Check it just found on Jelopnik:

http://jalopnik.com/5435351/report-mazda-rx+7-is-the-new-rx+8

A lot of buzz happening here........

Until I see the actual car that will be in production, when it will be for sale, the engine it has and all the specs as well as a price, I don't believe a word of anything RX-7 or 16x related. I'm getting sick of all the rumors.

So weird how everybody is posting about this again. It's STILL about the same thing over and over. Except this one says it's going to go with a more conventional look, which kind of makes me sad. I would love some Furai in it. But, if the costs keep low and it sells more, by all means.

More from one other well respected car web site.

http://blogs.insideline.com/straightline/2009/12/arrival-of-2012-mazda-rx-7-could-spell-end-for-rx-8.html

I could Read about this stuff all day long.... What can I say I am a bit of a dreamer in some aspects.

2011? so its coming out with Mazda2 ?

I kinda doubt it. but hmm, consider Mazda is getting Full control again, the Rotary R&D department should be fully funded, unlike the early Renesis days (another reason for me to hate Ford, Go fu-ck urself Ford)

So lets just hope its really coming out in 2011 model (meaning we get it next year) ~~~

^ thats true i really hope they throw more money at the rotary so we can have a new rx car

^ thats true i really hope they throw away money with the rotary so we can have a new rx car

Fixed, and I really do hope they stick with the rotary developments despite the financial losses.

When everybody is losing, it doesnt matter (money)

They did RX-8 kinda right, if they came out with 3 oil nozzle in the first place, the engine problem might not even exist, which cost Mazda millions of dollars.

lets see what happens next year or 2 ...

ILL believe it when i see it

A similar article from WCF........200-250hp? Competing with the Genesis and the FT-86??? Was hoping for a bit more out of the next gen RX-7, but we will have to see.

http://www.worldcarfans.com/109122823723/mazda-rx-7-revival-rumors-mark-the-end-of-rx-8

two credible sites are posting this... rumors are good at this point.. just enough to keep the interest there until Mazda surprises us..

I'd like to think that mazda has managed to keep something great as a huge secret. It would make quite a bit of news if they unexpectedly announced something beyond what everyone was expecting.

One can dream...

I'd like to think that mazda has managed to keep something great as a huge secret. It would make quite a bit of news if they unexpectedly announced something beyond what everyone was expecting.

One can dream...

I think about that possibility too but stuff like that doesn't really happen in today's auto world. With the internet and media you pretty much know everything thats coming out well ahead of time and it would be damn near impossible to keep something like that a secret nowadays without it getting leaked somewhere along the line. If anything keeping it a secret will hurt Mazda because there may be many RX8 owners who are currently in the market for another car or will be soon and if they knew about the next rotary car, maybe they'd hold out a little longer and wait for it. If not... and if they still want a sports car/sports coupe...they will move on to another brand. I don't think they are going to get many to buy a second RX-8 without the main issues being addressed.

Great buzz...:evil_laug

I believe it when I see it.

2011 is ambitious for a car that hasn't been seen in concept form.

There is some twisted person responsible for all these lies. Can't be true, since people have already said Mazda will only use "rx9" as the next name, not going backwards onto retired models. An "rx7 returns" would be like the Phantom Menace compared to the originals.

Even if true, they still missed the train. By designing for what happened in the past, instead of looking to the future, they're guaranteed to have the wrong product at the wrong time.

If I designed a "modest" car today, I would be screwed in 2012 when everyone is tired of "modest" and ready to get crazy again.

2011 is ambitious for a car that hasn't been seen in concept form.
Not for nothing, but there have been about 5 concepts that this car, or these cars, can pull design ques from. Concepts don't always have to reveal themselves for there intended offspring by name. The Nagare, Ryuga, Hakaze, Taiki, and Furai will be used as concepts for the next rotary car/cars.

Believe it when I see it!!

2011? so its coming out with Mazda2 ?

I kinda doubt it. but hmm, consider Mazda is getting Full control again, the Rotary R&D department should be fully funded, unlike the early Renesis days (another reason for me to hate Ford, Go fu-ck urself Ford)

So lets just hope its really coming out in 2011 model (meaning we get it next year) ~~~

That's the one thing we can be sure of: We will not get a brand new RX vehicle as a 2011 model. We stand a better chance of 2013 maybe which would mean that Mazda would reveal some of their hand VERY soon. They have openly expressed that they were delayed with the engine so I would suggest the earliest we could get something is 2012 as a 2013. Even that doesn't make sense unless they have been doing much more development than we know.

Paul.

"However, sources close to Mazda now suggest that the company will take a simpler approach and create a car whose character evokes the original RX-7 (sold in the U.S. from 1979-1985). Horsepower is expected to be in the 200-250 range and the pricetag will be about $25,000.
...we hear Mazda is still trying to reduce the weight of the 16X engine while lowering fuel consumption (the age-old problem with rotaries)"

Sounds like to me that they are gonna use the new and improved 09-10 renny engine(200-250hp) and put it in a lightweight 2-seater in a FB throwback body for now, until they get the 16x up and running right then make it the RX7 throwback body style.

Kinda like what Mustang did with the fourth and fifth gen, both revivals of previous popular body styles...looks like Ford still has influence on Mazda after all.

Business wise it makes sense to get their moneys worth out of this engine (in a lightweight two-seater better gas mpg/performance) before going to the 16x and getting all the bugs out before going through all the heartache it did last time. Just my speculation.;)

This is all exciting news, now i would like to see some stuff put in motion.

Heres my take. First of all, I honestly think its all B.S. Less than a month ago Mazda released a statement, both directly and indirectly that the 16X wasn't done. There were articles stating this, and the lack of a Rotary at their SKY Engine show was confirmation in my eyes.

However, If this is true... here is what I see happening.
1. Mazda was\is using the S2 RX8 to test out the engine design, but due to low sales, not much feedback. Mazda will release a lighter car, with a slightly upgraded S2 Renny, OR a De-Tuned 16X, and use that for feedback etc.
2. Depending on such feedback, they will release the 350 HP version and blow peoples minds, with 2-3 Rotaries in the line-up.

Interestingly enough, every RX car has received HP upgrades throughout its lifetime except the RX8. I'd like to see Mazda drop a newer engine in this, and lets see what happens. Its already been stated in the Industry that the RX8 is a car with 1 flaw mostly, its engine. So lets fix that and see how sales change.

If whats been recently said is true, I'd like to see
1. FC based RX7 2400 lbs. 250 HP, 2 seats.
2. Kabura (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazda_Kabura)Based Rx7 2600 lbs 350HP\215 Lb\ft version 2seats
3. RX8 based, or keep it exact. 2900 lbs. 350 HP, 4 Seats.

These cars would create a great Rotary lineup, and cover a lot of consumers desires.

That would be a great idea for us Rotor heads, but would seem like a huge step in 'Riskville" for Mazda to have 3 Rotary cars in the line-up. I just can't wait for some official news from Mazda!

These threads are all the same. Someone posts an article, which is just a rehash of the same total speculation and lack of facts as always, then everyone says why it's not going to happen, then people start in with their wish lists which are pretty much variations of figures for horsepower, gas mileage, weight, and doors. Pass.

That would be a great idea for us Rotor heads, but would seem like a huge step in 'Riskville" for Mazda to have 3 Rotary cars in the line-up. I just can't wait for some official news from Mazda!

It all depends on how the economy swings, and how sales and reputation grow.
If they produced them in the order I posted, as sales grow from one to the next I see a better chance of it working rather than all 3 at once. The only reason i mentioned the 8 is because the Chassis is already here.

Any idea on cost???

/\ yes, $45,000































no.

:SHOCKED:














:mad:

It has always been this way, Mazda is very secretive after all it is an exotic Rotary engine no one else has anything like it. We are the select few that took the chance on this oddity and understood that this was a "RX" because it's experimental. We have decided to support this experiment and see where it goes. They do read these by the way, because they want to know where we want to go.

It has always been this way, Mazda is very secretive after all it is an exotic Rotary engine no one else has anything like it. We are the select few that took the chance on this oddity and understood that this was a "RX" because it's experimental. We have decided to support this experiment and see where it goes. They do read these by the way, because they want to know where we want to go.

We should actually post where we want to go, should we do this here? Should we make a new thread. I actually think its a wonderful idea.

My post 2 posts ago tells where I want Mazda to go.

I have yet to see as big of articles as these in well respects online sites for a few years now.

My wish list includes about 270hp with over 220 ft#s torque in a coupe Miata with updated styling.

Anyone ever see the NB coupe Miata?

Interesting find.

I LOLed at this pretty hard for some reason :rofl: ... nice

/\ yes, $45,000































no.

What if Mazda put the Series II Reni or a 16X in a car like the Mazda Superlight!!

Conceived and created as a way to celebrate the MX-5 Miata's 20th anniversary – along with showcasing Mazda's focus on lightweight performance – the Superlight's new profile and 2,194-pound curb weight is the brainchild of the automaker's European R&D center in Oberursel, Germany.

Based off the recently facelifted roadster, the most obvious change to the Superlight is its speedster profile, which involved removing the windshield, retractable roof and frame. From there, Mazda's European team extended the aluminum hood towards the cabin and mounted an aluminum, wide-angle rear-view mirror, along with a set of roll-over hoops fitted with LED brake lights.

The passenger compartment benefits from a thorough stripping, with the removal of the sound insulation, carpeting and air conditioning unit. In their place goes a set of carbon fiber racing buckets coated in the same brown leather as the steering wheel, armrests and aluminum shifter and hand brake. The dash is a custom fiberglass and plastic unit, with the stock MX-5's gauges joining an engine-start button bringing to life the standard 1.8-liter four-cylinder (putting out 126 hp and 123 lb-ft of torque) and equipped with a Mazdaspeed cold-air intake and exhaust. But with the diet and minimal engine mods, the run from 0-to-60 MPH comes in at 8.9 seconds.

Here is a link for more info..

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/09/11/mazda-mx-5-superlight-leaked-ahead-of-frankfurt/

Make a new thread symbioticgenius! I wanna see people's ideas for mazda's rotary.

It all depends on how the economy swings, and how sales and reputation grow.
If they produced them in the order I posted, as sales grow from one to the next I see a better chance of it working rather than all 3 at once. The only reason i mentioned the 8 is because the Chassis is already here.

Yeah, doing that in an order would be pretty good. Release the first, if sales are good, push for the second one and continue. I don't use the rear seats enough to justify buying the RX-8 version of the next rotary, in that case.

These threads always make me want to jump to the future and see what happens :(

Wait, if they put series II renesis into a lighter car people would still say it was torqueless and needed a different engine.

I don't think a series II renny is an option for a new model of any kind, regardless of weight. There would have to be an upgrade in mileage to warrant such a move.

I don't think a series II renny is an option for a new model of any kind, regardless of weight. There would have to be an upgrade in mileage to warrant such a move.

I wonder how better the mileage would be if they just lowered the weight to Miata standards...

Also, they could easily change the gearing/detune the car a bit to get better gas mileage. Sure, it would be a bit slower, but in that light of a car, I'd imagine it would balance out a bit.

In the end, the more I'm thinking about it....I'm not keen on that idea. Too much of an overlap with what the Miata is.

Also, they could easily change the gearing/detune the car a bit to get better gas mileage.

They could do the same thing with the 16X and get some field research done on the basic long term wide scale performance of the motor while they finished their R&D with the DI and injector placement to get the most tuned performance out of it.

We would get the new geometry motor to play with in the after market and Mazda would get their next gen rotary motor out on the streets. Win Win:naughty:

to be honest, according to recent articles. things do not really add up. Right after the Tokyo Auto show, 2 articles stated the 16x is not ready (personally, i doubt the 16x is not ready.- it is the details that they needed to improve) and the next rx-8 will be a evolution, not a revolution. ( coming from the R&D deparment and rx-8 designer- i can be wrong) Then, the chief designer is pushing for a new rx-7. All these news are within 2 months and winthin 2 months, they can scrape the rx-8 plan and push forth the rx-7 plan? doesnt really sound too realistic. Also, the new rx-7 news only circulated after insideline posted and it seems the other websites so feed off it. Correct me with i am wrong. =D however..... showing a 2 year old concept at Taipei auto show might means something.... especially, the taiki concept. =O

Really, nothing truly does add up, just because of the fact that we can't get a straight answer! Until Mazda pipes up and tells us exactly what's up, we will not be sure.

Until then, speculating is hella fun!

All we know is, rx9 is the replacement for rx8. We don't know when though.

Whether or not they resurrect rx7 in between is just a side story, and unrelated to the eventual rx8 replacement, called rx9.

rx9. Sounds so much better than saying rx7/8.

Not that this matters, but I disagree. Rx9 just doesn't roll off the tongue as Rx7 and Rx8 do.
Hell even Next RX sound better than Rx9. There's no Nagare to that name.

hearing RX9, I think of the CX9 SUV.

Hi. My model number is rx7. I'm outdated model. Success is unlikely against the future.

Advanced Multi Side Port technology and weapons systems: Probability 95% will crush.

RX-9 was already used by Mazda.

Rotary version of their Luce sedan.

how about a 16x direct injection, with variable vane turbo? I understand why mazda went away from turbos on the rx8, however they still have had engine issues....do it right this time...use the wasted exhaust gases that only a rotary can create to spin up a variable vane turbo in a light weight chasis....direct injection should seriously help with emissions/gas mileage/detonation. Add to that a lighter chasis for even better fuel economy, and put some seriously engineered apex seals in it that can take a beating as well as slightly lowering the compression ratio....if they can get 350 hp out of the 16x which i doubt, they could easilly get 400 hp out of 16x with a variable vane turbo and direct injection....and better fuel economy than the current rx8......and if its sold as a sportscar/2 seater, there wont be much that can compete with it

I hoped we might see some official news from Mazda at the Detroit Auto Show since the R3 was announced there two years ago. But no such luck. My suspicion is that Mazda is sitting on the fence.

The rumor of a $25k rotary is a prescription for disaster. IMHO, Mazda needs to accept that the RX cars are statement/branding cars. If they break even, you are doing well. In that vein, Mazda should keep the RX-8 with the suicide doors for the simple reason that it shows the rotary to its greatest advantage. To see my point, answer this question: how many true sports cars have a back seat at all, let alone one where adults could actually fit???

If I were in charge of this project at Mazda, I would try to bring out the new car with the existing Renesis engine for one reason: the engine is well sorted out by now. One of the continuing raps against the rotary is reliability. I don't think this is actually true, but the public perception is there.

The second thing I would do is try to get the car's weight down to around 2500 lbs and bump the hp of the exiting engine to 250 hp. Take 500-600 lbs off the RX-8, and 250 hp becomes more than adequate.

Lastly, I would move the car up market, probabably around $40k. Part of that move will be dictated by the weight reduction, which will get expensive.

If this sounds ridiculous, take the Lotus Evora which weighs around 3100 lbs and has a toyota engine making around 275 hp with a joke for a back seat. Starting pricing is over $70k. By comparison, a 250 hp, 2500lb RX-8 with a real back seat for $40k would be a bargain.

I hoped we might see some official news from Mazda at the Detroit Auto Show since the R3 was announced there two years ago. But no such luck. My suspicion is that Mazda is sitting on the fence.

The rumor of a $25k rotary is a prescription for disaster. IMHO, Mazda needs to accept that the RX cars are statement/branding cars. If they break even, you are doing well. In that vein, Mazda should keep the RX-8 with the suicide doors for the simple reason that it shows the rotary to its greatest advantage. To see my point, answer this question: how many true sports cars have a back seat at all, let alone one where adults could actually fit???

If I were in charge of this project at Mazda, I would try to bring out the new car with the existing Renesis engine for one reason: the engine is well sorted out by now. One of the continuing raps against the rotary is reliability. I don't think this is actually true, but the public perception is there.

The second thing I would do is try to get the car's weight down to around 2500 lbs and bump the hp of the exiting engine to 250 hp. Take 500-600 lbs off the RX-8, and 250 hp becomes more than adequate.

Lastly, I would move the car up market, probabably around $40k. Part of that move will be dictated by the weight reduction, which will get expensive.

If this sounds ridiculous, take the Lotus Evora which weighs around 3100 lbs and has a toyota engine making around 275 hp with a joke for a back seat. Starting pricing is over $70k. By comparison, a 250 hp, 2500lb RX-8 with a real back seat for $40k would be a bargain.


Mazda will not be able to sell a rotary car at 40k, and you'd be hard pressed to get the kind of weight reduction you are talking about while keeping a back seat. Only solution in that regard might be a lot of carbon fiber which could push the price over 40K.

You may very well be right. But consider that there are other automakers which are making vehicles much more expensive than the rest of their line. For example, the Nissan GT-R.

Carbon fiber did cross my mind as I wrote the post and I know it gets expensive, which is why I suggested $40k. But it could be more.

If you go to other sites, the same issues are raised time and again: lack of engine reliability, lack of torque, lack of HP, poor gas mileage for the hp generated. The reliability issues tend to be raised by people who have never owned the car. My impression is that engine failures have been rare since the '04-05 model years. But the perception persists. This issue argues strongly for the existing engine as it is fully sorted out after 7 years.

The only way to minimize the related issues of hp/torque/gas mileage is to take a page out of Lotus' book, significantly reduce the weight of the car and see where this leaves you in terms of pricing. Otherwise, Mazda will have to wait until the problems with the 16x engine are sorted out.

Mazda is at a crossroad with the current RX-8. Sales numbers show this car is dying on the vine. I would be surprised if the 2010 RX-8 is not the last year for the current RX-8. Mazda needs to do more than a mild model refresh as was done for the '09 model. Mazda needs to come out with a new model, be it RX-8 or RX-7.

In that vein, Mazda should keep the RX-8 with the suicide doors for the simple reason that it shows the rotary to its greatest advantage. To see my point, answer this question: how many true sports cars have a back seat at all, let alone one where adults could actually fit???
The rotary's biggest advantage is its size so it should go in a small coupe. It's all about Power:Weight.

Mazda made a point of saying a 2 seater sports car makes the most out of the Wankel when the first RX-7 was released because it makes good power compared to its size and fuel economy wouldn't be too high a priority in a sports car.

I disagree. The size and weight of the wankel allows you to use a front engine configuration but obtain the weight distribution of a mid-engined auto. The space in the RX-8 while having its outstanding handling capabilities is only possible because of the wankel.

All I hope for is they can get it figured out. I know the MPG is probably the biggest...and hardest issue to deal with on the rotary. Hopefully they will have a breakthrough. Problem is the longer they wait, the higher the MPG will have to be.

I think Carbon Buildup is still a bigger issue. MPG, might be more important as a selling point, but if word gets out the engine sucks, sales will still suck.

Obviously most here know my take on Ethanol, but the "supporting systems" of the RX8 cause a lot of the common issues. The Coils suck, and sucky coils make everything else suck (pardon my 2nd grade grammar, Im exhausted). Bad coils, cause Bad Plugs, Bad Cats, Low compression, and eventual demise.

I would work on a better Coil system.... which might help MPG...

Oh yeah, BTW, if its gonna be a 2 seater, it damn sure better be faster than a 370, otherwise the 8 loses its best comparative selling point.

I had already mentioned something about this somewhere haha....


-2 Seats
-250-280hp
-2700-2950lbs base model, maybe even 3000lbs with extra BS
-Personally, I don't mind gas mileage considering what the current models mpg's are. Then again if they cut some weight this will help mpg's as well. It is a sports car but good mileage Def. brings in more customers.

Now maybe I left no room for suggestions, maybe. IMO, I think Mazda can go about this a # of ways. Reliability comes to mind and mileage, but if that is some how calculated correctly, ( This is also why it is a challenge) or even just from a reliability standpoint ( with above description of vehicle), I think that will be a winner.

For plenty of car enthusiast this could work but we also have to think about the general public, families for example....... More ideas?? :dunno:

EDIT: Maybe they can have both a 2 and 4 seat option haha.

Any 2 seater that they do with less than 270 horse must weigh less than 2700 lbs or else it is major fail. Even if it's an entry level sports car (Which makes much sense to me). The power to weight needs to be that to start with.

My realistic goals for a 2 seat rotary sports car are NA:
Power 275 hp ,
Torque 200 lb-ft
weight 2600 lbs,
MPG 18/26

A turbo version should be available within a year afterward making 55 extra hp and 75 extra lb-ft. The weight penalty should not exceed 100lbs including all the turbo, intercooler, plumbing, beefier brakes, drivetrain etc.

Ahhh, a man can only dream.

Paul :)

I had already mentioned something about this somewhere haha....


-2 Seats
-250-280hp
-2700-2950lbs base model, maybe even 3000lbs with extra BS
-Personally, I don't mind gas mileage considering what the current models mpg's are. Then again if they cut some weight this will help mpg's as well. It is a sports car but good mileage Def. brings in more customers.

Now maybe I left no room for suggestions, maybe. IMO, I think Mazda can go about this a # of ways. Reliability comes to mind and mileage, but if that is some how calculated correctly, ( This is also why it is a challenge) or even just from a reliability standpoint ( with above description of vehicle), I think that will be a winner.

For plenty of car enthusiast this could work but we also have to think about the general public, families for example....... More ideas?? :dunno:

EDIT: Maybe they can have both a 2 and 4 seat option haha.

Nissan has the 2-door and 4-door Altima now...

As for 3000 lbs... no thanks. Not with only 250~280HP. You'd probably want closer to 350~380HP.

We'll just have to wait and see what Mazda is planning...

I think the interesting question is whether Mazda can introduce a new wankel with the existing engine. No one knows if the engineering challenges of the 16x can be overcome or how much longer it will take if they can be overcome. The existing engine is here and has the advantage of being in use for 7 yrs. My assumption is that the engine is reliable, especially after the '09 changes. Not at all sure the public believes that, but Mazda cannot afford ANY reliability issues with the wankel. I have to assume that reliability concerns are the reason why Mazda never offerred FI for the current engine.

So if you are left with the current engine powering any new model, what can you do??? The obvious answer is two-fold. First get the weight down substantially. I like the car having a back seat, but weight trumps a back seat. My off the top of my head guess is that the car would need to be in the 2500-2700 range to make a big performance impact with the output of the current engine. Second, the car will have to remain first and foremost a true sports car where the emphasis is on handling over raw horsepower AND the car is marketing as such.

the new car will have to break into the 13's to compete, no matter what motor is in it and no matter how well it handles.

Do you think Mazda will pull the plug on RX8 soon regardless of the outcome of the 16x? Sales of the 8 have fallen off the cliff and a lot of dealers don't even want to stock it.

If I were a betting man, I would wager that the 2010 model year will be the last one for the current car and that we will have to wait a year or two (or more) for its replacement.

Any 2 seater that they do with less than 270 horse must weigh less than 2700 lbs or else it is major fail. Even if it's an entry level sports car (Which makes much sense to me). The power to weight needs to be that to start with.

My realistic goals for a 2 seat rotary sports car are NA:
Power 275 hp ,
Torque 200 lb-ft
weight 2600 lbs,
MPG 18/26

A turbo version should be available within a year afterward making 55 extra hp and 75 extra lb-ft. The weight penalty should not exceed 100lbs including all the turbo, intercooler, plumbing, beefier brakes, drivetrain etc.

Ahhh, a man can only dream.

Paul :)

Well, I hope that dream comes true.

Nissan has the 2-door and 4-door Altima now...

As for 3000 lbs... no thanks. Not with only 250~280HP. You'd probably want closer to 350~380HP.

We'll just have to wait and see what Mazda is planning...

Coming from my standpoint, I usually cut plenty of weight in any sports car I have owned so weight is not my issue.;)

Overall, for enthusiast and the general public, what Paul has said is perfect IMO. Mazda can figure it out, I'm hoping.

Perfecting a new 3 rotor will help some of these issues haha.

I think everyone (including myself) need to realistically re-examine the whole hp/weight issue in light of what is currently on the market and where we think the new RX would slot. Under $40k, there are 1-2 true sports cars (depending on your definition). The is the 370Z and the only way Mazda is going head to head with this car is with the 16x engine as this car weighs around 3400 lbs and has 330 hp. The other possible sports car is the Genesis Coupe 2.0 Track or Track R Spec. The current RX-8 weighs less, and has more hp (but less torque and much worse gas mileage).

There is maybe one GT car which again is the Genesis Coupe, but this time the 3.8 Track. The current RX-8 is about 400 lbs lighter but 70 hp less powerful.

Sports sedans? Maybe the BMW 128i which is about the same power but heavier than the current RX-8.

Finally there are muscle cars like the Mustang and Camaro. I've seen both listed as competitors for the RX-8 in reviews and I alway shake my head in wonder. Does anyone seriously considering the RX-8 look at either of these cars??? In stock form, the cars couldn't be more different. The only other possible category of car out there are the FWD hot hatches which, like the muscle cars, are very different animals.

So if you slot the new RX-7 comfortably below the 370Z so as to avoid that competition (say around $30k), how light or powerful would the new RX-7 have to be in stock form to be competitive with everything out there??? The answer is probably that the new RX-7 will need to be lighter, but probably only needs to be 100-200 lbs lighter than the current RX-8. More powerful? Yes, but probably no more than 270-280 hp would do the trick.

Another thing Mazda needs to consider is the future competitors like Toyota's FT86 and the Subaru variant of the FT86. If the next RX is to play in the under 30K category these cars will likely offer strong competition. Although recent news suggests the FT86 will be under powered the Subaru version most certainly won’t be. I also hear that these cars are to be light, like 2600 – 2800 lbs.

I think Mazda’s best bet is to play both ends of the field with one solid chassis and two power trains like someone mentioned earlier. Offer an introductory NA model starting at 25-26K with 275hp 180tq and an optional FI model for 29-32K with 325hp 230tq. Both should weight in around 2700-2900lbs. This way Mazda can go after the lower end (FT86, Genesis 2.0T) or the higher end (Subaru FT86, 370z, & Genesis 3.8L).

To be honest I don’t believe Mazda’s competition lies any more up market than the Z. Forgot about going after Porsche, BWM, etc…the consumer perception just isn’t there for Mazda which is why the last RX7 only sold 13K units in the US. Mazda really needs to evaluate how much brand equity it really has with RX line and then design something for the appropriate price category it can effectively compete in…under 35K.

I question whether any variation of the FT86 will come in the 2600-2800 lb range. There are very few cars that weigh under 3000 lbs. In this case, they will need to get very light without any special materials because the price point won't support anything exotic. When it is all said and done with all the safety materials, I bet the FT86 will be hard pressed to get under 3000 lbs

I question whether any variation of the FT86 will come in the 2600-2800 lb range. There are very few cars that weigh under 3000 lbs. In this case, they will need to get very light without any special materials because the price point won't support anything exotic. When it is all said and done with all the safety materials, I bet the FT86 will be hard pressed to get under 3000 lbs

They will definitely do without the floor mats these days...

I question whether any variation of the FT86 will come in the 2600-2800 lb range. There are very few cars that weigh under 3000 lbs. In this case, they will need to get very light without any special materials because the price point won't support anything exotic. When it is all said and done with all the safety materials, I bet the FT86 will be hard pressed to get under 3000 lbs


I disagree, the concept unveiled at the Tokyo Auto Show was quite small, Mini size in fact. With that size foot print I don't see why it can't weight under 3000 lbs. Look what Mazda is planning with the next MX5 weight wise and that car isn't going to be over 30K, more like mid 20s.

Hope you are right, but alot happens from concept stage to production stage and it usually isn't that good.

this is mazda needs to do !! But no so ugly

http://wikicars.org/en/Mazda_Cosmo_21

I think the interesting question is whether Mazda can introduce a new wankel with the existing engine. No one knows if the engineering challenges of the 16x can be overcome or how much longer it will take if they can be overcome. The existing engine is here and has the advantage of being in use for 7 yrs. My assumption is that the engine is reliable, especially after the '09 changes. Not at all sure the public believes that, but Mazda cannot afford ANY reliability issues with the wankel. I have to assume that reliability concerns are the reason why Mazda never offerred FI for the current engine.

So if you are left with the current engine powering any new model, what can you do??? The obvious answer is two-fold. First get the weight down substantially. I like the car having a back seat, but weight trumps a back seat. My off the top of my head guess is that the car would need to be in the 2500-2700 range to make a big performance impact with the output of the current engine. Second, the car will have to remain first and foremost a true sports car where the emphasis is on handling over raw horsepower AND the car is marketing as such.

Although reliability issues have supposedly been taken care of, the problem with continuing to use the current engine is the fact that you still have piss poor fuel economy. Even if you had a car that would be a few hundred lbs lighter, the impact on mpg would be minimal. Besides the rotorheads, the masses will not accept the horrible mpg on a relatively underpowered car. I still believe the mpg is the main reason there is virtually no market for the 8 anymore.

OK, let's face it. The 16X will be an improvement over the Renesis, but it will still lag behind the competition.

Mazda just can't make rotaries that can compete with piston engines in the current HP wars. Piston engines are getting stupid powerful (hello, 400+ HP luxury cars that never see 80 MPH), and Mazda just can't ramp up the rotary at the same rate.

And it's hard to convince people that a less powerful rotary is better than a piston engine that gets better MPG with more power. The rotary allows better handling because of its smaller size and lighter weight than a piston engine of the same power, but HP and MPG are numbers you can put on a sticker and handling feel is not.

Mazda is doing a great job with continuing rotary development. They are heroes for even sticking with it, given what it has cost them. Be thankful for whatever future rotaries come our way, because only the die-hard dedication of Mazda is keeping this super-fun engine alive.

Don't get your hopes up too far about the 16X. Just hope we actually see it in a production car. It's bad times for rotaries, and this ain't nothing new, Mazda has been going through this since the late '70s and we should be glad that they have kept rotary cars alive this long.

Yeah, cause the top selling 350\370z gets like, 2 more MPG than the 8.
P.S. A large portion of my friends... roughly 70% drive VQ powered vehicles (Z's and G35's), and most of them get crappy gas mileage too.

I believe the main market issue for the 8 has much more to do with perception. With the invention of the internet, researching any product is easy. If you do research on the Rx8, you will hear of both engine and transmission issues, as well as various oil usage\consumption irregularities. You hear 159 lb\ft of torque and you think Altima, not sports car. All of this leads to the perception that the 8 sucks. Those who looked past those things, and tried the car, are pretty much owners. Unfortunately, too many people believe all of what they read.

Also, Mazda doesn't even advertise the 8 at all. Fail on their part.

If you do research on the Rx8, you will hear of both engine and transmission issues, as well as various oil usage\consumption irregularities. You hear 159 lb\ft of torque and you think Altima, not sports car.


Very true, rotaries tend to have a bad rep because of a combination of legit issues and apples vs. oranges comparisons. The FD really didn't help the reliability reputation for rotaries, and 159 ft/lbs of peak torque sounds laughably weak when you don't understand the torque curve of a rotary.


Also, Mazda doesn't even advertise the 8 at all. Fail on their part.


It's an old car now, they advertised it as much as any sports car ever gets advertised. Sports cars don't get advertised much, because they don't need to be advertised much, the buyers are a group that already knows. When did you last see an ad for a 911?

I read somewhere else in this thread...

What Mazda needs to do is have 2 cars. One $25k, and the other $32k (or around there). They both have 16x, one is FI. One produces 250-270hp and 180-200tq and the FI one should be putting out 250tq and 350hp at least... all while keeping it at around 2800-3000lbs...

Lets not forget... If your going to spend mid 30k on a car... there is still the Evo. Great handling, AWD makes it great for all weather (and conditions), and its very quick off the line. Chip it and you get even more.

Mazda has a lot of serious competition. The new 2.0 Genesis coupe is very nice interior wise (i drove it). Its kinda slow.. but it practically has the evo engine... and stock it can handle 500hp without throwing a rod. Tuners are going to eat that shit up.

Mustang is putting out a new V8 to compete with the Camaro. Its gonna put out 400hp. There new V6 already puts out more then their old v8 (lols).

Camaro... nuff said.

New toyota (although i think it will be a fail).

BMW128i...

370z is a nice car, and a big improvement on the 350... The G37s is also a much wanted car.

Mazda needs to do some serious thinking. I know emissions and EPA mpg is killing their R&D, but if they can keep the car around 20mpg average, then i dont think they will have a problem as long as the weight/power is enough to compete with the ever growing competition.




Do it Mazda.

CrazyJek's post shows what has vexed the current RX-8 and the challenge any new rotary would face: what exactly is it? Is the RX a muscle car? Can/should it compete with rally cars like the EVO? Or is it competition for the Z?

The new car will need to address hp/torque/reliability issues, but if Mazda does not define, what it is, none of that may matter. How much hp the new car needs, depends in part, on what it is.

CrazyJek's post shows what has vexed the current RX-8 and the challenge any new rotary would face: what exactly is it? Is the RX a muscle car? Can/should it compete with rally cars like the EVO? Or is it competition for the Z?

The new car will need to address hp/torque/reliability issues, but if Mazda does not define, what it is, none of that may matter. How much hp the new car needs, depends in part, on what it is.

People come up to me all the time and ask... "Why would i buy a brand new Rx8 for 32-35k... when i could get an Evo for a tiny bit more?" I say, "Well you get the exclusivity of owning a rotary and the amazing handling on the car. You get that zoom-zoom feeling!" They reply with.."Well the Evo has amazing handling too, and it also seats 4, and its more reliable..."

Others say they would buy the Z because owning 4 seats only offers you to drive everyone everywhere. Honestly, the new Z doesnt handle as good as the 8... but who takes these cars to the tracks???

I know many take the Rx8 to tracks and shit... but anyone serious enough to do some serious track racing usually upgrades the suspension anyway...

Mazda needs to understand that having a "track-ready" car is great and all... but MAJORITY of the people buying these cars DO NOT go to the track. They like to see the HP numbers on the sticker.


Make a sports car reliable, look good, unique, competitive in price, and fast with reasonable handling... and you got a lot of people buying it. I love this car to death, and have loved it ever since it came out... but almost everyone i know says they wouldnt buy it because there are many better options in that price range that has what they are looking for.

I hope Mazda finds a role for their new rotary. The 8 seems like their bastard child. Jeremy Clarkson said it best, "Its almost like they had a suggestion box at the factory.. they got millions of ideas and said "I know! Lets have all of them!""

I think Mazda really missed the boat on marketing this car, it's not a muscle car, it's not an ultra performance car, it's a go cart that makes it fun to drive everyday and you can take your friends or family along for the ride. If it didn't have the back seat I'd have to drive some sort of sport sedan. With the proper positioning they would own this catagory. Go back to 2 seats and the competition is much greater as well as losing all us family guys who still like to drive.
I've had my car for 5 years and look for an alternative all the time just to have something new and I keep coming back to the car I already have.

People come up to me all the time and ask... "Why would i buy a brand new Rx8 for 32-35k... when i could get an Evo for a tiny bit more?" I say, "Well you get the exclusivity of owning a rotary and the amazing handling on the car. You get that zoom-zoom feeling!" They reply with.."Well the Evo has amazing handling too, and it also seats 4, and its more reliable..."

Others say they would buy the Z because owning 4 seats only offers you to drive everyone everywhere. Honestly, the new Z doesnt handle as good as the 8... but who takes these cars to the tracks???

I know many take the Rx8 to tracks and shit... but anyone serious enough to do some serious track racing usually upgrades the suspension anyway...

Mazda needs to understand that having a "track-ready" car is great and all... but MAJORITY of the people buying these cars DO NOT go to the track. They like to see the HP numbers on the sticker.


Make a sports car reliable, look good, unique, competitive in price, and fast with reasonable handling... and you got a lot of people buying it. I love this car to death, and have loved it ever since it came out... but almost everyone i know says they wouldnt buy it because there are many better options in that price range that has what they are looking for.

I hope Mazda finds a role for their new rotary. The 8 seems like their bastard child. Jeremy Clarkson said it best, "Its almost like they had a suggestion box at the factory.. they got millions of ideas and said "I know! Lets have all of them!""

I think what CrazyJek is saying here is right, but to add a little more celerity to what I think, the RX8 compete directly with the Z cars, the evo, and the imprezas, and whatever other sub $40k~$50k car. Now, those others may have been designed with a different purpose in mind initially, but to the average owner, "which is faster", "What's more reliable", and "what has the biggest aftermarket community".

If they were to make it faster (more HP), more reliable (the S2 may fix that) and try and stimulate the aftermarket community, that alone could go a long way. They need to get more people comfortable with the idea of owning a rotary and help battle the stigma. I get jokes all the time about my cars reliability, but my buddy has an 8 with 170k miles on it... People just aren't educated.

In high school we took apart a piston engine in science and in physics class. maybe mazda should donate some rotary engines to school s and have the science departments educate students about the various kinds of engines available. I duno... i think they need to do a lot more education / PR work to help people understand what they are.

I'm a dreamer and would like to believe Mazdas got an ace up their sleeve...

But to be honset, I don't think they are going to be done tweaking the 16x for a fuel economy-savvy automotive market for a loong time.

But when that engine comes out, you can bet I'm going to swap this renesis out for that 1.6 liter monster :D

just read a article on super street mag about rx8 coming back. any one read it? i'll try to post a pic.

sorry i meant rx7

http://cidvicious831.deviantart.com/art/new-rx7-155560319 heres the link. im gonna take it down soon so try to read the actual mag. i was shopping with my wife so i was reading while she was choosing the sodas. good way to spend time while she talks about food!!

I've been following RX-8 offerings and prices in my area. Mazda has had to offer $5k rebates on 2009 RX-8s, at least thru 3/1/10, to clear out old inventory. Best deal I have seen to date is $24,995 for a 2009 R3 with 413 miles on it. That car did not last long.

The other thing seems to be that there are fewer 2010 RX-8s on the market and this time last year. I get the impression that Mazda is already cutting back production so it won't have to offer big rebates this time around. I'd venture that the phase out of the current RX-8 has already begun.

^ You're not the only one who feels that way. I'm not surprised though...

I'm just waiting for some sort of announcement about what they are doing next.

To give two examples:

I was tracking the price of a 2009 R3 locally. I was actually going to go to the dealership this week when the price dropped to $24,995, but someone beat me to the punch. Just out of curiosity, I checked their inventory of 2010 RX-8s and they had none. Another dealership in my area has two: a R3 which they have had since the Fall and another car.

Sure feels like the current RX-8 is being discontinued or is being replaced by a new model. Either way, Mazda appears to want to limit the amount of left over inventory.

To give two examples:

I was tracking the price of a 2009 R3 locally. I was actually going to go to the dealership this week when the price dropped to $24,995, but someone beat me to the punch. Just out of curiosity, I checked their inventory of 2010 RX-8s and they had none. Another dealership in my area has two: a R3 which they have had since the Fall and another car.

Sure feels like the current RX-8 is being discontinued or is being replaced by a new model. Either way, Mazda appears to want to limit the amount of left over inventory.

I've noticed the exact same thing in my area. It seems that the 10 rx8 are few in dealerships. I am not sure if 2010 is the last YM for the rx8 but judging from the low inventory, it can't last too long.

I'm just sitting tight until we hear that announcement....

I would buy another RX if it (1) got better gas mileage, (2) wasn't underpowered/undertorqued, and (3) was reliable.

Definitely the best handling car I've ever owned, and I love the styling. However, I hated the combination of lack of power and crummy fuel economy. Turbo-ing the car didn't work out...went through 3 engines.

I really hope Mazda does a hat trick.

mazda should have just engineered it with a turbo. that way it would have had beefed up oiling, cooling, and be more structurally sound from the git-go.

as is, they only engineered it for injection in the first place; so they didnt have to make things at a higher performing level. they should have raised the bar & aimed higher imo

everything else on the car is pretty damn sweet

Mazda has a lot of serious competition. The new 2.0 Genesis coupe is very nice interior wise (i drove it). Its kinda slow.. but it practically has the evo engine... and stock it can handle 500hp without throwing a rod. Tuners are going to eat that shit up.

*WRONG*

Sorry I gotta correct this. The Genesis I4 shares a lot of similar stuff with the evo motor but the block selves, pistons, rods etc. Are all totally different and weaker. If anyone was to go for 500 you will have to rebuild motor. Maybe 350-400 is more realistic but still hard.

Same goes with new STI, the new sti motor isnt the same ej25 we are all use to. It used wreaker pistons and rods than previous model motors and therefore a lot of new owners find themselves blowing their motors before they get anywhere close to the old motors powerlevels.

Just gotta clear that up.

Coming from an Evo X...vashcloud is correct. The block is very similar, but everything else is completely different on the Genesis.