Chris_Bangle

iTrader: (2)

After giving up on the idea of doing changing just the springs; I have decided to buy shock/spring combo. I am planning on getting it used hence a few questions on set up. As I am not interested in adjustable shocks so I am limited to a few choices: MazdaSpeed, Tein Basic, Bilstein. I already have RB front and rear sway bars on the car and am not plannig to change them.

I track my car and am mostly interested in track performance, (HPDE).

I have read quite a bit on Tein Basics and this seems to be a well coordinated suspension for the money. However I am thinking that the RB sways might be an overkill with such a stiff suspension. I have pm'd various people with this set up but was unable to get any kind of specific info. For the experts out there, will this set up make the car to twitchy so to speak?

As I am buying used I know that I might not be able to get the MazdaSpeed shocks matched up to MazdaSpeed springs. I assume since the MazdaSpeed springs are quite stiff this is probably what Mazda (Tokico) matched specifically to the shocks. So I am wondering how will the MazdaSpeed shocks work with something like Swift progressive springs or Tein S tech?
I am thinking this set up might work better with the RB sways them the original MazdaSpeed springs because it isn’t quite as stiff. On the other hand the shocks were matched with a specific spring and perhaps it is better to just go with it. If anyone is running such a set up or has general thoughts on the subject please share them.

The last option is matching up Bilstein HD shocks with some springs; they will probably work well with something like Swift or S tech since they are originally designed to work with the stock springs.

I am completely new to suspension set up so any help is appreciated.


P.S

I know that ideally I should probably be matching up sways to the shock/spring but I am not planning to part with the RB sways thus I have to work around them.


Swift:
3.7 Kg/mm 207 lbs/inch
1.6-2.3 Kg/mm 90-129 lbs/inch

Stock 'Sport' Suspension RX-8: 156/113 (F/R)
Mazdaspeed: 280/190 - Drop = 0.8"/0.8" ***** Not Confirmed - Actual rates have tested much lower
Tein S-Tech: 207/145 - Drop = 1.4"/0.7"
Tein H-Tech: 179/129 - Drop = 1.0"/0.3"
H&R: 195/141 (progressive) - Drop = 1.0"/1.0" *****Not Confirmed

swoope

iTrader: (5)

i have been in a car at a track day with rb sways / rb springs / and bilstien shocks.. it was very very impressive..

great shocks..

beers

Chris_Bangle

iTrader: (2)

Thanks swoope. That is certainly is a possibility, with perhaps Swift springs instead of RB. Thing is, not allot of people have Bilstein so it is hard to get a used deal on them.

Chris_Bangle

iTrader: (2)

Anyone ????

SouthFL

Get in touch with Bilstein directly. Supply your vehicle info, spring rate and they can revalve a set of dampers specifically for your application.
Another option is to get a set of Koni's and not worry about their adjustability- dial them in to a commonly used setting at install and forget about them. You can then make adjustments using adjustable sway bars, tire pressure, etc.

devildog1679

I drove my car at Road America both in stock set-up and with the MS suspension. All I can say is that I totaly loved it. Care feels planted, though you may pay more then the others due to it being labled MS.

zenmoused

There's a lot to be said for switching out springs/sway bars though. Our stock shocks are pretty good. If you don't have thousands to spend on it for now, I'd start with some RB sways, maybe a rear tower strut, and some springs. Just my 2 cents!

Chris_Bangle

iTrader: (2)

^I already have RB sway bars.
As for Bilstein the only problem with them is lack availability used.

That is why I am interested in the two other options:

1) Matching up MS shocks with Tein S or Swift.
2) Getting the Tein Basics.

And how both of those options will work with the RB sway bars.

Chris_Bangle

iTrader: (2)

Ok it seems to be coming down to the MazdaSpeed shocks. Now the question is what will be the best set up with the RB sways. MS springs, Swift, S tech, (EDIT) : or H&R


Swift:
3.7 Kg/mm 207 lbs/inch
1.6-2.3 Kg/mm 90-129 lbs/inch

Stock 'Sport' Suspension RX-8: 156/113 (F/R)
Mazdaspeed: 280/190 - Drop = 0.8"/0.8"
Tein S-Tech: 207/145 - Drop = 1.4"/0.7"

H&R Sport
Front drop 1.25"
Front rate 195 lb Progressive
Rear Drop 1.25"
Rear rate 141 lb Progressive

Chris_Bangle

iTrader: (2)

Well I seem to have the Swift springs and MazdaSpeed shocks lined up. New springs 150$, shocks were used for about 5k 300$. 450$ shipped to a friend in Indianapolis who will bring them to Detroit (anything not to pay customs )

Any thoughts on how this set up (MS shocks, Swift springs, RB sways) will work?

kwescott

I was dissapointed when I found out that the MS spring rates were completely wrong. The MS springs are the exact same spring as the Eibach progressive spring...and the spring rates are identical. As for the MS shocks, Ulllose had them tested and they were a tad stiffer than what comes on the stock suspension.

You'll be happy with the feel of the swift spring, or teins for that matter...as they feel very similar to stock. As for track, you might not be as happy with them as you may have hoped. I think the suggestion for Used Koni Yellows may have been more the way to go.

You've made an improvement on your car with the addition of the new parts, but I think there was more room for improvement. Money appears to have been a limiting factor in your choice, but I think you did well given that.

Chris_Bangle

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for the reply. Where did you find that MS springs and Eibachs are the same thing? I have done some research perhaps I missed this.

Chris_Bangle

iTrader: (2)

After talking to a few more people, and considering that most of the replys said Koni I decided to forget about the MazdaSpeed shock and get the Konis (still with Swift springs).

A quick general question. What is their rough lifespan?
How severly it depends on where they were set on for what they were used?

I have 47km on my car and feel the OEM shocks are already warn (especially when driving other 8s).
I am still thinking about getting a lighly used set, this has a major draw back, as far as I know the warranty is not going to be transefarable.

What is the lowest price people get them new? Seen some people post 500 shipped on a group buy of 4 sets

kwescott

Speeddemon32 is a good friend, and was the author of the "springs, springs, springs" thread. We gathered information for that thread, mainly off of information available through this forum, and through other sources on the web. We both autocross and are pretty competitive. He wanted to make his car more competitive, and thought it may have been the springs/struts he was using. He bought the MS springs and testing them on a tool that measures actual spring load. He was surprised when he found that they were almost exactly the same as stock. He called Mazda and asked to have a new set shipped, because the ones' he received and tested were not up to spec. Mazda responded with a question about "what specs?". Mazda has never posted specs for the MS suspension, or claimed any certain values for spring load. They did confirm that the MS springs were made by Eibach, and that Eibach may have information specific to the MS spring. The Eibach and Ms Spring are the same thing...and their spring rates are very similar to stock (as close as you can get comparing a standard spring with the Eibach progressive spring).

He then tested a set of Tein s-techs, and they were at the specs Tein claimed.

We then questioned where we got our information. We thought we got them from DPE, a forum vendor. I don't recall the response we got from DPE...it is in that springs, springs, springs thread though.

kwescott

Speak with DPE, he is a forum vendor and has new sets for a good price. I would recommend setting them at level 4....with 5 being full stiff. Just be aware that the front and rears are adjusted differently. One goes clockwise to stiff, the other, counterclosckwise for stiff. Check it by collapsing the piston on the ground and watch it expand out of the sleave.

Don't know about lifespan, but as you referred to, they do have a warranty with Koni.

Razz1

I would use the Konis or the Tockio D spec shocks

Chris_Bangle

iTrader: (2)

A big thanks to everyone who shared their knowledge, I have decided on the Koni's and I now have to figure out what spring do I want to match up with the Koni shocks and RB sway. I will close this thread and start a new one dedicated to doing just that.

swoope

iTrader: (5)

https://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php...53&postcount=1

lots of good info here if you have not seen it... the ms springs are in big ? right now..

beers