somebody faster anyway.

Same reason I'm buying an 8 ;)

Ok, have any of you staunch 350z guys ever actually seen a race between a stock 255hp rx7 (with the PEP package)and a brand new 350z? If you had you would see the 7 running a 350z like it was standing still, it was not even a close contest . . . Actually nevermind :o I am tired of this thread, think what you want, when the comparo's come out you will see what I already know!:p

I test drove a 350Z. It's very nice, but not for the 38K they were charging for it (track version). Oddly, I test drove an WRX and thought it was just as quick, and the handling was on par too. The suspension is nice on the 350Z, very little body roll, but it still pushed. The WRX pushed as well but seemed to be more stable, the AWD certainly helps. I tested them on tight mountain roads. Granted the WRX's interior isn't as nice, then again the price difference is 12K. As far as track performance, I think the RX-8 will win hands down. We'll find out in a few months or so.

Rob

It was said before that "you never forget the girl that busted your balls, but this is the one you marry."

In the REAL world, the RX-8 will be the real daily winner.