Not trying to start a flame war or a big debate, in fact it would probably be best if you just voted and didn't explain why you feel the way you do since it's been covered so many times in other threads. I'm just curious what people really feel without having to defend their stance of get into a huge flame war or the same discussion ad nauseum.

its probably going to start a flame war. you've already stated in voskos thread that you didn't feel it had 238 HP. i'm breaking mine in and have been granny shifting for a week now and havnt been over 4500 rpm but i voted that it does have 238HP because you asked me how i feel not whether i know if its true or not. :)

IkeWRX again... :P

Anti RX8 are we?

I don't think I have seen one positive question or remark from you.

Is there an ignore button somewhere?

Originally posted by RX-GR8
its probably going to start a flame war. you've already stated in voskos thread that you didn't feel it had 238 HP. i'm breaking mine in and have been granny shifting for a week now and havnt been over 4500 rpm but i voted that it does have 238HP because you asked me how i feel not whether i know if its true or not. :)

Let's hope this stays clear of flames, and your answer is fair enough :p

Magnesium, exactly what is negative about this poll, and yes there is an ignore button, and I've just used it. FYI I like the RX-8 quite a bit.


Thanks,
Ike

flame suit please

Set the mixture on the flame thrower to rich :D

Less than 238, I own an 8, bought it in July.

Originally posted by IkeWRX


Let's hope this stays clear of flames, and your answer is fair enough :p

Magnesium, exactly what is negative about this poll, and yes there is an ignore button, and I've just used it. FYI I like the RX-8 quite a bit.


Thanks,
Ike

LOL, its not worth it IkeWRX. They will never face the facts

Blue you moron, if you could ever come up with an actual FACT for us to face that would be one thing. However you don't have any facts. You have a VERY small amount of data that supports your continued OPINIONS on this board. Of course, there is also data that does NOT support your opinion that you studiously ignore. So why don't you either start contributing with something useful or shut the heck up?

NOT THIS CRAP AGAIN!!!!!!

Look go somewhere else, this BS has run its course. Drive the car, if you like it buy it, if you don't then shut the hell up and go find something else to do!!!!!!

Sorry, but this site is turning into the "nit-picking whiner forum". IT'S GETTING OLD!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by aussie77
Blue you moron, if you could ever come up with an actual FACT for us to face that would be one thing. However you don't have any facts. You have a VERY small amount of data that supports your continued OPINIONS on this board. Of course, there is also data that does NOT support your opinion that you studiously ignore. So why don't you either start contributing with something useful or shut the heck up?

Like I said, when this is stilling going on months from now you will eventually have to accept its a low 15's, 90-92mph car. And of course occasionally one will crack into the 14's when the conditions and launch are perfect. Kinda like when the moon and the Sun allign we get an eclipse.

PS: Hey, I will video all the rx8's runs this weekend at import wars if there are any and post them here for ya for you all to see..

:D

Originally posted by RX22
NOT THIS CRAP AGAIN!!!!!!

Look go somewhere else, this BS has run its course. Drive the car, if you like it buy it, if you don't then shut the hell up and go find something else to do!!!!!!

Sorry, but this site is turning into the "nit-picking whiner forum". IT'S GETTING OLD!!!!!!!!

You have Aussie and RX8Lover to blame for my behavior, they did there best to piss me off and they succeeded even when all I was doing is giving input and facts.

Originally posted by Blue 350z


You have Aussie and RX8Lover to blame for my behavior, they did there best to piss me off and they succeeded even when all I was doing is giving input and facts.

Actually I was referring to this whole thread. Why do we have to go on and on about this subject. Personally I couldn't care less what the thing runs the 1/4 in. I just want it to be fun to drive. If I wanted some 1/4 mile beast I would go find a Z06 or something.

On another note, I really haven't paid much attention to your previous posts, but why do you and this WRX guy hang out in the RX8 forum if you have a Z and a WRX? I'm not trying to be snotty, but I have no interest in going to a Z or WRX forum site, so I'm just trying to understand this. I assume that all of us here know that your Z and WRX are probably faster than our 8, but we really just don't care. I know I stopped caring about that stuff when I was 17.

Originally posted by IkeWRX
Not trying to start a flame war or a big debate... *sigh*

Like I said, when this is stilling going on months from now you will eventually have to accept its a low 15's, 90-92mph car.

You asked what he is doing here? This sentence says it all. Somehow he feels better about himself when he is dishing the 8.

That said Blue I am just going to ignore you. You are a troll. Nothing more than a troll. You don't say anything constructive or useful, and your 'facts' are nothing more than speculations. Whatever it is you are compensating for by being here and acting like an ass, I hope that someday surgery or drugs can help you with it. But I'm done responding to your BS.

Originally posted by Blue 350z
You have Aussie and RX8Lover to blame for my behavior, they did there best to piss me off and they succeeded even when all I was doing is giving input and facts.

Hey, you forgot me! Your input and "facts" are very selective and biased - you consistently ignore any and all data points which don't agree with your position. I asked you before - the RX-8 1/4 mile runs you witnessed that were in the 15s - how did they launch? If it wasn't an 8K rpm clutch drop, they didn't get a real time. Period. Convenient to quote times when the drivers aren't getting the best from the car, isn't it? Of course, you try to ignore and refuse to answer those questions which make you look stupid (you're pitifully unsuccessful, by the way). Speaking of which, have you figured out the difference between bitumen and gravel yet?

OK, enough making fun of the idiot troll Blue350Z. It's way too easy, anyway. (I nominate Blue350Z for the position of "official village idiot of RX-8Forum"!)

Speaking of facts - IkeWRX, have you seen the new Rotary News article (http://rotarynews.com/view.php?id=212) with Mazda Engineering's official announcement/explanation of why the RX-8 dyno numbers are low? Hate to spoil your fun, but maybe they actually are telling the truth? :p

Regards,
Gordon

IKE: By trying to group us all into your nice little catagories that you can understand, you left out the most important and major catagory of your slanted pole. Those that do not care about the HP, never did, have plenty to enjoy, and love the car. This is the one fact stated over and over in this forum that you and Blu refuse to listen to and apparently can't understand. Let me put it in different terms that maybe you will understand. FACT: I would have more fun losing to you, than you would ever have beating me!!! It is this one fact that you cannot even start to comprehend that pisses you and BLU off so bad.

People go to Forums for cars they have or wish they had. I wonder which one of these two catagories you and Blu fall into.

Originally posted by Blue 350z


You have Aussie and RX8Lover to blame for my behavior, they did there best to piss me off and they succeeded even when all I
was doing is giving input and facts.

Thread Hijacking (give me a minute)

Don't you get it? you piss off other people. And it stopped being about the car a long time ago. You could say anything about anything, and I (pesonally) would still think you are just trying to be this obnoxious, physcicist, arrogant almost 30 year old numb-nutts (yeah, you seem to be numb, with all due respect, you simply don't get it -you seem to be the guy who goes to a gay-parade to tell redneck gay jokes, and doesn't even realize where he is!)

You know I approached you the right way when I PM'd you, and you still replied with a simple: "I state facts..." fine. Now answer me this question: DO YOU LIKE THE RX8?

IkeWRX has my respect; he is simply acid and has a sense of humor. Some of us should actually learn a bit about him...at least he is not growing gray hair because of this forum. See my point?

Originally posted by Gord96BRG



Speaking of facts - IkeWRX, have you seen the new Rotary News article (http://rotarynews.com/view.php?id=212) with Mazda Engineering's official announcement/explanation of why the RX-8 dyno numbers are low? Hate to spoil your fun, but maybe they actually are telling the truth? :p


Even if thats true how do they explain the low numbers (expecially traps) people are getting at the track. The numbers point directly to a 180whp 3000LB car (RSX-Type-S comes to mind). That's gonna be alot harder to explain since you can't just explain it with technical mumbo jumbo.

Originally posted by Blue 350z


Even if thats true how do they explain the low numbers (expecially traps) people are getting at the track. The numbers point directly to a 180whp 3000LB car (RSX-Type-S comes to mind). That's gonna be alot harder to explain since you can't just explain it with technical mumbo jumbo.

Bad drivers.... :D

How do you explain the people that had met or surpassed Mazda numbers?! Goes both ways...

LOL. It only goes both ways if you look at BOTH sides of the story. Some people refuse to do so unfortunately.

Good old rotarynews.com... you guys rock :) Thanks for keeping us up to date on the situation.

Guys,

It is a fair poll and the results are interesting.

-Mr. Wigggles

Originally posted by MrWigggles
Guys,

It is a fair poll and the results are interesting.

-Mr. Wigggles

Agreed. Now if we could only stick to what Ike suggested: no trolling, no flaming..just vote, and give your opinion if you think worth it. Then step out....come back a few days later to collect the data.

Originally posted by Blue 350z
Even if thats true how do they explain the low numbers (expecially traps) people are getting at the track. The numbers point directly to a 180whp 3000LB car (RSX-Type-S comes to mind). That's gonna be alot harder to explain since you can't just explain it with technical mumbo jumbo.

Like Bern said - bad drivers. Of course, we've already tried to cover this point several times with you, but you keep ignoring the answer - are you hoping it'll change? Just a few posts prior to yours:

Originally posted by Gord96BRG
you consistently ignore any and all data points which don't agree with your position. I asked you before - the RX-8 1/4 mile runs you witnessed that were in the 15s - how did they launch? If it wasn't an 8K rpm clutch drop, they didn't get a real time. Period. Convenient to quote times when the drivers aren't getting the best from the car, isn't it? Of course, you try to ignore and refuse to answer those questions which make you look stupid (you're pitifully unsuccessful, by the way). Speaking of which, have you figured out the difference between bitumen and gravel yet?

I could cruise down a quarter mile in a nice leisurely fashion and get a 30 sec. quarter mile - is that representative of what the car could achieve with a good driver?

Regards,
Gordon

Originally posted by Gord96BRG


I could cruise down a quarter mile in a nice leisurely fashion and get a 30 sec. quarter mile - is that representative of what the car could achieve with a good driver?

Regards,
Gordon


LOL... I wrote something like that when I was composing my last post.. but it was a little too flamable, so I removed it. It take skill to drive.. I know we all want to be an Andretti or an Ibarra, but that just isn't going to happen, unless you practice and practice... So get out and drive.

Good drag racers can get a whole second or more out of the same cars that novices use. And even then, their times can vary. So picking and choosing slow data points is like saying your College GPA is based off of your lowest grade you got in that midterm exam in DiffEq's.

Originally posted by Gord96BRG


Like Bern said - bad drivers. Of course, we've already tried to cover this point several times with you, but you keep ignoring the answer - are you hoping it'll change? Just a few posts prior to yours:



Whatever helps you sleep at night :p

Its not exactly rocket science driving a stick, and a 2.16 is a good 60' and that run resulted in a 15.2@91.96 run.. But I guess hope is all you fella's got ;) But eventually reality will set in.

Originally posted by RX8-TX
You know I approached you the right way when I PM'd you, and you still replied with a simple: "I state facts..." fine. Now answer me this question: DO YOU LIKE THE RX8?

Can he answer a simple question?

Its not a fair pole, its an stupid slanted pole. Two catagories are for people who don't own the car, very possibly never driven the car stating their felling of how much horsepower the car has. The fifth catagory implies that if you don't have a feeling on the horsepower the only alternative would be you don't know anything about horsepower so therefore you don't have an opinion. Leaving out the most important catagory, People who don't care about horsepower, and love this new SPORTS CAR, and kept it even though they had a money back guarantee.

Originally posted by RX8-TX


Can he answer a simple question?

Sure i'll answer... Here's is my honest opinion.

Exterior:
Outside needs to grow on you, looks a bit bloated from the profile only because its an odd shape. But overall its an eye catching car and looks good from most angles. IMO the Altezza style rear lights look out of place and when a licence plate is attached to the front (Its the law here in MA) it makes the front look a bit funny.

Interior:
I this its a very nice interior, I always thought that Mazda had nice interior designs with good fit and finish. IMO it may be a bit overdone with all the rotary references in the one I looked into. But compared to my Z's interior its deffinatly of a higher quality but the style and design itself (just the looks of it) are i'd say equal to my Z.

Handeling:
I'm sure it handles very well since it has large tires and weights about 3000lbs. Low weight, good suspension and large tires = good handling.

Performance:
Here were it gets ugly to me. As a single guy with no family (don't car about a cushy ride and 4 seats/doors) I wanted a performace orentated car.

The RX8 suffers from a lack of torque (5-60 numbers tell the tale, nearly 8 seconds!). Now to make this issue worse Mazda steals HP from the USA models

I have NO DOUBT that the car would be pulling 14.5 times IF it had the full advertised 247HP (probably 205ish to the wheels). But its making about 215-220HP (180ish to the wheels) which would result in exactly low 15's. Deffinatly now slow, but the performance deffinatly does not measure up to what the aggressive looks would suggest.

Economy:
Not a big deal IMO, but I drive hard and do alot of city driving. I get 20-22MPG with hard driven city miles and 29-32 on the HWY. And when gas is $2 a gallon it adds up.

Looks and styling: 8 out of 10 (after you get over the strange proportions)

Performance: If it performed as origionally advertized a 8 out of 10. As it is now, 5 out of 10.

Everyday usefullness (if your looking for that kinda thing) 9/10 (if you don't count the low torque numbers (since adding more weight to the car.. passangers.. makes this worse and the sporty goes away and drives more like a sedan) and the bad MPG)

Originally posted by Blue 350z


Whatever helps you sleep at night :p

Its not exactly rocket science driving a stick, and a 2.16 is a good 60' and that run resulted in a 15.2@91.96 run.. But I guess hope is all you fella's got ;) But eventually reality will set in.

Did you notice that this is ALWAYS the fact that he backs his argument on? Always. This is ONE friggin driver.

Look, I have nothing against you. but you have to stop trying to prove your point based on one or two people's runs.

EVENTUALLY REALITY WILL SET IN... :D :D

Originally posted by Chuck Clifford
IKE: By trying to group us all into your nice little catagories that you can understand, you left out the most important and major catagory of your slanted pole. Those that do not care about the HP, never did, have plenty to enjoy, and love the car. This is the one fact stated over and over in this forum that you and Blu refuse to listen to and apparently can't understand. Let me put it in different terms that maybe you will understand. FACT: I would have more fun losing to you, than you would ever have beating me!!! It is this one fact that you cannot even start to comprehend that pisses you and BLU off so bad.

People go to Forums for cars they have or wish they had. I wonder which one of these two catagories you and Blu fall into.

Actually chuck if I wanted to find out if people still liked their car regardless of what HP it had I would have made a different poll. I already know the majority of you love your car no matter what hp it has and I can respect that. Just because you love your car the way it is does not mean you don't have an opinion on the matter. Many people confuse me saying I don't think the RX-8 has 238hp as an insult, it's not and I made this poll to get an idea of what owners and non owners alike think, not to determine if you like your car regardless of the HP. I'm assuming many of those people that voted they thought it had less hp still love their cars and will be keeping it regardless of the buyback.

It's like if I made a poll on what color something was and asked if it was more green, more blue, or more gray, then you chimes in with I don't care what color it is I like it. That's great and all but does that mean you can't have an oppinion on the matter?

As far as the you having more fun thing, think what you like. I love my WRX and would not trade it in for an RX-8 even though I like both cars. I like my car for my reasons you like your car for your reasons, maybe you're the one that needs to accept things since you're the one that seems pissed off in this post, not myself...

Lastly, by picking the last option in the poll you're reading into things that aren't there. I simply added it for people that have not been following the situation closely and don't know enough to have formed an oppinion. It's not like by voting for that you're saying "duuuuhhh, I don't know what horsepower is, duuuhhhh"



Ike

Originally posted by Blue 350z

But its making about 215-220HP (180ish to the wheels) which would result in exactly low 15's.

LOL!!! Yeah, 180-ish to the wheels on a dyno where the ECU is pulling timing and adding fuel to reduce power. Good lord, talk about ignoring the obvious - here you go again stating 180 to the wheels as if it's a fact, when it became dubious 2 weeks ago and now (today) is totally discredited. You'd better stop claiming to only state facts - you already lost any last shred of credibility you might have had when you thought bitumen was gravel, and to perversely ignore explicit information saying that RX-8 dyno runs are invalid is beyond stubborn.

Here's one simple question that you still refuse to answer - care to try answering this? For the RX-8 15.x drag runs that you claimed to have seen - did the drivers launch with a clutch drop from 8K rpm? (If not, then their time is not representative of what the car can achieve).

Regards,
Gordon

Someones a little obsessed with HP #'s for a car you don't even own. Do we ask stupid questions like for example : How many of you WRX owners think your WRX is an ugly piece of crap? How many of you believe the WRX is the ugliest car on the market? And I'm not trying to start a flame war, I'm just curious to see how many WRX owners think that their car is ugly. So why don't you just shut the fuck up with your stupid questions, get a life. Spending all your time on a rx8 forum just to start shit...YOU SIR ARE ONE IGNORANT MOTHA FUCKA!

aaaaahhhhh that feels good. Real good.

I finally found how to ignore certain people. Never had to use it before, but sure cleans up the board.

Originally posted by Tronics
Someones a little obsessed with HP #'s for a car you don't even own. Do we ask stupid questions like for example : How many of you WRX owners think your WRX is an ugly piece of crap? How many of you believe the WRX is the ugliest car on the market? And I'm not trying to start a flame war, I'm just curious to see how many WRX owners think that their car is ugly. So why don't you just shut the fuck up with your stupid questions, get a life. Spending all your time on a rx8 forum just to start shit...YOU SIR ARE ONE IGNORANT MOTHA FUCKA!

Don't like the poll, don't respond, no need to be an ass and try to provoke me. I think it's an interesting debate, if you don't then don't read the poll or threads on the issue.

did the drivers launch with a clutch drop from 8K rpm?

I've already posted the answer to this several times but of course Blue won't read that section because it proves him wrong. Of the THREE people to time at low 15's (huge data base I know), 2 of them launched at 6k rpm.

i really think it doesn't. Specially when the rating in Europe is lower and they don't have emission controls like here in the US !

Originally posted by Blue 350z


Sure i'll answer... Here's is my honest opinion.



One last question: are you finally convinced that most of us have a pretty nasty perception of you?

As I said before, this stopped being a car issue long time ago. Don't stop posting...please, keep doing so. But don't give us the impression that you have the ultimate 'word' That is perceived like what I said before (I won't repeat it)

If you have experience in drag racing, great! But don't try to preach anyone about 'facts' that are based in your OWN experience. Why? we don't know you, and icing the cake is how people feel and react to YOUR deductions based on 'facts.'

Go back to statistic analysis: we don't have a sample collection broad enough to derive in any 'facts' or universal laws that can be applied to the 8. I accept your conclusion that based on experience with other vehicles and times, it is to assume that the 8 won't reach X time, or does have X hp. However, those are assumptions based on statistics and data collected from disparate sources; which, while bound to the same elemental physic principles (and common sense) are affected by a wide array of factors (ie: traction control, weight, weather, mileage, gas, ecu, exhaust, product defect, etc.....)

Im just asking you, on a very polite manner, and with all my good faith: to look back, avoid stirring the pot, and chose your words wisely.

I think it's really interesting that people over the spectrum of the RX8 Forum were coming up with all of these off the wall rumors and theories about why the first deliveries of the 8 were delayed. Many who now defend the 8 no matter how many things are found and proven to be found are wrong were the same ones bashing Mazda before the car even came out. Unless every little comment on this forum is positive there are many who are quick to flame. The forum should cover all issues...not just the good ones and not just the opinions of those who will defend the car even if the engines start blowing at 20K. Let someone have a poll. In that poll you can voice all your positive comments including voting the way you want to influence a positive result. How is that negative?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Blue 350z


You have Aussie and RX8Lover to blame for my behavior, they did there best to piss me off and they succeeded even when all I was doing is giving input and facts. [/QUOTE


Why would you get pissed over a car Forum?

good point
its just a car forum

Originally posted by U. N. O.
i really think it doesn't. Specially when the rating in Europe is lower and they don't have emission controls like here in the US !

Europe has stricter emission regs than in the US. So why wouldnt they have emission controls?

Originally posted by Gord96BRG


LOL!!! Yeah, 180-ish to the wheels on a dyno where the ECU is pulling timing and adding fuel to reduce power. Good lord, talk about ignoring the obvious - here you go again stating 180 to the wheels as if it's a fact, when it became dubious 2 weeks ago and now (today) is totally discredited. You'd better stop claiming to only state facts - you already lost any last shred of credibility you might have had when you thought bitumen was gravel, and to perversely ignore explicit information saying that RX-8 dyno runs are invalid is beyond stubborn.

Here's one simple question that you still refuse to answer - care to try answering this? For the RX-8 15.x drag runs that you claimed to have seen - did the drivers launch with a clutch drop from 8K rpm? (If not, then their time is not representative of what the car can achieve).


Once again..

Whatever helps you sleep at night

Its not exactly rocket science driving a car down a track but you people act as if it is. When people run bad numbers all the excuses in the book come out such as (traction control, weight, weather, mileage, gas, ecu, exhaust, product defect, etc.....)

And a 2.16 is a good 60' and that run resulted in a 15.2@91.96 run.. But I guess hope is all you fella's got But eventually reality will set in.

Why don't you guys get off your collective asses and hit the 1/4? See what kind of numbers you come home with. I bet they will be nowhere near 14.5.

No matter how bad you launch you should come at least within .3-.4 of the target (and thats a really bad launch, like a 2.5+), you guys won't gain .7-.8 seconds simply from a 8k clutch drop.

I have completly bombed launches bogging and or totally smoldering the tires and even missed a gear in 115 degree track temps with high humidity and never ran worse then a 14.4@99!!

Hell, judging from the poll results I might as well have asked if you were a republican or democrat, talk about a divided community... Only difference is I think if this were a political forum the conversations would be much nicer :p

I agree with RX22. WHO THE F*** CARES!

You like? You buy. You don't like? Don't buy!

Originally posted by IkeWRX
Hell, judging from the poll results I might as well have asked if you were a republican or democrat, talk about a divided community... Only difference is I think if this were a political forum the conversations would be much nicer :p

im not too sure about that.

Originally posted by Blue 350z



And a 2.16 is a good 60' and that run resulted in a 15.2@91.96 run.. But I guess hope is all you fella's got But eventually reality will set in.



Once again, this is the ONLY argument you have. You always site this ONE run, and it is getting SOOOOOOO old. C'mon man, get a friggin life.

You are just so cool that you can get 14s even after missing a gear. I didn't realize we had Mario Andretti as a member of these forums.

Originally posted by kingcar


Europe has stricter emission regs than in the US. So why wouldnt they have emission controls?

not all around europe they don't. The only problem u might find is that in order to make any changes to a car, it must be "pre-approved" by the government all the way from ANY tipe of tintin to wheel width to engine alterations. But they don't care for emissions that much. I am from europe, I know.

Originally posted by U. N. O.
But they don't care for emissions that much. I am from europe, I know.

You must not have been there for a while, though - are you familiar with the EUC III and EUC IV emissions specs? EUC IV is as tough or tougher than the US specs.

Regards,
Gordon

Originally posted by RX8Lover

You are just so cool that you can get 14s even after missing a gear. I didn't realize we had Mario Andretti as a member of these forums.

Well now you know.. Now thats cleared up we can move on..


You mean to tell me that you HONESTLY think this person that ran a 15.16@91.96 with a 2.16 60' will run a 14.5 with a better launch and/or shift faster? You are the ones saying this run was the result of "poor driving". So do you honestly think that? That a 6000 launch vs a 8000 launch its worth .7?


If all was right with the car you should be running consistantly around 14.5-14.7 with the better launches netting closer to 14.5. You peole have no clue how to analyze timeslips

I can't wait till enough time goes by so I can say "I told ya so" :cool:

Originally posted by Gord96BRG


You must not have been there for a while, though - are you familiar with the EUC III and EUC IV emissions specs? EUC IV is as tough or tougher than the US specs.

Regards,
Gordon

well dear gordon i was there about 2 month ago plus i lved there ALL MY LIFE having to go and pass inspections to all of my father's vehicles of the company, trust me i know

Originally posted by Gord96BRG


You must not have been there for a while, though - are you familiar with the EUC III and EUC IV emissions specs? EUC IV is as tough or tougher than the US specs.

Regards,
Gordon


then again, i don't even care. i know what i know and i won't be going back and forth to discuss matters that people don't have real practical knowledge off, just what is written...

Originally posted by Blue 350z


Well now you know.. Now thats cleared up we can move on..


You mean to tell me that you HONESTLY think this person that ran a 15.16@91.96 with a 2.16 60' will run a 14.5 with a better launch and/or shift faster? You are the ones saying this run was the result of "poor driving". So do you honestly think that? That a 6000 launch vs a 8000 launch its worth .7?


If all was right with the car you should be running consistantly around 14.5-14.7 with the better launches netting closer to 14.5. You peole have no clue how to analyze timeslips

I can't wait till enough time goes by so I can say "I told ya so" :cool:


blue honestly man give it up. This is not the place to discuss these. Take it to the track ! is what i say. Althought i am with you that there are actually other cars outthere that can outrun the 8 (and the z being one of them) most of these people won't even ever use their 8 on such matter. It will be luck if they can pick up a quick "run" in an split of a long highway with some other punk driving a tricked civic ( i did an accord and got wipped) but anyways not that we should but thats reality. The 8 doesn't have the acceleration because it doesn't have the torque, add things/change things to get better torque/power, and you will be driving an emission ilegal car and in an state where i am it is not feassable.
So blue as i try to say it is not worth you discussing here since you don't have an 8 either and MOST people here will be bias as MOST people in the Z's forums will be bias against other of your competitors (note i don't consider the 8 a Z competitior). If you have some to ssy in regards of runs and stuff, just take pics of sheets or video clips and post (period). that will do, anything else is "extra" and even if you do that, you will get heat as you will be rubbing it against 8 owner at their "home". I LOVE the 8, i soon won't be owner of it and i will always stick by the 8 BUT i don't ignore the reality or try to cover it up as MANY do. Its just my choice...anyways knowing peps here, i will get heat so i will stop... why can we all just discuss, not argue?!!?

Originally posted by Blue 350z


Once again..

Whatever helps you sleep at night

Its not exactly rocket science driving a car down a track but you people act as if it is. When people run bad numbers all the excuses in the book come out such as (traction control, weight, weather, mileage, gas, ecu, exhaust, product defect, etc.....)

And a 2.16 is a good 60' and that run resulted in a 15.2@91.96 run.. But I guess hope is all you fella's got But eventually reality will set in.

Why don't you guys get off your collective asses and hit the 1/4? See what kind of numbers you come home with. I bet they will be nowhere near 14.5.

No matter how bad you launch you should come at least within .3-.4 of the target (and thats a really bad launch, like a 2.5+), you guys won't gain .7-.8 seconds simply from a 8k clutch drop.

I have completly bombed launches bogging and or totally smoldering the tires and even missed a gear in 115 degree track temps with high humidity and never ran worse then a 14.4@99!!

According to you, this thread should be a fake, right?
http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9081&highlight=time+slips

Originally posted by U. N. O.


well dear gordon i was there about 2 month ago plus i lved there ALL MY LIFE having to go and pass inspections to all of my father's vehicles of the company, trust me i know


We're not talking about past emissions regulations that were in place 5, 10, or 20 years ago. We're talking about the new EU-mandated emissions regulations that have been recently implemented, that have required compliance for new vehicles since 2000 (Euro III) and will get much tougher for 2005 (Euro IV).

So you're not aware of the revamping of the fuel refinery industries to be able to produce the low-sulphur gasoline and diesel fuels that will be required for the implementation of the Euro IV regulations in Jan 2005? You aren't aware of the new generation of diesel engines being developed specifically for these new regulations? You aren't aware that they can't even market these new diesel engines (nor even the gasoline engines using direct injection systems) in North America because the sulphur content in our fuel is too high?

Sorry, I don't mean to be rude (as you do), but the Euro III regulations went into effect in 2000, and are not quite as tough as the US regs (and there is no OBD requirement as in the US). The tougher Euro IV requirements come into effect in Jan 2005, and have required years of effort to upgrade the infrastructures and engine designs to be capable of meeting them. It doesn't really matter that you grew up there in the years before this legislation came into effect - the regulations are real, whether you know them or not. Why don't you do a search for Euro IV and start reading about all the changes that have been implemented or are in the works?

Even relevant to RX-8 - Mazda downgraded the rated HP for the European markets because they decided to implement Euro-IV emissions compliance now rather than in 1 year.

If you think that the EU doesn't care about emissions then you are very sadly out of touch.

Regards,
Gordon

Originally posted by RX8-TX


According to you, this thread should be a fake, right?
http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9081&highlight=time+slips

Do we have actual time slips of these runs? This post came from a person in which this was his ONLY post EVER and a blank profile. Also the 60' times do not correlate properly vs the 1/8th and the 1/4 ETs. Also gaining 24MPH in the 2nd 1/8 seems a bit hard to believe, I gain on average 21-23mph in my Z in the 2nd 1/8.

I am not saying this is a fake, I just find it VERY fishy if coming from a guy with 1 post and a blank profile and registered the day before the post, anybody could of posted that under a fake account to try to quite the nay sayers. And most cars that can gain 24mph in the 2nd 1/8 usually run high 13's not 15 flat (that peticualr run).

I'd probably believe this 99% if there was a scanned time slip, the MPH gain in the 2nd 1/8 is almost consistant with somebody with a small shot of NOS, people that gain 24mph in the 2nd 1/8 usually put up about 80-82mph in the first 1/8.

Man this forum is hostile!

I come from Is300.net and want to chime in on some of this....

All the people with the negative comments toward Blue 350Z need to chill. The guy knows what he is talking about and he has good points. All this smack talk is funny. Everyone needs to chill. We all love cars...sometimes things get heated.

A Stock IS300 5spd has 215 HP at the crank and 218 ft/lbs of torque. The car runs low 15's. Someone who is a member at IS300.net got a stock 5spd to run a 14.9, but he is a really good driver and now he has a Turbo IS300 beast.

The traps I am seeing with the RX-8 and the times are almost dead even with the IS300. The numbers are really close.

Now the IS weighs over 200 pounds more than the RX-8, but the torquey inline 6 helps the IS a little here.

This info shows the car is not making 238HP. It is making closer to 220. Or even 210 because of the weight difference between the IS and the RX-8.

Blue 350Z is correct in what he is saying. Instead of getting heated about it, just ignore the thread. I am sure other RX-8 owners would like know if their car is even shorter on HP than they believed.

Someone on this board with good driving skills needs to take their 8 to the track and settle this once and for all. This guy isnt showing any proof. All this could end with some proof.

Originally posted by RussellP
Someone on this board with good driving skills needs to take their 8 to the track and settle this once and for all. This guy isnt showing any proof. All this could end with some proof.

The big problem is that ONE person hitting the track ONCE (with a couple rundowns) will not suffice. We need several samples to come up with a valid, subjective (yes..I meant subjective,) opinion.

Originally posted by Norcal
Man this forum is hostile!

I come from Is300.net and want to chime in on some of this....

All the people with the negative comments toward Blue 350Z need to chill. The guy knows what he is talking about and he has good points. All this smack talk is funny. Everyone needs to chill. We all love cars...sometimes things get heated.

A Stock IS300 5spd has 215 HP at the crank and 218 ft/lbs of torque. The car runs low 15's. Someone who is a member at IS300.net got a stock 5spd to run a 14.9, but he is a really good driver and now he has a Turbo IS300 beast.

The traps I am seeing with the RX-8 and the times are almost dead even with the IS300. The numbers are really close.

Now the IS weighs over 200 pounds more than the RX-8, but the torquey inline 6 helps the IS a little here.

This info shows the car is not making 238HP. It is making closer to 220. Or even 210 because of the weight difference between the IS and the RX-8.

Blue 350Z is correct in what he is saying. Instead of getting heated about it, just ignore the thread. I am sure other RX-8 owners would like know if their car is even shorter on HP than they believed.

Blue 350Z could be correct about saying that today is Friday 26th, and there will be a lot of hostility anyways. Read back his posts, and replies. It is nothing new. Haven't you ever realized that what you say, and the way you say it might make some people's butts itch? And as you said, you just came in (BTW, welcome!!)

this forum isnt bad
its just this thread is heated

I don't know about anyone else but I'm a bit shocked by the results so far, I honestly thought that the majority of the people with the RX-8 would feel the car has 238 HP.

Ike

hehehehe
It's just a poll, dudes..

People are so sensitive!

Originally posted by IkeWRX
I don't know about anyone else but I'm a bit shocked by the results so far, I honestly thought that the majority of the people with the RX-8 would feel the car has 238 HP.

Ike

It only takes a few liars to skew a poll. There's no way to prove the people taking the poll OWN the 8, even though they claim they do. It's hardly a scientific measure of anything.

to me the car feels like its fast as @#$% but its my first sports car so i dont know. I didnt vote, but if i did id say it has it.

Originally posted by Elara


It only takes a few liars to skew a poll. There's no way to prove the people taking the poll OWN the 8, even though they claim they do. It's hardly a scientific measure of anything.

I don't recall saying it was... I just found the results interesting is all.

Ike

Gee, Ike, I feel left out... I wanted to vote, but you didn't include my category:


I feel the RX-8 has more than 238 hp and I own the car :D

Originally posted by khoney
Gee, Ike, I feel left out... I wanted to vote, but you didn't include my category:


I feel the RX-8 has more than 238 hp and I own the car :D

Hehe sorry, your vote is duely noted :D

Originally posted by Blue 350z


Sure i'll answer... Here's is my honest opinion.

Exterior:
Outside needs to grow on you, looks a bit bloated from the profile only because its an odd shape. But overall its an eye catching car and looks good from most angles. IMO the Altezza style rear lights look out of place and when a licence plate is attached to the front (Its the law here in MA) it makes the front look a bit funny.

Interior:
I this its a very nice interior, I always thought that Mazda had nice interior designs with good fit and finish. IMO it may be a bit overdone with all the rotary references in the one I looked into. But compared to my Z's interior its deffinatly of a higher quality but the style and design itself (just the looks of it) are i'd say equal to my Z.

Handeling:
I'm sure it handles very well since it has large tires and weights about 3000lbs. Low weight, good suspension and large tires = good handling.

Performance:
Here were it gets ugly to me. As a single guy with no family (don't car about a cushy ride and 4 seats/doors) I wanted a performace orentated car.

The RX8 suffers from a lack of torque (5-60 numbers tell the tale, nearly 8 seconds!). Now to make this issue worse Mazda steals HP from the USA models

I have NO DOUBT that the car would be pulling 14.5 times IF it had the full advertised 247HP (probably 205ish to the wheels). But its making about 215-220HP (180ish to the wheels) which would result in exactly low 15's. Deffinatly now slow, but the performance deffinatly does not measure up to what the aggressive looks would suggest.

Economy:
Not a big deal IMO, but I drive hard and do alot of city driving. I get 20-22MPG with hard driven city miles and 29-32 on the HWY. And when gas is $2 a gallon it adds up.

Looks and styling: 8 out of 10 (after you get over the strange proportions)

Performance: If it performed as origionally advertized a 8 out of 10. As it is now, 5 out of 10.

Everyday usefullness (if your looking for that kinda thing) 9/10 (if you don't count the low torque numbers (since adding more weight to the car.. passangers.. makes this worse and the sporty goes away and drives more like a sedan) and the bad MPG)

That is one of the Best and HONEST reduced bias description of the RX8 i have read on this forum. And coming from a 350z owner no less.

MOST people here understandably just flame on to satisfy their need to justify their RX8 purchase instead of discussing. Maybe they didnt do their research, maybe they baught into the 238-250hp ratings and jumped too early into the rx8. A lot of those people dont care that much about missing 25-30hp so they are still happy with the car, other are disapointed about the power but the overall package is still good enough for them, others return their rx8.

BUT most PROSPECTIVE Buyers are wary about the whole power and fuel consumtion issue. The resut is a LOT of people are just hanging around this forums to see if they can get some good quality information.

The same thing happened with the Acura RSX, it wouldnt break into the 14's easily Stock. Most people got 15.1-15.3 sec 1/4mile Stock. A LOT of people got flamed, lots of excuses, bad drivers etc etc. This rx8club seems like a rerun of clubRXS, its funny. Of course, the RSX is a cheaper car but still it generated a lot of controversy and people were complaing about 5-10hp if that. Then all changed when people started modding the RSX and HONDATA really saved the day with programming that allowed, with othe rmods, the rsx type s to get PAST the 200WHP mark! 215 wasnt uncommon! YES BETTER THAN Modded S2000!!

Maybe the aftermarket can save the RX8.

Its funny but most people accept the Miata as a good car even though it really lacks power and its a fact that has less power than advertised even after mazda rerated it.