09Factor

just like the title says.
I need a little convincing why I should change my shocks out. i'm noticing a little more bounce now since the 8 has 30k and the S-Techs have 20k of that.
And from what I have read, ie the stock shocks didn't provide enough dampening to begin with, the stiffer spings help wear the shocks more (duh).

I'm torn on saving more money for aD2/Tein/Tanabe system, or should I change them out with the Tokico's and leave them be?
I don't auto-x but often drive mountain twisties.

The 8 is a daily driver and 3 of us carpool together. If the second passenger is in the back I'm more prone to rub the cat on speed bumps and the llike.

I guessing that changing to the Tokicos would prevent the car from riding lower in the rear.

Thoughts?
thnx in advance

Mazda-Rati

I think you answered your own question. With the spring rate the S-tech have, you def. got more mileage out of your stock shocks then i would have guessed. I have the H&R's and have started to notice a more bouncy ride too. I went to my mazda dealer (Malloy Mazda) and asked them to price match Rosenthal for a set of mazdaspeed shocks ($410). sure enough, they did so i'm going to put them on this weekend. I don't know how how set you are about buying the adjustables, but I'll let you know the results.

09Factor

Hey thanks. I'm intrested how the MS shocks work for you.

Red Devil

Rati, you feel the MS shocks will match your H&R springs? Or are you pairing them with MS springs?

Mazda-Rati

I'm keeping on the H&R's with the MS shocks. I think this combo will work just fine.

Pololo_RX8

Disagree with this. Have you compared the spring rates of H&R vs Mazdaspeed?

This is why when people do this just for "looks" the whole principal behind "spring rate + shock dumping" is usually overlooked.

I have seen so many posts.. "my ride is crap.. the shocks don't work.. the springs are too stiff" but they forget the basic suspension geometry. They end up chaging spring and/or shocks again thinking "it'll work OK"...

Just get the MS setup... You'll be happy you did.. Sell the H&R springs...

Carlos

BigOLundh

iTrader: (1)

You should be fine. The last time i checked the Spring Rate on the MS Springs were stiffer than the H&R's. The MS Shock should be more than strong enough to handle the H&Rs.

-hS

r0tor

iTrader: (1)

shocks don't effect ride height - springs do

Mazda-Rati

Spring Rates of the three

Mazdaspeed Spring
F 280 lb/in
R 190.4 lb/in

H&R
F 194~203 lb/in (calculated 25%~30% Stiffer than Stock)
R 141~146 lb/in (calculated 25%~30% Stiffer than Stock)

Tein S Tech
F 207 lb/in
R 145 lb/in

RX8SpdDmn

First of all. YES, get shocks. You shouldn't have done springs without shocks in the first place if you had any concern for the performance. The suggestion to do the MS Shocks and springs is good, and you could sell your H&Rs. One benefit is that you could do some of the work yourself if you have the dealer, or some shop, put the springs on the struts. I haven't messed with the suspension in my car, so someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it's a strut, or coil-over set up, right? So the whole spring/shock assembly goes in as one piece once the spring has been compressed to be put on the strut.

The other option, which I would probably go with, would be to get adjustable shocks. You'll be able to match them better to whatever you've got and fine tune the handling of your car. Shocks do more to improve your handling than springs, in the first place. Adjusting the front-to-rear bias will alter your handling significantly. I have Koni yellows (single-adjustable) in my Z3 and they've been great. That's with stock springs.

RX-Hawk

Can't comment on other aftermarket shocks.....but I recommend the MS setup!


I think by far upgrading the suspension is the best bang for the buck.

09Factor

True I understand shocks don't effect ride hight.

The Q should had said this.

"When the second persons fat *** gets in the back, would the shocks help prevent a lower ride in the rear?"

I'm thinking it would beacuse of the increased damping force, but don't know for sure.
Thats why I started this thread.


Also I did understand when I put the Teins in, the ride would not be as good it could be.

Mazda-Rati

Yes. Only if you have some stiffer springs to go with it. If you have soft springs,
the car might sag a bit when you get it.

The struts and springs work hand in hand so matching them is key.

Pololo_RX8

I don't get it.. and I don't know why people keep doing this.

You MUST match a spring with a shock.

With the setup you want, the shock will be underdamped and your car will ride horribly with the spring rate of H&R. Shocks won't help alone and yes, anybody sitting in the back will cause your tires to rub the fender as you currently have.

My 2 cents,
Carlos

GeorgeH

iTrader: (2)

I'm installing the D-specs this weekend (on stock springs) and hopefully will be able to post impressions soon.

My only concern with the MS dampers on H&R springs is the report that the rear MS dampers have lower compression valving than OEM. If true (and this is sometimes done to counter the effect higher spring rates have on ride quality) then you may find the MS dampers, when matched with H&R (or OEM) springs will bottom out too easily in the rear.

But I don't know how reliable the information on the MS damping rates is, so this is just speculation.

r0tor

iTrader: (1)

a damper only exerts a force when there is relative motion between the 2 ends - the spring controls the static weight and the damper will control the rate at which the springs compresses/decompresses while driving.

You currently have a spring that exerts 30% more force per inch of travel then stock. The shock is not matched for that extra 30% of force so the system is underdamped and you bounce around. If you go with the MS shocks, they are designed to control a spring force of almost 100% stiffer then stock - so with your springs the system will be overdamped and will feel still and hop over bumps.

I AM THE RED WORM

ride quality

Olorin2

iTrader: (6)

I've always followed the rule that you should change your struts/shocks when you change your springs. However, I just purchased some Tein H-techs, which have the slightest increase in spring rate from stock, but do lower the car a little. After reading success stories on the board with H-tech-only installs, I figured I might be okay with this setup without having to buy a complete coilover system.

Ideally, I should change the struts, or just go with the MS suspension. Eventually I'll do it, but does anyone think it's a complete mistake to not change the struts with the Tein H-techs?

coldnoodle

Why not sell the S-Tech on ebay or to someone else.

And get the Tein Basic, comes with springs and shocks. Besides, the system is ride height adjustable. That way, you will get soft spring for the street use and shocks that are made for lowered vehicles. The MSRP on the Tein Basic is about $750, I'm sure you can find cheaper somewhere else.

09Factor

Thanks. So in my case I would be better off to purchase an adjustable shock, which I was leaning towards anyway. Since the MS shocks are non-adjustable and matched to the MS springs spring rate, if these are installed (shocks) I just went from one extreme to another.

I would sell the S-techs and purchase a EDFC or TAS compatible system. I'm lazy and like to push buttons.


Thanks for all of the input everyone. I know a little more now.

coldnoodle

The Tein Basic system is not compatible with the EDFC system. If you want that kind of set up, try these:

1. Tein Flex [EDFC] - Tein's "best" performance system
2. Tein Super Street [EDFC] - For ppl who is looking for premium system but a softer ride [not yet available, but coming soon]
3. Tanabe Seven system

09Factor

Um yea I already knew this, but thanks anyway.

GeorgeH

iTrader: (2)

While the above is correct on principle, I seriously doubt the MS shocks will make the H&R, or even stock, springs feel overdamped. If you read this post (in particular, read the very last post in the thread):

https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...highlight=dyno

You'll see that the owner actually like the dampers for street use on stock springs (although they come up a bit short for autocross). IMO the stock shocks are too lightly damped, even for stock springs. I think the MS dampers would be fine on H&R springs, and quite a bit cheaper than Konis or Tokicos.

Mazda-Rati

OK. Just got done installing the MS shocks with my H&Rs. After taking it for a drive I can't say if the car handles much different. If anything, the back end does feel like it wants to kick out a little easier when taking a turn really hard.

The shocks definatly cleared up the bounciness though and that's exaclty what I was looking for!! I am very happy with this set up

r0tor

iTrader: (1)

there is no correct formula for feel... i happen to think the stock dampening is about perfect, others like overdampened suspensions