Starter not engaging the flywheel
 

2004 mazda rx8 84K 6spd

The car was not starting...(not flooded)...the oem starter would not engage... it tested bad.... so i got a new starter from advance.... after i put it in it the starter would not hit the flywheel and engage... so i got a new battery with 850 cold cranking amps... nothing changed... took the starter back and got another one.... still will not hit the flywheel... so i take it to advance and a local starter shop to test the starter and both said it checked good...i took the car to a local mechanic to have him put it in and still the same he told me the starter is missing the flywheel by an 1/8 inch..so i went and got another starter from advance.... still the same... the starter from advance had the part number n3h1-18-400 (right starter for the car) and they told me it was the updated starter and was putting out the right amps....... the car still has the factory flywheel... any suggestions.... HELP PLEASE..... all the teeth on the flywheel is good by the way.... has anyone had the same problem????


Thanks

JOHN

you either install it wrong. or you got the 09+ starter. (I think its the same tho. hmm need to check)

I'm curious how they could tell it was missing the flywheel by 1/8"

First thing you would normally check is the gap for the drive pinion while its extended out, but with a new (and multiple) starters having the same "issue" I really doubt this is something you need to do.
How exactly are they testing the starter?
Just applying voltage to the solenoid to watch the drive pinion extend out?

Like nycgps mentioned... might be the wrong starter.

Thats just what they told me... they said something about the teeth on the flywheel had marks where the starter was barely hitting...

The upgraded starter p/n is N3Z1-18-400
N3H1-18-400 was the original.

the drive on all three starters was going out all the way to the end...

as for advance and the starter shop checking to c if the starters was good... they checked it on a machine that reads amp put out and just watched the drive come out...

o... then advance lied to me...

But they never measured the pinion gap to tell if it was traveling to where it should be.
Either way, three starters having the same symptom tells me it isn't an issue with the starters.

Lets verify the basics.... is it wired correctly?
Attachment 145039

yes... when i unbolt it and hold it in my hand it zips out 100 mph..... i just put it back in and it catches the flywheel barely... i can hear it tap it.... but it never engages... I wish more rx8 owners lived near me... London, KY by the way..

Does it sound like the teeth are constantly grinding when you attempt to start it?

they do not grind at all... it just zips... but the plunger comes out...

Just to clarify...
When you have the starter out and you turn the key to 'start', the solenoid pushes the drive pinion forward and the gear spins continuously until you turn the key off of the 'start' position?
Meaning, you can hold that key on 'start' for a good 5-10sec and the drive will continue to spin with the pinion extended?

yep

And when the drive pinion retracts back (key not in the start position) the gear is in the same position as in the attached pic below?
Attachment 145040

Its the same one. :(

hmm, Jon has a point ... check it out.

I am very interested to see what the issue is here. I have never heard of this problem unless someone were to buy the wrong starter.

sorry im back.... i fooled around with it... no luck.. still wont catch...it goes back in everytime...... Do i just need to buy the new upgraded OEM from the factory...

does nething seem loose around the starter which could have put it out of position?

theres nothing loose....I twisted the flywheel around with a bar and it of course didnt slip and ever tooth was good....

Thought you said the teeth had some wear from the starter not quite biting? If that us indeed the case, you have atleast the wrong model starter or something is not in line right to cause the starters teeth to not engage with the flywheel teeth

the teeth are fine.. but you can c where the starter hits the very edge of the teeth....

Sounds like the starter mount housing is too short. Do you have your old starter handy to check to see if the housing is the same length?

turned it in for the core

Here's a couple of pics for measurements. Don't mind where the gauge is sitting on the left. It's just the camera angle. See if your starter housing is close to these numbers. They are in Millimeters.
If your starter housing is under those dimensions then the autoparts store has an issue with their supplier of starters.

75.63 mm
Attachment 274083

38.63 mm
Attachment 274084

Sick ass ruler Easy, where you get it?

I bought mine from Matco. This is Mazdamaniacs. But any any Autoparts/Sears/Harbor Freight, tool place will have them. Anywhere from $$20.00 to $200.00. Depends on the model and manufacturer. Of course you get what you pay for too.

Thanks.... I will measure mine right now.... :)

$200 bucks??? Jesus, I better get a BJ with it!!!

Ok... the first is almost the same... i cant really tell on the second pic.... is your ruler in the middle....

its the same....

When you attempt to start the car, does the starter spin the flywheel.. meaning, does the engine crank like it wants to start?

It's on the right side/back of the bendix gear hole.
Does the starter sit flush against the bell housing when installed?

Its called a digital caliper.
I have one by Mitutoyo.
Anyone who troubleshoots should have one and you do get what you pay for.

how much you pay for urs?

I'm starting to think that the starter(s) are fine.
Maybe when his original starter died, it caused his car to flood.
He mentioned seeing markings on the flywheel, but how do we know that the new starters caused it?
Those markings could have been there from the original starter.

Here is a whole bunch to look at. Find one that fits your needs and buy it. :wiggle:

Digital Calipers

Ummm... my work was nice enough to let me "borrow" them :lol2:

But we get ours from McMaster-Carr:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#mitutoyo-di...lipers/=3jcjwa
They are on the higher price side like Easy mentioned they could be, but you want a good caliper that has a certification of calibration if your measurements need to be accurate.

Marking on the edge of the ring gear is pretty normal. Due to the engagement of the bendix gear.
I would expect he could hear the starter spinning at a high rpm if it's not hitting the flywheel. A bit different from the sound of the engine turning over and not starting.
But if the end of the starter is the same, then it should be engaging the flywheel and turning the engine over. I don't know if the engine is turning over or not.
Unless his battery is week. But then it would just click.

Thanx bro

I know alot about them, my company orders a mojority of our simple products from them, they are reliable and diverse.



Thanx dudes!!!

That's what I'm wonder.
If the engine is turning over, then the starter is doing its job and he may just have a flooded engine caused by his original starter that failed.

i agree 100%. but he already said her replaced the battey with a high CCA battery, so I don't think that would be the issue

I know I was just making a reference to sounds.
Find a caliper you like yet? I have always wanted one of these. Would make life simpler.

I gotcha, didn't pick up the reference, but on the reread, I do. And no, havn't picked out one yet, still working on getting a new ride

so is the answer to this just flooded????!? or not? im having the same exact answer new battery only a couple months old. and brand new starter put it into today, earlier this morning my starter died, (its been slowly dying) so i did the install everything is perfectly fine and connected. i used the diy post. and just read this entire thread, and was hoping to find the answer, but then it just died

Have you tried running the de-flooding procedure to see if it is the problem?

Did anyone find an answer to this ? Having the same problem need help asap

Having the same problem. My old starter (original from 05) died, over the past 12 months I have watched the RPM slowly decrease. The other day the inevitable happened and it would no longer turn the engine fast enough to start it.

I ordered a replacement and it would spin just fine, but was not engaging the flywheel. Returned it and ordered another from a different source. Same result, starter spins but will not engage the flywheel.

After reading this and other threads I pulled the starter again to check the gear on the flywheel that is engaged by the starter (to see if it had come loose). Everything appears to be fine.

I have tried jumping using another car to eliminate the battery as a cause, and engaging the key multiple times quickly with no luck.

I have also swapped the starter relay under the hood.

Is there anything else in this circuit that might be failing?

You can look at a diagram here.

Normalexception.net - Documents

Thanks for the link

I have now bench tested the starter and it is working properly.

I also inspected the gear at the outside edge of the flywheel and it seems to be in good shape and securely fixed in place.