Springs vs Coilovers
 

Wondering what people's thoughts are on going with lowering springs on stock shocks or upgrading to coilovers? Do the stock shocks hold up well to springs or not? Also, would a shop charge less to put on coilovers vs springs?

http://www.carbibles.com/suspension_bible.html

With good shocks and springs that are well matched - the only advantage of coilovers is ride height adjustability.

I went from Springs and Shocks to Coilovers to RAISE my car up...... :D

http://www.carbibles.com/images/coilspring1.gif <- Our Front Suspension basically.

See we have coilovers from the factory(technically)... just not adjustable ones.

If you want springs, hit me up, I'm selling SWIFT sport springs right now.

Thanks Kane...but what if I KEPT the stock shocks and just lowered the car with new springs. Can the stock shocks handle that, or do they wear out crazy fast?

Hmm...what kind of a drop would I get? How long have you used them for? Could I keep the stock shocks with them?

You got PM

Yeah a small drop is fine; but with the factory travel - you may have bottoming out/scraping issues (with a bodykit).... that was why I went to Coilovers.

I would say get some Swift springs like Imput is selling. Very nice springs! You don't need coilovers unless you are a hard core tracker.

^that or if you're just OCD about ride height and ride quality.

Personally i've been dying to match my swifts up w/some d-specs - but i keep hearing good things about the s-tech/koni yellow match up. I think coilovers are a good idea for if you're really serious about suspension or a real nit-picky driver. Nit picky not being a bad thing, just really concerned w/good ride quality.

U calling me OCD.....:nono:

ROFL!

I SAID "OR"!! :lol:

Nah; I can't drive for sh*t... I am just OCD.

Springs and shocks or coilovers. I do not think it is a good idea to just swap the springs and use with the OE shocks.

Thanks to everyone for the input. I have a Tsunami kit on my 8, so I guess I better change up both the springs and shocks. If I go with imput's springs, what's a good shock to pair them with?

Get adjustable shocks :)

Tokico and Konis are adjustable. The koni's will be stiffer.

I have heard good things about both Koni and Tokico.... but no personal expierience.

Konis and swift are a great combo. That's what I have on my car and it's fabulous on the track and in the corners but definitely harsh around town. If you track the car or autox I would go with the Konis. If you use it for a daily driver and drive it around town I would recommend the Tokicos as they will be more comfortable on the street and still give you the improved performance.

The other set that has gotten good reviews are the Bilsteins. They are not adjustable but supposed to be well sorted.

Thanks!! For Tokicos, do you recommend D-Specs or HP? Also, wouldn't the cost of coilovers be roughly the same as getting a set of shocks and springs? And if so, why don't people just get coilovers?

I've only heard of the D-specs. Springs and shocks run you ~900. basic coilovers run your around 1200 and go up from there. And I don't think the 1200 coilovers are as good as a proper spring/shock setup. Plus coilovers are typically a whole other animal in terms of suspension travel and dynamics. They tend to have much shorter springs with much stiffer rates relative to the aftermarket spring/shock setups.

And what kind of drop could I get with D-Specs and Swift Springs?

Some shocks & springs combos are better then the cheaper coilovers (Megans, Tein Basics, etc..)

I would definetly recommend you go for coilover kit like Megan racing one.

1. No chance of mismatching shock and spring stiffness and rates.

2. Much less hassle to install (you don't have to compress the springs, just swap the entire strut)

3. Megans have camber adjustability.

4. Megans have hight adjustability.

Megans > sping and shock swapping. Obviously.

Some racing classes require retention of stock spring rates, in which case swapping in aftermarket shocks makes sense for adjustability.

Using stock shocks with stiffer, lowered aftermarket springs is a bad idea - this will cutdown on shock travel (it will be partially compressed at full shock expand) and will probably be a mismatch of spring and dampening rates. You are more likely to bottom out and your shock's life expectancy will be shortened as well.

be warned though - if you value your ride quality, you'd do well to stay away from stiffer spring rates all togather and just keep it stock, RX8 is not exactly plush as is.

I don't know about D-specs You'd have to check with someone that has them. My Konis with Swift were 1.5" all around with ~7" of suspension travel.

I can't comment on the coilovers discussed above as I don't know much about Megan. It sounds very nice.

I do know there are some folks that sell cheap coilovers and their shocks aren't well matched or very durable as well. So just because they're coilovers doesn't make them better. A well designed quality set makes them better.

I don't have any direct experience with coilovers. I've only used the Koni shocks on another track vehicle, not the RX8, and they were great. Based upon what I have read, and my experience on the track with the Konis, is that one of the problems with coilovers that gets overlooked is that you aren't getting a top notch dampener (the dampener is the "shock" part of the coilover, not the strut or spring part) with many coilovers. Some of the dampeners actually suck for good handling. Many reviews by knowledgeable people who have put the dampeners on a shock dyno rate the Konis and Bilsteins as top notch and just about everything else, including the Japanese dampeners, as crap. Most of the dampeners that come with the coilovers that are adjustable adjust the rebound and the bounce at the same time which is bad. You can't get either one right. Koni yellows only adjust the rebound which is better because of the 2 rebound is more important. More expensive Konis adjust both rebound and bounce, but separately and independently, which is best.

If you just want to lower for looks, want simplicity and don't know or care much about handling, a coilover may be a better match for you. But if you do care about handling, know a bit and want to know more, or are tracking the car, a first class dampener like a Bilstein or Koni all by itself with just OEM springs is probably better than a poorly dampened coilover.

Aipex8 has D-Specs with Tein S-Tech and I believe his car is dropped 1.5" front and .7" rear.

May I chime in? Thx.
 

Here is what I think about the coil-overs versus springs/dampers debate:

A set of coil-overs is a great option for anybody who has as much money and time to spend on properly adjusting everything that decent coil-overs are capable of adjusting. It is not uncommon for coil-overs to require as much labor time and/or expense to properly set things like ride height, compression damping, rebound damping, and corner-weighting.

On the other hand, a decent pairing of spring/damper combo will bring the average enthusiast pretty close to the performance he/she is seeking without the needed expense of suspension tuning and time on the track in order to find the "perfect" settings.

Please also keep in mind that the greatest benefit to the adjustability of coil-overs was created to deal with the wide variance of surfaces that racetracks across the country and around the world are likely to have.

In other words, any RX-8 driven on the street really doesn't NEED coil-overs and most people are not the hard-core racers they might think themselves to be.

On the other hand, a decent spring/shock combo in the hands of somebody with a decent amount of "seat time" is all that is needed.

^^Well said.

Thanks to everyone for the great info. I think I will go with a combo a spring/damper combo (I am definitely not a hard-core racer). Based on what everyone is saying, I am concerned about getting a setup that will 'match' properly so that neither the damper nor spring is over-stressed. Are there any combos that you recommend as being as close to a perfect match as possible?

I know the Swifts and Racing Beat work well with the Konis.

I have heard that the Tein's work well with the Konis and Tokico D-specs.

I have heard that the Racing Beat's work well with the Tokico D-specs.

I know the Espelirs DO NOT work well with the Konis.

Just curious - Has anyone here that is suggesting shock/spring combo ever drive a car on coilover kit?

Yes. A good set of coilovers are excellent on the track.

Nemesis8 has an awesome set of Zeal coilovers on his car. I love them. I'd much rather have his setup then mine. But his setup also costs about 4x mine. I'd also like a turbo too...

Just thought i would comment since i was once in your position. I jumped on the low-end coilover bandwagon and went with Tein Basics. It was my first mod and i knew nothing. I jumped the gun a little and i'm not sure yet if i regret my purchase but here's what was going through my head at the time.

1. I wanted coilovers because i was under the impression they were easier to install. Typically they are but Tein Basics don't come with top mounts so i ended up having to get a spring compressor and do a lot more work than i originally thought. Basically the same install as springs and struts.
   
2. I wanted height adjustability because i did not want to get stuck a one hieght. I envisioned buying a set of springs that sat too low for driving around my area and being stuck with it. My driveway is pretty steep so if i didn't make it up after i installed my suspension i wanted the ability to raise it up just slightly.
   
   Although i like this feature i have the coilover set real close to the bottom (but not too low -- i forget what that magic number is but i'm at it :) )and i rarely scrape. I've gone up some insanely steep driveways and as long as you have the right angle and do not have fat friends you will not scrape. For this reason i'm not sure if there are many springs out there that are "too low". The stock bumpers covers wrap around the car like a glove, not stick out and hit inclines and dips -- they do hit curbs though :icon_no2: (IIRC you have a body kit though)
   
3. At the time I did not think dampening adjustability was necessary. I now think that it is :)

If i were to do it all over again i would probably go with koni's and some sort of spring combo or save more money for a higher-end coilover kit like the KW Variant III's

I'm not disappointed with my Tein Basics though. I've just seen the light.

Before you get springs or a set of coilovers why not invest in some sway bars and endlinks first. Its worth it. Big time.

Yes I had a at with tanabe gf210 springs. Now have a mt with tanabe gf210 springs and ap sway bars and endlinks. Have drove my friends 8 with tein basics. Love his ride set up so much that I can invision the tein basics with my ap sway bars and endlinks so bad that I'm getting some tein basics.
If all gos well, I'll be on the track in March and will have my bro shoot some vid. Keep you all posted. :smoker:
-Gil

My shocks feels quite bad and done after driving with stock shocks + H&R Springs.

I'm going to install my KW V3 coilovers and higher my car abit soon.

^Yea I like the look but the feel is only good for the street. I need something more.

I have the koni yellows and racingbeat springs. I have the fronts at 60% and the rears at 40%. I autocross quite a bit and my set up has helped me out quite a bit in that area.

If you are not racing I would highly suggest buying a set of sway bars and calling it a day. My combo has made the ride a lot harsher. I find myself apologizing to people who ride with me.

+1 I wouldn't recommend the Konis to someone that isn't really in to tracking or autoxing the car. The jounce is definitely harsh. It handles great but around town it's not comfortable. That's why I tell people to go with Tokico's if they're just looking for a little lowered look for street. They can be adjusted as soft as stock for the ladies and cranked up for the back roads.

I started with the RB springs and sways and they eliminated wheelhop, even with nitrous use. I now have the D-Specs and I like tham because they are easily adjustable.

The ride isn't that bad but this stuff is highly subjective as it really is a matter of matching the driver's abilites and preferences with the hardware.

I am soon to install Energy bushings, Progress Tech sways, and probably powder-paint the RB springs since I am in AZ now.

I have been using the tokico d-spec springs/struts for about 5K miles including 2 track days. On the street I bairly notice the difference in ride comfort but they handle much better then stock. At the track I stiffen them up and they handle great. The drop is 1.2" all the way around and even with the MS front bumper it does not scrap most driveways or speed bumps.

I recently picked up a set of kW variant 3 coilovers which have seperate adjustability for compression and rebound. These are the only coilovers I would buy but they cost $1800 which was twice as much as the tokico set up.

I will be selling the tokico d-spec springs/struts in about 1-2 weeks. I am think $450 shipped. Feel free to PM me if interested or keep an eye open for them in the FS section.

I have Tein Flex Coilovers and love them. I went with coilovers because of the added adjustability. After they were installed, I took my car to a performance shop to the suspension dialed in. Having your car aligned and corner balance makes a very noticeable difference!

PDX, how much did that suspension adjustment cost you and what all did they do for you?

PM sent :)

People need to hear your story as your chosen shop sounded pretty friggin' awesome and they asked ALL the right questions. It should serve as a standard of expectation for other who choose to go with a set of coil-overs.

And you guys thought I was a "hater"! :lol2:

Thanks again to everyone for the valuable input. I think I will go with the D-specs for my needs. Highway do you have a pic of your 8 with the Speed kit and the D-specs on? I've got a kit on too, and I'm wondering what the drop looks like and how clearance is? Thanks!!!!

No pics at the moment. Its at the body shop getting a CF hood painted/installed and a few paint chips fixed. When I get it back in a week I will take a few pics and include them in the FS thread and in this one. I did messure and the front bumper is 4.5" off the ground.

In case it matters; I sell the D-Specs for $595, shipped, and that includes a set of remote adjuster cables. I also use them on my own car.

PM'd ya

Just the struts with cables right? What is the price for the complete tokico spring/strut package? I dont think very many people realize that tokico sells them as a set.