dmp

November of 2006 I suspected my car's cat was 'going bad'. I'd noticed a decent loss of power in the upper-regions of my car's powerband.

After, I noticed my car being symptomatic of the 'bad engine' (Nopower after freeway cruising). While the car was in the shop for the engine transplant I asked them about the Cat, too. He said the cat 'was fine' and re-installed it on the car.

From day one, with this new engine, the power up high seemed 'strained' - as if the engine was yanking all sorts of timing. Two months later, after a couple thousand miles, I went to dyno my car - the symptoms of no-top-end power were worsening.

The car made a WHOPPING 137whp - down SIXTY (peak - down more than 100 at some points in the rpm range).

Armed with this data, I took the car again to Mazda and showed them a dyno of my car with the previous engine - and newer cat (they'd replaced for me the FIRST time the cat went bad). 197whp.

They had the car a week - more than a week, actually. They said the car passed EVER test mazda asked them to performed and they could find NO faults.

It didn't MATTER I had evidence of a problem - The dealership said the regional Mazda warranty guy said since the car passed every test, the dyno was irrelevant.

I asked of the Mazda Service writer "do I have to physically REMOVE this cat, and bring it to you, so you could SEE it's bad?"

His reply led me to believe even THAT would not do anything since, visually bad or not, the Cat passed their "Pressure Test". He said the exhaust system recorded NO back pressure.

Fast forward to today. I had an independent Performance Exhaust shop pressure test my Cat. When the tech got under the car he asked if it'd been checked before. Mazda told me they'd got less than 3psi back pressure with the car. The tech today told me "How did they check it? One is supposed to drill a small hole just in front of the cat - then weld it shut when you're done, and I don't see ANYTHING under here"

He got me in the car and held up the pressure gauge as I rev'd the car out of gear. The needle shot up to 20-25PSI!!!

Also - just from about 5 rev's, out of gear, to redline and back, the cat got GLOWING hot.

My car is making 20-25PSI at times, BEFORE the cat. The tech today told me a 'normal' cat should read 0psi back-pressure there...but even up to 3psi is 'within spec' most of the time. He said he'd recommend IMMEDIATE replacement of the cat.

I called Mazda on the way home. He even tried to discount TODAY'S test with "If it's not the test Mazda calls for..."

I have to speak with the service manager monday - but at this point I'm in SHOCK.

Here I have provided Mazda with DOCUMENTED, MEASURED evidence of a problem with my car, and Mazda is Absolutely dropping the ball.

I had a thought - perhaps if the "District Mazda Guy" doesn't want to work with me, anyone think the EPA would be interested in knowing Mazda is allowing - in the face of SOLID evidence to the contrary - a bad Cat-Converter on the public roads? Anyone have experience getting their car fixed by calling in the EPA?

QBallz

Wow that sucks, your cat is reverse boosting your engine!

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

There is a 800 number that you can call Mazda if your having problems with your dealer. Explain to them the problems you are having. Maybe someone can provide it as I don't have it in front of me. It may be in your owners manual.

Renesis_8

holy, contact the right people with those results and screw your dealership/regional rep big time!
________
LIVE SEX WEBSHOWS

Ericok

Your problem is that you've shown that your dealer personnel are incompetent idiots so the dealership is now in full defensive mode. Mazda test or not, you'd think the fact that the cat glows red would be enough of an indication that something is obviously wrong. A glowing cat should be a safety issue. I did get a Fiat X1/9 fixed when I reported a safety defect on the National Highway Traffic Safety Admisistration's web site - Fiat's regional rep called me within a week of it being posted (they know it's you since the VIN is identified). If Mazda still refuses to fix it and your state requires emission testing, you might try getting it tested using a tailpipe test. It should fail. Then take it back to Mazda for the emission fix.

Spin9k

Similar thing happened to me. I took car in with the good and the bad acceleration graphs from a data logger showing the marked decrease in performance over time. I said PLEASE - check the cat! I'd seen this exact thing before on a friends car (I had) and he eventually found the cat was clogged.

So they called MNAO who told them to run tests and the cat came up - "Within specs" so next they were told to run the car 20-30 min in 3rd gear - they found stuttering and lack of power, etc. ..... but when I asked what MNAO said to do - they said - you guessed it - they never looked at the cat! I asked, they said "Why no...we weren't told to".

What did MNAO want done? They wanted the ECU sent back to CA for a reflash. So returned, reinstalled, THEY said it was all better. Go home, NO change in my testing so....back again....2nd time the lead tech, after doing some things they directed, SUGGESTED to them maybe to check the cat since they hadn't found the problem..

I overheard the discussion and Voila! - they let him. Surprise of suprises!!!! it was "broken up inside" (on repair order). So this was going on a total of two weeks in the shop for them to do what I asked them to do within 5 min of walking through the door the 1st day! Now they could replace the cat!! Sort of.

Of course there was no cat available locally (wonder why ) so another week before they got one to replace it..... all fixed right???? Think again... they sent me home..... all better....no.....the heat backup meanwhile had fried the coils...... CEL misfires - Of couse there was no coils available in the entire country - so they stripped a car on the lot thankfully and I was on my way.....

I wouldn't feel alone in this, it probably happens a lot. It's not the dealer, it's MNAO and their telephone repair jokeys following the flowchart not common sense.

dmp

thanks for the advice/ suggestions, folk. I ordered a TP from RB; if it gets here before friday, I'll install and re-dyno.

dmp

SO...BLAH.

RB's catless midpipe is on BACKORDER. Lame. I called another maz. dealer to see if they'll give me better results - in the meantime I've contacted my state Environment Protection people; the guy on the phone was VERY interested in the situation and said he'd help me get my concerns to the correct FEDERAL agency/contact person.

The saga continues.

Jedi54

iTrader: (7)

holy smokes! Keep us posted dmp, I hope you're able to get this resolved somehow.

shaunv74

Ahah! So this is where you've been hiding the results! This is so rediculous. Since when did computers and district offices free up mechanics from performing basic diagnostic evaluations that have been going on for 30 years? Just because the computer says everything is fine doesn't make it fine!! They should have looked at the graph and said "even though the computer says its fine I'll bet there's still something wrong." Definitely should hit up the Mazda 1-800 number to report the dealer and regional rep. Glad you're bringing in the Federal agency. That will probably pave the way for the rest of us to get better service when our cats go as well. Sorry to hear your dealership has a bunch of paper pushers in the Service department that don't like to get dirty...

Nemesis8

iTrader: (3)

I wonder how they tested pressure without a gauge??

shaunv74

Probably the old "Banana in the Tailpipe trick."

dmp

Dan told me Wayne was instructed to build a 'device' to measure exhaust pressure using the O2 Port.


On the phone with Maz tech line now - he's being aloof - said there won't be much he can do if the dealership can't replicate the problem or find the problem.

I've an appointment with Russ Dunmire tomorrow.

The EPA wants me to have a letter of refusal to correct the problem before they get involved - working that now.

Nemesis8

iTrader: (3)

Hmmm...

If the dealer built a device, then I would challenge it's calibration.

Detrich

i dunno who else has had the same experience as me. but, a few weeks ago when i talked to 800# (MNA) they were zero help whatsoever with my dispute w/ Alhambra Mazda. MNA basically said that each Mazda dealership is independently owned & operated and that MNA (1) has no oversight over them, (2) can't & won't do anything about disputes w/ dealers, and (3) really don't care to get involved. all this, even tho my car's still under warranty. damn biatches, if u ask me.

dmp

The tech line guy said "That is very reasonable" when I suggested I'd be happy to have a mazda tech simply DROP the f'ing cat and LOOK at it.

That's what I intend to do, tonight.

shaunv74

Ahah! There's the problem. The O2 port is in the middle of the cat between the two element bricks. If the blockage is upstream of the O2 port (the first brick is hosed) than it will never see backpressure!! Who's the rocket scientist that came up with that test?

As an additional thought...suggest to Ol' Wayne that he take the cat off and put it up to his lips (right after you get done driving it hard) and blow into it and see if it feels hard to blow into. That should be about as accurate of a test but far more entertaining to watch.

dmp

He claimed to have put his home-made sensor thing upstream of the cat - in the forward-most O2 Sensor housing. :-/

Cat bolts were too tight to come off today - so I left it.

zoom44

obviously this is ridiculous- the last time they just dropped the cat and found the bad bits. why did they refuse this time?

dmp

Mazda Tech line called today:

"As a gesture of GOOD WILL we'll agree to authorize having the cat removed and visually inspected, and tested further. Now, keep in mind, Mazda considers your dyno test as NOT valid; and would dismiss ANY attempt to have a car repaired based on a test such as that."

(sigh)

Spin9k

.....wouldn't you just like to grab someone (on the other end of a telephone) and shake them silly sometimes

RedSheDevil

ha ^^ that's a CYA mulligan answer if i ever heard one!

dmp

My reply to his Dyno comments were this:

"I'm not asking them to accept my dyno as 'proof' - but taken in context it is CERTAINLY 'evidence' of a problem with my particular car. Compared, in context, to 4 OTHER rx8's test results - on the SAME day on the SAME dyno, a REASONABLE person should conclude my car is NOT running right. Definitely not producing the HP Maz. claims; at least in relation to OTHER cars of the same year and model."

He just ignored it.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

The dealership you've been to are loaded with idiots who probably paid someone in ASE to get their degree.

Go to another one maybe ?

My CAT was all gone they replaced it no questions asked.

but I guess they asked so much because CATs are expensive and its costing Mazda a fortune so they're more careful on CAT replacements now.

shaunv74

computers do not = stop thinking.