I know, I know, the car is not about straight line performance. I get it. I love the RX-8 for exactly what it is, and isn't. That said, how viable would a shot of nitrous be with this engine? I was thinking about this the other day because I don't know if want a supercharger. I don't really think I would need the speed all the time, and with nitrous, I could just get that extra boost if the situation arose.

If it is possible, how much would be too much? 50 shot? 100 shot? Maybe even 150 shot? Inquiring minds want to know...

Nitros will work in any car, just have to tap into the intake somewhere.

I've never heard of anyone having trouble with a 50 shot and I think a 100 shot would also work.

The biggest issue with the RX-8 is that to drive it fast you need to drive it close to the redline. I talked with one of the people who drove it at Laguna Seca and he said he was hitting the fuel cut-off at 10K all the time.

And that is where the problem could arise. Your nitrous system needs to have some protection to prevent from spraying if you hit the fuel cut-off. Nitrous with little to no fuel is a bad combination.

-Mr. Wigggles

nitrous + air without fuel won't do anything... that's why it's "fuel cut" and not "fuel dangerously lean out"...

Shame on you Wakeech! I expected a technical breakdown about nitrous and rotaries...:p

N2O will due fine in the Rx8. As with all rotaries and forced induction, timing and fuel are critical. I am planning a direct port wet shot probably 60-75 shot. N2O is easy to use when installed correctly. You will also need to address timing issues as No engine especially a rotary likes to detonate. You dont want to put a gash in those pretty stainless rotors from a broken apex seal. Colder plugs will help too. Hope that helps and use NX Nitrous.

Kyle Lancaster--Double Agent Salesman

wakeech,

I did say "little to no fuel" (i.e. lean)

So, you're saying that it is O.K. to hit the fuel cut-off with the nitrous going?

-Mr. Wigggles

It is NOT ok to hit the fuel cut off during N2O runs. It will more than likely detonate your engine and blow an apex seal. You are better off getting some type of fuel cut defense or dont run nitrous. I have seen many rotaries die becuase of the fuel cut under boost leaning out the engine, and boom. Same with NOS. Just let off the juice at 7500 if you are worried. If you are still worried get a Jacobs Nitrous Mastermind, then if fuel pressure drops off, so does the NOS. Hope that helps

Kyle Lancaster--El Cajon Mazda Kia

i'd be much obliged to learn how that works, then if that's the case Kyle. :)

... i just can't see it combusting without a source of energy (fuel)...??

i think what he is saying wakeech is that even though you have just hit the cut off there is a moment when a little fuel may have gotten in so the fuel/ nitrous balance is way off.

Kyle,

That is what I've heard from all the ricers in my area:

[FOB accent]Nos at high RPM. Vely big time BOOM!!![/FOB accent]

Of coarse their solution is not to get an advanced nitrous system but just remove the fuel cut circuit. :)

-Mr. Wigggles

why are people so eager to destroy their cars?
giving your car nitrous is like giving it crack....

Do you believe that boosting your rotary through supercharging/turbo is "putting it on crack"? N2O does the same thing. It forces more air and fuel into the chamber(housings in this case), and when done at the correct air/fuel ratio with good timing (-2degrees every 50hp) you can have excellent results.Plus it isnt being used all the time either. People just throw N2O on becuase its cheap add no extra fuel and detonate like crazy and blow out apex seals. Same thing happens if you put a ghetto turbo kit for $637 and you kill your motor on 5 psi of boost. Its all about tuning. I run a 75-150 shot on a stock apex seal ported 12a. I have a 97gph pump for the carb, 114 gph gfor the N20, with MSD boxes and ign timing controll it is actuall quite nice.
Another thing is its Value Priced! I got a NX gemeni Twin that is 75-300Shot with a 15lb bottle, race solenoids, lines, plate, ect, New for $570. Thats less than $2 per hp not including extras, but the 300hp will kill my 12a, If you have a professional set it up for you, you will have great results.

Kyle Lancaster--Double Agent Salesman

Kyle,

You and me are gonna have to hook up man. I'm in SD too and I'd love to find a reliable, honest, quality after-market tuner when I get my 8. Anybody you can recommend?

Thanks,

RM

Originally posted by zoom44
i think what he is saying wakeech is that even though you have just hit the cut off there is a moment when a little fuel may have gotten in so the fuel/ nitrous balance is way off.

yes, but the same thing would happen, NOx or not, with regular fuel cut; if the engine leaned out in that fashion as you hit the rev limiter, kids who love to burn out their tyres like morons in first, just gunning it, would seize their engines every time they tried it. obviously, this isn't the case... not to mention that it mayn't be only fuel cut, but ignition cut as well. in that circumstance, i simply can't understand why this would happen.

Kyle?

nitrous is a fuel source, its very unstable, the slightest thing could set it off, sure its safe, but it doesnt need gasoline to explode.

so...i read about nitrous and i see 50 shot, 100 shot 150 shot, 200 shots even...wet shots and dry shots.

whut's all this mean? 50 shot is ...50cc's or something? and what's the difference between wet and dry

no, the 50shot, 100shot, etc refer to the approximate horsepower they would be adding, its a very rough approximation, but it gives some idea to the guys who want to install it. A wet system has the NO2 sprayed in after the Throttle Body and with the Fuel Injectors, hence, the wet part of the intake system. A dry system sprays the NO2 before the throttle body. A dry kit is usually cheaper, as it usually only includes one injector (sprayer), while wet kits are usually more elaborate, replacing the entire intake manifold, or adding a seperate block to it.

Originally posted by P00Man
nitrous is a fuel source, its very unstable, the slightest thing could set it off, sure its safe, but it doesnt need gasoline to explode.

what the hell would it be combusting with then??? :confused:

if it's indeed all N02/n2o4, or something like that (can someone elaborate on the chemistry??), how could it then combust by itself?? what lower state of energy could it reach if in contact only with gases like O2, CO2, N2, etc etc etc (atmospheric gases, none of which have high potential energy states)... this just doesn't make sense.

Originally posted by CraziFuzzy
no, the 50shot, 100shot, etc refer to the approximate horsepower they would be adding, its a very rough approximation, but it gives some idea to the guys who want to install it. A wet system has the NO2 sprayed in after the Throttle Body and with the Fuel Injectors, hence, the wet part of the intake system. A dry system sprays the NO2 before the throttle body. A dry kit is usually cheaper, as it usually only includes one injector (sprayer), while wet kits are usually more elaborate, replacing the entire intake manifold, or adding a seperate block to it.

ah hah! tnx =)

Originally posted by wakeech
what the hell would it be combusting with then??? :confused:

N2O breaks down at about 300C. Into nitrogen and oxygen. The oxygen greatly increases the rate of combustion, while the Nitrogen actually buffers the explosion a bit. This increase in oxygen levels produces the increase in power. N2O will not burn on it's own, and is rather safe (unless you are breathing it). An added bonus is the cooling effects of the compressed N2O expanding in the intake system. This drops intake temperature quite a bit, and when used in a turbo/sc system, can act as an intercooler, removing the heat of compression.

thanks Crazi,

Originally posted by CraziFuzzy
N2O breaks down at about 300C. Into nitrogen and oxygen. The oxygen greatly increases the rate of combustion, while the Nitrogen actually buffers the explosion a bit. This increase in oxygen levels produces the increase in power.

ah ha. i had the gas wrong. :) oh well, good to know.

this is what i've heard happens, but only at 300C, eh?? wow.

Originally posted by CraziFuzzy
N2O will not burn on it's own, and is rather safe (unless you are breathing it).

just as i'd thought. thanks then for that. so, as i was saying before then, hitting fuel + ingnition cut shouldn't do much other than waste a good amount of your N2O.

although it's a pretty cool, cheap, easy, and safe way to make some extra ponies, it's really more of a drag racing (and hence street racing) power adder... so, it's not for me. :)

As far as breathing it in....

all the nitrous used in automotive applications is nitrous+ which contains a sulfur additive to both give it a noticable smell <rareified NO2 is oderless>in case of a leak, and to make it impossible to inhale and abuse.

And nobody thinks NO2 is expencive, but they never considered how much it is to fill a bottle. raceing 2 nights a week, I would go though a 10 lb bottle in roughly 2 weeks, at 25 bucks a pop that means in a 4 month period i was spending about $200 on just NO2 alone. then on top of that, there are the bottle warmers, remote bottle openers, teflon hoses, VAFC, upgraged window switch...ect, ect.....it has cost me more than a turbo upgrade <ah, well>

N2O is the chem makeup two parts nitrogen 1 part oxygen, when it burns the molucules separate, the oyxgen makes more power by being mixed with the right amount of fuel. It is similar to how a turbo/supercharger force feeds air in, and air is only about 15% oxygen, whereas N20 is 33% oxygen. The wet shot is meaning you are adding fuel at the N20 nozzle, a DRY shot is when you are relying on the injectors to compensate for the extra oxygen from N20. When you hit the limiter & the fuel cuts out, it causes a lean situation and can detonate, possibly causing serious engine damage. Hope that helps. And yes it does have sulfur in small amounts for automotive uses to deter inhaling, and it is a bitch to refill, that is why I have a 15lb bottle, looks like a scooba tank.

Kyle Lancaster--Double Agent Salesman

i dont know if there is a nitrous thread allready, i did a search and couldnt find anything.
i was wondering whats the deal with nitrous and rotarys?? i understand nitrous with piston engines, but it is obviousley going to be different with rotarys.
and does anyone spray or is anyone planning to spray on their renesis??
pro's, cons, whatever!

andrew

I woulded recommend it

but yes you could use nitrous on a rotary just like a pistion engine

however, bye bye warranty

You probably have less of a chance of blowing a rotary than you do with a piston engine since there are fewer moving parts, plus constant one way motion.

Vin Diesel did it in Fast & the Furious on his RX7. For some people that movie is the bible.

yeah, they should change religions then. One thing that can be learned from F&F is that if I want a real stealthy fast car to evade cops and be difficult to identify I should put bright green neons under black civics and drive around at night. Open up a book for christ sake.

You mean "Fast and Furious" wasn't a documentary?!?:eek:

what about the skyline in 2fast, 2furious---sweeettt

I saw most of those cars at shows in LA

Check out the new dry spray/air filter combo.Looks to make throwing on the spray a piece of cake.Comments im really thinking about ordering one.
www.zex.com

old news....seriously like last year. It's a nice system though. ZEX is the only N20 I'd use on my daily driver. It's got 3 different saftey catches in case something should fail. Also, if the 8 is running rich like the MSP Protege does then the N20 shot will yield more power. i.e. a 50 shot would produce something like 60-65hp. I built a 1990 Taurus SHO with a zex kit and it was a beast. 255lph fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, accel injectors...my 100 shot put down almost 120hp due to all the extra fuel. Also ZEX is much easier to install due to not having solenoids. Just find a good location for the NMU and run your lines, thats it. very cool, very affordable power.

p.s. 1990 Taurus 3.0L V6, 1/8mile 8.52s @ 78mph.
Not bad for a 13yr old familt barge.

yea the zex kit is a good safe/reliable kit from what i have heard....im more of a NX man myself but i am starting to like the zex stuff
has anyone ever used the venom kit? it comes with a palm pilot! haha it looks like fun but its around 2k :-(

andrew

some venom kits are cheaper. They are all computer controlled, hence the palmpilot, but they are VERY effective. I would only recommend the Venom for someone with serious coin to invest in a HIGH dollar car. When critical tuning is the most improtant thing you're looking for then Venom is the best. However for $450 you can ZEX it up in the morning and be racing that night. As I mentioned earlier it is the safest I've seen/used. As far as their "air amplifier" nozzle. It's nice if you don't wish to cut the intake tubing to tap the nozzle, but I preffered always mounting mine out of sightjust in front of the throttle body. The closer to the TB the better. The amplifier is as far away from the TB as you can get. Not the best location, but better than nothing if you're opposed to cutting the intake plumbing.

Im just looking for some cheap power till FI options arrive.That dry shot in the air filter thing not only looks cool,but makes for an easy install.

Thats true. I prefer the hidden nozzle/wire set-up over ease of installation, but this may be best for you. Also, I'm new to the rotary engine, but I've seen several people use nitrous with great results. For piston engines the only two things needed to insure most power were: greater fuel supply ( N20 doesnt make power, the gas makes the power) and to verify that the nitrous or fuel won't puddle in the intake manifold. That wasa big problem with a wet shot that wasn't direct injection on the SHO. Just check with the rotor experts before taking my advice.

Interesting. Sounds almost too good to be true.

How about (evil grin) FI and this? :-)

i thought this was a nitrous thread......not a fast and furious flames thread. not to sound like a meanie poo, but i have heard wayyyyyyyy too many fast and furious jokes, i knoe the movie was corny, but it seems like ill never hear the end of it. anyone else agree with me?

Originally posted by mikeb
what about the skyline in 2fast, 2furious---sweeettt

I saw most of those cars at shows in LA

They have a few of em on display at Universal Studios. The bright pink S2000 has to be one of the most horrific mod-jobs I've ever seen. :)

Can anyone say hijacked thread?

hijack thread

Originally posted by djmano
i thought this was a nitrous thread......not a fast and furious flames thread. not to sound like a meanie poo, but i have heard wayyyyyyyy too many fast and furious jokes, i knoe the movie was corny, but it seems like ill never hear the end of it. anyone else agree with me?

when we get replies like this:

Originally post by Zio
You probably have less of a chance of blowing a rotary than you do with a piston engine since there are fewer moving parts, plus constant one way motion.

...how can it not get off topic, and onto the topic of the biggest joke about performance enthusiasm ever??

my threads been hijacked :-(
hehe


andrew

its all good....haha but serioulsley, whats evryones thoughts on the old N20??


andrew

True you have a lesser chance of blowing the engine in a rotary with nitrous but the apex seals will likely go.

Originally posted by Greg
True you have a lesser chance of blowing the engine in a rotary with nitrous but the apex seals will likely go.

...the hell're you talking about???

ya see, this is exactly the kind of junk we don't need in a serious thread.

if ever again you have a question like this, post it in the Tech Garage section where we get the more technically serious of the forum checking more frequently.

I trying to figure out how you have less of a chance of the engine blowing even though the apex seals may blow. The logic, if you can call it that, of this one just puzzles me.

Nitrous can actually be used very effectively on a rotary engine. The proble is that too many people just slap on the good lod laughing gas and go for it not even taking into account added fuel or timing retardation (and perhaps user?). The key to a good nitrous setup is the same as it is with anything else. It is all in the tuning. Be realistic in your expectations. Don't expect to throw on a 200 shot and go racing. It has actually been done but there was much work. Never ever use a "dry" shot on a rotary or any other engine for that matter. this is just asking for a lean condition. You need fuel too. Only a "wet" shot is to be used. Now we need to make sure that your fuel system is up to your goals. The RX-8 has a returnless fuel system that uses no fuel pressure regulator. The car's ecu bases pressure through the fuel pump and supplies the necessary amount of fuel per what it determines are it's needs. On the RX-8 I would suggest either waiting for a good aftermarket system to interface with the cars ecu such as the Venom kit or to run a seperate fuel pump, regulator, and lines solely for the nitrous system. Then you need to address amount of nitrous. I'd run a progressive controller from Holley. This allows you to delay the full nitrous onset and let it gradually increse. It can be anywhere from a few milliseconds to a few seconds. This reduces the stress on the seals and makes it more gradual. A sudden hard hit is a huge instant temperature change as well as a huge pressure change in the engine. This is bad for the seals. If you intend to try really big shots then use a multistage system with a progressive controller. I'd rather try to limit the extreme end at about 125 shot or so max with a progressive just to be safe and this only assumes you have accounted for everything and are not just bolting it on. Now that you have nitrous control and fuel out of the way, how are you going to control the timing? There are 2 ways. One is proactive and one is retroactive. The only proactive way is to find a way to modify the ecu signal or replace the ecu entirely. This is the safest but most complex and expensive way to do it. It would also enable you to set up everything else for any mods. the retroactive way would be to install a box that retards timing when it senses that the engine is nearing detonation. I can't think of the company name who makes one right now but many RX-7 turbo people use them. They are about $600 or so but work very well. In the end by the time you are done, a nitrous system isn't any cheaper or easier than forced induction. Anytime you do something properly it never is cheap. Yes you can slap on a small nitrous kit for fairly cheap and maybe get good results but is the risk worth it? I hope this helps and I hope we got back on track.

jeez wakeech get over yourself. I just meant that the rotors themselves probably wouldn't crack like a piston or rod would.

Originally posted by Greg
I just meant that the rotors themselves probably wouldn't crack like a piston or rod would.

then say that. non-sensical, incomplete and grammatically incorrect sentances do little to tell others what you're trying to say.

in any case, we've finally got a good reply from rotarygod. :) thanks guy.

Nitrous is great if you setup and design the proper system for your vehicle. Mainly all you hear from people these days is Nitrous is BAD cuz it will blow your engine... only idiots shoot way too much for their engine in order for your engine to break. First of all there are TONS of misconceptions dealing with n2o especially when the media and hollywood exploit them further and further from reality.

Nitrous like any forced induction requires tuning, design, and proper care. People that abuse it or do stupid things like heat up their bottle over the designated PSI are the ones that blow their cars up literally. I have yet to encounter anyone that has blown an engine due to nitrous if their setup was correct.

Nitrous Express is technologically superior and better quality IMO. Venom is also quite nice but very complex which is safer, but not for n2o newbies.

they dont have one specific for an RX8, can you just throw anyone on? I wouldnt think so, but I have no clue anyway. Also, does using N2O damage the engine?

Running n2o in an untuned rotary is like playing Russian roulette. Piston engines are more tolerant to knocking than rotaries. Leaning out is fatal 99.9% of the time in a rotary. Just go over to rx7club.com and you'll find thread after thread where lean conditions have blown engines. Luckily older 13b's are readily available but its going to be a while before you can get a RENESIS. It would suck to have your car sit in a shop for 6 months waiting on an engine. The car has been out for 3 months; give the tuners a little time to R&D their wares.

Originally posted by Superfan
Piston engines are more tolerant to knocking than rotaries. Leaning out is fatal 99.9% of the time in a rotary. Just go over to rx7club.com and you'll find thread after thread where lean conditions have blown engines.

please do some actual reading and know your stuff before opening your mouth. find one of those blown engines that wasn't turning +12 psi on a turbo: that forum is the gathering place of performance elites, and thus a gathering place of those who are extremely hard on their equipment. a 50 shot of nitrous would be extremely hard pressed to outstrip any engine.

every real expert on this forum has knocked this engine at least a little (canzoomer admits to more than a little) and it's been fine.

Originally posted by wakeech
please do some actual reading and know your stuff before opening your mouth. find one of those blown engines that wasn't turning +12 psi on a turbo:


Easy there big fella. Can we agree that a rotary is more likely to fail than a piston engine under a lean condition? FI or NA, a lean A/F will cause detonation. My FC had 210k on it when it went south so the engine was already due. Regardless, on a cold night in Florida (45F, that's summer for you) I went WOT on an incline and I swear it didn't knock for more than 1 sec and poof went the engine. My FD (downpipe, midpipe, catback, boost controller, IC, etc..) running stock boost (10psi) saw spikes up to +15psi several times. It took the knocking like a champ and didn't pop. My friends FC (back in 95, car was a 91) /w 43k (no mods) had a clogged fuel filter, knocked under WOT and popped the engine.

These cars run rich so they "should" handle a 50 shot. But if anything were to go wrong, you'll have voided the warrantee and popped the engine. It's a 30k car that's been out for three months. If you want to slap a 50 shot on and chance it, by all means, it's your car. As for me, well waiting +2 years for Mazda to make this car makes you a patient man. I can certainly wait a few more months while the aftermarket R&Ds their stuff.


FD: M3 ECU 12psi Lean and Pop
http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=233511&highlight=lean

FC: Running 75 Shot successfully
http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=233262&highlight=lean

thanks efini 8 for a knowledgable response,i run a n20 set up on my drag car thats fairly sophisticated in saftey(timing retards,low fuel pressure shut off,etc)only a speculation but i think the right kit could run a 50 hp shot safley on the 8 but just have to wait and see.

Well being broke right now and seriously wanting to get back into a RX-SOMETHING i'm thinking of getting another 2nd gen untill I can afford my rx-8(haven't had a rotary for about 4 years now). How would this zex system work on a stock 88 or 89 NA RX-7? I assume there is more concrete data/opinions on this than the 8.

A rotary engine may fail arfter pinging once or it may ping a hundred times and be just fine. You never know. Some of the aftermarket seal companies make some very strong seals that are very tolerant of detonation. Since the Renesis has all new seals it will be interesting to see how it stands up to detonation. The apex seals are shorter and that may play a big part of it. The fact is that nitrous is absolutely no different than adding forced induction. Both types will detonate and fail if not done properly. The problem is that movies like the F&F make people go out and slap a bottle on only to see their seals shoot out the tail pipe. Tuning is everything regardless of what it is. The stock ecu is tuned like crap. Imagine how much better the car would run if it were done properly. To say that leaning out is fatal 99.9% of the time in rotaries is a pretty high number than I'm sure isn't in writing or documented anywhere. The fact is that that statement can apply to forced induction as well. A more accurate statement would be that impatience and lack of understanding are fatal more often. Run a non turbo rotary lean and it will love you for it. You'll get better gas mileage and to a point better power. Pinging is almost not even a concern on an n/a and is almost never fatal. It is much more fatal when there is alot more pressure in the combustion chamber ala forced induction or nitrous. Very high temperatures of forced induction may also accentuate this problem as well as a very sudden burst of cold from nitrous. Sudden major temperature variations also put stress on seals. Adding fuel to the mix is also half of it. You also need to be able to control the timing.

1 word....

ZEX

Originally posted by m0j0
1 word....

ZEX


YESS!!! THE MORE THE BETTER! :D

Oh wait, what are we talking about? ;)

Im becoming very impatient waiting for the turbo's to come out and after some research i have decided i may try and go with a nice bottle of N2O for my 8.

After thinking about this thought, i decided this could go both ways, bad or good. N2O cools acording to a few web-sites i found. And I see that the Rotary does get hott fast. And i also read that this is only bad for your car if you "Shoot too high".

im just wondren if this is a good idea, and if any of this stuff is true. I really wana get a turbo, but sumthen tells me that it will not be possible till im in colege!

Please help my stupid @$$!

just relax

its not even 2004 yet
wait a month or so

Be patient... NOS is quite risky right now with all the unknowns with the fuel map. Not worth losing an engine and voiding the warranty.

No Nos...

mileb said exactly what I was thinking. You are driving a 2004 car and it is still 2003! Why are you impatient? Do you really plan to buy the first kit on the market or are you willing to wait a couple of years and see what else develops?

The key to running nitrous effectively is in the tuning. Tuning is more critical than the amount you are using. You can blow the engine up with a 10 shot if it is tuned wrong. I think it will be a bad idea in the cars current state to add to it. Like the turbos, wait until a kit arrives for it. That car is so computer controlled it probably kicks microchips out the exhaust. If you want to add nitrous now then you will need to be sure it is tuned properly. Heres how:

You'll need a new ecu. The factory ecu does a crappy job as is. It doesn't need to get complicated by adding nitrous to the mix. Plan on a really good system. Since you have a drive by wire system you'll need a Motec which can control this. Plan on a couple thousand here. You can go as simple as a Microtech for less than a grand but then you'll need to convert to cable throttle. You'll also need a new fuel pump, fuel lines, and a fuel regulator. The car has no fuel regulator or return fuel line. Based on computer info the fuel pump delivers the correct amount of fuel to the engine. Don't forget that with the new ecu you will not be able to pass inspection. Now you'll need the nitrous setup. I'd only use some kind of progressive controller such as the one that Holley sells. You'll need to bend your own lines, pick your own jets, etc. It MUST be a wet shot. Then you have to get it tuned right. Once you've done all of this the car will probably be fast as hell. Of course you have now spent several thousand dollars. The other nitrous option is to wait for a company like Venom to make their kit for the car that controls air/ fuel ratio and timing to accomodate the amount you want to use. If for some reason the nitrous backfires into the intake, kiss that upper platic intake manifold goodbye!

Waiting doesn't sound that hard now does it?

I say go for it! Someone has to be a guinea pig. Let us know how it works out.

LOL, yea i wanted to put NOS on the 8, but rotary now discouraged me. I dont know i REALLY want a turbo kit for the 8, so i dont know Greddy might come out with that turbo kit for the 8 soon! and when they do im guna be the first to install that sucker.

Best read up on the few threads concerning NOS...


Whoa boy Whoa!!....patience....

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13763

Just ask yourself if you are willing to take the risk of detroying your engine and or drive train.

If you are willing to take the risk and fork out the subsequent replacement cost of new engine, transmission, diff, etc - go for it!

Just don't come crying back saying "my terrible engine blew up" without being honest about exactly what you did to it.

It may sound harsh, but most professional tuners have years of experience and typically offer conservative add ons with some form of warranty.

I'd wait!

Hopefully no one interprets me ask a nitrous hater. I'm not. I'd love to see a good nitrous kit, Whipple based supercharger kit, and turbo kits all arive for the RX-8. The key to all of them is in the tuning. With the crazy ecu the cars have right now it would be dangerous to try any of these routes until the ecu problems are figured out. Once they are, people are going to have lots of fun! There was a saying we had when I worked in retail car audio that applies well here. "Be patient and do it right or don't be patient and do it again".

wow..rotary, thats really wierd...i had that exact quote on a poster that hung on one of the walls in our installation bay...i totally agree!!.

Add a direct port or at least a wet n2o setup. I'm guessing that anyone who blows their engine with nitrous did not know what they were doing. They went dry and expected the ecu to be happy or they overdid the n2o.

Thanks for the Help guys, but my situation is pissen me off. Im getting alota race offers at school, and i got my ass wooped by my best friend's WRX w/ sum mods... and that just pisses me off, i wana win!

Im going to college in less-than 2 years, and i wana enjoy my "pride and joy" by woopen the shyt outa ppl! (college= 1-3 years w/o the 8 in the winter)

How long is the Waranty on the 8 again? What should i do? I WANA PUT HP ON MY BABY!

--oh yea, sory if i seem FU(ked up bout this... but all this talk and rummor about turbos, Intake (what does that do w/o turbo?), ect, is really gettin to me.

Next time someone wants to race you do it where it counts, on an autocross track. Anyone can make any car fast in a straight line. Anyone can drive in a straight line too. Not every car or every person can drive around a corner though.

I personally don't care when someone wants to race me. I am more mature than that. You didn't buy that car for all out speed. You bought it because it is the coolest car available right now. If you wanted speed for that price you should have bought an LS1 Camaro. You wouldn't be as cool looking though. I've learned that high school kids who want to race typically aren't worth racing in the first place. I KNOW I can drive good. I've done it longer than they have. I'm not the one with anything to prove so why do I need to race? Their opinion of me is worthless anyways.

I changed my mind. Go for the NOS.

Originally posted by ranger4277
I changed my mind. Go for the NOS.

What made you change your mind?

Rotarygod - I BOUGHT this car yes because it's kick ass cool, but Auto-X requires people to be 18 or 21 years-old i think (I'm 17 in Feb.). Im also a person that loves glory, and nobody is gona come a hour away from home to see sumthen that wont last long! IS IT A CRIME TO WANT YOUR CAR TO GO FAST? And f.y.i: i hate hearing people talk about the RX-8 being as fast as the RSX(s), I'm tryen to keep up the 8's name in my area!

Any car can be cool, but people will never see that shiney thing back in the dust!

oh yea, so what u all think?:)

You aren't even 18 yet! Holy crap I wish I'd have had a cool car at that age. I was always told that you could autocross provided that you had a valid drivers license. There are more events than just the SCCA events. Here the Porshe club and the BMW club both hold events. Their rules are less strict as well.

Nope, not a crime to want a faster car. It should be a crime to modify your car improperly. Nothing better to brag about at school then how you blew up your brand new car when you changed something. You'll never hear the end of that. There's more glory at the end of the day by keeping them wondering than by towing your car home. Also consider that it is because of the pathetic viagra like egos of people that street racing has gotten so deadly. I'm sorry but until you have driven for at least 5 years, you are a novice! Kids think they can drive great but I can go to any local highschool and prove 99.9% of them flat wrong. I see the way they drive after school, how they cut people off, how they don't yield to others, how they try to race everything from a Porsche to a little old lady with a walker. I know it's true because I was a kid once and I drove like that too. Then I grew up and learned how to drive. There are reasons why insurance rates are higher for kids and this attitude proves it. When I turned 18 my insurance went down 10%. When I turned 21 it went down 50%. When I turned 25 it went down 50%. WOW what a difference. I have 3 cars now, full coverage and I pay $150 and month. I consider that a little high too. It was twice that as a teenager for just 1 car!

I hate to be the bearer of realism but the RSX, and the stock WRX are just as fast as the RX-8. Sorry man. They have been out longer than the RX-8 and the aftermarket support is much greater. The WRX can be much faster for almost no money at all. That is the advantage of a turbo. I know which car is better in the twisties though and that is yours. I personally think that the RX-8 is the best looking too. The RSX looks like a little bubbly windup toy. The WRX is just a standard Impreza family car with a little makeup. Yay (sarcasm in the voice of Ben Stein).

Why do you care what others think of your car? I know why. Hormones. Trust me that's it. I've been there. Wait until a propely designed kit comes out and then show them up. You can wait. Like I said you aren't even driving in 2004 yet but your car is a 2004 model. Get over it. If you can't and absolutely have to beat them with a rotary, go buy an RX-7. The 3rd gen is still one if the sexiest cars ever made and is easy to go fast in.

I support a fast car. I like mods. I don't like doing them though until I know with absolute certainty what the outcome will be. If you blow the engine up, you will look really bad, everyone here will say we told you so and everyone at school will say your car sucks. Even if you fix it, the damage and opinions will be established. Is that worth the risk of waiting a few months? It isn't for me but then again I'm not the one with anything to prove to anyone.

I'm not hatin' on you. I'm just trying to be the voice of reason. Too many people ignore that voice and pay for it, sometimes horribly. Please don't become a statistic.

It was a sarcastic point I was making because your reason for wanting more power is stupid. More power is ok, but not for racing people at your high school. That is dumb.

Not to be taken personally, not my intent... once an older brother always an older brother I guess. :D

Whatever your solution for more power, do keep us informed. I know I am interested to hear how it goes. But to clarify my REAL answer is still: be patient and wait for a properly tuned turbo setup.

(you are very lucky to have a car like the 8 at 16)

TiTaniumRX8, you bought the wrong car. You should have bought an svt stang or an evo. By the way, you just opened yourself or a flaming. It's not that street racing is illegal, it's that you can hurt or kill someone innocent person. You might be the best driver in the universe but you have to remember you’re sharing the road with some really bad drivers. For example, lets say your racing your buddy and someone runs a light and you t-bone them. By default the accident is your fault and it doesn't matter if that person ran the light. If that person were to die, you're going to the big house /w a vehicular homicide charge. Then you'll have plenty of time to think about why you chose instant gratification over a human life. You might think, super your nuts, that’ll never happen to me. Well, I have a friend serving an 8 year bid for vehicular homicide for killing his fiancé. He wasn’t racing, just speeding about 15 mph over the speed limit, lost control and ran into a light pole. It can happen to anyone, it’s just a matter of time. If you can’t make it to a track, take it to a private road. That’s what I do. Just keep it off public streets.

i usually dont end up racing in the public streets thats just stupid (as if i need my insurace jacked up!), i see people on i-95 they high beam me and then they just past me and that about all they can do, but if i get to a back road usually by the railroad tracks by the cement factory now...thats our secret spot. we get together, we know what could happen, we do it anyways. but you still end up taking the same risk in a closed street than if you go out to your local track. I say if you can do it responsibly theres no reason why you shouldnt race, even if its not on the tracks.

rotarygod pretty much sumed it up........the rx-8 is not a dragster.

Dear TitaniumRX8,
Im currently 18, and there is no way a 16 year old could buy an RX8 HIMSELF, especially the one thats worth buying (the six speed, and if your parents made you get the auto, there is no hope for you to go fast, ever, at all, might as well get a PT cuiser). If I were you I would get over the fact that you just got your license and want to take part in the "underground culture" of street racing. Given, I do not have an extensive background in street racing, I know its not for young rich boys who just got a brand spankin new 33+k car from their daddy (you might as well have posted that you "bought" a 3 series BMW, almost the same price, equally as improbable). If you really think you can hold your own with the real street racers, those guys live for friday night so they can either A) beat someone in their car B) look good or C) beat the crap out of posers who have no idea whats going on and end up offending some guy who is going to jail next week (been there, not pretty). If you plan on just dragging your friends who also just got their licenses, how will you explain your actions to the officers when you cant apply the brakes fast enough to avoid the person crossing the street when you are going 70+mph? Or if you accidentally miss 5th and throw it into reverse, making your pretty new toy do a backflip? basically, keep it in your pants buddy, and if you cant get laid by driving the stock RX-8, you might as well sell it and invest the money in college, so you can become even more rich, and get a trophy wife. Didnt mean to bash you as bad as I did, but you set yourself up, and Its about time someone taught you a lesson son.

Hay TitaniumRX8

PLEASE DON'T BECOME STATISTIC!!!

You are way too lucky...at 17 and own the RX8!!!

Originally posted by rotarygod
I personally don't care when someone wants to race me. I am more mature than that. You didn't buy that car for all out speed. You bought it because it is the coolest car available right now. If you wanted speed for that price you should have bought an LS1 Camaro. You wouldn't be as cool looking though. I've learned that high school kids who want to race typically aren't worth racing in the first place. I KNOW I can drive good. I've done it longer than they have. I'm not the one with anything to prove so why do I need to race? Their opinion of me is worthless anyways.


I'm with you Rotary...

Hey kid, not knocking you or putting you down at all...god knows I was there as well when I was 17. I started my own Car Audio and Tuning store and thought I was a badass...yes at 17!!(with a little help from my parents of course). Anyway...grow up...to race is to become one with your car...you have to know it's limits and yours as well...who cares if some guy in a WRX blows you away..let him look like the high school racer wannabe he is...a racer knows his car, knows what he can accomplish, and definitely does it in an appropriate environment...don't be that guy that wraps his sweet ride around a pole because of an ego trip....let it go man...live to race another day...

Originally posted by djmano
rotarygod pretty much sumed it up........the rx-8 is not a dragster.

True...but theres nothign wrong with dragging your 8. I do it on accasion as i mentioned if i realy wanted dragging power hell i defintely woulda gotten an SVT cobra, or a mach 1. But this is what i have and i do with what i got.

Buster17- i know it seams crayz but the bill and insurence on the car do come to me. worken 2 jobs man.... secondly, your "street race culture" is not what im talking about, it's just haven fun at 2am on a closed off dead end/parking lot. that shyt is in china town (chicago) i think. and uh... 17 in 3 months plus parents let me behind the wheel at 13. getting laid is no prob, w/ or w/o the 8, College lol man i just got a decent (not great) but decent 29 on ACT and im in the 3.4/3.8 range for grades man... also lookin at offers for lacrosse. please rip on sum-1 who is actually what u were sayen. Cant help if my 16/17 y/o mind thinks like this... but im not the only one looken to put HP on my 8 for w/e reason. YET, IM NOT looken to make this car crayz fast, dont know what id do w/ it.

I know 16, unresponsible, ect... but i didnt start this to get ripped on (set myself up being 16 i guess though. :D )im maken a stop at one of the local performance stores to see whats up, thinkin a spoiler would be nice 2 keep me happy 4 a while. I'll keep u all informed. If any more suggestions from anyone, leme know.

Whatever, I dont care what you get for grades. I graduated from one of the best private high schools in the nation, and currently am enrolled in Boston College. It took alot more than an A- average and a mediocre ACT score to get in, so get a crackin'. Im sorry for the poor linguistics on my end, but Im SURE Ill see you out here soon enough. Dont waste money on a spoiler, you arent going fast enough to need the downforce. My best friend is a mechanical engineer, so let me know when you really want to make the 8 fast. Enough of this bickering. Listen to people like Rotarygod and such, they know more about the inner workings of the Renesis more than I do, but if you want to make it rediculously quick, do an engine swap to a 20b tripple rotor...then you can own any single WRX, Stang, Evo, whatever. keep your mind on what matters. sorry, i hate spoilers.

Aight! so... lets just have sum posts on N2O, Turbo's, and such now......

I wouldnt get the Spoiler for the actual effect.... more the look (the MS one i really like!)

check out canzoomers spot on the vendor forum. he has a cpu piggyback that will give a 25hp increase by fixing the bunk fuel maps mazda put on the 8. This kit is only $500 and your car will still pass emmisions AND get better gas milage.

Oh, and if you dont care about passing emmisions canzoomer is making another fuel map for non-street legal racers that will give 50-70hp

Read up on this....he is shipping his first batches soon so you may not need to wait for a turbo or any FI for a good hp increase.

Originally posted by Floyd
check out canzoomers spot on the vendor forum. he has a cpu piggyback that will give a 25hp increase by fixing the bunk fuel maps mazda put on the 8. This kit is only $500 and your car will still pass emmisions AND get better gas milage.

Oh, and if you dont care about passing emmisions canzoomer is making another fuel map for non-street legal racers that will give 50-70hp

Read up on this....he is shipping his first batches soon so you may not need to wait for a turbo or any FI for a good hp increase.

very nice! just checked it out!:D

The non street legal ECU (stage 2 w/cat delete pipe and sensors) runs 750$ and gives 45-55hp at the rear wheels. Def a place to start.

A good basic guide to stages of performance mods for the '8 is developing in this thread: http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14703

Dude, just wait till next year, by march im sure there will be enough mods on the market to make a educated choice. I think that a few months is worth the wait when your talking about one SWEET car, and personally, no NOS.

calm down man.. ive been waiting for turbos for the z for a year now and nothing yet :(

Really? I coulda sworn that Greddy just came out with a turbo setup for the 350Z... possibly even a twin turbo...

Omi.....

nope not yet...in R&D....Stillen I believe is the only one so far with a production FI kit for 350....and of course..mega $$$BLING$$$

and hood mods...

now back to the 8....

I say use nitrous if you have a qualified person set it up for you and install it. Nitrous is a great choice, but many uneducated have misconecptions of its usage. The majority of people have a concept of 'blowing up your engine' when using nitrous. A typical result for incorrect nitrous application, but however I suggest getting another car if you want to beat everyone in your school or whatever. Subaru WRX STi or Mitsubishi Evolution VIII. They will rock them all, I guarantee it, with a 6-speed RX-8 (is that what you have?) I could barely beat a turbocharged WRX with a few upgrades on the street we were like neck and neck until the end when the high rpms of the rotary helped. I beat him even though I didnt know we were racing until like 1 sec after I started after the signal light. I also raced a S2000 and the driver mis-shifted, it was funny, but it caused me to run a red light in a highly public trafficed area and I didnt hurt anyone, but I could of... thats what worries me most.

I am 19 and have pretty much all import enthusiast friends always encourage me to race people and shit, but when you really think about it and hear horror stories of young adults like you and I dying and burning alive due to street racing, it takes to heart. I have personally seen 1 of my friends crash going 90mph on the freeway racing another car and off the side of the road and spinning and shit and it was a horrific site. My other friend recently was doing something stupid like showing off and ended up crashing into a tree and shit trying to enter a shopping complex at an excess of speed. So before you give into peer pressure and the suggestions of racing this guy or maxing out your car's speed, THINK. Sure it would be awesome to max my car out on the way to vegas, but with 3 of my best friends in there, its not a risk I would be willing to take cuz it could kill us all if something went wrong - now how would that reflect on you? I personally think it shows more BALLS, integrity, and self-control to resist these temptations. Just be responsible, just a suggestion, cuz I used to be all into that street race your ass in high school syndrome and telling my friend that I will beat him shooting nitrous in my 2001 Celica GT automatic compared to his 5.0 Mustang GT... I personally know what you are going through, but there is plenty of times where I look back and say, damn I was stupid... keep it real dude and be responsible. Some famous person said "With great power comes great responsibility."

Efini 8 - You seen spiderman too much hahaha

but im not looked to rid the car man, just looken to put a lil more speed on it.

Upgrade/Mod posts now only PLZ!

New to the site and been reading about how the turbo is not out yet. But my friend told me asked one of the shops he knows for upgrades for my RX and they said it was out.

spiderman?

16 year olds should be driving Ford escorts, Hyundai, dad's SUV, not a brand new RX-8. I can't believe money from cuttin grass bought you this, in which case you already have shown me you don't appreciate what you have and your lack of maturity sticks out like nun in a satanic cult.

Trade in your 8 for '97 celica and learn to drive first!

ZEX....hahahha gay-ass-purple-barney-fraud box? Cool.

I'll stick with Nitrous Oxide Systems. They've been in the business long enough to know they are da $hit, so they don't have to give you lean settings to yield you the extra little horsepoewr so they can say they are better. Not saying Comp Cams is the worst, but they do run a slightly leaner jetting. Another famous company, that sponsored 2F2F on the other hand...those bastards aren't worried about blowing your crap, so they can claim to have the strongest kit out, when in reality, they just throw bigger jets in their packages.

hey wakeech...do you think a simple 50hp shot will be more sensible for daily driving? and in the long run will it really mess up the seals?

It will only ness up the seals if it isn't tuned properly. If you just throw a 50 shot on the engine as it is, you will probably have some big issues. Some very big shots have been used on rotaries before and there is no reason that they shouldn't be made to work on the Renesis but tuning has to be good.

The statement that a dry shot should NEVER be used is ridiculous. It totally depends on the application and the amount of the shot. I ran a 100 shot dry NOS system on an LS1 in a '01 camaro. I probably went through 50 problem-free 15lb bottles in the time I had the car. The key is getting it set up properly. On that car unlike some others, you plumb the shot before the MAF far enough upstream so that the N2o would atomize by the time it hit the maf. NOS had the jet size calibrated so that the ECU would respond with the proper amount of fuel when it got a signal from the it(maf). The kit also came with a fuel pressure safety switch and an full-throttle switch. It worked nicely and cost like $500. In my application I put more trust in the factory ecu and the fpss that came with the kit, than worrying about a fuel solenoid failing or getting fuel puddling in the composite intake. As far as the RX-8 is concerned, I really don't know if dry would be smart because there is no fpr, but we'll see if a kit comes out.

actually i guess all u people on here dont know as much about a rotary as u thought......dude u can add as much nitrous as ur car can handle...not the engine, u cant possibly blow up a rotarty engine unless u dont put oil in it.....therefore, put whatever amout u want into it.....and let it scream

Was that a joke black8?

i have an feeling that blackrx8 is killing a little free time on the board because he blew up his 8. :)

My 12 year old son and I both love the fsat and furious movies!! So when I needed more bass in the sound we added this toy..Sounds great and fools lots of folks.. I know..not for RX-8 purists..but ya gotta see their faces...hee hee

Originally posted by oosik
16 year olds should be driving Ford escorts, Hyundai, dad's SUV, not a brand new RX-8. I can't believe money from cuttin grass bought you this, in which case you already have shown me you don't appreciate what you have and your lack of maturity sticks out like nun in a satanic cult.

Trade in your 8 for '97 celica and learn to drive first!

oosik cut the kid some slack cmon bro...the kid is LUCKY to have an 8 as a first car..hell my first car was a used rx-7 with 25000 miles, and the shit was like a dream for me...i know 16 year old kids whom their parents are buying them m3's. that is an outrage, a 50g car for them to wreck? at least the 8 isnt too pricey as compared to cars like that. but if their parents are buying them eights then great! that means these kids can learn more about their cars and what they can do with them (i dont mean going 110 in a senior citizen community) at an earlier age. Im probably just babbling but this is just my opinion i think its perectly fine for a 16y.o. to have a MAZDA RX-8 as their first car.

People can drive what they want. Don't bash him for working his butt off for his car- that's just dumb. I wish *I* had been able to afford something like the 8 when I was his age. As it was, I had to wait 10 years before I saved/made enough money to buy one. Next person that makes a personal attack in this thread gets a warning. If you can't state your opinion politely, don't state it at all.

Elara. This forum is for people who want to SAFELY increase the performance of their 8. Im not attacking tit. personally, but he should have read the 1,000 other threads about whether or not to use NO2, plus the other million that mention NO2 as not viable option because of the apex seals. Warn me if you wish, but I would just like to see intelligent people posting, instead of those looking for a quick fix for saturday night.

O.K. for all u that wana know how this is possible, a 16/17 yearold kid payen for a 32thou car.... i work at PacSun in a mall.... (obviously not enough). then my 2nd job, well it helps when ur a model... stop this shit about a kid not bein able to work off payments for a damn car!

Can we just focus on the hp idea here!?

Borla exhaust just got ordered for the 8 at my local shop... its just sitten there, duna if i wana put it on cause 1st oil change is comin up soon so not puttin on yet for sure....

just got red neon lights under the dash... i'll post pics soon

post pics of yourself with your car, beautiful

aight, well im home 2night till about 6 or 7 so, i'll post a thread for the pics of these bomb @$$ neons! I recoment the red Street Glow, they match up with the interior nicely. but i guess it also depends on if you have anthing other than the red/black black/black interior... but it looks good.

Should turbo come before exhaust? or vice versa? i have talked to a few friends about it... and got diff answers, so i figured i'd ask u guys

exhaust, first mod i always recommend, the stock system isn't too bad. but still, a Racing Beat, or a Borla would add that nice touch for the car that you want in a first mod.

oosik cut the kid some slack cmon bro...the kid is LUCKY to have an 8 as a first car

But his intent for wanting the turbo, to me, does not warrant having such a car and go with something more suitable for the age bracket and learning to drive.

Now had his question been more along the lines of the theory of turbo charging and FI, no such remark would have been made from me.

Maturity can speak pages when the book is open. He just got the car, has no real idea what it's like to drive for the amount of years as most ppl and experience traffic related situtations that go along with it, yet his only real intent at the present is to race other kids in high school. How about a Yugo?

Just lost a coworker while he was riding his motorcycle, slammed into the side of a truck as it turned across his part of the highway, died on impact. He was serving in the USCG.

So at the moment, I'm a bit sensitive to people dying needlessly in auto accidents, especially 16 year olds who have lots of life left in them.

If you are using Nitrous on your RX-8

What type are you using? Wet or Dry system?

How much are you spraying?

Have you Dyno'd the car with an A/F meter?


If you are not using Nitrous this thread is not for you. Please I don't need advise or opinions about Nitrous.

Thanks

Might as well kill this thread now since there isn't anybody running NOS yet and nobody else is allowed to reply... :o

yea carisma is squeezing off the bottle...ask him...even if you are squeezing you would want to use a wet setup.... do some research on this forum...there are many posts about this already..

man fuck off, a guy i worked w/ over the summer died yesterday night driven home. suposivly fell asleap at weel or was DUI, or a mix. why would u bring that here? Sory bout your friend anyways.
- not looken to die man, wtf!

buster- if u want... sure.

but the neons i just put in look alot like sumthen i saw in a package mazda sent me... mine jus a lil brighter i think. need a cam! i can neva to remember to pick one up...

Flame me if you want, but supposedly you are not supposed to use a dry N2O system on a rotary engine.

Nitrous on a Rotary is like throwing a shotput into a jet engine. It's gonna make a really loud boom. Nitrous isn't worth the strain it applies to your motor; turbos are less sudden, easier to tune, and you can get more reliable horsepower out of them. Nitrous is cheap horsepower, and cheap horsepower doesn't come without problems.

your analogy stinks

Savington your first post sucks.Unjustified remarks we have enough of here, so please put a little more thought to your next post.Ive ran spray on 3 autos never had a problem,hell one still running today with 210,000 miles.

Wow Savington your first post and you didn't even bother to read the thread.


Can't people read? Only a couple of responses that are relevant to the question asked. :mad:

Just because you ask for no responses from a certain group does not mean they wont respond. for some it is almost impossible to not comment when asked not to. his response was polite and had a point. argue his point if you like but don't insult him.

Where's the insult? And why should I not ask for specific responses? If I wanted an opinion on Nitrous I would have made a thread saying "What are the pros or cons of nitrous?" Last I checked...It didn't ask for opinions.

People, Nitrous is a Power Adder. PERIOD.

I know the pros, I know the cons... Ultimately IT'S MY CHOICE. All I want is to follow a path that others with THIS car have taken successfully.

I will NOT Turbo or Supercharge the car because it will take me out of SCCA Stock class. The Car is slower than my previous car and I want something for when I just want to get a kick for the day. It really PISSES me off that I have to defend myself for not wanting to have to sift through the bullshit to find the answers I want.

if you cant wait for a turbo, talk to some one who can fabricate the manifold and piping. people in japan are turbocharging them now-look in some of the options magazines-i have a friend who can read japanese so that helps.

I agree, I've sprayed multiple other cars with no problems both wet and dry, and they weren't $1500 computerized kits either. N20 can be safe and extremely effective. I am curious as well to see what has worked on 8's so far. Personally, I just don't have the balls to be the guniea pig with my brand new car.

close this thread now pleez mod...

can everyone stop calling it NOOOSSSSSS.....thats a fuggin company....its Nitrous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!lay off on the F&F..

Why XDEEDUBBX?

Sonik- thanks man

why everyone really gotta bitch about people calling nitrous "nos"? It's a company yea, but wetha people like it or not, it has become a common term. As long as you know what the person is getting at why complain? Fast and the Furious w/e... N2O, Nitrous, nos, spray, ect.
:cool:

i like to call it The fast and delerious and 2fast 2delerious

I'd install nitrous on my 8...but my GF and step-dad will kick my ass, ever since what has happened to my Civic. The nitrous did what it was suppose to...it made my car damn fast...my brain didn't do what it was suppose to though, and that was to take into consideration that I didn't have a full tank of race fuel for the jetting I was suppose to be using.

Anyways...I'm sure it'll be a matter of time before nitrous somehow magically makes it's way into my 8...bound to happen since I help out at a performance tuning shop with a chassis dyno and nitrous on tap. I'll be sure to respond if and when that happens.

On a side note though...in theory the RX8 would respond rather well to the dry kits. My theory now, but educated to a degree none the less...

The reason why I think the Renesis should respond rather well, so long as the user doesn't over do it on the jetting is that the RX8, unlike the FD utilizes WIDEBAND O2's with a far more reliable air intake monitoring system. So long as both aspects worth properly, the system should adjust to climate changes rather well...or in this case, nitrous being added into the intake charge.

I personally don't think you guys should be acting that way you are. I've seen far more rice on this forum than I have anywhere else so I don't know why some of you are freakin out over this guy wanting to use nitrous.

He even politely explained it stating the reason why he's opting for nitrous.

At least he didn't say NOS, and actually correctly referred to it as nitrous. On a turbo car I could see why people would flame...considering for that measily 50hp - 75hp gain you can just upgrade to a slightly bigger turbo and have permanant hp. However on your N/A cars as long as he uses it in moderation it won't harm anything. And he's on here making sure what to use.

I wish I could help but honestly I know nothing about nitrous, because I never once thought about using it. But as long as you upgrade the fuel or as somebody said use race gas you should be fine.

Originally posted by AlexCisneros
Where's the insult? The replies to his post were as follows- WTF no turbo - Savington your first post sucks. and AlexCisneros - Wow Savington your first post and you didn't even bother to read the thread.

Can't people read? ...
those are the insults i was talking about.

Originally posted by AlexCisneros
And why should I not ask for specific responses? If I wanted an opinion on Nitrous I would have made a thread saying "What are the pros or cons of nitrous?" Last I checked...It didn't ask for opinions.

i didn't say you couldn't. i said that just because you asked for people to not give opinions, doesn't mean they won't and don't be surprised when they do. live with it and ignore them.

Originally posted by AlexCisneros
It really PISSES me off that I have to defend myself for not wanting to have to sift through the bullshit to find the answers I want. [QUOTE] you didn't need to defend yourself you could have simply done what i asked and turned the heat down. instead you chose to rant. just cool off and we'll see if you can get the answers you are looking for.

now everyone if you can't answer his questions leave it alone. if you have some ideas lets hear them, but please make them knowledged based and not just what you've heard.

Even on a turbo car...especially one that already has a larger turbo, nitrous can still be beneficial. If not used to help the turbo spool during launch, it can help daily drivers by cooling the intercooler. Those of you that live in hot spots like Nevada, Arizona, Los Angeles...know what I'm talking about...turbo cars run like crud in those enviornments.

I remember searching on google when the ZEX first came out as to how to install it. I was trying to find instructions for my Civic. The only step-by-step instructions I found with pictures were for an RX-7. Most things applied none-the-less. I checked back a year after I had already installed my ZEX kit and the guy had done a follow up. Said the kit still ran great on his RX-7. His TURBO RX-7...

http://www.rx7turboturbo.com/robrobinette/nitrous_install.htm

One thing I just remember though...the RX-8 to my knowledge is suppose to be a returnless fuel system. Most 2000+ cars are, IE: RSX, Celica, G35, 350Z...

Incases of RETURNLESS FUEL SYSTEMS...One MUST use a wet kit if there isn't a dry kit specifically designed for your car. Universal dry kits work by injecting pressure on the fuel pressure regulator's diaphram, that in turn causes the fuel pressure to rise, thus supplying the extra fuel needed to SAFELY produce the power figures that nitrous is known for. If you don't have a FUEL PRESSURE REGULATOR that works off of vaccuum because you have a returnless fuel system, then that doesn't very well work, now does it?

Originally posted by -=Zeqs=-
Even on a turbo car...especially one that already has a larger turbo, nitrous can still be beneficial. If not used to help the turbo spool during launch, it can help daily drivers by cooling the intercooler. Those of you that live in hot spots like Nevada, Arizona, Los Angeles...know what I'm talking about...turbo cars run like crud in those enviornments.

I remember searching on google when the ZEX first came out as to how to install it. I was trying to find instructions for my Civic. The only step-by-step instructions I found with pictures were for an RX-7. Most things applied none-the-less. I checked back a year after I had already installed my ZEX kit and the guy had done a follow up. Said the kit still ran great on his RX-7. His TURBO RX-7...

Yes it CAN be beneficial, but not necessary. Using nitrous to spool laggy turbos and to cool intercoolers are rare cases... most people don't have t-88's on their honda civics or drive in 120 degree weather. Water injection is more popular rather than n20 btw.

Another reason to use nitrous on a turbo car from what I've seen are people that are just having difficulty going sub-12's or sub 11's after they've already maxed out on their turbos, just needing that extra umph.

But besides that spending $500-700 on a nitrous kit just to gain 50-100hp isn't worth it on a turbo car, especially since the power is only there temporarily. Gaining 50-100hp isn't hard for a turbo car, but for an N/A it's a diff story.

Reason running nitrous is especially risky on a rotory is because of it's ease of detonation i'm sure you all know. Engine knocks once and you'll hear KABOOM. Motors going from nitrous are due to the car running lean when not properly tuned, and running lean = heat &/or knock, which are two of rotory engines worse enemies. So yea you could put nitrous on an FD....but why would you want to.

Hey Alex, you might want to contact Acosta Racing. They where the first to say they had nitrous on the 8 many moons ago. Havent seen him online much but they do have a web page with some contacts.

Looking into a small wet shot this weekend since turbos look to be a long way out.Soon as i come up with something ill post results.Im going to try to avoid the shotput.Oh i didnt insult Savington i insulted his post.Dont believe i got personal did i?

Ok, somehow the thread was now hijacked... Maybe we should delete this one and try again...

I did NOT insult the guy. I also made reference to the post he made. Had I said you are an A$$ Hole... Then I could see an insult.

And since this thread was Hijacked... My previous car was a 2000 Audi S4 and the Wet Nitrous Express Kit (50HP jetting) came out of that car. Again, I like to run in SCCA Stock class so no Upgraded Turbo and that new M3 did a number on me on the turnpike..err I mean track (should've seen his face after nitrous..it was sooo small in the rear view mirror).

The Mitsu GSX I owned previous to the Audi (Drag car) had a 16G upgrade and later a T3/T4 with a 50HP shot to get it spooled faster. 1/4 racing gets old and expensive. Stock class lets you compete cheaply and it's a new track every time.

Nitrous is a Power Adder. PERIOD.
But as was said by someone else... I won't be the guineapig, this is my daily driver.

Alex...the wet kit you pulled out of your Audi should be pretty much all you need to get started. Most of the newer cars like the 2000+ Celica's, 2001+ Civic's, RSX's, G35's & 350Z's all have to go with the wet kit because of the returnless fuel system I mentioned earlier.

www.bottleblownracing.com

In SoCal, they do installs. When it comes to 350Z's, G35's and soon to be RX-8's, it costs about 1200 dollars for the kit, installed, and tuned. Basically you'll leave there with a setup tuned to run safely.

I got 1160 from my local tuner here so that price sounds about right.Going up today to check availiblilty and times.

Originally posted by WTF no turbo
I got 1160 from my local tuner here so that price sounds about right.Going up today to check availiblilty and times.

Oh...1200 is what he charges other people...I think he'd do it for me for around 300, seeing as I already have a wet kit I could throw in there, and he gives me dyno time in exchange for doing bitch work around his shop.

haha, well w/e...

either way its nuthen to be so bitchy bout

runnin NX's Kit...

runnin dry untill i tap the FUEL line. spraying a 75 SHOT!

Originally posted by Savington
Nitrous on a Rotary is like throwing a shotput into a jet engine. It's gonna make a really loud boom. Nitrous isn't worth the strain it applies to your motor; turbos are less sudden, easier to tune, and you can get more reliable horsepower out of them. Nitrous is cheap horsepower, and cheap horsepower doesn't come without problems.
I have used nitrous on all 3 of my rx7's without any problem on any of them i tend not go above a 75hp shot (wet), most of the problems come from inexperinced tuners who don't know what they doing.

no probs hurrr.;)

Originally posted by wakeech
nitrous + air without fuel won't do anything... that's why it's "fuel cut" and not "fuel dangerously lean out"...

...Umm...right...

Seen too many kids do harm to their engines because they didn't know how to lift their foot off of the accelerator before the fuel cut off activated. Nitrous + Air + not enough fuel from the initial stages of the fuel cutting off = lots of cry babies.

which is better a wet or dry shot of N2O?

Trick question; the correct answer is "neither"! ;)

Well, I suppose if you're a drag racer or live your life a 1/4 mile at a time, then nitrous is OK. For sports cars that have to go around corners, it's definitely NOT the way to go to get additional power.

Regards,
Gordon

yeah but ont the strip, and i'm looking for more power, wich is better?

you're gonna drag your 8?!

"dum dum dum...another one bites the dust"

Just in case you haven't heard....Ford just started selling a drag car called the MUSTANG...

and theres another POS called a 350z that is made for that so check it out :)

so the 8 still has power to punch and when more aftermarket parts come out it will.

i'm not some man going through a mid-life crisis buying a sports car im an import tuner and the 8 is a 7 with four seats and more

The 8 is most certain NOT an RX-7....

i know that, i wasn't literal

i'm saying i like the 7, ilike rotary engines, i like the style of both and plus it has foru seats which is what made me choose a 8 over a 7

i know it isn't the fastest car out there but not many stock cars are, not that there aren't any fast stock cars, with the right touch it could work

Agreed. Keep reading 2_furious, there's lots of good info to be found in this forum.

What do you guys think about the venom system on the 8

Guys I'm looking for anyone with experience with nitrous on a rotary engine not just the new Renesis. How does it preform and is it a good idea to use it? And guys I'm looking for opinions from people have used it before on a rotary engine, please no theories or ideas and please no "I wouldn't do it" or "it's bad for it" if you've never tried it. Those answers are great if you've tried it, but I keep getting answers and opinions from people who don't know what they are talking about. Thanks

-oh yeah what do you guys think about the venom computerised system?

many threads on this already use the Search button on top!!

I know but no one has actually answered this question out-flat
and no one answered it on the General Nitrous thread, so I got permission to start a new thread on Nitrous.

I guess the questions are: Has nitrous been used on previous rotaries? If so, what type of system (wet or dry) is best? What size "shot" was used? How does a mild shot affect the longevity of the rotary engine?Is this pretty much what you want to know, Horse?

-yes
-wet
-35-50shot
-should be fine unless u squeeze ALL THE TIME... occasionally shouldnt have an effect that decreases engine longevity

yes, thank you.

I keep seeing recommendation from people, but I have not seen an article from someone who has indeed install the NOS kit.

I have heard from two shops in Miami that NOS on the new new Renesis is ticking because of the way the intake is designed. They mentioned that one of the rotors get more NOS than the other.

Can someone confirm this?

Regards

Seems very unlikely. It's about like saying that one piston gets more then another. I would assume that like most vehicles, the intake runners and tubing keep an even air flow. I'm interested in knowing how it affects performance when the other two ports open up though.

which is better with our engines a wet shot or a dry shot?

i just started a new thread bout this and i didn't find out to much i would just say dedicate some time to searchin you may find what you need but who knows we may get lucky and someone answer us

actually read up the page abit i'm an idiot

rx8 has a great nitrous cut already.. you simply tap the rev buzzer and close the nitrous solenoid with it when it picks up voltage change.

Hey charles Whats you mods setup? and how much HP are you making?

Read the several threads I have hosted for the past two years on the issue of nitrous and the RX-8. You'll find that it works great, is a fraction of the cost of a turbo kit, and that the Renesis can handle much more abuse than previous versions of the rotary. BTW, there is no major distribution problem, if any, between the front and rear rotor housings if the nozzle is properly installed. I have tutored several people from this club on installing their own kits and you can ask them if I know about that which I write. I am also designing a direct-port conversion kit as we speak that will allow higher levels of nitrous use and more exact distribution of nitrous so as to allay any concerns some might have. Additionally, my own mildly modded 8 with nitrous routinely beats stock STis, Evo8s, Cobra Mustangs, GTOs, and runs easy low 13's on stock tires with a 55 h.p. wet shot. This coming spring will see a new PCM and a 125-150 shot with my direct-port kit.

CRH


i love you! now i'm sold on it i may have some ???? for you when i start i'm gettin gan incredible deal on a kit from a friend, i'm getting NOS tank, brackets, nozzles(dry setup but will change) guage, purge kit, nitrous guage blow down tube, remote opener, tank warmer and blanket for 500 bux all slightly used and all NOS brand i think its a good deal u?

Aeromotive Fuel Flow modifier for returnless fuel systems..Marketed by Jegs for 99-03 mustang use...I went to Aeromotive website and they claim it will work with all returnless systems..Charles will this benefit all of us using or considering the use of nitrous...You had mentioned somewhere else that fuel lean was a problem with the higher 65 plus jets..Or was it timing???

http://www.aeromotiveinc.com/pdetail.php?prod=32 Check out for more info...

I recently installed a Nitrous Express wetkit and have some fine tuning to do. I have a couple of questions for you all regarding nitrous setup:

1) What pressure do you have your bottle at? What is the optimum pressure?
2) Did you replace your spark plugs? If so, what kind/model did you use?
3) What intake are you using?
4) Does anyone have pictures of their intake with the shark nozzle?
5) If anyone is using a nitrous express kit, what is the number of your jets you are using for a 50 shot? (ex. 31/20?)

Thanks guys for all your help!

Charles, I would like to personally thank you for all your help! I have finally got my kit installed and am running a 50 shot without any issues. Its simply amazing how well it runs. Thanks again Charles!

Charles,

Were you able to develop a single button system that will switch the Fuel/Ignition so to accomodate a higher shot size (100 to 150Hp?) It's been a while since I read the nitrous threads.

Charles,

Have you seen the Maximizer 2 from NX. It looks pretty cool.

Dual Stage independent output channels (independent profiles for each channel)
·Time-based ramped delivery of nitrous and fuel (unique programmable delay and ramp times for up to 8 gears)
·RPM-based delivery of nitrous and fuel (unique programmable curve for up to 8 gears)
·Throttle-based modifier of nitrous and fuel (reduce nitrous delivery by up to 35% based on throttle position)
·LEAN threshold automatic “cut-off ” when using FJO Wideband system
·Programmable RPM trigger point and cutoff
·Programmable MAP cutoff (when using nitrous as an "anti-lag" system)
·Nitrous pressure sensor input
·Built-in MAP sensor reads from vacuum to 48 psi of boost
·Gear detection for manual and automatic transmissions
·Inputs for arming switch, bottle heater enable switch, 2 trigger switches, throttle position, tach signal, nitrous pressure, and Air/Fuel Ratio (narrow or wideband)
·2 configurable outputs for either: integrated bottle heater control, integrated bottle opener control, automatic N2O purge function, or status LED
·2 ignition retard outputs
·Digital communication port for PC or digital gauges
·Easy to use graphic set-up menus and datalogging using Windows™-based PC
·High current 2-channel solenoid driver

NX Maximizer 2 (http://www.nitrousexpress.com/Pages/Maximizer2.htm)

Wondering if it will work with the 8. Guess it's time for an email enquiry.

I have Nitrous on my 8 and it is the best thing that I put on my car.. I am currently running a 55 shot because of all the other mod I have on my car is possible to run a 65 or 75 shot on a stock Rx-8 because of the headroom of the car!

Hello Ray! I just got my emanage support tool and my emanage is installled now! I will start going up from the 55 shot I am currently running as soon as I get my AFR gauge with a additional WBO2 senor. I'll let you know the result of my testing!!!!

:D: :) :biggthump I will find out what they are and let you know!!!! Hey Ray I'll race you to the low 12's ET:D: :) :biggthump

No but seriously, thank you for all your help with my nitrous questions and advice!!!!!! Your knowledge about nitrous on the 8 is what made my know it was okay to go for it!!!! :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

The Zex nitrous management unit failed. The tech at Zex said that I my have just got a bad solenoid in the box but, my replacement is in the mail now and I should recieve it by the end of the week. :rock:

As a note to all the people that down Zex kits; I have to say that I have never had a company be so helpful and nice. They replaced my unit at no cost to me and even when ahead and shipped it when I send them the tracking # of my package to them!!! They even when as far as to say that they were sorry that the problem occured and also told me that if I have any other problems with any of their products to let them know and they would any thing they could to correct it! To me this is going above and beyond!

Ray, did you get the Pics I sent you!

Hello CRH,

I was reading up on your post about nitrous and you really seem to be the expert on this. I am a noob on nitrous and would like your advice on how I should decide on my nitrous. Currently I can see most people choosing the Zex system over NX. The problem is I haven't seen any Zex here in the Philippines. I did see a shop with NX but the price they are asking for is astronomical compared to the price I see on the net (3.5 times!):Eyecrazy: . Further to that they have never installed one on a RX8 (there are only 6 units in the Philippines). I am thinking of purchasing one over the net and installing it with a mechanic friend (I had my Rx-8 for only 6 months - about 6,000 miles now). Can you give me some advise on which system I should purchase? All I am looking at is a modest setup that will give me some extra boost. Any reply would be greatly appreciated and if ever you drop by Philippines, give me a holler.

Regards.

Also if I purchase a Zex system, can I refill with NX N2O?

Given that we only recently have begun to tackle the factory PCM issues with piggybacks or even the full-blown stand-alones I tend to doubt that the NX system will work reliably with the RX8. I may be wrong, though. If one were asking my advice I would say that the NX system is pretty impressive in its ability to control several parameters but those same parameters are unnecessary on a street-driven car. A well-executed nitrous system needs very little extraneous tweaking to make it work properly. All of the features on this NX system are really intended for the serious racer.

CRH

I would say no to nitro ...

... but water cooling on the other hand, isnt' that safer?

... rather water injection

Do you believe that boosting your rotary through supercharging/turbo is "putting it on crack"? N2O does the same thing. It forces more air and fuel into the chamber(housings in this case), and when done at the correct air/fuel ratio with good timing (-2degrees every 50hp) you can have excellent results.Plus it isnt being used all the time either. People just throw N2O on becuase its cheap add no extra fuel and detonate like crazy and blow out apex seals. Same thing happens if you put a ghetto turbo kit for $637 and you kill your motor on 5 psi of boost. Its all about tuning. I run a 75-150 shot on a stock apex seal ported 12a. I have a 97gph pump for the carb, 114 gph gfor the N20, with MSD boxes and ign timing controll it is actuall quite nice.
Another thing is its Value Priced! I got a NX gemeni Twin that is 75-300Shot with a 15lb bottle, race solenoids, lines, plate, ect, New for $570. Thats less than $2 per hp not including extras, but the 300hp will kill my 12a, If you have a professional set it up for you, you will have great results.

Kyle Lancaster--Double Agent Salesman

I know you said that if everthing is done right there won't be any problems, try telling that to the many rx8 owners i know that have spent thousands of dollars modding there cars professionally and all of them have had problems. You are so happy right now because everthing is working out for you, just give it time you will see. All i have to say is that if the rx8 rotary was meant to run with a turbo mazda would have included this as an option for this vehicle.Do not try and kid yourself any application in this matter is just asking for trouble.:)

only thing i can say is my nitrous is working just fine

the only trouble im have is
after i use is about 4 times and then i go to purge out my lines the next day i dont get that lovely white mist anymore does this mean i need a refill i stll have 500 psi in the bottle as per gauge(BOTTLE IS TURNED OFF ONCE IM DONE USEING)

or am i getting short changed apon filling if so

IM PUTTING THAT SHOP ON BLAST LOL

the only trouble im have is
after i use is about 4 times and then i go to purge out my lines the next day i dont get that lovely white mist anymore does this mean i need a refill i stll have 500 psi in the bottle as per gauge(BOTTLE IS TURNED OFF ONCE IM DONE USEING)

or am i getting short changed apon filling if so

IM PUTTING THAT SHOP ON BLAST LOL

4 times and you are at 500? Yes you are empty, by the way.

You are waisting too much nitrous by purging. Unless you are a t a race track, purging does practically nothing for you. it takes a few milliseconds to purge the lines at the pressures they are subjected to, so regardless whether you purge them or not, your car will go fast when you spray. By purging, you dump our a good full run worth of nitrous which is not cheap.

When I had my kit, it lasted me for days between refills, and I was spraying left and right.

roto does it again thanks

I know you said that if everthing is done right there won't be any problems, try telling that to the many rx8 owners i know that have spent thousands of dollars modding there cars professionally and all of them have had problems. You are so happy right now because everthing is working out for you, just give it time you will see. All i have to say is that if the rx8 rotary was meant to run with a turbo mazda would have included this as an option for this vehicle.Do not try and kid yourself any application in this matter is just asking for trouble.:)


:icon_bs: Get a backbone Mary. Are you speaking from experience? Once YOU run FI on YOUR car and it goes to shit, THEN you can come here and advise others. Provide facts, not personal opinion or hearsay for when you claim you know what you are talking about. Otherwise, read my quote below

:icon_bs: Get a backbone Mary. Are you speaking from experience? Once YOU run FI on YOUR car and it goes to shit, THEN you can come here and advise others. Provide facts, not personal opinion or hearsay for when you claim you know what you are talking about. Otherwise, read my quote below

The smart one watches other peoples mistakes on the sideline. Let me tell you my friend nothing that i have said is hearsay i have personally seen this shit happen. I guess it's only facts if it happens to me right? I am just trying to help others before they incur the same headaches!:)

Here's something for you to consider, Jay; when I first researched the possibility of using nitrous on my RX-8 almost 4 years ago I was told by supposed "experts" and other "professionals" that I would blow my seals, or my whole engine, that it would never work, and all that stuff. People to this day still send me the occasional video of some asshole ruining their Ford, Honda, or whatever other engine by using nitrous. In every video I have seen, from day one, I can pinpoint the exact moment where the people in the video, had they known what they were doing, would have recognized the sound a lean-running engine makes well before it "blows up" and could have saved their engines. That is called "tuning". Another anecdote for you; except for F/I, I have virtually every other mod available for the RX-8 and the only troubles I have had with any of them were a result of problems with the car that came from the factory.

The key here is that those friends of yours who serve as your cautionary tales are the problem, not the concept of modifying a car beyond the scope of factory-equipped. If their stories were to serve as the paradigm there would be no such thing as a performance aftermarket or every nitrous kit/turbo kit would come with a new set of piston/rotors and rings/seals.

Finally, there are far too many of us with properly working nitrous kits, turbos, superchargers, and aggressive N/A tunes to lend you and your friends any credibility on the matter. Perhaps all of you should let someone else work on your cars for you.

Ok! i admit that i am wrong, everthing that u said is straight to the point and full of meaning. After seing what happened to my friends it kind of scared me away from doing any major hp mods. I would love to do some mods correctly. Which products would you recommend and do you know of anyone reliable in the toronto/canada area that is good at these installs?:)