Won't Start - is it flooded??
06-09-2013, 02:57 PM
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Won't Start - is it flooded??
I have been reading some posts about flooding as reasons my car won't start, but none of the tricks are working. Is it flooded or do I have a bigger issue?
2008 RX8 with no prior starting problems... Last time it was driven was a wk ago Fri. I only drive it once a wk while my husband is deployed but this wk it wouldn't start! Help me fix it before he gets home!!
Thanks!
2008 RX8 with no prior starting problems... Last time it was driven was a wk ago Fri. I only drive it once a wk while my husband is deployed but this wk it wouldn't start! Help me fix it before he gets home!!
Thanks!
06-09-2013, 04:46 PM
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I have half a tank. When I turn the key, it makes a steady "rerrr" sound but it never turns over. I tried the different ideas of holding down the gas pedal down while starting it and still nothing. Never kicks over. ??
06-09-2013, 05:01 PM
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Just to clarify, when you say it never turns over, do you mean the engine doesn't rotate, or doesn't fire up and run ? If it doesn't rotate, EDZRIDE is on the money. Before you charge the battery, remove the negative cable from the battery. It could also be just bad contacts on the battery cables.Not to sound condescending or sexist, can you wrench on the the car yourself ?
06-09-2013, 05:06 PM
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A brand new battery that is drained of power is going to work just as well as an old battery that is drained of power.
Disconnect both cables, not just negative, if you are going to charge it.
Just to clarify, when you say it never turns over, do you mean the engine doesn't rotate, or doesn't fire up and run ? If it doesn't rotate, EDZRIDE is on the money. Before you charge the battery, remove the negative cable from the battery. It could also be just bad contacts on the battery cables.Not to sound condescending or sexist, can you wrench on the the car yourself ?
06-09-2013, 06:58 PM
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It's not the battery. Cleaned the terminals and hooked up a charger. It read a full charge already. Had my neighbor look at it and he said it was turning over, but it's not just catching. What now?? 
06-09-2013, 07:23 PM
#10
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Sounds like it could be a flood.
There is a de-flood procedure in the owner's manual so you try that... but if you have been cranking it repeatedly trying to start it it probably requires a more extensive de-flood.
Are you capable of removing spark plugs, removing relays, things of that nature?
There is a de-flood procedure in the owner's manual so you try that... but if you have been cranking it repeatedly trying to start it it probably requires a more extensive de-flood.
Are you capable of removing spark plugs, removing relays, things of that nature?
06-09-2013, 08:00 PM
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I have followed the instructions in the manual, but it's been hours since I tried. Still won't start.
I could try to remove those things... Can you assist?? I only have the owner's manual and there's nothing in there to help me with those parts.
I could try to remove those things... Can you assist?? I only have the owner's manual and there's nothing in there to help me with those parts.
06-09-2013, 09:22 PM
#12
You gonna eat that?
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Hi, I would like to make a suggestion, cause I think
this could be a case where you could make things a lot worse if you don't know what to do.
I don't know if you would be open to giving your general location, maybe a member is in your area and would be willing to help.
Just a thought.
this could be a case where you could make things a lot worse if you don't know what to do.
I don't know if you would be open to giving your general location, maybe a member is in your area and would be willing to help.
Just a thought.
06-09-2013, 09:53 PM
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BigCajun, I'm not above calling Mazda for help, but I'm not completely helpless out here. I can Google most things and follow directions well - spent 17 yrs in Maintenance in the AF. Just trying to get some help here first.
So far, nothing is helping.
Just trying to get some help here first.So far, nothing is helping.
06-10-2013, 03:48 AM
#14
You gonna eat that?
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I was not sure you were confident with your ability.
The one time I flooded, I already had a bad cat and misfires. I had a new battery, but I hooked up a charger to it anyway, just to be sure I didn'r run it down.
I tried the manual's de-flood process, didn't work.
I don't know how to post links, but I searched rx8 de-flood, and found the process where the fuel pump fuse is removed, floor it, turn it over for 15 seconds or so about 10 times, (maybe excessive) put the fuse in & and it fired right up.
After I replaced my cat with a midpipe and all my ignition parts, I no longer have to let it warm up to move it, or worry about short trips.
Good luck & sorry about doubting your abilities.
06-10-2013, 05:45 AM
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I read that about the fuse last night too. I'll try that today.
It's not that I'm not confident in my abilities, I just don't what to do! Haha I appreciate the help and I'll let you know how it goes.
It's not that I'm not confident in my abilities, I just don't what to do! Haha
I appreciate the help and I'll let you know how it goes.
06-10-2013, 10:43 AM
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A really bad flood may mean that you need to repeat the deflood multiple times. My first flood with the 8 was bad enough that i had to repeat the fuse-pull method 6-7 times before the engine started coughing to life.
Highly recommend making sure you have enough juice for the starter on hand, normally another car hooked up via jumper cables.
I posted these in another thread that is active at the moment of a guy that can't start his either. They may be of some help: (note that some comments are directed at him, not you)
Highly recommend making sure you have enough juice for the starter on hand, normally another car hooked up via jumper cables.
I posted these in another thread that is active at the moment of a guy that can't start his either. They may be of some help: (note that some comments are directed at him, not you)
It sounds like you are only taking pieces of solutions and applying those pieces.
How about going back to the simple things...
You need compression, air, fuel, and spark.
You get compression from the engine rotation at a sufficient speed. You need sufficient battery power to drive the starter, and a sufficiently healthy starter so the electrical juice isn't wasted. You can still have insufficient compression if the starter and battery are healthy by having misplaced seals, loss of oil film, worn seals, shattered/destroyed seals
Air is usually not a problem, as it's very difficult to block the air flow in.
Fuel. It can be excessive or insufficient. Excessive fuel is through leaky injectors or from attempting to start without everything in top condition (flooding). Insufficient fuel can be due to an electrical problem with the injectors, a failing fuel pump, or a fouled/disconnected/dead e-shaft sensor. You can also have contaminated fuel through water in the fuel system, coolant leaking from a coolant seal failure, or excessive oil through failing oil control rings.
Spark. It has to happen, and it has to happen at the right time. This means that the e-shaft sensor has to be reporting to the ECU so the ECU knows when to fire the coils, and your entire ignition system has to be healthy. This means sufficiently healthy coils (~30k mile life average), sufficiently healthy wires (30k-40k), sufficiently healthy plugs (10k-30k), electrical grounding on the engine block to return the current.
So, what do you know you have?
How about going back to the simple things...
You need compression, air, fuel, and spark.
You get compression from the engine rotation at a sufficient speed. You need sufficient battery power to drive the starter, and a sufficiently healthy starter so the electrical juice isn't wasted. You can still have insufficient compression if the starter and battery are healthy by having misplaced seals, loss of oil film, worn seals, shattered/destroyed seals
Air is usually not a problem, as it's very difficult to block the air flow in.
Fuel. It can be excessive or insufficient. Excessive fuel is through leaky injectors or from attempting to start without everything in top condition (flooding). Insufficient fuel can be due to an electrical problem with the injectors, a failing fuel pump, or a fouled/disconnected/dead e-shaft sensor. You can also have contaminated fuel through water in the fuel system, coolant leaking from a coolant seal failure, or excessive oil through failing oil control rings.
Spark. It has to happen, and it has to happen at the right time. This means that the e-shaft sensor has to be reporting to the ECU so the ECU knows when to fire the coils, and your entire ignition system has to be healthy. This means sufficiently healthy coils (~30k mile life average), sufficiently healthy wires (30k-40k), sufficiently healthy plugs (10k-30k), electrical grounding on the engine block to return the current.
So, what do you know you have?
It sounds like you mixed 2 solutions again.
Holding the gas pedal to the floor does the same thing as pulling fuel pump fuse. Both of them shut off the fuel flow while cranking.
You either
A) pull the fuse and crank in 10 second intervals to empty the engine of fuel, then put the fuse back and attempt to start like normal
or
B) Hold the gas pedal to the floor while cranking in 10 second intervals to empty the engine of fuel, then let off and attempt to start like normal.
If you get a coughing start but it won't stay alive and dies immediately, then repeat the steps until it does fire fine.
It is highly recommended that you have jumper cables connected to another running car as the cranking will drain your battery quite fast. It is easily possible to run the battery low enough that your low battery charge in and of itself causes the engine to flood again as you try to start.
Now, you said " the car crank at one point for like 30 seconds"... do you mean that it was running for 30 seconds? Or that you cranked it for 30 seconds? If you cranked it for 30 seconds, you are killing your starter quite fast, I'd recommend getting a new one soon, if not now. This could be contributing to your problem. 10 seconds at a time, no more.
If you got it to run for 30 seconds and then it died, then by definition it did not flood when it died. There is something else more major going on. Add to the prior list:
- vacuum leak
- cat clogged
- compression loss
- maf fouled
- front O2 dying
These are the reasons for power loss that are not involved in the initial starting sequence. Yes, this is power loss, to the point of shutting off.
Start checking everything. Cat clogged is really viable, as many of the reasons for flooding an engine also have been damaging the cat for some time, plus the fuel from the flood. Cats aren't designed to deal with that.
Holding the gas pedal to the floor does the same thing as pulling fuel pump fuse. Both of them shut off the fuel flow while cranking.
You either
A) pull the fuse and crank in 10 second intervals to empty the engine of fuel, then put the fuse back and attempt to start like normal
or
B) Hold the gas pedal to the floor while cranking in 10 second intervals to empty the engine of fuel, then let off and attempt to start like normal.
If you get a coughing start but it won't stay alive and dies immediately, then repeat the steps until it does fire fine.
It is highly recommended that you have jumper cables connected to another running car as the cranking will drain your battery quite fast. It is easily possible to run the battery low enough that your low battery charge in and of itself causes the engine to flood again as you try to start.
Now, you said " the car crank at one point for like 30 seconds"... do you mean that it was running for 30 seconds? Or that you cranked it for 30 seconds? If you cranked it for 30 seconds, you are killing your starter quite fast, I'd recommend getting a new one soon, if not now. This could be contributing to your problem. 10 seconds at a time, no more.
If you got it to run for 30 seconds and then it died, then by definition it did not flood when it died. There is something else more major going on. Add to the prior list:
- vacuum leak
- cat clogged
- compression loss
- maf fouled
- front O2 dying
These are the reasons for power loss that are not involved in the initial starting sequence. Yes, this is power loss, to the point of shutting off.
Start checking everything. Cat clogged is really viable, as many of the reasons for flooding an engine also have been damaging the cat for some time, plus the fuel from the flood. Cats aren't designed to deal with that.
06-10-2013, 01:12 PM
#17
You gonna eat that?
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Thanks RIWWP, I was going by memory and giving conflicting advice about flooring it with the fuse pulled.
I did both methods & got it jumbled up a bit.
Wasn't too sharp this morning.
I did both methods & got it jumbled up a bit.
Wasn't too sharp this morning.
06-10-2013, 05:18 PM
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Thanks, RIWWP. I did see those posts in other threads and that's why I didn't try it yesterday. Thought the pedal was the same thing, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to try it. As it is, I just got home and am about to try the deflooding thing again. I never tried it more than 2 or 3 times in the same sitting because I am worried about damaging the starter. Each time I only crank it about 8-10 sec.
I have my other car next to it ready to charge the battery if I need to, so do I need to hook it up and try this or just have it ready in case I need it?
I have my other car next to it ready to charge the battery if I need to, so do I need to hook it up and try this or just have it ready in case I need it?
06-10-2013, 06:43 PM
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Thanks, RIWWP. I did see those posts in other threads and that's why I didn't try it yesterday. Thought the pedal was the same thing, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to try it. As it is, I just got home and am about to try the deflooding thing again. I never tried it more than 2 or 3 times in the same sitting because I am worried about damaging the starter. Each time I only crank it about 8-10 sec.
I have my other car next to it ready to charge the battery if I need to, so do I need to hook it up and try this or just have it ready in case I need it?
I have my other car next to it ready to charge the battery if I need to, so do I need to hook it up and try this or just have it ready in case I need it?
Yes, 8-10 seconds is right. Don't go over 10 seconds and let it cool off 10+ seconds between each attempt. Yeah, it's not stellar on the starter, but as long as you keep to those boundaries or better, you won't be appreciably abusing it.
06-11-2013, 06:15 PM
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About to try my 7th attempt and getting discouraged! It does start to cough and try to start right before I hit around 8 seconds on the crank w/o the gas pedal pressed. I'll give it one last try and rest for a bit.
And yes, it's hooked up to my Juke to keep the battery charged.
And yes, it's hooked up to my Juke to keep the battery charged.
06-11-2013, 06:21 PM
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This indicates that whatever the cause of the flood still exists, so it just keeps re-flooding. Remember, flooding is a symptom of an existing problem, and if the problem isn't fixed then it will repeat.
I had assumed that it was your low/dead battery, but perhaps it is something else?
Ignition failure is the most common reason. How old (time and mileage) are your coils, plugs, and wires?
I had assumed that it was your low/dead battery, but perhaps it is something else?
Ignition failure is the most common reason. How old (time and mileage) are your coils, plugs, and wires?
06-11-2013, 06:29 PM
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Yup! Gratz
Make sure it gets warm enough, then go out for a fun drive, make sure to get in several full throttle acceleration pulls (in at least 2nd gear), all the way to redline.
Make sure it gets warm enough, then go out for a fun drive, make sure to get in several full throttle acceleration pulls (in at least 2nd gear), all the way to redline.
06-11-2013, 06:32 PM
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Roger that!! :D
Thanks, everyone, for your help!!!! I used this forum before I bought this car as a surprise for my husband, and you all steered me right. I knew you'd come thru again!!
Happy happy joy joy!!
Thanks, everyone, for your help!!!! I used this forum before I bought this car as a surprise for my husband, and you all steered me right. I knew you'd come thru again!!
Happy happy joy joy!!