byako

iTrader: (1)

Ok, so after numerous times of searching, going through every page of the suspension forum and even asking around, I still have not seemed to find the answer to my question. So I think I need to generalize my question and make it into pieces to find the answer I'm looking for.

At first I was asking around to see if the Bilsteins from the R3 that I have will fit on my 05' Rx-8. And from the searches I've done, it seems that they will indeed fit.

Then came the question of what lowering springs to use. But it seems people are having problems with what springs to go with because it would do the opposite of lowering and/or no change in height just in the rears.

I've seen a member on here with B&G spring (a heavily modded VR R3) that looked quite good, and a few with Teins but mentioned how the front was lowered but the rears were raised.

So I have 2 questions.

1.) Putting aside the fact that this setup will be on my 05' for a moment, what springs gave the members with 09+ a lower stance BOTH in front and rear? I want a low stance but want to keep it functional as well. Which is why I was looking into the Tein S Tech or the Tanabe GF210's. They are both pretty reputable companies with a two of the lowest drops that are still functional for our cars. Pictures will be awesome, but then again, won't do me much good since I am putting it on an 05.

2.) If I were to run the Bilsteins as they are, with the stock springs on my 05, do you think it will sit the same, or would it still sit higher in the rears due to the 15mm higher perch? I'm not an expert on suspension and such so I have no idea. All I know is that they will fit on an 05', but not sure what will happen when they are installed.

If anyone can shed some light on either questions that would be great. I know coilovers would be the best option but at the same time, I don't have the money and I also daily drive it so it's not preferable for the harsh roads here.

Thank you in advance!

Roen

Search stock perch S2 for hints.

PJLyons

iTrader: (3)

I looked around and can't figure out what kind of Bilstein's are on the R3, do you know if they are close to the HD or are they more like the PSS9 Coilovers? I just put Bilstein HD on my '04 with stock springs and it is about the same height as far as I can tell (I can't tell you for sure because I didn't measure).

jrx13

I don't get all that talk about S1 lowering springs not lowering their S2s. I installed S1 Swift Sport springs on my S2 (not R3) and it lowered just fine.




Here's a before pic: (UNCOOL)


And couple after pics: (COOL) (for those old enough to remember the old Eibach ads)












As far as the question about R3 Bilsteins, pretty sure they are nothing like PSS9's. But I wouldn't know how they are valved or any specs on them. PSS9's are a threaded body shock/coil over setup.

mistahjg

[ATTACH][/ATTACH]

dropped, r3,

Moby

iTrader: (6)

Hey mistahjg, what springs did you use to drop your r3? Would Eibach pro springs work?

wazup_shorty

Its been a long time and no one seems to know the right anwser, I bought a set of Tein S from a local brand new for 160$, Im im deciding if Im installing just the front because I dont want the rear to be raised you know.

info I colected: seems that its "will" raise the rear of any S1 specific spring installed on a S2.... but any S2? or just R3 or non-R3?

2nd point proving point one that Ive researche is that Koni has a different part# for the rear springs on S2, (again r3? non-r3 specific?)

as anyone got the whole picture on this, an update would be much apreciated and maybe a sticky in this section too?

thanks

Moby

iTrader: (6)

To my knowledge, the R3 has a 10 or 15 mm perch in the rear, I'm not sure which but you get the picture. Because the shock is a little be higher seated, thanks to the perch, the stock rear spring is a bit bigger to compensate. As such, using lowering springs designed for the SI 8 will actually LOWER the rear more than it was intended. I too have some Tein S-Techs that I plan on installing this weekend and I'll let you know how they work out.

wazup_shorty

Alright thanks, from what I heard its the oposite, the perch would be 1.5in higher (or 15mm? that would be another game if its mm) stock the spring would be shorter and installing a S1 spring that drop less that the 1.5in, (again if its mm it might not be as much an issue, it would bring us to 0.59in higher) it would raise

most spring drop around 0.4 to 1in in the rear, the S tech being 0.7 it think, if it is in mm (and 15mm is the right number) we would get a 0.1in drop in the rear, if it sits 1.5IN (and not mm) the rear would raise 0.8IN higher than stock

Moby

iTrader: (6)

Check these threads out.

https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-discuss...-my-r3-206602/

https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-discuss...ies-ii-210447/

wazup_shorty

alright Thanks, never came up those threads but comfirms that a S1 spring on a S2 shock in the rear will drop more than advertise, not by much.

Ill be installing the S-tech in a week or 2, ill take some precid mesurements of the fender height from the ground, before and after, maybe a question of preloading less in the rear could get us too ajust to the proper height?

Moby

iTrader: (6)

I installed my rear springs yesterday and they definitely dropped the car good. I didn't have time to get the front springs on though, but I'll get them later this week.

wazup_shorty

Any ajustements made to the bump stop? For longer strut travel? May not aply to us just read about having to cut those on some setups

Moby

iTrader: (6)

I didn't modify the bump stops at all. Is that necessary? I know Racing Beat includes it in their instructions but I figured that was for their product.

wazup_shorty

If you didnt bottom out on normal driving you should be ok. Where im from road are bad so ill see once install them

Orthonormal

All Series 2 RX-8s including the R3 have higher spring seats in the rear. If you doubt that, I refer you to a photo of the rear shocks from an S1 and an S2 car.

The result of that is that if you install springs designed for a Series 1 car on a Series 2 car, the rear end will be higher than if you had installed them on a Series 1 car. The amount that the rear is higher is about 1.4 times the difference in the spring seat height, so if the spring seat height is 15mm higher, then the ride height will be 21mm higher. (Based on a motion ratio of 0.84.)

The R3 Bilsteins are neither HD nor PSS, they're specially made for Mazda. Externally, I believe that they're similar to the Bilsteins on the Shinka and 40th Anniversary model. Internally, the valving is unique to the R3.

Moby

iTrader: (6)

Does modifying the bump stops give you more of a drop? Would increased strut travel result in further compression during the preolading?

r2rs

Looking to get lowering springs for my r3. Just not sure which ones will make me have a better stance and handling all around. I would have them installed on the stock bilsteins. My choices are tein s-techs, tanabe gf210, or Megan lowering springs. I would love to have coilovers but I don't track my car so I feel like it would be pointless. Any thoughts or opinions welcome. Anybody have any of the above springs on stock bilsteins and how were they?

blacksheep515

iTrader: (1)

Well, I am a n00b myself, but from my searching - it seems as though all lowering springs out there were designed for the S1.

For the S2 models, including the R3 (which I also have), the lower spring perch is mounted differently on the rear OEM dampers and Bilsteins. So, if you use a spring for the S1, it does not sit correctly in the rear.

If you want the car to sit correctly with the S1 springs, you have a few options such as buying Konis or S1 Tokico and so on. Are they better than bilstein, I don't know. I would guess the Koni OTS strut is.

I need to research more if the Koni is better than the Bilstein HD. I know it can handle the Swift Springs as well. So, I may go this route or just coilovers.

Personally, all the lowering spring experience I have, I would say run from Tein, Megan and Tanabe. The only lowering spring I would buy is Swift Sport Machs for the RX-8.

r2rs

I have had s-techs on both my EVO 9 RS and my legacy gt and I loved them but I've seen that on rx8s the back sits a little lower than the front so I'm a little worried about that if I get the s-techs

blacksheep515

iTrader: (1)

The S-tech is purely a stance spring - they are soft, too low and 9 times out of 10 impact suspension geometry. So, may be Ok for what you are using, but you will need camber aids, most likely. I have owned 5 Evo's, 3 S2000s and myriad of honda/acuras which have all been modified since I am in the auto parts biz, so I can tell you personally the tein s-tech is not a well-engineered spring.

fuztupnz

iTrader: (4)

your experience fails you here. S-techs offer a moderate at best drop, Are one of the stiffest springs available for the rx8, and are easily the most popular springs on this forum. As far as engineering goes, i've yet to see any complaints aside from people with knockoffs. Mine have suited me just fine for 3 years, including multiple autox's and a weekend track event.

OP. the s-techs are designed for S1 cars which have a different rear spring perch height. They give an s1 even wheel gap front to rear. On an S2 your rear will sit a little higher than the front becuase of this. I haven't looked lately, so be sure that they have an s2 specific part number before considering them. The megans are crap imho. If i recall, the the tanabe's are a little softer and have a less staggered drop front to rear, so they'll likely sit evenly on your R3.

200.mph

iTrader: (9)

i have stechs on koni yellows and my car sits level, looks great and handles awesome

blacksheep515

iTrader: (1)

Perhaps I am wrong, but I am speaking for teins on a whole level, not RX8 specific. I stand corrected if they work for the RX8 - like I a said I am a n00b to this car and learn a lot daily on here. So, thanks for the correction.

Anyways - Here is my spring rate collection and drops from searches here. These are just my observations of the data:


Mazdaspeed: 280/190 - Drop .8"/.8"
Swift: 207/129 - Drop .8"/.8"
Tein S-Tech: 207/145 - Drop = 1.4"/0.7"
Progress: 205/145 - Drop 1.2 F .8 R
H&R: 195/141 (progressive) - Drop = 1.0"/1.0"
Racing Beat: 187/136 - Drop = 0.5"/0.5"
Eibach: 180/130 (progressive) - Drop = 1.2"/0.8"
Tein H-Tech: 179/129 - Drop = 1.0"/0.3"
Tanabe GF: 179/146 - Drop = 1.4"/1.2"
Tanabe NF: 162/112 - Drop = 1.4"/1.2"

- The Tein S-tech and Tanabe drops the front the lowest.
- Tanabe drops the front and rear the lowest.
- Swift and mazdaspeed heights are identical.
- Mazdaspeed has some really high spring rates. Not sure if this is truly correct!
- Racing Beat is the lowest drop height
- Racing Beat, Mazdaspeed, H&R and Swift are the only ones who do even drop height maintaining factory rake.

fuztupnz

iTrader: (4)

Nah you're cool man, the rx-8 is a different beast compared to even past RX vehicles. Your car knowledge will honestly do you well, but some stuff fails to translate to the rx8 and goes against conventional thinking/wisdom. Almost all of the springs out there tend to drop the car more than advertised. HR for example usually drop it ~2" It's awesome that you did some research though. You're gonna fit in and have a good time here.

The springs with staggered drops tend to even out the wheel gap on S1 cars because the stock springs leave the front with quite a bit more gap than the rear. With revised rear perches on the S2's they tend to have more even factory gap, so the staggered drops of a lot of springs leave the front lower than the back. It's an odd car.

I'm not a huge tein fan myself, but they do work well on the rx8. It's the opposite for H&R which is hugely popular in the euro car world but are soft and a big drop for the rx8