http://www.automobilemag.com/feature...yno/index.html

great read, i think Mazda have some catching up to do though in terms of turbo tuning.

 

Okay range of useable power, pretty good. Same as the MS6, no power after 6000rpm
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FIFTY Horsepower loss through the front wheels is VERY unacceptable. Good Lord.

232hp rating on RX8s = 180whp...
263hp rating on MS3s = 215whp...

What's wrong with THAT Picture? I've never seen such HIGH and nearly idental parasitic losses on cars of different drive-layouts.

 

Embarassing.

 

The car is still incredibly fast and a great value.

 

I just can't bring myself to accept those numbers. If Mazda actually makes a transmission that sucks up 50 horsepower, then they have hobos engineering for them. I'm guessing it has to do with the ECU... it either just doesn't like being dynoed, or actually cuts that much usable horsepower ALL the time.... which is unacceptable and should be corrected with a piggyback unit.

 

You're right, I was expecting much higher Whp for the mazdaspeed3... man, they underrated the speed6, (thought that was a step in the right direction!) now they're back at it! overrating cars!.

The article brought up why there isnt a dual scroll turbo on the car... I wonder why, since they advertise how DISI and lack of turbo lag, but it is(lag) very apprent in the speed6 and speed3... dual scroll + DISI would be a great combo...
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They didn't start with the Speed6 - I noticed Mazda's numbers being jacked up w/ the RX8 - with the Miata, they seem acceptable. At least with the NA/NB miatae.


For Honda 197 Crank HP equals 180 WHEEL HP...

I'd be surprised if the MS3 REALLY made more than about 240hp at the crank - at least during that dyno run.

 

i think range of useable power is the weakness,

"Torque is similar throughout the midrange once the Mazda finally wakes up at 3000. By 6000, Mazda's engine is running out of breath..."


"but the engine feels anemic below 3000 rpm or above 5500"

That means that if you floor the Honda's loud pedal anywhere between two and eight grand, you'll have at your disposal at least 85% of the maximum quoted torque. VW's turbo GTI will hand over at least 70% of its peak number at any time from two grand to its own redline. The Mazda is far behind the others at 20%.

2500-3000rpm is a very small window of good acceleration. i think id rather see a lower peak number and smoother curves.

 

You say they underrated the Speed 6 at 274hp, and they are overrating the Speed 3 at 263hp? I hate to tell you, but the Speed 6 is not underrated. It's overrated as well. The Speed 6 dynos regularly in the 220whp range. Those cars aren't really any different tuning wise. Mazda is either right on with their HP while everyone else is underrating, or they are overrating them. I really don't know, but as a Mazdaspeed 6 owner, I can honestly say that my car does not have 274hp. Either way, they need to get this engine tuned right, and get more usable power out of these cars.
It's ashame so see a great engine like this underachieve. The fact that the RX8, and now the Speed6, and likely the Speed 3, were/are getting constant reflashes to try and come up with some way to make the car run better, while other car companies are not doing this, throws out the caution flag right there. Something doesn't smell right indeed.

 

I'm wondering if Mazda simply does NOT engine-dyno their motors. I see '50hp' repeated fairly closely here...between all three cars. Maybe they WHEEL dyno their cars, then ADD 50hp to get their engine HP rating...

 

i think Mazda might wanna to re-evaluate the competence of their engineers who tune their engines. sometimes I cant help but wonder what If the renesis and the mazda speed engine are tuned by BMW engineers? could they have different results?

 

Sorry, when I typed that, I was thinking more towards the torque, 220whp is a little underrated, but its AWD, not too much. However it makes a ton of torque. More than advertised.
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You will not get any gains bascially after 5500 rpm because the hitachi blower is blowing hot air.

 

That's not acceptable. My 240hp 236 torque rated E36 M3 dyno'd 215 rwhp and 212 rwtq stock.

 

Oh - don't GET Me started...I'm RIGHT there with ya. These cars seem to have the WORST, most Inefficient transmissions/drivetrains I've EVER encountered.

Sickening.

 

A transmission is a transmission folks. One company's gadget might be a little bit less/more efficient than another's, but it's still going to settle in between 12 and 20% (depending on auto/manual, fwd/rwd/awd). The transmissions are not at fault.

 

No doubt...tis why I believe Mazda's HP claims are the problem - NOT the mechanical bits. If Mazda would simply Say what the MEAN, and MEAN what they say.

 

Dunno. The turbo is reaching the end of its efficiency, but... the stock TMIC sucks. Even an upgraded one should see some improvement and a FMIC plus boost controller or COBB AccessPort may actually do something to help after 5500rpm. A 3" downpipe seems to be holding a decent amount of power as well... been seen with the CPE downpipe.

 

Its been said before somewhere that the MS3 comes with a really really restrictive exhaust, changing it out could free up quite a few ponies.
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In my previous post... I was actually refering to the results seen with the MS6. But I would except to see similar results with the MS3.

 

i dont really think peak hp matter that much in this case, its all about the area under the curve.
I dont think the 50hp lost between the engine and the wheels is that big of a deal... the real concern is the part where you are only getting good power from 3000-5500. thats is a tunning problem

 

Problem is Mazda's choice of turbo... small single scroll...............

If they went with a slightly bigger dual scroll, couple with the DISI, would be super quick spool and power in high rpm...
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Maybe Mazda does simply overrate their engines.

Or, as Mazda has stated for the RX-8, their ECU prohibits dynos from getting accurate readings at the wheel. As the MS6 & MS3 came after the RX-8, one would think their ECUs would be engineered in a similar way. This could explain the lack luster dyno results for all 3 cars.

I've never cared much about dyno results anyway. It only matters as benchmark for adding mods. If the car performs, who cares.

 

Maybe the IC wasnt getting sufficient cooling. It'll def make more power to the wheels on the road with fresh cool air ramming down the IC.
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