slipangle

I'll be receiving my 2005 RX8 this coming Tuesday. Completely sport stock. This will be replacing my miata as my daily driver. Anybody want to buy a 94 Spec Miata? Well, almost spec miata. I can provide details for whomever is interested.

I've read quite a threads here, but have not found the answer I'm looking for. I'm new, so please bear with me.

Question is, what is the best bang for the buck for improvement in handling? With financial responsibilies of being a family man, I can't be blowing thousands at mods. Also, since I was used to driving a miata with the hardest ground control springs (700/325), and a complete roll cage, I can take a relatively firm ride. However, unlike the miata, this setup will have to NOT wake a toddler (1.5 year old) in the car seat behind. I'm not looking for a slammed look, but a little lowering might be nice, both aesthetically, and for lowering of CG.

Car might see touge action time to time, autocross occasionally, and being realistic, probably track only an average of once a year or less, even if I'd like that to be more often.
This is also my daily driver, and will be an occasional wife transporter in the weekends, who has an even lower tolerance for a harsh ride than the little one. (She HATES my miata. We take the V40 most of the time).

Will a set of sways tighten up the handling? What brand? I'd like a neutral handling, and not an increase in understeer just for firmness sake. Tires are relatively new, so I won't be doing any tire or wheel upgrades anytime soon.

Thanks much.

Mazurfer

Given all your parameters, check out www.racingbeat.com for springs, sways, and endlinks.

SleepeR1st

iTrader: (2)

Bilstein Shocks plus Racing Beat Springs.

bse50

Given your detailed needs I think that with just springs and sways, or maybe koni yellows (or similar dampers), springs and sways would be nice for you.

slipangle

Thanks for all the replies.
Would you folks recommend sways first or springs? Front or rear sways, or both at once? Of course, I'd probably have to pay for labor to install springs, but I can see perhaps doing the sways myself. Car currently has 26K on it. How long do the stock struts last? Perhaps I could change out the springs when I need to change those out.
For shocks, how would you all compare bilsteins (model?) vs. tokikos (D spec?) vs. konis? What about springs? Racing beat vs. pro kits? These spring rates seem so mild compared to my 700 lb springs on a miata! How come there are no springs in the 300 lb range? That seems like a more reasonable range for handling, isn't it? Is there something about the RX8 I don't know about? Just thinking out loud, if a miata can take 700 lbs. in front (albeit kinda harsh), 300-350 lbs. for a slightly heavier RX8 sounds like a good combo of handling and comfort, doesn't it?

04Green

iTrader: (1)

I did brakes, springs/shocks, tires then sways. The order was driven by the limitations I found on the track. But, car also had 75,000 miles on it. An 05 will likely be in the same boat.

Springs were H-Tech. Firmer, but not *** or toddler busting. People have had issues with S-Tech settling here and on the WRX/STI site. I got pictures here : https://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php...34&postcount=3. They let me kill the front wheel gap without messing too much with the back.

You can adjust the D-Specs ON THE CAR, front and BACK, if you want to event a DD, only way to go IMHO. 2 turns for the track, 7 for the ride back and forth. Get the cable adjusters and follow the post above for pointers to installation links. Routing the cable is hard part, but beats pulling the shocks off the car to change them.. I count unbolting the bottom of the shock and twisting it, with the top still attached, as pulling it off the car.

For Sways, again IMHO, go adjustable. I did the Progress Tech ones from Black Halo. I added grease fitting based on people talking about needing to lube urethane bushings after a few years. You get get some with them installed, but they are like $100 more. $3 of zerk fittings at Autozone, a drill and a tap and you are good to go.

I just got back from Roebling. I had the sways in the softest setting front and back and tires (V12) at what was best last time. Car was pushing. Um, I took a car that was pushing, into an early apex on 9. (there is a group from the GA RX8 Club that might be laughing right now) I left a great set of tracks for the green and blue track walk later in the day. I could see them all pointing and nodding. Apparently I did it right. Back to story, I moved the rear point, on one side one hole (7/8") and got a completely perfect car. Without the ability to adjust, I would have been messing with tire pressures and trashing tires. Now, I can mess with them to improve grip, not to screw it up.

Again, my opinions. Congrats, and good luck.

Also, check out the links in my sig.

longpath

iTrader: (1)

I have an S1 and am in a similar situation to the OP. My wife, daughter, and I live in a condominium and have the additional problem that the first three speed bumps in the parking lot are two tall to get over without scraping the bottom of the car in front of the rear wheels while my wife and daughter (age 3) are sitting in the back (my wife insists on riding on the back with our daughter, though I'd intended her to ride in the front with me and our daughter to be behind me). I had been thinking of replacing the OEM shocks with approximately 51K miles on them with coil-overs to allow me to increase the ride height in the rear an inch or so to let it clear the speed bumps (I'm easing over these at no more than 1mph and still scraping) and more when we go on trips with the trunk/boot laden with luggage; but then I read that the S2 has almost the exact same rear shocks except that the spring seats are relocated in such a way that it's similar to what I'd intended with the coil-overs; but with less hassle getting them dialed in.

I checked Koni's web site and the front Koni yellows are the same part for the S1 and S2; but different for the rears.

What do you all think? Can I use S2 Koni yellows in the rear on my S1 to get the effect I'm looking for, or should I go for coil-overs? This is a daily driver, and reliability is my primary concern. That's one reason I use Pirelli runflats (the Pirelli P-Zero Nero runflat is about the same weight as the OEM Bridgestone, and a lot lighter than the Bridgestone runflat that BMW uses). I also use Evans coolant because I really can't afford to have the car overheat and leave me stranded somewhere.

Will coil-overs, once dialed in, hold their settings or will they vibrate loose and need to be periodically tightened down?

REDRX3RX8

Best mod for a sport suspension that already has yellow sways and 18 wheels is an alignment at a place that lets you sit in the car and tell the mechanic where to set it.

My car had Kumho SPT's on it with light steering but firm and some noise, and the car had strong understeer.

So when the tires wore out at 20k and 9 track days, I put on lower profile 225/40r18 Hankook Ventus Evo v12 k110.

Wow, they were even softer. quieter, and grippier in the lower profile, and when I set the alignment at -1.7 camber front and back with near zero toe the 8 is very close to neutral going into slight controllable oversteer under full throttle.

My front spoiler is about 5 inches off the ground which is about the average height of those concrete parking stops, but I did lower it 1 cm by the lower profile, and I use scangauge for corrected MPH.

I don't have to slow down for any speed bump anywhere, and I haven't found one yet that catches my spoiler before the tires, so I've got a true streetable track car!

slipangle

Thanks for all responses, especially Mr. Green from Oviedo.
Lucky thing is, the 05 I just bought has only 26K on her. That's right, 26K miles!
So, when would the shocks go? I'll probably do the Tokiko D shocks. I wonder if I buy these with springs together, if the retailer (probably online) will install them for free? Then I can just get the local shop to put them in for me. Saves on labor. Did you cross shop any other comparable springs before settling on the Tein H? If so, what were your considerations?
For sways, I think adjustable is the way to go as well. Again, what other comparable sways did you cross shop? Some are adjustable on the rears only, which theoretically should be enough to adjust front/rear balance. But yes, more adjustments are offer better tuning options. Unfortunately, I may not have the time to attend to those tuning options, with both us parents working and one child and no family support, but that's a different matter.

With the low mileage on mine, I'd probably do the sways first until it's time to change the shocks.

Curious thing, my RX8 has the same tires as you as well. With all your suspension mods, it must be the limiting factor for you now. Will you be upgrading to better traction next? Again, any thoughts on wheel/tire options for a streetable track car?
You seem to have thought things out well, and so a curious mind wants to know!

BTW, the link to the cheapo mods are great. Now that's my kind of mods!

phrenetiK

iTrader: (6)

i love my tokico d + tein s techs. rides fine for me.

c0ldf1ame

iTrader: (5)

fatcat bilsteins, fatcat bumpstops 58red/58reg tein tapered coilover springs rated at 400/280, tein tender springs and some 5inch long coilover sleeves, can get the whole setup for under 1500, rides almost as smooth as stock and handles like a champ with very neutral balance (less under-steer)

note: this setup is only height adjustable, but can be expanded to be double adjustable later on

04Green

iTrader: (1)

Questions, in order I think..

I ended up shopping for front and rear drop. I was looking for a front drop of an inch more than the back, and to be able to get in the driveway. I actually glued some foam under the splitter and drove to test the various drops. H-Tech matched what I wanted, and gave me the rake I was looking for. All the others, were either too low, or a square drop. I price shopped them after that decision point.

Sways, wanted to adjust front and rear, BHR had them, price was competitive or better than competitive, done deal. There is a local place that sells them, but I had to pay sales tax, cheaper to get them this way.

Someone smarter than I am will have to way in on age vs. miles in wearing out shocks.

I love the V-12s for tires, others like them as well. I have about 20 session on them and they look good. Being able to adjust out the push with the bars, instead of air pressure, will make them last even longer. They are nice and stable at 85 across a field as well.

Unless the shocks explode, the sways first is a good idea. I would suggest progress tech, and the rear one on hole off softest on one side for starters. The front in the softest one. It is easy to tune on a track day, I did mine without even pulling the tire. Just adjust the pass side first, it does not have the damn head light level adjuster in they way.

There are several religions on street track tires. I plan on joining the one where you get light 17 inch wheels and some of the streetable tack tires. Autocross is one one set of rules, track is another. Biggest deal is how long it takes them to warm up. That takes money though... Right now, I need to focus on learning to drive what I got, then bump up the tires. There is no shortcut to experience.

You did not mention brakes. My religion there is punt the fluid in the car before you enter the same zipcode as a track or autocross. Get some of the super blue stuff and the harbor freight bleeder kit. Get the old fluid out. Do NOT pay dealer, this is the most important mod you can do to the car. There are several brake bleeding DIY threads. It is going into the Next $100 section when I write it. You are the first to know.

PM me with specific stuff, or post here. I will share what I know. But, there is a TON of knowledge here.

Mike

04Green

iTrader: (1)

to Longpath.

Try these in the rear...
http://www.amazon.com/Mr-Gasket-1281...=pd_sim_auto_3

Let us know, Beats dragging the ground. Pop them out to get back to normal if you want to track of something, I would NOT take them on a track, but they should get you over the bumps.

c0ldf1ame

iTrader: (5)

^ the reason i dont like ATE super blue is that its been 3-4 brake flushes since i've used it, and my brake fluid is still coming out a dirty green color, the ATE superblue dyes everything in the system, and its hard to get out, motul rbf600 is a better fluid anyways and not that much more

Highway8

iTrader: (11)

I see your in the SF Bay Area, where exactly? I am in the fairfield area and my car is set up for the track, minus being stripped out and having a cage installed, and it is still very comfortable on the street. If you want to take a ride some time, let me know.

I am currently on KW Variant 3 coilovers (might be more then your budget allows) and my previous set up was tokico d-spec springs and struts which was also very streetable but improved the handeling. I have "a guy" for both if you are interested.

I highly recommend the progress tech sway bars, agency power bars are basicly the same.

If you are going to track the car at all, good clean fluid with an upgraded pad will be fine. Hawk HPS or HP+ depending on how hard you will push it and your tires.

slipangle

Mike,
Thanks for all your answers. I'd probably look at doing those small maintenance/mods that you have listed, then get used to the car before looking at further mods. Yes, I'm leaning towards first doing the sways, and looks like quite a few suggest the progress tech here, so that it will be. Good tip on the drill and tap for grease. One thing that's going through my mind from reading some of the threads here is, how much do sways help if one has good springs and shocks, and adjustable shocks at that? If not much at that point, then I might just wait it out until I change the springs and shocks. I'll just bear the soft ride until then, and put the savings towards tires and/or wheels. Thoughts?

Highway8,
I'm in Alameda county. Will shoot you a PM when I can find some time to get up to Fairfield. Definitely interested to see how your car rides. However, yes, your coilovers are way over my budget. Nice track videos, and nice driving! You seem to be passing everybody, including that Ford GT.

Highway8

iTrader: (11)

That ford GT must have been warming up, he was soooo slow.

I would replace the shocks and struts before the sways.

04Green

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the suggestion.. I have a flush coming up. Specs look a little higher, I will miss the cool blue color though.....

Highway8

iTrader: (11)

I have been using standard dot 3/4 fluid with no problems. The key is having clean and dry fluid.

I only recently started using willwood high temp 570 fluid. At $7 or less a bottle I can flush my fluid twice as often and still spend less then with the Motul.

If I want to spend almost $20 a bottle I would use the Willwood exp 600. It has a dry boiling temp of 626 and wet of 417 compared to motul rpf600 which is 593/420.

slipangle

Regarding brakes, yes, I should get one of those bleeder kits. At under $10, that's a good buy. Been using the old 'get your wife to pump the brakes' trick so far.