CodingParadox

I brought my RX8 to Omni Brake+Alignment today, a local shop with a good reputation. My instructions were as follows:
Front: As much camber as possible
Rear: Front camber + 0.5
Zero toe all around
As much caster as possible after getting as much camber as possible.

So, they set about their work, and came back with this:

Before:
Front:
Camber (L/R): 0.0/0.4
Caster: 7.0/6.5
Toe: 0.11/0.09

Rear:
Camber: -1.4/-1.5
Toe: 0.09/0.30

After:
Front:
Camber: -0.9/-0.8 (!!!!)
Caster: 6.7/6.8
Toe: 0.01/-0.01

Rear:
Camber: -1.4/-1.4
Toe: 0.01/0.00

So, in summary, they could only get 0.9/0.8 out of the front camber. I've read that people have been getting some low camber numbers out of their 8, but this seems ridiculous!

RX8Maine

I got -1.0/-1.0 camber on the front with -7.0/-6.9 caster and zero toe. I only asked for -1.0 on the front camber (daily driver) so I have no idea whether they could have gotten more. On the rear, they were only able to get -1.3/-1.4 camber without "taking things apart" which I found surprising. Overall, as long as the rear camber is equal or greater than the front, I feel safe tossing it into corners on the street.

dsmdriver

iTrader: (3)

With my stock suspension, I could only get about -.4 degrees on my front, so you should feel lucky.

CodingParadox

Ick. Why do I have a nasty feeling there's just a guy welding the rear suspension mounts to random spots in every RX-8. :P

CosmosMpower

I think -1 camber and -1.5 or so is pretty standard with stock suspension. I'll report back when I get off my butt and take mine in but the S2000 is so much more fun to autocross

CodingParadox

Meh, I've been running my dad's S2000 a bunch over the last year, and only just switched to my RX-8 at this last autox. They're pretty damn similar, really. The RX-8 has slightly less power, but with the shocks I put in, feels more confident than the S2k in the twisties. I'm pretty split on which is more fun to autox. I can't wait to actually try the RX-8 with an alignment now.

CosmosMpower

Let me know the difference before/after. I think the S is more nimble since it's lighter and the turn in feels faster because the steering ratio is quicker. Also with the top down you get a better view of the course and can look ahead easier. The S is more tail happy and the 8 is much easier to catch a slide, but I agree they are comparable.

dsmdriver

iTrader: (3)

It's one event, but at the 2005 Nationals, the fastest stock RX8 ran a 114.798 while the fastest S2000 ran a 119.944. That's a pretty huge difference.

The RX8 can easily beat an S2000 on many tracks. At the EVO school this week CodingParadox was running an RX8 and Spider124 a S2000 and the 8 was running faster times.

brattesani

i got -1.75 camber on both sides but I took out all the castor. but even with all the castor gone the car still goes in a straight line.

dsmdriver

iTrader: (3)

Castor is there to give you more camber when you turn the wheels, not just to stabilize the steering on center. Most people can max out camber and still keep 5-6 degrees of caster. The best way to go is to take out all caster, slam the camber, then put all the caster back in. How much camber did you gain by taking out the caster? How much dynamic camber did you loose?

Rhythmic

What is a recommended allignment for a daily driver that sees lots of spirited driving through curvy backroads, and potentially some track time?

RX8Maine

That is exactly what I do and I am very happy with the specs I posted above in this thread.

124Spider

Let's not get carried away with our data here, ok? Comparing times from different run groups at nationals is simply misleading, what with changing weather, temperature, and amount of rubber on the track. A stock ran in the rain one day at nationals last year; B Stock didn't. The previous year, when the older S2000 was still in B Stock, the National results for B stock looked like spec S2000. Given a choice between an S2000, optimally prepared for stock-class autocross, and an RX-8, optimally prepared for stock-class autocross, in a head-to-head race, no top driver would choose the RX-8.

LOL. Given equal, good drivers in stock cars, in the same conditions, I doubt there's a track in existence on which an RX-8 could keep up with an S2000. And I doubt there's a set of mods for the RX-8 which could make a fully-modded RX-8 competitive with a fully-modded S2000.

Gee, that's not exactly surprising, since CodingParadox is a significantly better autocrosser than I am. Ron Bauer in a stock-legal Miata would consistently beat CodingParadox in an RX-8; does that make the Miata a better car than the RX-8? (Heck, Rob Bauer in an old Chrysler minivan would beat me in my S2000; I certainly hope that doesn't mean that an old Chrysler minivan is a better performance car than the S2000.)

CodingParadox

I think the answer is just that S2000 drivers all suck. Look at the results from the NT. ;-)

ULLLOSE

iTrader: (1)

That is the dumbest thing I have seen today. The RX8 is no way near the S2K with equal drivers, that is why the S2K is in AS with the C4 and BoxsterS and the RX8 is in BS with the 350z.

You should have a clue what you are talking about before you quote results like that, AS and BS were in different heats and AS was in the rain the first day.
The dry day on the south course the quick AS S2k, which was an AP2 driven by Bob Klingler, was 58.082.
Quick time for BS in the dry on the south course was GH Sharpe with a 58.829.
Do some research before you post stuff like that.

124Spider

dsmdriver

iTrader: (3)

Thank you for all gently, calm-headedly telling me that the last year's classes were in rain/dry. I guess it was a totally stupid move of me to go to the SCCA's website, look up the times for the fastest drivers in the most competitive event last year and see that the fastest RX8 was faster than an S2000. Throwing in a "it's just one event" apparently was no consolation. I'll stop refering to AutoX events where I wasn't there from now on, since apparently that reduces my IQ by hundred or so.

I'll have to add "posting totally worthless results on their website" to things I currently dislike about the SCCA.

I will however challenge any average Joe to take a track lap in an RX8 and a track lap in an S2000. First one to spin looses

ULLLOSE

iTrader: (1)

If you are not smart enough to look at the times each day and notice that BS goes from almost 1 sec slower to 5+ seconds faster than you have issues that SCCA can not account for when posting results.

You just can not live with the truth can you. Got to use an "average Joe" that might not know how to drive to make the results work in your favor. Put the same driver, someone with skill, in both cars autox or road course the S2k will beat the RX8 every time there are no two ways about it. In both autox and road racing the two cars are in different classes, there is a reason for that, the S2k is faster.

dsmdriver

iTrader: (3)

It's cold in here. I'm sorry I' m so inferior to you. I'll never AutoX again, I promise. I don't want to get abused again if I'm slightly wrong, and I now see that I should sit in the corner and shut up until I win some national event or something.

The S2000's are known as a bit of a tricky car at the limit. I was only joking about that and how much more predictable the RX8 is. Even CodingParadox mentioned this earlier. As we all know, going faster in a car is all about feeling comfortable in the car. If you're scared of the car getting loose at all you'll never go 10/10ths. If you know it's basically recoverable, you'll be much more likely to drive close to the limit. A slower, predictable car will be faster in the hands of many drivers than a wild fast car. Yes, these aren't national class race car drivers, but few of us are.

But all of that is lost here, so just pretend I didn't say any of that.

All I was trying to get across in the beginning is that the RX8 is a plenty quick car, and it's not like the s2000 just annihlates the 8 no matter how good the 8 driver and how average the s2000 driver. They're close enough that the driver really mattters.

I'll be back in a few posts to make completely off base judgments about a person I've never met. It sounds like fun.

CodingParadox

Lol. This might be the silliest argument ever.

ULLLOSE

iTrader: (1)

Don't cry. You chose to post about an event you were not at and did not bother to look at the results close enough to notice the times were way off. You chose to use a set of results that helped you make your point not counting on the fact that someone would know more than you and point out your mistake. You can try to bend it anyway that makes you feel better about yourself, but bottom line with equal drivers and equal car prep the S2k is a faster car. It is great you have pride of ownership and think your RX8 is the best but the fact is the two cars are not even in the same segment.

ULLLOSE

iTrader: (1)

It does not work that way. As soon as you put any caster back in you will lose -camber. On the RX8 you will gain about -.1 camber for every degree of caster you give up.

dsmdriver

iTrader: (3)

I've never heard of anyone running zero caster on the 8. Is this an alignment that is popular? When I did my alignment a while ago I remember finding multiple people talking about running 5-6 degrees of caster. Did I miss something?

Is the dynamic camber lost worth it for the static camber gained?

124Spider

Calm down, please!

Your mistake, like so many here, was to express the opinion that the RX-8 is faster than the S2000, including and especially with the absolute assertion For reasons that I cannot begin to fathom, this sort of nonsense gets posted in RX8Club with some frequency, and the reaction you got was as much because that nonsense comes up so much here as because it was pure nonsense. The fact that you attempted to bolster the general assertion that the RX-8 is faster than the S2000 by point erroneously to last year's autocross nationals only made matters worse.

A better reaction, rather than would have been "Oops, my bad; thanks for setting me straight" All the negative responses would have stopped right there.

ULLLOSE

iTrader: (1)

If you move the caster adjuster to the minimum adjustment point you will still have 4+ degrees VS 6+ at max setting, the suspension has it built in you can never run zero, 4 is more than enough. If you go anything above the minimum setting you will lose -camber.

It is worth it for sure, static -camber is way more important when you can only get -1 to -1.5 out of a stock car, you will never move the wheel enough to make the caster work for you.