Apex Seal Lubrication
 

Not Really a DIY advice, But, it is something only S2 Owners can do.

As you know Apex and Corner Seal Lubrication is now performed by Mazda's all new Two EMOP (Electronic Metering Oil Pumps) through 3 Injector Nozzles per Rotor.

Something you may not have noticed (or you have) is when you turn your ignition OFF, you hear many Farts, Clicks and Noises, the last Buzz you hear are your two EMOP's releasing Engine Oil through the 6 nozzles to assist in Lubricating your Apex and Corner Seals the next time you start your car...which could be a few moments away or many days, weeks or months.

What I am doing to add just that little bit more Oil to run down internally around my Apex seal path and Rotor Housing face is to turn the Ignition ON (Do Not Start) and then OFF again, you will hear all the chorus of noises and at last the EMOP's going off.

You can if you wish repeat this again...I think twice (total of 3) is enough.
I just like the idea after a hard run/drive, or when extremely Hot or Cold.

Your engines Oil Pump through the OCV (Oil Control Valve) maintains just under 20 PSI Oil Pressure/Oil supply inside the 2 EMOP chambers (that sit on top of your engine)...so I do not believe oil supply would be an issue, could be after more than 3 cycles though.

I notice NO starting issues or any extra smoke after I perform two additional Oil Metering Cycles.

My idea is maybe Quirky and deemed "unnecessary" by some, but I like having the option.:)

It is not something I do at every engine OFF.

Man you got OCD :D

I thought on initial start EMOP did this as well. Because I think I hear those noises at start up. Would this process have any limiting effect on amount of oil in EMOP on the start up procedure?

ASH, you rock bro.

It is also supposed to work on start up...see reference info.

As you know the EMOP's Noise is the the BUZZ or very last noise which goes for about 2 seconds (approx)...I will check that one out...I usually hear the Air Pump start up.

Periodically the "system" does an EMOP clean, but you should not hear the "Buzz" noise as the clean goes through to your Oil Filler neck or pipe, the EMOP Oil Pipe is the very last (bottom) pipe attached to your black plastic Oil Filler neck on your passenger side, it has a 90 degree connector with yellow paint on it, the black pipe is about 10 mm.

Found this in Service Highlight...this actually talks about Cold Temps or CT below 60C...

Today here (now) is it 44 C shade and 52 C in the sun (110 and 125F)!!, and my EMOP's still go off at switch off.

Ignition switch off function
�� Engine startability at cold temperatures is improved by discharging engine oil while the ignition is switched off.
�� If the engine is started with the coolant temperature lower than 20 ��C {68 ��F} and the ignition is switched off with the coolant temperature lower than 60 ��C {140 ��F}, the PCM calculates the necessary oil amount based on the coolant temperature. The PCM controls the metering oil pump driver until the engine rotation is completely
stopped.

I'll give it a go can't hurt :fingersx:here where temps are 7f (-14c).

Series 1 question here.. Ash, is there something similar for the S1? I don't think there's one that happens during engine shutoff but when the key is turned to the start position, apart from the air pump to get the catalytic to warm up faster, supposedly some oil is sprayed to lube the apexes (mentioned by zoom44 in an old thread) and makes starting easier. Here in the northeast of the US, it's darn chilly out and what's worse is I don't drive my car sometimes for a week at a time.

Think it's a good idea for S1 owners to turn the key to the on position several times after shut-off to get some oil in? Or maybe instead performing this routine for some time before the engine is fired up, or a combi of both? Provided any of this is real, lol..

I know on the S1 and OMP stepper motor is cycled from min to max as a self test every 12th ignition cycle.
I believe that's it... but I'll let Ash clarify that.

I can assure you that this is "Real" for S2 (Series II) Owners, and the EMOP's perform as I have said at engine Turn OFF, it does the releasing of Engine Oil ONCE.

How much OIL...I do not know, I still believe it is a Dribble rather than a Jet or Squirt.
The Oil is meant to Run down the inside of the Rotor Housing until it reaches an Apex Seal and Corner Seals...It is meant for Cold Start Ups, so there is a very small this film of Oil present to be distributed at start up around most of the inner surface of the Rotor Housing Face to the Seals.

Doing the Key ON Ignition and OFF again, just allows that little more Oil...that is all.

For S1 owners, Not being an Owner of an S1 and not having the initial Service Highlights I am unsure if the Stepper MOP works in the same way at Turn OFF or Turn ON..I have my doubts, but stand to be corrected if someone can actually Cut and Paste this information from Mazda's Tech manuals.

I was under the impression the S1 RX-8's MOP works in a similar way to all other recent rotaries and works only during Load/RPM occurrences.

Again these MOP's don't "spray" oil they weep oil.

The Internal Eccentric Shaft OIL JETS do Spray Oil around the internal Rotors and its gears are continuous...S2's have the exact same jets and principal which also helps to cool the Rotors.
I don't know if your are confusing this issue with what Zoom44 posted?..I have not seen it.

As far as I was aware all the PCM Flashes and upgrades (S1) were to Increase the Flow Volumes of Engine Oil during normal operation, cycle inputs/load RPM parameters probably changed also with these flashes, but again I am unaware that this occurrence will happen at engine turn OFF for S1 engines.

Yes, Jon, I believe you are correct about the S1 MOP Cycle Test, unsure if it is every 12th IGN Cycle, but I know it is around that mark.

It would be interesting to know if Jeff (or Cobb) with their Access Port could, can, or does have a similar option to an engine OFF, MOP Cycle.
I am aware the AP can increase Volumes of Oil and changes values, but again I don't know if it will perform an engine OFF Lube Cycle..may be something that could be looked into by Cobb...if they have not already done so. :)

Doh I meant that regarding the S1's pre-start lubrication process.. not doubting the S2's ;).. I'm gonna dig around to find zoom's post..

edit: found it! https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-tech-garage-22/pre-lube-starting-procedure-141540/ .. thoughts?

Just a thought..................

Isn't is possible that the extra oil will, burned cold, contribute to carbon build up at the exhaust port? I only say this because my specialty is 2 strokes, and I know carbon build up from incomplete oil cumbustion rapidly constricts exhaust ports. Fortunately in a smoker, it's easily remedied.

So what is the trade off of the extra lubrication vs. the potential for more rapid stricture at the port?

you do realize you're only dumping oil into the one rotor face that's open to these points when the engine is stopped?

classic RX8Club advice .....

floor the gas, crank the engine without fuel for 1 revolution, problem solved, but that being said.. too much effort.

Do the S1's do this too?

shhhh.. i see the follow up "i'm going through so much oil" thread coming soon :evil_laug

That all depends on the low viscosity of what ever oil your using. An oil with too low a viscosity can shear and loose film strength at high temperatures. An oil with too high a viscosity may not pump to the proper parts at low temperatures and the film may tear at high rpm.

Multi viscosity oils work like this: Polymers are added to a light base(5W, 10W, 20W), which prevent the oil from thinning as much as it warms up. At cold temperatures the polymers are coiled up and allow the oil to flow as their low numbers indicate. As the oil warms up the polymers begin to unwind into long chains that prevent the oil from thinning as much as it normally would. The result is that at 100 degrees C the oil has thinned only as much as the higher viscosity number indicates. Another way of looking at multi-vis oils is to think of a 20W-50 as a 20 weight oil that will not thin more than a 50 weight would when hot.

But we wont talk about that in this thread

In the S1 the oil pump is powered from the crank so there is no way to get it going without the engine turning over.

Sorry for the late reply..

Not necessarily, The 'Apex' of a Rotor Could stop between the 3 EMOP oil nozzle Layout at engine turn off, therefore OIL could be distributed between TWO Rotor Faces.

This "Dumping" of oil as you put it is Controlled by the PCM at every engine Turn OFF by the Factory Settings, all I am doing by turning ignition key on and off again,and is dumping slightly more than what the factory sets.

classic RX8Club response....

Nup...I am a little concerned car may not be using enough OIL...
Car now done 18K Miles and still the same quantity of Oil Used on average.

As I have said before as have Mazda, the new EMOP set up actually uses less oil than Series 1 RX-8's, because of how the new system works, but, as I said I am concerned it is not enough oil used..

Hmm, well if what Delmeister said is true (I have no idea) then there would be no way for S1's to shoot a little oil in and that MM and his Cobb AP could not do this...

Or just use some premix... Peace of mind and it makes me feel special ;)

Premixing doesnt solve the problem though... it helps, a little... but its not direct oil on the center apex seal...No matter what we do all S1's will fail because of the design, just accept it...


Unless we premix and increasing our OMP to shoot more oil via Cobb AP...
Having a hand built engine w/ hand clearanced seals with the above = Long engine life (NA) ....



Edit: Came back through this thread and changed my mind about some of this while adding some info ;)

I sold my S1 years ago before this problem ever came to light. Dodged a bullet.
Now I'm one of the handful of people with an S2, and no one yet knows how this revision will pan out.

But I always loved 2stroke motorcycles and the smell of premix, so....

^^^ Lol it doesn't change how much I love my rotary... but we will see how the S2 does...

Inside EMOP..

https://www.rx8club.com/series-ii-technical-trouble-shooting-160/inside-emop-2-a-207735/