bobby ep

Question about the engine replacement warranty extension:

My sister's 2004 RX8 w/ 78,000 started running poorly, with low power, idle vibration, stalling, bad gas mileage, etc.

So, I got on this site, and read for a bit, and was able to tell her about the warranty extension from what I read. (Thanks to all here for that.)

I tried the clean-out procedure with Seafoam through the vacuum ports. Marginal improvement.

Sent her to the dealer. Dealer says her engine needs to be replaced. (Yay!).

Dealer gives her a list of other parts she is going to be required to purchase, which comes to $1200.00+ !

(Spark plugs, wires, coils, motor mounts, a reflash, a tranny cooling line, . . .)

So, my question is this: Is this a rip-off used by the dealers to cut down on the number of replacement engines?

It strikes me like saying "we'll give you a new engine for FREE! - but you need to fill out this form, and the blank form costs $1200.00".

If they actually refuse to replace her engine without getting the $1200 from her, I'm tempted to tell them to simply get her an engine in a crate, and we'll handle the rest.

In any event, thanks in advance for whatever guidance you can give me here.

elysium19

iTrader: (1)

the vacuum and compression checks alone indicate that the engine (engine internals) need replacing.

tell them just to replace the engine. if they insist, be sure to get them to state in writing why those parts are necessary for a replacement, because your automotive lawyer will need an explicit statement about those forced and unnecessary purchases. they'll get the idea...

PS - it's very possibel that replacing some of those parts would be a good idea, but that's completely separate from the engine core. Have them replace the engine, then you all can discuss the other parts as they would with any other customer.

DocBeech

iTrader: (1)

I would personally replace the coils, plugs, wires, flywheel, clutch, change to steel braided oil cooler lines, air filter and the upgraded radiator hoses at a minimum. They should be reflashing you for free though.

Lord ET

iTrader: (1)

You can get all of those parts for MUCH less than $1200 if they are required, from vendors on this site. Replace them yourself, there are DIY's here too, then take it back and say you've replaced all parts and you're ready for your free engine.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

An engine replacement under PowerTrain warranty (60k) would be completely free. However, when Mazda extended the engine core warranty, they only extended the CORE engine itself. There are alot of other things that need replacing when an engine is replaced, like hoses, gaskets, seals, fluids, etc..., but are not actually part of the engine core itself. It may seem odd, but there are things like a few months ago a dealer replaced an engine under warranty and re-used the old fuel line, which weakens considerably when removed and re-attached, and it popped off during the shakedown drive, ignited a massive engine fire, nearly killed the tech, and burnt the 8 to the ground. Certain stuff HAS to be replaced, but isn't part of the engine.

Basically Mazda is picking up part of the tab voluntarily, not trying to screw you over.

In general.

However, Plugs, wires, and coils, are a total of $280 if you buy them yourself from forum vendors here and about an hours of work with simple tools to replace them all. Even if the dealer insists on being the ones to replace them, don't pay their inflated prices for the parts themselves.

The reflash should be for free.


Typically however, an engine replacement outside of the powertrain warranty but within the extended core warranty is about $500 when you add up the stuff you have to pay the dealer for. So this particular dealer is trying to rip you off for about $400-500, on top of the $280 in parts you can handle yourself easily and the ~$500 that is unavoidable during engine replacement.

DocBeech

iTrader: (1)

Also I would take photos of the parts you buy. And I would make sure to examine the new engine for the new parts. Dealers make mistakes. Also aside from that a guy named Dale that my dad used to work for got fired because he was taking the new parts and selling them while putting old parts on engine replacements.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

More than likely said tech failed to secure the fuel line connection properly

Razz1

You need those parts.

Take an automotive class.

Education is a wonderful thing.

bobby ep

I had my sister tell the service tech that we'd worry about replacing the parts he listed later, and he should just go ahead and get the engine ordered. His reaction was a bit worrisome until she mentioned to him that I'm a lawyer. (I haven't handled a car case in years - like, ten or fifteen or more - but she didn't mention that part to him. )

So, the engine's on its way, and he says that "all normal parts needed to install and hook up the engine" are covered, so she should have no charges. Both her and her husband have been laid off now, so the $1200 cover charge was going to mean "no new engine for you" if it stood.

And, yeah, I'll likely replace those parts after she gets the car back, and charge her either in beers or chocolate chip cookies. I searched through the site here, and you've got some great DIY posts on most everything - so, thanks again for all of that.

And, yeah, education IS a great thing! I bet I'm the only Certified Hydraulic Technician II/Certified Honda (MC) Tech/Econ & Geology BA/Mech Eng BS/JD you've spoken to all day!



Thanks again, everybody.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

If you post where you are, or ask for another pair (or more) of hands from local members, you will likely get some help with the parts. We love to work on 8s so it doesn't take much of an excuse. Beer is a common currency


Glad it's working out for her.

elysium19

iTrader: (1)

See below.


After reconsidering this, yes, those parts are all important. I havnt heard anythin conclusive on the fuel line issue. Spark plugs, sure, replace those, a low-compression engine might junk them up a lot. Plugs should NOT have to be replaced unless obviously they are old.

But honestly this is a perfect example. The fact that this dealer took back their "demands" pretty readily, as have other examples, indicates pretty strongly that this is not mazda policy, but rather just a dealership trying to make a buck. Can't blame them, but don't you be the one to be fooled.

I'll put it this way: if you're savvy enough to know what needs to be replaced and what doesn't, tell them that and just make sure the necessary things get done, either by them or by you. If you're not savvy enough to make that call, then be safe and let the dealer do everything they claim is necessary. It might be pricey or it might be free, but you're in no position to make uneducated arguments about it. In the meantime, educate yourselves so you can take the former position...

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Nice 4.5 month bump.

I'm sure the "meantime" has passed by already.

terch1

iTrader: (2)

When I got mine replaced under warranty I replaced the motor mounts and plugs. The coils wire and plugs were also replace a couple months prior to getting the new engine. My bill came to around $500 when the engine was replaced. Keep in mind I had spent a little under this a couple months prior when I had the coils, wires, and plugs replaced. That being said it sounds right to me. You can always choose to do the work yourself and then drop the car off to have the engine replaced under warranty. This would indeed save a couple bucks. I typically do all my own work but didn't have the time when I was having problems with my 8.

terch1

iTrader: (2)

Didn't notice the resurrection. I hate that ****!

viprez586

iTrader: (5)

Tell them you want nothing, you'll probably get plugs and coils for free...since they're not going to give it back to you misfiring and running like crap.

Reminds me of an IS250 engine I did. Insurance company wanted me to put in a used engine. So I did - and upon start up it was misfiring like crazy. Scanned the car and had misfire codes. After explaining to the insurance company I need new plugs and a coil they agreed. Granted the insurance company approved it - in a warranty situation I would have been telling my boss I need plugs and a coil.

Yep, got a cool 70 hrs worth of labor out of that insurance company @ 200% efficiency.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

You realize that you are giving advice to someone to ask for something, when it's been 4.5 months since they had this problem? It's solved by now, one way or another.



Check the dates people

viprez586

iTrader: (5)

Didn't mean to get you all butt hurt.