LittleZ360

04' 6spd (gt) 51,000 miles, well maintained, not babied but not abused. I'm
experienced with manual transmission and i'll save everybody the obvious question, yes I know to press into the gearbox and over-back to get to reverse.
Have been one of the lucky few to get this far without any serious issues in general with the car.

To start, yes, I've gone through the search results, I'm familiar with rx8club and have done my reading, so please don't knock me for posting something that has been discussed. I say this because the problems I'm having have been discussed, but not quite as extreme and sudden.

2 days ago I'm leaving for work, car warmed up, I go to reverse and it just grinded a little and jumped out of gear, first time this ever happened. I thought I was clumsy and just didn't fully engage the stick. I started over and got into gear fine and was on my way.
Later that night, car warmed up, go to back out and same thing! I thought okay that's not good... started over and it jumped out of gear again! Jumped on rx8club and tried the pull the stick back and ease off the clutch technique and it clicked into gear and was on my way. So 10 mins later I'm driving down the road, 3rd gear at about 3k rpms, and while applying gas came a metal rattling sound from under the dash the front dash area, and would go away when I let off the gas pedal. This was just in 3rd gear and above 3k rpms.
I brought the car home and jumped on rx8club and read about other people having similar experiences. Clutch pedal seems normal and doesn't wobble or anything but didn't do any measurements of the play or disengaging point yet.
Clutch working fine going through gears while driving and seems to be no different than usual as far as tension and pedal travel.


So yesturday, I decided to get it out and investigate the issue a little further.
Warmed the car up, tried reverse, jumped out of gear, tried sliding into different gears first then going into "R" and I tried giving a slight rev then shifting, but nothing would work other than pulling back on the stick while easing off the clutch.
Then I go to drive away and it jumped out of 1st gear! I start over and drive off. Minutes later that metal rattling sound comes back only now its in 2nd and 3rd gear and starts at lower rpms, but still only when applying gas. Then at a stop sign, it jumps out of 1st gear when I'm about to start moving again!!

I brought the car home without any improvements and put it in the driveway.
I had a lot to do yesturday so I left the car for the time being and decided to deal with it today.

NOW.... I warmed up my car, and tried getting into reverse normally...No go. Tried the ease off the clutch and pull towards reverse trick and it wouldnt slide into gear! It took 5 attempts until it finally clicked into gear! Then go to drive off and it jumped out of 1st gear, then again, and again! I gave a slight rev this time, pushed in the clutch, went to 1st, and it engaged. Now the metal rattle is still only in 2nd and 3rd with gas, but much louder. I stop at a sign and go and it pops out of 1st again, then again, and I have to rev a bit before clutching and shifting into 1st. I go right back home, and in the driveway tried 1st and "R" and both took many attempts. I shut her down in fear of causing further damage.

Here I am, without a warranty, and just recently took a plummit it finances....
I'm so stressed out I don't even want to go investigate more.
I figure a trans oil change is one thing to do, and maybe measure the clutch pedal movements. I've heard a bent shift fork can have similar symptoms but this was so sudden and there wasn't an occurance that would hurt the car! Is there a chance my clutch pedal bracket could be the issue without being obvious to the eye?
Please....somebody throw some positive hope my way and hopefully a solution.
Like I said, I'm low in funds for a little while so I would like to avoid taking it to the stealership or shop.

So men? What should be my game plan?

wcs

iTrader: (2)

Nice write up and in the correct section!
Excellent.

Unfortunately transmission problems are hard to diagnose.
I agree with your diagnosis ..
It's easy to look at your clutch pedal bracket and see if its broken.
Otherwise I'm afraid you are going to have to take it in.

Sub'd to follow in interest and results.
(Fyi I've had syncro problems since day one! Transmissions in these cars suck ****)

LittleZ360

Yeah I think it'll end up in a shop as well, but I want to cover as much as I can before doing so. Plus the more I learn the less vulnerable I am to the techs evil persuasions.
Is it possible that air is in the hydraulic system of the clutch and doesnt allow a full stroke? I don't know why that would happen though. Can the clutch pedal bend slightly out of spec? not just breaking, and cause issues?
Is there an easy way to rule out a shift fork? Throwout bearing? Synchro? or is all that too complex for an "average" DIY'er?

darkraven.r6

Clutch pedal bracket might cause problems getting into gear, but doesn't really explain why it's popping out of gear.

godesshunter

That was my first reaction also.

How does the transmission shift when the engine is not running? Does it feel overly chunky or notchy? The shift fork should give you problems shifting with engine running or not. The syncros should only give a problem when engine is running.

EDZRIDE

iTrader: (1)

That's usually a fork problem.

LittleZ360

The gear shifts feel about the same with the car off... Doesn't quite engage "r" and will go into 1st but doesn't really seem locked into it.
The "popping out of gear" phrase I was using could be kind of vague.
What I was implying is that it would jump back into neutral when i let out the clutch and not really fully engaged in the first place even when it feels like its in....
Would the clutch pedal contribute to the metal rattly sound in 2nd and 3rd gear with gas applied?
Thanks for chiming in guys.

godesshunter

The shift fork or linkage could have a problem. Not allowing you to fully engage the gear.

LittleZ360

From what it seems, not getting engaged into gear is thought to be the shift fork as a likely cause... Does this explain the metal rattling sound in 2nd and 3rd gears?
I'm praying from somebody to say "oh I had that happen, just disconnect the battery and reset the computer"
But I'm guesing that's not the case...although haven't tried. lol

wrightcomputing

iTrader: (5)

1st thing I would do is drive to a few garages and ask the mechanics if they have seen something like that before most back street garages will take you car for a drive and be able to tell you whats wrong and give you a quote.

2nd idea take it to the dealership and tell them money is tight and you just want a quote for the work, some will help out, some will want and inspection fee or similar.

3rd if you hurting for money you could open it up and have a look. Removing the transmission (replacing the clutch) took me about 9 hours doing it the first time on my own. I would think the problem would be more obvious when you can see whats inside. A new clutch will cost about $300 + a few tools you might not have.

Cvzrx8

Sounds like shift fork problems for sure, i broke one of mine before and it wasnt pretty lol http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dAgC...zNsd0e-HFTU%3D
But when a gear pops out its because the detent ***** arent doing their jobs keeping the forks in place, or the forks are bent warped or just not straight lol. Could be premature failure or someone was too rough with your car but simply these transmission are pretty weak and badly made the 09 transmission is a lot better but pricey... rebuilds are expensive as well the only recommendation is to find one for a decent price here on the forums or lkq simply somewhere, better to find one with a warranty. If the clutch pedal bracket is broken the dealer will replace it that is a recall. More than likely it is an internal issue :/

LittleZ360

Well as for now I'm kinda set on having it towed into the dealership (Anderson Mazda, Crystal Lake) tomorrow. Haven't spoken to them yet though.

One more question and may seem stupid. My clutch/brake fluid resevior fluid level is halfway between "min" and "max". The owners manual says this level will go down over time due to wear in hoses and brake pad wear.... I don't suppose topping this off would help any?
Who am I kidding... it's probably an internal tranny issue.

Karack

pop off the center console and remove the shifter, the nylon sleeve at the base pivot might have disintegrated which will cause the rattling noise and a lack of shifter throw to get it into gear properly.

cross your fingers. only other thing i can think of with the issue of popping out of gear aside from the shifter is worn bearings allowing the whole main shaft to shift, ie new/used transmission needed, or at the very least a front main shaft bearing(should be replaceable without disassembling the whole unit).

LittleZ360

Karack--- Thanks, my fingers are crossed and I'm about to go take off my center console. I'm guessing this nylon sleeve will be noticable? But if disintegrated... what will I see? lol
Can we all cross our fingers?
I'll let you know what I find... I'd take a pic but in the past I've had troubles posting pics.

Karack

yes, when you remove the shifter it is a plastic cup that sits on the bottom pivot. if it doesn't come out with the shifter then you may have found the issue.

LittleZ360

The white cup thing stayed on the shifter when I pulled it out. It looks fully intact and doesn't seem to have any signs of excessive wear... anything else I should be looking for?

Karack

the one on the very bottom right? there's another larger one in the center used for positioning the shifter. aside from that, i can't offer anything for a quick test aside from reassemble the shifter and check to see if it feels sloppy in any way.

LittleZ360

Should the black part on top of the shifter (the part that the **** screws onto) supposed to be able to move freely off the rest of the shifter? it spins freely and slides right off the shiny part of the shifter. Both white plastic pieces seem fine really... what you think?

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

just so u guys know early 04 has an known issue with the shift fork.

but the only way to know is one of us here have to test your car ... not possible for me cuz I'm in NYC

LittleZ360

Well can this black part of the shifter be my problem? Would that really explain my issues?

LittleZ360

So the black threaded portion of my shifter seperates and spins on the bottom shaft portion of the shifter.
For the time being, I think I'm going to wrap some teflon tape at the end of the shaft where the black portion goes onto in order to keep it tight and eliminate any wobble even though I don't notice any, then bring it in to work and throw some small welds at the btm to secure it in the orientation I see the in pictures, leaving the yellow dot facing 4th gear (6oclock) and the curve facing 3 oclock (to the right)
I'm not totally convinced this is reason for my gear issues, but clearly isn't right.
I just dont see how this would prevent me from getting a full stroke in the gearbox...
If this helps my issues then I'll be happy to buy a nice short shifter for a more perma fix.
Again... still skeptical.
Any thoughts???

LittleZ360

I decided to epoxy the black portion of the shifter onto the bottum portion, thats what it appears the factory did to assemble it and mine must have just broken loose. Shifts feel the same as before. Still tough getting into "1st" & "R" the other's engage fine. Still a rattling noise in "2nd" & "3rd" with gas applied.

One other thing I've recently noticed was my stick seems to have a little more vibration with the clutch depressed (foot off). Not crazy, but more than usual... I've been suspecting I'm about ready for new motor mounts. Could this possibly cause the engine and tranny to be slightly out of line and result in my kind of symptoms? Prob screwing with bearings...?

My heads spinning guys, and I have a couple more hours until I'm ready to bring it to the dealership.
If I find a good lead to the source of my issue, I'll hold off on the dealership, but I'm not going to let my car sit all spring.

My heads spinning...

LittleZ360

Car towed to dealership...
They will not have time to look at it until tomorrow morning.
I tried to avoid them, but I atleast need a diagnosis at this point
I'll update when I get home from work tomorrow.
Thanks for chiming in fellas.

Karack

sorry it sounded a little deeper than an easy fix, something that hands on diagnostics will likely need.

LittleZ360

Hey guys.
So today I got a call from the dealership.
They claim the synchros are damaged, probably the aftermath of a bent shift fork.
They rec'n a new transmission, in fear the labor costs will stack up during repair of the current transmission past the cost of a new one going in.
New tranny including labor= $2,750 +tax
They said I can take the old tranny home with me, if I don't want it, they'll offer a salvage price for the old one after it's dropped out.
So I'll be taking out a personal loan and just have them go through with it. I'm tempted to do it myself, but this way I'll have a warranty on the tranny, and if anything goes wrong with it I can easily just point my finger at them.

While it's there I'm going to have them go ahead and do a "decarb" plus coils, plugs and wires.

Next week I'm gonna be looking to order new motor mounts and after a little more research, I think I'm going to order the "synchro saver" to prevent any chance of over shifting.

After that I'm just going to hope and pray for easier times.
Again everybody, thanks for your support.
Maybe I'll update this again and let you know how the results fair out.