Lock & Load

UNDER SPIRITED DRIVING SITUATIONS THE REAR END OF OUR CARS , are extremely soft the whole rear end seems to collapse on one side , i know that some of you have looked into a possibly fix to this situation .

Has anyone resolved this problem /or we just pretend that it doesnt exist ??

Sway bars have helped but theres still heaps of downward movement when cornering .

In the race for more power Turboes /supercharging i believe we have overlooked the handling issues with the rear end

This photo of lexics car explains what i am talking about .


Cheers
michael

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

well I've raced one competitively with only a good set of Koni shocks installed and sticky DOT-R tires (which greatly increase lateral grip) and I don't have any complaints about the rear suspension

in fact, it's one of the best handling Stock class cars I've ever driven and that's a lot of hot cars

otherwise, just install stiffer springs ...

awwqpwwa

i have 265 dunlop race stickies in the rears and fronts and my rear just drops and hits the fender..low offset so it sticks out...but yah..i tend to feel the back just dip super low and rub..stock sus i might add most companies make softer spring rate in the rear..than in the front rather that what i think to make it better situated i would run the same rate all around and maybe even harder in the rear than the front with the sways set and medium and the fronts on hard.... just waht i think..imma get custom spring rates on my car..about 660 front and 700 rear i think...so ill let you know when i get them and even can afford them..

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

there's a good reason to have a compliant rear suspension, when you're going off the track backwards you'll understand what it is

but that's all I have to say about it

Dark8

Do me a favor and capture your first driving experience on video so the rest of us can laugh our butts off when you go spinning off the first fast corner you take. 265s shouldn't be rubbing in the rear unless you are running wheels with the wrong offset.

DPE

iTrader: (1)

Hey, we're not ignoring it! The main weakness in the rear end is shock damping, and it was evident the first time I drove the car down a twisty road. The car rolls a lot which doesn't hurt anything by itself until you're at the edge of the envelope and dynamic alignment angles go sour, but the shock damping makes things in back move around WAY too much if you hit so much as a cigarette butt in mid-corner under moderate cornering speeds.

This is why one of our RX8s has Tein Basic coilovers on it, and why the other one is getting Koni shocks in the very near future. We're going to try Konis with stock springs, then with aftermarket springs from Vogtland and Tein and try to figure out what works the best. One or both cars will also eventually get Tanabe swaybars, but we're trying to work on one component at a time to get an idea of what helps the most. Eventually we hope to have a package of parts that 'cleans up' the RX8s handling without one having to spend a fortune or sacrificing much in ride quality.

As far as 'solving the problem', I'd say the Tein Basics amost do the trick by themselves. The damping issues in the rear are totally cured, and the instability of the rear end at 10/10ths is gone. We'd still prefer less body roll though, and I'm guessing many would like adjustable damping instead of adjustable ride height, so we'll be trying out the Koni/aftermarket-spring combos as well. Once we figure out what works best, and what the best value is, we'll put together a package that will solve the problem entirely .

Lock & Load

Could you explain your views

cheers
michael

TheDosDog

The complinant rear suspension is what keeps the rear stuck to the ground. The stiffer it becomes the easier it is to come around on you (i.e 1st gen). A stock 8 pushes a bit by design for safety reasons (much easier to recover from a push) . I installed stiffer RB springs and sways and KONI shocks on my eight to get the handling where I like it (pretty close to neutral). This car was built for the masses which means the sportscar enthusiasts will have to upgrade to get sportscar handling.

Lock & Load

Dos dog

I understand were your coming from but i would have prefered to be given the option of a different harder setup after all they are selling it as a sportscar and not a floating boat .

cheers
michael

TheDosDog

Like MazdaSpeed?

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

like I said, if you want more than shocks then go with stiffer springs, but you need the right balance front to rear, the aftermarket companies don't keep the rear softer because they're dumb

but shocks don't limit body roll, they just control the rate at which it occurs

IMO the stock shocks let it flop over too easy, but this is common with most stock shocks because they have been tuned with ride quality in mind because the avg Joe and Jane would complain otherwise, as many manufacturers have learned the hard way. You can make the body roll more to your liking, but you'll probably have to sacrifice ride quality to achieve it.

awwqpwwa

i run the same size and offset as the feed rx8...just need a roll and pull..i think thats good enough..no harm and trying a different setup...you gotta make mistakes sometime and learn.... i dont believe in following the crowd...ill try my own things and work from there...

-gene-

takahashi

To lexic defense... he was actually wanting to park at the car park on the right for a "****" stop. :D

Also, I think there are too much body roll and damper is too soft for the job. Good tyre can hold it in most situations.

Shock will be nice, with sway and strut complete the picture.

Springrate and damper setting is too personal for their own driving style. Rear spring rate ranges from 4kg for part timer to 8kg for full time racer (very hardcore).

You have to get something adjustable to test it on track. Most of people who does autocross or track day will notice slight difference in travel and can adjust it with advise from mechanic or experience racer.

Sounds fun does it. Yes it does :p

TheDosDog

Here's a pic of Murix at ThunderHill. Notice that the front is down on the bump stop also. This car was equipped with RB springs and sways so you can imagine how the stock components perform in similar circumstances.

schrottie

Jesus - It's a f***ing stock-setup! Get a fwd-car and be happy!

TheDosDog

Exactly my point. The 8 is not weak in the back. It's just stock.

Lock & Load

Taka

To lexic defense... he was actually wanting to park at the car park on the right for a "****" stop.( Quote )

In no way was i having a go at Lexic i only used his photo to illustrate my point.

AND IF AS YOU SUGGEST HE WASNT DRIVING HARD BUT ACTUALLY slowing down wanting to park to go for a **** , that makes my point even stronger that the stock rear set up is **** weak poor.

cheers
michael

lexic

No offence has been taken. I wasn't stopping for a "**** stop", there was a big, wide open, vacant, flat, slippery surface that was just screaming out "CIRCLE WORK!!!" to me. Especially with the adrenaline flowing freely after flying up the mountain flat out!

clyde

And here's one on stock springs, stock sway bars and Koni shocks on Kumho V710s.



What was the point of this?

TheDosDog

My point was that I don't really feel our car is weak in the rear so much as stock all the way around. If you drive it this hard on the stock springs and sways it will lay on the bump stops. We have more travel before contacting the bump stop than some other cars (i.e. Miata) so the drop during hard corning is more apparent. But this does not mean the car is a boat or ill handling in any respect for that matter. Nice shot!

zoom44

suddenly my fantastic handling for completly stock car has been turned into a floating boat by lock and load. we should all be ashamed for buying this piece of garbage. mine's going to the junk heap right now

Lock & Load

I love my car as much as anyone here on the forum however i am prepared to acknowledge both its good points and some of the NOT so good points and for me the rear end is one of them .


cheers
michael

murix

It is lost on me. This car rocks. I love those early pictures. I was sliding it at that point. I have upgraded to MS Springs/shocks since and recently went to buttonwillow.

A weak rear end was the last thing on my mind. On the contrary that rear kept me planted quite well.

L&L, what exactly are you basing your opinion on and what are you using as a reference?

RotorManiac

Stock the car handles very well.
I tried getting rid of the body roll myself, by changing the sway bars, I got the MS ones. Good, but not enough. So I went on changing the springs/shocks. I got the HKS hipermax II coilovers. I have to say they do an amazing job, the car feels very different.
Body roll is almost gone and I haven't tried the stiffest setting yet... on an average road the rear is planted, while on a slippery one traction is lost in 'bullet time' and drifting is easier and more precise...

takahashi

Get front and rear struts too... it will help the suspension too.

Also the under brace... love them.