Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

I'll bring my Fluke next time we meet and verify the alternator and battery.
Best thing we can do is just start knocking out possibilities and narrow it down.
Sometimes it helps to be a little open minded while troubleshooting so you don't overlook something because it "supposedly" worked fine before when in reality it was only being masked.

Vyndictive

iTrader: (28)

Yeah... I guess we'll just start with the easy ones and work our way down to "new engine."

Vyndictive

iTrader: (28)

Well, ran a full tank of gas through the engine... even with these problems and such, MPG is not affected.

266 miles on 13.2 gallons (20mpg for you math majors out there)
A Mix of highway/city... I figured it would be much lower if there was a bunch of junk in the intake. It does support the theory of potentially running lean.

Vyndictive

iTrader: (28)

Cleaned the MAF and then sprayed some deep creep into the butterfly valve in the throttle body last night.

Car runs better, but stalling remains.

Is there some idle air valve that could be stuck that could be causing the car to not get any air when idling?

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

So RK, DeViLbOi, and myself met with Vyndictive today to troubleshoot this issue.
It ended up being a stuck SSV valve that caused this headache.
I'll explain how this went down:

1st thing I did was removed the intake accordion tube and found a nice puddle of oil residue.
I then opened the throttle body flap and stuck my finger in.
I could feel gritty oil all the way in (not to mention my finger was black).
After removing the throttle body I stuck my finger in and felt the same oily grit.

We removed the upper intake manifold and it was oily all the way through.
I could see the SSV valve had a nice build-up along the outside.
I tried to move the value using a hand vacuum pump attached to the actuator, but it wouldn't budge.
We sprayed Sea Foam down the intake passage and let it sit for a while, but that didn't help.
I ended up taking a flat-head screwdriver to the right side of the SSV lever (attaches the actuator shaft to the valve) and hit it with a mini sledge.
Once the lever started moving I could see the valve was slightly open, enough to stick a screwdriver down and pry at it.
I made sure to use a thick screwdriver because I didn't want it breaking in the intake passage.
But I was able to open it fully by using the intake housing to pry the valve.
It wouldn't close on its own, so I had to manually close it while spraying Sea Foam on the valve.
I tried to scrape off as much grit from the valve as possible and sprayed again with Sea Foam.
Once I worked it back an forth a few times I was able to use the hand pump to actuate the valve.
It would open and then slower close, so we kept on spraying Sea Foam in there and worked it back and forth.
After a while I was able to actuate it without it sticking.

We also decided to use Mazda's Engine Cleaner to spray into the intake maintenance ports following their instructions.
We cleaned the upper intake manifold, the throttle body, the accordion tube, and the MAF sensor.
I pulled his RB intake filter out and it looked fine.
After all that we reassembled everything and started the engine (to which we enjoyed the white smoke show).
After the engine warmed and the idle dropped to 880 RPM we revved it up and it returned to idle without any hesitations.
Feeling good about that we took it for a test drive and everything ran smooth.

Since we couldn't possibly remove all build-up I recommended to Vyn that he spray some Sea Foam through the throttle body every now and then just to help work the rest free (still won't be perfect, but can't hurt).
So I would recommend that anyone with idle issues, simply actuate the SSV valve (by hand or with a vacuum pump) and see if it moves.

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

RK took a couple pics:

Vyn holding the light while I pried at the SSV valve


Here is the SSV valve stuck closed... not very pretty:


Here is the SSV valve after getting it opened.


White smoke delight:

Vyndictive

iTrader: (28)

So... what caused this? Most likely overfilling the oil... be careful who you trust your car with. I had a good relationship with the guys at the local midas. Would charge 13 bucks if I supplied the oil.
In the colder months, changing your own oil in your daily driver 8 isn't the most appealing thing.

So... makes a good case for purchasing a cheap oil catch can. Good enough for me to purchase one soon.

rotarWEEE!

After having the same issue and reading the great posts I performed all the suggestions and have yet to solve the same issue. The SSV valve was functioning normally, there was some build up inside so I used some sea foam to help with that. The vaccum would operate the valve normally. I cleaned the throttle body and also the MAF sensor to no avail. I'm stumped at this point. The car continues to stall when stopping. It is like the car will not hold an idle and dips to around 500 rpm then will begin to stall if I don't tap the gas. At this point I am going to have to take it to the dealer here in Cincinnati, OH and see what is going on. Almost 80000 miles on my car so hoping it is not too serious like a new engine. I will post the findings. I fear for my ride.

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

Actuating the valve rules out one thing, but doesn't rule out a bad SSV solenoid (which we didn't have).
Also, with 80,000 miles when was the last time you changed your spark plugs and coils?

heyarnold69

iTrader: (1)

What the voltage / amps when the car is running?
hows the cat?
Try cleaning the o2 sensors with some brake cleaner
clean throttle body
clean injectors
fuel filter screen thingee?
Sea foam the engine
clean maf

...I also had a staling issue. the problem was actually fixed with a new MM map. no idea why but he did mention something about fuel scaling?

rotarWEEE!

I changed the plugs and wires about 3months ago and it had been running great after that. I did not change the coils though.

rotarWEEE!

I am seriously thinking of sea foaming the engine. Also, checking the o2 sensors is a good idea as well. I cleaned the throttle body and maf with no luck.

rotarWEEE!

Well I am an idiot, car is running better than ever now. When reinstalling the upper intake I forgot to attach a vaccum hose. Went out this morning started it up, heard the hissing and sure enough plugged back in the hose and presto! Ultimately I think it was a dirty MAF sensor and throttle body. It was great to check the SSV valve operation and get some Sea Foam in there as well.

John316G, Vyndictive thanks for this thread it helped me out a ton.

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

Good to hear you got it running.

DOMINION

Another good read

PRX8

I stopped going to the Mazda Dealers, each time you go with a concern they just simply slap you with an invoice, the truth is that most of us owners know more about the RX8 engine than the Technician and the Service Rep cause they simply dont know **** about the engine exept their commisions and paycheck each 15 days... that's sorry.

Well as for many of us we keep supporting each other with facts and better answers than Mazda Dealers.

I'm just upset that a good car such as a Rotary the dam manufacturer doesn't even care about it's constant misterous problems.

teknics

To be honest the rx8's are too small of a concentration of serviced vehicles at the dealer that people dont take the time to learn them. Find a dealer with a real rotary technician and you will realize how good mazda really is, can't say the same about the writer's as most dont understand cars in general, but a good mazda rotary tech is a gift. Also technicians don't make commission, at least the majority of us.

The people you talk to don't give you answers because you don't know who to talk to. If you go to a dealership that is lacking in rotary know-how it's generally easy to pickup on, obviously trying to find facts at that dealer will be useless. There's normally at least 1 dealer in the area with a good rotary tech, but there isn't one in all dealers....again because rx8s are low-volume compared to 3's and 6's and even the miatas.

As far as Mazda not giving a damn about the rotary....umm have you looked at the auto industry? Mazda is THE ONLY ONE who gives a damn about rotary, they fought tooth and nail to bring it BACK, they didnt plan the rx8, they were forced into the body of the vehicle. They had to meet ford's requirements in many areas. They took on those challenges all in the name of bringing rotary back into the world.

Mazda is constantly going thru rotary engine information, it's reoccuring problems are under constant attention, if the Renesis fails mazda knows the rotary engine will be over. The Mazda Of Japan loves the rotary, why do you think the only motor they're heavily invested in hybrid technology with is the Hydrogen Renesis? They have hybrid Tributes, only in CA, and running completely unchanged Ford Escape gear, mazda modified nothing except the interior and exterior.

You may act like you're some great rotary fan or whatever, but if you're going to publically call out mazda not caring about the rotary then you obviously know NOTHING about the rotary and what mazda has gone thru to keep it alive.

And so you know, when you run into a dealership who doesnt "know" how to fix your car, that doesnt mean mazda doesn't know how. The technicians who have pride in their work are the ones taking and saving all the info mazda has available, hell I've been part of the developments and release of TSB's. It's a long boring process but all that is done to specifically find the real problem, not a band-aid, altho the bandaid fix is always released immediately it winds up being a bigger fix then is needed and generally more expensive. Then lastly there's always "politics" behind when and how information is released. Personally those who are in contact and really doing there job (such as speaking to the rotary master tech from japan who was in the US visiting dealers for almost 3 years, even getting his visa extended to stay and be a valuable resource) have knowledge of problems that you won't hear about for months, the whole engine decarb and msp16 flash was available almost a full 3-4 months before it was announced as an actual TSB.

but i ramble on.... just giving you an insight to the fact that mazda and their techs care about the rotary more then most people you'll ever know, and some of us have seen things you won't see for a few more years.

kevin.

Domin8r

I wanted to echo thanks to John316G and Vyn for this post. It was key. I had the exact same symptoms, and took a lot of people's advice. I have an '04 with 55k. New plugs at 50k, new OEM coils and RB wires last week, new Optima Red Top last week (and I Fluked my battery and alternator), clean MAF, reset NVRAM and KAM, and it wouldn't go away. Last ditch was the Mazda Engine Cleaner and scrubbing everything I could find, and still no dice. Panic ensued.

When I finally broke down and got it to a dealer to read the CEL, it threw a p0506. My MAF was in good shape, and they singled out the IAC. Had to get a new throttle body. Super glad/lucky that I bought the extended warranty 4 years ago, but that's not the point of the whole story--it was to single out how instrumental this thread was for a few key reasons:

1. no matter how frustrating it got, I knew there would be a good, logical way to problem-solve it based on the work of people on this board.

2. it's good to hear about other people's dealership experiences. Dealerships are like ERs--most of us don't want to put control over our machines and pocketbooks in other people's hands. Knowing how to navigate and deal with that is necessary. This site is where I learned about the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, which is total peace of mind.

Problem resolved. It runs so well right now, it blows my mind. Getting our engines fouled up is a slow, slippery slope. If I knew 20k miles ago what I know now, I would decarb my system every so often, scrub out my throttle body, get new coils preemptively, and take better care of my MAF.

p.s. I think this is my first post on this board. I come here all the time but never post because the quality of DIYs that I need is so good, I just learn what to do and it works. This community is really cool.

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

Good to hear you got your car running Domin8r and thanks for the compliment.
Its nice to hear that this forum has become such a wealth of knowledge and most problems can be described in detail by many experienced individuals who have encountered the same problems.
That is why I document and share my experiences with this forum... its a way of giving back and hopefully help someone else later on.

PRX8

Okay Teknics,

Honestly the Mazda World needs more Techs as yourself that garantees knowledge, heart, commitment, and solid answers with durable questions of clients who infact today still dishonor the come back of the rotary engine in the RX8, but the reality us Mazda owners know that most of 80% of the certified technician with updated licenses can't solve the mystery of our cars, we all know the RX8 is not a common car as the Mazda3 or Mazda5, Mazda6, etc... hell the sales of each of those cars speaks for it's self, YOUR OPINION IS BASED ON AS A DEALER and not in the eyes of us the consumer.

How would you feel as a consumer which more than 50% of RX8 owners don't know exactly nothing about rotaries each time theres something wrong with the RX8 you receive boogus answers which has nothing to do with the problem, and as well keeps costing your pocket when the answer can be found by someone who eventually chats often in this website. Hell there are even a few of us that take road trips and meet up with other experienced Rotary Mecanics to learn more about this car, but not all of us are connected to this community, each time I see a RX8 owner I tell them to search thru this website and you'll be amazed of things you can learn.

Honestly there's plenty people like myself who thank this website and it's users instead of a DEALER, I am not saying 100% of Mazda Techs are dum, but in the fact if you're a good mecanic then you shouldn't complain about your knowledge nor the people who complain about poor service,, As a certified Tech you are also limited to tell the client the truth and only assure he buys what you say the car needs profiting the DEALER at all times cause not even 10% of Salesperson knows exactly what's wrong in order to defend you and don't say this is FALSE, ****, some people can't handle the truth at some point and blow **** outta proportions.

Now back to reality, yes the Rotary engine dissapeared for rating, economic, safety, and possibly investment reasons most of us think we all know why or how come, that answer relies on many facts, yes FORD bought the Mazda but they eventually ended up as if BURGER KING now buys CHINESSE RESTAURANTS, we all know that Burgers & Fries is way diferent than Chicken Teriyaki or Sushi.

The reputation of the RX7 yes indeed is still alive today in days and we thank each owner and Wise Mecanic for keeping them running and letting the world know that Rotary engines are to be respected.

Now what I don't think it's fair is that Ford assumes they did a great job after negotiating the come back of the Rotary Engine with a dam Renesis, and most of us owners cannot explain the reasons of the numerous failures the production of the Rx8 has cause to the consumers.

Think about it, it's like if MAZDA bought FORD and eventually MAZDA will come out with a new MUSTANG body, with new engine etc.. and when the car starts selling in the market people get all sorts of problems such as the RX8 because they simply put a Ford Focus engine into it. I think that's messed up but it is an example of what they did to the RX reputation.

So when you make comments defending the Mazda dealer, you defend all the Techs that Mazda has, try asking the consumers world wide how Mazda responds to their poor commitment of quality when eventually us as owners have to keep paying so much for simple answers and in many times Bullshit us with things that are not related to resolve the issue, Feel free to start a Thread or your own website to answer everyones problems with the RX8 and you will eventually feel that you're alone.

Rgds,
PRX8

teknics

I do understand bad dealerships, I've seen lots of places run in confusing ways. Unfortunately it seems all dealers do not live to make the customer happy, some target only profit. It sucks that they're out there but its like everything automotive, you tried to avoid the bad reputation places.
I guess im spoiled in seeing the lengths my dealership goes to ensure everyone leaves happy as long as they tell us the truth about the reason its being brought in and are willing to let us make sure everything is fair.

I think you need to understand Ford + Rotary = hatred. Seriously, mazda said "we want to make a rotary vehicle" ford thinks up a four door requirement and all other strict limits on what vehicle they can put a rotary in.

Ford doesn't want a rotary car, Mazda NAO doesnt really like rotaries either. Mazda Japan is the only one on the rotaries side.

The renesis was a closed door project, ford had little to no input on the engine, there is only 1 team of people capable in planning a rotary, they are all mazda engineers.

[/quote]

I do not defend any dealership, dealerships are businesses, no two are identical. I will however defend Mazda Japan and it's amazing story of keeping the rotary engine alive in face of so many people trying to kill it from the outside. With ford now a smaller part of Mazda, they can now move forward with their REAL rotary projects, they no longer need fords ok.

kevin.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Good read, I'm having the same issues currently.

otakurx

I can't wait to see what mazda does with the rotary in the coming time.

TheRedRotor

Hopefully not too late to kick off this thread again? Some amazing info in here and for that I am thankful! So with that let me dive in to whats going on with my car. I've been experiencing almost the exact same stalling symptoms with my car all summer. I just rebuilt the engine and street-ported it as well. The street port was done by RX7 specialties in Alberta and was done on a CNC. Before re-assembly i sent out my injectors to be flow tested and essentially rebuild, came back with an overall clean bill of health except i was told all 6 leak (which is noticeable on cold start but very minor leak) When i had the engine out i took apart the manifold and wire brushed the SSV bore and cleaned the valve itself extensively. the modifications list is as follows:

-CNC streetport
-Ported intake manifold runners
-Rebuild with all Mazda OEM Internals (side seals and corner seals ordered by rotor stampings)
-AEM intake
-BHR ignition coils
-MSD wires
-Racing beat headers
-BHR midpide (W/cat)
-TurboXS catback
-SOHN kit
-Mishimoto low temp thermostat
-Mishimoto Rad
-Mazmart upgraded water pump
-Mazmart 100Psi oil pressure regulator
-Racing beat oil cooler lines
and few more but nothing else I would deem necessary for this diagnostic. Spark plugs are brand new NGK laser iridium and o2 sensors are working fine. o2 sensors are both NTK.

SO, now this is my issue, the car has idle issues and i cant seem to find out what, I had a few vacuum leaks which have all now been sorted out however it still wont hold a proper idle. When cold it idles and was hunting slightly but nothing major . Once the water temps get up to around 95 degrees (Celsius) and I apply throttle then it just dies and doesn't even make an attempt to return to idle speed. I reset the PCM and did the relearn procedure and it helped the cold idle however its still not drive-able. When it does idle it holds 750 RPM pretty well.

I took it on the road and it had a pretty serious hesitation, made it to the end of my street and it stalled every time I put the clutch in. All sounding very similar to the bad SSV symptoms i was reading about earlier in this thread. The SSV actuator is making some noise however I believe its working. The one thing i have not checked yet (which I'm going to after I write this) is the SSV solenoid. Also I have compression tested and the new build has good compression so that's been ruled out. I was initially thinking the factory fuel map just cant keep up with it but now I'm beginning to lean on the SSV as the culprit. I have a spare manifold with a somewhat caked up SSV but nothing I cant clean, was told it was all working before. All that being said, I'm looking for some guidance I've nearly exhausted all my diagnostic capabilities, if I don't find the SSV solenoid to be faulty I'm not sure what else I might be up against. No codes present, currently sitting with the intake system completely removed with the exception of the LIM. Any help / suggestions are much appreciated, thanks everyone!

TheRedRotor

Just tested the SSV solenoid, works fine. Also forgot to mention fuel pressure is 55Psi