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ONLY USE GENUINE Mazda OIL FILTERS in Series II (R3)

Old 01-13-2010, 02:34 AM
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Originally Posted by ASH8 View Post
I would ask yourself a few questions..
1. Why did Mazda increase the By Pass Valve (valve plate/spring) in the exclusive S2 Oil filter if it was not deemed to be necessary.??
Because, as they have for several years now, they under-size the filter media significantly, which causes a fair amount of pressure in the filter.
Bean counting - a slight increase in spring pressure is cheaper than adding many square inches of filter media surface area.
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Old 01-13-2010, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by much2saxy View Post
Bypass valves are really only activated by differential pressure. Differential pressure occurs when the pressure on the return side of the filter drops below the pressure on the feed side of the filter. The valve is not affected by overall system pressure. Your argument is moot.

It takes REALLY clogged filter media to produce more than a few psi of differential pressure, and this would not occur during normal driving conditions.
So, there are two points being overlooked in all the histrionics;

1) If total system pressure had ANYTHING to do with the bypass function, it would HAVE to be rated to more that what we are talking about here because the oiling system easily gets above 20 psi. Even with an S1 engine.

2) How much particulate matter must be filtered by the element before a substantial amount of pressure delta occurs, thus tripping the bypass function?

But I get even more ghetto than this; I have used **** oil filters, OEM oil filters, and expensive "performance" oil filters. I have also used all sorts of various viscosities and formulae of oil, both synthetic and mineral. In fact, my maintenence regimen would embarrass most of you if you were to see just how poorly I take care of my engine. However, my engine still starts with a mere tap of the starter, runs pretty friggin' good considering my compression is probably in the mid to low 7s, and all I do is make sure the air filter stays clean and the oil doesn't get black for too long before I change it. Hell, I don't even know at what mileage intervals I change the oil as I don't keep track!

I have no knocks at start-up, either.

Last edited by Charles R. Hill; 01-13-2010 at 07:34 AM.
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Old 01-13-2010, 11:57 AM
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To me it's like working out. Preventative maintenance.

It may all be for nothing, we will know for sure if/when this engines fails because I am committed to not skimping at all on this stuff. I am even using the same gas with no substitutions and I only fill up and ad premix, I don't add gas or premix in partial amounts. the only this I have changed is the 2 stroke used in my SOHN but I feel as long as its is a good 2 stroke it does not matter much. But it could all be a huge waste of time and money,

But for me it's actually fun and I enjoy it.
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Old 01-13-2010, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by PeteInLongBeach View Post
Is this a generic tool, or the Mazda factory filter tool?
I use my leather belt if they are stuck... works wonders.
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Old 01-13-2010, 03:35 PM
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IS there a good place to get S2 filters? Most parts places only get the S1. I guess I could visit the local auto parts store but they only know what the computer tells them...

Was hoping any of the online vendors could source these.
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Old 01-13-2010, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Charles R. Hill View Post

But I get even more ghetto than this; I have used **** oil filters, OEM oil filters, and expensive "performance" oil filters. I have also used all sorts of various viscosities and formulae of oil, both synthetic and mineral. In fact, my maintenence regimen would embarrass most of you if you were to see just how poorly I take care of my engine. However, my engine still starts with a mere tap of the starter, runs pretty friggin' good considering my compression is probably in the mid to low 7s, and all I do is make sure the air filter stays clean and the oil doesn't get black for too long before I change it. Hell, I don't even know at what mileage intervals I change the oil as I don't keep track!

I have no knocks at start-up, either.
I call foul! You can get away with this because you can rebuild your engine at the drop of a hat. My no skill level requires me to do things by the book to have a fighting chance keep the engine in good working order as long as possible.
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Old 01-13-2010, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by michaelsk8er View Post
IS there a good place to get S2 filters? Most parts places only get the S1. I guess I could visit the local auto parts store but they only know what the computer tells them...

Was hoping any of the online vendors could source these.

PM mazmart, they have the best deal.

www.mazmart.com
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Old 01-13-2010, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by MazdaManiac View Post
Because, as they have for several years now, they under-size the filter media significantly, which causes a fair amount of pressure in the filter.
Bean counting - a slight increase in spring pressure is cheaper than adding many square inches of filter media surface area.
Yes, as I have posted 0813-23-802 filters (28 years ago) were about 6 inches high and twice the diameter (can no longer buy them), but the By Pass Pressure was half that of the S2 Filter.

So it is more than just a slight increase, Mazda also increased the size of the filter over S1.

One can speculate..but..IMO
1. The smaller OEM filter was inadequate at filtering...remember Europe go 12,000 miles between service (same Filter).
2. And or they found the S1 Filter was By Passing, because it could not go the distance.

I say Both..
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Old 01-13-2010, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by plain ole ****** View Post
You can get away with this because you can rebuild your engine at the drop of a hat.
What makes you think that?
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Old 01-13-2010, 10:17 PM
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I thought I have seen on this site and read about many of your engine rebuilds for others here. Am I mistaken?
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Old 01-13-2010, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by plain ole ****** View Post
I thought I have seen on this site and read about many of your engine rebuilds for others here. Am I mistaken?
Just because I am pretty good at building these engines doesn't mean I have the money and/or time be careless with my own engine. My engine breaks, nothing gets done at BHR for a few days and I still have to pay for the parts as my RX-8 is my DD just like everyone else's. Perhaps you missed my point with my previous comments?
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Old 01-13-2010, 11:19 PM
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I wish Mazda would just freakin' come out and say why they made the changes they did.
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Old 01-13-2010, 11:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Charles R. Hill View Post
Just because I am pretty good at building these engines doesn't mean I have the money and/or time be careless with my own engine. My engine breaks, nothing gets done at BHR for a few days and I still have to pay for the parts as my RX-8 is my DD just like everyone else's. Perhaps you missed my point with my previous comments?
Some things just don't come across in post the way I sometimes mean them too this is one of them. I think I understand where your coming from about stating this engine is probably more reliable and we needn't be so **** about everything by stating your maintenance pattern. I was trying to say you have skills and if by some bad luck because of your maintenance occurs you can fix it yourself I cannot.
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Old 01-13-2010, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by 9krpmrx8 View Post
I wish Mazda would just freakin' come out and say why they made the changes they did.
This would be so nice help end a lot of debates on this site. However, Mazda would never do this in fear of litigation from S1 owners still under warranty/not under warranty and maybe having issues related to the changes not made on their vehicles.
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Old 01-14-2010, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by plain ole ****** View Post
1) Some things just don't come across in post the way I sometimes mean them too this is one of them. 2) I think I understand where your coming from about stating this engine is probably more reliable and we needn't be so **** about everything by stating your maintenance pattern. 3) I was trying to say you have skills and if by some bad luck because of your maintenance occurs you can fix it yourself I cannot.
1) Happens all the time and I have my own shortcomings in that regard. Over time, we all get to know each other and the inherent tones in the majority of our posts and misunderstandings fall bny the wayside.

2) Bingo! I am not saying that others should be as aloof about it as I have, just that my individual experience is a bit different and, speaking of building engines, I have failed to see many of the alleged "problems" that others so heavily discuss.

3) That is understood but BHR's premise isn't to run around helping people break their stuff. We break our OWN stuff but that is what you guys pay us to do.....
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Old 01-14-2010, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by plain ole ****** View Post
Mazda would never do this in fear of litigation from S1 owners still under warranty/not under warranty and maybe having issues related to the changes not made on their vehicles.
Every company reserves the right to make product improvements/redesigns and the only contract that matters is the one the individual has with Mazda regarding their own purchase and warranty terms. As such, Mazda owes no S1 owner any "updates" or explanations regarding what is/was done with the S2. I agree, that it would be nice for Mazda to discuss the matter but it may be covered in the "technical" section of the S2 factory service manual. You might be surprised by just how much Mazda discussed the changes made with the Renesis in the FSM for the 2004 model.
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Old 01-14-2010, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by 9krpmrx8 View Post
I wish Mazda would just freakin' come out and say why they made the changes they did.
Do they really need to??
I think you know why..

Mazda like most Japanese manufacturers gather all this info from Warranty Claims, Dealer reports..collate and then rectifies, some are done during production, more major ones are done at Face-lift time.

The Second Series of the current NC MX-5 (with the smile) has had similar "improvements" done like the 8.

So, you can wait 3 or 4 years...trade up..or..
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Old 01-14-2010, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by ASH8 View Post
Do they really need to??
I think you know why..

Mazda like most Japanese manufacturers gather all this info from Warranty Claims, Dealer reports..collate and then rectifies, some are done during production, more major ones are done at Face-lift time.

The Second Series of the current NC MX-5 (with the smile) has had similar "improvements" done like the 8.

So, you can wait 3 or 4 years...trade up..or..
Yeah, you have a point. I am waiting to see how the Series II's fair before I decide on my next DD.
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Old 01-14-2010, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Charles R. Hill View Post
Every company reserves the right to make product improvements/redesigns and the only contract that matters is the one the individual has with Mazda regarding their own purchase and warranty terms. As such, Mazda owes no S1 owner any "updates" or explanations regarding what is/was done with the S2. I agree, that it would be nice for Mazda to discuss the matter but it may be covered in the "technical" section of the S2 factory service manual. You might be surprised by just how much Mazda discussed the changes made with the Renesis in the FSM for the 2004 model.
Would it be a novel idea for Mazda to release information on things they have found in their research of the S1 that COULD be problematic points for owners? There by giving the owner the opportunity to address these potential problems on their own. Such as increasing oil pressures, premixing or whatever the Mazda engineers may have found that may be helpful or beneficial to the S1 owners.

Has a car company ever worked with their car enthusiast owners in a more direct way? I would think this would be such a huge selling point for that vehicle if a car manufacture was open with its info just a goofy thought.
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Old 01-14-2010, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by plain ole ****** View Post
Would it be a novel idea for Mazda to release information on things they have found in their research of the S1 that COULD be problematic points for owners? There by giving the owner the opportunity to address these potential problems on their own. Such as increasing oil pressures, premixing or whatever the Mazda engineers may have found that may be helpful or beneficial to the S1 owners.

Has a car company ever worked with their car enthusiast owners in a more direct way? I would think this would be such a huge selling point for that vehicle if a car manufacture was open with its info just a goofy thought.
Yes, Mazda Dealers could be a lot more "switched on" with the updates and giving S1 owners consistent advice to say pre-mix.
Instead you have many dealers who don't give a rats about the RX-8, and those which know NOTHING!..until they phone MNAO.

AFAIAC MNAO needs a bloody B*MB put under them, from what I hear from US Parts Dealers their information streams are non existent and hopeless, anything a Parts Dealer suggests/wants falls on deaf ears...the organization sounds like a huge ivory Tower or BS Castle.

I think Subaru are pretty good with STI Customers???
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Old 01-14-2010, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by plain ole ****** View Post
Would it be a novel idea for Mazda to release information on things they have found in their research of the S1 that COULD be problematic points for owners? There by giving the owner the opportunity to address these potential problems on their own. Such as increasing oil pressures, premixing or whatever the Mazda engineers may have found that may be helpful or beneficial to the S1 owners.

Has a car company ever worked with their car enthusiast owners in a more direct way? I would think this would be such a huge selling point for that vehicle if a car manufacture was open with its info just a goofy thought.
The problem is about 90% of the car buying market isn't capable or even interested in making improvements to their vehicle. It's hard enough to get people to change their oil, rotate their tires and check their brakes on a regular basis. So, as a manufacturer you would be releasing information to a public that doesn't care or doesn't have the means to do anything about it.

Second, there's the liability aspect. If Mazda tells their owners to increase their oil pressure but doesn't provide the means to do so it's possible they could end up in a lawsuit when someone blows their motor or damages their car. Even if Mazda claims no liability that doesn't stop someone from filing a suit. Why do you think Mazda doesn't suggest synthetic oil? Because it's easier to say no than it is yes.

Finally, Mazda's support of the S1 only extends through the warranty period. Any research would only be conducted as a means of improving the next model.

Changes, recalls or updates are issued to take care of existing customers within the warranty period.

If any manufactuers released information on "Here's how to make your car better!" the first question people would ask is "why didn't it come like that?" People want to buy a car and forget about it. Whether it's true or not, any car that comes with a list of improvements will not be bought.

We think about this car from the standpoint that we're willing to do what is necessary to make it better. However the very vast majority of car buyers don't even like driving let alone having to fix their car.
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Old 01-14-2010, 09:32 PM
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Flashwing, Iím talking car enthusiastís not general point A to point B people. What happens when people that are truly looking for new sports car at say the Z, infi G or whatever and hear Mazda not only does the typical bs everyone else does but, they literally help with car after and down road after the purchase. With internet this type of info/advertising would spread like wild fire. This would cost Mazda essentially ZERO they are already doing the research and are only sharing THE findings. As to the litigation they are just that FINDINGS WE THINK WE DONíT KNOW the members at RX8club.com are testing this new info XYZ go to this web site see what the people have experienced when they implemented XYZ. Disclaimer on all info released ďthese changes may harm, blow up or destroy your car and you blah blah blahĒ. This info is just for enthusiast period what we do with it is up to us we take the responsibility. Get that one people taking responsibly for their own actions (not directed at you flash just an offhand comment). This info has nothing to do with making the car better just seeing what effect these changes have on the engine.
To all the A to B people the engine you have is the best it will ever be because you have the magical engines just ignore those goofball enthusiasts they like to destroy their cars. and remember keep using 5-20 dino or else
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Old 01-14-2010, 10:45 PM
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Yeah the problem though is that most people who buy sports cars are not enthusiasts. I pretty much talk to every 8 owner within shouting distance when I see one and to be honest most could care less about modifying or driving their 8 hard.
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Old 01-15-2010, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by plain ole ****** View Post
Flashwing, Iím talking car enthusiastís not general point A to point B people. What happens when people that are truly looking for new sports car at say the Z, infi G or whatever and hear Mazda not only does the typical bs everyone else does but, they literally help with car after and down road after the purchase. With internet this type of info/advertising would spread like wild fire. This would cost Mazda essentially ZERO they are already doing the research and are only sharing THE findings. As to the litigation they are just that FINDINGS WE THINK WE DONíT KNOW the members at RX8club.com are testing this new info XYZ go to this web site see what the people have experienced when they implemented XYZ. Disclaimer on all info released ďthese changes may harm, blow up or destroy your car and you blah blah blahĒ. This info is just for enthusiast period what we do with it is up to us we take the responsibility. Get that one people taking responsibly for their own actions (not directed at you flash just an offhand comment). This info has nothing to do with making the car better just seeing what effect these changes have on the engine.
To all the A to B people the engine you have is the best it will ever be because you have the magical engines just ignore those goofball enthusiasts they like to destroy their cars. and remember keep using 5-20 dino or else
....
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Old 01-15-2010, 01:56 PM
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I had my first oil and filter change at 6k on my new 09 RX8-GT at the Dealers today.
They used the N3R1-14-302 filter and 5Q of 5W20. I double checked it.
Just reporting in.
No GoFasters but I do drive it hard.
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