Week old RX-8 is dead :(
 

So, I have had the car for only a week. Everything was fine except I knew I needed new ignition system due to the car sucking at cranking over; that is fine, I get 4 new plugs from AutoZone and had ordered 4 new coils to be mailed since no AutoZone carried them.

This morning my dad had went ahead and went to throw in the spark plugs before I got up, without him knowing even how to do it. After he realized he had to jack up the car, he went and moved my car since it was blocking in his truck.

An hour or so later I get up to go to work, it doesn't start. 1) I am super pissed off.. 2) I don't have time to check if it's flooding and to fix it.

So I try cranking it two or three times, give up and take my mom's car to work. I get home today, try it again following every DIY out there for how to fix a flooded engine - doesn't help.

I then pull it into my drive way (well push) and we do the spark plugs - omg were they not disgusting. We then try to do another deflooding - no help. I on occasion will feel it try to crank over, it just doesn't turn over.

I then go and see if the oil is low, maybe there is a sensor to cause it to not crank over because it is low? Well there is only a quarter left or so, so I decide to flush it out. I go out and buy a new 5qt of 5w30 and then a new oil filter.

We spend an hour or so letting it drain and it took us so long to get this, even worst then the stupid spark plugs, oil filter off. It was blacker than black. Then, the oil itself was, what my father said "the most disgusting oil I have ever seen in my life, it looks just like water even."

Either way, we fill it up with new oil - crank, crank, crank.. no help - go eat, come out, crank crank crank, nothing. I am hoping it is not flooded and something is BROKEN in the engine because I have a bumper to bumper extended warranty that covers drivetran and a bunch of other things; so if Mazda (fingers crossed) finds the engine broken, they will pay for a new engine and all that other expensive fun stuff; if it's flooded then I can be oh so happy to end up paying something around $400 for towing and the work Mazda does.

*sigh* if only people who didn't know how to operate a rotary engine didn't touch my car.

A) The level and quality of your oil shouldn't ever have any impact on your ability to start the car. If it does have an impact on starting, then you are far past critical damage levels.

B) It sounds like it's just heavily flooded, as you would expect from a short move and turn off while it has failing ignition. You won't get it to deflood if the ignition is still shot. You sweep the fuel out and it just keeps re-flooding because it can't produce a solid enough spark. Coils and wires to go along with those plugs. Once you have them, be patient and take your time with deflooding. A flood this bad could easily take more time than normal.

C) If you take a video of attempting to crank it, we can give a pretty good estimate of if your starter is spinning fast enough (in case it's the starter).

At least you have that warranty. I saw the thread and groaned to myself "two in one night that bought an 8 that died within a very short period of purchase".

If you don't already have compression scores from purchase, I'd go get them anyway. If it's low getting an engine under the warranty will be good. Checking now keeps them from trying to say it's your fault. 3rd party warranties often try to shift it back on you, so the sooner you do it, the better.

I don't think this is widely documented but if you squirt some seafoam into the two LIM vacuum ports that'll help to clear a heavy flood.

In those instances where I flooded the procedure right out of the manual ultimately was the way to go.

1. Hold the pedal at WOT, crank for 15-20 seconds.

2. Wait a minute, repeat.

3. Wait a minute, repeat.

4. Normal crank no throttle a couple times -- 15-20 seconds each. If it tries to fire and refloods (you'll know by the sound of the crank) start over at 1.

5. get it up to operating temp then go drive the piss out of it.

Also -- man sure are a lot of "I just bought my 8 and it died" posts lately. Seems all the 2004 non fanatics are dumping their 8 on account of the extended warranty expiring.

or try starting it by compression. Let your dad push the car (since he was the one who flooded it) and put it in second gear when you get a little speed. Let the clutch go and it should start up, dont let it die or it will flood again. It will run like crap in the beginning but once the engine is warm, drive it hard.

good luck, let us know.

+1 on going to get a compression test at the dealer. You might want to open a file with your nearest dealer. Keep your oil and filter receipts like the one you made today. You will need it if ever you need a new engine.

Cheers

Are all the plugs in the right place, and the wires in the right order? If you dad did the plugs without knowing how to do them, they could be in the wrong spot?

Could it be a dead battery? Do you hear a clicking noise while trying to start it?

If I read correctly, you have the plugs in, but not the coils right? I would verify the correct positions like ^^ as well as correct wires to the correct spots. Here is a diagram where you can work it out.

https://www.rx8club.com/trouble-shoo...-order-208027/

T/F is trailing front. Then install the coils as soon as they arrive.

And, you do not mention the age, but if it is an older one, the stuff behind the First $100 link in my signature will be useful. However, I would get it back to running before I started with modifications.

Good luck.

Mine was heavily flooded

Cranking with the plugs out. Disconnect ESS and pull fuel pump relay. I installed the upgraded starter which doubles cranking RPM.
Paper towel over the plug holes. Crank 10 seconds per minute until nothing comes out of the plug holes while cranking; This will take some time... Clean off the plugs.
Reconnect everything and fire it up.

Tow- start it.

Long cranking times probably aren't just because of a failing ignition system. Do a compression test and have fun.

Could there be a fuse or any other reason? One cold turn-off flood should NOT have me cranking for this long of 10 sets of no throttle cranking of 5 on 6 off then a minute or two break and back on it. I have done this a billion times and still nothing (note I am following the DIY and unplugged the Fuel fuse as well).

Now yes the plugs are in right THIS TIME. When we pulled them they were completely wrong, aka both trailing were in the "front" of the engine plug spots, and both leading were in the back.

I am going to try again for a bit, if not then I have to take it into a Mazda place I guess and see what happens. Also, they can't do a compression test while it is flooded, or can they?

Compression test while flooded could be false positive.

And yes the short move didn't flood it badly. All the failed attempts after that is what flooded it badly.

Yes, well I took out the spark plugs now, sitting out here cranking it a little at a time though what concerns me is it is blowing out a LOT of gas. I do have the air plug disconnected (wastes power?) and the fuel fuse out - any other steps?

Also, how will I know when it is "ready" for the fuel fuse back in, when it stops shooting out all of the gas?

Well, that will be the starting point. Still, be patient, don't rush and reflood.

i worked at a Mazda dealer from 2004-2008, and when these cars are flooded badly it can take an hour of cranking to get these to start.

the fuel on the housings/seals lowers compression, so its kind of like two bad things.

if you want it quick, either try a pull start, or put a little oil in the chambers and spin it by hand

I think I am going to give up trying to deflood it - it just seems I keep flooding it over and over again? even after I make sure that it is dry to the bone with plugs out and everything?

are you getting any spark at all? You should at least be hearing it start to fire every couple attempts.

It only "starts" to "rumble" aka fire I think after 20 on-off cranks while the fuel pump is disconnected. Then it automatically floods again. Sparks are new, don't have the coils or wires. I think something is more wrong, I have a video imma upload from youtube in a minute to show my problems.

It doesn't "sound" good when it cranks either, I think something else is wrong - lets just hope it's all covered under warranty, tomorrow morning we will find out.

video: http://youtu.be/nAHlMRbXjWs

You'll need to let it crank for far more than a couple seconds... Let your starter cool down between long cranks.

It took me over an hour once following the below procedure:

Since we know it's a manual ... do as others have suggested and just push/pull start it.

I have been "cranking" it for 10 reps of 4-5 seconds on, 6 seconds off. So you are saying I should do that, let it sit for couple minutes, then repeat? for an hour? I feel like my starter would just might as well fall off. Also, does that even sound good? (listen to the video)

EDIT: Also, I only did it a few times in that video, because I was cranking it for a while before that and I don't want to over do it.

4-5 seconds on should be 10-15 seconds on. Yeah it's a biatch on the starter.... be sure to let it cool down between attempts.

Hook everything back up.... do the deflood procedure from the manual.

foot down to the floor .. crank 15 seconds ... wait a couple minutes ... repeat 2-3 times ... foot off the accelerator and crank ... it should try to fire up... if it does then you know you're on the right track and it's only matter of more tries till it sufficiently clears.

You may also need to tap/massage the pedal a little while it's trying to start.

-----

or just go push/pull the damn thing.

I gotta ask since you got the plugs and coils from autozone what brand did you get? Possibility you got cheap junk plugs and coils.

https://www.rx8club.com/mazmart-88/r...-cheap-212806/

I got that tuneup kit and my baby runs like a champ.

EDIT: Also check you V.I.N. with you local mazda dealership and see whats been done service wise because there is service recalls for better flash programs for flooding issues, "etc."

OK, so after waiting for a while, I went out there to do what you said, it cranked over, started, then died =( what a tease.

Quick question, wth does WOT mean??

Also so it should be clutch + gas to the floor for the first 2-3 cranks, then do a normal crank?

Our coils are unique to my knowledge. If there are any knock-offs out there we haven't heard of them. The price difference is usually just markup, since even a 30% markup undercuts the dealers.

The plugs were NGK (the same OEM brand?) and the coils which I haven't got yet was Duralast? (OEM as well?)

I am also willing to bet mine was never done with a new flash - the previous owners didn't ever seem to know what they were doing to get this car to work like the beast it is. If i get it running I will take it to the mazda dealership and do a full inspection including another compression test when I drive it down to school today hopefully - we will see.

WOT is Wide Open Throttle. Our car has a de-flood mode built-in. Gas pedal all the way to the floor while cranking == fuel cut.

Basically what you're doing is clearing the chambers prior to letting more fuel in. You want to do this 2-3 times for 15 seconds each time prior to letting it try to start on its own.

When it does start fire it's going to spurt and spuddle and jump and woggle (lol!). You may need to apply a little bit of gas to get her past this "phase".

Put her in neutral, apply the parking brake and don't worry about the clutch (beyond pushing it down to get her to crank).

It will start. The tease you mentioned tells me as much. Be prepared to be greeted by some serious smoke too.

Dear Everyone,

I thank you all for the help, I just ran ShellDude's steps again and it finally cranked over! I am letting it run for a while and might even go to the store really quick just because.

Anyways thank you all for the help, it sounds like it is running smoother and nicer now due to the new oil and spark plugs, and hopefully the coils will help even more.

Ok James ... now that we're through it... I must point out that normally you would've been flamed to no end (and it still might come). The procedure I had you follow is right out of your owners manual :) :) :)

Neither of those two are OEM but the spark plugs yes they work click on my link

https://www.rx8club.com/mazmart-88/r...-cheap-212806/

all those parts are NGK personally from what i've seen here on the forum dont install any major components of an RX8 with the name brand duralast thats autozones knockoff.

W.O.T. Wide Open Throttle (gas pedal to the floor)

Go on mazmart and order the coils from there the guy Paul who runs the place is a great guy to deal with.

Its labor day so I doubt you local dealer is open except for sales which is usless to you so call tomorrow and check the cars history.

Mazmart Shopping Cart

Just the coils.

OK, well the coils are already shipped to my townhome down @ school so nothing I can do about them now? Hell, I am going to plop them in anyways, probably better then what is already getting run on this car anyways knowing that the spark plugs were disgusting and in the wrong spots and the oil looks like it hasn't been changed in 100k miles.

Either way thanks for the tips, once I have more money i'll probably change out the coils and wires then. I also do thank everyone for the patience, I do know those were probably from the owners manual - that of which I do not have in my car as it did not come with it? :(

I do have a question: is it supposed to take a while for the engine to crank over, or is that my starter being shitty? I am going to take it to Mazda later this week when I have time, though I was wondering if anyone could answer it off the bat.

EDIT: the reason I went with the Duralast coils was because they were only $28.00 / coil vs the $220 for 4. Saved me more then half, and I am only a college kid (granted with pretty good income) though I wasn't expecting to drop $220 on just coils.

Sounds flooded. Easy fix

Mine had been flooded twice (wasn't me either time). Tow starting fired it up both times and is actually surprisingly easy if you have a stock bumper... (can screw in the tow hook thingy in about 7 seconds)

Hard to start warm rotaries are typical with age and are a sign of poor compression and/or weak ignition.

Be sure to read our "New and Potential Owners" threads, here: https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-discuss...t-here-202454/

They'll save you from a ton of grief...

Should start a lot better with the coils.

When you install them, do the 20 brake pedal stomp to reset the ECU. I think the procedure is to turn on the car and stomp the brake pedal 20 times as fast as you can. One of the gauges will move to tell you it succeeded on some models. All this and more is in the links above.

And, welcome.

I do suggest that once you are running well you clean the MAF and clean the ESS sensor. Again, the procedures are in the links above or you can search.

+1 on 04Green`s previous comment. There is a lot of free stuff you can do to improve performance, smooth idle etc.

Get those coils in. Dont keep it for later. Its only 28 bucks each. Poor ignition can controbute to cat failure, indirectly engine failure, misfires etc. If they were never changed, I would do it asap.

Also clean your ESS, MAF sensor with electric contact cleaner or throttle body cleaner. While youre under there push out your air filter box and check your air filter. If its not that dirty you can dust it off, vaccum it. I would put the K&N drop in which is like 60 dollars but lasts a lifetime and traps more dirt. You can buy the cleaning kit and renew it every year.

cheers!

Actually, K&N traps less than OEM paper.

See filter section, 2nd link in my sig

If you have a MT..pull start it. Put in the front tow hook and pull it to about 20mph...put it in gear ( key on :) ) and let the clutch out until it turns over...it will likely start in about 50 feet. Keep it running by modulating the gas until it clears out all the crap

Be prepared for a smoke show...the neighbours called the fire department when I started mine after the body shop flooded it really bad :)

he already fixed the problem silly pants

LOL....didn't see that. All the flooding talk without pull starting gives me a headache :)

So...was it really your old man the one who flooded the car?
:cwm27::cwm27::cwm27:

I told my dad once if ever he were to move my car in the garage that he needed to warm up the car before turning it off or it would flood and not start again. So one time he moved my car and he let it idle for 20 mins!!! I said no need for 20 mins of wasting my gas, just for the temp needle to slightly move then youre fine. It can be below C and still not be flooded.

Yea, he probably did, because he pulled it across the street (we have a park across the street with parking) and just cut it off, so it was on for a whole 30 seconds. He knows now - even though he still thinks it's ridiculous to have it "run" to not flood when just moving it 5 feet.

I will also clean the MAF and the ESS (if I can get to it) when I do the coils since I have to take off the air intake anyways right?

And that is why the RX8 isn't for everyone. :hahano:

The reason why I made that comment is because often times people say "my girlfriend, dad, friend, cousin, etc." did this and now my car won't run; when in reality they are just afraid of admitting they were the ones who did it!!

So I was just messing with ya':cwm27:

And yes, you might as well do the work you mentioned since the intake will be removed.

Dont suppose anyone has a good list of all these little things, 04greens link is pretty good and found a few things in there i havent found in the rest of the forums, hard to find stuff for us new owners mainly becouse we dont know what were really looking for.

Try this one out, I've noticed a lot of mods link to this for first time owners, it's quite helpful to most.

Congratulations, You got an 8!]

You lost me at WOT WAT is WOT?

BTW, what year is the 8?
My 06 has never flooded after doing the recall or what ever it is called TSR?

glad the issue got resolved, reminds me of the one time my car got flooded dad related as well I was sleep he got up early to wash his car moved mine and left it where it was I know he's anal about putting things back in place so I was like yea he probably flooded it went to move it and it was flooded I was like "wow dude I told you to let the needle move at least a few notches off the C before shutting it down".