302.8 whp/267.9 ft lbs/20.67 mpg
302.8 whp/267.9 ft lbs/20.67 mpg
Vehicle - 2005 Rx-8 6spd 35,000 miles: Mazsport Type 1 Turbo Kit, HKS Twin Power Ignition Amplifier, RP Supercat (note: catalyst may no longer be with us), RB Catback
Shop: Install - Jim at JPR Imports in Blackwood, NJ.
Tune - Rob at Maximum AutoSound, Security, & Performance in Garwood, NJ.
Dyno - Dynapack Hydraulic Brake Dyno - This dyno, similar to a mustang dyno in concept (hydraulic brake), should read about 8% lower than a dynojet but is very repeatable making it good for tuning according to Rob.
Results -
302.8 hp @ 6200ish RPM
267.9 ft-lbs @ 5450ish RPM
20.67 peak recorded highway MPG post turbo install.
11.56 psi peak boost
12.5 to 10.8 afr (12 to 12.5 up to 6500 and then it dips under 11 at 7000 and above)
I have Rob from Maximum AutoSound Security & Performance emailing me the plots. I have them on paper. The only hold up was he never set up his dyno PC with his shop network and/or some software to be able to provide electronic copies other than to removable storage (which I did not have on me at the time of pickup). I could scan the plots I guess. The car is running off the interceptor-x and currently in map mode. I only had time to get the car in the shop for 1 day. When I drop the car off for a full top to bottom tune, it'll be swapped to matrix mode to fix some of my RPM specific issues (lean in vacuum at 3000 rpms and rich idle/top end).
Personal thoughts:
1. Assuming the 8% difference is roughly correct and that the SAE J1349 correction (it was maybe 75-80 degrees in the shop so the correction should be minimal), the car was up against the ~325ish stock coil hp barrier (depending on reference, 8% takes it to 327-329 whp).
2. By 7000 rpms, my torque curve is starting to plummet. I'm hoping when someone looks at the chart they recognize it as simply overwhelming the stock coils with strength of spark required at an increasing frequency. Are the coils also heating up during the run? If the car was taken to peak tq and held, would the coils heat up and fade? Don't know. To give you an idea of the torque: 5500 - 267, 6000 - 262, 6500 - 245, 7000 - 215, 7500 - 175, 8000 - 135, 8500 - 55. At 8500, I think the throttle is already closing to end the run, but the torque curve dive is very pronounced and the peak HP is very early.
3. The car sounds great through 7000 rpms. Up top, though, the car has a choppy texture. If I were to guess, I'd say the ignition is failing and a lot of the fuel is burning or continuing to burn in the exhaust manifold. The noise is similar to when I downshift the car for engine braking and the exhaust pops a little but at a much higher frequency.
4. My boost peaks at 11.56 psi. By 7000 rpms, it's making less than 10 psi and maybe down to 9 at 8000 rpms. Is this because of the weak ignition or a waste gate that is more open than it should be? I think the mazsport kit ships with a 7 lb spring but I do have a greddy ebc in there. Not sure, but for now I'm not worried about losing a couple PSI.
So, my to-do list right now is:
1. Install Mazmart water pump to combat cavitation. I got my coolant level sensor to go on twice now. It only came on for a short period of time during heavy driving. I checked my coolant level, and it's full. I'm hoping this is caused by pump cavitation caused by a combination of higher than normal coolant temps (caused by the additional power) and poor pump design rather than a deeper cooling system issue. I watch my coolant temp fairly diligently.
2. Order/install Mazsport cooling mod. It looks like my stock coolant temp sensor has not fully survived the turbo process. It reads about 20 degrees low. I have not validated this with a laser pyrometer, but initially I was not able to get the radiator fans to come on. The fans currently have a jumper installed so that I can run them constantly should I need to. It's a stop gap solution for now. With the fans on, I don't have heat issues other than as discussed above.
3. Order/install coils. I shot off a PM to Charles R Hill last night. I then read the remainder of the thread on the coil setups BHR is looking to run. I'm not keen on having red wires (my entire exterior and engine bay being black, silver, and blue) but maybe we can work something out.
4. Full tune in matrix mode after the coils are in. I'm not looking to really set any records, but I would like to see my car be able to maintain its torque curve and handle its own cooling.
(I went to scan the plots. The boost chart plot out nice and black. On the hp/tq graph, the baseline run is almost invisible and the final tune run is actually invisible. Damn you light green/blue lines.)
If anyone has input on what overloading the stock coils sounds like/looks like on a dynoplot, chime in. The coils seems to function fine as my car runs well and I get good gas mileage relative to before. The precipitous drop in TQ (and subsequent low HP development) and rough tone at high RPMS (as experienced on the dyno - I don't run the car much past 7000 right now) are my 2 symptoms. Confirmation would be nice, but I'm replacing the coils anyway. I have 2600 miles in 4 weeks post turbo with a ton of traveling highway miles and some hard driving. So far, so good.
Warning! The below dyno sheet looks like hell!! It is a hand traced paper plot scanned and emailed as a tif which was then reduced in size and color content in MSPaint and exported to JPeg. It's the best I can do for now. The hand traced lines are the car as it sits now. The ghost lines are the base map I rode in with at a lower boost setting, more conservative timing, and too much fuel. I didn't trace the base line as it's entirely unimportant at this point in time and I am lazy. The grid lines are for the torque Y axis. Note that the HP tic marks do not line up with the torque grid lines.
Shop: Install - Jim at JPR Imports in Blackwood, NJ.
Tune - Rob at Maximum AutoSound, Security, & Performance in Garwood, NJ.
Dyno - Dynapack Hydraulic Brake Dyno - This dyno, similar to a mustang dyno in concept (hydraulic brake), should read about 8% lower than a dynojet but is very repeatable making it good for tuning according to Rob.
Results -
302.8 hp @ 6200ish RPM
267.9 ft-lbs @ 5450ish RPM
20.67 peak recorded highway MPG post turbo install.
11.56 psi peak boost
12.5 to 10.8 afr (12 to 12.5 up to 6500 and then it dips under 11 at 7000 and above)
I have Rob from Maximum AutoSound Security & Performance emailing me the plots. I have them on paper. The only hold up was he never set up his dyno PC with his shop network and/or some software to be able to provide electronic copies other than to removable storage (which I did not have on me at the time of pickup). I could scan the plots I guess. The car is running off the interceptor-x and currently in map mode. I only had time to get the car in the shop for 1 day. When I drop the car off for a full top to bottom tune, it'll be swapped to matrix mode to fix some of my RPM specific issues (lean in vacuum at 3000 rpms and rich idle/top end).
Personal thoughts:
1. Assuming the 8% difference is roughly correct and that the SAE J1349 correction (it was maybe 75-80 degrees in the shop so the correction should be minimal), the car was up against the ~325ish stock coil hp barrier (depending on reference, 8% takes it to 327-329 whp).
2. By 7000 rpms, my torque curve is starting to plummet. I'm hoping when someone looks at the chart they recognize it as simply overwhelming the stock coils with strength of spark required at an increasing frequency. Are the coils also heating up during the run? If the car was taken to peak tq and held, would the coils heat up and fade? Don't know. To give you an idea of the torque: 5500 - 267, 6000 - 262, 6500 - 245, 7000 - 215, 7500 - 175, 8000 - 135, 8500 - 55. At 8500, I think the throttle is already closing to end the run, but the torque curve dive is very pronounced and the peak HP is very early.
3. The car sounds great through 7000 rpms. Up top, though, the car has a choppy texture. If I were to guess, I'd say the ignition is failing and a lot of the fuel is burning or continuing to burn in the exhaust manifold. The noise is similar to when I downshift the car for engine braking and the exhaust pops a little but at a much higher frequency.
4. My boost peaks at 11.56 psi. By 7000 rpms, it's making less than 10 psi and maybe down to 9 at 8000 rpms. Is this because of the weak ignition or a waste gate that is more open than it should be? I think the mazsport kit ships with a 7 lb spring but I do have a greddy ebc in there. Not sure, but for now I'm not worried about losing a couple PSI.
So, my to-do list right now is:
1. Install Mazmart water pump to combat cavitation. I got my coolant level sensor to go on twice now. It only came on for a short period of time during heavy driving. I checked my coolant level, and it's full. I'm hoping this is caused by pump cavitation caused by a combination of higher than normal coolant temps (caused by the additional power) and poor pump design rather than a deeper cooling system issue. I watch my coolant temp fairly diligently.
2. Order/install Mazsport cooling mod. It looks like my stock coolant temp sensor has not fully survived the turbo process. It reads about 20 degrees low. I have not validated this with a laser pyrometer, but initially I was not able to get the radiator fans to come on. The fans currently have a jumper installed so that I can run them constantly should I need to. It's a stop gap solution for now. With the fans on, I don't have heat issues other than as discussed above.
3. Order/install coils. I shot off a PM to Charles R Hill last night. I then read the remainder of the thread on the coil setups BHR is looking to run. I'm not keen on having red wires (my entire exterior and engine bay being black, silver, and blue) but maybe we can work something out.
4. Full tune in matrix mode after the coils are in. I'm not looking to really set any records, but I would like to see my car be able to maintain its torque curve and handle its own cooling.
(I went to scan the plots. The boost chart plot out nice and black. On the hp/tq graph, the baseline run is almost invisible and the final tune run is actually invisible. Damn you light green/blue lines.)
If anyone has input on what overloading the stock coils sounds like/looks like on a dynoplot, chime in. The coils seems to function fine as my car runs well and I get good gas mileage relative to before. The precipitous drop in TQ (and subsequent low HP development) and rough tone at high RPMS (as experienced on the dyno - I don't run the car much past 7000 right now) are my 2 symptoms. Confirmation would be nice, but I'm replacing the coils anyway. I have 2600 miles in 4 weeks post turbo with a ton of traveling highway miles and some hard driving. So far, so good.
Warning! The below dyno sheet looks like hell!! It is a hand traced paper plot scanned and emailed as a tif which was then reduced in size and color content in MSPaint and exported to JPeg. It's the best I can do for now. The hand traced lines are the car as it sits now. The ghost lines are the base map I rode in with at a lower boost setting, more conservative timing, and too much fuel. I didn't trace the base line as it's entirely unimportant at this point in time and I am lazy. The grid lines are for the torque Y axis. Note that the HP tic marks do not line up with the torque grid lines.
Last edited by maxxdamigz; Jul 29, 2008 at 02:34 PM.
Well, my point of reference right now is the esmeril turbo kit and the mazsport kit in the comparison thread. My car made more TQ than either yet is well behind in the HP department. If the car can just maintain it's torque curve, it *should* do 340 whp, perhaps more. Having a high-flo cat might choke me out some up top as opposed to a straight pipe, but I may have also melted and shot my catalyst out the tail pipe. I'm droping the cat shortly to inspect its condition and punch it out. It throws a code for effectiveness already. I didn't really expect it to survive the turbo anyway.
sounds like you just need coils, a bit of tuning work, and possibly play with your boost controller some more. oh and get rid of the cat like you said
congrats so far!
congrats so far!
I updated the first post with a hacked up dynoplot. I should be getting an electronic version in my email and I'll be sure to bring a pen drive or something with me when I go in for the full tune. I'm a numbers ***** myself. Heck, I might see if Rob can just give me the data points rather than the graph. The graph its self isn't that useful other than to see the big picture.
Well, I couldn't say for certain if it's blow out or if a bunch of it is a twisted mass of melted exhaust restriction. It certainly doesn't seem to be hurting my gas mileage and if it is, I'll be in the running for best mpg in an 8 post correction. We shall see. Now that a lot of the heavy lifting has been done, it's all about tweaking, tuning, and fixing.
Power!!
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,412
Likes: 3
From: Sunny See attle
Yup. I would agree cat is gone. That's why you have nothing in the high RPM. I would pull it before you do any hard charging or additional tuning and potentially damage something trying to tune for something that is broken.
goal = perfect rx8
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
From: virginia
Nice setup and good luck optimizing it. Out of curiosity's sake, why have you selected the BHR coils over the Mazsport Ignition Solution? It's the same company as your turbo kit and has received excellent reviews. Just wondering.
Minor update - the supercat is no longer with us. It was starting to create a pretty significant restriction so I stopped being lazy and took it in to be fixed. I took it to Custom Mufflers at the Livingston Collision Center at the recommendation of some IS300 guys I know. When they pulled off the mid pipe section, the cat was still 100% intact. In fact, the honeycomb had heat warped into a wavy mess. It looked a lot like a sunflower and it probably had similar flow properties. The metal honeycomb catalyst structure turned out to be very resilient in the face of an air chisel, a pry bar, a section of pipe, a 5 lb rubber mallet, and eventually a drill. Really, had we known it was going to be so tough, I would have had them just cut it off and put in a pipe with the bungs I need. 20/20 hindsight and all.
Then, the RB Catback needed some work to remove the 2.5" transition. The Supercat also had a 2.5" connection on it as both are designed to mate up with stock pieces (and they did mate up well with each other). So, the end of the supercat and rb were both cut out and a 3" slip fit connection was made and then welded on. My mid pipe now goes from the downpipe all the way past the rear axles. We'll see if that bites me in the *** later on. The pieces are lifetime warrantee.
So I got in the car and the difference was readily apparent. The car still isn't very loud (which I like as a personal preference) but it is more free and open as one would expect. I haven't really done a full pull in a gear yet. It looked to me that at mid boost/partial throttle it was a couple tenths leaner than prior so I'll likely add a little fuel after work and see what it looks like. I have more dyno time on Saturday - same shop as previously - and we'll see where I am at. I'll bring/buy/borrow a USB storage device to get actual plots.
Then, the RB Catback needed some work to remove the 2.5" transition. The Supercat also had a 2.5" connection on it as both are designed to mate up with stock pieces (and they did mate up well with each other). So, the end of the supercat and rb were both cut out and a 3" slip fit connection was made and then welded on. My mid pipe now goes from the downpipe all the way past the rear axles. We'll see if that bites me in the *** later on. The pieces are lifetime warrantee.
So I got in the car and the difference was readily apparent. The car still isn't very loud (which I like as a personal preference) but it is more free and open as one would expect. I haven't really done a full pull in a gear yet. It looked to me that at mid boost/partial throttle it was a couple tenths leaner than prior so I'll likely add a little fuel after work and see what it looks like. I have more dyno time on Saturday - same shop as previously - and we'll see where I am at. I'll bring/buy/borrow a USB storage device to get actual plots.
Last edited by maxxdamigz; Aug 12, 2008 at 02:40 PM.
Power!!
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,412
Likes: 3
From: Sunny See attle
Minor update - the supercat is no longer with us. It was starting to create a pretty significant restriction so I stopped being lazy and took it in to be fixed. I took it to Custom Mufflers at the Livingston Collision Center at the recommendation of some IS300 guys I know. When they pulled off the mid pipe section, the cat was still 100% intact. In fact, the honeycomb had heat warped into a wavy mess. It looked a lot like a sunflower and it probably had similar flow properties. The metal honeycomb catalyst structure turned out to be very resilient in the face of an air chisel, a pry bar, a section of pipe, a 5 lb rubber mallet, and eventually a drill. Really, had we known it was going to be so tough, I would have had them just cut it off and put in a pipe with the bungs I need. 20/20 hindsight and all.
Then, the RB Catback needed some work to remove the 2.5" transition. The Supercat also had a 2.5" connection on it as both are designed to mate up with stock pieces (and they did mate up well with each other). So, the end of the supercat and rb were both cut out and a 3" slip fit connection was made and then welded on. My mid pipe now goes from the downpipe all the way past the rear axles. We'll see if that bites me in the *** later on. The pieces are lifetime warrantee.
So I got in the car and the difference was readily apparent. The car still isn't very loud (which I like as a personal preference) but it is more free and open as one would expect. I haven't really done a full pull in a gear yet. It looked to me that at mid boost/partial throttle it was a couple tenths leaner than prior so I'll likely add a little fuel after work and see what it looks like. I have more dyno time on Saturday - same shop as previously - and we'll see where I am at. I'll bring/buy/borrow a USB storage device to get actual plots.
Then, the RB Catback needed some work to remove the 2.5" transition. The Supercat also had a 2.5" connection on it as both are designed to mate up with stock pieces (and they did mate up well with each other). So, the end of the supercat and rb were both cut out and a 3" slip fit connection was made and then welded on. My mid pipe now goes from the downpipe all the way past the rear axles. We'll see if that bites me in the *** later on. The pieces are lifetime warrantee.
So I got in the car and the difference was readily apparent. The car still isn't very loud (which I like as a personal preference) but it is more free and open as one would expect. I haven't really done a full pull in a gear yet. It looked to me that at mid boost/partial throttle it was a couple tenths leaner than prior so I'll likely add a little fuel after work and see what it looks like. I have more dyno time on Saturday - same shop as previously - and we'll see where I am at. I'll bring/buy/borrow a USB storage device to get actual plots.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
