i have never seen over 10psi? most of the time i have a straight 9--from 3K up( I dont full throttle until AT LEAST 3K)
Does that mean I have belt slippage? Would I not hear it and wouldnt the engine be erratic?
Maybe my gauge? Mechanical boost/vacum with hook up at the lim.
I am moving good air per maf.
Phil how is your idler pulley done?
????
OD

i have never seen over 10psi? most of the time i have a straight 9--from 3K up( I dont full throttle until AT LEAST 3K)
Does that mean I have belt slippage? Would I not hear it and wouldnt the engine be erratic?
Maybe my gauge? Mechanical boost/vacum with hook up at the lim.
I am moving good air per maf.
Phil how is your idler pulley done?
????
OD
Well the idler pulley seems OK but when we get the main pulley done I don't know. Jeff was telling me my air flow was good but..............I never heard the belt to pulley but watching the dyno it was obvious something was wrong. I need to let MM explain it as i was so dissapointed that I may have undersood something wrong but I was flat told that it was slippage by the belt.

Yeah, your belt started slipping almost immediately (around 4500 RPM, IIRC), but was screeching like a banshee by 6200 RPM.
You could see on the dyno plot that the boost was surging/oscillating with increasing amplitude as the RPMs went up.
By the time you hit 6000, your manifold pressure was swinging back and forth between 6 PSI and 28 PSI!
However, your airflow was fairly consistent with your actual torque curve.

Yeah, your belt started slipping almost immediately (around 4500 RPM, IIRC), but was screeching like a banshee by 6200 RPM.
You could see on the dyno plot that the boost was surging/oscillating with increasing amplitude as the RPMs went up.
By the time you hit 6000, your manifold pressure was swinging back and forth between 6 PSI and 28 PSI!
However, your airflow was fairly consistent with your actual torque curve.

Interesting, did the dyno logs show this pressure fluctuation?

6000 RPM on a 6 port with the large pulley is right at 13 to 14 PSI, I suppose the lower volume of the 4 port runners could account for the increase to 28 PSI.
Neither the 6 rib belt, nor the blower pressure design is intended for 28 PSI, but still awesome boost from the Lysholm.

:mdrmed:

Update:

The spacer block between the S/C and the S/C pulley may have been installed backwards, if the top blower pulley was ever removed; it is only designed for one orientation to the blower pulley.
The small aluminium spacer should be checked for weird wear, or chatter marks, also torque the S/C pulley bolt down if the pulley slips on the S/C input shaft.

I thought you guys were all converting to ribbed for greater pleasure ?

ha ha--need more than 6 then:)

MM/Phil ---Dang! A/f's where also affected during the boost fluctuation?
Good tune must have saved him or at least helped.

Who is getting 12-14 psi boost with this system? Like I said I have never seen over 10 and 99% of the time I am at 9.

Root for me --I am headed toward Roebling Road raceway to drive 8 sessions tomorrow with Seat Time. Its my favorite track. Its a Good Friday:)

ha, just did an airfield autoX day again. I love my car soooo much. It rained and was slippy, and I was power sliding out of corners half way up the straights to the next one! I even did a bit of involuntary rally cross (whoops!) but thankfully didnt get stuck int he mud.....

One cone was great and i was turning into it well before I even got there and doing hero drift all the way around (about 220 degrees or so!) Sweeeeeeet!

The charger gives so much throttle controllability its fantastic....

I was power sliding out of corners half way up the straights to the next one!...One cone was great and i was turning into it well before I even got there and doing hero drift all the way around

I bet your times were awesome. lol :jerkit:

jeez was the emoticon appropriate or necassary??
I wasn't trying for times at all...
I was having fun... if that makes me a w@nkler then perhaps you should check your priorities?

I was having fun... if that makes me a w@nkler then perhaps you should check your priorities?

My priorities are to net good times when I'm at a competitive event.
When I see other guys out goofing off while I have to stand out there in the rain working, I think :jerkit:.

So, yeah. You're a "w@nkler". lol

If you like drifting like that --you should try modifing the motor mounts --it does give you more on an "instant/solid" throttle response!
Just did a track day at Roebling Road this past Saturday. Used a tank and 1/2 of gas!
My 09 pump is still kicking ass (this track is the one that is notorious for starvation) and i was able to run until 3 dashs from empty.
Modified S 2000's are fast and smooth I can tell you that, but watch their tails--they will kick out at times. These one's did not brake as good as the 8's.
Temps were great and car ran very well---no issues. I only went above 7K rpm's but twice and those times i went to 7.5---top speed attained was 135 (i could have went a little faster--didnt want to--oem safety gear and I had some really good track times. Guess i was driving 8/10? Certain sections 9/10. Testing stuff.
I will return 1st part of May!
Hope a vid soon.
OD

MM....but it wasn't a competitive event, it was a UK RX8 club event where everyone had fun.

When I did the same course "seriously" on an open day for all cars, I came second, behind a full sprint prepared Elise who knew the course and had track slicks etc. I beat a few 911s, a TVR Tuscan, and a bunch of other stuff.
Happy now, or still randomly offensive?

PS OD sounds like fun at Roebling

MM....but it wasn't a competitive event, it was a UK RX8 club event where everyone had fun.

When I did the same course "seriously" on an open day for all cars, I came second, behind a full sprint prepared Elise who knew the course and had track slicks etc. I beat a few 911s, a TVR Tuscan, and a bunch of other stuff.
Happy now, or still randomly offensive?

PS OD sounds like fun at Roebling

Nice man! Those Elises are quick little cars. We have a few stock ones that show up at events here in FL, and they're usually some of the fastest overall.

Have any videos of your autocross laps?

no not that day, as it was just a few of us. I took a vidcam this time, but stupid camera went wrong.... 8(

Has anyone had their coolant temp sensor go tits up, and if so, what problems did you notice.

If you've never had this problem, what would you expect to see in a car that has a bad coolant temp sensor in terms of starting and fuel mixture.

Has anyone had their coolant temp sensor go tits up, and if so, what problems did you notice.

If you've never had this problem, what would you expect to see in a car that has a bad coolant temp sensor in terms of starting and fuel mixture.

I missed plugging mine in after an engine rebuild once .
Engine would not start . Plugged it back in - engine started .

Weird

If you like drifting like that --you should try modifing the motor mounts --it does give you more on an "instant/solid" throttle response!
Just did a track day at Roebling Road this past Saturday. Used a tank and 1/2 of gas!
My 09 pump is still kicking ass (this track is the one that is notorious for starvation) and i was able to run until 3 dashs from empty.
Modified S 2000's are fast and smooth I can tell you that, but watch their tails--they will kick out at times. These one's did not brake as good as the 8's.
Temps were great and car ran very well---no issues. I only went above 7K rpm's but twice and those times i went to 7.5---top speed attained was 135 (i could have went a little faster--didnt want to--oem safety gear and I had some really good track times. Guess i was driving 8/10? Certain sections 9/10. Testing stuff.
I will return 1st part of May!
Hope a vid soon.
OD

135?

sounds like you were 7/10s on the straight! and i bet real real fast everywere else, just saying. ;)

wait, i have to figure out the 09 tranny + you sc.. dude.. i hope you have a beers or two in may. got lots of questions for you..

beers :beer:

Has anyone had their coolant temp sensor go tits up, and if so, what problems did you notice.

If you've never had this problem, what would you expect to see in a car that has a bad coolant temp sensor in terms of starting and fuel mixture.


It will run in open loop...really rich

Or go into limp mode and not really run at all :)

Should start fairly normal..it's open loop anyway...but it could flood easier..and likely not run well after a few minutes of idle

I missed plugging mine in after an engine rebuild once .
Engine would not start . Plugged it back in - engine started .

Weird

Thanks B. Sounds very, very familiar.


It will run in open loop...really rich

Or go into limp mode and not really run at all

Should start fairly normal..it's open loop anyway...but it could flood easier..and likely not run well after a few minutes of idle

Rich enough to make you think there was a manifold leak when you were stopped at a light?

...still randomly offensive?

Random? No. Offensive? Probably.


Rich enough to make you think there was a manifold leak when you were stopped at a light?

A vacuum leak makes it run lean (and add a bunch of positive fuel trim).

Random? No. Offensive? Probably.



A vacuum leak makes it run lean (and add a bunch of positive fuel trim).

Exhaust manifold leak, not intake.

Exhaust manifold leak, not intake.

Oh. Sorry.

Exhaust leaks only affect the trim if they are before the O2 sensor and fairly major.
If its not loud, it probably isn't doing much to your closed-loop operation.
It won't affect open loop at all.

Oh. Sorry.

Exhaust leaks only affect the trim if they are before the O2 sensor and fairly major.
If its not loud, it probably isn't doing much to your closed-loop operation.
It won't affect open loop at all.

Thanks. I don't have an exhaust leak, it just smells like it. When the car is stopped at a light even with the windows up, cabin fills with fumes. I had the manifold and gaskets replaced along the entire exhaust, still had the stink. Now the car won't start and is pumping more fuel than the motor can handle. I've been deflooding it all winter but no luck. Starts, tries to catch, then dies.

Before I pull it down the street I'm going to replace the coolant temp sensor; it may have been crapped out all along. Any other ideas at this point are more than welcome.

stuck injectors?

Good luck with this dude, i know its a pita.

Well after some thought i have decided to finish my system out in a wrinkle paint finish---stay tuned.
OD

heres a little vid from RR--i was playing around. the S2 was tracked prepped and the driver was good.
if i stay in 5th down the straight longer then that is a sign that i was pushing a little harder. I was experimenting with lines and gears a lot.
sorry the mic is the pits at speed
the long left handed turn is a 105-110 mph turn--my favorite off all turns!
http://www.vholdr.com/node/80364
OD

stuck injectors?

OD

Funny you should mention that. I have injectors as a possible problem but have no clue how to test them. I didn't even know they could 'stick'. More homework.

heres a little vid from RR--i was playing around. the S2 was tracked prepped and the driver was good.
if i stay in 5th down the straight longer then that is a sign that i was pushing a little harder. I was experimenting with lines and gears a lot.
sorry the mic is the pits at speed
the long left handed turn is a 105-110 mph turn--my favorite off all turns!
http://www.vholdr.com/node/80364
OD

wow,

great video denny..

photos hard, video easy? siilly.. how track prepped was the s2k?

what event was this?

great job!!!!

beers :beer:

heres a little vid from RR--i was playing around. the S2 was tracked prepped and the driver was good.
if i stay in 5th down the straight longer then that is a sign that i was pushing a little harder. I was experimenting with lines and gears a lot.
sorry the mic is the pits at speed
the long left handed turn is a 105-110 mph turn--my favorite off all turns!
http://www.vholdr.com/node/80364
OD

do you have any pictures of how you have your camcorder mounted?
Great video btw!

do you have any pictures of how you have your camcorder mounted?
Great video btw!

Yeah !

If you can't do pictures of your engine bay, just do a video :naughty:

Nice run anyway and WTF is that S2K :SHOCKED:

Hey Scott ---this was a Seat time event on a Saturday thingy.
The S2-- was pretty well set up --had a cage--real track seats, tuning, headers, gearing --running on new R888's(already heat cycled)---it was pretty quick.
You can see for just this one video--that I could gain on him at will in some places and it others it was dang hard too. Really good driver. He did spin once. He was pushing it some.
He had some good lines and i enjoyed following and watching how he was doing some things--especially 1 and 5 turns. Those are not race lines as they do open it up for an inside pass but for a TT line they are just a little bit faster.

I am using the Contour CamHD sent on a 720P--great little camera. It has a 135 degree lenses. Cars are a little closer than they seem on the vid. I have it mounted on the rear console. Just ran a straight aluminum rod from the truck and a suction cup to the console.
Worked pretty good. I HAVE to do something with the mic though.

I can shoot an engine bay vid if yall want it?
OD

That would be nice, And please take your time to capture every details...

I HAVE to do something with the mic though.

OD

Damn right OD!!! I really want to watch but the audio kills me.

Can you isolate the mike with a suspension arm, or something, so there is nothing transmitting vibrations to it?

ok there are too many posts to go through to get the answer to this question....Of all of you that put in the supercharger, is it a better investment then a turbo charger? To me it makes more sense but just want to get others input....Right now I have a 2010 R3 and dont really want the turbo.....I have put in an exhaust, for now the only other things I want to do are an intake and maybe adding a header to my exhaust....Are there any other ideas as far as hp/cash thats worth the spend? I was looking at a mod on Pettit thats the PCM-AN with an efi dude and was wondering if that is a good upgrade for the money?

ok there are too many posts to go through to get the answer to this question....Of all of you that put in the supercharger, is it a better investment then a turbo charger? To me it makes more sense but just want to get others input....Right now I have a 2010 R3 and dont really want the turbo.....I have put in an exhaust, for now the only other things I want to do are an intake and maybe adding a header to my exhaust....Are there any other ideas as far as hp/cash thats worth the spend? I was looking at a mod on Pettit thats the PCM-AN with an efi dude and was wondering if that is a good upgrade for the money?

to answer the only question that matters. dont think there are any tuning options for the 2010 ecu..

beers :beer:

Correct Sir--- to the best of my knowledge?
Scott --coming to RR I hope? 15 days away dude!!

RX7GUY --dont waste time or money with headers and intake if it is power you seek.
Very low return for the buck imho. Fustrating I know.
SC versus Turbo? Which is best? Well only you can make that decision.
I will offer up some personal opinions.
1- whatever kit you decide on--get one from a company that has been and will continue to be in business for a while. Its nice to have that backup for continued knowledge and support.
2- only get a kit that you feel comfortable with and basically understand. Putting FI on the 8 will make it even more of a hands on car. FI 8's done properly are very realiable and a good DD.
3- no kit is COMPLETE-- you will need supporting mods for cooling, possible ignition, possible fuel pump if you fi a pre 09 car etc.
hope that little bit helps.
OD

anyone know if aftermarket water tempt gauge can be spliced into the factory sensor?
OF

If I can get my master mechanic to get busy, I am hoping to have a 12psi pulley that will not slip.................My current large pulley needs help - can't keep it from slipping.

The design is done it just needs some machining and final fitting.......After this last dyno meet I think we are both motivated to complete it.

Tis true, Master, and I have issued calls which were not returned. As such, I will attempt contact via PM here and see if any responses are given. If not, Plan B will be implemented.

the saga continues...

After installing a used pump from Juan I was able to get the car running. After about 15 minutes of mild running and driving to a local gas station, it died while idling. I have since deflooded the motor, checked the pump fuse, installed new spark plugs, and ensured I have a fully charged battery.

When I tried to crank it again there was no joy. I noticed that I didn't hear the fuel pump trying to prime so I removed the fuel line and lo and behold, the pump was not priming.

Does anyone know of a reason why a pump with 30k miles on it would fail? What should I do to determine if the problem is somewhere in the wiring?

Any help is greatly appreciated. I have to do this myself as there are no known/reliable mechanics within 300 miles of my location.

the saga continues...

After installing a used pump from Juan I was able to get the car running. After about 15 minutes of mild running and driving to a local gas station, it died while idling. I have since deflooded the motor, checked the pump fuse, installed new spark plugs, and ensured I have a fully charged battery.

When I tried to crank it again there was no joy. I noticed that I didn't hear the fuel pump trying to prime so I removed the fuel line and lo and behold, the pump was not priming.

Does anyone know of a reason why a pump with 30k miles on it would fail? What should I do to determine if the problem is somewhere in the wiring?

Any help is greatly appreciated. I have to do this myself as there are no known/reliable mechanics within 300 miles of my location.

test all your ecu related fuses in the fuse box in the engine compartment. had the exact same thing happen to me at roebling road. also check you wiring to you rear o2 sensor..

send me an email this weekend and i can expound on this.. have a few different similar things in common with your comments.. :)

beers :beer:

Correct Sir--- to the best of my knowledge?
Scott --coming to RR I hope? 15 days away dude!!


OD

yep!

hope you are going to have a beer again this time. :)

btw, did sebring last sunday! ;) zesty! 1hr 50 min to fuel cut at the yellow light..

session 1 dry, 2 damp, 3 drying line but wet, 4 dry going to very wet..

big, big fun..

beers :beer:

That sounds like it was a blast Scott!
Expecting a big crowd at RR this year--we should have a blast as usual. Ga is really bad on speeding tickets now so be careful coming up.

Fuel Pump--- Since it was running before it quit means the pump primes. if it is not even making a sound when you turn it on (for a second or two) then it has to be electrical.
Are the plugs wet with gas?
OD

Nope. Brand new plugs, and the pump does not even try to prime as of now.

Check for power at the pump when you turn on the key.....

If no power go looking for why....

If there is...you need a new pump :)

exactly---nothing else to do--you can pull the pump to be sure nothing has come disconnected etc.

Yall hsould see what I have done to the engine bay of my car.
It looks good. Wrinkle paint anyone?
That paint is a little tricky to work with--but it turned out good. I am very pleased.
Color? Flat black ? I was tired of that. Can you say Chevolet Red? Yep. Its really more of a red/orange. I thought it would clash with my red car but damn if it didnt turn out looking good---different--but good.
Pic--well i will try---maybe a vid?
OD

I found the culprit. I just don't know how to fix it. It is the EGI/COMP1 fuse. I replaced it and the car fired right up after sitting for several months. It ran for 10 min as long as I kept it off idle with the gas pedal. As soon as I tried to let it idle on its own it died. I rechecked the fuse box and the EGI/COMP1 fuse was blown. I put a new fuse in and tried to start. Nada. I went back to the fuse box and the same fuse had blown for a third time!!

What can I do guys??

/\ have had same thing - it turned out to be the rear o2 sensor wire shorting out due to resting on the cat and melting the wires .

Is it normal for the O2 sensor wire to rest on the cat? If so, talk about a design flaw. Would I need to replace the then entire assembly, or could I just cut the wire and solder a new one in its place??

/\ have had same thing - it turned out to be the rear o2 sensor wire shorting out due to resting on the cat and melting the wires .

to funny,

morkus.

my email explains just what brettus said. it was my issue also..

how did you find that pesky fuse? ;) :lol:

beers :beer:

I am posting updates on my fuse problem here

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=167440

to funny,

morkus.

my email explains just what brettus said. it was my issue also..

how did you find that pesky fuse? ;) :lol:

beers :beer:

That ^(^&(*&*()& fuse was found thanks to your advice.

Hey guys. I have a couple questions about the kit. How is tuning done? Does the EFIDude flash new maps? If so how can I be sure they are good for my car specifically??

Finally, the kit now comes with the upgraded & safer bypass valve right? Thanks

These may be questions better answered by Pettit....The kit has changed very little since I got mine but changes have been made. My Pettit uses a Cobb AP for tuning as re-tunes and upgrades are easier to acquire and my tuner is closer than Florida. I think several changes have been made to the choice of bypass over the years. Only Pettit can tell you what is used now.

Since you live so close, if you want to see an install of one of the original Pettit units, come to the "What Happens in Vegas" meet in June. You will be joined by several other Phoenix and Arizona peeps.

Yes --EFI dude can do the flashing needed. The oridginal bypass valve was safe, it just did not contain the boost as good as the upgraded one.
To communicate with Pettit--it is best to call them. Tell them OD sent ya and they will give you $1.00 off!
Hope you join the ranks--its a good kit.
OD

Yes --EFI dude can do the flashing needed. The oridginal bypass valve was safe, it just did not contain the boost as good as the upgraded one.
To communicate with Pettit--it is best to call them. Tell them OD sent ya and they will give you $1.00 off!
Hope you join the ranks--its a good kit.
OD

Always nice to welcome a new member to this group....

Hey all --go to the Race threads---i posted a track vid from this past w/e.
OD

I found the culprit. I just don't know how to fix it. It is the EGI/COMP1 fuse. I replaced it and the car fired right up after sitting for several months. It ran for 10 min as long as I kept it off idle with the gas pedal. As soon as I tried to let it idle on its own it died. I rechecked the fuse box and the EGI/COMP1 fuse was blown. I put a new fuse in and tried to start. Nada. I went back to the fuse box and the same fuse had blown for a third time!!

What can I do guys??

Sometimes it's coz of being kept on the idle for long but if you've figured it out and can't fix it i think its better to take it for repair.

Is that you again Gil? How many names do you have?

Does anyone use the Mazsport ignition with their Pettit SC?

I know its got some issues with the Dwell needing to be adjusted.

If running an SC or turbo is it easier and safer if I just get the BHR and throw the Mazsport in the trash?

Does anyone use the Mazsport ignition with their Pettit SC?

I know its got some issues with the Dwell needing to be adjusted.

If running an SC or turbo is it easier and safer if I just get the BHR and throw the Mazsport in the trash?

I use the BHR coils.................never a problem. You can always sell the others to some unsuspecting boob - we have a lot of them out there

I use the BHR coils.................never a problem. You can always sell the others to some unsuspecting boob - we have a lot of them out there

Or, I am sure one of the Vegas kids would buy them simply because they despise BHR. :lol2:

why do you card count in Vegas or something? 8)

any upgraded ignition coil system + FI (after a certain g/sec airflow) will require a dwell time adjustment? Thats how i understand it. The mazsport kit can be ran--- i think the ignitor box at times may be a problem. I ran that system for a short time (about maybe a year?) it was OK. Replacement parts are available.
The yukon/ls/msd upgrade is an option, but the dwell will need work to get max benefits out of them. Some Pettit guys (not me) are running the msd (designed for the ls1/6 engine) without any dwell adjustment and are not having any problems. They are expensive.
I choose to stay with oem coils +hks twin power. So far so good.
OD

1) any upgraded ignition coil system + FI (after a certain g/sec airflow) will require a dwell time adjustment?
2) The mazsport kit can be ran--- i think the ignitor box at times may be a problem. I ran that system for a short time (about maybe a year?) it was OK. Replacement parts are available.
3) The yukon/ls/msd upgrade is an option, but the dwell will need work to get max benefits out of them.
4)Some Pettit guys (not me) are running the msd (designed for the ls1/6 engine) without any dwell adjustment and are not having any problems.
5) I choose to stay with oem coils +hks twin power. So far so good.
OD

1) Depends on which coils are used.
2) The Microtech Ignitor Module is well-known to have issues when used with the RX-8.
3) True, but simply setting the dwell to the best value isn't exactly "work".
4) Give it time, they will.
5) Electrically useless, based on design.

Yes --EFI dude can do the flashing needed. The oridginal bypass valve was safe, it just did not contain the boost as good as the upgraded one.
To communicate with Pettit--it is best to call them. Tell them OD sent ya and they will give you $1.00 off!
Hope you join the ranks--its a good kit.
OD

OD I have an EFI dude but I have never been able to modify any maps. How? What am I missing? Is there a manual out there. :confused: I bought it used in Dec and have just been learning the data that is collected.

Thanks for any feedback

Zoom-I-Do

Hey Ray, glad you came in. can you clarify some things for me then?
1- what upgraded ignition coils do not require a dwell time adjustment after threshold g/secs have been reached?
2- adjusting dwell is not a lot of work--granted. But 1st you have to have something that will let you do it!--like a Cobb?
3-- I think Juan has been running those msd coils for 2 years now?

4- You know I have looked and looked for hard evidence as to the effectivness of the Twin Power and i cant find any. No oscilliscope readings etc. There are hundreds of testomonials with dyno results etc but so many varables could be present I cant count that. Do you have anything showing why it will not work? I would love to see it--honestly.

With the small pulley on the Pettit kit it is fine to run the oem coils--just narrow the sparkplug gap a little and you are good to go.

The EFI dude will not let the individual change anything---but you can send your maps to Pettit (after arranging ) and they can custom tune per flash sent to your efi dude.

Hey Ray, glad you came in. can you clarify some things for me then?
1- what upgraded ignition coils do not require a dwell time adjustment after threshold g/secs have been reached?
2- adjusting dwell is not a lot of work--granted. But 1st you have to have something that will let you do it!--like a Cobb?
3-- I think Juan has been running those msd coils for 2 years now?

4- You know I have looked and looked for hard evidence as to the effectivness of the Twin Power and i cant find any. No oscilliscope readings etc. There are hundreds of testomonials with dyno results etc but so many varables could be present I cant count that. Do you have anything showing why it will not work? I would love to see it--honestly.

Being "glad" I posted and simply tolerating my presence are two different things. ;)

1) You said "all upgraded coil systems" required dwell adjustments. My point was that you have not tried all the available coils or systems so that matter is, as of yet, inconclusive.

2) Yes, one needs some sort of reflash device if they wish to adjust their coil dwell time settings. A real sweat-breaker there.

3) One set of MSD coils being used by one person, who likely does not drive his car daily, does not trump the many sets seen firsthand to have fail by the guys at UMS Tuning in Phoenix. Look them up sometime by flipping open just about any issue of Modified Magazine as they are one of the few shops who actually deserve the coverage they get.

4) I will leave this part for you to try and do your own homework. Suffice it to say that the manner in which the HKS Twin Power DLI unit you are probably using has very little to no effect on the performance of your factory coils based on how it is electrically designed. Better than that, when using our ignition system even HKS will tell you that their unit is completely unnecessary. Go look at a schematic of that unit. Now you see why BHR does not care to engage in the "RWHP gains!" hype so prevalent in this industry.

thanks for the feedback Ray--hope you are doing well.
I have tried ignition coils:
1- Mazsport
2- yukon's
3- ls2's
4- oem with hks twin power dl II (not the I)
all on the factory dwell.
To tell the truth i havent seen any performance difference in any of them, BUT that is probably due to my self imposed 7.5K redline and still running the oem dwell time.
Longetivity is another subject:)

Now you know I am tech challanged and fooling around with a cobb WOULD cause me to break out in a profuse brain sweat!

I have heard of trouble with the msd coils on other cars---dont know the full story on them. Too expensive for me anyway.
I have wondered for a while now how the HKS unit gets around the oem design to produce a stronger/ longer spark. It was cheap when i bought it --so i thought wth? No problems with it.
OD

thanks for the feedback Ray--hope you are doing well.
I have tried ignition coils:
1- Mazsport
2- yukon's
3- ls2's
4- oem with hks twin power dl II (not the I)
all on the factory dwell.
To tell the truth i havent seen any performance difference in any of them, BUT that is probably due to my self imposed 7.5K redline and still running the oem dwell time.
Longetivity is another subject:)

Now you know I am tech challanged and fooling around with a cobb WOULD cause me to break out in a profuse brain sweat!

I have heard of trouble with the msd coils on other cars---dont know the full story on them. Too expensive for me anyway.
I have wondered for a while now how the HKS unit gets around the oem design to produce a stronger/ longer spark. It was cheap when i bought it --so i thought wth? No problems with it.
OD

Funny you mention doing well, as I actually have a cold right now. I was using my own snot as assembly lube in Jeff's engine last night. GROSS! :lol2:

I hope you are well, also. :)

Let's see;
1) Mazsport systems had issues with irregular ignition timing and failure-prone ignitor modules.

2) The "Yukon" coils, as was discussed a year ago at the height of BHR's controversies, do perform best with additional dwell time applied to them.

3) The "LS-2" coils do not seem to need the additional dwell time but they only emit about 1/3 the current the Yukons are capable of.

4) The HKS Twin Power is essentially a "ground lift" box that completely interrupts the grounding circuit. IIRC, that is supposed to cause all the coil output to the tower but the OEM coils do not need help in that regard.

5) MSD (as well as other "racing" ignition components) are not really designed for the long service life we expect and need in our street/daily-driven vehicles and it is completely reasonable to change them far more often than the coils we use in our BHR system because expected racing maintenence regimens are far different than OEM regimens (except maybe with the Mazda coils :lol2:). Further, the MSD coils are intended to emit "multiple sparks" (hence the name Multiple Spark Discharge) until an alleged 3,000 RPMs, where they then revert to single spark output. Not good nor necessary for an engine that has leading and trailing ignition timing events. On top of that, Jeff discovered some funky latency/reaction characteristics when he tried them a couple years ago. All this in totality was why we decided on an OEM-supplier coil and why I made the executive decision to use the "Yukon" coil.

There may be something out there that will accomplish Almighty Output with only the 3.2 mS of dwell our PCM applies at max, and Jeff and I have some ideas on that, but as of now we have yet to find it.

As for why you may not have seen improvements; were you using the ground on the inner fenderwell, near the brake master cylinder? We have found that to be the best spot for grounding the BHR system. Were you using the proper coil tower terminals on the plug wires and were they properly terminated at the plug wires? Both are common errors. As an example; a local (and highly respected) shop-owner/engine builder recently had us come by his place to custom-build sets of wires for both his car and a customer's car. In both cases he clearly built his own wires and was not familiar with the proper way to terminate spark plug wires, and he is a professional. Since he was unaware, I am sure many others are, as well.

^ Hey Ray, do you have a photo of that BHR Ignition ground location? I used the bracket attached to the firewall near the master cyclinder (sanding off the paint) and it seems fine. [btw: I've neatened it up since this photo]

Get well!

From where you are standing when that picture was tooken (LOL), look to your right. Farther....... farther...... a little more, and, there you see an OEM ground point to the right of the master brake cylinder on the inner fenderwell (it is somewhat hiding behind the factory harness as it snakes to the front of the car). There are two ground wires from the factory held in place by a 10mm bolt and we just direct people to add the BHR ground wire to that spot.

That spot in your photo ain't the swellest.

^ K, thanks. I strive to be swell, as do you well. ;)

For some reason, there seem to be a lot of people using that spot as the ground for a number of different circuits lately. The problem is that all that metal is coated to prevent/resist oxidation and, as such, isn't a great conductor. We figured what better ground spot to use than the one Mazda uses themselves?

^ I did say I sanded the paint [to bare metal], but concur a factory ground would be best.

I would have done that originally had my installation instructions so cited ..... but I digress.

Funny you mention doing well, as I actually have a cold right now. I was using my own snot as assembly lube in Jeff's engine last night. GROSS! :lol2:

I hope you are well, also. :)

Let's see;
1) Mazsport systems had issues with irregular ignition timing and failure-prone ignitor modules.

I do seem to have an irregular idle at times where it sounds like it is missing. Also one of the coils cracked right at the base of the neck where the wire boot ends, luckily that happened when Mazsport was still around, so I replaced the one coil for $80.

I keep being worried about a disastrous failure since I have read little remarks here and there about them having problems.

I would have done that originally had my installation instructions so cited ..... but I digress.

In our "Gamma-testing" process since the initial release of the BHR Ignition System we have learned a few things about the varying levels of installation experience and understandings of automotive electronics on part of the end-installer, whether "professional" or novice, and our most recent updates to the installation instructions now reflect the importance of using the ground location I described.

I keep being worried about a disastrous failure since I have read little remarks here and there about them having problems.

I don't really know how to respond to that except to say that I do not encourage people to replace parts simply to pad BHR's bottom line.

Snot visual------agggghhhh cant get it out of my head. Talk about personnel involvement in rebuilds---no other body fluids used i hope:)

i used the msg ls coil specific connectors and boots on msd wires, both were 90 degree connectors. measured continuity was spot on.
i used the plastic corrugated wire loom stuff to help insulate the wires and to keep them separated. Do that with all of them.
i didnt use that ground spot. i used another spot on the rail that the negative battery terminal goes to--sanded it down of course. Its closer to my coil pack that way.
Supra turbo guys tell me that they have oscilloscoped (none to show me) the twin power and what it does for them is to increase the dwell? I am still lost with it.
good info---- thanks.

i used the msg ls coil specific connectors and boots on msd wires, both were 90 degree connectors. measured continuity was spot on.
i used the plastic corrugated wire loom stuff to help insulate the wires and to keep them separated. Do that with all of them.
i didnt use that ground spot. i used another spot on the rail that the negative battery terminal goes to--sanded it down of course. Its closer to my coil pack that way.
Supra turbo guys tell me that they have oscilloscoped (none to show me) the twin power and what it does for them is to increase the dwell? I am still lost with it.
good info---- thanks.

If you used the MSD terminals from their universal kit, they were straight terminals with 90-degree boots. Not a functional issue, just fitment.

Grounding is CRUCIAL with the RX-8.

Supra? As in OBDI or OBDII? Big difference.

Supra turbo guys tell me that they have oscilloscoped (none to show me) the twin power and what it does for them is to increase the dwell?

No way for it to do that.
Probably just delays firing a bit (retards timing).
That isn't what it is designed to do, but it doesn't work on integral-ignitor coils like ours, anyway.
You can ask an HKS engineer - they will tell you it doesn't work on our car.

I think Ray just called me an idiot..... but in a very nice way. ;)

In our "Gamma-testing" process since the initial release of the BHR Ignition System we have learned a few things about the varying levels of installation experience and understandings of automotive electronics on part of the end-installer, whether "professional" or novice, and our most recent updates to the installation instructions now reflect the importance of using the ground location I described.

oh i believe everyone about the hks twin---yall have thought and researched this much more than I have. It is kinda stupid for HKS to advertise that it does increase ignition capability specifically for the RX8. Thats marketing and business for some companies you now a days--i guess. What they should do is to show a confirming oscillascope analysis on their unit. That would leave no doubts.

ray---i dont know if it was obd 1 or 2 cars---good question.
By the way Summit Racing carries 45 degree and 90 degree connectors made by msd for the ls type coils.

Guys---another question. Does cooling the intake charge temps via water methanol injection influence the sparkplug heat range needed?

My car, sometimes, do misfire !
I want to upgrade my coils... but this thread make me lose myself :s
grounding ? how ?
Yukon ? but need to flash my PCM ?!

I think Ray just called me an idiot..... but in a very nice way. ;)

Nah, just saying that I subconsciously assumed a few things when I wrote the first version of the installation instructions and I have had to revise them a couple times since them. IIRC, Huey, you were in that very first batch of kits we built and shipped.

Well, going to try this again. I posted yesterday and guess it was deleted for some reason. Guess it was the pictures of my house or something. I've finally settled in Maryland and started getting on a few projects since I've gotten most of my tools setup. here is a few of my blower setup.

Opps, I posted in the wrong thread, guess i had to many windows open. Wassapinin, been a while. Ive finaly gotten settled in MD. Got a new house in the woods. Been getting going on some projects and one of those is my blower settup but first I want to get Wesses car straitened out. Ive been trying to get ahold of him, guess hes busy. Hows things with you all. Any updates? Heres a few pics of my house. Im setup in the back were I can enjoy nature at its best.

Yep. I'm always an 'early adopter' for great stuff. ;)

Here's my corrected ground:

Nah, just saying that I subconsciously assumed a few things when I wrote the first version of the installation instructions and I have had to revise them a couple times since them. IIRC, Huey, you were in that very first batch of kits we built and shipped.

That's the spot. :)

I guess "that's what she said". :lol2:

how do you ground your oem coils ?
I have to buy another kit ?

I finaly ran my car after 4 month ....

but something is wrong !! when I accelerate, passing 8000RPM I hear something wrong (like "krrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr") and it stop only under this RPM.

Any ideas ?
missing oil ? cooling ?

The only modification lately is an oil catch can....nothing incredible !
see attached where I pluged it

Help wanted :wink2:

check all your vacuum lines, I had a tiny leak that wasnt detectable(audibly) until 7800rpms...

yep---1st step.

MOON! Welcome back dude!!----Woo Hoo!
NICE place--i am on my way up......jk.

Lets see what you get going:)
Hey answer a question for me---doe the spark plug heat range need adjusting if w/m is being used?
OD

nop !
the sound comes from the S/C itself !!!

It s a metallic sound !

I thinck it s time to change the oil I use for the S/C.

What kind of oil do you guys advise me to use ?

Thanks OD, its been a while. I was looking into what im going to need for managment and it looks grim. I hope I dont have to settle for the interceptor.

Speak of the devil and he appears.

Guys, I need someone to check their coil set - I need to know the color code for the wires from the PCM that go to each coil, lead and trail, front and rear. Can't find it in any of the Mazda manuals I've got. Thanks.

Stinks like SeaFoam in here.

Guys, I need someone to check their coil set - I need to know the color code for the wires from the PCM that go to each coil, lead and trail, front and rear. Can't find it in any of the Mazda manuals I've got. Thanks.


Why not just look in the "electrical" section of the FSM? Page 10.
Its in a million places on-line.

Why not just look in the "electrical" section of the FSM? Page 10.
Its in a million places on-line.

Out of a brazilian online sites, I can't see how I missed it. Yes, that'll do quite nicely. RotaryHeads.com

All of the FSM as well as the factory collision guide and parts guide are on my site.

Thanks OD, its been a while. I was looking into what im going to need for managment and it looks grim. I hope I dont have to settle for the interceptor.

No ECU flash for the 09?

Can you just drop in bigger injectors.... :fingersx:
/not.

I take it EFI Dude/Hymee doesn't have an image yet?
Cobb?

nothing for the 09'+s yet.

Yall I am semi seriously thinking of using my car to become a competitive NASA TT car.
With the low boost pulley (hp about 270 or so?) i can just make the TTC class--its thought.
I could be very competitive in that class. I would no longer use it for a DD and a proper cage would be installed.
Think Cam would sponser me --lol!
Hard decisions.
OD

nothing for the 09'+s yet.

Yall I am semi seriously thinking of using my car to become a competitive NASA TT car.

Because of the SC, you will have to dyno and submit for a new base class from Greg Greenbaum at NASA HQ.
That base class will almost certainly be TT-C +14, so unless you do absolutely nothing to make your car lighter and use a stock suspension, you will end up being a TT-B car.

Thanks for the feedback MM. I have been in contact with Greg and Jeff. Jeff is the TT director for the SE region. They have told me to get my hp down to what I mentioned, use no bigger than a 245 tire, basic coilovers and bars with weight at 3150 or so and I should be at TTC.
I would be at a power to weight ratio of approx 11.6/1 and you are right that i wouldnt have much room for anything else.
It was interesting that water injection doesnt cost any points. No methanol can be used however---in any class--unless you run the open ones.
I would not TT without a real cage however. Not going at it to have a undisputed winner of a car, but rather a car that i would be honestly competitive with.
Maybe getting time for another DD?

nothing for the 09'+s yet.

Yall I am semi seriously thinking of using my car to become a competitive NASA TT car.
With the low boost pulley (hp about 270 or so?) i can just make the TTC class--its thought.
I could be very competitive in that class. I would no longer use it for a DD and a proper cage would be installed.
Think Cam would sponser me --lol!
Hard decisions.
OD

Wow, good luck.
Can't you drive a car with a cage on the street?
I made 297RWHP with a stock pulley and no porting.

/NASA??? You won't be like the JATO guy on Mythbusters; will you?

297 with the small pulley? Damn--come to think of it i was pulling over 300g/sec myself.
It may be easier to just go TTB. max power to weight there is 10.25/1 i think and i know i can make that--plus have room for a better suspension tires---this is not a firm decision yet guys--just doing due diligence. But i think i am ready to go to the next step.
Most people dont realize with a little added power the 8 can be a force to reckon with.

Look at this vid with mike driving a na car

http://vimeo.com/8047700

A question I have not been able to answer;

Do extremely high MAF numbers cause tire spin, or does the tire spinning and motor revving, cause high MAF numbers?

/Is this like the chicken and the egg?

Thanks for the feedback MM. I have been in contact with Greg and Jeff. Jeff is the TT director for the SE region. They have told me to get my hp down to what I mentioned, use no bigger than a 245 tire, basic coilovers and bars with weight at 3150 or so and I should be at TTC.
I would be at a power to weight ratio of approx 11.6/1 and you are right that i wouldnt have much room for anything else.

Interesting. What HP mark did they set for you?
When I sent in my dyno (340 HP at the boost that I run on the track) and weight (3314 with me in it), they classed me to TT-C +14 and just counting in my suspension pushed me into TT-B.

A question I have not been able to answer;

Do extremely high MAF numbers cause tire spin, or does the tire spinning and motor revving, cause high MAF numbers?

/Is this like the chicken and the egg?

lol

You serious?

Interesting how those classes are made up . Is it peak power they go on or "area under the curve " ?

260-275 range depending where my weight went. This is with BASIC coilovers and bars and tire size no bigger than 245. No other mods. That would get me to TTC+14 they thought.
I would hate being that close to be thrown into TTB or DQ'ed because there was cold air temps that day.
I think just giving it up and going TTB may be the sane thing to do.
I have heard about a turbo'd RX8 that would have placed 3nd in TTB if he had been running TT.
Track times where there.
you are under a 10/1 ratio?

Brettus ---its peak power after 3 pulls.
OD

Brettus ---its peak power after 3 pulls.
OD

hmmm - not meaning to start anything but .........with turbo you could tune for a flat power curve and have huge advantage ;)

Interesting how those classes are made up . Is it peak power they go on or "area under the curve " ?

It's based on modification and arbitrary decision making.
In our case, equipping the car with aftermarket forced induction means a director looks at our dyno sheet and weight and comes up with a "comparable" platform (in our case, the BMW 135i Coupe), which puts us in TT-C with an additional 14 point penalty.
6 more points and you are in TT-B with cars like the ZR-1 Corvette, Ferrari 348, Mustang Cobra SVT, Mercedes E55 AMG and Porsche 997 Carrera.
6 points are springs, shocks and a swaybar.

260-275 range depending where my weight went.

I guess you could dial back the power, but you would have to demonstrate that there is no way to increase it on the fly.

you are under a 10/1 ratio?


Yeah, I'm 9.2:1

hmmm - not meaning to start anything but .........with turbo you could tune for a flat power curve and have huge advantage ;)

Well, clearly a turbo set-up with the same peak power is always going to have the advantage over an S/C on a road course.

Well, clearly a turbo set-up with the same peak power is always going to have the advantage over an S/C on a road course.

yes, but the advantage can be made even greater by tuning for a flat hp curve . If the number is say 280 you could have 280 from 6000 through to 8500 .

And it can be done without a boost controller which gets around the 'altering on the fly' issue .

Damn, think my engine is done. Doing some unspirited driving the other day. My car started misfiring, All my dash lights lit up, and I've got a HUGE smoke cloud behind me. DTC's P0300 and P204. Had car towed to house. Found LOTS of oil in intake and in spark plugs for rear rotor. No oil on floor and no coolant loss. I'm thinking I lost a seal. Any other causes perhaps?

yes, but the advantage can be made even greater by tuning for a flat hp curve . If the number is say 280 you could have 280 from 6000 through to 8500 .

And it can be done without a boost controller which gets around the 'altering on the fly' issue .

I think thats exactly his point, in a lot of arguments:eyetwitch


:lol:

Sorry to hear that JSK---that sucks.
You can use the 09 short block you know?

No argument here that turbo offers more flexibility in a rd racing situation, every system has benefits and negatives of their own.
Dont forget to add the lotus (na version) and the Porsche 993 (non turbo!) thats in TTB
OD

No, it's not an RX8, but I can't let Denny have all the fun...

Yes, I'll be keeping my day job :lol2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Rcl1Nfpwu8

Damn, think my engine is done. Doing some unspirited driving the other day. My car started misfiring, All my dash lights lit up, and I've got a HUGE smoke cloud behind me. DTC's P0300 and P204. Had car towed to house. Found LOTS of oil in intake and in spark plugs for rear rotor. No oil on floor and no coolant loss. I'm thinking I lost a seal. Any other causes perhaps?

Will it start and run? Does it sound like a motor boat?

Yep pretty much. Took a lot of effort just to get it from the driveway into the garage.

Sorry to hear about the problems, JS.

Damn, think my engine is done. Doing some unspirited driving the other day. My car started misfiring, All my dash lights lit up, and I've got a HUGE smoke cloud behind me. DTC's P0300 and P204. Had car towed to house. Found LOTS of oil in intake and in spark plugs for rear rotor. No oil on floor and no coolant loss. I'm thinking I lost a seal. Any other causes perhaps?

Mark and disconnect the coils from the ECU.
Remove the leading plugs.
Spin the engine and listen: do you here even pulses or PULSE, pulse, PULSE, PULSE, pulse ....

OR

Have a friend spin it with a finger in one leading plug hole; does it feel even?
Try the other hole; same test.

Sorry to hear about it, hope it's OK

the all dash lights lit up throws me here. On my blown engines I never had a dash light come on that fast?

Z baby---man the hp of that M3 shows doesnt it? Wow--tapping 160--now thats a different world. I would probably blow out all my wheel liners at that speed. Love the video set up.

The one thing I wish i could do is to increase acceleration from 115mph to 135mph. This car is pretty quick from 60 to 115, but after that you can tell its air footprint could be better.
Has anyone other that Juan installed the 09 underpanels?

Mark and disconnect the coils from the ECU.

It might be much easier and less prone to error to disconnect the e-shaft sensor. That way, both the ignition and fuel systems are not operational.

It might be much easier and less prone to error to disconnect the e-shaft sensor. That way, both the ignition and fuel systems are not operational.

Charles, I still have your fuel pump tool. With this going on, I haven't gotten around to the fuel pump. I might just ship it back to you and get it from you again later.

A question I have not been able to answer;

Do extremely high MAF numbers cause tire spin, or does the tire spinning and motor revving, cause high MAF numbers?

/Is this like the chicken and the egg?

You serious? any answers?

You serious? any answers?

Semi serious.
I have noticed the data logs during a tire spinning pull show a higher MAF than if the tires did not break loose, but who is to say which is cause and effect.

:dunno:

So that was a serious question? lol

The MAF just measures throughput. Nothing "causes" it.

The motor is just an air pump. It passes a fixed amount of air through itself per rev. The blower is fixed-displacement, so it stuffs a fixed amount of air into the motor per rev.

Now, if you take some of the drag off of the drive train (i.e. the car), what do you think happens?

could different IAT's also come into play? Or does the maf readings have a compensation in them? I know it affects the tune , but i really dont know about the maf readings.
OD

The MAF is the MAF.
It reads mass.

temperature will just affect the mass..ie colder = more mass......

well mass is certainly affected by temps So the the hot wire would be cooled either by lower temps (increased mass) or faster flow (again increased mass)---correct?
OD

You are pretty much spot on OD, the molecules of air it takes to cool the wire is the mass of air moving past the sensor.

Sorry to hear that JSK---that sucks.
You can use the 09 short block you know?

No argument here that turbo offers more flexibility in a rd racing situation, every system has benefits and negatives of their own.
Dont forget to add the lotus (na version) and the Porsche 993 (non turbo!) thats in TTB
OD

has that been done? was offered a 09 motor a while ago to fulfill a debt, but the 3 oil injectors vs two made me wonder. guess you just cap the center one?

beers :beer:

has that been done? was offered a 09 motor a while ago to fulfill a debt, but the 3 oil injectors vs two made me wonder. guess you just cap the center one?

beers :beer:

Wouldn't an 09 OMP have the "extra" injector lines?

hey i had a quick question. does anyone know the item number/part number for the spark plug wires wth the supercharger? I have a missfire and need to replace them.

no part number i know off. Just call Cam and he will sent a set or make your own---its not hard.

09 engine is a bolt in if you can use the S1 omp? Just add 2 extra lines.
09 short block does have a way of hooking up the S1 omp?
OD

correction on my post-----I DONT THINK THE S2 ENGINE CAN BE USED IN THE S1!!
No where to mount the S1 omp?
I dont know even if the front plate can be changed? Dont think so
OD

no part number i know off. Just call Cam and he will sent a set or make your own---its not hard.

09 engine is a bolt in if you can use the S1 omp? Just add 2 extra lines.
09 short block does have a way of hooking up the S1 omp?
OD

I went with MSD 8.5mm, nice wires.:beer05:

hey real quick with the supercharger, what wires (dealing with the ignition coils) go to which plug.
i may not be askn this correctly. its like which wires (going to the ignition coil) blue, green, yellow, ect. goes to which spark plug LL RL LT RT . i hope i asked that correctly...

hey real quick with the supercharger, what wires (dealing with the ignition coils) go to which plug.
i may not be askn this correctly. its like which wires (going to the ignition coil) blue, green, yellow, ect. goes to which spark plug LL RL LT RT . i hope i asked that correctly...


Google is your friend:
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/05_mazda_rx8_firing_order


I put it there so I would not lose it.


I have listed the coils in order from the front of the car to back in the stock coil location.
Coil input colors can confirm this.
1) Green coil input wire is Leading plug front rotor (bottom-front spark plug)
2) White coil input wire is trailing plug front rotor (top-front spark plug)
3) Yellow coil input wire is Leading plug rear rotor (bottom-rear spark plug)
4) Blue coil input wire is trailing plug rear rotor (top-rear spark plug)

haha rote: have you started "stage inflation"? with your 'stage 4'?

How soon before someone claims a 5? 8)

haha rote: have you started "stage inflation"? with your 'stage 4'?

How soon before someone claims a 5? 8)

It was a joke, so, you are a 5?

:eek:

Wouldn't an 09 OMP have the "extra" injector lines?

you missed the point.

dont think the 09 motor will work the series one cars..

beers :beer:

It was a joke, so, you are a 5?

:eek:

No chance, I am firmly a 2, with no plans for more, except maybe a high flow cat if / when, mine dies.

PS Joke was understood!:cwm27:

Well, I tested my compression today thanks to Wes letting me borrow his tester and the front rotor looks good, but I am getting absolutely 0 from the rear rotor. Any ideas?

I am getting absolutely 0 from the rear rotor. Any ideas?

Ideas?
Rebuild the motor.

That's what I'm thinking. Is there anything I should try before I settle on that resolution? What could be causing that rotor to seize?

Rotors don't "seize".

If there is zero compression on any rotor face, it is probably dead.
Zero on all three is absolutely dead.

Plays "Taps".

Zero in all 3 means the apex seals are all gone on that rotor :(

So likely need a few spare parts to do a rebuild...likely the housing is gone for sure..maybe the rotor and irons too...

Zero on all three is absolutely dead.

Zero in all 3 means the apex seals are all gone on that rotor

What are the chances that all three seals are completely gone?
And even if so, wouldn't the transducer still have some feedback... even if its minimal?
I just recently had problems with my compression tester reading all 0s (the waveform had no "spikes") and it was determined to be a defective transducer.
I'm not an expert with compression tests and have only done a few myself, but I just find it difficult to believe that you would not receive any feedback whatsoever on all three faces.
Would't the rotor itself spinning still be enough to produce some sort of pressure?
Maybe someone can shed some light on my curiosity...

If it has pressure on one rotor..and none on the other..I doubt the transducer is suddenly wrong.

You could confirm that by trying it again on the rotor with readings..and see if it still gives you results

If it ate one seal it would have low compression on the 2 affected faces...2 seals...should get a little bit of pressure...but all three usually results in dick all at starter motor RPM's

Funny thing you could likely pull start it and drive it to the shop....as long as you kept the RPM's above about 2500 it will run ( Drove on 50km on a zero rear rotor)...You just could screw up the bits even more than they already are......but likely not an issue as the worst is done

If it has pressure on one rotor..and none on the other..I doubt the transducer is suddenly wrong.

I agree... definitely strange working fine with one and not the other.
But how can a pressure transducer not receive any feedback even with a spinning rotor with no seals (worst case)?
Not saying you guys are wrong... I'm just trying to understand and visualize how its possible.

At 250ish RPM's..the restriction at the seal end is large enough that the air bypasses fine with no pressure buildup. As the speed increases the effective restriction would increase...till the effective compression is larger..

There also might be a low end filter on the circuit that doesn't show low readings...that would depend on the type of tester it is. I know the Rotary Dynamics tester reads very small values...not sure about the Mazda tester

never heard of all 3 seals giving it up at the same time? Especially bad enough to run a Zero on all 3 faces?
should be easy to here a big different between the 2?
puzzling?
OD.

never heard of all 3 seals giving it up at the same time? Especially bad enough to run a Zero on all 3 faces?
should be easy to here a big different between the 2?
puzzling?
OD.

when there is a piece of apex flying around in there it is not hard to lunch the whole shooting gallery

Uh, when one goes, it gouges the housing, which eliminates the possibility of the other two making compression.

I'm using the TR-01 tester. I started with it on the rear rotor as that was where I found oil in the spark plug holes. I got 0 on all 3 faces and 0 rpm so I switched to the front rotor where I got 108, 110, 109 at 259 rpm. I switched back to the rear and got 0's again. I don't doubt the internal damage is extensive as the car went through about a half a quart of oil in it's final 30 seconds of life and the fact that I have a drip of oil coming from my tailpipes. I'm just scratching my head as to what caused it? I wasn't really getting on it. I was probably at 5K rpm and my meth had just begun to spray when it misfired a few times and then poof. Now I need to figure out the whole engine replacement thing. Is anybody planning on a vacation to VA Beach this summer?

I'll be back in March... prolly a long time to wait though.

maybe not an apex? maybe oil control rings/side seals?
Apex seal failure usually doesnt cause increase oil use does it? Or oil in chambers?
Regardless--- it's teardown time.

I am planning on my 25th wedding anniversety in July--since the Gulf may not be an option.....
let me ask the wife:)

Kane ole bud---how the heck are ya? Keeping your butt down? Unit doing OK?

OD

I'll be back in March... prolly a long time to wait though.

Actually, I'm probably going to wait awhile to do this. Up until Oct., I'm underway a lot so I wouldn't even be able to do anything. Heck it took me a month to get this far with it. After that, my wife will be on deployment until the end of February and I'll be playing Mr. Mom, so it might actually be march before I have time to deal with it anyway.

its our 1st anniversary today! hoorah!

Well if you need a hand LMK.

OD, so far so good.... 9 months to go.

Just thought I never post a picture since the paint job :)

kind of mate black :yumyum:

sorry for the picture's quality (took from my phone :D:)

looks good!

nice....I like the bonnet.

It could very well be an apex. In previous rotaries, a damaged apex seal could exit through the peripheral exhaust port allowing two seals to still work correctly.

With side exhaust ports, there is no exit path for the apex seal, so it will stay in the rotor and trash the rotor housing, not allowing the other apex seals to seal at all, hence 0 - 0 - 0 compression.

Pulled two codes from my non-running 8 this morning:

P0103 MAF or VAF A Circuit High Input

P0223 TPS/Pedal Postion Sensor/Switch B Circuit High Input


To recap, car has not run since I installed the new SC, but ran like a top before. Will crank, catch and run for about 2 seconds, then die. Deflood procedure numerous times; Seafoamed both rotors and released apex seals; have good compression. Can't find any errors in the install; verified all circuits, vacuum lines, tested coils, confirmed plug wire routing, confirmed spark.

Having said that, I need some guidance what to do next based on these codes.
Thanks in advance.

MAF/wiring.

Sort of figured that. Anything more specific? Bad MAF? Should I spank it? Seriously...

Swap it for another one and see if it goes away.

May be the tune too, if they messed with the first few cells on the MAF table, but if the tune is the same, it's gotta be the wiring.

Entirely possible I somehow buggered the MAF when I had it out. Is there a way to check the MAF to see if it's good or bad? Thanks Kane. As far as the tune, I've talked extensively with Dian and tried to start it with both the new map and the stock map as the idle/startup cells are essentially the same; both maps give the same result, so I don't think it's the map. There is some obvious problem I'm missing, it's right in front of my face, I just can't see it. These CELs are the only clue I've got right now where to look. One of those things where I've looked at it for so long I think I need fresh eyes to spot what I'm missing.

unplug the maf and see if it will idle? DO NOT race the engine.
all vacuum lines are ok--Correct?
Do you have boost/vac gauge?
PM sent.
OD

unplug the maf and see if it will idle? DO NOT race the engine.
OD

good suggestion OD

Unplugged MAF. No start, no love.

Cleaned MAF/IAT.

No love.

Try push starting it - has worked for me when all else failed ....

The brute force solution when you're out of ideas.

Not so sure that's a good idea until I know why I'm getting the CEL. This car ran fine until I did the install, so the problem is obviously there. Pushing it with a defect isn't going to solve anything.

Again: look at the CEL codes, especially the TPS code. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?

To recap, car has not run since I installed the new SC, but ran like a top before. Will crank, catch and run for about 2 seconds, then die. .

This comment makes me think it is worth a try .
Even if it does not work it kinda rules out all problems associated with starting an engine that has no major faults .

hmmmm-----
goog friend of mine told me one time when i was chasing a car gremlin
"Dont get ahead of myself"
I know you are getting codes about the maf ---its hard to tear them up unless you know you did something. The maf connector is on the drivers side--correct?
So check list time
1- getting spark---check? right?
2- getting fuel? You are not out of gas are you? Dont laugh as I have earned the right to ask!
3- since you had to pop the connectors out of the oem harness that would be the 1st place i would look on both the maf and the TB--sometimes after you get everything put together the backs of the connectors will not be fully seated and when you connect it the little inside connectors will slip backward etc and connection will be lost.
It will get fixed. Take a break cuss out a tree and then go back!
OD
OD

Did you remove the ECU? The MAF and the Throttle connectors are on different harnesses...so I doubt that you have a problem with both at the same time...that would be really pissy luck

If you didn't get the ECU plugs seated properly that would do it as well :)

I am going to install some new gauges, & I want some Help !!!
I want to know where (around the S/C) I have to plug my gauge to get the boost & vaccum !

Thanks,

I plugged mine into the intake manifold. It has some nice nipples to use.
Both upper and lower intakes have usable nipples. I have a boost sensor in one and a intake charge temp sensor in the other.

Early morning...coffee...check. Ibuprofen...check. One, two dogs and a cat...check. Condom still in wallet...hmmm, check, unsure if that's good or bad...dogs and cat don't seem to be smiling and I'm in a pissy mood, so I'll take it to mean I didn't have unprotected sex with anyone except myself. So far, so good.

Denny and Dannobre: good thoughts, especially about the ECU connectors. LOL Denny, yes, I made sure a long time ago I had plenty of fresh high test in the tank :mdrmed:. And it is indeed making it to the intake.

All coils new and tested, confirmed plug wire routing to be proper, plugs new and clean, although I need to confirm spark to all of them; I'm not fast enough anymore to crank the engine and jump out and see if there is spark across the gap, and I don't have any friends, so I'm going to hire one today. I tried to use the terriers as spark indicators once, but there was a whole thing with the SPCA and PETA, and frankly, I just don't have anywhere else to hide the bodies, so I'll skip that idea.

Plan of action: ECU connectors, fire at the plugs, check FSM for action on codes.
Loverly. Denny, expect a phone call later.

It's....alive!!!!!!

ok what was it and was it embarrassing?
Mine usually are.
Love your posts dude---had to laugh.
My 1st drive after my install resulted in me blowing a vacuum line in which i had to find a pine stick to jamb down the hole so i could get home.
Welcome to the club and leave the terriers alone (i have 2 jacks --dogs that is.)
Oh by the way i returned your call---no answer. you must be out having fun.
D

Oh, Denny, you're gonna love this :scratchhe:cussing::wallbash:

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg16/zenbiker/IMGP1620.jpg

:rollingla:

THAT'S FUNNY ;)...........

Much better than a rag :)

hahaha nice one

Yeah. Freakin' Classic. Friend sez, "let's check to see if the throttle plate is stuck." Pulled off the air cleaner and MAF housing, I get in and press the gas, he nods "yeah, it works..."; then he cranes his neck a little closer and says "Oh, wait, do that again...that's not supposed to be in there", at which point I knew what the problem was. Pulled it out, started right up, runs like a freakin' jet turbine - after the cat burned clean, that is:

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg16/zenbiker/IMGP1621.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg16/zenbiker/IMGP1622.jpg

Yeh, beating my head on the table, always gotta be something. Sorry about that Wess, glad we found it before we started taking your car apart. I ow ya big time.

Wes--- i am still laughing dude:)
I want yall to know that yall have been firmly qualify into the Pettit self install club.
Without question.
Got a free yard skeeter (as in Musk) treatment to boot.
Congrats on getting it going
OD

HEhe
Reminds me of the guy that parted out his turbo kit because his engine ran like crap with a rag stuck in the charge tube .
Then there was the guy who piped his oil line into the charge tubing .

hmmm - i see an FI theme here ....

Yeh, beating my head on the table, always gotta be something. Sorry about that Wess, glad we found it before we started taking your car apart. I ow ya big time.

Yah, bee-yotch:pokeowned

'specially since I got this little item that will 4ever hang in my shop:

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg16/zenbiker/IMGP1624.jpg

Seriously, overlooking the big red plug in the intake, Moon's Install Skilz are obvious. After clearing the intake and recovering from alternating between "OMG, I can't believe it" and laffing our backsides off, my car fired right up and ran like a an insane turbine. Hearing that baby spool at 8k rpm made it all worthwhile. Thanks, Moon, you are the man!:kiss:

BTW, I was just kidding about owning you and the prison sex thing....:eek::ky::yelrotflm:

Oh, Denny, you're gonna love this :scratchhe:cussing::wallbash:

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg16/zenbiker/IMGP1620.jpg

:rollingla:

That's so effin funie and priceless :eyetwitch

unbealivable !!!
so funny +1 :)
Can't imagine to check that point :D :lol:

Yeah. Freakin' Classic. Friend sez, "let's check to see if the throttle plate is stuck." Pulled off the air cleaner and MAF housing, I get in and press the gas, he nods "yeah, it works..."; then he cranes his neck a little closer and says "Oh, wait, do that again...that's not supposed to be in there", at which point I knew what the problem was. Pulled it out, started right up, runs like a freakin' jet turbine - after the cat burned clean, that is:

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg16/zenbiker/IMGP1621.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg16/zenbiker/IMGP1622.jpg

"I don't have any friends" Hmmm :scratchhe I wonder why? :eyetwitch

dead kitteh.

quality! Problem solved! 8)

PS do you have gas mask for your garage?!

dead kitteh.

:lol2:

Never liked cats much anway...

wes PM sent
OD

Some one step on my rear seat and I heard a small "CHTAK".
Strange I thought !!!

Finaly when I came to turn my car on...lots of fuel on the floor !!!!

attached the part that broke....

Have to change the whole fuel pump !!!!

If you haven't yet upgraded your fuel pump motor, I suppose now would be a good time to do it and I have a brand new fuel pump assembly with the upgraded fuel pump motor already installed. It is as "drop-in" as the K+N air filter assembly, has no core return, and a loaner fuel pump removal tool is included.

Some one step on my rear seat and I heard a small "CHTAK".
Strange I thought !!!

Finaly when I came to turn my car on...lots of fuel on the floor !!!!

attached the part that broke....

Have to change the whole fuel pump !!!!

I broke the EXACT SAME PART while installing my BHR fuel pump. Note to self (and others): Tighten pump first, THEN clip on the fuel line.

If you can find a broken FP from anywhere you can just swap the top plastic piece and you're good to go. That's what I did.

I would however recommend the BHR fuel pump upgrade. No more fuel cut on high g-force left turns! Actually the day I swapped it I could barely drive straight at low RPM, the FP kept shutting off every a few miles. That thing is almost as weak as our coils...

Some one step on my rear seat and I heard a small "CHTAK".
Strange I thought !!!

Finaly when I came to turn my car on...lots of fuel on the floor !!!!

attached the part that broke....

Have to change the whole fuel pump !!!!

How did they manage to step through the steel access plate that protects the pump?
Why were they "stepping" on your seat and did they weigh 700 pounds?

How did they manage to step through the steel access plate that protects the pump?
Why were they "stepping" on your seat and did they weigh 700 pounds?

^ exactly. there's an access panel in the way. i dont see how this is possible...

Me either! Damn:)

Well I have cured my 1st/2nd gear belt slippage. Dang engine spins up so fast i was having a time with this before. The rest of the gears were ok.
What I did was to buy a belt that was 1/2 inch longer. I then took the idler pulley adjustment bolt out of the slot, tighened the belt tension with a wooden pry bar (never use metal) and once tension set I tighen the idler pulley. I then used the head of the adjustment bolt to back up on the slot so the idler pulley could not back out any. You have to be careful of the pulley alinghment.get that right or the belt will squel like a stuck pig. This will get you more blower pulley wrappage from the belt./
Now just using the belt tension rule of twisting it 90 degrees with your hand, i am not getting ANY belt slip, even in 1st gear:)
OD

I broke the EXACT SAME PART while installing my BHR fuel pump. Note to self (and others): Tighten pump first, THEN clip on the fuel line.

If you can find a broken FP from anywhere you can just swap the top plastic piece and you're good to go. That's what I did.

I would however recommend the BHR fuel pump upgrade. No more fuel cut on high g-force left turns! Actually the day I swapped it I could barely drive straight at low RPM, the FP kept shutting off every a few miles. That thing is almost as weak as our coils...

I already (as I have a race next week) order a new part at onlinemazdaparts.com !
But I already have a 255lph fuel pump (not walbro) & the mazda fuel tool :mdrmed:

How did they manage to step through the steel access plate that protects the pump?
Why were they "stepping" on your seat and did they weigh 700 pounds?

He didn't jump on the seat... he had to take some pictures (my car is going to be in a "newspaper") so he "knee" on the seat...& I just ehear that something was wrong...

(my car is going to be in a "newspaper")

What is the compelling human interest angle?

700 lb gorilla assaults fuel pump with baseball bat or something...

He didn't jump on the seat... he had to take some pictures (my car is going to be in a "newspaper") so he "knee" on the seat...& I just ehear that something was wrong...

Yah - but how did his knee go through a 14ga steel plate? (And 2" of dense foam and leather.)

Yah - but how did his knee go through a 14ga steel plate? (And 2" of dense foam and leather.)

Meet the cameraman :eyetwitch

Meet the cameraman :eyetwitch

:SHOCKED:
LoL !

To be honest I do not know How this sh*t broke ! but it did & I heard this awful breaking noise when the cameraman enter my car !

:SHOCKED:
LoL !

To be honest I do not know How this sh*t broke ! but it did & I heard this awful breaking noise when the cameraman enter my car !

Was this the guy?

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg16/zenbiker/blog_jeff.png

Guys---i may be crazy but i am thinking about venting the oem hood?
Sorta like the way some S2000 guys does theirs?
COmments and opinions?
OD

To the extent that is relieves any potential air pressure in the engine bay it is a good idea if executed properly and many have seen benefits from it.

true that ---and thats the tricky part.
Its actually better to vent it under the car if you can--but so far that hasnt worked out very well.
OD

Was this the guy?

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg16/zenbiker/blog_jeff.png

I'm way too skinny to break that cover!

true that ---and thats the tricky part.
Its actually better to vent it under the car if you can--but so far that hasnt worked out very well.
OD

Racecars like to have negative pressure under the car.

well-- a car is a ruff wing:)
enclosed hood /engine bays can actually cause lift at high speeds.
D

enclosed hood /engine bays can actually cause lift at high speeds.
D

What is the definition of "lift" in our current discussion?

What ever happened to the cooling mod rotr8 was trying out in the lower part of his front bumper? I do not recall if it was a Pettit design though.

he's using is as are a few others afaik. it was a pettit design

he's using is as are a few others afaik. it was a pettit design

What ever happened to the cooling mod rotr8 was trying out in the lower part of his front bumper? I do not recall if it was a Pettit design though.

It's too early in the summer but it seems to be working (installed this winter). I need a few more trial hot days with temps over 105 before I comment further. Was pleasantly surprised on a recent trip with air temps at 110 and speeds in excess of the speed limit, my temp never got above 203 degrees F. But will it work in stop and go traffic on a 117+ degree day? That will be the real test.

Guys---i may be crazy but i am thinking about venting the oem hood?
Sorta like the way some S2000 guys does theirs?
COmments and opinions?
OD

the oem hood is a mess to modify :icon_no2:

I prefered changing !
I love the seibon's hood... but was difficult to get one so I choose the veilside wich is good quality :lol2:

with too much pressure in the engine bay has resulted in a 1-2 inch lift on the front at 100+ mph. This was not an RX8--it was a domestic car.
The 8 has pretty good engine bay airflow on the track---its low speed flow i am trying to address.
OD

the oem hood is a mess to modify :icon_no2:

Nah. It's easy.

!!!!!!!!
You went with the v mount?
Good job--looks clean.
Data--was it worth it?

New thing for me to think about also stainless stell oil filters? Anyone with experience with them?
OD

Nah. It's easy.
http://www.rx8club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=157482&d=1276022261


was wondering when i'd see this here:rock:

oh and i meant to ask you, are you/did you weld the aluminum duct/hood for a nice clean finish? it'd allow the whole thing to be painted and look right;)

The 8 has pretty good engine bay airflow on the track---its low speed flow i am trying to address.
OD

If it flows well at high speeds/track speeds, why would that change at low speeds?

Wild guess: less airflow at low speeds won't carry away heat soak from high speed runs, or worse, traffic. Perhaps a couple of ducted fans, or water/meth spray nozzles on the radiator(s)...

The 8 has pretty good engine bay airflow on the track---its low speed flow i am trying to address.
OD

simple - big ass single fan .

next question :smoker:

Wes you hit it right on the head.
Problem imho with engine bay air flow is the radiators are design to exhaust under the car ----right? But when the fans are not on that radiator heat will have to be moved per airflow through the front air intake area and convection---right. Now if you are on the interstate --its all good. But, get in the city on a high 90degree day and things start to get hot. Once again--not enough airflow--- present to help cool the engine bay.
For just experimental reasons i placed a 7 inch high speed fan on the top area of the engine --more so on the exhaust side and i lifted my hood a little per the MM trick so the fan could get a little more fresh air. Results? Things got hotter. WHY?? IMHO the airflow of the fan did not have room to push the engine bay air out. The exhaust side of the engine ie pretty crowed as is the intake side. Fans in the engine bay or stronger fans on the radiator will not help engine bay temps.
Alternator temps were in the 180's to 190's, fuel rail temps were in the 170's 180's!!! Etc.
exhaust header temp at parking (i do have mine insulated) was 190F. Thats good at least but it is also in a better airflow area.
Remember my engine coolant and oil temps are fine--never over 180--185.
Ideas for low speed reduction of engine bay heat---
1- Vented hood? Has anyone measured the reduction in engine bay temps using the various hoods out there?
2- extend the radiator d/c duct a little further and insulate it?
3- somehow use the side vents?
4- GET RID OF THE OEM RADIATOR POSITION? Get an aftermarket one that will fit a vertical instalation further toward the front. There is room I think on the backside the bumper support.
This would open a LOT of room in the front of the engine bay?
This may not be as hard as it sounds.
Thoughts??
What kind of underhood temps are yall seeing?
OD

Nah. It's easy.

what is that ? an intercooler ?

what is that ? an intercooler ?

Yes.


http://www.rx8club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=157529&stc=1&d=1276100557

MM, that looks sweet.

Going to put a protective mesh over it?

Going to put a protective mesh over it?

Maybe, but probably not. So far, the only thing to hit it have been bugs, and they go in at an oblique angle. Even on the track days, the errant rubber seems to go right by.
The ICs are so cheap, I'd rather expend them than give up even a fraction of the cooling benefit.

really clean --like the look too.
After seeing that ---maybe I am being a little anal about underhood temps.
OD

HELP WANTED !

I have a glowshift boost/vaccum gauge instaled but I do not know where to plug it.
If I plug it after the BoValve it do not work as those valve sucks instead of blowing!

I already answered JMK! 8)

The intake manifolds (both upper and lower) have nipples where you can plug in sensors.

I pluged to the lower nipple but it didn't work corectly...only vaccum never boost :s

I'll try again in few minutes

HELP ! i am desperate !

I tryied for hours to connect every where !
I've got a glow shift boost / vaccum gauge
but it only detects suction (vaccum) everywhere I pluged it.

why the T has a vaccum restriction ?

arf..i am lost

Three possibilities that come to mind

*do you have a one way check valve in the line to the guage ?
*the guage does not work
*you are not makeing any boost

Three possibilities that come to mind

*do you have a one way check valve in the line to the guage ?
*the guage does not work
*you are not makeing any boost

or it is installed before the SC

Three possibilities that come to mind

*do you have a one way check valve in the line to the guage ?
*the guage does not work
*you are not makeing any boost

* I do have a one check valve ( green & white ) just after thé vaccum box
* the gauge do work. If i blow in the Line it detect boost
* Can't answer this one

i pluged it between the s/c nipple and the bov ...

I ll take some picts :)

Dude--- a boost/vacuum gauge is a simple thing. it will either work or not.
if you have it plugged into the lim nipple and it shows vacuum (what vacuum number was it by the way?), then if the gauge is ok it will show boost when you give it enough gas. did you drive the car with it installed? Or just free reving it?

By the way my wife and I have thought about coming to your country for our anniversary. it reminds me of the "old Caribbean" that I miss so much.
olddragger

* I do have a one check valve ( green & white ) just after thé vaccum box


So you have a one way check valve in the line to the boost gauge ?

If so , there is your problem .

no, the check valve should be there, after the vac tank.

I spose check to make sure its facing the right way though?

It shoudl be :
vac tank -> check valve -> "T" piece split to -> UIM nipple & Bypass valve nipple

er not sure about how the SC is set up . What I can say for sure is , if there is a check valve between the boost guage and the pressure/vac source that you will only get either vac or boost , not both .

The clue is in the name : 'ONE WAY check valve'

the check valve is just from the vac tank though.

Boost come from the charger into the intercooler UIM, LIM then engine. If a boost gauge sensor is in the LIM, or UIM, it should read boost fine....
My boost sensor is in one of the LIM nipples (I have a charge temp sensor in the UIM)

ok guys I'll try again !

0D > that would be a pleasur to see you theire :)

btw I installed a new catback (exotic speed TII 3" without silencer) and my car do not work anymore... strange isn't it :)

Huh?
Dont understand that?


Well guys I took my engine and a/w intercooler to the next level of efficitcy.
We all know at speed the cooling is ok. Heck the engine bay is cooler on track than on the road and the engine and related stuff is also good.
It has been low speed heat soak that i have been fighting. Here is my 1st attempt "at the next level'
My secondary radiator had the engine coolant good--no problems with low speed cooling of the coolant. However my a/w intercooler was having probs with low speed driving struggling to get good cooling done.
Yall know that I mounted my 2 radiator on the front support beam. Worked well but the entire system lacked something.
Well, it is not there anymore. I have a beeter set up now.
I knew the i/c needed better air flow so I mounted my i/c radiators on the front beam and now they are verdical and up front, i shorten all the hoses i could and i installed an increased flow rate pump. Now the intake air temps without my w/m system running is cooler by 20-25 degrees AND it cools heat soak down much faster. So on a 90F day my intake charge temps without w/m is at 115F -120F or so in normal suburbian driving. On the road it is 115 or below. This is with a/c on.
Now what I did with my secondary radiator (i have a single-- size 21x7) is to mount it on the undertray with a space cut out so it can ventilate. Already been done you say? Yep it has--and by reall good people and it works really well. BUT, you still have to have air movement which during stop and go is pretty limited.
SO what I did was to not mount a scoop over ithe cooler, instead i mounted a switched fan on top of it. That has worked out extremely well:). Warm up is now faster and I can control the temps when i want. So at stop and go time if i see 190F i switch it on and the temps drops to 175-180 in a couple minutes---no shit!
On the road the engine is fine with just the air flow and no fan. coolant 170-180 at most. (I drilled my thermostatnt a long time ago)
So there you have it---better intercooler/radiator airflow efficentcy and control of the engine temps during these hot day in stop and go traffic. Sweet --I pat myself on the back and other areas when the wife aint looking!
OD