Has the two been up against each other? Time Attack, Track, Auto Cross, Drift and/ or Drag??? I haven't heard or seen anything like that on here. What do you think?

I think some feelings will be hurt with this thread.

If anyone responds, that is =p

In terms of autocross, neither set-up is currently on an RX-8 that's been driven on the national level.

From hanging out in the Pettit Racing sub-forum, I know they're two guys in FL (Bastage and marsredr100) with Pettit Racing s/c systems that have run their cars at more than a dozen autocrosses and made several trips to the drag strip and put more than 20K s/c street miles on their engines with no issues.

FWIW, if I decide to build my car for the Street Mod class in autocross, I'd go with a s/c system for the smoother (and more instant) power delivery.

Any Turbo'd 8 has anything to say?

Any Turbo'd 8 has anything to say?
yes. get an s/c if you hate torque. :cwm27:

to the OP, what you are seeking doesnt exist in a form that wont be argued over till blue in the face

chiketkd: i'm disappointed in you :sad: i wont get into the one/other debate, but i will play devil's advocate to get people to look at things with open eyes and not some old lame stereotypes

FWIW, if I decide to build my car for the Street Mod class in autocross, I'd go with a s/c system for the smoother (and more instant) power delivery

so much poor stereotypes here...

what defines smoother? think about this, remove tuning/fueling from the picture since MAF based tuning affects both SC and TC in the same manner... so now potential power delivery resides on air flow. what you're saying is one increases air flow in a smoother manner than the other?

instant power delivery another very poor stereotype... just like you can size a SC for airflow goals, you size a TC as well. grab one like the PR guys are using on their builds and yeah, you arent gonna make shit for power till you get higher in the rpm band. on the opposite end pick one smaller than the greddy... hell even the elusive 3071R(lol) can easily make 12psi at 2800rpms.... (you wanna really learn how SC and TC compare in flow, go figure out what that means... 12psi @2800rpms, take what we know of our motors, and data availible on that TC and you can determine how much air yor flowing there.... and extrapolate down in rpm as far as you like)

yes. get an s/c if you hate torque. :cwm27:


Dude, Im not hating on Turbo, SC or NA. Im completely nuetral on this. I just wanted to know, along with some other people on this forum, would like to know what FI type would win or actually is better than the other. All this talk about "SC is better than Turbo" or visa versa. PUT IT TO THE TEST AGAINST THE OTHER!!! Then when the fun is over, we can just all have a big group hug because we love our 8s. :grouphug:

chiketkd: i'm disappointed in you :sad: i wont get into the one/other debate, but i will play devil's advocate to get people to look at things with open eyes and not some old lame stereotypes


so much poor stereotypes here...

what defines smoother? think about this, remove tuning/fueling from the picture since MAF based tuning affects both SC and TC in the same manner... so now potential power delivery resides on air flow. what you're saying is one increases air flow in a smoother manner than the other?

instant power delivery another very poor stereotype... just like you can size a SC for airflow goals, you size a TC as well. grab one like the PR guys are using on their builds and yeah, you arent gonna make shit for power till you get higher in the rpm band. on the opposite end pick one smaller than the greddy... hell even the elusive 3071R(lol) can easily make 12psi at 2800rpms.... (you wanna really learn how SC and TC compare in flow, go figure out what that means... 12psi @2800rpms, take what we know of our motors, and data availible on that TC and you can determine how much air yor flowing there.... and extrapolate down in rpm as far as you like)
I'm only going off of my personal experience with each set-up. Not trying to play into stereotypes... :eyetwitch

I've owned a number of cars with factory turbo (2.5L WRX and 300ZX TT) and supercharger (SVT Lightning) systems. I've also driven many different modified cars with supercharged and turbocharged systems. This has been my experience, but I would love to be proven wrong.

While I haven't driven a s/c'd or turbo'd RX-8, I have driven a single turbo FD which had power that came on early, but the power delivery wasn't exactly smooth. When it came on (around 3,500rpms), the car was a handful. I've always found s/c cars to drive like they were large displacement n/a engines.

P.S. FWIW, I know Bob Tunnell's BMW M3 (that won the street mod class at Nats a few years back) used a supercharger.

I'm only going off of my personal experience with each set-up. Not trying to play into stereotypes... :eyetwitch

I've owned a number of cars with factory turbo (2.5L WRX and 300ZX TT) and supercharger (SVT Lightning) systems. I've also driven many different modified cars with supercharged and turbocharged systems. This has been my experience, but I would love to be proven wrong.

While I haven't driven a s/c'd or turbo'd RX-8, I have driven a single turbo FD which had power that came on early, but the power delivery wasn't exactly smooth. When it came on (around 3,500rpms), the car was a handful. I've always found s/c cars to drive like they were large displacement n/a engines.

yeah, i can totally understand your position, if you've never rode a TC car that power was delivered smooth, you havent drove one that was setup properly for street driving. hell i'm not track guy, but i would go as far as to say you wanted smooth delivery on the track as well... I've only drove/rode one FI car in my life that was done properly(in my mind) and this was a Greddy kit(original snail/modified everything else) of all things. this one was putting down ~285+ and was smooth as silk in delivery and modulation

yeah, i can totally understand your position, if you've never rode a TC car that power was delivered smooth, you havent drove one that was setup properly for street driving. hell i'm not track guy, but i would go as far as to say you wanted smooth delivery on the track as well... I've only drove/rode one FI car in my life that was done properly(in my mind) and this was a Greddy kit(original snail/modified everything else) of all things. this one was putting down ~285+ and was smooth as silk in delivery and modulation
Interesting. I have yet to drive any turbo car like that in my life.

talking about smoothness and transition, i was shocked when ridding my friends mm upgraded car

boost was instant transition was so smooth i didnt even know it had been gonig into boost if it wasnt for the fact i could see the gauge. onky thing i noticed was he was able to go up the hill where i had to down shift

i havent been in a standard greddy turbo, i look foward to mm finnishing mine one day .... one day

yeah, that turo is a great size for low mount because it fits and its about the best choice you can make for low end + high end flow. i wouldnt expect to find any Greddy turbo's that exhibit those kinds of characteristics... its extremely rare.

I drove a SAAB 9-3 Aero (270 hp approximately). Its a V6 with a turbo with very quick spool time. I was so disappointed because it felt like any N/A car. I wanted to feel a bit of a kick, but nope. No kick whatsoever.

My other friends race prepped BMW M3 has more of a kick and that one is N/A (albeit 340 hp). What I am trying to say is that a turbo is not directly equal to brutal power deliver. An M3 is ;)

But has anyone seen them side by side? Thats the question.

no.

i see a thread killer

ohh shit im almost to 1000 post

1000, its the best day of my life right now
http://i312.photobucket.com/albums/ll336/michaeferguson/fireworks.jpg

yes. get an s/c if you hate torque. :cwm27:

hahah cmon Rex you know thats like saying buy an 8 if you hate torque,,,

http://i312.photobucket.com/albums/ll336/michaeferguson/clown.jpg

But has anyone seen them side by side? Thats the question.

I know Bastage and marsredr100 continually invite the local TC guys to come out for shoot outs and to this date non of them have bothered to show up,,,

Most people don't know even a single person with a FI RX-8, let alone multiple types of forced induction in their area, so there aren't a lot of people with experience with them both. Rotr8 and I live in the same area and go to a lot of the same meets though, so if anybody is in the MD/Tri-state area you are more than welcome to go for a ride in my car. It would be even better if Jeff would ever finish tuning it...

I know Bastage and marsredr100 continually invite the local TC guys to come out for shoot outs and to this date non of them have bothered to show up,,,

The problem with this is many fold...

1. Most of the TC people with anything other than a base GReddy setup don't live anywhere near them.

2. Any "shoot out" that depends on lap times, etc depends far more on the driver than the car. The closest thing to "impartial" comparison between the two types of FI would be a single trained driver driving both cars to attempt a best time.

3. Even with the same driver on the same track, the other modifications, tuning and various other changes to the cars affect them as much or more than the form of FI. A car with upgraded brakes and dialed in suspension will perform much better than even a more powerful car without those things.

4. In the end, its all personal preference, and that is going to differ depending on who is behind the wheel. It's not a question that can be answered by a "shoot out" or discussion on the interwebs. Some people prefer the completely linear acceleration of a S/C while other people prefer the torque of the T/C. My thought is, if you are going to be spending the time and money to make an RX-8 forced induction, do whatever makes you happy. I far prefer turbochargers, so I went that route. I haven't regretted it, but I know people who feel the same way about S/Cs.

I ve always have had an open invitation for anyone to ride with me and see what its like as well,,,
Ohh and Aaron I will haz 13psi soon:evil_laug

The problem with this is many fold...

1. Most of the TC people with anything other than a base GReddy setup don't live anywhere near them.

2. Any "shoot out" that depends on lap times, etc depends far more on the driver than the car. The closest thing to "impartial" comparison between the two types of FI would be a single trained driver driving both cars to attempt a best time.

3. Even with the same driver on the same track, the other modifications, tuning and various other changes to the cars affect them as much or more than the form of FI. A car with upgraded brakes and dialed in suspension will perform much better than even a more powerful car without those things.

4. In the end, its all personal preference, and that is going to differ depending on who is behind the wheel. It's not a question that can be answered by a "shoot out" or discussion on the interwebs. Some people prefer the completely linear acceleration of a S/C while other people prefer the torque of the T/C. My thought is, if you are going to be spending the time and money to make an RX-8 forced induction, do whatever makes you happy. I far prefer turbochargers, so I went that route. I haven't regretted it, but I know people who feel the same way about S/Cs.

dont take this the wrong way , Aaron , the OP is just asking if any have lined up next to eachother on a track to see who gets to the end first, we already know all this, that you have cited,,,,
I just told him about a specific situation in FL that happens all the time,,,

Thats all, now is it a super generic request on the OPs part yeah sur it is,,, but hey some people just care about that kinda stuff, so go figure,,,

I ve always have had an open invitation for anyone to ride with me and see what its like as well,,,
Ohh and Aaron I will haz 13psi soon:evil_laug

Nice man! I can't wait to check it out. I'm still sorting my overboosting issue, but I'm hoping to have it taken care of this week and I'll be dialing the boost in at a "conservative" 11 PSI. With the changes to the boost controller the car is pretty savage now, and boost spools up very fast, but its not stopping at my target pressure.

dont take this the wrong way , Aaron , the OP is just asking if any have lined up next to eachother on a track to see who gets to the end first, we already know all this, that you have cited,,,,
I just told him about a specific situation in FL that happens all the time,,,

Nah its cool, you know me... I don't care about the S/C vs. T/C war... I guess I just get frustrated with seeing someone asking the question every 4-5 hrs on here.

Dude check my sig out thats pretty much how I feel about this forum,,,

hahah cmon Rex you know thats like saying buy an 8 if you hate torque,,,
LOL couldn't agree with you more. Just having fun in this retarded thread. I really don't care about the whole sc vs tc. They are both fun. boost+rx8=sex

I think a track comparison between an SC 8 and a TC 8 would be cool, but....

With the large amount of variable aftermarket parts, tuning, setups, etc, it would hardly be "fair". Of course that is a loose term, fair is fair, but the looser would always encounter some sour grapes situation. "Oh I lost because my boost controller wasn't setup right", or "I lost because I was running a conservative tune".

I'm not saying it shouldn't be done, just pointing out the obvious.

I will agree turbos are more brutal and come on harder, since they build boost quicker. Some don't like it, some do. I personally like the feeling of a turbo kicking me back into the seat. Superchargers like the Pettit kit make smaller displacement engines feel like larger displacement motors because they build boost in a more linear manner (RPM/Boost)

I will agree turbos are more brutal and come on harder, since they build boost quicker. Some don't like it, some do. I personally like the feeling of a turbo kicking me back into the seat. Superchargers like the Pettit kit make smaller displacement engines feel like larger displacement motors because they build boost in a more linear manner (RPM/Boost)
I've shared a similar experience as well. I will say, for a given boost level, turbo set-ups typically make more power than s/c set-ups. But should I ever go down this road, peak numbers will not be my priority. Instead my emphasis will be on driveability.

I've always found it easier to drive a car with a linear powerband at the limit, than a car with a powerband that comes on in a rapid surge. If a turbo car can be tuned to deliver power in a true linear manner, then I would definitely consider it.

Saying turbo cars cant/dont have a linear powerband just isnt true.

Saying turbo cars cant/dont have a linear powerband just isnt true.
yeah just don't get the esmeril kit if you want a linear power band instead of an on/off switch for power

http://www.rx8club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128040&d=1224728206


That looks pretty damn Linear to me.

air is air-its all in the tune and set up.
OD

That looks pretty damn Linear to me.

not to rain on your parade... but that graph is plotted against MPH, not RPM. not saying it ruins the impression, but it certianly could alter it some.

But more to Symbiotic(and others) point, anyone who doesnt understand that a TC can deliver power in a linear fashion does not understand electronic boost controllers. Course most people like the kick in the seat feel vs the linear feel, I prefer linear


EDIT: OD just hit it on the head... it IS all in tuning and setup. fuel/spark/, boost control/WG setup etc

EDIT: OD just hit it on the head... it IS all in tuning and setup. fuel/spark/, boost control/WG setup etc
While I understand why this could be very true, one thing you can almost never tune out completely is turbo lag (w/o adding an expensive anti-lag system).

With a minimum weight requirement of 2,700lbs (2 rotor 13B w/ FI) in Street Mod, I'd want a FI that would be able to produce at least 400-420whp with as little lag as possible. I'm not aware of any s/c system that's currently able to make this kind of power, which is why I want to wait for the 16X renesis to come out before making this decision (minimum weight would rise to 2,760lbs).

While I understand why this could be very true, one thing you can almost never tune out completely is turbo lag (w/o adding an expensive anti-lag system).

Clearly you have no understanding what turbo lag is.

While I understand why this could be very true, one thing you can almost never tune out completely is turbo lag (w/o adding an expensive anti-lag system).

With a minimum weight requirement of 2,700lbs (2 rotor 13B w/ FI) in Street Mod, I'd want a FI that would be able to produce at least 400-420whp with as little lag as possible. I'm not aware of any s/c system that's currently able to make this kind of power, which is why I want to wait for the 16X renesis to come out before making this decision (minimum weight would rise to 2,760lbs).

The problem with turbo lag is that the higher your target power number the more lag is going to accompany it. For a drag car or a dyno queen it doesn't matter as much but getting a 1.3L motor (even a rotary) to churn out 400+ whp without any lag is tricky. The Renesis is even more difficult because of the side ports and higher compression. There is no kit that is regularly putting out those numbers on an otherwise stock Renesis with or without lag. The only company that even advertises 400+ whp bolt-on is Esmeril and as far as I'm aware only Chris from Esmeril has taken the kit above 400 whp and kept the engine intact.

The 16X might help a lot for hitting those numbers because of the extra displacement, but depending on the rest of the engine design, maybe not. If Mazda releases another NA car the engine will be high compression, and I don't see them losing the side ports for economy and emissions reasons if nothing else. If you really want to hit 400+ hp rotary with no lag, I would recommend an NA 20B like a lot of the pro teams use.

While I understand why this could be very true, one thing you can almost never tune out completely is turbo lag (w/o adding an expensive anti-lag system).

With a minimum weight requirement of 2,700lbs (2 rotor 13B w/ FI) in Street Mod, I'd want a FI that would be able to produce at least 400-420whp with as little lag as possible. I'm not aware of any s/c system that's currently able to make this kind of power, which is why I want to wait for the 16X renesis to come out before making this decision (minimum weight would rise to 2,760lbs).

i can think of a couple of turbo's off the top of my head that will support 400whp flow, AND make positive manifold pressure well under 3,000rpms... hell, even under 2500. these arent any big secret either, they've been all over the forum...

i ve always have had an open invitation for anyone to ride with me and see what its like as well,,,
ohh and aaron i will haz 13psi soon:evil_laug

....... :evil_laug

While I understand why this could be very true, one thing you can almost never tune out completely is turbo lag (w/o adding an expensive anti-lag system).

With a minimum weight requirement of 2,700lbs (2 rotor 13B w/ FI) in Street Mod, I'd want a FI that would be able to produce at least 400-420whp with as little lag as possible. I'm not aware of any s/c system that's currently able to make this kind of power, which is why I want to wait for the 16X renesis to come out before making this decision (minimum weight would rise to 2,760lbs).

Andy and Erik seem to be doing OK with a single turbo in SSM. :dunno:

Just put Andy's engine and trans in a SM RX-8. :)

This years winner:
Thanks, everyone, for the encouraging comments!

I just want to point out that you don't need huge power for a competitive SM car. I'm at 300 hp and 270 tq on the Dynapack dyno at Church Automotive, and the car weighed in between 2597 and 2606 on the scales at Nationals.

From STU, the basic package includes the flares, motor, tuning, stiffer springs, AST 5200s, composite hood and trunk, aluminum doors, a slew of small weight reduction efforts (like yanking out the back seat) and 285s. I still think the 245s on narrower wheels would be quicker on highly transitional courses.

Mike

Clearly you have no understanding what turbo lag is.

clearly you have nothing of value to add to this thread.

clearly you have nothing of value to add to this thread.

I'm correcting ignorance. You're blowing smoke up my ass.

all snails are made from crushed up puppies

all blowers are made from used soda cans

unless your AFR is exactly 14.2 you'll blow your motor

all FI cars will blow up their engines at some point

one thing you can almost never tune out completely is turbo lag

These would be examples of me just saying things without giving any information to back them up... aka "blowing smoke up someone's ass".

i can think of a couple of turbo's off the top of my head that will support 400whp flow, AND make positive manifold pressure well under 3,000rpms... hell, even under 2500. these arent any big secret either, they've been all over the forum...

Alright, in fairness, yes they can make positive pressure, but even some of the overly sized turbos can make positive pressure at low rpm, they just won't be in full boost for some time.

Also, a turbo may be capable of hitting 400 whp worth of flow, but hitting that target reliably on a Renesis motor isn't easy at all; lag aside. I mean, in all of the boosted cars on this forum we have had -1- dyno that is over 400 whp and the car was running E85 with a mod sheet longer than my arm.

Edit: Just to clarify, I'm not bashing you paul, or arguing with anyone... I just get nervous when people say 400+ whp on a Renesis because its a major task with this motor.

Andy and Erik seem to be doing OK with a single turbo in SSM. :dunno:

Just put Andy's engine and trans in a SM RX-8. :)

This years winner:
Thanks, everyone, for the encouraging comments!

I just want to point out that you don't need huge power for a competitive SM car. I'm at 300 hp and 270 tq on the Dynapack dyno at Church Automotive, and the car weighed in between 2597 and 2606 on the scales at Nationals.

From STU, the basic package includes the flares, motor, tuning, stiffer springs, AST 5200s, composite hood and trunk, aluminum doors, a slew of small weight reduction efforts (like yanking out the back seat) and 285s. I still think the 245s on narrower wheels would be quicker on highly transitional courses.

Mike
Good info Isley. While Andy's engine would be a legal swap, his trans would not be based on my understanding of the rule book. Since the RX-8 comes with a 6MT, wouldn't I need to use a trans with a similar number of forward gears in SM? Good info on Mike's car -- hadn't come across that before.

Blackenedwings kinda touched on what I was getting at a few posts up. I agree wholeheartedly that a NA 20B would be a good way to have a powerful lag-free rotary. However, I wasn't aware that 20B's were able to hit 400+whp w/o a peripheral port? I didn't think peripheral ports were legal in Street Mod...but instead allowed in the Prepared classes??? Either way, even if they were legal, I'd want my car to remain very streetable, and a peripheral port would be completely out of the question for my tastes/preferences of what I could drive on the street.

Also, in Street Mod a n/a 20B would carry a higher minimum weight, make it harder to meet sound at strict sites, and be a potentially heavier mass sitting near the nose of the car compared to a 2 rotor with FI. All minuses in the world of autocross imho...

One other thing I'll add, I've never once said in this thread that one form of FI was better than the other. I've only talked about my experiences/preferences. I've owned two turbo cars before and loved them. I can accept that others will have a different point of view, please respect the fact that I can have a different opinion for what I'd want to drive in an autocross setting.

mysql101, while I may be ignorant in the world of forced induction rotaries, I'm not behaving like a jackass who adds nothing to a thread other than insults. You're not correcting ignorance, b/c I've yet to see a single meaningful contribution from you. Either way, even if you did start adding sound information, why would anyone want to listen to someone who presents themselves in this manner??? If you chose to stay in this thread, please quit with the insults...mkay?

I just get nervous when people say 400+ whp on a Renesis because its a major task with this motor.

agreed :)

agreed :)
Exactly. Which is why I don't want to go down this path until I can either afford a proper Renesis built for forced induction (Pettit rebuild with larger intake and exhaust ports) and/or until the 16X Renesis is available (and the viability of this engine for FI is determined).

Exactly. Which is why I don't want to go down this path until I can either afford a proper Renesis built for forced induction (Pettit rebuild with larger intake and exhaust ports) and/or until the 16X Renesis is available (and the viability of this engine for FI is determined).

cool :) Be aware that with the current blower being used, you wont get near 400 wheel without some serious charge cooling(ie injection) hell, you'll be spraying something to do that with any of the TC 'm thinking of too, but not necessarily as a matter of necesity - now that i think of it, I can't remember if you said that was a target, or if it was just an arbitrary #

also, exhaust ports are whats limiting the motor in terms of flow capacity right now, and unfortunately they cant get any larger. you can reshape them to a degree and yes technically increase their size, but only on the miniscule of scales.

cool :) Be aware that with the current blower being used, you wont get near 400 wheel without some serious charge cooling(ie injection) hell, you'll be spraying something to do that with any of the TC 'm thinking of too, but not necessarily as a matter of necesity - now that i think of it, I can't remember if you said that was a target, or if it was just an arbitrary #

also, exhaust ports are whats limiting the motor in terms of flow capacity right now, and unfortunately they cant get any larger. you can reshape them to a degree and yes technically increase their size, but only on the miniscule of scales.
Understood. 400whp was a target that I was given in a discussion about a street mod RX-8 with Jason Rhoades (national champion) earlier this year. This was a hp target that he felt the car needed to achieve based on it's minimum weight in the class.

IIRC, Juan (marsreder100) got 330whp and 214 wtq at 9.6psi of boost on his Pettit s/c kit. He's currently hitting 2-3 psi higher, so it'll be interesting to see what his new numbers will be whenever he gets around to re-dyno'ing the car.

Edit, here's his dyno plot:

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm205/doorcombo/Graph.jpg

Actually I believe those dynos were achieved at 11.6psi, our pulley is limited to 13psi so thats the difference in boost,,, in addition he has a very long list of supporting mods, ie upgrade ignition, W/M, headers, etc etc etc...

Actually I believe those dynos were achieved at 11.6psi, our pulley is limited to 13psi so thats the difference in boost,,, in addition he has a very long list of supporting mods, ie upgrade ignition, W/M, headers, etc etc etc...
Well, this is from the horse's mouth...

Well guys and girls I took the car this morning for a dyno test after my last mods. Everything looked promising to brake the 400 whp but to my and Bastage disappointment my car was only able to achieve 327 whp on the first pull and 330 whp on the second. I think all the time spent researching and mods trials did not come to fruition. I’m contemplating listing the car on eBay…NOT! :wiggle:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jk99SuPrCp8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtINFMTOUdY

9.6 psi on 3rd gear dyno.

11.3 psi on 4th gear on the highway.

12 psi on 5th gear on the highway. :eyetwitch

Link: http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=127674&page=155

shit your rigth I was going off what Norm told me Juan barely comes on here anymore,,,

Juan does have the nicest dyno plots I've seen with a S/C on this car though, decent torque, and great power. Hell, he has as much torque as my gimp dyno runs. Granted I was dynoed with a faulty MAF and only 8.5 psi, but still impressive for a S/C and the curve is sick. I would love to take a ride in that car.

our s.c's are also loving this cool weather! 40F on the way to work this a.m. and I am almost at the 1K break in on my new engine--oil was at 160F and I said to myself---"WTF--lets do this" Everyone prob knows I have never dyno'ed but I have driven a lot and I KNOW I am over 300hp (at least this morning i was) I can tell you that---3nd and 4 th gears were amazing--didnt even try 1st and 2nd.
Guys --one thing that hasnt been talked about is that once you get over 300hp with this chassis--you have some chassis work to do! And I am not talking about just installing coilovers/bars. It will drive ok if you do just those things but to really get it down, a diff brace and motor mounts need addressing at minimum.
OD

shit your rigth I was going off what Norm told me Juan barely comes on here anymore,,,
No worries. That thread is almost 300 pages long and the details are easy to forget. I've just been following it closely for personal reasons. If he's able to get to 12psi on the dyno, he should see ~410whp/260wtq (both numbers are eerily close to the whp and wtq numbers for a well-tuned motorsports version of a n/a 20B).

However, even if he's able to make a 400+whp dyno pull, I'd then need to know what peak boost can be reached in 2nd gear -- as that's the gear I'd use 95% of the time in autocross.
Juan does have the nicest dyno plots I've seen with a S/C on this car though, decent torque, and great power. Hell, he has as much torque as my gimp dyno runs. Granted I was dynoed with a faulty MAF and only 8.5 psi, but still impressive for a S/C and the curve is sick. I would love to take a ride in that car.
He definitely does. I know he's mentioned that his car isn't tuned for the W/M injection. He just has it on there for "insurance" against detonation. He also made these numbers on pump 93. Not sure how much rotaries might benefit from race gas, but it's allowed in autocross in any class (as is E85).

While his mod list is relatively long, all of his mods are legal for the Street Mod class. Some might be necessary, others might not. The main thing I'm told about why he makes the numbers that he does (over Bastage's car for instance) is due to his upgraded headers.

No worries. That thread is almost 300 pages long and the details are easy to forget. I've just been following it closely for personal reasons. If he's able to get to 12psi on the dyno, he should see ~410whp/260wtq (both numbers are eerily close to the whp and wtq numbers for a well-tuned motorsports version of a n/a 20B).



yeah before I got mine it was only 150pgs long and I have notes that I took 8 pgs long on the thread, questions to ask who to ask, once I did the install the notes stopped but I still read, and try to follow Denny's mad science projects,,,

Most people don't know even a single person with a FI RX-8, let alone multiple types of forced induction in their area, so there aren't a lot of people with experience with them both. Rotr8 and I live in the same area and go to a lot of the same meets though, so if anybody is in the MD/Tri-state area you are more than welcome to go for a ride in my car. It would be even better if Jeff would ever finish tuning it...


:sadwavey:, Uh, I'm usually in Columbia if I'm going to DICK'S SPORTING GOODS.

we know you are in the area you never come out to any of the meets though,,,

Mahhhhaaaaammmaaaahh --I am a madman--probably been inhaling all that polyurethane and microscopic aluminum dust too long and I have a mixture of hallucinogentic delirium/ and alzheimers. I do have interesting conversation with my jack Russells though. Here kitty kitty kitty. What? Huh?
Damn have to get back to work--cant even enjoy your psychosis anymore without someone butting in.
OD

our s.c's are also loving this cool weather! 40F on the way to work this a.m. and I am almost at the 1K break in on my new engine--oil was at 160F and I said to myself---"WTF--lets do this" Everyone prob knows I have never dyno'ed but I have driven a lot and I KNOW I am over 300hp (at least this morning i was) I can tell you that---3nd and 4 th gears were amazing--didnt even try 1st and 2nd.
Guys --one thing that hasnt been talked about is that once you get over 300hp with this chassis--you have some chassis work to do! And I am not talking about just installing coilovers/bars. It will drive ok if you do just those things but to really get it down, a diff brace and motor mounts need addressing at minimum.
OD
what about an engine torque damper? that should help...I've been meaning to buy one. I think I will. :)

no.

Actually yes :)

I know Bastage and marsredr100 continually invite the local TC guys to come out for shoot outs and to this date non of them have bothered to show up,,,

And incorrect, I have been out to a few of the MSCC autocrosses that Juan participates in and we always seem to be opposing schedules.

Just recently I went to Gainsville invited Juan and he was unavailable with his car.

No biggie, there will be a another day.

And I will be at Roebling Road in Nov and unfortunately Olddragger will be in attendance but will not be running his car because it is not 100% broken in.

Oh well maybe another S/C will step up to plate.

Here is a vid way back at an MSCC event Juan was not in attendance unfortunately.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvB9lTKnJVc

This was done on completely stock suspension so the car was a bit sloppy.

Now being dialed in suspension wise we as a team are actually going to be competting on a national level in SCCA but that is still up in the air.

And our skill set as Drivers needs more seat time with the new setup. The car drives like it is on rails with the GTSPEC bracing that it has now so it is taking some getting used to.

Also to recap a car doesn't mean shit on the AutoX either BT or SC, the driver makes the car perform not the car making the driver perform.

^lol! I was just joking.

How many of you guys have driven both?
How about several examples of both?
How about several examples of both in an "unrestricted" environment?

I didn't think so.

Everything I have read so far about "linear" - here AND elsewhere - is completely wrong. Everything. Pro and con.
No one here knows what the hell they are talking about. Plain and simple.
Same goes for "turbo lag", which, so far, no one has even defined correctly.
Boost onset is NOT turbo lag.

Flame away. I don't care.

our s.c's are also loving this cool weather! 40F on the way to work this a.m. and I am almost at the 1K break in on my new engine--oil was at 160F and I said to myself---"WTF--lets do this" Everyone prob knows I have never dyno'ed but I have driven a lot and I KNOW I am over 300hp (at least this morning i was) I can tell you that---3nd and 4 th gears were amazing--didnt even try 1st and 2nd.
Guys --one thing that hasnt been talked about is that once you get over 300hp with this chassis--you have some chassis work to do! And I am not talking about just installing coilovers/bars. It will drive ok if you do just those things but to really get it down, a diff brace and motor mounts need addressing at minimum.
OD

You are on the right track,....it really is sloppy with the car with the power kicking in like it does.

I finally can say I am content with the car, When I am up in Savannah in Nov we can go for a drive I will let you drive if you like I can show you what I had to do to nail that front end down. If you look in the videos it was challenging to keep it where you want it to go.

How many of you guys have driven both?
How about several examples of both?
How about several examples of both in an "unrestricted" environment?

I didn't think so.

Everything I have read so far about "linear" - here AND elsewhere - is completely wrong. Everything. Pro and con.
No one here knows what the hell they are talking about. Plain and simple.
Same goes for "turbo lag", which, so far, no one has even defined correctly.
Boost onset is NOT turbo lag.

Flame away. I don't care.

I completely agree Jeff, and I actually have driven both. No one has even come close to what it really is.

The S/C was refreshing but I had that for a red hot minute before I sold it to Macius8, I still would stick with the BT over the SC.

oh that's right... NOBODY on this forum is right about anything except for God himself, mazdamaniac. :worship: :cwm27:

Cant wait to finally see yall Race Roots--i will be mooning ya at turn 5!!
really has ticked me off that I cant track--it would have been great--no matter who ends up in front. I usually dont care about that. I learn more by trailing anyway.
We have to get side by side pics..

On the engine torque damper---its always better to do motor mounts and then if you need more then think about the Tq damper.
Our mm are crap for the track. Pretty good for the street but could be better.
Would love to drive it with you in the right seat and i will return the favor if you like.

OD

oh that's right... NOBODY on this forum is right about anything except for God himself, mazdamaniac. :worship: :cwm27:

How many SC and turbo RX-8s have you driven on the track? Tuned on the dyno? Driven on the street? Sat in?
Go ahead. Enlighten us.

Just because I'm informed doesn't make you stupid. Get over it.

Cant wait to finally see yall Race Roots--i will be mooning ya at turn 5!!
really has ticked me off that I cant track--it would have been great--no matter who ends up in front. I usually dont care about that. I learn more by trailing anyway.
We have to get side by side pics..

On the engine torque damper---its always better to do motor mounts and then if you need more then think about the Tq damper.
Our mm are crap for the track. Pretty good for the street but could be better.
OD

OD the 6 Point Brace from GTSPEC is the winning deal for anyone running over 300whp on the Track/AutoX. The Motor Mounts absolutely the Tq damper I don't think as much.

How many SC and turbo RX-8s have you driven on the track? Tuned on the dyno? Driven on the street? Sat in?
Go ahead. Enlighten us.

Just because I'm informed doesn't make you stupid. Get over it.
LOL!!!
it was a joke :)

By the way Brice when is that being shipped I put my order in three days ago and havent gotten a shipping confirmation,,,

LOL!!!
it was a joke :)

I'm laughing.
On the inside.
Where it counts. http://www.mazdamaniac.com/portal/smiles/hahano.gif

I'm laughing.
On the inside.
Where it counts.

the internet is fun.... :eyetwitch

By the way Brice when is that being shipped I put my order in three days ago and havent gotten a shipping confirmation,,,

Holy crap! Three whole days! OMG!

Saturday, Donny, is Shabbos, the Jewish day of rest. That means that I don't work, I don't get in a car, I don't f*cking ride in a car, I don't pick up the phone, I don't turn on the oven, and I sure as sh*t don't f*cking roll! Shomer shabbos!

Everything is not about f***ing Vietnam, Walter.
F*** it. Let's go bowling.

we know you are in the area you never come out to any of the meets though,,,

Shit, yea, I know.... When is the next meet lol?

By the way Brice when is that being shipped I put my order in three days ago and havent gotten a shipping confirmation,,,

End of October Early November, currently in production.

ok dude brings the stances--green light:) you have a better suggest?
od