Ike

I've said it before but people keep bringing this up... If there is a problem with the dyno and the ECU is interfering any tuner with a inkling of experience will catch it. Yes, there have been some RX-8 dynos where it looks like there was something not quite right. However, for every one of those there are several other dynos where the runs look totally normal and indicate the RX-8 is making around 180whp (give or take depending on the dyno).

As for your last staement, whether the car has 90whp or 900whp, if it's fast enough and fun enough for you that's all that really matters.

1stgen8

iTrader: (1)

I really thought the 8 with it's 238 hp rating (listed on my invoice) put atleast 210 hp to the ground. I was like, "Damn, I'm getting the best of both worlds.....nice looking ride with power to match.....not!!!! All of that was before I bought my 8 and joined this forum. It's a shame my wifes 4dr V6 Accord puts down more hp than my 8. I won't even mention the torque of the 8. In stock form the Accord is rated at 240hp with 215 tq. When I saw an Accord on the dyno at a Nopi show I was impressed. It only had a AEM CAI and put down 227whp with 218tq......WTF Mazda. The 8 should not have to struggle to keep up with a 4dr Accord off the line.

6speed8

There is definitely something wrong with Mazda drivelines - When I had my 6 speed 2000 Celica, I used to get in it (in my garage), put my left foot on the ground , give a push and it would roll out of the garage. I tried the same with my GF's Miata and no go, I could not push that thing with the one foot. The Celica weighed 2500 lbs and the Miata is lighter. Forget about even trying that with the RX-8.

Next time you are in your RX-8 and on a slight incline take your foot off the brake, the car will not roll. Do the same in a Honda or Toyota and they will roll (quite easily).

We all know how noisy the RX-8 6 speed transmission is, well it's most likely the transmission bearings making all that racket, and that is not right, and perhaps tolerances are not as good as they should be, with the end result in increased friction - (just a guess)

wiggum

Your information is horribly inaccurate...

Read This

And to be honest if you are upset about a reflash on the Speed6 you have horrible expectations, they debuted a brand new engine in the car and a little bit of tuning from Mazda is more than acceptable...

If you don't have the reflash I know why your car drives like it does.... the Mazdaspeed6 is terrible underrated....

That Mazdaspeed3 dyno is pretty pathetic, but I Have yet to see the exact changes Mazda made to the car...

balefire

iTrader: (2)

VW seems to have the opposite problem. Many people have dyno'd their '06 GTI/GLI at 195 hp -> making 225 hp at the wheel. This is before the "chipping" that lets us get another 15-20 hp. Combine that with the torque hp curve in comparison to the MS3, and I don't have regrets with my wife's GLI.

DARKMAZ8

I rather have that problem ^
l

VikingDJ

Apparently your information isn't all that accurate either if my information isn't accurate, as I got mine the same exact way you did on various car forums. This engine and these cars have many varied results. I've seen the dynos you have , but I've seen a lot more 220whp dynos then 240+ dynos, so I'm basing what I've researched as being more accurate. I could easily link you to a forum that shows 220whp dynos all day, and some people even at 210-215whp. Many people claim that the reflash slowed their car down, and they want the original flash back. The Speed 6 runs low 14s, and 240whp is in the same whp range as your average STI, which runs low 13s.

Obviously some are putting out the expected HP, but there are a lot that are not. You just don't see consistent dynos in the 240 range, therefore the car isn't underrated overall. If you like I will show you many dynos that are like this MS3 dyno. There's just no way to accurately know anything. I don't want to turn this into a debate publicly, so if you want me to show you some baseline bone stock dynos showing 220whp and less on the Speed6, I will gladly do that. I have been told by many on the Mazdaspeed forum to NOT take my car in for the reflash. Many are complaining about it, and some are actually fighting with their dealerships, demanding that they get their old flash back.

They still have some work to do on this engine to get the power right. This is a lease, and I'm not upset at all by not having 240+whp in my car like some have. I'm not alone, as many are in the 220whp range. I just find it interesting that's all.

Ike

I don't know why Mazda is so clueless about tuning turbo 4 cylinders...

neit_jnf

Did anybody notice that there seems to be NO COOLING for the intercooler? Open hood, fan in the front, but it's a top mount!

check out this dyno (259.9 whp and 247wtq): http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showt...73#post2743973

that's more like it

Ike

Dynocom dynos tend to read high. Also, why didn't they just ice the IC down and spray some nitrous on it...

neit_jnf

mustangs read low, dynapack/dynocom read high... hmm ok but the torque numbers were the same...

and as far as cooling the IC, front mounts get air from the front fans, what's wrong with supplying air to the top mount? How are wrx/sti's dynoed, no air for the IC?

On the street the IC gets constant cooling air while the car is moving, it should get air at the dyno to simulate this. No air on the IC means high intake air temps, retarded timing, lower boost, etc which results in less power.

Ike

The IC design on the MS3 doesn't get nearly as much air with the hood closed and the car driving around as it would with the hood opened and a highpowered fan blowing directly on it. Under normal driving conditions the IC on the MS3 is more like an interwarmer...

I've seen Dynocom dynos read as much as 40whp higher than dynojets on cars with less than 350whp. Put all those factors together and you have an unrealistic dyno number.

neit_jnf

maybe the MS3 should be dynoed with the hood closed and a high power fan in front...

have anyone done an airflow measurement and core temperature distribution or heat transfer rate analysis for the MS6/MS3 tmic and duct design while the car moves? Didn't think so...

so, how are other top mount ic cars dynoed? are those dynos wrong too?

rotary crazy

in my expirience the ms6 dyno's 240+ whp and 275+ wtq, we have dyno the 2 cars that are in my town and they show pretty similar results

the ms6 weights 3600lbs if it is able to run a 14 flat it is consisten with this power output, and I have seeng it run 13.9 and 13.8

VikingDJ

Perhaps that may be true, but on that very same dyno you might see EVOS and STIs dynoing at 260-270whp. There are too many Speed 6 dynos showing 215-225whp, so it appears there is some work to be done on this tuning. I showed that 259whp dyno on the STI forum, and it has created a huge stir. They are starting to bash the Speed 3 (calling it another SRT-4), saying it doesn't have anywhere hear 240whp let alone 259, and that the STI would trounce it in any type of racing. That was to be expected of course.

rotary crazy

the thing is, most speed6 I have seing on track run at or under the 14 second mark, if you take the 3,600lbs the car weights, you see that the car if anything its underrated, now Im not sayng that you guys are lying but "bad" cars will show up from time to time and bad dyno tuning, if you go to the 350z forum you will see alot of diferences in one dyno to the other, and that is a normally aspirated engine that is less influence by its soroundings

one more thing the intercooler on the speed6 sucks monkey *****, after you dyno the car a couple of times if you dont put ice or something on it the car will dyno completly diferent, and you really need good fans