My second set of Teins is done?
10-12-2010, 08:23 PM
#29
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I still can't believe how quickly the suspension went to **** but we had a look again tonight and with Grunge and I leaning on it, it hits the bumpstops easily.
10-12-2010, 11:51 PM
#32
As others have stated, it's not the springs, it's the (blown) shocks.
But, I certainly won't discourage somebody from moving to a coil-over system, even a low-end setup. It's got to be better than an S-Tech/OEM combo.
BTW, if you want to prevent you shocks from blowing out on a lowered car, consider putting one or two 3/4" fender washers between the lower shock mount and the suspension upright (these are in addition to the single OEM washer that is already there). The 3/4" washers (which actually need their ID increased slightly to fit over the shafts on the uprights; a Dremel tool make short work of this) bring the shock shafts back into alignment with the suspension geometry of the lowered car and reduces side loading on the shock seals. I believe this is the main cause of OEM shocks wearing out quickly on a lowered car, as opposed to a mis-match between shock & spring forces.
But, I certainly won't discourage somebody from moving to a coil-over system, even a low-end setup. It's got to be better than an S-Tech/OEM combo.
BTW, if you want to prevent you shocks from blowing out on a lowered car, consider putting one or two 3/4" fender washers between the lower shock mount and the suspension upright (these are in addition to the single OEM washer that is already there). The 3/4" washers (which actually need their ID increased slightly to fit over the shafts on the uprights; a Dremel tool make short work of this) bring the shock shafts back into alignment with the suspension geometry of the lowered car and reduces side loading on the shock seals. I believe this is the main cause of OEM shocks wearing out quickly on a lowered car, as opposed to a mis-match between shock & spring forces.
10-13-2010, 12:18 AM
#33
No, it is the springs (for me at least). The springs are not as stiff as they should be and the springs are too tall in the rear. Makes the car look like it has a rake. The H-techs on the other hand are much better spring rate wise, they just dont drop very much.
I should say Ive owned tein coilovers on previous cars and was happy with the performance. Seems like the springs though need a bit of help.
I should say Ive owned tein coilovers on previous cars and was happy with the performance. Seems like the springs though need a bit of help.
Last edited by Ross_Dawg; 10-13-2010 at 12:21 AM.
10-13-2010, 07:24 AM
#34
9rpmrx8,
Since the s-techs are progressive, those top four coils can be compressed easily by pushing down on them a little. Now I might have to rethink my upcoming spring needs to match Bilstein HD.
Since the s-techs are progressive, those top four coils can be compressed easily by pushing down on them a little. Now I might have to rethink my upcoming spring needs to match Bilstein HD.
10-13-2010, 09:28 AM
#35
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As others have stated, it's not the springs, it's the (blown) shocks.
But, I certainly won't discourage somebody from moving to a coil-over system, even a low-end setup. It's got to be better than an S-Tech/OEM combo.
BTW, if you want to prevent you shocks from blowing out on a lowered car, consider putting one or two 3/4" fender washers between the lower shock mount and the suspension upright (these are in addition to the single OEM washer that is already there). The 3/4" washers (which actually need their ID increased slightly to fit over the shafts on the uprights; a Dremel tool make short work of this) bring the shock shafts back into alignment with the suspension geometry of the lowered car and reduces side loading on the shock seals. I believe this is the main cause of OEM shocks wearing out quickly on a lowered car, as opposed to a mis-match between shock & spring forces.
But, I certainly won't discourage somebody from moving to a coil-over system, even a low-end setup. It's got to be better than an S-Tech/OEM combo.
BTW, if you want to prevent you shocks from blowing out on a lowered car, consider putting one or two 3/4" fender washers between the lower shock mount and the suspension upright (these are in addition to the single OEM washer that is already there). The 3/4" washers (which actually need their ID increased slightly to fit over the shafts on the uprights; a Dremel tool make short work of this) bring the shock shafts back into alignment with the suspension geometry of the lowered car and reduces side loading on the shock seals. I believe this is the main cause of OEM shocks wearing out quickly on a lowered car, as opposed to a mis-match between shock & spring forces.
10-20-2010, 02:35 PM
#38
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9k: I just installed some d-specs on my tanabe gf210's and i'm getting the sagging issue in the rear you currently have. I was on stock shocks before and they weren't that low. did you figure out if its the springs or not?
10-20-2010, 03:57 PM
#39
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Man, this issue has me confused now. So I just got off the phone with Tein USA support and I am more confused.
So with any weight over 50lbs or so in the rear of my car and my fenders touch the tires. I inspected the shocks and they show no visual signs of failure but the ride is shitty and I can lose traction easily even with the new tires. I did a bit of research and it led me to believe that it was likely the failure of the springs because shocks should not affect ride height. Right?
But, I called Tein and the tech told me that if the springs are sagging more than 5mm and this happened abruptly then the cause is likely due to blown shocks. he said sagging springs are an issue rarely on their springs but that it is usually a manufacturing flaw and that it is always noticeable soon after installation and not on springs that are used for a significant amount of time.
I have an opportunity to get a new set of S techs but I am a bit hesitant if these only lasted as long as they did. But then again, now I am confused as to whether its the shocks or springs?
So with any weight over 50lbs or so in the rear of my car and my fenders touch the tires. I inspected the shocks and they show no visual signs of failure but the ride is shitty and I can lose traction easily even with the new tires. I did a bit of research and it led me to believe that it was likely the failure of the springs because shocks should not affect ride height. Right?
But, I called Tein and the tech told me that if the springs are sagging more than 5mm and this happened abruptly then the cause is likely due to blown shocks. he said sagging springs are an issue rarely on their springs but that it is usually a manufacturing flaw and that it is always noticeable soon after installation and not on springs that are used for a significant amount of time.
I have an opportunity to get a new set of S techs but I am a bit hesitant if these only lasted as long as they did. But then again, now I am confused as to whether its the shocks or springs?
10-20-2010, 04:15 PM
#41
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yea im confused too. haha. i changed out the shocks and bushings in hopes of getting rid of squeaking that's been haunting me for quite some time. now i have knocking noises as if somethings loose and springs that look like they need replacing. (knocking only on the rear passenger side)
looks nice and slammed, but im sure its not supposed to be that low. lol
top 4 coils are touching with car on the ground!
looks nice and slammed, but im sure its not supposed to be that low. lol
top 4 coils are touching with car on the ground!
Last edited by silverbullet05; 10-20-2010 at 04:19 PM.
10-20-2010, 04:21 PM
#42
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No man, your springs are binding too you should not be sitting that low with no weight in the car. I have seen this with a set of Racing Beat springs as well that were replaced under warranty.
10-20-2010, 04:33 PM
#43
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*goes and orders coilovers* haha just kidding. im too broke for that!
i think im gonna just put the stock springs back on for the meantime. Cant really blame the d-specs for the increase in drop. At least i know now its the springs. I just think it's really weird that it was higher with the tanabe springs/stock shocks.....
i think im gonna just put the stock springs back on for the meantime. Cant really blame the d-specs for the increase in drop. At least i know now its the springs. I just think it's really weird that it was higher with the tanabe springs/stock shocks.....
10-21-2010, 03:19 PM
#45
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From Tein:
http://www.tein.com/products/s_tech.html
• Chrome Vanadium SAE9254V Construction • Progressive Spring Rate Design • Includes Silencer Rubber on certain applications • Green Powder Coat Finish • Developed to be used in conjunction with OEM or OEM replacement dampers • 1-year Manufacturers Defect and Sag Warranty Covers over 5mm sag,
Additional Features:breakage, deformity, and noise. Does not cover powder coat finish and rusting.
10-21-2010, 05:36 PM
#48
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As others have stated, it's not the springs, it's the (blown) shocks.
But, I certainly won't discourage somebody from moving to a coil-over system, even a low-end setup. It's got to be better than an S-Tech/OEM combo.
BTW, if you want to prevent you shocks from blowing out on a lowered car, consider putting one or two 3/4" fender washers between the lower shock mount and the suspension upright (these are in addition to the single OEM washer that is already there). The 3/4" washers (which actually need their ID increased slightly to fit over the shafts on the uprights; a Dremel tool make short work of this) bring the shock shafts back into alignment with the suspension geometry of the lowered car and reduces side loading on the shock seals. I believe this is the main cause of OEM shocks wearing out quickly on a lowered car, as opposed to a mis-match between shock & spring forces.
But, I certainly won't discourage somebody from moving to a coil-over system, even a low-end setup. It's got to be better than an S-Tech/OEM combo.
BTW, if you want to prevent you shocks from blowing out on a lowered car, consider putting one or two 3/4" fender washers between the lower shock mount and the suspension upright (these are in addition to the single OEM washer that is already there). The 3/4" washers (which actually need their ID increased slightly to fit over the shafts on the uprights; a Dremel tool make short work of this) bring the shock shafts back into alignment with the suspension geometry of the lowered car and reduces side loading on the shock seals. I believe this is the main cause of OEM shocks wearing out quickly on a lowered car, as opposed to a mis-match between shock & spring forces.
I have been thinking about this. So you add two washers (factory and the one we are adding) to the shock shaft, then the rubber bushing?
10-23-2010, 04:35 PM
#49
No, the washers do not go on the shock shaft.
You slip them over the stubby little shaft that sticks out of the lower upright - the shaft that the bottom of the shock mounts to. There is already one washer there, that goes between the shock eye and the upright. I added two more (again, I used two 3/4" fender washers with slightly enlarged holes) for a total of three.
I should point out that the reason I did this is that I wanted to use 2.5" racing springs on the rear, and if you don't do this, the springs rub on the shock body because of miss-alignment between the shock and the spring. The two washers (in conjunction with the OEM washer that is already there) act as a standoff, pushing the bottom of the shock away from the lower upright and improving shock/spring concentricity.
This also means that the shock doesn't have as much support from the lower shaft, but it hasn't been a problem for me so far.
Note that Ohlins provides a spacer with their kit, and I know others in the MX-5 community have done this, so it seems like a reasonable thing to do.
I hope to take apart my rear suspension again this winter and actually measure what's going on down there. When I first did this, one washer didn't seem to be enough but two kept the spring clear of the shock (if I carefully aligned everything) so I just left it at that. I really don't know if it's optimum.
You slip them over the stubby little shaft that sticks out of the lower upright - the shaft that the bottom of the shock mounts to. There is already one washer there, that goes between the shock eye and the upright. I added two more (again, I used two 3/4" fender washers with slightly enlarged holes) for a total of three.
I should point out that the reason I did this is that I wanted to use 2.5" racing springs on the rear, and if you don't do this, the springs rub on the shock body because of miss-alignment between the shock and the spring. The two washers (in conjunction with the OEM washer that is already there) act as a standoff, pushing the bottom of the shock away from the lower upright and improving shock/spring concentricity.
This also means that the shock doesn't have as much support from the lower shaft, but it hasn't been a problem for me so far.
Note that Ohlins provides a spacer with their kit, and I know others in the MX-5 community have done this, so it seems like a reasonable thing to do.
I hope to take apart my rear suspension again this winter and actually measure what's going on down there. When I first did this, one washer didn't seem to be enough but two kept the spring clear of the shock (if I carefully aligned everything) so I just left it at that. I really don't know if it's optimum.
10-23-2010, 04:56 PM
#50
Like this (red arrow points to added washers):
Of course, I can't prove this extends shock life, but there is a surprising amount of misalignment between the shock and the springs in the rear when the RX-8 is lowered, and such misaligments are generally considered bad for damper life.
Of course, I can't prove this extends shock life, but there is a surprising amount of misalignment between the shock and the springs in the rear when the RX-8 is lowered, and such misaligments are generally considered bad for damper life.