what is the best turbo kit for the rx8?
are there any big turbo upgrades?
and if so, what are they....
someone just please help
best ive found was the esmirel. and 7k is alot for not even 400hp
so, if there are any other options. just let me know

thx

"Best" is the worst word in the human language.

Why do you need other peoples opinions?

Do the homework, search the turbo threads, then form an opinion of your own......


S

what is the best turbo kit for the rx8?
are there any big turbo upgrades?
and if so, what are they....
someone just please help
best ive found was the esmirel. and 7k is alot for not even 400hp
so, if there are any other options. just let me know

thx

get the mazsport type 1, greddy with the MM upgrade and BHR/MM kit. Once you do that you can upgrade them into 1 really great kit. Someone on the forum just finished this combo kit and is putting down 500+ horsepower.

noob, try ebay

You want the best? I say go with MazdaManica's....
MEGA-HYPER ELECTRO-TURBO SYSTEM (http://www.mazdamaniac.com/ebayfake.htm)

It's the best money can buy for a relatively good price.

Oh, and in before lock. :p:

Seriously, though, go to the Dyno Comparison thread stickied at the top of this forum and pick your favorite curvy line. Then go read from beginning to end whatever 100 page post goes into the details of the kit. If by page 100 you still want it and it's still possible to get, go nuts.

What an intriguing and original question. Try reading some of the threads stickied in the "Major Horsepower Upgrades" section of the forum. I suggest you do more research than looking at a price tag and a peak HP number from the manufacturer of said turbo kit before making a decision. If you don't know a lot about turbos and rotary engines, or have a lot of money to throw away, I'd suggest not going down the aftermarket FI road at all.

But you aren't going to listen to that advice anyway, so buy whichever turbo kit makes your pants tighter and a few inches shorter.

can a renesis even go up to 400hp?

^^Currently not on pump gas , but on race gas im sure it can reach over 400+whp

With meth injection and a really aggressive turbo setup I think it would be possible on pump gas. I don't know of anybody that's pushed it that far, and I wouldn't really recommend it unless you have a spare motor handy though :)

^^Currently not on pump gas , but on race gas im sure it can reach over 400+whp

from what ive read and seen it'll barely reach it on race gas...


With meth injection and a really aggressive turbo setup I think it would be possible on pump gas. I don't know of anybody that's pushed it that far, and I wouldn't really recommend it unless you have a spare motor handy though :)

thats reckless but true

get the mazsport type 1, greddy with the MM upgrade and BHR/MM kit. Once you do that you can upgrade them into 1 really great kit. Someone on the forum just finished this combo kit and is putting down 500+ horsepower.

Um 500+? With a 1.3? Hmm I wonder if he made a thread on here.

from what ive read and seen it'll barely reach it on race gas...

Where have you read that?

And in your first post, you originally said "400hp", when means crank horsepower. In that case, many have surpassed 400 crank horsepower.

And of course the Renesis can make 400-rwhp with race gas. I personally know of one that has done over 380-rwhp with only a splash of race gas and more to go, just didn't want to pop the motor.

Where have you read that?

And in your first post, you originally said "400hp", when means crank horsepower. In that case, many have surpassed 400 crank horsepower.

And of course the Renesis can make 400-rwhp with race gas. I personally know of one that has done over 380-rwhp with only a splash of race gas and more to go, just didn't want to pop the motor.

a couple mazda websites and 4 dumbasses trying to race a couple weaks ago

My statement is long overdue. I have the complete PRO TECH turbo set-up. This set-up is awesome. I was a little antsy and brought the car home before they were completely finished. They did not get a chance to put it on the dyno (my fault). They were waiting on a part and I did not want to wait. I have everything the C/D project car had plus an extra or two. I will be going back to PRO TECH for the dyno test. I will post the chart as soon as I have the documentation. PRO TECH said they will film and post the film. The raceway close by is hosting a special STREET CAR/GRUDGE match in a week. I will be there. I know what there project car posted. NOW, lets see if they were right.

what is the best turbo kit for the rx8?
are there any big turbo upgrades?
and if so, what are they....
someone just please help
best ive found was the esmirel. and 7k is alot for not even 400hp
so, if there are any other options. just let me know

thx
My statement is long overdue. I have the complete PRO TECH turbo set-up. This set-up is awesome. I was a little antsy and brought the car home before they were completely finished. They did not get a chance to put it on the dyno (my fault). They were waiting on a part and I did not want to wait. I have everything the C/D project car had plus an extra or two. I will be going back to PRO TECH for the dyno test. I will post the chart as soon as I have the documentation. PRO TECH said they will film and post the film. The raceway close by is hosting a special STREET CAR/GRUDGE match in a week. I will be there. I know what there project car posted. NOW, lets see if they were right.

a couple mazda websites and 4 dumbasses trying to race a couple weaks ago

So you believe a couple of dumbasses? What websites?

My statement is long overdue. I have the complete PRO TECH turbo set-up. This set-up is awesome. I was a little antsy and brought the car home before they were completely finished. They did not get a chance to put it on the dyno (my fault). They were waiting on a part and I did not want to wait. I have everything the C/D project car had plus an extra or two. I will be going back to PRO TECH for the dyno test. I will post the chart as soon as I have the documentation. PRO TECH said they will film and post the film. The raceway close by is hosting a special STREET CAR/GRUDGE match in a week. I will be there. I know what there project car posted. NOW, lets see if they were right.

Hmmm a PTP turbo owner.....

Hmmm a PTP turbo owner.....

and 2/3 of his posts are the same.

cant wait..

beers :beer:

^^^ hehehe.... i know what you're thinking, cause i was thinking the same thing

sorry, did not realize i had posted the same thing twice...........must have been a computer problem caused by too many margaritas.......i will make sure and limit the computer to just one. Here are a few pictures:

^^^ hehehe.... i know what you're thinking, cause i was thinking the same thing

So you believe a couple of dumbasses? What websites?

not really i heard a a few mis shifts in each run... also to of the drivers were younger then me. but the websites are mazdaforums.com and jmdu.com

sorry, did not realize i had posted the same thing twice...........must have been a computer problem caused by too many margaritas.......i will make sure and limit the computer to just one. Here are a few pictures:

Nice blow-through setup you got there.

not really i heard a a few mis shifts in each run... also to of the drivers were younger then me. but the websites are mazdaforums.com and jmdu.com

Well those are forums, not exactly scientific information. Take everything you read and hear with a grain of salt until you know the individual/place is a reliable source.

Well those are forums, not exactly scientific information. Take everything you read and hear with a grain of salt until you know the individual/place is a reliable source.

well this has bein the most reliable source iv'e found. the jack asses in mazdaforums couldn't even tell how a rotary works (WTF ITS SO FUCKING SIMPLE)...:squint: making 400hp on spark plugs, wires, and a cai..... :icon_no2: idiot ricers

but wait one of the guys that was racing went from 3rd to 2nd den tryd to get it on 4th gear..... :lol:

Well those are forums, not exactly scientific information. Take everything you read and hear with a grain of salt until you know the individual/place is a reliable source.

well this has bein the most reliable source iv'e found. the jack asses in mazdaforums couldn't even tell how a rotary works (WTF ITS SO FUCKING SIMPLE)...:squint: making 400hp on spark plugs, wires, and a cai..... :icon_no2: idiot ricers

but wait one of the guys that was racing went from 3rd to 2nd den tryd to get it on 4th gear..... :lol:

I don't get it... they don't know how a rotary works, but they are the most reliable source you have found?

That's what I thought, but I gave up trying to reason

No, I was saying Rx8club has been the most reliable source iv'e found... Mazdaforums just made me want to bitch slap some people.:icon_no2:

chicken, reasoning is beyond our control

I think that's the first you've ever said that made sense, Taj. Holy shit

roflmao cakes

sorry, did not realize i had posted the same thing twice...........must have been a computer problem caused by too many margaritas.......i will make sure and limit the computer to just one. Here are a few pictures:

Looks like the guys at PTP did a pretty good job on your install. Keep us informed on what happens with your dyno. Did Jon do any additional tuning on your car or are you still running the same tune that was on the PTP Car when they had the kit?

Don't worry about the double post. I have done it a couple of times. If you want you can just delete the post.

PTP turbo is good :D

i wanna see dyno

get the mazsport type 1, greddy with the MM upgrade and BHR/MM kit. Once you do that you can upgrade them into 1 really great kit. Someone on the forum just finished this combo kit and is putting down 500+ horsepower.

500++ Horsepower You,re dreaming:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol2: with this kit!!!!!!! greedy, hks, are not really high performance stuff that's stuff are for littler hondas. if you're go to make real horsepower forget that's parts and this kit...
here's we running rotaries 13b in low 7's and high 6's. we,re know taking about...

^ no, you puerto ricans don't know jack about rotaries, 13b's have very crappy cam timings and can't put down that much power yo!

also, you'll need new piston rings and stuff

XD

^ no, you puerto ricans don't know jack about rotaries, 13b's have very crappy cam timings and can't put down that much power yo!

also, you'll need new piston rings and stuff

XD

Yeah, I've been trying to buy forged pistons for my Rx8 before I put on my turbo kit, but nobody knows where I can buy forged pistons for a Renesis... really annoying...................

.......:banghead:

500++ Horsepower You,re dreaming:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol2: with this kit!!!!!!! greedy, hks, are not really high performance stuff that's stuff are for littler hondas. if you're go to make real horsepower forget that's parts and this kit...
here's we running rotaries 13b in low 7's and high 6's. we,re know taking about...

de Naranjito Puerto Rico te presento robert g.

yyyyyyyyyy

DON CHEZINA :lol: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNOuYczyF6o

and true we are running 13b's in low 7's pero tambien Rgonza en 13b que estamos corriendo en el rx8 es de alta compression mano yo dudo que puedan pasar 450hp sin usar rotores de baja compression tu no cres?

de Naranjito Puerto Rico te presento robert g.

yyyyyyyyyy

DON CHEZINA :lol: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNOuYczyF6o

and true we are running 13b's in low 7's pero tambien Rgonza en 13b que estamos corriendo en el rx8 es de alta compression mano yo dudo que puedan pasar 450hp sin usar rotores de baja compression tu no cres?

Ok....

He says yeah but they're running lower compression rotors (let's you turn the boost up).

Im getting the turbo kit soon maybe in another 5 months.. I saw your white 8 bro looks soo nice.. i was wanting to get those wheeels from them as well.. but.. i didnt have the money to get themm..

you have that one dent on the right fender right?

He says yeah but they're running lower compression rotors (let's you turn the boost up).

thats kinda what im saying the renesis has higher compression rotors unlike the 13b-rew, 12a and 20b so i said i dought your going to get i renesis into the 7sec power range with out using low compression rotors...

And please correct me if im wrong i have my mind somewhere else rite now. :)

Naldy

thats kinda what im saying the renesis has higher compression rotors unlike the 13b-rew, 12a and 20b so i said i dought your going to get i renesis into the 7sec power range with out using low compression rotors...

And please correct me if im wrong i have my mind somewhere else rite now. :)

Naldy

Yeah I'm not much on my Spanish. That's more correct.

Yeah I'm not much on my Spanish. That's more correct.

its all good im still not use to writing and talking in english yet sorry.

Naldy

^ no, you puerto ricans don't know jack about rotaries, 13b's have very crappy cam timings and can't put down that much power yo!

also, you'll need new piston rings and stuff

XD

wow,

taga two for two. first dan and now rgonza.. you really might check out his thread about 3 rotors..

it will leave you limp! :)

beers :beer:

^ swoope

you really need to go to Taj's sarcastic school of epic ownage

seriously

ask Dan, I pmed him over the last day or two and he helped me out alot

rofl

^ swoope

you really need to go to Taj's sarcastic school of epic ownage

seriously

ask Dan, I pmed him over the last day or two and he helped me out alot

rofl

good job.

you are to young to be sarcastic and dont have the knowlege to pull it off.. and when is doubt. this helps. :) bitch. ;)

glad you stuff is getting sorted...



BOOM!

beers :beer:

your mom's boom

I'm still young enough to use it

you can't

LALALALALALALLA

lol at Taja

your mom's boom

I'm still young enough to use it

you can't

LALALALALALALLA

que cabron!:lol:

I think the guys at PTP did a great job. The settings are the same, but I am thinking about raising the high setting a couple of psi's when I go for the dyno. Not sure. Do I really need to or I am I just being greedy. I like the idea of it being very dependable, under all circumstances, but I do like the idea of more HP. But the more HP the quicker it will break. So I am not sure what I am going to do when they put it on the dyno.

screw the hp dud if u could squeeze out a bit more tq you would be set

screw the hp dud if u could squeeze out a bit more tq you would be set

eh?

Do you mean more area under the torque curve?

HP is a function of torque....

I agree 100%. The tq is still double what it was. Nothing feels better than being pinned to the back of the seat because of all that POWER.............

Saludos Rotore 787, Lo que no saben estos gringos que para correr un motor renesis en su forma de origen es casi impsible debido a que los apex seal del renesis no resiten detonacion, por lo cual ningun de estos turbo kits son fiables todos praticamente rompen sus motores( Lo cualninguno de ellos tienen idea por que rompen los motores rapidamente que se le instala estos turbo kit) La mayoria de estos gringos enpesaron a trabajon con motores rotativos ayer nosotros llevamos decadas corriendo rotativos con mucho exito ademas de ser los mas rapidos del mundo en la aceleracion. Mi recomendacion no instale ningun turbo kit a menos que modifques el motor con un buen set de Apex Seal.:eyetwitch


de Naranjito Puerto Rico te presento robert g.

yyyyyyyyyy

DON CHEZINA :lol: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNOuYczyF6o

and true we are running 13b's in low 7's pero tambien Rgonza en 13b que estamos corriendo en el rx8 es de alta compression mano yo dudo que puedan pasar 450hp sin usar rotores de baja compression tu no cres?

Remenber we are the word faster rotaries in the entire word we have the faster record 6.97 @ 197 mph in just 13b 2 rotors, Are your have one more faster!!!!!!:lol: :lol: :lol: And yes we,re puertoricans

^ no, you puerto ricans don't know jack about rotaries, 13b's have very crappy cam timings and can't put down that much power yo!

also, you'll need new piston rings and stuff

XD

Saludos Rotore 787, Lo que no saben estos gringos que para correr un motor renesis en su forma de origen es casi impsible debido a que los apex seal del renesis no resiten detonacion, por lo cual ningun de estos turbo kits son fiables todos praticamente rompen sus motores( Lo cualninguno de ellos tienen idea por que rompen los motores rapidamente que se le instala estos turbo kit) La mayoria de estos gringos enpesaron a trabajon con motores rotativos ayer nosotros llevamos decadas corriendo rotativos con mucho exito ademas de ser los mas rapidos del mundo en la aceleracion. Mi recomendacion no instale ningun turbo kit a menos que modifques el motor con un buen set de Apex Seal.:eyetwitch

Babelfish Translation: Greetings Rotore 787, Which does not know these gringos who stop to run a motor renesis in their form of origin is almost impsible because apex seal of the renesis does not resiten detonation, thus no of these I disturb kits are trustworthy all praticamente break their motors (cualninguno of them has idea so that they quickly break the motors that settle these to him I disturb kit) the majority of these gringos enpesaron to trabajon with rotary engines we we yesterday took to decades running rotating by far success besides being but the expresses of the world in the acceleration. My recommendation does not install any I disturb kit unless modifques the motor with a good Seth of Apex Seal.

Saludos Rotore 787, Lo que no saben estos gringos que para correr un motor renesis en su forma de origen es casi impsible debido a que los apex seal del renesis no resiten detonacion, por lo cual ningun de estos turbo kits son fiables todos praticamente rompen sus motores( Lo cualninguno de ellos tienen idea por que rompen los motores rapidamente que se le instala estos turbo kit) La mayoria de estos gringos enpesaron a trabajon con motores rotativos ayer nosotros llevamos decadas corriendo rotativos con mucho exito ademas de ser los mas rapidos del mundo en la aceleracion. Mi recomendacion no instale ningun turbo kit a menos que modifques el motor con un buen set de Apex Seal.

Eso es lo que yo dije en el otra thread pana esta motor tiene potencial si lo preparan si no pues no va a llegar a ningun lado.

Alnielsen that was a bad translation dude. What Rgonza was trying to say is the most of you are boosting N/A engines without preparing them for it thats why none of these turbo kits are actually worth it because they will literally blow your engine. In other words your skipping one of the most important steps in engine building 101, When boosting an N/A engine you will have to prepare it to take the engine itself to take the boost your going to throw at it (Same property piston or rotary engine), and since we are all running rotary engines this will mean better apex seals like he had stated, etc. etc. etc. you know.

Rgonza, how much power can the stock seals take?

^^ thats a good question...

but as far as nothing being a good kit due to no internal modifications(seals)..... the REW's and the like can boost PLENTY with carefull tuning on OEM seals, that said, the RENESIS has been shown to be MUCH more resistant to detonation....

thats kinda what im saying the renesis has higher compression rotors unlike the 13b-rew, 12a and 20b so i said i dought your going to get i renesis into the 7sec power range with out using low compression rotors...

And please correct me if im wrong i have my mind somewhere else rite now. :)

Naldy

correct me if I'm wrong, but isnt compression, compression??

is there a difference between higher compression on low boost vs lower compression on high boost? dont they both end up with the same combustion chamber pressures? seems to me that the limitations would ONLY be due to tuning, as far as comparing the two idealogies

Please explain how to get more TQ without additional HP.

^^ you cant... HP is a function of TQ and RPM.... at any given RPM if the TQ is increased, the HP will also increase

is there a difference between higher compression on low boost vs lower compression on high boost? dont they both end up with the same combustion chamber pressures? seems to me that the limitations would ONLY be due to tuning, as far as comparing the two idealogies


^ sounds logical but why do so many renesis blow ?

^ sounds logical but why do so many renesis blow ?

poor tuning, very poor. i have personal accounts from a few people, and there are PLENTY here that back the idea that the RENESIS seals are much stronger and stand more abuse/detonation than the prior seals....

an its not like everyone is running around with 400-500whp rennies, so standard exceeding the seals capabilities isnt likely.

i think, although i cant explain why, that: high comp - low boost, has the exact same potential as low comp - high boost.... it just may be more taxing to tune the first. either way in the end its the same amount of fuel/air getting compressed one way or another to the same pressures....

Hmmm...That just doesn't sound right. High compression + low boost = low compression + high boost. Wouldn't you end up at a much higher temperature with higher compression? If so then durability will be much worse with higher compression.

Hmmm...That just doesn't sound right. High compression + low boost = low compression + high boost. Wouldn't you end up at a much higher temperature with higher compression? If so then durability will be much worse with higher compression.

i may be totally off the rocker here.... bear with me, as i refuse to think about it hard enough to show ACTUAL numbers and math...(i'm too busy)

1) lets say 8.5:1 compression, and 20psi boost.... you're taking a chamber full of A/F at ~20psi, and compressing it at a known ratio..... which ends up creating X pressure at TDC

2) now take 10:1 compression, and 12psi boost... you're taking a chamber full of A/F at ~12psi, and compressing it at a known ratio, which is higher than the previous example... which ends up creating X pressure at TDC

temperature rise is a function of compression... in BOTH cases the A/F is compressed... only difference is one is less compressed via FI and more compressed via the static compression ratio, the other is more compressed viw FI, and less compressed via static compression ratio

I've been doing a lot of reading up on this exact issue and posting a bunch of questions on this forum... but it seems to me that the bulk of the blown motors from folks on the forum are poor tunes compounded by poor software. The high compression rotors do seem to make a difference in terms of how much boost people are putting out, but also the Rx8 has been out for only 4-5 years with very limited aftermarket support due to the car not being all that popular. The the older 13B has been out for ages and the Rx7 has a huge aftermarket line built up over all that time. Better software, and tunes are easier to come by.

I don't think that the stock seals or the compression of the motor eliminates the Renesis as a viable turbo car with appropriate tuning within reasonable limits. I personally will probably not be pushing past 9-11 psi because I want the car to stay reliable as long as possible. There are several Rx8Club members who have reliable daily driven turboed cars who prove this can be done. Mysql has been driving his turboed 8 for almost 30,000 miles so far?

Im getting the turbo kit soon maybe in another 5 months.. I saw your white 8 bro looks soo nice.. i was wanting to get those wheeels from them as well.. but.. i didnt have the money to get themm..

you have that one dent on the right fender right?
Yes, thanks for the compliment. If you noticed that little teeny tiny dink you must have been very up close and personal. That little teeny tiny dink is still there, I'm working on that and a new hood. I hope you get the satisfaction from driving your boosted RX8 as much as I have. You'll have to learn how to redrive it. It is totally different than driving it stock.

is there a difference between higher compression on low boost vs lower compression on high boost? dont they both end up with the same combustion chamber pressures? seems to me that the limitations would ONLY be due to tuning, as far as comparing the two idealogies.

In some ways thats true tuning can fix most problems but not all. higher compression on low boost is always going less reliable then a lower compression engine with higher boost. the lower comp. engine is built to handel more.

Thats what i was taught

In some ways thats true tuning can fix most problems but not all. higher compression on low boost is always going less reliable then a lower compression engine with higher boost. the lower comp. engine is built to handel more.

Thats what i was taught

while that may appear or even BE true... i am fairly confident that its only a matter of how granular and precise you can get the tuning down that makes it so...

ie... in a perfect world(tuning wise) they should both be the same..

A lower compression engine has more room for tuning fluctuations. Thus you can just put more boost and more fuel and end up with more power without the fine tuning of a higher compression engine.
Putting more boost to a higher compression engine is more difficult and usually ends with disaster. You can't just throw boost and fuel at it and expect it to work. Tuning is critical.

ok, that makes sense^^ but that means that the physical potential for either route is the same, just that low compression is the far more feasible due to tuning capability..??

Air is air.
However, the difference between compressing a given amount of air a lot and compressing more air somewhat less is not a simple relationship.
Two motors, both achieving a pre-combustion pressure level of 130 PSI.
Both use the same turbo.
One does it by 10:1 compression and 12 PSI of boost.
The other by 8.5:1 compression and 16 PSI of boost.
Which had more flow?

You see, that is part of the problem.

Even though the higher compression motor will have more combustion chamber volume differential (and therefore, torque), the lower compression motor will have more air flowed into it by the turbo and make more power.

Then, we are back to the old discussion of which is more important - power or torque.

Air is air.
However, the difference between compressing a given amount of air a lot and compressing more air somewhat less is not a simple relationship.
Two motors, both achieving a pre-combustion pressure level of 130 PSI.
Both use the same turbo.
One does it by 10:1 compression and 12 PSI of boost.
The other by 8.5:1 compression and 16 PSI of boost.
Which had more flow?

You see, that is part of the problem.

Even though the higher compression motor will have more combustion chamber volume differential (and therefore, torque), the lower compression motor will have more air flowed into it by the turbo and make more power.

Then, we are back to the old discussion of which is more important - power or torque.

Thats going a peoples preference whether they want more power or torque. But I'm sticking with what i said i'll side with the low comp. engine power it makes wont matter just if i can get a decent torque curve through tuning i'll be straight. just my 2cents

Thats going a peoples preference whether they want more power or torque. But I'm sticking with what i said i'll side with the low comp. engine power it makes wont matter just if i can get a decent torque curve through tuning i'll be straight. just my 2cents

Horsepower IS torque. Preference has nothing to do with it.
Only RPM.
Tuning doesn't make torque - air does.

Nothing you said makes any sense.

Horsepower IS torque. Preference has nothing to do with it.
Only RPM.
Tuning doesn't make torque - air does.

Nothing you said makes any sense.

i dought anything i say would make sense right now i'm a bit fucked over but my bad atleast i know what i was aiming at.

I'm curious MM, are your avatars people you "know" or just random web pics.

MM is actually a shape shifter and what you are looking at are pictures of him photoshopped together with pictures of him.

Back on topic .
Who on here has fitted a turbo from any of the kits available and not had major hassles of some kind ?

I say the best is not a "kit". Buy the stuff you need, and dont pay for the BS that you dont. I have less than half what these kits cost in mine, including stand alone and fuel system. Mine is good for 700hp if the engine can keep up, and people with the kits are getting excited when they see 300hp.

I say the best is not a "kit". Buy the stuff you need, and dont pay for the BS that you dont. I have less than half what these kits cost in mine, including stand alone and fuel system. Mine is good for 700hp if the engine can keep up, and people with the kits are getting excited when they see 300hp.

I'll be excited if you can do even 400 whp on yours, nevermind 700.

Mine is good for 700hp if the engine can keep up, and people with the kits are getting excited when they see 300hp.

Wow, that's an awesome system.

How much was that twin, high-flow fuel pump, the return fuel rails and all the 3/8" steel braid fuel line?
Aren't you worried about the idle with those 1000cc primaries?
Who made your 4.5" MAF tube?
The GT4088r is pretty awesome. Who made your manifold and downpipe?
Must have been a huge pain to route the 2" primaries all the way to the top of the engine bay and still have room for that 4" downpipe.
What did you end up doing for the front bumper? I had done some test fab, but I never figured out how to get that 32"x16"x4" intercooler out there and get the 3.5" mandrel bends to it from the discharge and to the TB. I guess your system has a V-mount.
I can't wait to hear about the tuning. It'll be awesome.
Of course, the engine you are having built for this is probably pretty killer, so it'll be cool to see the pics of the porting, custom intake manifold, etc.

rofl, 700 hp??

tuning is gonna be a bitch

I say the best is not a "kit". Buy the stuff you need, and dont pay for the BS that you dont. I have less than half what these kits cost in mine, including stand alone and fuel system. Mine is good for 700hp if the engine can keep up, and people with the kits are getting excited when they see 300hp.

Can I get a list of what you put under your hood so I can do this too? And it was cheap too? Maybe we could market this setup and make millions.
I want 700hp ! :Eyecrazy:

Wow, that's an awesome system.

How much was that twin, high-flow fuel pump, the return fuel rails and all the 3/8" steel braid fuel line?
Aren't you worried about the idle with those 1000cc primaries?
Who made your 4.5" MAF tube?
The GT4088r is pretty awesome. Who made your manifold and downpipe?
Must have been a huge pain to route the 2" primaries all the way to the top of the engine bay and still have room for that 4" downpipe.
What did you end up doing for the front bumper? I had done some test fab, but I never figured out how to get that 32"x16"x4" intercooler out there and get the 3.5" mandrel bends to it from the discharge and to the TB. I guess your system has a V-mount.
I can't wait to hear about the tuning. It'll be awesome.
Of course, the engine you are having built for this is probably pretty killer, so it'll be cool to see the pics of the porting, custom intake manifold, etc.

dunno what twin high flow fuel pump you are speaking of...
The pump was $225. didnt price the lines, but expect around $75 in lines. The regulator is $100 The pump is questionable over 500hp, we have got over 500 in short bursts with it though. (different car)
I am not running 1000cc primaries, but the car idles well.
I dont have a 4.5" MAF tube. Its not needed.
I am running a 3" downpipe, and its fairly open on the right side of the engine so room is not a major issue, a 6" downpipe would be more difficult but 4" would be effortless.
Intercooler fits pretty well, didnt have to butcher anything. I have 3 different ones I have tried for best fit, one fits very well, one fits like ass, and the water to air one blocks too much airflow. It doesnt have 3.5" mandrel bends. The bumper braces are very much in the way though, I am very limited on cold airflow.
I never said I was even wiping dirt off the engine....We are talking about turbo kits. Mine will support 700hp. So far we have got 560 to the wheels with minor porting with same exact setup (21psi +/-?), street driven (same engine, in gen2 rx7).

Go back and read the post one more time now....never said the engine put out 700hp. :uhh:

I know what it takes to make 700hp bro....I have 650hp n/a street car, and a 800hp 10.5 car, and I also have a 1300hp twin turbo regal sitting in the shop as well. So before you assume I have no idea what I am talking about, you might just wanna ask first.

I thought Psi didnt really matter but the amount of air in the combustion chamber is what matters. So if you have a low compression engine your turbo can do more "work" and force more air into it allowing more fuel. Isn't this the whole point for going turbo? What you're really doing is giving the motor more air , the engine is only an "air pump" And you're just assisting it with a turbo. With high compression the air fuel charge will get really hot and i think would cause pre ignition. This is just what i think , not even sure if this is correct but thats my understanding of it. I think thats why you need race gas for 400+whp , since higher octane has a higher ignition peak. Imo if you want crazy horsepower and torque then you shouldn't of bought the rx8 , just get a big chevy v8 , with such big displacement you dont even need the turbos lol.

Can I get a list of what you put under your hood so I can do this too? And it was cheap too? Maybe we could market this setup and make millions.
I want 700hp ! :Eyecrazy:

1 7/8" primary tubes (off the top of my head)
3" down pipe
gt4088 w/H cover or S cover preferably
spearco intercooler
tial 44mm wastegate
greddy BOV(had it sitting here, so it was basically a freebie)
Haltech E6X

No need to go on about the engine, since we arent talking about engines.

As long as you can flow the air, you can support major HP. Not sure how much air the renesis can handle, so dont confuse me saying my turbo "kit" will support 700hp with " this exact set up will make 700hp on a renesis engine".

Dunno about marketing it to make millions, there is not much profit in it honestly. Most people want plug and play, with no tuning, and run on 87 octane whenever they feel the need. And, they pay alot more for it.

I'll be excited if you can do even 400 whp on yours, nevermind 700.
Glad you have an intrest. Go ahead and be excited now. Hell, you can be excited and then some actually.... on pump gas.

You made 560 HP on a Renesis in an RX-8? Wow.

You made 560 HP on a Renesis in an RX-8? Wow.

Show me where I said that. Slow down and read...:rofl:


I will narrow it down...

street driven (same engine, in gen2 rx7)

Since we are talking turbo kits, and not engines, the engine is not really relivant.

Once again.....never said it will make 700hp on a renesis. I said it will support 700hp.

You know, this is an RX-8 forum, right?

Your contributions are probably better applied to the RX-7Club WEB site.

There are plenty of people with "big" turbo units that can "support" very high numbers.
But that is completely irrelevant since flow through the whole system is paramount.
Talk to the Esmeril guys about that.

The problem with higher compression motors isn't just that they are "more difficult to tune" (although this is true)

Higher compression ratios raise combustion temperatures and exhaust gas temperature (EGT). The problem you run into when you throw boost in the mix is you can't find a workable solution between air/fuel ratio and ignition.

You need a rich AFR to keep EGT's and engine temperatures down, but that drowns out power. If you lean it out your EGT's skyrocket and the motor overheats. There is only so much you can do before the mixture takes matters into its own hands and ignites itself (detonation).

You can also try retarding ignition to reduce the chance to detonation, but then you decrease power as well.

So now you have to run your engine with pig rich AFRs and retarded ignition to keep its apex seals intact, and throw in some hot, high-pressure compressed air from a turbo. Yeah, it's gets difficult to tune.

But higher compression forced induction motors aren't all bad. A higher compression turbo motor will spool the turbo faster, and will make torque much quicker.

I understand your train of thought, Paul. Pressure is pressure, right? You need to think in terms of tuning and temperatures, however.

You know, this is an RX-8 forum, right?

Your contributions are probably better applied to the RX-7Club WEB site.

There are plenty of people with "big" turbo units that can "support" very high numbers.
But that is completely irrelevant since flow through the whole system is paramount.
Talk to the Esmeril guys about that.

You do know this is a thread about turbo kits right?
I never said I invented the "big" turbo set up, nor did I say they were rare, or I was the only one with one. I do remember saying the turbo "kit" would support 700hp IF THE ENGINE COULD KEEP UP. The other "kits" available I see drop off waaay before that, not because of the engine, but because the system wont flow enough to support more HP. I have no reason to talk to the esmeril guys, if I do need to I wont hesitate to call em. BTW, you of all people should know that this is all pretty universal info that goes for rotaries in general. Hell, gasoline engines in general for that matter.

Your contributions are probably better off re-thought, then deleted.

You do know this is a thread about turbo kits right?
I never said I invented the "big" turbo set up, nor did I say they were rare, or I was the only one with one. I do remember saying the turbo "kit" would support 700hp IF THE ENGINE COULD KEEP UP. The other "kits" available I see drop off waaay before that, not because of the engine, but because the system wont flow enough to support more HP. I have no reason to talk to the esmeril guys, if I do need to I wont hesitate to call em. BTW, you of all people should know that this is all pretty universal info that goes for rotaries in general. Hell, gasoline engines in general for that matter.

Your contributions are probably better off re-thought, then deleted.

This is getting good...

http://www.catwack.com/pics/1029.jpg

carry on...

Outkast... MM is right. He is talking about the car this forum is about, with kits designed for THAT car. It doesn't matter a damn bit if the turbo setup you have can flow enough air for 7000 rwhp if the Renesis for whatever reason (be it high compression or w/e) cannot do anything with it. I know you said "if the engine can keep up" in your post, but your frame of reference is with a different engine and different car. Yes, we all know that Rx7s can generate huge hp numbers due to tons of aftermarket support, long years of availability and a motor designed for stock boost.

Buying a kit is advantageous to most people wanting to go FI with an Rx8 because there isn't as much option on what aftermarket parts are A) available B) trustworthy with the engine. Buying a kit that you know has been fielded by other people with your specific car is a good way to limit the risk of going FI in the first place. It's possible the more knowledgable among the forum could put together pieces more cheaply than a kit... but the rest of us have to wait until they market the damn thing. *poke nudge* BHR/MM. :D

I understand your train of thought, Paul. Pressure is pressure, right? You need to think in terms of tuning and temperatures, however.

your right, i was on the boat, just didnt know where it was going, lol.

higher compression makes a difference cause you cant cool that with an intercooler etc, like you can an intake charge :)

Since we are talking turbo kits, and not engines, the engine is not really relivant.

Once again.....never said it will make 700hp on a renesis. I said it will support 700hp.

Hmmmm.. let me think.... a 'best turbo kits" thread in the Major Horsepower Upgrades of an RX-8 based forum.....

yep, i think we are all talking Renesis's here... cept for you. Your case/car only belongs here(in the appropriate forum) in the sense of "check out the swap i did" and any technical aspects of the swap itself.... all the tech that applies to your motor belongs on 7club. Any general theory/ideas you want to discuss though can go in the tech garage...

Well, I can see where you are coming from. But, its general advice for any engine ever created.

Lets simplify things a bit. Alot of people are getting confused apparently.

Kits available = low HP potential + higher price/ lower quality
Custom kit = higher HP potential + lower price/higher quality

If you are doing it yourself you can cherry pick the parts, its no secret on the parts they are using in the kits...

I now alot of you guys are not very technical savy and dont realize if something doesnt have a sticker on it saying "fits 04-08 RX8" you can still use it. If thats the case, sit back and read things carefully first. A renesis is different, but not THAT different.

Well, I can see where you are coming from. But, its general advice for any engine ever created.

Lets simplify things a bit. Alot of people are getting confused apparently.

Kits available = low HP potential + higher price/ lower quality
Custom kit = higher HP potential + lower price/higher quality

If you are doing it yourself you can cherry pick the parts, its no secret on the parts they are using in the kits...

I now alot of you guys are not very technical savy and dont realize if something doesnt have a sticker on it saying "fits 04-08 RX8" you can still use it. If thats the case, sit back and read things carefully first. A renesis is different, but not THAT different.

So you know all about EVERY turbo kit available for the RX-8? Hmmmm

There actually are some very high quality kits, like the BHR/MM turbo kit. But I suppose you think a custom cast manifold, a Garrett turbocharger, HKS blow-off valve, custom aluminum piping with bead-rolled ends, Samco Sport couplers, t-bolt clamps, and a COBB AccessPORT is all crappy components, eh? Have you ever even reviewed any of the kits out there for the 8?

You make it sounds like all RX-8 turbo kit offerings are E-Bay crap thrown together, and as of now I only know of one that is suspected of that. Yes, some are expensive, but how many RX-8's are on the road compared to RX-7's? It's a more niche market, less buyers= higher individual cost, it's simple business.

I could easily throw a GT4088 on my car if I wanted and say my turbo supports 700-hp, but I would rather keep my tiny GT3071R and have full boost before the sun sets, and still make my pathetic 400-rwhp.

what he said

You guys are all pathetic. I'm buying an 18-wheeler and installing this one billion hp turbo on the trailer.

http://www.rx8club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=125005&stc=1&d=1218908664

Damn! Pwned again!

nothing beats my ebay turbo so you all can pucker up and kiss my a$$

I always knew it Jorge, the darkside got to you............

curiousity killed me but sorry since this not what you guy are talking about but can i use a rew with a renesis ecu???

Sorry if its a stupid question i just thought of it here att work and im clueless.

You guys are all pathetic. I'm buying an 18-wheeler and installing this one billion hp turbo on the trailer.

http://www.rx8club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=125005&stc=1&d=1218908664

I think that thing would be awesome for my Rx8... Renesis kit now up to 1 billion hp!

So you know all about EVERY turbo kit available for the RX-8? Hmmmm

There actually are some very high quality kits, like the BHR/MM turbo kit. But I suppose you think a custom cast manifold, a Garrett turbocharger, HKS blow-off valve, custom aluminum piping with bead-rolled ends, Samco Sport couplers, t-bolt clamps, and a COBB AccessPORT is all crappy components, eh? Have you ever even reviewed any of the kits out there for the 8?

You make it sounds like all RX-8 turbo kit offerings are E-Bay crap thrown together, and as of now I only know of one that is suspected of that. Yes, some are expensive, but how many RX-8's are on the road compared to RX-7's? It's a more niche market, less buyers= higher individual cost, it's simple business.

I could easily throw a GT4088 on my car if I wanted and say my turbo supports 700-hp, but I would rather keep my tiny GT3071R and have full boost before the sun sets, and still make my pathetic 400-rwhp.


Nope, dont know all the kits available. I have never seen one that came with everything you want, I have seen some with piss poor parts, some with over the top high end parts. Which you just proved in your post. If you pick and choose, you can save thousands by not getting all the stuff you dont want. But, I'm sure you already knew that. BHR makes nice stuff, not saying they dont. Does everyone need a custom cast manifold? Does everyone need a HKS wastegate and blow off valve? Hmm, sounds to me like you could just......buy what you actually need? Nah, buy someone's kit...THEN buy the parts you need. Brilliant plan.

If you dont need to be spoon fed, build your own kit and save money.

This turbo kit: http://www.diasio.com/turboengbay.html is one of the best I've seen for the renesis...

too bad it won't fit in the engine bay...lol

anyhoo - everyone knows the best turbo kit is belt driven .....

anyhoo - everyone knows the best turbo kit is belt driven .....

So THAT's why you ordered my kit?:lol:

that was remarkably subdued - was expecting much more venom than that ....

that was remarkably subdued - was expecting much more venom than that ....

Don't worry, I'm sure someone will get around to it.

The darkside is talking over Jedi!

I just want to see chickenwaffer's 400hp dyno chart. Or it didn't happen.:cwm27:

well, you do understand that

MM and BHR has limited knowledge too, no one ever ever had a 5000000whp renesis and we don't even know if that is possible

however, most rx8 turbo kits want to get the MOST out of the forseeable powerband + max power

which is why we prefer faster spooling and using the turbo to it's fullest extent

first step is to find out how much power you need.

For just about everyone, it's going to be 400 whp or less.

With that in mind, Jeff's choice for the turbo is close to perfect. 12 psi at 2800 rpm = win.

If we get to the point where we're seeing people go over 400 whp on a regular basis, I might reconsider this statement, but I honestly don't think a DD will fit that bill with the renesis.

12 psi at 2800 rpm = win.

.

so long as you don't floor it coming out of a tight corner in which case your view of the world will be 360deg of panoramic .....

I've never had that happen to me, but the traction control stuff have kicked on a few times.

You can also taper the boost so that it's a bit more gradual.

Soon we will be seeing Taj and his turbo'd Camery!

and Ray promised me a Job if I can get his turbo kit to fit a civic

I WILL TRY!!

so long as you don't floor it coming out of a tight corner in which case your view of the world will be 360deg of panoramic .....

I just spent 4 sessions on Firebird west and I don't recall a 360° panoramic.
I guess self control comes with age.

Nope, dont know all the kits available. I have never seen one that came with everything you want, I have seen some with piss poor parts, some with over the top high end parts. Which you just proved in your post. If you pick and choose, you can save thousands by not getting all the stuff you dont want. But, I'm sure you already knew that. BHR makes nice stuff, not saying they dont. Does everyone need a custom cast manifold? Does everyone need a HKS wastegate and blow off valve? Hmm, sounds to me like you could just......buy what you actually need? Nah, buy someone's kit...THEN buy the parts you need. Brilliant plan.

If you dont need to be spoon fed, build your own kit and save money.

The MM/BHR kit has everything I listed (except the HKS wastegate you threw in there for some reason). But you do NEED everything the kit comes with. Are you going to run without a manifold, or couplers, or a blow-off valve? The kit doesn't come with frills.


I just want to see chickenwaffer's 400hp dyno chart. Or it didn't happen.:cwm27:

LOL, hopefully pretty soon with water/meth injection.

The MM/BHR kit has everything I listed (except the HKS wastegate you threw in there for some reason). But you do NEED everything the kit comes with. Are you going to run without a manifold, or couplers, or a blow-off valve? The kit doesn't come with frills.




LOL, hopefully pretty soon with water/meth injection.

Yea....you need the stuff it comes with. You dont need the exact parts. Come on guys, lets show some common sense. Im guessing you bought a kit, so you are defending your purchase.

Lets do this...post the kit you prefer, and list EVERYTHING it comes with. We can decide from there. Before this thread turns into a useless heap of crap.

Before this thread turns into a useless heap of crap.

Too late. :)

Yea....you need the stuff it comes with. You dont need the exact parts. Come on guys, lets show some common sense. Im guessing you bought a kit, so you are defending your purchase.

Lets do this...post the kit you prefer, and list EVERYTHING it comes with. We can decide from there. Before this thread turns into a useless heap of crap.

man i cant believe you are still here... common sense, you want common sense?

ask your self this: What makes a turbo kit BEST?

Your answer will be different than mine, and from CW's and from countless other people. Its called personal opinion and preference.

For me, i dont need shiny pipes, chrome, or a big front mount snail. I prefer to have everything hidden away and simple looking. Add quality parts and you have me Best kit.

for others its not the same.... your asking for common sense out one side of the mouth, while asking everyone to agree on preferential issues out the other.... idiot




why dont you just drop your sac already and tell us what YOU think is the best turbo kit setup, top to bottom... tell us how YOU would have designed one....

man i cant believe you are still here... common sense, you want common sense?

ask your self this: What makes a turbo kit BEST?

Your answer will be different than mine, and from CW's and from countless other people. Its called personal opinion and preference.

For me, i dont need shiny pipes, chrome, or a big front mount snail. I prefer to have everything hidden away and simple looking. Add quality parts and you have me Best kit.

for others its not the same.... your asking for common sense out one side of the mouth, while asking everyone to agree on preferential issues out the other.... idiot




why dont you just drop your sac already and tell us what YOU think is the best turbo kit setup, top to bottom... tell us how YOU would have designed one....


What makes the best kit? A personalized system that its perfectly suited for your individual needs. A daily driver, drag car, and autocrosser will all have different needs...why let someone else decide what they think you need? All while paying thousands extra......

If you are not competent enough to figure out what to buy for your personal needs, do you really think you are ready for a turbo? Sounds to me like you need to do a whole lotta research if thats the case.

And calm it down a few notches.

What makes the best kit? A personalized system that its perfectly suited for your individual needs. A daily driver, drag car, and autocrosser will all have different needs...why let someone else decide what they think you need? All while paying thousands extra......

But this is exactly what you were suggesting by "pushing" your 700 HP system.

My turbo does everything I want. Full boost before 3500rpm, the max power I want, and drives like an OEM turbo RX-8. Exactly what I wanted.

And mine wasn't really a kit, it was more pieced together and but it all works amazing. That's the whole theory with the MM/BHR kit; toss the crappy GReddy parts out and replaced them with better parts.

The think the point Outkast187 is trying to make is that you should not just buy a kit because someone says it is a good kit, you should know what you want and have a kit that meets your needs. I agree with that 100%.

Now another point he is trying to make is that you can save money by putting the kit togeather yourself. (I dont agree with this) but I guess if you dont have anything better to do with your time except search for what parts you want, then for the best price on each part, then the hard part of making them all fit togeather only to find out that you forgot a few things or some things did not fit. Then go back a repeat the needed steps all the while not having a car to drive.

If you have the time and fabrication skills, then go right ahead but for most people they would prefer to research the available kits and buy something that is proven to perform. If they want to save money they will install it themselves. I dont think you can save thousands of dollars by putting togeather your own kit. Maybe a few hundred here and there but you will spend a lot more time and time is money.

They have a term for what Outkast187 is suggesting, it is called "trying to re-invent the wheel" I am all about modifying the wheel to fit your needs or preference but in the end, both wheels will still be round and still role.

The think the point Outkast187 is trying to make is that you should not just buy a kit because someone says it is a good kit, you should know what you want and have a kit that meets your needs. I agree with that 100%.


I stopped right about here...

Look...people...this is very simple...do the math, work within reason, and produce stable predictable results...

Oh and remember...people are stupid and they only THINK they know what they want...and most of the time they are wrong...

personal "meets and needs"...pffft....

try...this engine's "NEEDS"...as in...this engine works as designed a certain way...

go with the flow? dont cram a round cube into a square peg kinda stuff...

you want to add a snail to an engine...do the math...let the engine tell you...not the other way around...unless your going to start from the ground up...

Yea....you need the stuff it comes with. You dont need the exact parts. Come on guys, lets show some common sense. Im guessing you bought a kit, so you are defending your purchase.

Lets do this...post the kit you prefer, and list EVERYTHING it comes with. We can decide from there. Before this thread turns into a useless heap of crap.

ok, my fantasy world best kit would...

-be able to spool sub-3000rpms.
-be able to break the 300whp range without falling off
-include: turbo, manifold, downpipe, cold pipes, intercooler, intake (quality parts of course)
-include: injectors, Engine management, couplers, clamps, oil/water lines, fitting, vacuum line, etc(all the small stuff)
-Include: Nexus gauges, Profec II Spec B


-its HARD to sell a kit with gauges, everyone has their own preference in them.
-realistically, most/all of the turbo kits out there now are capable of the same ranges of power, its just a matter of when do you want it spooled?

-Strange the above description, minus the gauges and choice in turbo (spool time), seems pretty much a good description of all the major players' kits...


What you're talking about it a custom turbo setup.... something that cant well be marketed, and which would by default no longer be custom if it was marketed with success

What you're talking about it a custom turbo setup.... something that cant well be marketed, and which would by default no longer be custom if it was marketed with success

*DING*

It's a marketable product when its not a "custom" affair...

Ask not what your doritos can do for you ask, what can I do for my doritos??

^^ mmmmm doritos :) I is eating them now

What do you have against the Apexi AVCR?? Why Profec?

I just spent 4 sessions on Firebird west and I don't recall a 360° panoramic.
I guess self control comes with age.

I just came back from 5 sessions at Pukekohe race track . Some guy in an Evo 8 MR spun out right in front of me -right in the middle of a sweeping right hander - could not believe my eyes as he was going slower than I was .
The driver either hit the brakes or the accelerator hard in the middle of the corner - if he could do that in a 4wd that is supposed to handle Imagine how easy it would have been for him to spin out in a 2wd RX8 with a fast spooling turbo .
Like you say - a good driver can handle it . To a bad driver - could be a weapon .

BTW - next time I came around an RX7 batman had smacked into the EVO and there was carnage ......

I just came back from 5 sessions at Pukekohe race track . Some guy in an Evo 8 MR spun out right in front of me -right in the middle of a sweeping right hander - could not believe my eyes as he was going slower than I was .
The driver either hit the brakes or the accelerator hard in the middle of the corner - if he could do that in a 4wd that is supposed to handle Imagine how easy it would have been for him to spin out in a 2wd RX8 with a fast spooling turbo .
Like you say - a good driver can handle it . To a bad driver - could be a weapon .

BTW - next time I came around an RX7 batman had smacked into the EVO and there was carnage ......

So your point is bad drivers are bad? How is that even relevant? Does the spool point of any reasonable kit really have mention in a relation to track time? I have one of the higher spooling kits and I expect if I'm under 4500 rpms on a track, I probably did something pretty wrong. Personally, for me, spooling to full boost under 4000 rpms for me is entirely unimportant so a kit that did so was not of added value to me.

Were I shopping for a kit now, the questions I would ask are:
1. What is the build quality and history of the kit/vendor?
2. How is there customer service?
3. Can it accomplish your goals and yield a torque curve you are happy with?

I considered piecing together a custom turbo setup (with the help of a fabricator as I do not weld) and the cost in time and money versus buying an off the shelf unit was not favorable. That might, however, have more to do with my standards and expectations rather than what is and is not possible.

I must say I am amazed this post went more than 2 pages and ever evolved into a discussion.

Does the spool point of any reasonable kit really have mention in a relation to track time? .

fair point . One of the reasons an RX8 is such a good track car for the average driver is because power is so linear . I was merely pointing out that if you strap a turbo on you need to up your driving skills as well .

Power from the (properly sized) turbo is equally linear. There is no "nothing, nothing, SLAM".
I hit the gas and its all there.

But this is exactly what you were suggesting by "pushing" your 700 HP system.

When have I suggested to ANYONE that they need the same setup I have?? :uhh: I pointed out, I built a custom kit at half the price and twice the power capability. I did not claim to make 700rwhp, didnt advise anyone to buy any specific kit...the only reason I gave ANY specs is because you asked for them.

The think the point Outkast187 is trying to make is that you should not just buy a kit because someone says it is a good kit, you should know what you want and have a kit that meets your needs. I agree with that 100%.

Now another point he is trying to make is that you can save money by putting the kit togeather yourself. (I dont agree with this) but I guess if you dont have anything better to do with your time except search for what parts you want, then for the best price on each part, then the hard part of making them all fit togeather only to find out that you forgot a few things or some things did not fit. Then go back a repeat the needed steps all the while not having a car to drive.

If you have the time and fabrication skills, then go right ahead but for most people they would prefer to research the available kits and buy something that is proven to perform. If they want to save money they will install it themselves. I dont think you can save thousands of dollars by putting togeather your own kit. Maybe a few hundred here and there but you will spend a lot more time and time is money.

They have a term for what Outkast187 is suggesting, it is called "trying to re-invent the wheel" I am all about modifying the wheel to fit your needs or preference but in the end, both wheels will still be round and still role.

Right on the money. People sell what they CAN sell...be it availability, highest profit, and/or easiest to warranty. Trust me. I'm not selling anything, hell...I am showing a cheaper alternative. Is someone who claims I am dead wrong selling a kit for profit?? :lol: HHhmm makes ya think huh. :uhh:

Your last comment is what its all about. We can see what parts are in known kits, so we can easily look for better parts for certain needs.

How many guys are in the record books or winners circle running some generic kit on anything? Looks like these guys built the better mouse trap.

Its funny, I see name calling, rude remarks, and yet no lists of parts, no prices, and no performance #s saying I am wrong.

When have I suggested to ANYONE that they need the same setup I have?? :uhh: I pointed out, I built a custom kit at half the price and twice the power capability. I did not claim to make 700rwhp, didnt advise anyone to buy any specific kit...the only reason I gave ANY specs is because you asked for them.



Right on the money. People sell what they CAN sell...be it availability, highest profit, and/or easiest to warranty. Trust me. I'm not selling anything, hell...I am showing a cheaper alternative. Is someone who claims I am dead wrong selling a kit for profit?? :lol: HHhmm makes ya think huh. :uhh:

Your last comment is what its all about. We can see what parts are in known kits, so we can easily look for better parts for certain needs.

How many guys are in the record books or winners circle running some generic kit on anything? Looks like these guys built the better mouse trap.

Its funny, I see name calling, rude remarks, and yet no lists of parts, no prices, and no performance #s saying I am wrong.

i am a bit confused here.

you made a custom turbo for your car. you have fabrication skills.

99% of us out here do not have these skills.

so are options are a kit.

the only one i know that will adjust hot and cold sides is mazsport. i could be wrong. as i have no skills at all. i just read. :)

i really dont understand what you are getting at. 99% dont have the skills that you have, but you what to say everyone else is wrong, you are right.

so are you going to open up a tech school? :) is that the point?

if it were easy every one would have done it.

beers :beer:

I've completely lost track of what the hell you are trying to say.

What is your point, exactly?

You do know those cars in record books cost 50X what anyone else here will ever spend on their entire car, right? And that those kits are specifically tailored to breaking their respective records.

I've completely lost track of what the hell you are trying to say.

What is your point, exactly?

You do know those cars in record books cost 50X what anyone else here will ever spend on their entire car, right? And that those kits are specifically tailored to breaking their respective records.

i think it is a diy thing. like sways or shocks.

i wish i had those mad skillz! but i did, but not the equipment..

beers :beer:

What do you have against the Apexi AVCR?? Why Profec?

who me???

no reason at all... i know nothing of either except that i know some people who could help with the Profec if i couldnt figure it out...?

1 7/8" primary tubes (off the top of my head)
3" down pipe
gt4088 w/H cover or S cover preferably
spearco intercooler
tial 44mm wastegate
greddy BOV(had it sitting here, so it was basically a freebie)
Haltech E6X


Well, let's say you just wanted to make a 400-500 whp setup on stock Rx-8 rotors. You have listed your tubular manifold, intercooler, management, wg, bov, and downpipe. You haven't listed everything you'd need.

A) You need intercooler piping and maybe some intake piping.
B) Fuel pump, primary and secondary injectors
C) Ignition coils

Without B and C, your system will be capped in the low 300 whp range running maybe 8 psi. A 1.5 pressure ratio doesn't even touch the second tier island of the GT4088 compressor map. Secondly, regardless of your tuning, even an adiabatic compression of your intake charge coming in at ambient at the TB would eventually lead to auto-ignition without hot spots. So, it's reasonable to think you might want to get into meth/water injection north of 400 whp.

Say you go:
management - 500
manifold - 500
bov + WG - 400
pipes - 1000
IC - 300
FP - 200
injectors - 400
coils - 300
turbo - 1000
couplers/fittings/etc - 500

That's $5100 with prices that aren't high. You can probably get a turbo for less, but the piping/manifold would be more. This somewhat assumes you aren't doing the cutting/welding yourself. This is all engineered by yourself with you as the sole person responsible for the result with no test case for reference. For a lot of people, going from $4500-$5000 in parts to $6000-$6500 with design already accounted for is a deal. If I were to design a kit and bill myself engineering/fab time, it would be WAY cheaper to buy a kit. The one nice thing about designing a kit is if you are knowledgeable enough to identify where the kits you look at cut a corner to remain cost effective, you can make that change. There is nothing inherently wrong with designing your own custom solution. It is just a matter of having the capabilities and will to do it.

There is nothing inherently wrong with designing your own custom solution. It is just a matter of having the capabilities and will to do it.

Right...and MY time is worth alot more than me having to jack with it...

That's why I work...to pay someone else to do the crap I dont feel like doing...

:boink:

Right...and MY time is worth alot more than me having to jack with it...

That's why I work...to pay someone else to do the crap I dont feel like doing...

:boink:

Thats certainly one way to look at it. And not a thing wrong with that. I certainly take that approach on certain things, it makes the world go round.

As far as fabrication goes, its really alot easier than you guys think. I think its a dark area for alot of people, and if you actually looked at a few systems you could build it from scratch fairly easy. The piping is a easy place to save money. If you can weld aluminum(tall order I know) you can build nearly anything, and better than any kit. You can still just use couplers and make just about anything. Just dont buy thin garbage....2mm is a good thickness for most applications.

Thats certainly one way to look at it. And not a thing wrong with that. I certainly take that approach on certain things, it makes the world go round.

As far as fabrication goes, its really alot easier than you guys think. I think its a dark area for alot of people, and if you actually looked at a few systems you could build it from scratch fairly easy. The piping is a easy place to save money. If you can weld aluminum(tall order I know) you can build nearly anything, and better than any kit. You can still just use couplers and make just about anything. Just dont buy thin garbage....2mm is a good thickness for most applications.

You see...I CAN fabricate...and I KNOW I can make it cheaper...not by much on the BHR kit...that's a pretty complete deal for the price...

So...if I WERE to fabricate my own setup...and use good parts...and properly design it...and then get some pretty sweet deals on the parts...I would save a whole what...$500 - $1000 bucks???

I use the BHR kit as the only true entry-level "turn-key kit"...as the Greedy one is simply flaky at best...

I'd rather just use that time to do something else...its simply not worth redoing the work I would have done myself...only to save $1k max...

Now if it was like $5k...that would be different....

I can't fabricate a damn thing... if I tried to fabricate couplers, or god forbid a manifold I would end up welding something to my own face in all likelyhood. I seriously don't mind buying a kit other people have actually tested before jamming it in my car. I probably speak for the majority in this too...

If you can fab your own components, thats cool man, I seriously don't disagree with what you are saying, I just disagree for me. I think a lot of the bitter comments resulted from the Rx7 talk earlier which just don't apply to the Rx8 as the car is a whole different beast.

Power from the (properly sized) turbo is equally linear. There is no "nothing, nothing, SLAM".
I hit the gas and its all there.

I prefer to call it "lag........lag.........lag............BOOOM!!"

Fabricating can be more difficult than it looks. Making a weld that holds up to potential 2000F exhaust gas temperatures is no small task.

The biggest pain in constructing your own kit isn't welding, it's the time and pain it takes to test fit everything, measure, mess it up, and make another one. I speak from experience.

But for some people that's half the fun, I know, because it is for me. But most people (read: 98%) want to buy a kit and slap it on. You know how much people bitch and whine when a part is a hair off from fitting perfect.

When you buy a kit you aren't just paying for hardware. You are paying for the fabrication time, the research and development time to make sure the kit performs as advertised, and that it fits. Most people are willing to pay for a profit margin.

^ making a turbo kit is fun indeed

especially when you test fit and go like

ahhhh shit, I don't think that'll work

Lots of that.

Lots of that.

I think the funnest part of fabricating for me would be welding something to my face... like an exhaust manifold. Man would there be some laughs.

Fabricating can be more difficult than it looks. Making a weld that holds up to potential 2000F exhaust gas temperatures is no small task.

The biggest pain in constructing your own kit isn't welding, it's the time and pain it takes to test fit everything, measure, mess it up, and make another one. I speak from experience.

But for some people that's half the fun, I know, because it is for me. But most people (read: 98%) want to buy a kit and slap it on. You know how much people bitch and whine when a part is a hair off from fitting perfect.

When you buy a kit you aren't just paying for hardware. You are paying for the fabrication time, the research and development time to make sure the kit performs as advertised, and that it fits. Most people are willing to pay for a profit margin.

Yeah...

My first build was fun...now I'm good tho...I've bled and blown stuff up already...

Pay for someone else to weld a manifold to their face and groin...no problem...

:lol2:

I wish I still had access to the machine shops I had in college. I liked making stuff. I'm not an accomplished welder though.