Need some help finding root cause
11-16-2010, 06:35 AM
#26
I think the next thing i need to check is the torque on the LCA bolt in the rear.
1. Anyone have the torque settings handy?
2. Is there a "smart" way to torque that down without throwing the car out of alignment?
3. Is this even necessary
1. Anyone have the torque settings handy?
2. Is there a "smart" way to torque that down without throwing the car out of alignment?
3. Is this even necessary
11-16-2010, 06:47 AM
#27
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i had a clicking noise for months when the car was turning.
after months checking everything (swaybars, endlings, suspension, shafts etc) i couldn't find where it was coming from.
i replace my tires before a week and when they went to balance the tires all 4 center cups with the mazda loco just felt apart. replace them and voila the noice is gone.
they are plastic with a spring in the middle. when one of the plastic that keeps it together breaks the spring is turning inside freely making a clickin noise.
i suggest to take the wheels off and check them from the inside.
after months checking everything (swaybars, endlings, suspension, shafts etc) i couldn't find where it was coming from.
i replace my tires before a week and when they went to balance the tires all 4 center cups with the mazda loco just felt apart. replace them and voila the noice is gone.
they are plastic with a spring in the middle. when one of the plastic that keeps it together breaks the spring is turning inside freely making a clickin noise.
i suggest to take the wheels off and check them from the inside.
11-16-2010, 07:08 AM
#28
Thanks for the tip, I actually just recently swapped over to winter rims/tires so I am not sure that is the issue, but I will double check just to be sure.
Btw: Like previously mentioned, my torque on the wheels are at 85ft/lb. I know a TSB recommended somewhere in the low 100ft/lb range. Could this possibly be the culprit? Honestly I am a little worried to go that high if i dont need to. The lugs for my winter's are deep conical (acorn) unlike the more rounded OEM wheel nuts. Not sure if that makes a difference.
Btw: Like previously mentioned, my torque on the wheels are at 85ft/lb. I know a TSB recommended somewhere in the low 100ft/lb range. Could this possibly be the culprit? Honestly I am a little worried to go that high if i dont need to. The lugs for my winter's are deep conical (acorn) unlike the more rounded OEM wheel nuts. Not sure if that makes a difference.
11-16-2010, 07:14 AM
#29
Extraordinary Engineering
85 lbs should be fine... Only the Mazda OEM wheels seem to need the super high torque
The conical lugs are fine as long as they mate properly to your wheels
The conical lugs are fine as long as they mate properly to your wheels
11-16-2010, 05:58 PM
#31
Honestly, if they do have a central top locking nut, I'd still be concerned about the top of the shock tower. Do what I did: drive over those slow speed bumps with someone in the trunk, with those side carpeting pieces pulled back. If its coming from inside the shock column area, it will be VERY obvious.
Mine also was worst over slow speed bumps. When you go over a big driveway at slow speed, you have the most vertical compression of the shock, more than driving fast over small bumps. And large vertical compression is exactly what does it.
Mine also was worst over slow speed bumps. When you go over a big driveway at slow speed, you have the most vertical compression of the shock, more than driving fast over small bumps. And large vertical compression is exactly what does it.
11-16-2010, 06:11 PM
#32
Honestly, if they do have a central top locking nut, I'd still be concerned about the top of the shock tower. Do what I did: drive over those slow speed bumps with someone in the trunk, with those side carpeting pieces pulled back. If its coming from inside the shock column area, it will be VERY obvious.
Mine also was worst over slow speed bumps. When you go over a big driveway at slow speed, you have the most vertical compression of the shock, more than driving fast over small bumps. And large vertical compression is exactly what does it.
Mine also was worst over slow speed bumps. When you go over a big driveway at slow speed, you have the most vertical compression of the shock, more than driving fast over small bumps. And large vertical compression is exactly what does it.
edit:
if that is indeed what is making noise, is that something i should fix asap? is it doing any harm to the actual shock?
11-16-2010, 06:32 PM
#34
It may in fact be that top locking nut. I could go to the store now and get a strap wrench so that i can tighten the bolt, but am i hurting anything by just waiting another day?
11-17-2010, 04:09 PM
#35
Ok guys, after trying for the life of me to tighten the top nuts on the rear shocks with a strap and a wrench, I went for a drive. Still making some noise. But then i realized something ....... the front is making it too.......
seriously, is it normal for the topnuts on ALL shocks to become loose??
fwiw, i have all shocks set on "full soft"
edit: here is something i found online::::
Sounds like coilovers + noise is fairly common??
seriously, is it normal for the topnuts on ALL shocks to become loose??
fwiw, i have all shocks set on "full soft"
edit: here is something i found online::::
My stance coil-overs always made noise in the rear on my g35, finally just go so frustrated, I got rid of them. I would have my wife drive around while I sat in the trunk and listen and I could never figure it out.... the next owner complained of the same problem. One main reason they probably made noise was they had steel bushings. But it made the worst noise on very subtle bumps, where there was very little suspension travel, so it baffled me.
Read more at http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-tir...ktrack=kcplink
Read more at http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-tir...ktrack=kcplink
Stance GR+ coilover for the evo sucks. always making noise. I finally got rid of them and got a lowering springs instead.
Read more at http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-tir...ktrack=kcplink
Read more at http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-tir...ktrack=kcplink
pillow *****. they make noise, period. that little sound of something a tiny little loose in the suspension. It's why race car suspensions are noisy and you use bushings instead of solid links on street cars. Even the best solid bushings/pillow ***** will make noise.
Read more at http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-tir...ktrack=kcplink
Read more at http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-tir...ktrack=kcplink
I've had this noise with 3 different sets of coilovers and it is pretty common with coilovers. I've just learnt to deal with it. If you have rubber upper mounts like the stock suspension, it doesn't make noise.
Read more at http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-tir...ktrack=kcplink
Read more at http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-tir...ktrack=kcplink
KW V3s and they've made a variety of noises since installation. It bugs me - a lot - but I've learned to live with it.
Read more at http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-tir...ktrack=kcplink
Read more at http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-tir...ktrack=kcplink
Last edited by paimon.soror; 11-17-2010 at 04:16 PM.
11-17-2010, 07:20 PM
#37
I dont think it is getting worse to be honest, and as far as being quiet at one point, i dont think so. If I actually remember correctly, i think the noises actually started when i set the fronts and rears to full soft. Maybe that is the culprit right there. I believe i did read somewhere that the pillowballs get louder the softer you go. Sound about right ?
11-18-2010, 04:13 PM
#41
I realllly don't think you need a impact wrench here. First figure out the problem, THEN try to solve it. Otherwise you're just shooting in the dark, tightening and adjusting random things.
Dont forget, the forces at work while driving are far different than you can test while sitting under the car. You can push and tap and pull every suspension part, and they may feel rock solid, but could still be loose in some way.
The result is that you have to do some very precise diagnoses WHILE DRIVING.
First - WHERE does it occur? You said front? back? both? Work with someone outside the car, in the rear seat, in the trunk, and very carefully record where you notice it.
AFTER you know where it is, and keep a helper trained on that corner- WHEN is it worse/worst? AT what speed? going over bumps slowly, you said? on the compression of the suspension, or the rebound? Or both/variable?
Disconnect the end links (one side at a time is even better). This won't hurt anything and is VERY useful, just a bit time-consuming. If it goes away its either the link connection or the sway bar bracket. If not, then its probably a shock tower problem, or possibly (thought less likely) a wheel/hub problem.
Remember that what you are describing is only your PERCEPTION and is biased. It is VERY unlikely that a suspension or chassis problem "only happens when going 5-15mpg"! More likely is that below that speed you are not going fast enough to create enough force to create the noise, whatever it is. And above that speed, it is probably masked by road noise, but is still occurring. Similarly, you realize that it is highly unlikely that the sound/problem is "creeping from the rear of the car towards the front" or otherwise changing location. Keep this sort of perspective awareness in mind, and you'll have a much better chance of finding the real problem. Keep it scientific...
Dont forget, the forces at work while driving are far different than you can test while sitting under the car. You can push and tap and pull every suspension part, and they may feel rock solid, but could still be loose in some way.
The result is that you have to do some very precise diagnoses WHILE DRIVING.
First - WHERE does it occur? You said front? back? both? Work with someone outside the car, in the rear seat, in the trunk, and very carefully record where you notice it.
AFTER you know where it is, and keep a helper trained on that corner- WHEN is it worse/worst? AT what speed? going over bumps slowly, you said? on the compression of the suspension, or the rebound? Or both/variable?
Disconnect the end links (one side at a time is even better). This won't hurt anything and is VERY useful, just a bit time-consuming. If it goes away its either the link connection or the sway bar bracket. If not, then its probably a shock tower problem, or possibly (thought less likely) a wheel/hub problem.
Remember that what you are describing is only your PERCEPTION and is biased. It is VERY unlikely that a suspension or chassis problem "only happens when going 5-15mpg"! More likely is that below that speed you are not going fast enough to create enough force to create the noise, whatever it is. And above that speed, it is probably masked by road noise, but is still occurring. Similarly, you realize that it is highly unlikely that the sound/problem is "creeping from the rear of the car towards the front" or otherwise changing location. Keep this sort of perspective awareness in mind, and you'll have a much better chance of finding the real problem. Keep it scientific...
11-18-2010, 05:27 PM
#42
I realllly don't think you need a impact wrench here. First figure out the problem, THEN try to solve it. Otherwise you're just shooting in the dark, tightening and adjusting random things.
Dont forget, the forces at work while driving are far different than you can test while sitting under the car. You can push and tap and pull every suspension part, and they may feel rock solid, but could still be loose in some way.
The result is that you have to do some very precise diagnoses WHILE DRIVING.
First - WHERE does it occur? You said front? back? both? Work with someone outside the car, in the rear seat, in the trunk, and very carefully record where you notice it.
AFTER you know where it is, and keep a helper trained on that corner- WHEN is it worse/worst? AT what speed? going over bumps slowly, you said? on the compression of the suspension, or the rebound? Or both/variable?
Disconnect the end links (one side at a time is even better). This won't hurt anything and is VERY useful, just a bit time-consuming. If it goes away its either the link connection or the sway bar bracket. If not, then its probably a shock tower problem, or possibly (thought less likely) a wheel/hub problem.
Remember that what you are describing is only your PERCEPTION and is biased. It is VERY unlikely that a suspension or chassis problem "only happens when going 5-15mpg"! More likely is that below that speed you are not going fast enough to create enough force to create the noise, whatever it is. And above that speed, it is probably masked by road noise, but is still occurring. Similarly, you realize that it is highly unlikely that the sound/problem is "creeping from the rear of the car towards the front" or otherwise changing location. Keep this sort of perspective awareness in mind, and you'll have a much better chance of finding the real problem. Keep it scientific...
Dont forget, the forces at work while driving are far different than you can test while sitting under the car. You can push and tap and pull every suspension part, and they may feel rock solid, but could still be loose in some way.
The result is that you have to do some very precise diagnoses WHILE DRIVING.
First - WHERE does it occur? You said front? back? both? Work with someone outside the car, in the rear seat, in the trunk, and very carefully record where you notice it.
AFTER you know where it is, and keep a helper trained on that corner- WHEN is it worse/worst? AT what speed? going over bumps slowly, you said? on the compression of the suspension, or the rebound? Or both/variable?
Disconnect the end links (one side at a time is even better). This won't hurt anything and is VERY useful, just a bit time-consuming. If it goes away its either the link connection or the sway bar bracket. If not, then its probably a shock tower problem, or possibly (thought less likely) a wheel/hub problem.
Remember that what you are describing is only your PERCEPTION and is biased. It is VERY unlikely that a suspension or chassis problem "only happens when going 5-15mpg"! More likely is that below that speed you are not going fast enough to create enough force to create the noise, whatever it is. And above that speed, it is probably masked by road noise, but is still occurring. Similarly, you realize that it is highly unlikely that the sound/problem is "creeping from the rear of the car towards the front" or otherwise changing location. Keep this sort of perspective awareness in mind, and you'll have a much better chance of finding the real problem. Keep it scientific...
Today i took out both of my rear suspension. First, stance recommended that i take a impact wrench and tighten up the top nut with a couple taps. In doing that, it gave me time to actually install the new adjustment ***** that stance sent me, up until now i had been riding full soft...or so i thought.
The right hand side (passenger) was fine. put the **** in, was able to tighten it, and click all the way to hard, then all the way to soft, and then up 4 clicks from soft.
The left hand side was a different story....i put the **** in, and it wouldn't stop turning.... well, something is obviously wrong. I looked down into the adjustment hole and realized that the little screw on the inside was all the way down! ..... I had been riding full hard on the left rear, full soft on the right rear!?!?!?!?
Anyway, pulled it out, and put the **** in correctly. Tightened everything back up, and went for a drive. There is still a little bit of noise, but definately a lot less than before. At this point, I think i can actually chalk it up to the fact that it is the pillowballs. It is a very subtle noise, like a soft knock at a wall. Anyway, i am a bit more at ease knowing that A, the lock nut at the top is nice and tight ... and B. my shocks are at the same adjustment setting in the rear.
In any event, I will monitor the noise a bit more over the next few days.
12-04-2010, 11:08 PM
#43
Hey guys, update:
So the noise started coming back again. I did a bit of searching and found this :
http://my.is/forums/f89/fyi-stance-g...s-gone-417928/
The before pics are EXACTLY what my bushings look like, here is a pic of my rear driver side (its too dark for me to get some good pics)
Looks like this guy was able to get a set of replacements from Stance. Hopefully I will be able to do the same. I will keep you guys posted.
So the noise started coming back again. I did a bit of searching and found this :
http://my.is/forums/f89/fyi-stance-g...s-gone-417928/
The before pics are EXACTLY what my bushings look like, here is a pic of my rear driver side (its too dark for me to get some good pics)
Looks like this guy was able to get a set of replacements from Stance. Hopefully I will be able to do the same. I will keep you guys posted.
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