Bulldog6670

Just had my RX-8 rust proofed with Krown. Not one hole was drilled per my request.

I went to some Rustcheck and Krown rustproof places asking if holes had to be drilled in the car in order for it to get rust proofed. They all said YES like I was a moron, and never even looked at the car. I found a Krown dealer that took time to listen to me. We both checked the car out. Amazingly, there are already plugs beneath the car where the rocker panels are. He just popped the factory plugs off and away he went. He used all of the existing openings and did not have to drill one hole. When he did the trunk lid, he simply removed screws from the trunk lid cover to access the rear part of the trunk lid.

It's amazing what you get when people listen and take an interest in what you are asking.

BTW, there is factory undercoating on the underside. It is rubbery stuff and it was already coming off in one spot on my car.

ZoomZoom

Hey Bulldog, what Krown dealer did you use?

I am reluctant to rustproof my 8 because of the drilling issue, even knowing that I will be driving it during the winter months. I am very familiar with Rustcheck and their annual reapplication, is the Krown system similar? Also, how much did it cost?

Thanks in advance!

Bulldog6670

I went to the one in Whitby. You do have to go every year for application within +/- 30 days of the date you had it done. In my case, I just go every summer. It also happens that summer is the best time to apply this stuff due do its creeping feature.

With a new vehicle, the cost is guaranteed at 109.99 per year as long as you own the vehicle.

I also looked into Rustcheck. What really pulled me in the direction of Krown was the APAA recommendation. Check out this link http://www.apa.ca/template.asp?DocID=11

Wing

Cool! I have a couple of questions though.

1) Does it drip off your car and get crap full of oil? Like keylocks etc.

2) What does it guarantee? That you won't rust from the inside out? This is what I keep hearing and reading and well the factory already gives you that.

ZoomZoom

Thanks dog for the quick response - I'll check into it.

Bulldog6670

Yes, the stuff drips for a couple of days. The good news is that this stuff really works well at preventing and stopping rust. I've no problem going through this pain for a couple of days a year to ensure my car does not rust out from the inside.

The factory does give this warranty, but I want the extra protection especially with driving the car in the winter. I also question the factory rustproofing as some of the stuff they put on the underside was off and exposing unprotected metal.

The Krown warranty is as follows (from their web site);
This warranty applies to new vehicles purchased less than six months prior to the application of KROWN, within one year of manufacture production date, except as may be extended by applicable provincial laws.

ANNUAL APPLICATION GIVES CONTINUED PROTECTION If you have KROWN Rust Control applied by a certified applicator annually within 30 days (plus or minus) of the anniversary date we will warranty:

1. ALL body panels below window line.
2. ALL seams and crevices.
3. All floors/rocker panels.


If any of the above perforate by rusting from the inside out, we will repair/replace them at No Charge, up to the then current cash value of the vehicle (as listed in the Black Book Listing). If you sell the vehicle, the warranty is transferable to the new owner at No Cost. The warranty is honoured at all KROWN Centres.

KROWN's warranty excludes only the following:
Roofs with vinyl tops; rusting caused by stone chips, nicks, scratches, chips; rusting of chrome caulk filled areas; the front fenders without fender liners.

KROWN, under the conditions of this warranty, shall not be responsible for lost time, inconvenience or any other consequential damage including loss of use of vehicle in the event repairs are made to the vehicle under the conditions of this warranty.

WARRANTY AMENDMENTS TO ACCIDENT DAMAGED VEHICLES IN THE EVENT OF AN ACCIDENT, THE DAMAGED SECTION MUST BE RE-TREATED WITH KROWN (WITHOUT CHARGE) WITHIN 30 DAYS OF REPAIRS BEING COMPLETED.

However, KROWN has the option of canceling the warranty depending on the extent of damage and/or quality of repair on the affected area.

Wing

Bah, it doesn't cover surface rust, nothing does. What's the point.

Cars don't rust from the inside out when they are undercoated and are kept clean especially after the winter, you must hose it down nice and good.

I'm not sure if i want black crap all over the place.

ZoomZoom

That's why you wash and Zaino your car!

Bulldog6670

I'm with you on the surface rust Wing. That's why I'm using Zaino on the outside. As for the black stuff you're speaking of, must be something else. The Krown stuff is fairly clear and goes on pretty thin. You really do not notice it.

I'm looking at this as extra insurance hoping I never have to use it. The real test will be in ten years time. We'll have to compare cars then...

mac

I have the Ziebart treatment on my Teg, it never leaked after application. I can't compare to Krown since the car is only a 99. It only has one spot of surface rust which is underneath the rubber lip that surrounds the rear wheel well. It's getting a touch up this fall (if my 8 hasn't arrived by then ). My concern with using Krown is that my building has a clause in the lease agreement about vehicules that drip any kind of substance... you gotta pay to repair any damage. BTW the lease agreement is 14 pages (legal size)

Wing

Where does it leak from? I get a discount from a krown dealer through work. It might be worth it, if It won't make my driveway a mess and it won't get my cloths or things in my trunk full of crap.

I just finished a 3 step process with meguires. Zaino doesn't use carnauba wax, it is apparently the best type for winter protection.

ZoomZoom

Sorry to disappoint you Wing but Zaino lasts much longer than any carnauba wax. Zaino is not a wax but a polymer and it will typically last three to six months. Carnauba waxes typically do not last more that three weeks in the summer before you have to reapply.

Now some people believe that carnauba waxes give a deeper/wetter look than polymers; especially on dark coloured cars. I've seen some amazing dark coloured cars that have been Z'd so I am not convinced by this.

73JPS

Hey Wing, I don't mean to be rude but this is important: cars in fact DO rust from the inside out when undercoated, because undercoating does nothing to protect the bare unpainted metal and joints on the inside of the panels. Some undercoatings will actually seal damaging moisture into various parts of your vehicle. "Surface Rust" is pretty much nonsense from any information I have read on the subject. The demon is the rust that starts from the inside, which happens due to condensation or other trapped moisture; the most susceptible areas for rust to start are the joints and weld points where galvanization (or other factory protection) is not present or is weakened by the manufacturing process. The only type of product that will protect a vehicle in these areas is the drippy kind of crap that must be applied yearly: only that stuff has a chance to work and drip its way into every crevice. From any reading I have done, therefore, the best products are those from Krown, Rust Check, or ProtectOil.

Zoom, there was an excellent Krown dealer I always used to deal with in Richmond Hill; he was on Center, just off of Newkirk. Just like Bulldog's guy, he listened, and would apply product without drilling.

Again, the Zeibart types of treatment fare quite poorly compared to the (admittedly drippy) products like Krown or Rust Check (Zeibart is too waxy and viscous to work its way into the areas that really need protecting, the areas where the rust almost always starts). While the "drippies" do have to be applied yearly, they are (once again, from the reading I have done from independent sources) the only products that really work.

Bulldog6670

Well said 73JPS. Just to add a bit more about about rust protection from the APA. It's not just the metal that gets protected, but also electrical connections and mechanical components. Below is an excerp from the APA web page;

Rustproofing

Most modern vehicles do not show visible signs of rusting until they are over five or six years old. Beyond that, in the high salt environments of central and eastern Canada, the vehicle will experience mechanical and body deterioration due to corrosion. By the seventh or eighth year in service, this deterioration will usually result in increased maintenance and repair costs, or a reduced market value for the vehicle on resale. Repairs could include lower body panels like door bottoms and fenders, and mechanical parts like gas tanks, electrical connections, brake lines and air conditioner lines. Unfortunately, most dealer-applied rustproofing leaves a lot to be desired. It's usually a one-time only application of a product that dries out and cracks as the vehicle gets older. A CAA study revealed that 85% of dealer-applied rustproofing leaves one or more high-risk areas of the vehicle unprotected.

Wing

Yes, the dealer "lifetime" warranty rustproofing that the guy tried to sell me is CRAP.

I'd have to dig up the information again on the Carnauba wax, of course come are better than others.

Wing

I called the krown guy here and he said that he can't garantee the rustproofing if he can't drill holes

Although he said, he could take a look at the car and see what is available. He said he would use holes if they do exist.

I'll have to remember, behind trunk lid, and beneath car for rocker panels.

Bulldog6670

Wing, that's the standard answer they give. Even though my guy checked the car over and said he could do it but may have to drill holes underneath, he was quite shocked when the car went up on the lift at the amount of existing plugs under the rocker panel.

Get him to check the car over and you may be surprised by his change in attitude and he sees the car.

Smoker

I see, so from what I've read here, looks like you really have to get them to do rust proofing every year then .... so I guess the cost would be aroudnd $110 each time, am I right ?

Also, do you guys recommend those Paint Protection, Perma-Shine kind of Paint treatments ? thanks.

Wing

I'm still wondering though, if it's worth it. Many people I talk to have the opinion that most cars these days are pretty good for this sort of thing and the metal manufacturing etc is better.

And since in 6 or 7 years I'll probably dump the car for a new one?

Ah.... we'll see if they don't have to drill I might do it. Although you can't really tell they drilled it's pretty harmless.

jgibbons

Is this the shop you went to? Any chance you remember who you spoke with?

Krown Rust Control120 Russett Avenue
Oshawa, ON
L1G 3R5

Tel: 905-433-4105

For those driving their 8s this winter in the GTA, should we look at a group rate if possible?

Bulldog6670

I had mine done again this August for it's second time. The place I got it done is in Whitby.

Krown Rust Control
5-317 Hopkins Street,
Whitby, ON
L1N 2C1

905-665-6753

jgibbons

Who did you deal with at that dealer? Did you get a hassle about drilling or did they realize/recognize that you didn't have it drilled the first time?

Thanks

Bulldog6670

It's the same guy. He did it the first time last year without drilling. When I got it done this summer for the second time, I told him he could drill holes if it made it easier for him. He did drill 3 holes, but he would have done it without drilling if I asked him to.