suspension setup questions
 

So after I did a track day earlier this week, I've realized I need to do a few things to the suspension in order to get it to my liking for next year.

First off, trying to decide on a good spring and shock combination. I'm split between RB Springs with Tokico D-Specs, or Eibach's with Koni Yellows. I would like the slight extra drop of the Eibach's, especially in front, but the price and reviews of the RB springs and Tokico's seem good also.

I'm going with the Enkei RPF1's for the great price and low weight, but can't decide on 17s or 18s. The 17s would be great for the weight savings and reduced price of the wheels and tires, but I'm going to be using these on and off the track. Does anyone have pictures of an RX8 on 17s, I just don't want it to look like a monster truck.

Now brake pads... I'm going to stick with the stock rotors for now since they have a lot of life left in them still. I can't decide if I want to go with the Hawk HPS or Hawk HP+. The big questions I have is, do you swap to track pads before each race or drive around all of the time with the same pads on the street also? The HPS's look good for the low noise and dust and better than OEM performance, but the HP+ seems like a better option for the track while they will be noisey and dusty on the street.

Just looking for some input at the moment on what you would recommend.

I did H-Tech and Tokico D-Spec. Love them. Still have enough suspension travel and the car is great on the track "3" and around town "7". You want shocks you can adjust WHILE THEY ARE STILL ON THE CAR. I can do all 4 in 4 minutes.

I went with HPS instead of Plus because of the cold performance. It is a lot colder where you are. I am nowhere near the limits of the brakes. I might be in a few more trips, then might change. Lot depends on the track. I do Roebling. I only hit the brakes 3 times a lap or so.

Swoope did the Eibach's He ended up with spacers in the rear. I think he has 17's as well. I suggest a PM, he has been off lately.

If I had the change, I would do a 17 set of very track like tires and use the 18s for the street. I cannot afford the extra set at this time. shorter tire gives more grunt out of the corner.

The tokico makes a complete spring and strut package. I used it before going with coilovers and I thought they worked great. The drop is around 1"-1.2" which is perfect for the track and street.

If you are going to switch pads for the track, the hp+ are a better choice, but if you are new to tracking the car you should be just fine with the hps.

If you decide to switch out pads for the track, be sure to clean and sand the rotors (120 grit sand paper) otherwise you can get uneven pad deposits which will cause a vibration.

If you plan to do track days more then once or twice a year, I suggest you go with the 17's and make them track only wheels/tires. Using street tires on the track will get expensive very fast. You are better off with a r-comp tire on the track and a regular street tire for the street. It will save you money in the long run. Downside: R-comp tires mask poor driving. It is better to learn on street tires and switch the r-comps after you have some time under your belt.

Easier than sanding rotors, use Acetone, cleans the pad deposits right off, really easy. just use a towel to rub with.

Decide if you want an even drop or the same gap over the wheels. I did the h-tech to get the gap the same and provide a more aggressive stance.

I will try the acetone.

Same gap looks nice but it puts more weight toward the front and throws off the balance of the car.

Bottom line, either one will work well. I would just suggest not following one of us for one side, and the other for the other.

One the acetone, it worked great. Just understand, no smoking.....

And, the lower front seemed to improve MPG, that was the weird part, almost 2 MPG.

Save your money and get more seat time

17" rpf1 wheels and r-comp tires = $2000+
Suspension upgrades = $1000 and up (sky is the limit)
upgraded brakes = $300 and up (sky is the limit)

More seat time = Priceless.

agree with more seat time but it aint free, lol.

Speaking of seat time, you gonna take any more of those pictures in you sig any time soon?

^me?

Ok, this looks like the right thread to jack!:lol:

My 8 is a track toy. I drive 300 miles to every track four times a year, and I want to fix my saggy rear GT springs shock crap.

I'm really sold on Bilstein HD's for the shocks, but WHAT SPRINGS DON'T LOWER BESIDES RACING BEAT?

When you search springs everything is : LOWERING SPRINGS so a search for a real performance spring came up with like 954 threads.

See why this forum gets some dumb questions? Too much data overload!

Ok, flame suit on, I like Racing Beat, but I don't want any progressive spring or lowers more than half inch. Any ideas?:scatter:

Your 8 is a track toy but you dont want to lower it? I am a little confused why. Lowering the vehicle around an inch will improve the handleing over just stiffer springs and struts.

With that said, every performance spring will lower the car, even the racing beat springs lower the car about .5"-.8" IIRC. If you absolutely dont want to lower the car, you will probably have to go with a coilover and will need at least $1000 for a decent set.

And what is wrong with progressive rate springs? They provide all the performance of a higher rate spring but dont make the ride too uncomfortable.

If you decide to go with racing beat springs, check out this for sale thread, tokico specs also for sale. Both are good deals. I have used the d-specs before going with coilovers and I really liked them.

https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-parts-sale-wanted-44/racing-beat-springs-set-tokico-d-spec-shocks-205832/

Now see, that's the fire I wanted to light!;)

I'm about sold on that RB and Tokico combo in these photos.

In fact that'll RAISE me about 1 inch!

You see why I'm a track guy, but still confused. My car is stock, but obviously with blown rear shocks, so I think I could actually fix it with just shocks, but I'll put RB's on the rear to make sure while it's off. My front measurement is 13 and 1/2 inches which many people has said they have. The rears are 13 which are essentially lowered already as stock (on the bump stops).

So tell me, are those Tokicos anything like our stock shocks? I thought they were Tokicos. :dunno:

Here's my car on 17's

http://www.flickr.com/photos/nycdriftking/4758757675/http://www.flickr.com/photos/nycdriftking/4758757675/ by http://www.flickr.com/people/nycdriftking/, on Flickr

NYC Drift King,
Yeah, your 8 has a good stance, and very tasteful mods!

I assume you have a garage to lock it up, because it has to draw attention.

Not true partner. The RX8 geomety actually doesnt benefit from lowering it. The front actually benefits from RAISING it.

The most economical thing you can do with a stock car is to check and put a track alignment on the car. New drivers who add mods to thier car MASK their driving deficiencies which is why a those who don't modify their car learn faster than guys that buy all the bullcrap for it. I've seen this happen dozens of times. Just because the car can go faster doesn't mean the driver has learned to go faster. Put a turbo on the car and reduce your lap times by 5 seconds---are you faster now? No.

The point I make is that there is nothing smarter than seat time. I can hoof a stock car faster than most drivers who own a modified car. The trick is to get the tires contact patch on the ground. This saves your tire wear and reduces some of the undesirable effects of pushing the stock suspension.

A more aggressive alignment with a generous amount of camber in the front (depending on the type of track your running) will allow you to understand what your car is doing better than a heavily modded car.

Too often that not THE MAJORITY of drivers have no clue how to play with shocks. Shocks are not easy to use properly let alone understand what your car is really doing.

Bars are a smart choice (after lots and lots of seat time) as well as an increase in spring rate. Increased spring rate can really influence your street cars ride but front spring increase really helps the nose dive when getting into your ABS (which all RX8 drivers need to learn how to do). Stock spring rates will unload the rear tire contact patch and aggressive trail braking from high speeds will allow the rear end to get light and come around on you.

Again, the best thing to do is get more seat time in a stock car to understand what the car wants to do (any car) before modifications. You then went to add one mod at a time to understand what the car wants to tell you. Done properly you'll want to get lots and lots and lots of seat time and listen to these new mods.

Something I like to tell sporadic drivers who beleive they know it all is this: Do you have 5 years experience or 1 year experience 5 times.

Buy a tire pressure gauge, a pyrometer (or share one with a buddy) and buy your wife or girlfriend a purse and flowers because proper seat time for a beginner-expert DE driver requires lots of seat time. Lots of seat time and different tracks to be direct with you guys. Please don't base your skill set by driving Road America 52 times. If this is your only option find a very talented instructor (professional preferred) and re-learn your home track in your car. This will be an eye-opening experience. This is kinda like golfing with Tiger Woods or throwing the football with Payton Manning.

The bottom line is there is more in a stock car (any car) then people understand. Save your money and get seat time.

Respectfully,

Eric

I hate to jump into this thread outa the blue but i have a few questions about suspension.

I was wondering mainly Lowering springs vs. Coilovers. I know that the overall better choice is coilovers but i have some concerns with getting them. I have heard its a pain to get them all to the correct heights and weights, without scales. And I dont want to pay someone to do work for me, I want to learn the hard way by just doing the work.

I also was wondering how hard is it on the stock struts to put lowering springs on, how long will they last?

My main goal is to get a nice Mildly aggressive stance and stiffen up the ride a little bit, I want to get the look of the front being higher then the back gone. I was also thinking about stiffer sway bars but im unsure as of yet. I want to start autoX when i get back but that will be about 5 months. I am new to the RX8 (3 Months) and new to any car modifications besides basic maintenence. I have read up alot about this car and am starting to learn alot about it. I am currently in IRAQ but when i get back I plan on doing some modifications to the car with the extra money. I want to first fix my APV issue then focus on the suspension and brakes.

Any and all suggestions will be great. And any suggestion about the car will be deeply looked into. Thanks

O yeah, its a
2005 M/T
87k Miles Original enginge
GTX 5-30

Setting up coilovers not only requires scales but a lot of knowledge and seat time as well. You can't expect to install them be done with it since rebound\damping etc all need to be addressed after you know how the car behaves on a determined track etc.
Coilovers aren't cheap either, the good ones i mean :D

That is kinda why i was just wanting to go with springs, and maybe a struts... I just want to get a decent even setup, but i need to get APV working properly as it started sticking about a week before i left, right after mazda did a carbon cleaning. The guy that is looking over it right now hasnt seen it throw a code though. I do want it lowered, not drastically, i was thinking 1.5" front and maybe 1" rear? any suggestions?

\\


Let's fix your first problem first. Why do you think your APV is not working?

\

Hats off to you and your look into the future. This is a great perspective to have. If your new to AutoX (or road course driving) the first thing I'd do with a stock car is drive it in stock condition. Learn what a car wants to tell you. Do it again and again and again. Mods are fun and easy and can lead you into a trap quickly. The type A personality with a budget is usually the guy that spends the most money and crashes the most. The Mechanical Engineer with a budget is usually the fastest to learn to drive quickly (no kidding). Teachers are good too because they are "students" and understand learning. Learning and practicing is the key to becoming a better driver. I digress.

I'll steer away from AutoX suggestions because I know nothing. Perhaps our friend Team could chime in on this one. I would trust his guidance for car mods (or lack thereof).

The mazdaspeed swaybars (or RB) are a nice compliment to a stock car. Be prepared to find a local race shop (ask several different racers from your local track for their advice) and have your car track aligned. DO NOT fall prey to the local Goodyear tire store alignment if you want a track alignment. Most all of them have no idea of what this is about. Find an experienced shop that RACERS ARE USING AND RECOMMENDING. Ask to watch them and take notes. Show up with your car in drive trim (the tires you would normally run and the amount of fuel you normally run with (even though the location of our fuel tank has very little change in cross weight AT ALL)).

given the basic premise and overall response you really can't go wrong with the full MazdaSpeed shocks/springs/bars package since there's nothing to turn or adjust other than alignment, tire pressure, and most importantly driver skill level i.e. KISS.

well said.....very good post:score:

Team, Eric,

Anyone else. The few posts here are among the most useful and helpful I have seen on this topic. Wish the was out there a year ago. Only problem is, without the year of playing around, and doing it slow, and making mistakes, I am not sure I would recognize it as incredibly useful. Those just getting started, take it on faith.

Also, the note about a shop that understands track alignments, take it from the guy who did one shop 5 times in a week... Find a good shop, or, write down exactly what ALL of the numbers are supposed to be and MADE SURE THEY GIVE IT TO THE TECH!