FS: Cobb AccessPORT for 2005 Mazda RX-8 + MazdaManiac files
02-09-2010, 04:17 PM
#52
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I am not saying what he is doing is wrong, I understand he wants to protect his properties. However, someone wants to sell his Cobb AP here, just let them. Whoever buy it goes up to MM asking for map could be told afterward that he will not support second hand use and they will have to repurchase or whatever. There is no need to drop in doodoo in people's FS thread. If the person is really interested in MM AP, he/she should already know that the extra money will be necessary to purchase new map otherwise F OFF.
02-09-2010, 04:35 PM
#55
Obviously they have value or people like the OP would use them as a selling point to increase the value of their item.
I think I might start adding a free Avatar Subscription Service to the AccessPORT from now on as a value-adder.
02-10-2010, 02:04 AM
#57
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Laythor, I think you just helped me have an epiphany; for too long I have been placing our customers' interests above BHR's, even when it causes us to lose money, and that may be where my $$$$$$ has been going all this time.
****!
Gimme that classified employment section of the newspaper, will ya?
****!
Gimme that classified employment section of the newspaper, will ya?
Hey now, I did buy more from you when I found out you took a loss on a part, even though it could have been bought cheaper.
02-10-2010, 04:44 AM
#59
Besides, I don't begrudge a brother for going where they find the cheapest price. With some easily acquired stuff that is really all that needs to matter.
Then, there are other types of parts that one may want to consider from WHOM they are buying so as to get the kind of after-sale support they may want/need during the installation thereof.
02-10-2010, 07:48 AM
#61
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Okay, so since we're talking about after-sale support and all that, will mazda maniac be lowering his price to 495, to restore his tuning 'At no additional cost' policy?
I'd certainly consider that.
How low can the op go on an accessport shipped to canadia.
I'd certainly consider that.
How low can the op go on an accessport shipped to canadia.
02-10-2010, 11:49 AM
#62
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Disclaimer, I'm no lawyer by any means but I like talking for the sake of talking, so I'm pretty sure copyright doesn't apply here.
Example, Gamestop sells new and used games, publishers get nothing out of the sale of a used game and there is nothing legally they can do about it even though their content is copyrighted. Same with anything else used like books. Once its sold to another user he has every right to resell it.
Example, Gamestop sells new and used games, publishers get nothing out of the sale of a used game and there is nothing legally they can do about it even though their content is copyrighted. Same with anything else used like books. Once its sold to another user he has every right to resell it.
02-10-2010, 12:05 PM
#63
Disclaimer, I'm no lawyer by any means but I like talking for the sake of talking, so I'm pretty sure copyright doesn't apply here.
Example, Gamestop sells new and used games, publishers get nothing out of the sale of a used game and there is nothing legally they can do about it even though their content is copyrighted. Same with anything else used like books. Once its sold to another user he has every right to resell it.
Example, Gamestop sells new and used games, publishers get nothing out of the sale of a used game and there is nothing legally they can do about it even though their content is copyrighted. Same with anything else used like books. Once its sold to another user he has every right to resell it.
Games and software typically have a hardware-tied usage clause. The person that legally possesses the disk possesses the license to the software. The disk is all the purchaser actually owns - not the software, movie or music.
In the case of my calibrations, I license the use of the software to the original purchaser and they agree to that license by accepting the calibration.
The purchaser retains the use of the calibration as long as they continue to use the AccessPORT. Once the AccessPORT changes hands, the calibration goes back to the original owner - me.
Its pretty clearly laid out in the copyright notice that is displayed on the AccessPORT screen when you install the calibration as well as on my purchase page.
The data contained in this PCM flash is the property of MazdaManiac and is licensed for single use ONLY. No portion of this PCM callibration may be copied, transported, permutated or adapted for any other use without the expressed written consent of MazdaManiac. All rights reserved. ©2010 Jeff Abrams for MazdaManiac.com
Last edited by MazdaManiac; 02-10-2010 at 12:07 PM.
02-10-2010, 12:47 PM
#64
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Its all about the licensing.
Games and software typically have a hardware-tied usage clause. The person that legally possesses the disk possesses the license to the software. The disk is all the purchaser actually owns - not the software, movie or music.
In the case of my calibrations, I license the use of the software to the original purchaser and they agree to that license by accepting the calibration.
The purchaser retains the use of the calibration as long as they continue to use the AccessPORT. Once the AccessPORT changes hands, the calibration goes back to the original owner - me.
Its pretty clearly laid out in the copyright notice that is displayed on the AccessPORT screen when you install the calibration as well as on my purchase page.
Games and software typically have a hardware-tied usage clause. The person that legally possesses the disk possesses the license to the software. The disk is all the purchaser actually owns - not the software, movie or music.
In the case of my calibrations, I license the use of the software to the original purchaser and they agree to that license by accepting the calibration.
The purchaser retains the use of the calibration as long as they continue to use the AccessPORT. Once the AccessPORT changes hands, the calibration goes back to the original owner - me.
Its pretty clearly laid out in the copyright notice that is displayed on the AccessPORT screen when you install the calibration as well as on my purchase page.
02-10-2010, 12:54 PM
#65
The calibrations are self-enforcing, anyway.
If you tried to install a customized calibration from one vehicle on another - even if it was the same year/model and had the same mods - you would have some, shall we say, "interesting" results.
Besides, I don't need the courts. I know where the customers live and I have "the keys" so to speak to their car.
If you tried to install a customized calibration from one vehicle on another - even if it was the same year/model and had the same mods - you would have some, shall we say, "interesting" results.
Besides, I don't need the courts. I know where the customers live and I have "the keys" so to speak to their car.
02-10-2010, 12:55 PM
#66
Huge hole is huge
02-10-2010, 01:07 PM
#67
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But like I said before, I'm only here to discuss things because I like legal discussions, not like I have a stake in any of this.
Edit:
This is why I don't think your EULA is enforceable (and historically EULA have not stood up in court that I am aware of)
"The first-sale doctrine is a limitation on copyright that was recognized by the U.S. Supreme Court in 1908 (see Bobbs-Merrill Co. v. Straus) and subsequently codified in the Copyright Act of 1976, 17 U.S.C. § 109. The doctrine allows the purchaser to transfer (i.e., sell or give away) a particular lawfully made copy of the copyrighted work without permission once it has been obtained."
Last edited by Riley Craven; 02-10-2010 at 01:18 PM.
02-10-2010, 01:30 PM
#69
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Ah, that is indeed a good point (and one I had not previously considered). That would probably you get you through most situations, but I guess the very existence of this thread proves that that reasoning is not entirely fool proof
02-10-2010, 02:10 PM
#70
This is purely about the seller giving the impression that I am somehow "endorsing" their sale by giving it more value than it actually has.
02-10-2010, 02:15 PM
#71
Just out of reference to the above situation:
http://www.computerworlduk.com/manag...m?newsid=16946
It was ruled that it's perfectly legal to sell any software that you've purchased, and that software is owned and not simply "licensed". The catch is that if you sell it, you give up your rights to it's usage.
Not trying to argue against you Jeff, I'll be buying an AP from you soon enough on my own, but it may be important to note (coming from another programmer) that you may want to rethink "ownership" in regards to software.
Besides... car specific checks would probably be pretty easy to reverse out of the software if someone was actually bored and talented enough to do it. It's easy to trace execution paths.
None the less, keep up the good work Jeff. I'm sure I'll be working with you soon on my own AP.
EDIT:
However, do you have to support the new owner, no. Nothing says you do.
He can sell the maps you provided, but as you've stated, they wont work.
http://www.computerworlduk.com/manag...m?newsid=16946
It was ruled that it's perfectly legal to sell any software that you've purchased, and that software is owned and not simply "licensed". The catch is that if you sell it, you give up your rights to it's usage.
"A person who buys a home is nonetheless restricted in his use and subsequent transfer of the home by property laws, zoning ordinances, and fair housing statutes," Judge Richard Jones wrote in his ruling. "No one would characterize the person's possession, however, as something other than ownership. Similarly, the court cannot characterize Autodesk's decision to let its licensees retain possession of the software forever as something other than a transfer of ownership, despite numerous restrictions on that ownership."
Besides... car specific checks would probably be pretty easy to reverse out of the software if someone was actually bored and talented enough to do it. It's easy to trace execution paths.
None the less, keep up the good work Jeff. I'm sure I'll be working with you soon on my own AP.
EDIT:
However, do you have to support the new owner, no. Nothing says you do.
He can sell the maps you provided, but as you've stated, they wont work.
02-10-2010, 02:32 PM
#72
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Well, no - this thread is about something else: The use of my name (and my product) as a value-added service to someone's sale item without permission.
This is purely about the seller giving the impression that I am somehow "endorsing" their sale by giving it more value than it actually has.
This is purely about the seller giving the impression that I am somehow "endorsing" their sale by giving it more value than it actually has.
Basically, you'd only have a complaint if the seller was selling something from which you did not make and attached your name to. Aka he was stealing your brand. Since this is not the case it appears you don't really have a legal leg to stand on so to speak.
02-10-2010, 02:48 PM
#73
He is selling an AccessPORT. I didn't make that. That is Cobb.
He can sell the device all he wants.
However, the calibration that was made for his car belongs to me and is licensed to only to the OP.
Not only can he not sell his license, but it is dishonest to imply to a potential buyer that the aforementioned calibrations would work on their car or would be allowed to be installed on their car.
The seller is implying that this particular AccessPORT is imbued with the added value of a MazdaManiac calibration and it is not.
You guys are confusing how a EULA works, especially with regards to proprietary software.
Last edited by MazdaManiac; 02-10-2010 at 02:50 PM.
02-10-2010, 02:49 PM
#74
If the "MazdaManiac Calibration" will not work on another RX-8 isn't the OP engaging in deceptive practices, either specifically or through inference? If it will work and will transfer from car-to-car, then screw it. It is one MM calibration and hardly worth the concern.
02-10-2010, 02:59 PM
#75
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Ahh, but there is the rub.
He is selling an AccessPORT. I didn't make that. That is Cobb.
He can sell the device all he wants.
However, the calibration that was made for his car belongs to me and is licensed to only to the OP.
Not only can he not sell his license, but it is dishonest to imply to a potential buyer that the aforementioned calibrations would work on their car or would be allowed to be installed on their car.
The seller is implying that this particular AccessPORT is imbued with the added value of a MazdaManiac calibration and it is not.
You guys are confusing how a EULA works, especially with regards to proprietary software.
He is selling an AccessPORT. I didn't make that. That is Cobb.
He can sell the device all he wants.
However, the calibration that was made for his car belongs to me and is licensed to only to the OP.
Not only can he not sell his license, but it is dishonest to imply to a potential buyer that the aforementioned calibrations would work on their car or would be allowed to be installed on their car.
The seller is implying that this particular AccessPORT is imbued with the added value of a MazdaManiac calibration and it is not.
You guys are confusing how a EULA works, especially with regards to proprietary software.
Further to the point, neither of us are confusing anything. You do not have the ability to take rights away from someone else just because you wrote a licensing agreement.
Honestly, if you're so sure you have this ability, put your money on it and sue the guy.