Won't Start - is it flooded??
 

I have been reading some posts about flooding as reasons my car won't start, but none of the tricks are working. Is it flooded or do I have a bigger issue?

2008 RX8 with no prior starting problems... Last time it was driven was a wk ago Fri. I only drive it once a wk while my husband is deployed but this wk it wouldn't start! Help me fix it before he gets home!! :)

Thanks!

You do have gas in the tank ? :) The motor turns over okay but doesn't start, or there is nothing when you turn the key to start ?

I have half a tank. When I turn the key, it makes a steady "rerrr" sound but it never turns over. I tried the different ideas of holding down the gas pedal down while starting it and still nothing. Never kicks over. ??

Sounds like a dead battery, charge it up!

The battery is only a couple of months old....

Just to clarify, when you say it never turns over, do you mean the engine doesn't rotate, or doesn't fire up and run ? If it doesn't rotate, EDZRIDE is on the money. Before you charge the battery, remove the negative cable from the battery. It could also be just bad contacts on the battery cables.Not to sound condescending or sexist, can you wrench on the the car yourself ?

A brand new battery that is drained of power is going to work just as well as an old battery that is drained of power.

Disconnect both cables, not just negative, if you are going to charge it.

Fair question, but I'm not totally helpless... Just not too keen on the Rotary engine. I'll try to jump it with my Juke. Thanks.

It's not the battery. Cleaned the terminals and hooked up a charger. It read a full charge already. Had my neighbor look at it and he said it was turning over, but it's not just catching. What now?? :(

Sounds like it could be a flood.
There is a de-flood procedure in the owner's manual so you try that... but if you have been cranking it repeatedly trying to start it it probably requires a more extensive de-flood.

Are you capable of removing spark plugs, removing relays, things of that nature?

I have followed the instructions in the manual, but it's been hours since I tried. Still won't start. :(
I could try to remove those things... Can you assist?? I only have the owner's manual and there's nothing in there to help me with those parts.

Hi, I would like to make a suggestion, cause I think
this could be a case where you could make things a lot worse if you don't know what to do.

I don't know if you would be open to giving your general location, maybe a member is in your area and would be willing to help.
Just a thought.

BigCajun, I'm not above calling Mazda for help, but I'm not completely helpless out here. I can Google most things and follow directions well - spent 17 yrs in Maintenance in the AF. :) Just trying to get some help here first.

So far, nothing is helping.

OK, good to know. Thanks for straightening me out.:)

I was not sure you were confident with your ability.

The one time I flooded, I already had a bad cat and misfires. I had a new battery, but I hooked up a charger to it anyway, just to be sure I didn'r run it down.
I tried the manual's de-flood process, didn't work.
I don't know how to post links, but I searched rx8 de-flood, and found the process where the fuel pump fuse is removed, floor it, turn it over for 15 seconds or so about 10 times, (maybe excessive) put the fuse in & and it fired right up.
After I replaced my cat with a midpipe and all my ignition parts, I no longer have to let it warm up to move it, or worry about short trips.
Good luck & sorry about doubting your abilities.

I read that about the fuse last night too. I'll try that today.

It's not that I'm not confident in my abilities, I just don't what to do! Haha :) I appreciate the help and I'll let you know how it goes.

A really bad flood may mean that you need to repeat the deflood multiple times. My first flood with the 8 was bad enough that i had to repeat the fuse-pull method 6-7 times before the engine started coughing to life.

Highly recommend making sure you have enough juice for the starter on hand, normally another car hooked up via jumper cables.

I posted these in another thread that is active at the moment of a guy that can't start his either. They may be of some help: (note that some comments are directed at him, not you)

Thanks RIWWP, I was going by memory and giving conflicting advice about flooring it with the fuse pulled.
I did both methods & got it jumbled up a bit.

Wasn't too sharp this morning.:)

Thanks, RIWWP. I did see those posts in other threads and that's why I didn't try it yesterday. Thought the pedal was the same thing, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to try it. As it is, I just got home and am about to try the deflooding thing again. I never tried it more than 2 or 3 times in the same sitting because I am worried about damaging the starter. Each time I only crank it about 8-10 sec.

I have my other car next to it ready to charge the battery if I need to, so do I need to hook it up and try this or just have it ready in case I need it?

Could you by any chance get a video up?

Maybe some of the more experienced people with them can narrow it down a little better!

Hook it up ahead of time and have it charging. You don't want to risk getting the flood clear, only to have too weak of a battery to actually start it and it floods all over again.

Yes, 8-10 seconds is right. Don't go over 10 seconds and let it cool off 10+ seconds between each attempt. Yeah, it's not stellar on the starter, but as long as you keep to those boundaries or better, you won't be appreciably abusing it.

About to try my 7th attempt and getting discouraged! It does start to cough and try to start right before I hit around 8 seconds on the crank w/o the gas pedal pressed. I'll give it one last try and rest for a bit.

And yes, it's hooked up to my Juke to keep the battery charged.

This indicates that whatever the cause of the flood still exists, so it just keeps re-flooding. Remember, flooding is a symptom of an existing problem, and if the problem isn't fixed then it will repeat.

I had assumed that it was your low/dead battery, but perhaps it is something else?

Ignition failure is the most common reason. How old (time and mileage) are your coils, plugs, and wires?

I got it!! I guess 8 really is enough. :)

So it's running and has been for about 5 min. Can I take it for a spin? Rev it up??

Yup! Gratz :)

Make sure it gets warm enough, then go out for a fun drive, make sure to get in several full throttle acceleration pulls (in at least 2nd gear), all the way to redline.

Roger that!! :D

Thanks, everyone, for your help!!!! I used this forum before I bought this car as a surprise for my husband, and you all steered me right. I knew you'd come thru again!!

Happy happy joy joy!!

Good to hear!
Don't forget RIWWP's advice. Try to find the root cause of why it flooded. You want it running good when your husband comes home.:)

I know what I did... after reading everyone's inputs and reviewing the forum, I did it. Last wknd my dad visited and I moved my cars back so he could park his Harley in the garage... I really didn't think about it!! :( So it was me. I started it, backed 3 ft and killed it. I know! I know!!! Well, I know NOW... I told my husband and he said it wouldn't do that if I drove it more often, so yay!! Permission to drive it more often is good to me! :)

Thanks again for your help!!

Keep in mind that if everything is healthy, you can start it, move it 3 feet, and shut it off and it won't flood.

Flooding is a symptom. Something is failing that allowed you do flood by shutting it off cold. Expect to see further symptoms of that in the near future.

Hi Radbunny, glad you got it running.
However, there is still a chance it could happen again.
You may want to consider a tuneup (coils, plugs, wires).
Might want to take it to a parts store that offers free OBD scans to check for stored codes.

Like RIWWP said, 8's don't flood unless there is an underlying problem.
In my case, I had misfires that killed my cat.
Once I fixed those problems, I no longer have a problem moving it or have to let it warm up.

I'm not trying to be a buzzkill, it's something you may want to think about.
Preventive maintenance can save lots of money and headaches down the road.

Nice talking to you.
Thanks to you & your husband for your service.
Good luck & have fun.
Edit* ha! RIWWP responded while I was one finger typing! :)

Thanks, guys! I plan to take it to Mazda for a checkup but we just had the thing totally checked out in Feb. Doesn't seem that long ago and we never had any issues before this. :( I've been driving it since I got it running and it's a little "chuggy" - if that makes any sense... It idles a bit choppy. I only put the high-grade gas in it, and I keep the oil level on the money. I do have one of those devices I can hook up to read the computer codes. I'll ck that and call Mazda.

Thanks!! :)

I'd honestly re-think that.

The dealers are moderately useless for diagnosing ahead of time. For example, the official Mazda coil test will show a coil as working fine when it's actually causing severe misfires. Even if they are willing to do tests, they are going to want you to have an actual problem that they recognize when you bring it to them. Mazda doesn't officially recognize that coils are regularly replaced maintenance items.

The checkups that dealers do really do not address a single point of what is critical for a rotary. The only test that a dealer can perform that I recommend continually to people is a compression test, and that's because they have the proper tool. Very few people outside of dealers have them.

It would be far more beneficial to find a knowledgeable local owner (Arkansas?) to check over everything that is actually important.

Offhand, I'd say you have ignition failure, since it's common and would produce all 3 symptoms (flooding, unstable power delivery, unstable idle). Other items can as well, but chances are it's ignition since it needs replacing every 30,000 miles or so. Flooding can also kill what is left of the plugs. Coils, plugs, and wires. $190ish if you buy the parts yourself and maybe an hour of work if you don't know what you are doing. Many of us can swap everything in less than 20 minutes. Dealers will charge you upwards of $600-$800 for the parts, and $400-$800 in labor.

so im having the same problem as of yesterday with it cranking/reeving but the engine wont start and i did try the procedure in the manual multiple times and still got the same result and had others look at it and got a few different opinions, also i want to mention right b4 that happened i was driving and the car was fine i only turned a corner at about 30-35 nothing major and then i tried to accelerate to get up to speed and the tachometer went up like it normally would as if i was accelerating but the car didnt go and i tried a couple times and listened to the engine and it stil revved while i was attempting to accelerate buh i still didnt go nowhere so i let the car cruise and let off the gas pedal and the tachometer went to 0 rpm and it shut off. if i can get ideas on what it could possibly be that would be great. after work today i have a couple people who are going to take a look at it and help me out.

my car is a 2005 red rx8 automatic with 91k i have everything as it came which basically is stock and ive been up to date with maintenance with changing the oil every 3k ive gotten the transmission flushed in january also the rear differential fuel flushed during the summer of this year and if im missing anything just let me know

You mention maintenance items, but you don't include coils, plugs, and wires. How old are they?


If you flood due to failed ignition or failed compression, deflooding won't magically fix the ignition, and it's just going to re-flood when you try to start it

i cant say how old they bc i dont know what the previous owner has done but i had it since janaury and i got the car the day it was sold to the dealership this year and havent changed anything on the car yet except the brake pads...but i know later after work a friend is going to help me check everything and see what needs to replaced

what i have been told so far from someone who took a look at my car last night was it could possibly be the fuel injector and the sensor is broken and keeps feeding the motor fuel when we start the car and it may already have enough in it....another person who has a rx8 and is going to look at it after we get off said it could be the plugs coils or wires which we will confirm later....another friend who has an 8 i asked his opinion and said it could possibly be a blown seal and i would need it rebuilt

The ignition recommendation and the engine seal recommendation are both entirely viable. The fuel injectors and "sensor" recommendation is moderately absurd. Of course the fuel injectors are supposed to feed fuel to the engine. The problem is that the fuel isn't being ignited (hence the definition of the term "flood") The "sensor" that determines when to inject fuel is the same sensor that determines when to fire the coils (to create a spark at the plugs).

Since you have neglected the maintenance of your 8, and have no idea if the prior owner neglected it either, you might want to seriously go through this list:

https://www.rx8club.com/new-member-f...t-here-202454/
I am buying it! What should I address first?:
Generally, the more history on these items you can get from the prior owner, the better. These are all RX-8 specific. They are in addition to typical items like brakes and tires. Every item on this list is on it because it either fails regularly OR a failure of the point will result in significant cascading damage and costly repairs.

Car mileage over 30,000:
- Replace Ignition coils
- Replace Plug wires
- Replace Spark plugs
- Clean MAF (mass air flow sensor)
- Clean ESS (e-shaft sensor)
- Reset ESS profile
- Clean power steering connections
- Clean battery terminals and clamps
- Replace transmission fluid
- Replace coolant (Mazda FL-22 is highly recommended)
- Replace air filter
- Replace brake fluid (fluid in the brake lines AND the clutch line)
~$300 USD in parts if you shop smartly.


Car mileage over 60,000:
...all above, plus...
- Clean all chassis electrical grounding points
- Replace accessory belts
- Clean OMP lines
- Replace rear differential fluid
- Replace thermostat
- Clean / Straighten AC condenser fins
- Clean / Straighten oil cooler fins
- Inspect catalytic converter
- Clean / Inspect intake valving
- Consider / inspect all points in 90,000+ as well, many items fail early
~$130 USD in parts if you shop smartly.

Car mileage over 90,000:
...all above plus...
- Replace coolant bottle
- Replace radiator hoses
- Replace radiator
- Replace front O2 sensor
- Replace motor mounts
- Inspect clutch pedal assembly for flex / weld breaks
~$900 USD in parts if you shop smartly.

Obviously if you get information about any of these items already addressed, it will help to reduce the list / cost. Get as much certainty as you can though! All cooling related items can cost you your engine! Even as soon as the same day you take the 8 home with you. It has happened more than once. The rest can be just as critical in how much it can cost you.

Note: This isn't a dealer's maintenance list that is filled with questionable fluff. Every single one of these items is something that typically fails in that mileage range, and for each item, if it fails it will either A) strand you, or B) cause significant and costly additional damage.

i will defiantley get on that asap which my best bet will be in janurary bc im waiting for taxes so i can go all out on my car but i will also find out what needs to be done now and get it done now also ill post an update this weekend on what the problem was

So as you mentioned about the plugs wires and coils im going to need to replace them and see if that solves the problem and we also found out the trailing spark plug i believe thats what it is, was unplug that leads to the rear rotor and there is corrosion on it also and im sure that was from the previous owner and I'll be sure to do a lot better job with keeping my car in great running condition

That would do it. I think only the trailing plugs fire while cranking (though I might have that backwards) which would mean you are trying to start the engine on the front rotor alone (which is almost certainly going to be unsuccessful)

So we just finished the time up with the coils wires and plugs and it won't start....you can hear the engine rev as if its trying to crank and we cant figure it out...would it be the starter? Or can anyone suggest may be the problem? We charged the battery and its still hooked up now to charge

Hey guys, I didn't want to piss anyone off by starting a new thread, and I see this one has been happily resolved, and the root issue is the same.

Let me start by saying I'm a tech myself, love my rx8 dearly, and have had to deflood it before (2 occasions) so I'm no stranger to the crank no start flooding.

Scenario: my dad moved my cAr, parked it, and shut her down. By the way it's an 06 auto. Anyways, so two days later I went to fire her up, blam, crank no start. Awesome, flooded! Went through the deflooding procedure and still won't start. Thought ah what the hell, tried to deflood this time by following the tsb instead of the other way stepped out here in the forum. Still no start. I recently had a no start condition caused by my coils. So I pulled all four coils and ohmed them out following schematics here in the forums. All seemed ok but I through some coils at it. Still nothing. So. Pulled the plugs dried them off from the cranking, went through the deflooding again. I'm obviously getting fuel because they're wet again. Still won't start, so now I'm getting worried I have no compression (115k miles on the engine). So then I remembered plug wires can also causes no starts if they're open or the resistance is too high. So this leads me to my biggest question, is what is the general window for resistance readings on stock plug wires? I ohmed both leading and trailing wires for the 2nd rotor and got 748 ohms for the lead and 1565 ohms for the trail. Now I don't know if all 4 are supposed to be identical despite leading or trailing wires. I would think the plug itself would determine the separation between leading and trailing and not the wire, unless the dif resistance in the wires is what creates the spark difference between the lead and trail plugs. (I know the lead and trail plugs are different for spark pattern, etc). Are my readings out of spec and the plug wires could in fact be my problem? Or do I need to have her towed and have the dreaded compression test performed?

Again, thank you for any help In advance. I do apologize if my posting here is out of order or not in accordance to rules. I did a lot if research and a lot of reading before I broke down and posted here.

1) The factory ohm test on the coils is completely worthless. It will only detect a coil that has completely failed. You can have flooding problems and misfires with coils that pass the ohm test.

2) The plug wires shouldn't have any significant ohm value at all, and the lower the resistance the better. 1565 ohms sounds like a pretty bad problem, even 748 seems way too high. Yes, they should all be roughly identical. Technically more for the longer wires, but the distance increase really shouldn't be enough to make a significant impact.
Edit: I found this on the web: "RF suppression wire is approximately 850 ohms per foot."
So you might have some degrading wires, but not as bad as I originally thought.

3) The ECU fires the coils individually, and on their own timing based on internal ECU timing tables. No coils, wire, or plug has it's own control over when it fires (unless something is broken and it refuses to fire at all)

4) You still need a compression test, but replace the wires and you might be able to get it started.

5) Coils plugs and wires are a "every 30,000 miles" maintenance item, doesn't sound like that has been followed.

Thank you for all the information. That def gives me a good direction to go. And yes the 30k ignition maint has not been followed. I got the car with 85k and now at 115 so I'm literally at the 30k mark. But I can confidently bet that they were not replaced anytime before I bought her. I will pick up worse tomorrow. I replaced plugs with my coils about 10k miles ago. I will post results. Again thank you bro

If you haven't yet, at your car's age and mileage, I'd expect your cooling system is probably weakening as well. If your engine tests fine, you will probably want to spend the ~$500 to preemptively replace all your cooling stuff to keep it from taking out your motor.

Check out the new owner's list for the full list of critical maintenance stuff.

So I got the new wires and immediately checked the resistance in the new compared to the old. 3 of four old were 750 ohms or less, with only one wire having 1568. The brand new wires are all approximately 1560 ohms. Installed the new wires and yet again, to my utter dismay, cranks but doesn't start. I guess on Monday I will call the hook and have them drop it off at the local Mazda for a compression test seeing I don't currently have the equipment to do so. There are no faults currently active either, so my problem is def leaning harder and harder on the ugly shoulder of a compressionless renesis. I may try to deflood it one more time with the new wires, but all that cranking can't be good on those apex seals. Time seems to be my number one enemy on figuring out this problem. Will post what I do/find next. Meanwhile, any other items you guys can think of that I may have missed feel free to throw them my way. I may be overlooking something severely simple, which is what I am hoping. ....well and I guess there's the broken down cat that could be potentially causing this also. At this point tho I just know I want a compression test done.