Speed and power isn't everything, but if the only thing that matters here is handling. Then the RX-8 isn’t any different than an Acura RSX-s. Besides the RX-8’s distinctive styling what advantage will the RX-8 have over the Acura RSX? Rear Wheel Drive? The RX-8 needs high 5s or low 6 second zero-to-sixty times, and low 14 second quarter-mile times. If not, all the RX-8 will be is a great handling car. As we all know there are plenty of great handling cars out there already.

As nice as the Miata handles, it is definitely underpowered. I like for a car to be able to scare the crap out of me, every so often when I nail the throttle. The Miata will never do that. If the RX-8 is significantly slower than the G35 or the BMW 330, the only place that the RX-8 would shine is at Autocross events. Every where else it would get killed.

Flame Suit on!

thank you. no flame from me. i too would like this car to move out of its own way as well as be as quick or quicker than the cars you have mentioned.
edit : remember guys if this car fails to sell well because a bunch of car mags call it under powered there won't be any future for the rotary let alone another rx7

I just have trouble seeing a 250 hp car called underpowered. I admit that I don't know everything about cars, but 250 hp is around where the FD was. Everyone hailed that as one best sports cars ever out of Japan. I think that we'll be pretty happy! :D

oh dont get me wrong i think that 250 sounds great and think it will be just fine. but it is still just a number and we'll see when we drive it!

I just have trouble seeing a 250 hp car called underpowered.

250 HP should be fine. My 330i has 225hp and I love it. If the RX-8 is at least as fast as my 330i then I'm sold. It's just that the folks here feel that power isn't as important as handling. A fine handling car without power is just a toy. Power is what seperates the men from the boys.

Originally posted by Gaidin
I just have trouble seeing a 250 hp car called underpowered. I admit that I don't know everything about cars, but 250 hp is around where the FD was. Everyone hailed that as one best sports cars ever out of Japan. I think that we'll be pretty happy! :D
Unfortunately that was about 7 yrs ago.. HP levels have increased since then.. But I wouldn't worry, if the RX-8 is close to overall performance and "feel" with the S2000, the car mags will love it. :)

It's all about the entire package. The large variable missing above is weight. Another variable is the torque curve. You can have a 250hp car, but if you only get power above 6500rpms, tht car may feel lesy "perky" off the line around town, or force you to drop the clutch at 6500rpm to launch. If the car weighs 3500 pounds, the 250hp will not stop it from feeling portly.

A 120hp car that weighs 1600-1700 pounds can feel a lot faster. My shifter kart has 42hp, but it does 0-60 in under 4 seconds.

I want a car that has enough power to pin me back in the seat when I floor it, and has the handling to use that power and take the corners. So far, it looks like the RX-8 will have that. Or maybe it will be the Lotus Elise for me. Still not sure....

The RX-8 weighs in at 2970 lbs and is slated to have 250 horses and 162 ft lbs of torque to muscle around with. This should be enough gabanzas to compete competitively. But in reality we all know that the comparisons will be made, and that the RX-8 MUST compare favorably with the competition.

The competition is all portly by comparison, but still manage to move with spirit. Also, we must remember that as time passes on, cars are becoming more and more powerful while at the same time getting faster and faster and handling better and batter.

Mazda must compete with the other cars as well as with the progress that they make. So yes, 0-60 must be below 6 seconds, say 5.7 for the least. And tha 1/4 mile must be in the low 14's, maybe even in the high 13's.

As to the Lotus Elise, not for me thank you. I prefer a car that runs more than 50% of the time.

Originally posted by Rexman

As to the Lotus Elise, not for me thank you. I prefer a car that runs more than 50% of the time.

Cool. But you do understand that the new Elise will use a different drivetrain? It may be hard to predict how often the car will break down if the rumored drivetrain is the proven Toyota, since that combination has not been done in production yet.

Still, I do agree it will be a Lotus, so qualitywise it's not near the Mazda. The bulletproof nature of my Celica/MR2/Honda/Lexus is a large part of why I bought those cars.

That is one of the major trade offs for me. I am not a big fan of cars with "character"... but the Elise maybe the one car I will take that trade off for.

Originally posted by Rexman
The RX-8 weighs in at 2970 lbs... We still don't know for sure what the weight will end up being.

---jps

the point is that this car DOES have a pretty darned good engine, and it's not going to be embarrasingly slow...

I agree that the car must get good magazine reviews to compete. I'm not worried about that, though. Mazda always manages in that department.

I think Mazda will manage to sell a large percentage of RX-8's based on looks alone. It is completely original, and the general public that has seen the car seems to be crazy over the doors and interior. I showed the car to two of my friends, and now they both are hooked on getting one also. They could care less about power or handling, they just want the style.

it's true, you can't count out the joe-blow factor... ;)

Originally posted by Red Devil
I showed the car to two of my friends, and now they both are hooked on getting one also. They could care less about power or handling, they just want the style.


So basically your friends like cars that are all “Show” and no “Go”? If it's all about style then the RX-8 will end up being about as significant as a PT-Cruiser or a VW-Beatle. Without any serious performance the RX-8 will be nothing more than a “Mazda Bug”. They want a car that looks fast but isn’t?

I’m glad that Mazda actually decided to give the RX-8 power and not turn it into a poseur. I would not like for my car to look sporty like a Porsche but perform like a 626. Beauty is only skin deep, once you get used to the look there has to be more there to keep me interested. Looks aren’t everything buddy.

Low weight is the cornerstone of every performance vehicle. It makes everything easier. Accelerating, Braking, Turning and even fuel economy. You can even spring the car with lighter springs (to make it ride well) and go with firm compression and rebound damping to provide a "firm" feel.

The Z gets to 60 in 5.4 (C&D) so the RX8 should run similar times with advantages in every other performance category.

You'll have to work the rotary harder, but, IMHO, that is the allure of the RX8.

Ciao,

Don

The RX-8 is going to blow away everything in it's price range, as a total pacakge. Assuming everything we know so far is true...

Compared to a BMW 330 ($35k), the 8 is lighter, more powerfull, and better handler.

Compared to a Audi S4 Qudro ($38k), the 8 is MUCH lighter (1k lbs.), same power, and handles better (if it's not raining)

Compared to 350z, the 8 is lighter, has nearly identical power to weight ratio, handles better ( 350z gets rated as average handler car for sloppy feel and nose heavy.) Autoweek said the RX-8 has BWM/Audi build quality, 350z has a cheap interior. Plus has 2 more seats =)

The power to weight ratio is as good as anything under $40k. It supposedly handles BETTER then a 3rd gen RX-7, which is one of the best handling cars every made, with a real race car feel. A lot of cars can be called 'Good Handliers', but not in that league.

Originally posted by Spoonie
So basically your friends like cars that are all “Show” and no “Go”? If it's all about style then the RX-8 will end up being about as significant as a PT-Cruiser or a VW-Beatle.
Why can't "Show" and "Go" both be available in one car. I think the S2000 has it, and I think that the RX-8 will have it, which is why I like them. I think that 5-10 years ago the Miata was a great show+go car, but it's new competitors have a little more go nowadays.

Personally, not having driven an RX-8 and knowing nothing about Mazda or rotaries until recently, I was attracted to the RX-8 purely on looks alone (exterior and especially interior). This kept me interested enough to learn more about the technology and philosophy behind the vehicle, which is pretty amazing and got me to 'committing' to the car without a test-drive. I hear the BMW M-Coupe is an amazing "Go" car but I will never desire one as it looks like a shoe IMHO. I want "Show" and "Go" and "Quality" all for $30k...

let's not also forget that "show" is oft a byproduct of an inherently "go"ey design: case and point, any sexy sports car you can think of. they look good, because they look like they're fast, and they're fast because their design allows them to (and we think that's "good").

ya, i know the motor counts for a lot, and the 8 has a good one, one that will always have a special place in my heart for the truly amazing things i witness in life. anyhoo, this car looks good because it was designed to go quickly, not really really tear-your-hair-out-by-the-roots-acceleration quick, but still wow-that's-pretty-darned-quick-for-a-four-seater quick... so it's alright to just like the way the car looks... Mazda's not abandoned the fundmental philosophy of making it very very very sporty.

Comparing the RX-8 to the PT Cruiser or VW Bug seems rash.

The RX-8 will be considered a performance car in every respect. It will be both "show" and "go." My two friends are from the sect that want it only for show. They will never autocross or race, they simply like the way it looks. Thousands of people buy Porsches and Corvettes because of their looks and brand name, not their performance. I believe the RX-8 will fall into the same category. And no one can honestly claim either the Porsche or Corvette as not being performance machines.

Pelucidor's interest is exactly the market I'm referring to. The "joe-blow factor" at work. And Mazda will need every "joe-blow" they can get.

It's easy to say it compares favorably to everything when it isn't here yet. The worst mistake a car-maker can do when bringing out a new model is set the expectations too high.

Reallisticly, it will not be as nice inside as a BMW or Audi. It will not be as quick as a 350z. It will not handle better than a 3rd gen. Those are not realistic expectations for this car. I'm just hoping it has enough of the all-around characteristics at the right price point to make it the car I want in my garage.

Originally posted by Macabre
It's easy to say it compares favorably to everything when it isn't here yet. The worst mistake a car-maker can do when bringing out a new model is set the expectations too high.

Reallisticly, it will not be as nice inside as a BMW or Audi. It will not be as quick as a 350z. It will not handle better than a 3rd gen. Those are not realistic expectations for this car. I'm just hoping it has enough of the all-around characteristics at the right price point to make it the car I want in my garage.
I don't see how you make YOUR assumptions..

I am hoping that it will out handle the 3rd gen, will have a nice interior (not as nice as Audi's but maybe BMWs), and might be just as fast as the 350Z.

I don't see how that's unrealistic.

It will not handle better than a 3rd gen.
ask the people who saw the vid at the sevenstock dinner about that:D

The 3rd gen RX-7 pulled .95gs stock and ran a very quick slalom. The RX-8 isn't likely to be in the same league, mostly because it won't be as light and no doubt will be much more softly sprung. It's nice to embrace parts of the Autoweek article (the comments on feel and handling) and ignore other parts (weighing 2970lbs), but not a good idea if you don't want to be disappointed when the final specs come out. I'm sure it will handle very well, almost surely better than a 3-series or A4, but this is not a raw sports car. It's a sports sedan to appeal to the masses. If a new RX-7 is released, that will be your raw sports car, and I'm sure will live up to it's predecessors' legacy. If you want to go on thinking it will be an exotic sports car for the next few months 'till it's out, I won't try to stop you :)

Performance to dollar ratio: That's what it's mostly about. For me, I have to justify paying 4 to 5 grand more than an RSX type s. So overall performance--to definitely include straight line performance--is important. The overall package is definitely there in the RX-8. Sure you could get a Mustang, Camaro, or WRX that may be able slightly outgun a RX-8 at the stoplights (even though it will probably come down to the driver), but do you think any of them look as good as an RX-8? Do you think any of them will be able to outhandle a RX-8? What about reliability of the competition? Combine that with the functionality of the RX-8 and you have a winner. Bragging rights are definitely important and in order for the RX-8 to be really successful, it has to outshine the competition in more than just handling. It has to topple the big guns like BMW, Mercedes, and Audi (the G35 did it to the 330ci in the most recent issue of Automobile).

I remember about 15 years ago the RX-7 was called the "poor man's Porsche", maybe the RX-8 could be considered a "poor man's M3", considering the expected level of performance of this car.

Originally posted by rxtreme
Performance to dollar ratio: That's what it's mostly about. For me, I have to justify paying 4 to 5 grand more than an RSX type s. So overall performance--to definitely include straight line performance--is important. The overall package is definitely there in the RX-8. Sure you could get a Mustang, Camaro, or WRX that may be able slightly outgun a RX-8 at the stoplights (even though it will probably come down to the driver), but do you think any of them look as good as an RX-8? Do you think any of them will be able to outhandle a RX-8? What about reliability of the competition? Combine that with the functionality of the RX-8 and you have a winner. Bragging rights are definitely important and in order for the RX-8 to be really successful, it has to outshine the competition in more than just handling. It has to topple the big guns like BMW, Mercedes, and Audi (the G35 did it to the 330ci in the most recent issue of Automobile).

I remember about 15 years ago the RX-7 was called the "poor man's Porsche", maybe the RX-8 could be considered a "poor man's M3", considering the expected level of performance of this car.
Yea I'm sure that the "Automobile" publishers sold a few more mags with articles saying that a car beat the 3 series...

I've driven the G35 and it doesn't come close to the 3 series.. regardless of what magazines say. For the money though, the G35 is great, but it's not in the same league as the 3 series.. too cheezy and it's a tad bulky for that market. It's just the price that helps the G35.

Originally posted by rxtreme
It has to topple the big guns like BMW, Mercedes, and Audi (the G35 did it to the 330ci in the most recent issue of Automobile).

You must have read a different article. The Article never said that the G35 Coupe is a better car than the 330ci. The G35 Coupe has 55 more horsepower than the 330ci but was unable to score a better 0-60 time than the BMW. What if the BMW had 280 hp? The G35 isn’t in the same league as BMW. The center console plastic looks and feels cheap. Remember the old “Emerson” stereos? Thats what the center console of the G35 reminds me of. The G35 is nice but it isn’t better than a BMW regardless of what the G35 fans say. At least the G35 has more substance than an IS300. Remember the IS300? The IS300 was the last car to be labeled “BMW beater”. Which we all know was a Crock.

I don't think Nissan has ever been good at putting power to the wheels. The 300hp, 300ZX TT, only put 230 to the pavement. To relate that to Mazda, the last RX-7 may have had 255hp, but I saw a completely factory car dyno at 233hp. All I'm saying is that the Z's 287hp/274 torque isn't that impressive. I think the RX-8 will have simialr dyno runs with the 250hp engine.

It will be competitive with the Z, and I think substantially better than the G35 in both acceleration and handling.

I have owned my RSX Type S for over 1 year now. It is a fantastic car and I LOVE driving it. But the RX-8 will surely eat my RSX alive in every meaningful category. While my RSX is a very sporty car, the RX-8 makes it look like a Civic by comparison. The RX-8 has everything right, including more power, correct wheel drive, better handling, better tires, more space,etc. Only thing the RSX will be better is price and weight (about 200lbs).

The RSX is a great car, but as an owner, I must say the RX-8 is a whole different, and better, beast.

All I'm saying is that this thread started by saying is the RX-8 fast enough in a straight line. My response was meant to say, for the price we think the RX-8 will be, and the expected performance, it will be more than fast enough. It's performance to dollar ratio will be excellent. Spoonie compared it to a RSX, I tried to explain that you will probably get much more of a car for the extra 4 to 5 thousand dollars. The RSX is an excellent deal for the price, but the RX-8 will be worth the extra 5 grand for sure.

I used the G35 vs. BMW 330ci as an example of the type of comparisons and reviews that we can expect when the RX-8 arrives. I'm sure other forums will flame the RX-8 if it topples a BMW or Audi or Nissan/Infinity, but that's just how it is. Since Japonese auto makers seem to be bringing back more spirited sports cars, many of them have there goals aimed high: Produce an affordable sports car that can compete with some of the best coming from Europe. It has to be that way. Mazda has to outclass the competition costing thousands more in order to compete. That is the only way Mazda will be able to compete with some of the competitions "status" factor.

Notice also how we don't see as much talk or cross shopping a RX-8 to a Camaro or Mustang even though straight line performance will likely be similiar.

I'll accept comparison's to the Cobra. Anything else either Mustang GT or Camaro Z28 makes me cringe at the thought of a comparison. Besides, the next Camaro is supposed to be retrofitted like the new Thunderbird anyway.

Well, you're the first I've heard to compare the RX-8 to a Cobra Mustang. Most compare it to Japanese or European cars.

Ford thinks the new 390hp, fully independent Cobra is every bit as good as a M3. And according to initial performance results it is in both acceleration and handling.

Originally posted by Red Devil
Ford thinks the new 390hp, fully independent Cobra is every bit as good as a M3. And according to initial performance results it is in both acceleration and handling. Accelleration I can believe but M3 has superb handling... I don't think Americans have yet reached a plateau where they can say that but I'll wait for the magazines :)

Hmmm... Last time I checked BMW was still producing M3's due to high demand.. Unlike the Cobra which is halted as of now. :rolleyes:
http://www.bonforums.com/mustang/cobra_03prodstopped102902.htm

Ford is obviously in severe financial troubles, thus haulting production of the Cobra. The Cobra I was referring to, however, is not yet in production and I believe was designated a 2004 model. I have a magazine that tested the car, I'll try to find it to give more details of what I read.

Let us not forget about the plethora of BLOWN M3 engines. I don't think reliability and BMW are two words that belong in the same sentence. This is even worse when you consider the price difference between Fords and BWMs.

Is it the fault of BMW or the people that own them?

Originally posted by KrisA
Let us not forget about the plethora of BLOWN M3 engines. I don't think reliability and BMW are two words that belong in the same sentence. This is even worse when you consider the price difference between Fords and BWMs.


plethora? you mean a little over 100?

You might say that E46 M3 (S54) has a problem but to say that BMW in general in not reliable is a bad assumption.

My current commute car is at 123K and still running strong.

My friend 1990 525i hit 215K the other week.

My highschool friends 1978 320i had 320K when he sold it. Never been rebuilt!

Originally posted by KrisA
Let us not forget about the plethora of BLOWN M3 engines. I don't think reliability and BMW are two words that belong in the same sentence. This is even worse when you consider the price difference between Fords and BWMs. Plethora?

Those engines were made during a TWO MONTH PERIOD. Those that had them got them replaced or fixed. BMW acknowledges the fault, and the people that had the engines well you know how it goes... those that like to complain, do so loudly.

That's why the RX-7 got a bad rep too, as a minority of engines did go (because they weren't properly cared for, and because of turbos), so now the RX-7 is stuck with that image. It wasn't THAT bad though.

Braking first and foremost, then cornering, then accelerating.

Big brakes, with good cooling (Brake are all about balance. Heat generation versus dissipation)

50/50 front/rear weight distribution + rear axle drive + asymmetric width tires. Controlled oversteer when needed, Near neutral/slight understeer during off power handling (emergency evasion)

F/m=A Low drag (aerodynamic, rolling resistance) high efficiency drivetrain (1:1 fifth gear. power does not flow through a gear mesh) Good traction--high friction tires

Originally posted by Hercules
That's why the RX-7 got a bad rep too, as a minority of engines did go (because they weren't properly cared for, and because of turbos), so now the RX-7 is stuck with that image. It wasn't THAT bad though.

You're kidding, right? :confused:

I was shopping for a 3rd gen not too long ago. Must have looked at a dozen in the 60-100k mile range, every single one had been rebuilt at least once. That engine was just too complicated for its own good.

Can't find the article on the new Cobra, eventually I'll find it.

In my opinion, the FD engine's sequential set up was too much. I've said before that I had problems, but that was more based on my penchant to try and upgrade the car. My parent's neighbor, also had an FD. He was the one that sold me on rotary's when I got my FC. Anyway, I digress, this guy is so good mechanically that he built his own plane and flys it every weekend. He took perfect care of his car and the engine blew up right after the factory warrranty expired. The dealer sold both Mazda's and BMW's, and ended up making an even swap for his FD in exchange for a M3 with very little money down.

On the other hand, I have seen FD's that were over 100K miles and still were on the first engine. Makes me think they were almost luck of the draw.

Hey, if anything, I wouldn't mind a little less HP. Maybe 225 or 230. Just enough so I can kick the crap out of those kids Driving Prelude SR's. With their 200 hp. Actually, even 210 would do it, cause the 8 would be lighter.

Originally posted by ilovepotatos
Hey, if anything, I wouldn't mind a little less HP. Maybe 225 or 230. Just enough so I can kick the crap out of those kids Driving Prelude SR's. With their 200 hp. Actually, even 210 would do it, cause the 8 would be lighter. Depends on gearing really..

Besides, if you REALLY wanna embarrass them... get into like a Protege or something severely underpowered, and take em to a road course. Then beat their time by 2 seconds because 99% of those people don't know how to drive.

See the look on their faces then when the teeny Protege with 140 someodd horses beats the Preludes.. ahahahahahaha.

I'm not going to be going around the track in this thing. I'll be taking turns in the road fast, but thats about it. I will be dragging in this beauty, and that's okay. Not everyone likes to race around the track. It's just that, I wanna go fast with someone else in the car, so that way I don't die alone. jk

If you want to be successful in drag racing without breaking the bank, this is not the right car for you.

Originally posted by ilovepotatos
Hey, if anything, I wouldn't mind a little less HP. Maybe 225 or 230. Just enough so I can kick the crap out of those kids Driving Prelude SR's. With their 200 hp. Actually, even 210 would do it, cause the 8 would be lighter.
The SR models had 160hp. The SR-V had 190. Latest gen Preludes like mine had 195 and then 200, in the manual. Ignorance is not bliss. :p

On a track with "regular" drivers like us hp isn't really an issue.. Suspension, tires and driver skill. For example on our last lapping day I was pushing a Pontiac Firebird, Viper :eek: , NSX :eek: Camaro. But a guy in a VW GTi was on my butt with a couple of other "underpowered" cars..
There was one guy with a "serious" looking civic.. Lowered, cage, looked all business from the outside and inside. Licence plate said my gokart. On the track he was terrible, he was holding me up the whole time.. Moral is, driver skill is the most important thing. That's why I don't really care that the 350Z has x hp and another car has this much, etc. Those numbers are only important to immature stop light racers.

Originally posted by Quick_lude

The SR models had 160hp. The SR-V had 190. Latest gen Preludes like mine had 195 and then 200, in the manual. Ignorance is not bliss. :p

On a track with "regular" drivers like us hp isn't really an issue.. Suspension, tires and driver skill. For example on our last lapping day I was pushing a Pontiac Firebird, Viper :eek: , NSX :eek: Camaro. But a guy in a VW GTi was on my butt with a couple of other "underpowered" cars..
There was one guy with a "serious" looking civic.. Lowered, cage, looked all business from the outside and inside. Licence plate said my gokart. On the track he was terrible, he was holding me up the whole time.. Moral is, driver skill is the most important thing. That's why I don't really care that the 350Z has x hp and another car has this much, etc. Those numbers are only important to immature stop light racers.
Amen! Preach it brotha :)

So what. I like light racing. I feel offended and would like an apology. jk

Originally posted by ilovepotatos
So what. I like light racing. I feel offended and would like an apology. jk
I wouldn't give you an apology :P

Good thing you're joking or I might have to hurt feelings! :D

I understand and completely applaud the RX-8's role as an astonishing handling car. I look forward to the back roads that I will devour behind the wheel of this car. But I must say that the people who say that they sometimes wish to drag off the line, I cannot disagree with. I want the RX-8 to handle well, but if some Civic or souped up Prelude pulls up alongside me at the light, I want to be able to beat him. I dont want to be shouting, from behind him, "This would be different at the track!!" I dunno, doesnt seem that cool if you say that while you are losing.:rolleyes:

Originally posted by tallguylehigh
I understand and completely applaud the RX-8's role as an astonishing handling car. I look forward to the back roads that I will devour behind the wheel of this car. But I must say that the people who say that they sometimes wish to drag off the line, I cannot disagree with. I want the RX-8 to handle well, but if some Civic or souped up Prelude pulls up alongside me at the light, I want to be able to beat him. I dont want to be shouting, from behind him, "This would be different at the track!!" I dunno, doesnt seem that cool if you say that while you are losing.:rolleyes:
Just rev up the engine and give the ricer a good stare.. then when the light turns, don't move. Let him fly off.

Then you laugh and watch him get a ticket for reckless driving :)

Yeah, but they you'd be ghey.

Originally posted by ilovepotatos
Yeah, but they you'd be ghey.
Perhaps, but I never cared what ricers thought anyway.

Yeah, but still. You rev up then let him leave? I mean, come on.

Originally posted by ilovepotatos
Yeah, but still. You rev up then let him leave? I mean, come on.

Not getting into that one... IMHO if you rev it to 9K he might think twice anyway...

I will not let some guy in a civic blow by me

Personaly, I can't wait to hear the sound of RX-8 running while standing still or driving at any speed ;)

... now in my stern fatherly voice (oh who am I kidding): "let's stop and think about this ... before someone gets hurt!"

:D

Originally posted by bwayout
Personaly, I can't wait to hear the sound of RX-8 running while standing still or driving at any speed ;)

...
:D

If it sounds like a standard UK RX-7 then you probably won't hear it at all until it gets going... then there is sure to be a nice battlecry...

Originally posted by ilovepotatos
I will not let some guy in a civic blow by me

Why not...

There is a thing about knowing that you have that kind of power/speed that means that you don't HAVE to prove it all the time....

If you refuse to race somone you are making a statement that you don't even concider them to be in the same league... it's all very well to race cars off lights when you've got some POS that doesn't go very fast... but even my friend who's a speed freak buying custom TVR's accepts that you can't race too much with seriously quick cars since it's just too dangerous... his car is _Almost_ sub 3.0 seconds 0-60.

All in all, take a more mature attitude, and invite them to meet you at a track if they think they have what it takes.

I understand about wreckless driving, but that is a bit of a stretch. I'm not talking about a designated race road with on a race night. I'm talking there's a 2 lane road at the light and 30 yards after the light it turns into a one lane. And who said anything about a ricer? What if it is some guy in his BMW 3 series or something else. Ricers aren't the only guys that want to drag from a stoplight, even if its just for 60 feet. All I'm saying is I want to beat that guy before the road goes from two lane to one. :D

okay, tallguylehigh, that IS reckless driving... quite boneheaded, in fact. i'm all for going quickly: ya, it pisses me off when the guy in front of me is doing the speed limit, and ya, i love to corner with the tyres moaning a bit, but that IS just stupid!! sure, it's all fine when you can kill a guy no problem, but what if you don't?? and what if, what if, what if?? ending up with a wrecked car (or worse in a longer race... you know all those crash tests they show on tv that completely destroy the STRONGEST parts of the car?? those are at city speed limits, friend... think about what would happen if you loose control at ONLY 60 mph and hit a lamp post...) because neither driver wanted to yeild is fuckin' stupid, pardon my language, but it IS...

now, fellahs, don't be too hard on potatohead, he's 15 and a sportsman... just eager to prove to the world how great the 8 is ;)
but, street racing is about as dumb as dumb can be... foolin' around with your bud in a parking lot?? hey, whatever... racing with some idiot, who you don't know and wants to beat you because he's lackin' in the penile region, is retarded...
that's all i'm gonna say, i can't read this thread anymore...

**edit: DON"T TAKE THIS THE WRONG WAY!! i'm not trying to make enemies here, but i won't apologize for toes i step on when i say that street racing is dumb... i'm not trying to say any person in particular is wholly a bad/stupid person because they do that, i just think it's a really bad idea...

Originally posted by ilovepotatos
I will not let some guy in a civic blow by me

Maybe you should, unless you're looking forward to hospital bills (for yourself) and prison time (for the person you hurt).

Ok, I recognize that what I said may have been a bit wreckless. I am not going to be stupid and my pride in winning does not overshadow my desire to keep my car in one piece, this is all getting blown out of proportion. I guess to put it as simply and as innocently as possible, I want the car to have some get up and go. When I need power I want it there, that is all I am saying. Use it as you wish, from a stoplight or on a back mountain road. Whew! Glad that's over with.

Originally posted by tallguylehigh
I understand about wreckless driving, but that is a bit of a stretch. I'm not talking about a designated race road with on a race night. I'm talking there's a 2 lane road at the light and 30 yards after the light it turns into a one lane. All I'm saying is I want to beat that guy before the road goes from two lane to one. :D
Actually the ironic thing is the "designated" races in remote areas in the middle of the night are much safer for the "general public".. It's the impromptu races at traffic lights for the upcoming 100 metres that usually end up with innocent people hurt. I'd rather see police let the night racing go on.. As long as only the participants are at risk fine, everyone makes a choice to do something risky for fun at least once in their life..

I think the "don't care" attitude comes with maturity.. I don't street race and couldn't give a rats ass if a ricer in a souped up civic or a yuppie in an BMW can beat me in a straight line race. Straight line racing is mostly the car.. It's the track with turns that seperates the men from the boys.. And to me all those people that think they are so great street racing are just that ... boys.

Now that said, if Mazda decided to give RX-8 300hp I would not say no.. :D

Originally posted by Quick_lude

Actually the ironic thing is the "designated" races in remote areas in the middle of the night are much safer for the "general public".. It's the impromptu races at traffic lights for the upcoming 100 metres that usually end up with innocent people hurt. I'd rather see police let the night racing go on.. As long as only the participants are at risk fine, everyone makes a choice to do something risky for fun at least once in their life..

I think the "don't care" attitude comes with maturity.. I don't street race and couldn't give a rats ass if a ricer in a souped up civic or a yuppie in an BMW can beat me in a straight line race. Straight line racing is mostly the car.. It's the track with turns that seperates the men from the boys.. And to me all those people that think they are so great street racing are just that ... boys.

Now that said, if Mazda decided to give RX-8 300hp I would not say no.. :D
"men from the boys"... good line :)

Makes a very good point, as I really have little to no care for straight line racing. In fact, I don't even care about track racing. I just care about getting a car that will let me have my fun!

The thing is, going over the speed limit on the streets is free...

Originally posted by ilovepotatos
The thing is, going over the speed limit on the streets is free...

That is by no means certain... it might cost you dearly.

Yeah, but there are some straightaways that don't have any ajoining roads, they'll be pretty safe to go on, I'll only do it when the weather conditions are good, by the way.

Originally posted by ilovepotatos
Yeah, but there are some straightaways that don't have any ajoining roads, they'll be pretty safe to go on, I'll only do it when the weather conditions are good, by the way.
I've gotten my Millenia up to 110, nothing thrilling in it.

Now trying to control a car at 80 mph around a curve, letting the rear and slide and countersteering... not only fun but requires a bit of skill :)

That does sound like fun, and I'd much rather do that, but theres no place I can do that! I can't just do that on a normal road, cause then if I took the corner wrong and spun my tail out, I'd smash my rear into someone coming along the other way...:(

Originally posted by ilovepotatos
That does sound like fun, and I'd much rather do that, but theres no place I can do that! I can't just do that on a normal road, cause then if I took the corner wrong and spun my tail out, I'd smash my rear into someone coming along the other way...:( You don't need to go 80 to have fun.

You can go 35 or 40 and have a BLAST! Two words though:

Parking lot :)

Would it be better if the lot was wet?

Originally posted by ilovepotatos
Would it be better if the lot was wet?

Don't know if Herc is referring to an organised circuit in a lot, but I've done some practising in a deserted lot.

Depends what you want, but probably yes... wet is better, then you can learn while going slower... but make SURE that it's deserted as I've had a few store owners call the police while I've been doing that.

For ultimate fun, I'd recommend about half and inch of snow... but that's another story... and make SURE it's a BIG lot... I spent hours practising skid control last time it snowed here.

Plus if it was wet then the tires wouldn't go bald

Originally posted by ilovepotatos
Would it be better if the lot was wet?
Better isn't a word I'd use...

Fun is :)

Blue's right though, just be careful about people... something deserted and out of the way is best (there's one not too far from my house, so I'm happy).

You can practice skid control by slamming the car hard into a turn (need maybe 40 mph for that, tops), seeing where your car loses grip, or where your car tends to understeer... and by playing with these formulas you'll learn your car's limits.

However having learned my car's limits some time ago, I now just 'beat' on it, doing reverse 180s, 180s, 90 degree handbrake turns and when it's wet, I try a 360.. I never have enough road though... I need a long empty, WIDE lane to do it.. and about 70mph :)

I highly recommend playing with your car in a way that is more controlled and safe. It's almost impossible to guarantee what other drivers on the road do, and if you push it too far, or find that there was a wet patch on the street...or some sand... or whatever.... the penalty for error can be very great.

We read too many threads at forums about the guy who pushed it too hard and ran out of talent or was unlucky. And locally, we read about too many deaths from street racing.

Take the car to a track. Attend driving schools. Go to autocrosses. And if you have to push it on the street, do it as safe as you can. Going 10/10ths on the street is stupid. Back off and live to become old enough to understand how fleeting life can be.
[soapbox]

Hwy on ramps. You can only hurt yourself or your car. How far are you willing to go?
I really don't see a thrill in a stop light "race" to 100km/hr... Because if I would straight line race then I gotta go at least a 1/4 mile which in my car is about 150 km/hr and I will NEVER do that speed on a regular street.. I know a lot of people, especially younger kids might not understand how I just don't care... but I really don't. Your car can beat mine by one car length to the 1/4? Good for you, enjoy. I just don't see the thrill in a street race "kill story".. shrug..
Now if we're talking about how I was passing AWD Subarus on a rainy lapping day, that is a whole new ballgame. :D

Originally posted by Quick_lude
Hwy on ramps. You can only hurt yourself or your car. How far are you willing to go?
I really don't see a thrill in a stop light "race" to 100km/hr... Because if I would straight line race then I gotta go at least a 1/4 mile which in my car is about 150 km/hr and I will NEVER do that speed on a regular street.. I know a lot of people, especially younger kids might not understand how I just don't care... but I really don't. Your car can beat mine by one car length to the 1/4? Good for you, enjoy. I just don't see the thrill in a street race "kill story".. shrug..
Now if we're talking about how I was passing AWD Subarus on a rainy lapping day, that is a whole new ballgame. :D
I don't see the thrill in any drag racing, as many have said it's a question of tires and car. Once you've found the magic launch RPM the driver skill is very minimal.

AutoXing is the best way to show your stuff... there are times and if you can beat your OWN time then you will be thrilled. Forget about the other people on the road, they are sheep :D

Drag racing is fun, when you have a 13 second minivan! (http://pages.cthome.net/gus/mini.html) :D :D :D

Originally posted by fuz
Drag racing is fun, when you have a 13 second minivan! (http://pages.cthome.net/gus/mini.html) :D :D :D That is really disturbing :)

I'm about to be somewhat philosophical, but bare with me...

All this talk about racing is more about male bravado and ego than anything else. Beating the idiot next to you when you're sixteen is almost like a right of passage. Everyone, whether they will admit it or not, has street raced.

Evenetually, most people learn that passing up on a street race doesn't make you "gay." I don't need to prove I'm a man by beating the guy next to me in a Civic or Camaro etc... Instead, I'll make the right hand turn, head to my girlfriend's place and spend the night with her. And that's all the male bravado I need.

(disclaimer: My use of the word "gay" was not meant to insult anyone. Anyone's sexual preference is their own business, and I mean to offend no one either straight or gay.)

Totally agree.. that's why I said before it's a question of maturity.. and not necessairly age. Some people never grow up.