ONLY USE GENUINE Mazda OIL FILTERS in Series II (R3)
 

Series II RX-8 owners...

I have noticed many aftermarket brands of Oil Filters are still recommending the same OIL Filter that is used on the Series 1 RX-8's...TOTALLY INCORRECT.

You may not be aware the 2009-2012 S2 RX-8 has a higher oil pressure circuit and a 50% + higher Oil Filter by pass rated valve-spring plate.

So when the Oil Filter's paper cone is old or becomes blocked the engines Oil Pressure will lift the filter cone by about 4 mm and allow engine oil to still flow BUT your engine oil will no longer be filtered.

If you use a non genuine S2 Oil Filter or and S1 Oil Filter that has a LOWER By Pass PSI rating it could within a very short period of Oil Filter use have issues of filter not filtering your oil because oil is being by passed too soon.

So until Mobil and Fram and other makes can guarantee their By Pass Rating to you in PSI, I WOULD NOT USE THEM...EVER..

S2 Oil Filter By Pass rating is 20.3—26.1 PSI
S1 Oil Filter By Pass rating is 11.4—17.1 PSI

Mazda GENUINE Oil Filter is Part Number N3R1-14-302

SIZE: Base diameter is 70mm, length 85mm, Zero room on an Original Location install for Any Larger Filter.

https://www.rx8club.com/attachment.p...8&d=1228716331


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...61e062a645.jpg

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...22d0024eae.jpg

I noticed today that K&N are specifying a different filter number - S1 HP-1008 and S2 HP-1010... BUT the PSI Relief Valve is 11-17 for BOTH. Oh well...

I'm thinking of doing the Mazmart mod for the oil pressure on my S1, and a larger sump etc - but then what filter do I use POST the pressure valve changes? Can you fit a S2 oil filter to the S1? Can you still fit it if there's a sandwhich plate for an oil pressure gauge in there as well? I'm thinking that'd total 125mmm give or take a few mm and I seriously doubt that there's room in the S1 installation for that...

2004 - 2008 Model Year RX8's are Series 1. Series 2 begin with the 2009 Model Year.

I've been using the K&N HP-1010 for the past 4-5k miles or so. Do you think it's too late to switch back and what kind of effects could it have done?

No it is not or never too late to switch back, you should have read the advise on this forum before you went and got the K&N....Naughty!

Just go back to OEM ASAP, the worst you may have done is not filter your Oil...you only have yourself to blame...:nono:

Seriously, your car should be OK, just change back to N3R1-14-302 it is probably even cheaper than K&N.

I've just sent the following to K&N tech support - it will be interesting to see what answer, if any, they supply.

Dear Sir Madam,

I note with interest that you specify for the RX-8 - Series 1 (2003-2008) HP-1008 and for Series 2 (2009+) HP-1010... and I further note that the PSI Relief Valve for BOTH is 11-17 PSI on these filters.

However, the OEM filters specified by Mazda have the following specifications:

Series 1 Oil Filter By Pass rating is 11.4—17.1 PSI
Series 2 Oil Filter By Pass rating is 20.3—26.1 PSI

Given these figures, can you in all confidence recommend the HP-1010 for the Series 2 RX-8?

For further interest and discussion see this thread on RX8club.com:

LINK

regards

Link is down..?

Yes, I have also done emailing to these suppliers with some response, but, no concrete remedy......like.. 'thankyou for your email, we have passed it on to the appropriate webmasters', etc, etc..

Have made MNAO aware of it also, so perhaps they may "heavy" these manufacturers/sellers.

IN passing, from memory there is no other Mazda filter that has has such a high BP rating as S2 Oil Filter.

I know S1 filters are also used in some bangers and the V6 filter is 11-17 PSI

the link in the email just points here to this thread - sorry it didn't survive the cut and paste from the email to the thread

Anyone know the oil filter bypass rating for Royal Purple #10-2867?

I got a little curious about this and called K&N about it. According to the Tech guys I spoke to, the bypass valve in any oil filter is designed to open when the filter media gets too clogged to efficiently move oil, creating pressure inside the filter. This is to make sure the engine never gets starved of oil due to a clogged filter. The filter media in the K&N filter is much more efficient at moving oil than the Mazda filters, negating the need for the higher pressure valve found in the OEM filters since pressure won't build up as easily inside the filter. Because the filter media moves more oil, when it gets clogged it is still moving more oil than the OEM filter does when the OEM one is clogged. This necessitates a lower valve pressure because the engine will need that oil if the filter clogs.

Bottom line: Since the valve only comes into play with a REALLY clogged filter, then just make sure you change your oil. It's just a safety feature designed to keep your engine from being starved of oil if you happen to forget to change your oil. It can be equated to an idiot light on the dashboard. Take care of your shit and you won't need to worry about it!

Really, well yes I explained in my original post why there is a by pass valve/spring...so no new news there..

I would ask yourself a few questions..
1. Why did Mazda increase the By Pass Valve (valve plate/spring) in the exclusive S2 Oil filter if it was not deemed to be necessary.??
This filter is newly made and ONLY ever used on the S2 RX-8.
???
You just took K&N's very loose "theory"??, without your expert having ANY idea behind the history and why Mazda changed the filter in size or BPV.

I don't care what oil filter brand, they ALL catch Engine Oil Gunk and Metal and they will ALL block in time, that was just SPIN given to you.

OK...some answers..
1. The S2 oil filter for the first time ever in a rotary has moved from the rear of the engine to the front, now about 3 inches from the Oil Pump instead of 25.
We know the S2 pumps higher OP and this is another reason why there is a higher By Pass rate.

As I said in the first post, if you use a(any) lower BP rated filter, and say after 2500 miles it starts to fill with debris, that along with the higher Oil Pressure trying to filter the Oil could lift the inner filter body and go into by pass mode...because the valve/spring is too weak to prevent it going into by pass..

sorry, but that is just BS, HOW are they more efficient??, they ALL work on the exact same principal, OIL has to pass through a paper constructed membrane filter to BE filtered.

Mazda engineers (and their Oil Filter maker Toko Roiki) design things for worst case scenario's, or part replacement at the correct service intervals, not for guys like us who change oil and filters more often.

So, do you really want to risk your engines oil not being filtered??...because you would never really know if your filter went into BP mode.

BTW, I will put the quality of a Genuine S2 filter up against any other brand.

The K&N is a conventional filter like many others. Across the board, OEM filters are generally of very good quality. There is nothing special about the K&N.


K&N It's a white Mobil 1 filter with a nut welded to the back. It's made by Champion Labs using what I call their "performance" design instead of the "Ecore". Save the $2-$3 plus shipping and get the Mobil 1.

Quoted from one of a multitude of oil filter comparos on the net.

I know...but I like having the nut on the back because it makes it easier to change. No struggling with a filter wrench, just a 1" socket and out she comes.

In Europe service intervals are 20K KMS, or 12,000 miles...

If you believe your K&N is so good...good on you!..you know..

I wonder how many Oil Filter 'brands' you have actually cut open and compared over 30 years???...how many??

The By Pass Valve...is not really a valve at all, it is a small round spring or flat spring plate (Mazda now uses) that will allow lift of the filter paper cone when oil can't pass through..so oil will BP.

You believe what you want, the position of any component in an Oil Circuit does make a difference even with positive displacement oil pumps..do some looking around here..

And you failed to answer the question as to WHY did Mazda increased the Spring Plate in their oil filters in S2's...BY PASS Pressure??

And you don't think Mazda and their Oil Filter maker Tokyo Roki "engineers" don't put any thought or effort in what they design??

Yeah, my oil is still "Honey Brown too when put on a white cloth" at 3000 miles and I use DINO..

That quote , is just an out and out lie...:nono:

You lost me mate when I just read that...

You're right. There is nothing wrong with the K&N filter. But it is a standard mass produced Champion filter, internally identical to all the other Champions of that grade. Champion manufactures filters for dozens of aftermarket people. With all due respect, you are kidding yourself if you think there is something special about it's filtering capabilities compared to all the other mass produced filters. If you like it, by all means use it, but it has no special qualities.

Most of K&Ns efforts are spent on marketing. Their products are fine, but they go to great lengths to confer them with extraordinary qualities they don't really have.

Yeah I have used the K&N but only because it was included in the Autozone special but after some research I bought OEM mazda's for much cheaper.

Oh, and I never understood people having a problem removing the filter, I have used one of these on every car to remove the filter and a filter should never be more than hand tight when putting the new one on so..................

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...500_AA280_.jpg

Yep, I use the same Oil Filter "HAT" to remove my Oil Filter...EASY!!

Is this a generic tool, or the Mazda factory filter tool?

A 3/4 ratchet is huge,maybe 1/2" .

Bottom line is ----- You dont even know what you're talking about

S2's stock pressure will go ABOVE 17 psi EASILY, so what does that mean? the poor little K&N valve(spring) will pop and hey, your oil will be bypass 1/2 the time. even under "normal" operation.

So yeah, failed.

There is nothing wrong with K&N's stuff, I use them, but for the S2, Its either Genuine Filter, or might as well keep the old one in place until you can source a new one.

Haha, sorry meant 3/8". Didn't catch that :)


Oh, and......

http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...3d7cdc31f5.jpg

dude ~~~

I just got 6 Mazda oil filter 2 months ago. Its still using the old "Blue" packaging ...

Now I feel that I got rip off ...

Sorry to be a smart ass, but 9K bought Series II Filters (Shown in his pic), they have only been sold in the new Mazda Parts Box and is the Genuine Parts Box.

The Old Blue and White "Mazda" box should not be N3R1-14-302 (S2) Oil F.

You more than likely have the B6Y1 or JEY0

:D::D:Thanks for the support, have not seen you here for a while...welll

well, yeah I am using the OE size Oil filter.

Cuz its OE car, so yeah, OE filter is fine for me.

at around 4 something bux per filter. I can't complain :)

Before you buy a tool(I know they are pretty cheap) to do it, why not try by hand? I am right handed and was able to unscrew it with my left hand laying on my back. It was not loose by any means and took a bit of effort but you probably dont even need the oil filter wrench.

Because, as they have for several years now, they under-size the filter media significantly, which causes a fair amount of pressure in the filter.
Bean counting - a slight increase in spring pressure is cheaper than adding many square inches of filter media surface area.

So, there are two points being overlooked in all the histrionics;

1) If total system pressure had ANYTHING to do with the bypass function, it would HAVE to be rated to more that what we are talking about here because the oiling system easily gets above 20 psi. Even with an S1 engine.

2) How much particulate matter must be filtered by the element before a substantial amount of pressure delta occurs, thus tripping the bypass function?

But I get even more ghetto than this; I have used shit oil filters, OEM oil filters, and expensive "performance" oil filters. I have also used all sorts of various viscosities and formulae of oil, both synthetic and mineral. In fact, my maintenence regimen would embarrass most of you if you were to see just how poorly I take care of my engine. However, my engine still starts with a mere tap of the starter, runs pretty friggin' good considering my compression is probably in the mid to low 7s, and all I do is make sure the air filter stays clean and the oil doesn't get black for too long before I change it. Hell, I don't even know at what mileage intervals I change the oil as I don't keep track!

I have no knocks at start-up, either.

To me it's like working out. Preventative maintenance.

It may all be for nothing, we will know for sure if/when this engines fails because I am committed to not skimping at all on this stuff. I am even using the same gas with no substitutions and I only fill up and ad premix, I don't add gas or premix in partial amounts. the only this I have changed is the 2 stroke used in my SOHN but I feel as long as its is a good 2 stroke it does not matter much. But it could all be a huge waste of time and money, :lol:

But for me it's actually fun and I enjoy it.

I use my leather belt if they are stuck... works wonders.

IS there a good place to get S2 filters? Most parts places only get the S1. I guess I could visit the local auto parts store but they only know what the computer tells them...

Was hoping any of the online vendors could source these.

I call foul! You can get away with this because you can rebuild your engine at the drop of a hat. My no skill level requires me to do things by the book to have a fighting chance keep the engine in good working order as long as possible.

PM mazmart, they have the best deal.

www.mazmart.com

Yes, as I have posted 0813-23-802 filters (28 years ago) were about 6 inches high and twice the diameter (can no longer buy them), but the By Pass Pressure was half that of the S2 Filter.

So it is more than just a slight increase, Mazda also increased the size of the filter over S1.

One can speculate..but..IMO
1. The smaller OEM filter was inadequate at filtering...remember Europe go 12,000 miles between service (same Filter).
2. And or they found the S1 Filter was By Passing, because it could not go the distance.

I say Both..

What makes you think that?

I thought I have seen on this site and read about many of your engine rebuilds for others here. Am I mistaken?

Just because I am pretty good at building these engines doesn't mean I have the money and/or time be careless with my own engine. My engine breaks, nothing gets done at BHR for a few days and I still have to pay for the parts as my RX-8 is my DD just like everyone else's. :) Perhaps you missed my point with my previous comments? :dunno:

I wish Mazda would just freakin' come out and say why they made the changes they did.

Some things just don't come across in post the way I sometimes mean them too this is one of them. I think I understand where your coming from about stating this engine is probably more reliable and we needn't be so anal about everything by stating your maintenance pattern. I was trying to say you have skills and if by some bad luck because of your maintenance occurs you can fix it yourself I cannot. :Peace:

This would be so nice help end a lot of debates on this site. However, Mazda would never do this in fear of litigation from S1 owners still under warranty/not under warranty and maybe having issues related to the changes not made on their vehicles.

1) Happens all the time and I have my own shortcomings in that regard. Over time, we all get to know each other and the inherent tones in the majority of our posts and misunderstandings fall bny the wayside. :)

2) Bingo! I am not saying that others should be as aloof about it as I have, just that my individual experience is a bit different and, speaking of building engines, I have failed to see many of the alleged "problems" that others so heavily discuss.

3) That is understood but BHR's premise isn't to run around helping people break their stuff. We break our OWN stuff but that is what you guys pay us to do..... :lol2:

Every company reserves the right to make product improvements/redesigns and the only contract that matters is the one the individual has with Mazda regarding their own purchase and warranty terms. As such, Mazda owes no S1 owner any "updates" or explanations regarding what is/was done with the S2. I agree, that it would be nice for Mazda to discuss the matter but it may be covered in the "technical" section of the S2 factory service manual. You might be surprised by just how much Mazda discussed the changes made with the Renesis in the FSM for the 2004 model. ;)

Do they really need to??
I think you know why..

Mazda like most Japanese manufacturers gather all this info from Warranty Claims, Dealer reports..collate and then rectifies, some are done during production, more major ones are done at Face-lift time.

The Second Series of the current NC MX-5 (with the smile) has had similar "improvements" done like the 8.

So, you can wait 3 or 4 years...trade up..or.. :)

Yeah, you have a point. I am waiting to see how the Series II's fair before I decide on my next DD.

Would it be a novel idea for Mazda to release information on things they have found in their research of the S1 that COULD be problematic points for owners? There by giving the owner the opportunity to address these potential problems on their own. Such as increasing oil pressures, premixing or whatever the Mazda engineers may have found that may be helpful or beneficial to the S1 owners.

Has a car company ever worked with their car enthusiast owners in a more direct way? I would think this would be such a huge selling point for that vehicle if a car manufacture was open with its info just a goofy thought.

Yes, Mazda Dealers could be a lot more "switched on" with the updates and giving S1 owners consistent advice to say pre-mix.
Instead you have many dealers who don't give a rats about the RX-8, and those which know NOTHING!..until they phone MNAO.

AFAIAC MNAO needs a bloody B*MB put under them, from what I hear from US Parts Dealers their information streams are non existent and hopeless, anything a Parts Dealer suggests/wants falls on deaf ears...the organization sounds like a huge ivory Tower or BS Castle.

I think Subaru are pretty good with STI Customers???

The problem is about 90% of the car buying market isn't capable or even interested in making improvements to their vehicle. It's hard enough to get people to change their oil, rotate their tires and check their brakes on a regular basis. So, as a manufacturer you would be releasing information to a public that doesn't care or doesn't have the means to do anything about it.

Second, there's the liability aspect. If Mazda tells their owners to increase their oil pressure but doesn't provide the means to do so it's possible they could end up in a lawsuit when someone blows their motor or damages their car. Even if Mazda claims no liability that doesn't stop someone from filing a suit. Why do you think Mazda doesn't suggest synthetic oil? Because it's easier to say no than it is yes.

Finally, Mazda's support of the S1 only extends through the warranty period. Any research would only be conducted as a means of improving the next model.

Changes, recalls or updates are issued to take care of existing customers within the warranty period.

If any manufactuers released information on "Here's how to make your car better!" the first question people would ask is "why didn't it come like that?" People want to buy a car and forget about it. Whether it's true or not, any car that comes with a list of improvements will not be bought.

We think about this car from the standpoint that we're willing to do what is necessary to make it better. However the very vast majority of car buyers don't even like driving let alone having to fix their car.

Flashwing, I’m talking car enthusiast’s not general point A to point B people. What happens when people that are truly looking for new sports car at say the Z, infi G or whatever and hear Mazda not only does the typical bs everyone else does but, they literally help with car after and down road after the purchase. With internet this type of info/advertising would spread like wild fire. This would cost Mazda essentially ZERO they are already doing the research and are only sharing THE findings. As to the litigation they are just that FINDINGS WE THINK WE DON’T KNOW the members at RX8club.com are testing this new info XYZ go to this web site see what the people have experienced when they implemented XYZ. Disclaimer on all info released “these changes may harm, blow up or destroy your car and you blah blah blah”. This info is just for enthusiast period what we do with it is up to us we take the responsibility. Get that one people taking responsibly for their own actions (not directed at you flash just an offhand comment). This info has nothing to do with making the car better just seeing what effect these changes have on the engine. ;);)
To all the A to B people the engine you have is the best it will ever be because you have the magical engines just ignore those goofball enthusiasts they like to destroy their cars.:nono: and remember keep using 5-20 dino or else

Yeah the problem though is that most people who buy sports cars are not enthusiasts. I pretty much talk to every 8 owner within shouting distance when I see one and to be honest most could care less about modifying or driving their 8 hard.

.... :icon_tdow

I had my first oil and filter change at 6k on my new 09 RX8-GT at the Dealers today.
They used the N3R1-14-302 filter and 5Q of 5W20. I double checked it.
Just reporting in.
No GoFasters but I do drive it hard.