Yet Another High RPM Flutter... - Page 4 - RX8Club.com

Notices
Series II Technical and Trouble shooting Discuss technical details for the Series II RX-8 and any issues or problems you are facing

Yet Another High RPM Flutter...

Old 07-15-2012, 01:35 PM
  #76  
Maude Rater
Thread Starter
iTrader: (15)
 
paimon.soror's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Between Cones
Posts: 7,562
Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts
btw it looks like the line with less VAC goes to the Jet Air Fuel Mixing Nozzle
paimon.soror is offline  
Old 07-15-2012, 07:18 PM
  #77  
Registered
 
Digger1911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: San Diego
Posts: 213
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
WAG.. Even though you still have the screens in place, is it possible there is excessive turbulence right before the MAF bulb inside the CAI? Which in turn is causing the MAF to send inaccurate reading to PCM.?

Do you still have the stock air box?

In a few cases I have seen low coolant levels cause the engine coolant sensor output to
fluctuate, and put system in open loop.(quick check- unplug coolant sensor.

Last edited by Digger1911; 07-18-2012 at 02:06 PM.
Digger1911 is offline  
Old 07-15-2012, 08:04 PM
  #78  
Maude Rater
Thread Starter
iTrader: (15)
 
paimon.soror's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Between Cones
Posts: 7,562
Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts
Originally Posted by Digger1911 View Post
WAG.. Even though you still have the screens in place, is it possible there is excessive turbulence right before the MAF bulb inside the CAI? Which in turn is causing the MAF to send inaccurate reading to PCM.?

Do you still have the stock air box?
nope, aem. It was doing this with the oem as well so I can rule that out.


In a few cases I have seen low coolant levels cause the coolant sensor output to
fluctuate, and put system in open loop.(quick check- unplug coolant sensor.
k, after unplugging it what should I do. Out of curiosity I did unplug it earlier today, and plugged it back in to make sure it was seated properly.

I refilled fuel today, didn't put any premix in though. I am wondering if maybe I am starving the engine by using too much premix. I have been using 6oz premix, 1oz FP Plus. I figure it will take a bit for the newer ratio of fuel to premix to start being fed into the engine.
paimon.soror is offline  
Old 07-15-2012, 08:17 PM
  #79  
Super Moderator
 
ASH8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 10,612
Thanked 146 Times in 104 Posts
The 'too much pre-mix' did cross my mind...as a 'maybe'.

It pays to fill with gas ONLY every 5 or 6 fills to dilute the pre-mix in gas left behind when you do normal refills/add premix....much depends on how low gas gets when you re-fill and your premix add calculations.

Coolant Sensor, has NO correlation whatsoever to your issue, it is a 'level' warning light, that is all, unplugged, plugged in, or 'a' defective sensor has no effect on the engine management.
ASH8 is offline  
Old 07-15-2012, 08:27 PM
  #80  
Maude Rater
Thread Starter
iTrader: (15)
 
paimon.soror's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Between Cones
Posts: 7,562
Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts
Originally Posted by ASH8 View Post
The 'too much pre-mix' did cross my mind...as a 'maybe'.

It pays to fill with gas ONLY every 5 or 6 fills to dilute the pre-mix in gas left behind when you do normal refills/add premix....much depends on how low gas gets when you re-fill and your premix add calculations.

Coolant Sensor, has NO correlation whatsoever to your issue, it is a 'level' warning light, that is all, unplugged, plugged in, or 'a' defective sensor has no effect on the engine management.
Yea I mean I know a lot of the S1 guys use a significant amount of premix on their cars (upwards of 8oz on some daily drivers), but maybe us S2 owners dont need as much since we have that 3rd oil injector. Over here the highest octane we have is 93, so maybe I am just killing off the octane levels with the amount of premix I am putting in. It will be interesting to see how the next week goes.
paimon.soror is offline  
Old 07-15-2012, 08:41 PM
  #81  
Registered
 
Digger1911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: San Diego
Posts: 213
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
ASH8, Coolant Temp Sensor,B59318840A, not talking about level sensor.
Attached Thumbnails Yet Another High RPM Flutter...-ect-sensor-connector.jpg  

Last edited by Digger1911; 07-15-2012 at 09:09 PM.
Digger1911 is offline  
Old 07-15-2012, 08:43 PM
  #82  
Maude Rater
Thread Starter
iTrader: (15)
 
paimon.soror's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Between Cones
Posts: 7,562
Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts
ASH, any significant differences between removign the UIM of a S1 and S2? I took pics along the way when i removed my UIM during diagnosis, didn't know if it was worthy of a DIY.


Originally Posted by Digger1911 View Post
ASH8, Coolant Temp Sensor,B59318840A, not talking about level sensor.
Oh i misinterpreted as well. I haven't tried this.
paimon.soror is offline  
Old 07-15-2012, 08:54 PM
  #83  
Super Moderator
 
ASH8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 10,612
Thanked 146 Times in 104 Posts
Originally Posted by Digger1911 View Post
ASH8, Coolant Temp Sensor,B59318840A, not talking about level sensor.
OK..Yes..these don't give issues normally, and if it was defective both dash temp and red LED RPM temps would not work correctly.
ASH8 is offline  
Old 07-15-2012, 09:03 PM
  #84  
Super Moderator
 
ASH8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 10,612
Thanked 146 Times in 104 Posts
No real difference, except TB one (intake) has one less/different breather hose for the S2 specific black Oil Filler chamber unit.

And some of the 'vac'/breather lines are different plus the EMOP Oil return pipe clicks into this oil chamber neck.
ASH8 is offline  
Old 07-15-2012, 10:48 PM
  #85  
RX8. Yeah, I get it.
iTrader: (1)
 
RX8pwnage's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: West Lafayette, IN
Posts: 454
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
sounds like its misfiring while just idling to me....or maybe im hearing things. Have you checked to make sure the screens are seated correctly in the intake tube?

edit: i read above, apparently you have checked.

Last edited by RX8pwnage; 07-15-2012 at 10:50 PM.
RX8pwnage is offline  
Old 07-16-2012, 07:39 AM
  #86  
Registered
iTrader: (2)
 
HiFlite999's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: MI
Posts: 2,254
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
My car will also burble at idle depending on what mood it's in. I use 8 oz/13 gallons without difficulty; 8/1664 = 0.46% which is way far from being enough to lean the a/f. Many premix oil, rather few add fuel cleaner at every fillup, though.

Fuel starvation remains a possibility. Fuel pump of course, but also clogging of the sock over the gas pickup and possibly clogging or malfunction of the P2 or S1 injectors.

It remains an odd coincidence that the stumble happens right when the VFAD should open. Did you cap the vacuum port on the UIM or down somewhere past the VFAD actuator?
HiFlite999 is offline  
Old 07-16-2012, 08:03 AM
  #87  
Maude Rater
Thread Starter
iTrader: (15)
 
paimon.soror's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Between Cones
Posts: 7,562
Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts
Originally Posted by HiFlite999 View Post
It remains an odd coincidence that the stumble happens right when the VFAD should open. Did you cap the vacuum port on the UIM or down somewhere past the VFAD actuator?
I did, I have a cap on the nipple on the throttle body. But remember that this used to happen before any modifications to the stock intake system.

It would be interesting if it is indeed the fuel pump. I dont know for certain, but I have yet to hear of an S2 pump failing. From what I can remember, the S2 pump is far superior to the S1 pump. That doesn't mean that it cannot fail, but I would think unlikely at 10k miles. Not to mention I never run my fuel far into the red. Only a few times have I seen my low fuel light on.
paimon.soror is offline  
Old 07-17-2012, 03:39 PM
  #88  
Registered
 
LBrown8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: newfoundland
Posts: 156
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
My flutter has been solved, like I said, My coolant sensor plug was unplugged my the dealer to mask a faulty coolant reservoir and "coolant carrosel light" Plugged it back , reset kam,nvram and drove 3 days and problem solved. It remapped my complete computer into thinking it was overheating so it put the car in walk mode.
LBrown8 is offline  
Old 07-17-2012, 04:12 PM
  #89  
Super Moderator
 
ASH8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 10,612
Thanked 146 Times in 104 Posts
Originally Posted by LBrown8 View Post
My flutter has been solved, like I said, My coolant sensor plug was unplugged my the dealer to mask a faulty coolant reservoir and "coolant carrosel light" Plugged it back , reset kam,nvram and drove 3 days and problem solved. It remapped my complete computer into thinking it was overheating so it put the car in walk mode.
OK.......?? (your ECU reset possibly fixed your issue, not what you said before that..)

Can we at least get the interpretation correct...

The Coolant LEVEL Sensor inside the Coolant Bottle has NO, repeat NO, control over engine management..none..

It is only for the dash 'radiator' idiot light...you can unplug it, no light, no issues, except you wont get any warning light if and when coolant in bottle is low, and or engine or radiator.

This Coolant Level Sensor in the Coolant Bottle is the ONLY sensor which warns of low engine coolant from the Coolant Bottle...NO 'CEL' or DTC reported.

.......................................

Now..what others call Coolant Sensors for Engine/Coolant temperature is a different issue and beast, and not easily disconnected/renewed...

I prefer to call them "Temperature Sender Units", because that is what they are and do.

IF this becomes defective (which can happen) or is disconnected, then yes, issues will occur, like no working temp gauge on dash, no 2 red RPM LED off (S2's), ECU (PCM) unable to monitor engine/coolant temps, CEL light will result and possibly LIMP mode and or performance issues.

These Temperature Sender Units (B593-18-840A) are very reliable and have been in use since 1991 on a multitude of Mazda models from Mazda 626,323,Protege, CX-7, Mazda 2,3, B and T series trucks, Miata's..RX-8...and well before current OBD management DTC protocols.
ASH8 is offline  
Old 07-17-2012, 04:23 PM
  #90  
Maude Rater
Thread Starter
iTrader: (15)
 
paimon.soror's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Between Cones
Posts: 7,562
Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts
Ok well my flutter has been resolved.

Turns out the issue here was that for some reason my spark plug wires not only got dirt inside of them, but didn't have a solid connection to my coil packs. So I fixed up the wires, cleaned them out, reconnected, and made sure idle was good.

Once that was set, I followed TeamRX8's spark testing instructions to verify all coils were firing properly. Once I confirmed each coilpack, I took her for a drive .... flutter gone.


My name is paimon, and I am a newb.
paimon.soror is offline  
Old 07-17-2012, 04:36 PM
  #91  
Registered
iTrader: (46)
 
9krpmrx8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 33,737
Thanked 328 Times in 267 Posts
Geesh. Well, you learned something at least.
9krpmrx8 is offline  
Old 07-17-2012, 04:40 PM
  #92  
Phone Booth'd
iTrader: (4)
 
fuztupnz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Cincinnasty
Posts: 2,441
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
fuztupnz is offline  
Old 07-18-2012, 01:46 PM
  #93  
Registered
 
LBrown8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: newfoundland
Posts: 156
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Paimon, what did you actually use to clean your spark plug wires
LBrown8 is offline  
Old 07-18-2012, 05:44 PM
  #94  
2009 RX-8 Touring
 
fyrstormer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Gaithersburg, MD USA
Posts: 574
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
In case you aren't aware, spark plug wires usually have boots that can be slid back on the wire -- and are supposed to be slid back -- so the end of the wire can be confirmed to firmly clip onto the electrical terminal. Only then should the boot be slid forward to cover the connection.

Lots of people just jam the spark plug wires into place and if they don't pop off, they "must" be seated properly.
fyrstormer is offline  
Old 07-18-2012, 05:54 PM
  #95  
Maude Rater
Thread Starter
iTrader: (15)
 
paimon.soror's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Between Cones
Posts: 7,562
Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts
Originally Posted by LBrown8 View Post
Paimon, what did you actually use to clean your spark plug wires
MAF sensor cleaner. Safest bet when cleaning spark plug wires.
paimon.soror is offline  
Old 07-23-2012, 02:23 PM
  #96  
Registered
 
jrx13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 590
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
LOL!

I told you it was ignition misfire!
jrx13 is offline  
Old 08-01-2012, 10:59 PM
  #97  
Registered
 
LBrown8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: newfoundland
Posts: 156
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Revive this thread.

So the flutter has came back! it went away for a while and now it is back, WTF is all i can say I use 93 octane , i have a turboxs exhaust with racepipe and aem intake, i have a popping at idle(thought it was missfirin) but the fllutter is back coils and wires all work , plugs all seem to be in good shape!
LBrown8 is offline  
Old 08-01-2012, 11:27 PM
  #98  
Super Moderator
 
ASH8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 10,612
Thanked 146 Times in 104 Posts
Have a look at the latest M-Tip I posted, idle dip or wandering due to intake screens and panels removed, according to MNAO.

I am just wondering 'IF' you could re-install your OE Intake, box and filter?, what will happen?

But your (flutter) is at high RPM..correct?

Either ignition or SSV.,,can you or do you run pre-mix, try that for a while and see "if' it might free up sticking SSV?
ASH8 is offline  
Old 08-02-2012, 10:14 AM
  #99  
Koi no Ousama
iTrader: (25)
 
TeamRX8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 20,551
Thanks: 0
Thanked 277 Times in 229 Posts
D585 coils and the OE dwell table do not a good combination make above 5000 rpm
TeamRX8 is offline  
Old 08-02-2012, 10:17 AM
  #100  
Maude Rater
Thread Starter
iTrader: (15)
 
paimon.soror's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Between Cones
Posts: 7,562
Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts
Originally Posted by TeamRX8 View Post
D585 coils and the OE dwell table do not a good combination make above 5000 rpm
sucks for us S2 guys I think this might be my main issue here, since my fluttering is back, only this time it looks like it is closer to 9k. I can easily pull to 9.5k (viewed on tach, not actual) though unlike before which maybe was caused by my poor wiring skills.
paimon.soror is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:
You have already rated this thread Rating: Thread Rating: 0 votes,  average.

Quick Reply: Yet Another High RPM Flutter...


Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

© 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.