Any suggestions on where to look for the cause of this? For some reason my STOP fuse blows whenever I press the brake pedal. I have no LED bulbs except my front parking lamps, and my tail lamps are free of water.

Suggestions are needed!

Any suggestions on where to look for the cause of this? For some reason my STOP fuse blows whenever I press the brake pedal. I have no LED bulbs except my front parking lamps, and my tail lamps are free of water.

Suggestions are needed!

remove leds and see if that fixes the problem.. btw, do you have a led in the 3rd brake light???

beer :beer:

remove leds and see if that fixes the problem.. btw, do you have a led in the 3rd brake light???

beer :beer:

3rd brake light had normal bulb. I removed ALL LEDs from the car including the ones in my maplights etc and it still happens.

Strange........will think about it, but after what you said.........I would try this. It's not the map lights or the fact of LED's so forget that. However.........if you do try to just place an LED in the third brake light position as Swoope started to elude to...............you will get ABS and DCS/TCS lights on the dash, that third light is fickle and you'd have to get the load resistors right!

Anyway, you must have a short somwhere in the brake system, so do this.................take all bulbs out of the brake lights.......including third light. Apply brakes and see if it pops, then start putting in one bulb or LED at a time until you find it. It could be the socket or in rare cases a bulb can short out instead of opening up.

Dave

Strange........will think about it, but after what you said.........I would try this. It's not the map lights or the fact of LED's so forget that. However.........if you do try to just place an LED in the third brake light position as Swoope started to elude to...............you will get ABS and DCS/TCS lights on the dash, that third light is fickle and you'd have to get the load resistors right!

Anyway, you must have a short somwhere in the brake system, so do this.................take all bulbs out of the brake lights.......including third light. Apply brakes and see if it pops, then start putting in one bulb or LED at a time until you find it. It could be the socket or in rare cases a bulb can short out instead of opening up.

Dave

I will try this when I get home tonight.

Well now it gets weird...

I replaced the fuse and was going through the motions to test the individual sockets/bulbs, and the fuse never blew. Drove the car around for about 5 hours today and decided to give it a wash. Give it a quick rinse, and as I am pulling out and hit the brakes -POP- goes the fuse and the dreaded lights return.

I just had my tailights replaced a month ago due to moisture, and I am thinking that maybe moisture is shorting these out lights out now. There is NO visible moisture in the lens at all.

Well now it gets weird...

I replaced the fuse and was going through the motions to test the individual sockets/bulbs, and the fuse never blew. Drove the car around for about 5 hours today and decided to give it a wash. Give it a quick rinse, and as I am pulling out and hit the brakes -POP- goes the fuse and the dreaded lights return.

I just had my tailights replaced a month ago due to moisture, and I am thinking that maybe moisture is shorting these out lights out now. There is NO visible moisture in the lens at all.

that sounds about right..

beers :beer:

Okay so I think i have narrowed it down. It must be a wiring issue as it blew the fuse again (today was raining). I took the bulbs out of the tail light and pressed the brake pedal, and the fuse went.

So this means that it is a wiring issue correct? I havent touched any wiring in the car ever. Where should I start the hunt? Keep in mind this ONLY happens when the car gets wet (during a rainstorm or after a car wash).

It's most likely in one of the sockets in the brake lights or close by. It could be way up somewhere else, but that's where I would start. Actually see if you can narrow it down to one side or the other first. This may tell you it's at the brake light or somewhere else. I'll have to look up the wiring schematic to see just how they did it, but I'd still try to find which side.

If you're lucky it might just be in the socket itself. Examine them for any corrosion or deposits that might be bridging the contacts.

Okay....okay....so I didn't go that far and I probably should have, but I'm at work!
Thanks Nubo........that should help him now that he has a little more detail. If he had a meter and knew how to use it, it would help.......but we have to do what we can. Hope he gets some more fuses as the debug is gonna eat up a few.

I have a multimeter and began doing some testing. So far all the sockets seem to check out.

If I press the brake pedal with the car OFF the fuse stays intact and my brake lights work fine. As soon as I turn the car on and press the brake pedal the fuse pops. What else is wired through that STOP fuse?

Fairly simple circuit by itself, no other loads on it, but there are connections to the TCS, DSC and Auto Tranny, if you have 'em.

S

i have a feeling that when they replaced your lights they may have damaged one of the wires going to the bulbs which is now grounding/shorting out against the body of the car, thats why it will go away sometimes and other times it wont, if you get it to not blow out, or have a circuit testing circuit breaker, trying grabbing the wires going to the lights and moving them around against the body and such and see if it blows when you do that.

altho since you said it happened again after rinsing the car it may be bad light sockets.

kevin.

Guess what bothers me here Kevin is............He says it won't blow with the car off and applying brakes, but only with the car on. If it was a short to the chassis then it really shouldn't matter if car is off or on. I think I would take a real good look at all the connectors and pins in them. But I still contend that he's gonna have to first troubleshoot it a side at a time, and now throw in whether it's really true about the car on/off thing..........becuase that actuall could lead back to the TCS/DCS etc. circuit as Stealth points out. This has the be pretty methodical to figure out where it is. I would start by removing all bulbs.....including the third brake light and try using the brakes with both the car off and on(several times) and then start adding bulbs. Once you kinda find out which leg, then you could hook up the meter and start moving wires around. That's would just be my approach, but you never know......we aren't really there and don't have all the data that he's learned sp far.

Guess what bothers me here Kevin is............He says it won't blow with the car off and applying brakes, but only with the car on. If it was a short to the chassis then it really shouldn't matter if car is off or on. I think I would take a real good look at all the connectors and pins in them. But I still contend that he's gonna have to first troubleshoot it a side at a time, and now throw in whether it's really true about the car on/off thing..........becuase that actuall could lead back to the TCS/DCS etc. circuit as Stealth points out. This has the be pretty methodical to figure out where it is. I would start by removing all bulbs.....including the third brake light and try using the brakes with both the car off and on(several times) and then start adding bulbs. Once you kinda find out which leg, then you could hook up the meter and start moving wires around. That's would just be my approach, but you never know......we aren't really there and don't have all the data that he's learned sp far.

Here is is todays results so far:

Car Off - No Bulbs - Fuse Intact
Car Off - Bulb in DS Socket ONLY - Fuse Intact
Car Off - Bulb in PS Socket ONLY - Fuse Intact
Car Off - Bulb in 3rd Light Socket ONLY - Fuse Intact
Car Off - Bulbs in ALL Sockets - Fuse Intact

Car On - No Bulbs - Fuse Blows
Car On - Bulb in DS Socket ONLY - Fuse Blows
Car On - Bulb in PS Socket ONLY - Fuse Blows
Car On - Bulb in 3rd Light Socket ONLY - Fuse Blows
Car On - Bulbs in ALL Sockets - Fuse Blows

This is all done with the car NOT moving and just sitting still. When the fuse does stay intact (roads/cry dry) the TCS and DSC all be have normal as does the ABS.

Could it be possible that it is a ABS issue? Where are the ABS sensors on the wheels?

Here is is todays results so far:

Car Off - No Bulbs - Fuse Intact
Car On - Bulb in DS Socket ONLY - Fuse Intact
Car On - Bulb in PS Socket ONLY - Fuse Intact
Car On - Bulb in 3rd Light Socket ONLY - Fuse Intact
Car On - Bulbs in ALL Sockets - Fuse Intact

Car On - No Bulbs - Fuse Blows
Car On - Bulb in DS Socket ONLY - Fuse Blows
Car On - Bulb in PS Socket ONLY - Fuse Blows
Car On - Bulb in 3rd Light Socket ONLY - Fuse Blows
Car On - Bulbs in ALL Sockets - Fuse Blows

This is all done with the car NOT moving and just sitting still. When the fuse does stay intact (roads/cry dry) the TCS and DSC all be have normal as does the ABS.

Could it be possible that it is a ABS issue? Where are the ABS sensors on the wheels?


Before I try to answer anything else............am I to assume that in the first group you didn't touch the brake pedal at all, and in the second group you did? And double check that what you said about car on and off is also correct above. Just looking for conformation.

Before I try to answer anything else............am I to assume that in the first group you didn't touch the brake pedal at all, and in the second group you did? And double check that what you said about car on and off is also correct above. Just looking for conformation.

I am an idiot, and sorry for the confusion. Here is the correct info:


Car Off - No Bulbs - Fuse Intact
Car Off - Bulb in DS Socket ONLY - Fuse Intact
Car Off - Bulb in PS Socket ONLY - Fuse Intact
Car Off - Bulb in 3rd Light Socket ONLY - Fuse Intact
Car Off - Bulbs in ALL Sockets - Fuse Intact

Car On - No Bulbs - Fuse Blows
Car On - Bulb in DS Socket ONLY - Fuse Blows
Car On - Bulb in PS Socket ONLY - Fuse Blows
Car On - Bulb in 3rd Light Socket ONLY - Fuse Blows
Car On - Bulbs in ALL Sockets - Fuse Blows

This is all done with the car NOT moving and just sitting still. When the fuse does stay intact (roads/cry dry) the TCS and DSC all be have normal as does the ABS. I am pressing the brake pedal in BOTH cases car on and car off.

Could it be possible that it is a ABS issue? Where are the ABS sensors on the wheels?

Okay.....now I can think about it some more. Will post back but probably not before tomorrow.

All we have really eliminated is the bulbs of course and them not causing the short in some strange manner. I need to really go look at the wiring diagrams now.

And...............you applied the brakes in each group right?

It didn't blow in second group until you applied brakes or did it go right away without touching brakes?

disable the tc and dsc with a button push. also pull abs fuse.

see what happens..

beers :beer:

Okay.....now I can think about it some more. Will post back but probably not before tomorrow.

All we have really eliminated is the bulbs of course and them not causing the short in some strange manner. I need to really go look at the wiring diagrams now.

And...............you applied the brakes in each group right?

It didn't blow in second group until you applied brakes or did it go right away without touching brakes?

No the fuse only blows when you touch the brakes. Also one thing I noticed is that it doesnt happen right as soon as you touch the pedal, but rather after you hold it for about 1-2 seconds.

disable the tc and dsc with a button push. also pull abs fuse.

see what happens..

beers :beer:

Going to try this today and will report back.

Thanks Swoope, that was gonna be my next suggestion. I'm beginning to wonder if it's not in the ABS circuit or connectors somewhere? Will be interesting to see what happens when he tries that and then we will go from there. Could there just be moisture still trapped inside one of the ABS connectors somewhere......who knows........or just a bad connector? That may be the next step after we know about the above.

ya know,

that just reminded me.

a diy for abs sensor or leveling sensor that would go bad and could be fixed by moding the connector.. i think h20 was teh issue..

beers :beer:

Well is was an ABS connector issue. However instead of mucking around I just traded the car in. Thanks guys for all your help!

Wow....................what did you get?

Well is was an ABS connector issue. However instead of mucking around I just traded the car in.

Why didn't I think of that? :Eyecrazy:

Wow....................what did you get?

Picked up a 335i

I have run into the same problem with my STOP fuse. Keeps blowing only when I tap the breaks. I see that the last guy gave up on the problem. Has anyone else seen a solution to this problem?

I have had a history of moisture in my taillights, but nothing recently. I will try disconnecting the bulbs and going from there, Car off and car on.

What all does the STOP fuse feed? Thanks for the help.

...What all does the STOP fuse feed? ... Brake lights only.

Thanks. Is there a wiring diagram which shows how the STOP fuse interacts with the ABS and Traction Control Systems. I found this one in the manual, but I do not see the STOP fuse. The reason why I ask, is because my ABS and Traction Control lights will not go off and that led me to the STOP fuse.

http://www.myrotarycar.com/portal/forum/uploads/RX8TX/Manuals/CD05-xx-03le/esicont/en/srvc/html/BHE040343000W01.html

Thanks. Is there a wiring diagram which shows how the STOP fuse interacts with the ABS and Traction Control Systems. ....

:beerchug: STOP fuse = Brake Lights only AFAIK ... but have a look for yourself! (http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=168531)

OK, thanks found the STOP wiring diagram to the brake lights. Any clue why the STOP fuse is blowing when the ABS and Traction control indicator lights are coming on if they are not wired together?

Page F3 of the diagram shows the simple circuit - thru the fuse to the switch, then thru all three lamps to ground.

If it's not a bad socket or a pinched wire, you have to assume it's 'that' signal wire to the DCS, TCS and ABS......which probably means you'll never find it.

... Any clue why the STOP fuse is blowing when the ABS and Traction control indicator lights are coming on if they are not wired together?

What happens if you put in a new STOP fuse, then push on the brake pedal for 1 minute without starting the car (no key in)? Does the fuse blow or not? If it does not blow, what happens to the fuse if you start the car? Have your replaced any of the brake lights prior to this problem starting?

Ok, well I figured out that my 3rd brake light is causing the fuse to blow (Car on or off). The bulb in the light looked a little corroded, so I replaced it. I then pressed my brakes and the light bulb lit (no fuse blow) with my car off. I put everything back together and go to start the car to drive it and the fuse blows again?? I ran out of time to continue troubleshooting, but the only things left are the wire to the socket and the socket itself? Thoughts? I am not sure why the fuse did not blow with the car off........

For now I just disconnected the third brake light from the connector, so I at least have two functioning brake lights and my ABS and traction control indicator lights are no longer lit on my dashboard. Thanks for the help so far.

Any feedback?

jdzoom8, Is it all good still with the 3rd brake light removed?

short somewhere in that wire i think would be obvious, the 3rd brake light i believe is on a different leg of the harness.

I attached 4 pics, the first is connector 0918-1202 this is where the 3rd brake light connects to the rest of the brake wiring. Full location diagram.

The second is the 3rd brake light schematic. The B/Y wire going to the 3rd brake light is the thing you want to focus on most likely between the connectors 0918-1202(above attachment) and 0918-1203 (the next attachment).

3rd pic is of 0918-1203 connector, which is the connector at the area where the lightbulb goes into.

4th pic is the diagram of your wiring showing that b/y wire connects all systems you had problems with. ABS, DSC etc. That diagram is everything that is on the stop fuse's circuit. so simply by narrowing it to the 3rd brake light you can isolate the circuit. Find a short there somewhere, if not then it's somewhere after connector 0918-1202 which only has one other connector between it and the brake switch (which opens and close the stop fuse's circuit). But now you have one specific wire to test. And since disconnecting the buld fixes it im guessing it between the two connectors i posted pics of. That may be an individual harness available from the dealer if you wanna just give it a shot.

youre very close to finding it, dont give up yet.

kevin.

i have somewhat similar probelm with the turn signals. both left right and emergency doesnt work some times. i was thinking it was a short somewhere but i dont know where. =(

i have somewhat similar probelm with the turn signals. both left right and emergency doesnt work some times. i was thinking it was a short somewhere but i dont know where. =(

sounds like a loose 0918-1001 connector. Find it's wiring diagram you'll see the hazard switch and turn signal switch wiring is completely seperate. since both dont operate you can assume the problem comes from where they both start from. Leads back to the flasher control module, the only place both systems meet. So you could have an intermittently bad module, or what is more likely is a simple loose or dirty connection. The systems as i said never have their wires "touching" until they plug into the module.

thats assuming both those switches are actually becoming inop. If those actually are working fine then it's where the info from the module is output, again in connector 0918-1001, terminals G an D.

When your blinkers stop working do the arrows blink on your instrument cluster, do they stay lit up or do they not come on. After you answer that i could narrow it down further for you, save you some time.

[edit, i'll try to answer all 3 to cover bases:
if the arrows blink and none of your blinkers work the flasher module is operating and getting power to the outputs. since the lights are blinking you go to connectors C-09 and C-05 which are for the front and rear connectors. The chance of this happening is slim, a failure at two seperate connectors? Most likely your blinker lights would blink but either 1 or 2 will be out and it will be either fronts or rears. Thats what blinking arrows on the cluster show.

if the arrows just stay lit up and not blinking and your blinkers dont blink most likely either a bad module. Could be a ground in the wiring to the cluster arrow light but im not sure this would caus ethe light on and blinkers off, i think this would cause light on cluster and all blinkers lit up.

If the arrows never come on you either have a poor connection on connector 0918-1001 or a bad module since you said neither the turn signals or hazard switches work.
[end edit, think everything came out right, open to opinion, posting circuit diagram so everyone can look it over, i feel like im incorrect on some of that, not the best state of mind ATM]

Attached another image of where the module is located.

kevin.

blinkers on intrument cluter doesnt blink at all. and it feels different when i use the signal lever thing.

blinkers on intrument cluter doesnt blink at all. and it feels different when i use the signal lever thing.
blinker light doesnt come on, ok, do the blinkers themselves work even tho the clusters do, i assume no?

kevin.

umm i coulnd check because the lever dosent click in place. this just started to happened yesterday afternoon, but it worked when i stopped to check what was wrong

umm i coulnd check because the lever dosent click in place. this just started to happened yesterday afternoon, but it worked when i stopped to check what was wrong

lever doesnt click in? definitely fix that first then see what happens from there...could be not even sending signal or sending wrong one at wrong time to the module and confusing it.

kevin.

mm.. maybe. i think ill take it in to mazda and see if they can tell me whats wrong for free.
thanks for helping!

jdzoom8, Is it all good still with the 3rd brake light removed?

Yes, still no problems without the 3rd brake light connected. The wire from the 3rd brake light has a connector right next to the cluster by the driver's side rear taillight. Right now I just unconnected it to avoid blowing the fuse and/or lighting up the ABS and traction control indicators until I figure out the problem.

short somewhere in that wire i think would be obvious, the 3rd brake light i believe is on a different leg of the harness.

I attached 4 pics, the first is connector 0918-1202 this is where the 3rd brake light connects to the rest of the brake wiring. Full location diagram.

The second is the 3rd brake light schematic. The B/Y wire going to the 3rd brake light is the thing you want to focus on most likely between the connectors 0918-1202(above attachment) and 0918-1203 (the next attachment).

3rd pic is of 0918-1203 connector, which is the connector at the area where the lightbulb goes into.

4th pic is the diagram of your wiring showing that b/y wire connects all systems you had problems with. ABS, DSC etc. That diagram is everything that is on the stop fuse's circuit. so simply by narrowing it to the 3rd brake light you can isolate the circuit. Find a short there somewhere, if not then it's somewhere after connector 0918-1202 which only has one other connector between it and the brake switch (which opens and close the stop fuse's circuit). But now you have one specific wire to test. And since disconnecting the buld fixes it im guessing it between the two connectors i posted pics of. That may be an individual harness available from the dealer if you wanna just give it a shot.

youre very close to finding it, dont give up yet.

kevin.

Thanks for the detailed feedback. Helpful.

Thanks for the detailed feedback. Helpful.
Thank you for the appreciation. All i hope is that my post assists you in finding your problem finally. Blowing fuses sucks, and I had a car who's brake lights decided to fail at the exact wrong time, resulted in that car being totalled in a rear-end collision rather tragically.

kevin.

ahh im having the same prob with the stop fuse blowing all the time. Need help..

Car is an 04 with 61K miles... When I turn on the car and press brake pedal for about 1-3 seconds the two lights go on and I check under the hood and the fuse is blown.

I checked the 3rd brake light wiring/harness...Seems to be fine but the bulb was blown. So replaced bulb and tried new fuse and still blows my fuse.

Then I check the wiring on L/R tails everything seems to be fine no wires loose.

Also when I turn the headlights to On...my L/R tail lights light up but the 3rd one doesn't. Does the 3rd one only go on when the brake pedal is pressed?

Need help.


Also....
Yest I put in a 25A fuse for the stop fuse...Lights didnt go off but when I started driving on the highway my brakes were stopping the car its self....it felt as if I was towing something and the car was just gonna stop. So I pulled over took out the fuse and car drove fine but the lights were on.

Help!

The third/center brake light does not stay illuminated until the brakes are applied.

Have you tried unclipping all three brake light harnesses and inserting them one at a time to identify which one is blowing your fuse? Once you do that, you can identify which branch is causing the problem. Could be the wire, socket, bulb, etc.


Also, I would not insert a higher fuse rating than what is specified, you would be masking the problem potentially and/or creating additional damage. The fuse is a 15A for a reason.

Have you tried unclipping all three brake light harnesses and inserting them one at a time to identify which one is blowing your fuse? Once you do that, you can identify which branch is causing the problem. Could be the wire, socket, bulb, etc.


Also, I would not insert a higher fuse rating than what is specified, you would be masking the problem potentially and/or creating additional damage. The fuse is a 15A for a reason.

No I haven't had time to do that, but will try it. How do u remove the clips in the trunk, there not the twist one's....There the ones with fins.

Can I join the club? My stop fuse is getting killed every time I press the break pedal. Doesn't matter if the car is on or off still does it, I think the harness going to the 3rd brake light is the culprit after reading this. Cause I disconnected the harness at the socket and it still blew the fuse. The odd thing is it will only blow the fuse when the trunk is closed, I think I have a short to ground in that harness. I will update later when I get home and can do some more diagnostic.

It was in the harness for the third brake light. Same place the other guy, who posted pics. (can't remember, too lazy to double check) Thanks to you I knew where to look, re-wired it and it's good as new.

explain bosee!!!

I took off the carpet/insulation whatever you wanna call it, on the driver side of the trunk and off the trunk lid itself. Un-clipped the harness on both ends and removed it from the trunk entirely. The wire insulation broke about three inches below the spot where the wire loom goes into the trunk, where is bends at some crazy angle. I just cut the wires near the clips and re-ran the wires through the looms and butt spliced the wires. Reattached the clips and viola, works great now.

Well I removed the 3rd brake light harness and I put a new fuse in, started the car and my fuse still blew and my brakes didn't light up.

But when i was driving with the blown fuse for about 10 seconds my wheels seemed to be locking on me because I lost alot of power and I down shifted and still couldnt move fast....It seemed as if I was towing something.

Any suggestions???

Well I removed the 3rd brake light harness and I put a new fuse in, started the car and my fuse still blew and my brakes didn't light up.

But when i was driving with the blown fuse for about 10 seconds my wheels seemed to be locking on me because I lost alot of power and I down shifted and still couldnt move fast....It seemed as if I was towing something.

Any suggestions???

bump..

Well I removed the 3rd brake light harness and I put a new fuse in, started the car and my fuse still blew and my brakes didn't light up.

What about the other two brake lights?
All three brake lights come from the STOP fuse, so don't just focus on one of them.

I pulled the carpeting out of my trunk to get a good look at how the brake lights are wired.
This should help narrow down why the STOP fuse keeps blowing.

First thing I would do is disconnect the main rear wire harness.
If the fuse doesn't blow with this harness disconnected, then you know for sure its in the rear somewhere.
139365

Reconnect the main wire harness that you disconnected above.
Next thing to do is disconnect the harness for the 3rd brake light (this is on the driver's side).
If the fuse doesn't blow, then you know its somewhere in the wiring leading up to the 3rd brake light.
If the fuse does blow, then look at where the brake light wires are spliced together.
You'll see them wrapped with electrical tape.
139366

After removing the electrical tape you'll see that the wires are crimped together.
139367
You will need to cut the wires up against the crimp so you can separate each wire.
Simply connect one wire at a time to the "incoming" wire coming from the main wire harness.
Once you find out which wire causes your fuse to blow, follow that wire and check for any exposed copper wire.
Obviously, since you had to remove the crimp, use a butt-splice connector to connect the wires to each other again.

Now yes, you can separate the wires and check continuity with a meter instead of testing each wire until one blows the fuse.
This was intended for someone with little to no electrical skills and doesn't know how to use a meter.

Hope this helps!

Jon I just followed your guide and I disconnected the main rear connector and put a new fuse in and the fuse blew. Car wasn't started, but turn the key to the acc and still blew.

So I guess my problem is not the rear wiring. Any other suggestions before I have to take it to the stealerships??

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/1299/adsdasdcc.jpg

Wow... didn't expect that!
You mentioned that you turned the key to ACC and it still blew, did you also press the brake pedal?

Yes I put the key to the ACC and I can wait forever and the fuse will not blow until I hold the brake pedal for at least 1-2 seconds. Same thing happens when the car is running. Fuse won't blow until the brake pedal is depressed for about 1-2seconds, than lights(abs/tsc) go on meaning fuse blew.

I think one of my ABS speed sensors is broken or damaged. im going to take it to my friend he's a mechanic and going to check the sensors.

But thank you for the guide Jon, it was a very nice write up.

the fuse is going to blow when the key is put in the ACC position - without even starting the car or stepping on the brake pedal.

You should look closer at the diagram....
The ACC (fuse, switch, or relay) and the STOP fuse is not on the same circuit.
You do not need to have the key on ACC to complete this particular circuit.
Go out to your car and press on the brake pedal without inserting your key.
I bet the lights turn on ;)

This is why I questioned if the fuse blows when you turn to ACC or did it just blow when you inserted the new fuse.

You should look closer at the diagram....
The ACC (fuse, switch, or relay) and the STOP fuse is not on the same circuit.
You do not need to have the key on ACC to complete this particular circuit.
Go out to your car and press on the brake pedal without inserting your key.
I bet the lights turn on ;)

This is why I questioned if the fuse blows when you turn to ACC or did it just blow when you inserted the new fuse.

Lights don't turn on with no key in ignition/key in acc/car running.

Lights don't turn on with no key in ignition/key in acc/car running.
Lights will come on without the key in (I just ran out to my car to verify).
So the fuse probably just blew again.
Another quick thing to eliminate would be the switch itself (on the brake pedal).
There are 4 wires running into the switch.
I took my switch apart before (which is a PITA) and there were two springs inside.
If one of them came loose and is shorting across the terminals inside, that could do it.
If you have local friend that has an 8, try swapping with his switch.
Its at least something easy to eliminate.
BTW... the switch turns clock-wise to release from the bracket.

Lights will come on without the key in (I just ran out to my car to verify).
So the fuse probably just blew again.
Another quick thing to eliminate would be the switch itself (on the brake pedal).
There are 4 wires running into the switch.
I took my switch apart before (which is a PITA) and there were two springs inside.
If one of them came loose and is shorting across the terminals inside, that could do it.
If you have local friend that has an 8, try swapping with his switch.
Its at least something easy to eliminate.
BTW... the switch turns clock-wise to release from the bracket.

Will try this deff.

Right now I just checked if the fuse was blowing from my 2 front speed sensors. Mikko said his problem was the left front speed sensor.

So I jacked up the front end, removed both speed sensors. Turn on the key first with NO fuse and I noticed the ABS/TSC lights were automatically on.

So I turned off the car, put a new 15A fuse in, put the key into ACC, held the brake for maybe 1 second and boom goes the fuse.

Meaning the problem cannot be my 2 front speed sensors. Problem is elsewhere.

Should I check the Rear speed sensors aswell?

Meaning the problem cannot be my 2 front speed sensors. Problem is elsewhere.
Should I check the Rear speed sensors aswell?

I don't see how the speed sensors can blow that fuse since they wire into the DSC Control Module.
139394

You should look closer at the diagram....
......

Thanks! :uh: I know that the stop light should always come on when you step on the brake, regardless of whether the key is in or not. Don't know what I was thinking. I deleted my post since it was plain wrong :lol:.

^That's OK... I have my moments too ;)

I don't see how the speed sensors can blow that fuse since they wire into the DSC Control Module.
139394

DSC is connected to abs-system and brake fluid pressure sensor is part of abs system and speed sensor is connected to it.

Anyway... when i disconnect the abs sensor from the front left wheel hub, -> the fuse does't blow, and when i connect it back to the wheel hub -> the fuse burns at the moment i put ACC on.

I may be wrong, i hope not. We'll see it tomorrow when i get the car back from the service.

DSC is connected to abs-system and brake fluid pressure sensor is part of abs system and speed sensor is connected to it.

I understand that.
Looking at the electrical diagram I posted above, how does the STOP fuse blow with the speed sensor instead of the DSC fuses that sends electricity to the DSC module?
I'm not attacking what you're saying, I just wouldn't expect the speed sensors to blow the STOP fuse.

I got my problem fixed.. Gave the car to my buddy, he took it over night look at the wiring all over the car and noticed the wires were melting all over the places which was causing a shortage. Fixed the prob and no more lights for me =) ty everyone for trying to help me troubleshoot.

Where did he find the wires melted?
Glad you got it working!

Some wires were melted under the steering wheel, some more under the plastic along the side, and he said some more were melted in the tail lights where the two wires are crimped together.

I understand that.
Looking at the electrical diagram I posted above, how does the STOP fuse blow with the speed sensor instead of the DSC fuses that sends electricity to the DSC module?
I'm not attacking what you're saying, I just wouldn't expect the speed sensors to blow the STOP fuse.

Got my car back from the service and its working fine. Rust and corrosion had ruined the wheel hub. The sensor within the hub was in "short-circuit?" if that is the correct term, sorry my bad english :) . The corrosion had also ruined the brake pads. The inner pads were so rusted that they werent even moving. Only outer pads were moving.

Now i have new wheel hub, new pads, cleaned up calibers and a big smile on my face. What a relief that car is fine now!

i should use more brakes and less downshift/counter-steer/throttle driving in winter time :D

I got my problem fixed.. Gave the car to my buddy, he took it over night look at the wiring all over the car and noticed the wires were melting all over the places which was causing a shortage. Fixed the prob and no more lights for me =) ty everyone for trying to help me troubleshoot.

Wow I wonder what caused this initially, do you have any aftermarket alarm system or stereo components? Did the previous owner have an aftermarket alarm system or stereo components removed before selling? I wonder if this will start happening to multiple 8s in the near future. Unless you got a lemon and wires were messed up from the factory? Well at any rate thanks for the closure I was watching this thread hoping the answer would be revealed.

Wow I wonder what caused this initially, do you have any aftermarket alarm system or stereo components? Did the previous owner have an aftermarket alarm system or stereo components removed before selling? I wonder if this will start happening to multiple 8s in the near future. Unless you got a lemon and wires were messed up from the factory? Well at any rate thanks for the closure I was watching this thread hoping the answer would be revealed.

I don't think the previous owner had alarm system, but I would never know. I bought the car Sep of 07 with about 38K miles...car was very smooth.

Only things Ive done are hardwired escort but I removed it along time ago, some LEDS in headlights/corners. Other than that no more electrical.

Well right now the car is running nice.

But I went through some nice troubleshooting trying to find it, removing the main rear light harness and narrowing it down. Than check the brake switch with a friends 8. The speed sensors...etc.

This just happened to me. Wiring going to trunk was damaged/chaffed. Fixed wiring and replaced stop fuse then canceled service apt.

After a 1000 $ damage accident due to abs brake disabled, i decided to repair that stop fuse :Eyecrazy:

After following this thread i have found out the problem was with the trunk lid stop light wires, they had broken inside the plastic protector, near the trunk hinge, probably after four years of trunk openeing/closing.

Thanks for the amazing tips from rx8club

Also....
Yest I put in a 25A fuse for the stop fuse...Lights didnt go off but when I started driving on the highway my brakes were stopping the car its self....it felt as if I was towing something and the car was just gonna stop. So I pulled over took out the fuse and car drove fine but the lights were on.

Help!

No wonder you had melted wires everywhere, the 25A fuse is way too heavy for stop lights and the wiring used...I think a 15A is normal for stop lights.

had same problem with stop/brake light fuse blowing and ABS light on.

Traced problem to broken and shorted wires in wiring to third (middle) brake light. Problem was in the corrugated plastic sleeve in outside wiring under trunk lid. wires were broken inside.

Roger

This is a great thread! I have been plagued with this 15A Stop light fuse blowing out for a long time. At first it was because of water in the driver's side tail lights. That has been fixed 8 months ago and I thought that's the end of that saga.

Early this week, the fuse blows again immediately when I step on the brake pedal. Two things changed a day before this: 1) I washed the car; 2) I swapped to winter wheels and I bumped one wheel against the brake disc assembly while mounting it.

Anyway, disconnecting the 3rd brake light harness seems to have prevented the blown fuse. The obvious defect I can see is the corrugated sleeve Roger mentioned has been punctured at two different spots.

For those who had the same problem (especially Roger), how do you verify for sure the cabling before replacing it? My car is out of warranty. I'd need to order the part and replace it myself but I want to be sure. If you replaced it yourself, do you by any chance have the instructions? I can't figure out at this time how to remove that exposed section (the part with all that sheathing). I'm also not sure how to remove that trunk lid 'inside handle' so that I can remove that piece of felt-cover to gain access to the 3rd brake light from the inside.

Note to self: don't try to clear the ice with a scraper in that area in the future.

Thanks in advance.

This is a great thread! I have been plagued with this 15A Stop light fuse blowing out for a long time. At first it was because of water in the driver's side tail lights. That has been fixed 8 months ago and I thought that's the end of that saga.

Early this week, the fuse blows again immediately when I step on the brake pedal. Two things changed a day before this: 1) I washed the car; 2) I swapped to winter wheels and I bumped one wheel against the brake disc assembly while mounting it.

Anyway, disconnecting the 3rd brake light harness seems to have prevented the blown fuse. The obvious defect I can see is the corrugated sleeve Roger mentioned has been punctured at two different spots.

For those who had the same problem (especially Roger), how do you verify for sure the cabling before replacing it? My car is out of warranty. I'd need to order the part and replace it myself but I want to be sure. If you replaced it yourself, do you by any chance have the instructions? I can't figure out at this time how to remove that exposed section (the part with all that sheathing). I'm also not sure how to remove that trunk lid 'inside handle' so that I can remove that piece of felt-cover to gain access to the 3rd brake light from the inside.

Note to self: don't try to clear the ice with a scraper in that area in the future.

Thanks in advance.

I had a very similar problem - I bought and replaced my 3rd brake light wire to solve the problem (spliced wires in the middle of the sheathing came loose). If disconnecting the 3rd brake light harness solves the problem it is either the bulb, socket or wire. My bet is the wire looking at the pics (Water from washing your car got on the exposed wire and shorted it?) and others with similar problems. The wire is about $45 and takes about 20 minutes to replace yourself. The 3rd brake light wire you buy includes the sheathing and all of the clips - very straight forward install once you get the part in your hand (just be sure the wire is not twisted and stressed when you clip it into place). To remove the "trunk lid handle", pull it towards your face with the trunk open and pry up the side facing the front of the car with a screw driver. The handle just has ridged tab holding it in place - can't break the tab but if it gets worn the handle won't stay in the trunk (I had to replace mine).

thanks to the last set of replies i was able to solve this issue that happend a couple of days a go

disconnected the harness replaced the fuse and found out the stop light bulb is not a 7443 bulb

new harness is on order and should be arriving soon hopefully

mazda made a huge screw up with the trunk wire and is now on its 3rd revised part

the original part has a rubber moulding but not much to protect the wire during movement except some flappy tab, also the wiring used is a harder compound mostly found with products not designed for flexability

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc150/ihaspistons/rx8crap/SANY0585.jpg


the new part has a molex plastic connector with rubber surrounding, notice how the wire is taped against the rubber tab and a big plus is a softer flexible rubber compound surrounded wire designed for lots of flex although this type of compound may dry out over time its still a lot better than the first generation trunk wire.

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc150/ihaspistons/rx8crap/SANY0588.jpg




the new part number: the older part was a F151-67-06YA the new one being a letter C instead of A
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc150/ihaspistons/rx8crap/SANY0590.jpg

This is a great thread. With 160k+ miles, it seems usually I find a lot of these issues before anyone else. In this case I was glad this thread was here. I must not use my trunk as often as others.

A few things I learned that might help others in addition to the rest of what has been written here...

First my symptoms: Started my car with the clutch and break both depressed. Felt a slight ABS pulse/kick in the brake pedal and shortly after both my Traction control lights came on (DSC and the squiggly tire tracks), my ABS light did not come on.

Next I turned the car off and back on without touching the brake pedal. This resulted in no warning lights and no ABS clunk that I could hear or feel (of course my foot was not on the brake). I than started to drive and found that if I lightly touched the brakes, nothing unusual occurred, but if I press them harder both lights came on and would not clear until I restarted my car without using the brake.

What I discovered after some investigation was that my "Stop Fuse" located in the engine bay fuse box had blown. Replacing the fuse only led to another blown fuse (at least initially).

So why were the traction control lights coming on and why only when I press the brake more than lightly? It turns out that all of the traction control systems are fed a 12V signal when the brake pedal is pressed. However, with the blown fuse, they were not receiving this 12V signal when I press on the brake pedal. It turns out that these systems also monitor things like the pressure within the hydraulic brake system. If I pressed lightly on the brakes I got a small amount of hydraulic pressure and light braking, however not enough pressure to concern the Traction control systems. With greater braking force, and greater hydraulic pressure, the traction control system suddenly got concerned that it was measuring high hydraulic pressure but it was not receiving a signal that the brake pedal was engaged. This intern throws the two warning lights everyone has seen. And this explains why some times they come on when you first start the car (with your foot on the brake) and why other times they don't come on till later (no foot on the brake and no lights till you start to stop later on).

How did I quickly jump to the conclusion that this was a brake light issue and not something with the traction control system? Well, when I was driving home last night after dark and when I parked in my garage, I noticed I had tail lights because my head lights where on, but no brake lights. This led me to check the fuse and it was of course blown. As has been already pointed out, the Traction control system has almost no way of blowing the "Stop Fuse". The brake system has its own circuit and it has no other systems on it (except the one 12V signal that is sent to the traction control modules).

This led to the search for what caused the fuse to go... a short somewhere? Dead bulb? Bad switch on the brake pedal? Thank you forum! I quickly tested the switch on the brake but in hindsight realized it would have been easier to start with the tail lights.

If you remove the trunk insulation on the driver’s side you will actually discover that there is a single large connector near the back strut tower. This will disconnect the entire rear wiring harness. Once that was done, I replaced the fuse and tried pressing the brake pedal (there is no need to start the car or even put the car in the Accessory position as the brake circuit does not interact with the ignition switch in anyway... it is always on... really it is a very simple isolated circuit). After playing with the brake pedal I was now unable to blow the fuse! Problem is clearly in the trunk.

Next I disconnected my rear left and right lights as well as the center light harness from where it connects next to the left tail light. I than reconnected the rear harness and tested the brakes... still no blown fuse. It is either one of the side tail lights (both had a history of filling with enough water to support a small gold fish) or the center light/harness.

I pulled out a multi-meter and tested the center harness to see if it was grounding to the body in anyway... I could not seem to find any issues with it, so I checked the two side lights. Both had a strong ground on one side (as expected) and a high resistance ground on the other! This it turns out, appears to be normal. I'm assuming it is related to power filter that actually sits between the brake switch and the rest of the braking system. Yet it caused me to spend a lot of time searching for a possible cause here. Finding no issues with the two side lights and surprisingly no corrosion I placed the side bulbs back in and tested the brakes. They worked and no blown fuse! It must be the center tail light... so I tested it again. Nothing was grounding out.

Then I tested the continuity of rear harness itself to see if it was intact and discovered it was completely open! No short... the harness was actually completely open. After removing the harness I discovered that one of the wires was down to a single strand and the other was completely broken... guess just opening and closing my trunk trying to find my short had caused the remaining strands of wire to completely give out. I repaired the harness and all is now good. (Need to go buy some more fuses though… currently using the one to horn…).

For anyone who thinks maybe they should be troubleshooting their sensors... please first check for a blown Stop fuse. If you find the fuse is blown... stop worrying about your sensors and start with the main harness disconnect in the trunk. This will help you quickly isolate the problem to the front/back of the car. And if you luck is like most of us... it will end up being your center brake light harness. :)

Everything's pretty solved here I guess but just saying that I've just had the same problem.

STOP fuse kept frying, got tired of it, removed and inspected the bulbs/sockets and inspected the wiring I could reach, turns out the third light wires were exposed and touching where they bend just before entering the trunk cover.

Does anybody know if you can buy this F151-67-06YC spare harness from online somewhere? I am located in Finland and the local Stealership wants 100 euros ($140) for it. :icon_tdow

Yes here...
http://www.trademotion.com/partlocator/index.cfm?action=searchCatalogOEM&siteid=214264

Set up your account.

Tell Jason that I told you to contact him, he will look after you.

Thanks for the tip, I checked that site. I won't be going thru with it there, though... The price of $38 isn't TOO bad, but they charge so much for shipping that it ends up costing me over $100 in the end anyways...

Any more suggestions anybody? I noticed earlier in this thread a price tag of $25. If I'd get something near that plus reasonable shipping costs, I'd be extatic.:kiss:

As I said, email Him, and discuss shipping, he should do a better price.

Thanks for the tip, I checked that site. I won't be going thru with it there, though... The price of $38 isn't TOO bad, but they charge so much for shipping that it ends up costing me over $100 in the end anyways...

Any more suggestions anybody? I noticed earlier in this thread a price tag of $25. If I'd get something near that plus reasonable shipping costs, I'd be extatic.:kiss:

Depending on exact location Shipping cost is 45.00 - 60.00USD via DHL...from Montgomery's.

Yeah, mentioning your name to Him didn't change anything. $38 for the part, $40 for shipping. Ofcourse I'd have to pay for taxes at the customs too when the parts arrive. In the end it sums up to about $100 at my end, which is cheaper than what I was asked at the Stealership, but still not worth it.
Thanks for trying, though. I appreciate it. :)

Yeah, mentioning your name to Him didn't change anything. $38 for the part, $40 for shipping. Ofcourse I'd have to pay for taxes at the customs too when the parts arrive. In the end it sums up to about $100 at my end, which is cheaper than what I was asked at the Stealership, but still not worth it.
Thanks for trying, though. I appreciate it. :)

What did you expect..FREE shipping to your Country??..
It is a VERY good price..

Bloody Noobs ;)

I expected a piece of wiring to end up costing less.
I am sure it is. As an entrepreneur myself, I understand how business works, you cannot be shorting yourself every time somebody says they know somebody you do too.

Bloody Insecure Forum Warriors ;)

If you think ANY Retailer of ANY product actually has control over their Cost price of Buying, Shipping ANY goods then your an Idiot.''

THEY ARE NOT THE MAKERS OF THE GOODS THEY SELL YOU MORON!

Do you think the RETAILER makes the 'Piece of Wire'..??

Piss OFF you Euro Looney..entrepreneur..My ASS, a Bloody idiot..

Now that shows exactly how much you know about business.
Way to represent Australia and the company you linked to. :rolleyes:

Thanks to everyone here for doing all the legworks. I unplugged the harness for the center tail lamp and no more blown fuse. It's a 2004 with 60k miles.

There is nothing that special about the wiring harness, just a wire with a connector at each end. I simply took a piece of vacuum cleaner power cord (designed to handle constantly being flexed and abused) and used it. I cut each end of the bad wire off leaving a few inches of wire on the connectors from each end and then soldered the connectors to the vacuum cleaner power cord section (and of course heat shrink rapped each wire and added a little electric tape around it for good measure. It worked perfectly and has been reliable so far. I even left the power cords outer rubber insulation in place and did not put the silly flexible accordian piece of plastic on that runs between the trunk and the trunk lid at the hinge. Simply wire tied the power cord with insulation to the same places. You would think it was stock.

Fix... one piece of an $8 dollar replacement vacuum cleaner power cord... 10 minutes of soldering a few cents worth of shrink tubing and tape. If you removed the old zip tie fastners carefully, they should be re-usable as well.

If for some reason my fuse blows... first thing I'll check is the 3rd light, but considering the abuse a vacuum cleaner power cord takes, especially when it is being used or is wrapped up inside the vacuum, I'm pretty sure it will not be the 3rd light next time!

I just picked up my 8 on Thursday, and drove it home with no problem. Friday, I was taking it to the car wash, and my ABS/traction control light were on after I applied the brakes after starting. Assuming it was driver error as I never drove a manual before, I ignored it until some guy on the road told me my brake lights were out. Then when on the highway, cruise control would light up that it was truned on, but green light saying it was set

Checked fuse, it was blown, replaced fuse, blew it immediately. Read the forum, found this thread, and after checking connections, it ended up being a little spot on the loom nearest to the 3rd brake light that was worn and bare wires grounding out on the trunk. Unclipped the harness, bought some more fuses to check because I ran out of 15amp fuses popping them diagnosing, and now I have at least 2 brake lights and cruise that works.

So, uh, yeah, Hi from WI

Please Help...
I have MAzda rx8 2004 Manual 231hrs... I bought 6 months ago, everything was just fine and then few days ago without any reason inside the wires that connect accelerator pedal and brake switch pedal start burning in 2 min i could not accelerate i stop and turn off the battery cable....and i safe my car of burning in fire...
What i realized on the part where the burning start there is one plastic box kind of noise filter and 4 wires colors G/R, G/B, Y/R, W/G...
Can any one help me with this issue , wiring diagram or please picture of the installation from accelerator pedal to the brake pedal so i can see if owner before me install something that cause this problem?!
I saw here issue very similar to my issue, and i remember i change more then 6 fuses because after pressing brake sometimes lights of dsc/abs came On. I had broken wheel hub on right front wheel and i replace it i change fuse also and after that everything was just perfect then this melting wires and burning start after 300km driving...
To Everybody who want's to help me sorry for my English.
I can send also pictures i took if any one knows how to help me.
Thank's in Advance.