pgtr

Suggestion: Consistent/Equitable Treatment of Rx8 Comparisons

In improving the forum/website for everyone I suggest moderation be improved with a goal of objectivity and equal treatment for all members and participants.

At present there 'appears' to be a double standard or perhaps no particular standard at all being applied to the many Rx8 comparison threads (e.g. RX8 vs 'XXX').

Some threads such as this one: Anybody considered a C5 Cpe vs Rx8? are moved from Rx8 Discussion to General Automotive in minutes.

But one example of seemingly countless other RX8 comparison threads, RX8 or 350Z on the other hand is placed in the Rx8 Discussion section indefinately.

Both these threads and countless others are comparative analysis of Rx8s with respect to other makes/models for the purpose of everything from bench racing to buying decisions. Some are good comparisons, some are unrealistic and yes some are repetitive. To the best of my knowledge there is absolutely no standard or rationale that can discriminate against one Rx8 vs 'XXX' thread and another. One moderator cited that the C5 thread specifically contained 'no Rx8 data or content' (Rx8, 350Z & C5 doube-standard?). FIRST that is false - it DID contain Rx8 references. SECONDLY the whole point of the thread was to seek additional comparative information on BOTH cars particularly the Rx8! - Now that the this specific discussion of Rx8 vs C5 is not being allowed in the Rx8 Discussion section by it's moderator(s) and moved to General Automotive - what are the odds it will get additional substantive Rx8 content now? I submit it's not likely!

Most participants don't intentionally try to break any rules, de facto or otherwise. And most registrants don't wish to post threads in inappropriate sections where their posts are unwelcome. And most folks can understand the need for moderation for moving posts in incorrect sections as there's a lot of 'noise' on a popular board. But when one reads the Rx8 Discussion section and sees so many threads w/ the Rx8 vs 'XXX' theme and many many other Rx8 'comparisons' to others it only seems logical than an 'Rx8 vs C5' thread belongs there as well.

Yes, a double-standard 'appears' to exist or being applied based on these observable facts as to moderator actions.

Yes, it can be EASILY fixed per my suggestion: Either allow ALL Rx8 'comparison' threads in the 'Rx8 Discussion' section or don't allow ANY. However Arbitrarily moving 'some' and allowing 'others' to remain is not being objective, fair or consistent and THAT I strongly object to. All I suggest is that all posts be treated fairly and consistently NOT arbitrarily. Or at the very least provide some clear guidance as to what cars can be compared to Rx8s and/or how they may be compared to Rx8s in the Rx8 Disccusion.

Thanks for considering my suggestion for improvement.

pgtr

Yep! that would work too!

Elara

Perhaps, if you had 1)contacted a moderator privately, asked if there had been a mistake, 2)listed your points politely, or even 3) used the "report post" button to ask if something was missed, you would have more credibility.

Instead, in what appears to be an effort to embarass/shame someone (me, I guess this would be directed at, since I'm the one that moved it), you have come across extremely rudely. There was no reason to post this in such an antagonistic manner.

I already explained that I made a judgement call(which you apparently didn't even read, since you've referenced what I wrote incorrectly), basing it on what I read, NOT on the title. There is no "double standard." The moderators are volunteers. We do the best we can, in addition to our regular jobs/hobbies/lives. We do not go out of our way to annoy, harass, or **** people off, though moving threads or any other way. For you to imply this "double standard" crap is insulting and mean. There was no reason you couldn't have posted "I really think it would be nice if there was an RX-8 VS XXX forum on here" to get your point across.

This "suggestion" of yours is nothing but a thinly veiled attack on those of us who are working our butts off to try and keep this forum in a semblance of order, and it is not appreciated.

pgtr

1) Why should I contact a mystery moderator privately? How does the thread starter know which moderator moved a comparison thread from one forum to another? How does a newbie searching the forums and seeing some comparisons here and others moved there going to learn? It's a public forum and a public issue. There is also clear precedent being set w/ other 'comparison' or 'vs' issues being allowed (or disallowed?) in Rx8 Discussion.

2) I believe I have made this suggestion in constructive, polite, fact-based, respectful terms.

On the other hand can we say the same about innuendos towards me RE: 'impoliteness', "effort to embarass/shame...", "rudely", "antagonistic", "'this double standard' crap is insulting and mean", "a thinly veiled attack on those of us..."?

3) I'm not looking for credibility here - I'm merely pointing out the facts and making a constructive suggestion for improvement - an improvement that probably benefits moderators MORE than regular particpants! The suggestion is offered for it's own merits. My credibility or lack thereof should not be an issue held for or against the merits of the suggestion. Again attempt connect my credibility to the suggestion itself is similarly unobjective.

It's clear that no matter how polite and respectful I attempt to be and no matter how much appreciation I may express for the voluntary work of all moderators, even those inclined towards thin skinned defensiveness - you are simply going to maintain this unwarranted defensive stance.

IMHO we're not infallible, can make mistakes and CAN IMPROVE. At least I think we all can. Perhaps you disagree? And would not a consistent and less arbitrary approach make yours and fellow moderators tasks simpler and less stressful? I appologize if I'm wrong but I sense a lot of stress and perhaps even hostility on your part. Stress that could be avoided altogether if there were a consistent and clear approach to 'comparison' threads.

Nope. No efforts or such intent from this quarter. I've provided facts and made a constructive suggestion out of what I believe to be a less than equitable situation. I recognize that you are very disturbed by my suggestion but I suggest you reconsider the facts and merits of the suggestion rather than personalize the thread towards me.

Despite what is suggested, I nor I suspect anyone else of reason believes there is any conspiracy to "annoy, harass, or **** people off" by moderators. The facts I have demonstrate indicate that there is no clear standard or reasonable defacto standard being used to differentiate between what comparisons between RX8s and XXX are and are not allowed on the Rx8 Discussion section. It appears to be in a word, arbitrary. I feel certain that a better solution such as those I've suggested here would result in more clarity for moderators to perform their voluntary functions by w/ respect to 'comparison' threads. Obviously you disagree and prefer the status quo of judgement calls over a more standardized approach and that is of course your right.

Sigh. I'm not sure what you're looking for here... sympathy?

To the contrary it is a genuine suggestion meant to be constructive - indeed it's meant to hopefully modestly alleviate the stress you seem to work under and have so abundantly illustrated for us in your post.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree - unlike yourself - I believe a clear consistent approach to dealing w/ 'comparison' threads is in order and that this approach would IMHO mitigate some of apparent stress moderators feel. The approach could be any number of options such as allowing them all to reside in Rx8 Discussion, in a special comparison section etc. Or if they are to be sprinkled across multiple sections as you have them now - simply provide us w/ some guidelines as to which makes we can compare Rx8s to and how. IMHO This needn't be a deep dark secret we users must divine thru trial and error w/ untold consternation placed upon the backs of volunteer moderators.

D MENAC 7

[QUOTE]Originally posted by pgtr
[B]1) Why should I contact a mystery moderator privately? How does the thread starter know which moderator moved a comparison thread from one forum to another? How does a newbie searching the forums and seeing some comparisons here and others moved there going to learn? It's a public forum and a public issue. There is also clear precedent being set w/ other 'comparison' or 'vs' issues being allowed (or disallowed?) in Rx8 Discussion.

2) I believe I have made this suggestion in constructive, polite, fact-based, respectful terms.

On the other hand can we say the same about innuendos towards me RE: 'impoliteness', "effort to embarass/shame...", "rudely", "antagonistic", "'this double standard' crap is insulting and mean", "a thinly veiled attack on those of us..."?

3) I'm not looking for credibility here - I'm merely pointing out the facts and making a constructive suggestion for improvement - an improvement that probably benefits moderators MORE than regular particpants! The suggestion is offered for it's own merits. My credibility or lack thereof should not be an issue held for or against the merits of the suggestion. Again attempt connect my credibility to the suggestion itself is similarly unobjective.

It's clear that no matter how polite and respectful I attempt to be and no matter how much appreciation I may express for the voluntary work of all moderators, even those inclined towards thin skinned defensiveness - you are simply going to maintain this unwarranted defensive stance. [QUOTE]


Though you MAY not have INTENDED to sound critical of Elara's actions and other moderator's treatment of the RX-8 vs. XXX posts, it is the WAY you went about IT that may have been misconstrued by Elara and, quite frankly the other moderatrors on the forum.

Let me put it differently...

Though you may not have intended to sound critical of Elara's actions and other moderator's treatment of the RX-8 vs. XXX posts, it is the way you went about it that may have been misconstrued by Elara and, wuite frankly, the other moderators on the forum.

The second paragraph is the way one would put it using "constructive, polite, fact-based, respectful terms."

Your use of italics, bold print and single quote encapsulated text makes your statement condescending in your mention of who is responsible for organization of threads and treatment on this forum.

It is simple to understand that when one communicates in writing, only part of our senses are actually stimulated and the rest is up to the imagination. There is no indication of body language,vocal inflections, eye contact, relational information, etc. which makes up a great deal of what we are communicating with others. That is why a great author can move peoples emotions with words. That is also the reason why those who are not versed well in writing often cause others to misconstrue what it is they have written and occasionally bring out defensiveness, anger, confusion, etc. of our emotions.

If there is something that you disagree with, an action that is questionable, please, at least, put it in a simple toned down style of writing. I am sure your blood pressure raised when reading the first paragraph of my posting and that now you are the one on the defense and will, most likely, post another long and demonstrative reply as to how I am wrong about this assumption.

pgtr

I recognize that Elara's feelings are hurt and Elara feels underappreciated but I can't change the facts or whether they bother Elara or not. Few it seems may appreciate the thought I put into my suggestion either but hey I can deal with it.


Well we could talk about the way a literary masterpiece may move and sway one yaddi yaddi yaddi - the suggestion I have put forth is a constructive one and one in which I have provided supporting facts. I have provided facts that effectively illustrate and underscore an issue. And I have provided numerous possible suggestions to remedy this. I hope that my lack of literary skill suitable to your's and Elara's high standards and sensitivities does not in any way lessen the consideration the suggestion merits. If Elara chooses to be 'defensive' I submit it's the facts that cause this. These repeated attempts to spin a valid observation of facts and constructive suggestions into some sort of attack is unfounded. Simply because a suggestion doesn't support the status quo adopted by a moderator is no reason for a moderator to be 'threatened' or become defensive to the point of refusing to discuss the issues/suggestions while continuing on this victimization diatribe. In fact, as I've stated before, one of the 'goals' or success factors for this suggestion so to LESSEN the workload on moderators.

Why this need on yours and Elara's parts to polarize readers? Yours and Elara's posts would have us either A) review the facts I have presented and consider the merits of my suggestions OR B) believe that I am part of some poorly conceived evil conspiracy to attack and discredit all moderators especifically Elara. If you and Elara would rather not discuss the suggestion and force this polarization so be it ... We've all heard it several times now like a mantra: 'pgtr is attacking Elara'. Why not let's give this schtick a rest, uncircle your wagons and move on to the actual suggestion(s) itself?

Why not talk about the facts? Why not talk about the various suggestions I and others have put forth here? Back to the actual issue at hand:

I've observed apparent inequity in how Rx8 vs XXX type comparison threads are being treated and dealt with. Even another moderator has publicly admitted this might exist (see links above). Yet others have observed the same facts I have and reached the same logical conclusions.

I and others have also suggested several potential solutions including but not limited to:

• Allow ALL comparison threads in Rx8 Discussion
• Allow NO comparison threads in Rx8 Discussion
• Place ALL comparison threads in a special section
• Continue to place the burden of selectively discriminating between allowed and disallowed comparison threads in Rx8 Discussion on moderators BUT provide some guidance so that we know what we are allowed to compare to and more importantly HOW we can and cannot compare Rx8s to XXX.

D MENAC 7

Though I said I wouldn't reply to anything you posted next, I cannot help but to say just one other thing. You did compose a nice long diatribe without as many single quoted text, italics and bold type print as before. Thank you for this. You do not lack litterary skills, as I think that you have proven even before this, you're just lacking in tactfulness.

Now that the wagons are uncircled, I think we moderators can think about your suggestions, discuss them amongst ourselves to come up with a viable solution and get back with you. Thank you for your well thought out suggestion(s).